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Last Two Nakamates (vol. 5)
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No, it's not a hint. A hint would be a Newspaper appearing that says "Arlong escapes East Blue jail" or something like that.
lol east blue is the weakest sea and Hodi taking out the weak pirates with just his teeth is much stronger than him without his pills and handcuffed.
Arlong has been in prison not a good place to train.
I like how everyone assumes Arlong wouldn't have gotten any stronger since he last saw them… It would be like saying Croc is a weakling because Luffy beat him.
Arlong is the fishman version of Buggy but Buggy is funny so we don't care if he is weak now and Buggy has the big army of Impel down prisoners to make up for it in his crew.
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Kishido, blendingur69, knock it off.
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The Sea Forest and whatever comes from that will probably give us a clear message of who might join. From what's happened so far, I do think we are going to be going into a flashback once the cast gets to the Sea Forest.
My money is that the said flashback will be about Otohime and Jinbei, but we'll see what happens.
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A flashback I imagine would cover Fisher Tiger and the history of the Sun Pirates, and would ALSO include the history of the island, Arlong's schism, and the death of the Queen.
This could be the most amazing flashback ever.
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The death of Fisher Tiger and the assasination of the Otohime are several years apart chronologically. The idea that we're going to get a single flashback for this arc makes little sense. We will probably have one fb which is shared by Shirahoshi and Jinbe about her Mom and the end of the sunny pirates, then Jinbe will have the Fisher Tiger flashback towards the end of the arc.
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Zombie Ace & Sabo
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The death of Fisher Tiger and the assasination of the Otohime are several years apart chronologically. The idea that we're going to get a single flashback for this arc makes little sense.
Except for the fact that Jimbei is heavily tied into both events. There could easily be a split, one for the island history, one for the backstory of whoever joins the crew, but they're pretty heavily interlinked by the racism, Tiger's death, and the splitting of the sun pirates. One thing leads directly into the other. (And young Hancock and the Tenryubiito is in there somewhere too.)
While some of the SH's flashbacks only covered an important day or two of their lives, (Nami, Robin, Zoro) the others covered months, or even years of their lives. Franky, Chopper and Luffy especially showcased massive ammounts of time, Brooke decades in brief, and Skypiea centuries.
This one has been building in the background for for twelve years, and building heavily for the last three, since we saw the breadth of the racism going on at Shabondy and then when Hancock mentioned Fisher Tiger. We now know FI enough to appreciate the major players and the differences in them when they were younger (betcha the princess was an adventurous and fun loving tomboy before her mother died and she got locked in her room and the king was likely a beast power wise.)
As this is one of the biggest, most set up, foreshadowed and crucial to the state of the world flashbacks… it could be pretty insane.
Right now would be the perfect time to stop and take a breather, the villains are beaten, misunderstandings have been cleared, the entire crew is gathered in one place to hear the story, and we can get a greater appreciation for what is ACTUALLY going on, it won't interrupt the current momentum at this point. If we get the 7-10 chapter flashback done now, we can do the next year or two of FI arc uninterrupted. (As great as it was, and despite needing to be WHERE it was, the Skypeia flashback totally killed the momentum of the moment, and understanding of the situation might have helped if it had come a lot sooner.)
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It should also be noted that the Norland flashback, of the Skypeia arc which has had several parallels with FI so far, had a five year jump from shandora to the expedition back with Noland's king. So querying it as if jumping in time is a problem makes little sense.
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The death of Fisher Tiger and the assasination of the Otohime are several years apart chronologically. The idea that we're going to get a single flashback for this arc makes little sense. We will probably have one fb which is shared by Shirahoshi and Jinbe about her Mom and the end of the sunny pirates, then Jinbe will have the Fisher Tiger flashback towards the end of the arc.
Good point, it's not like other flashbacks covered periods over different years like with Franky, Luffy, and Norland. Oh wait.
Keep reaching for that rainbow Jacoobus.
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It's not even a worthy argument. OH NO! THERE CAN'T BE ONE LONG FLASHBACK THE EVENTS ARE TOO MANY YEARS APART!
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There is NO WAY Oda can rope in these universally tied issues of two different dead visionary leaders of one society into a single story!!!
It can't be done!!
There's like years in the way! YEARS.
-Jacoobus, patron saint of bad obscure posters
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is funny so we don't care if he is weak now and Buggy has the big army of Impel down prisoners to make up for it in his crew.
I don't know how you came up with that but I have to disagree. Even when luffy was fighting Buggy he was completely weaksauce.
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I don't know how you came up with that but I have to disagree. Even when luffy was fighting Buggy he was completely weaksauce.
The only reason why the fight with Arlong lasted as long as it did was because of the pools scattered around the park. As soon as Arlong and Luffy took their fight indoors the fight ended rather quickly.
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@RobbyBevard:
Except for the fact that Jimbei is heavily tied into both events. There could easily be a split, one for the island history, one for the backstory of whoever joins the crew, but they're pretty heavily interlinked by the racism, Tiger's death, and the splitting of the sun pirates. One thing leads directly into the other. (And young Hancock and the Tenryubiito is in there somewhere too.)
While some of the SH's flashbacks only covered an important day or two of their lives, (Nami, Robin, Zoro) the others covered months, or even years of their lives. Franky, Chopper and Luffy especially showcased massive ammounts of time, Brooke decades in brief, and Skypiea centuries.
This one has been building in the background for for twelve years, and building heavily for the last three, since we saw the breadth of the racism going on at Shabondy and then when Hancock mentioned Fisher Tiger. We now know FI enough to appreciate the major players and the differences in them when they were younger (betcha the princess was an adventurous and fun loving tomboy before her mother died and she got locked in her room and the king was likely a beast power wise.)
As this is one of the biggest, most set up, foreshadowed and crucial to the state of the world flashbacks… it could be pretty insane.
Right now would be the perfect time to stop and take a breather, the villains are beaten, misunderstandings have been cleared, the entire crew is gathered in one place to hear the story, and we can get a greater appreciation for what is ACTUALLY going on, it won't interrupt the current momentum at this point. If we get the 7-10 chapter flashback done now, we can do the next year or two of FI arc uninterrupted. (As great as it was, and despite needing to be WHERE it was, the Skypeia flashback totally killed the momentum of the moment, and understanding of the situation might have helped if it had come a lot sooner.)
Although there will always be a thematic link with regards to racism and major historical events on FI, to this point there has been no indication of any kind of direct cause and effect link between Fisher Tiger's death and the assasination of Otohime. Jinbe led the sunny pirates for several years before disbanding in response to whatever took place ten years ago.
Hodi and VDD may be bested but they're not beaten. Rather than clearing up misunderstandings Luffy and Zoro have gotten themselves involved in a war. Keep in mind that Zoro, Ussop, and Brook are NOT headed towards the Sea Forest, at least not yet. Where they end up will likely depend on where Neptune and Fukaboshi regroup. The current conflict is all about the clash of ideals between Arlong and Otohime, which doesn't really relate directly to Fisher Tiger.
More to the point, even when they span years Oda's flashbacks are always chronological. This would mean starting with the story of Fisher Tiger and eventually moving on to the queen's assasination and Jinbe disbanding the crew. Considering the ongoing conflict at FI and the fact that it doesn't relate directly to Fisher Tiger, I don't see how it makes any sense to start there. They will be meeting around Otohime's grave afterall.
Fisher Tiger's life, from the creation of the sunny pirates to his death, deserves an in depth look and is easily a 7-10 chapter flashback on its own. While it's true that there have been flashbacks that span years there has never been one with so much meat on each side of the before and after, with so little linking them together. Giving away too much backround information all at once can take away from the suspense of the story and disrupt flow.
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Fisher Tiger's life, from the creation of the sunny pirates to his death, deserves an in depth look and is easily a 7-10 chapter flashback on its own. While it's true that there have been flashbacks that span years there has never been one with so much meat on each side of the before and after, with so little linking them together. Giving away too much backround information all at once can take away from the suspense of the story and disrupt flow.
March 29th, 2011 05:27 PMYes, fisher tiger's life could be a 10 chapter flashback but the queens part of the flashback could just be 2 chapters. And I have a strong feeling they do connect. But either way, rather they split the two flashbacks or they do a continous one. Jimbei is dead in the middle of both of them.
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Although there will always be a thematic link with regards to racism and major historical events on FI, to this point there has been no indication of any kind of direct cause and effect link between Fisher Tiger's death and the assasination of Otohime. Jinbe led the sunny pirates for several years before disbanding in response to whatever took place ten years ago.
Today on Medical Mysteries, the tragic true story of the literarily deficient " People who cannot read into subtext to save their lives".
"I couldn't see it! Nothing! All the obvious connections were invisible to me!"
Hodi and VDD may be bested but they're not beaten. Rather than clearing up misunderstandings Luffy and Zoro have gotten themselves involved in a war. Keep in mind that Zoro, Ussop, and Brook are NOT headed towards the Sea Forest, at least not yet. Where they end up will likely depend on where Neptune and Fukaboshi regroup. The current conflict is all about the clash of ideals between Arlong and Otohime, which doesn't really relate directly to Fisher Tiger.
How is it even possible that you can't see that Fisher Tiger's story will be directly relevant to whatever occured with the Queen?? Hell his connection to Arlong isn't even fucking theoretical!!!
More to the point, even when they span years Oda's flashbacks are always chronological. This would mean starting with the story of Fisher Tiger and eventually moving on to the queen's assasination and Jinbe disbanding the crew. Considering the ongoing conflict at FI and the fact that it doesn't relate directly to Fisher Tiger,
Of course it relates to Fisher Tiger. This is like saying a flashback about the Egyptian Revolution wouldn't start with Nasser just because the revolution was focused on Mubarak.
I don't see how it makes any sense to start there. They will be meeting around Otohime's grave afterall.
With Fisher Tiger's heir while running away from dealing with the shards of Fisher Tiger's ideology and other heirs.
Also look who it is whose most interested in talking with Jimbei, it's fucking NAMI. What she wants to know is the whole story of the past of racism on this island, the people who dealt with it and why it eventually lead to people like Arlong and Hodi.
And here's the thing you should already have figured out if you were half as smart as you seem to think of yourself as.
That the Queen died over those exact same issues, and her "ideals" Jimbei spoke of were related to them somehow as well.
That should be the most obvious thing in the world.
But no, maybe she died because she didn't handle a coral miner's strike well or whatever the hell you think.
Fisher Tiger's life, from the creation of the sunny pirates to his death, deserves an in depth look and is easily a 7-10 chapter flashback on its own. While it's true that there have been flashbacks that span years there has never been one with so much meat on each side of the before and after, with so little linking them together. Giving away too much backround information all at once can take away from the suspense of the story and disrupt flow.
Or highly increase our investment and passion for the outcome of this huge conflict.
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@JERK:
Today on Medical Mysteries, the tragic true story of the literarily deficient " People who cannot read into subtext to save their lives".
"I couldn't see it! Nothing! All the obvious connections were invisible to me!"
Can I put that in my signature? I probably won't do it now, but I'm making a note of it.
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@JERK:
How is it even possible that you can't see that Fisher Tiger's story will be directly relevant to whatever occured with the Queen?? Hell his connection to Arlong isn't even fucking theoretical!!!
I don't see this supposedly strong connection between Arlong and Fisher Tiger. Arlong was clearly inspired by some of Tiger's more aggressive actions. However, he ignored the basic principles of a freedom fighter and spawned an ideology rooted in exploiting the weak. This gives me the impression that Arlong never got too close to his idol. Arlong and co were pratically still kids when Fisher Tiger died. I think it's more than likely they spent the majority of their time in the crew under Jinbe rather than Fisher Tiger himself.
Taking Cariboo and all the buildup to this arc regarding slavery into account, I think it's a pretty safe bet that phase two will involve freeing captured merfolk. Of course this can't take place until after the current fray with the NFP sorts itself out. The conflict to this point is just a pathetic infight about whether or not to treat all humans as enemies. Ultimately it's only just leading into the larger issues of freedom and slavery. Remember that none of the crew are even aware of the Cariboo situation yet. Once they realize how they brought him in and it led to all the kidnappings I think the atmosphere will become far more conducive to Jinbe reminicing about Fisher Tiger freeing slaves and changing brands of servitude into those of freedom.
@JERK:
That the Queen died over those exact same issues, and her "ideals" Jimbei spoke of were related to them somehow as well.
We still have no idea who she was killed by or exactly why. All we know is that she was killed and that she promoted a pacifist philosophy of living in harmony with humans.
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I don't see this supposedly strong connection between Arlong and Fisher Tiger.
Arlong is the leader of a splinter group of Tiger's crew.
Duh.
Arlong was clearly inspired by some of Tiger's more aggressive actions. However, he ignored the basic principles of a freedom fighter and spawned an ideology rooted in exploiting the weak.
Congratulations. This is a connection rife with thematic meaning and comparative analysis that would be excellently presented through a flashback actually exploring Tiger's exact character.
This gives me the impression that Arlong never got too close to his idol.
It really doesn't fucking matter whether Arlong was his cabin boy, or only grew up watching him from afar.
The influence would be immeasurable regardless.
It's like you have no conception of Tiger's stature among Fishmen.Arlong and co were pratically still kids when Fisher Tiger died.
You're damn right they most likely were. All the more reason that Tiger would be huge in their life. Imagine being a black kid growing up watching MLK do his thing.
I think it's more than likely they spent the majority of their time in the crew under Jinbe rather than Fisher Tiger himself.
And seeing what Tiger's rule was like is hella important to seeing what Jimbei's was like.
Taking Cariboo and all the buildup to this arc regarding slavery into account, I think it's a pretty safe bet that phase two will involve freeing captured merfolk.
lolllllll, do you really think that???
Of course this can't take place until after the current fray with the NFP sorts itself out. The conflict to this point is just a pathetic infight about whether or not to treat all humans as enemies.
"Interracial conflict? Oh please…. Generic rescue plot for me thank you very much.:wassat:"
Ultimately it's only just leading into the larger issues of freedom and slavery.
…..No.
No it isn't.
What the fuck does this have to do with slavery.
Slavery is a detail of the racial conflict.
The racial conflict is really really reeeeaaaally obviously the theme Oda's exploring.Exactly how many panels of Strawhat's saying the word "discrimination…" with ponderous looks on them do you fucking need.
Remember that none of the crew are even aware of the Cariboo situation yet.
I love that you literally think the little sub-plot with Caribou (that Oda is most likely setting up entirely to use as a detail in the actually important interesting plot of the coup and racial conflict) is actually more important and worthy of time.
Once they realize how they brought him in and it led to all the kidnappings I think the atmosphere will become far more conducive to Jinbe reminicing about Fisher Tiger freeing slaves and changing brands of servitude into those of freedom.
This will not whatsoever happened. You are theme and subtext illiterate.
We still have no idea who she was killed by or exactly why. All we know is that she was killed and that she promoted a pacifist philosophy of living in harmony with humans.
And I repeat…
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@JERK:
Arlong is the leader of a splinter group of Tiger's crew.
A splinter group that was formed when Jinbe disbanded the sunny pirates due to circumstances not directly related to Fisher Tiger.
@JERK:
I love that you literally think the little sub-plot with Caribou (that Oda is most likely setting up entirely to use as a detail in the actually important interesting plot of the coup and racial conflict) is actually more important and worthy of time.
Don't misunderstand me, Cariboo is not the issue here. The issue is where his mermaids end up. Between that and Hodi's ES supplier we will find the actual underbelly of FI. This will lead into whatever the ultimate conflict involves. I'm not thinking of a rescue arc, rescuing folks would become incidental to whatever kind of fight Luffy finds himself in.
@JERK:
This will not whatsoever happened. You are theme and subtext illiterate.
Lucky for us I think we can both agree the flashback is about to start. Soon we'll know which one of us is reading subtext and which one is blowing smoke.
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jacoobus jacoobus, jacoobus… just stop ok, i realize its hard for some people to admit that they are wrong but you bring it to a whole new level.. i just had to make an account to point this out it bugs me so much.
the new nakama i want most of all is gin. gin or wiper.
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A splinter group that was formed when Jinbe disbanded the sunny pirates due to circumstances not directly related to Fisher Tiger.
God, I don't know how much simpler I can make this.
You're acting like Fisher Tiger was just this prior link in a chain of command. Rather then being the founder, the influence on all that followed if only in theory, and above all the patron saint of sorts for his entire race.
The fact that Jimbei came chronologically between Arlong and Fisher Tiger doesn't change fuck all.
It's like saying Lenin has no connection to Karl Marx because "KARL MARX WAS JUST SOME GERMAN WRITER DUDE A FEW DECADES BEFORE LENIN LEAD AN UNRELATED REVOLUTION".
Don't misunderstand me, Cariboo is not the issue here. The issue is where his mermaids end up. Between that and Hodi's ES supplier we will find the actual underbelly of FI. This will lead into whatever the ultimate conflict involves. I'm not thinking of a rescue arc, rescuing folks would become incidental to whatever kind of fight Luffy finds himself in.
You're the only one who gives this much of a shit about that small ass sub-plot. We already know what the ultimate conflict involves, it's going to involve the hearts and minds of future Fishmen/Merfolk.
It's clear as day.Lucky for us I think we can both agree the flashback is about to start. Soon we'll know which one of us is reading subtext and which one is blowing smoke.
I can't believe you're actually fucking debating over whether racial conflict is the theme of this arc. How can you bizarrely obsess over one manifestation of the racial conflict, but be completely oblivious as to what greater purpose is coursing through it's veins??
The Slavery serves the Racial theme.
The racial theme does not serve the slavery.You're petting a dog's tail and telling it "good boy".
Pet the head you freak. -
After reading the last chapter, Jinbe seems pretty likely, but I won't make all definite calls until the flashback.
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Ohh Jinbei personality isn't that serious all the time and he has face faults… As predicted by some.
1:0 for Urouge, brennen and Co
Now only one thing is standing in the way... Do he still has a crew like Hodi and Co said?
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@JERK:
God, I don't know how much simpler I can make this.
You're acting like Fisher Tiger was just this prior link in a chain of command. Rather then being the founder, the influence on all that followed if only in theory, and above all the patron saint of sorts for his entire race.
The fact that Jimbei came chronologically between Arlong and Fisher Tiger doesn't change fuck all.
It's like saying Lenin has no connection to Karl Marx because "KARL MARX WAS JUST SOME GERMAN WRITER DUDE A FEW DECADES BEFORE LENIN LEAD AN UNRELATED REVOLUTION".
It's not that I don't recognize the significance of Fisher Tiger, but rather that I consider Arlong's ideology nothing but a bastardization of what he stood for. An ideology that was formed after his death and based on hate rather than freedom. I don't see Jinbe being nearly as eager to bring those two up in the same sentence as Hammond was.
Not to mention the fact that the current situation isn't so leisurely that he can take his time explaining Fisher Tiger's life and its influence on merfolk and Arlong in particular. He is going to jump straight into the events of a decade ago because whatever happened then is a direct cause for what's currently taking place on the Isle. Fisher Tiger obviously has significance too, but it's not as specific to what's currently taking place between the NFP and royal family.
@JERK:
You're the only one who gives this much of a shit about that small ass sub-plot. We already know what the ultimate conflict involves, it's going to involve the hearts and minds of future Fishmen/Merfolk.
It's clear as day.I'm saying that what you're calling a small ass sub-plot will eventually be tied into the fight for the hearts and minds of merfolk you're talking about. With the current conflict as it is, any help the SHP give against the NFP directly could end up making the situation worse. The real fight won't happen until we know who's been instigating everything so far.
@JERK:
I can't believe you're actually fucking debating over whether racial conflict is the theme of this arc. How can you bizarrely obsess over one manifestation of the racial conflict, but be completely oblivious as to what greater purpose is coursing through it's veins??
The Slavery serves the Racial theme.
The racial theme does not serve the slavery.You're petting a dog's tail and telling it "good boy".
Pet the head you freak.I'm not debating whether racial conflict is the theme. The question here is about Luffy getting involved in an internal dispute between the NFP and the royal family, or finding and taking down whoever set them at eachother's throats. Personally I think the latter option works better for winning hearts and minds, but we'll see. The newest chapter certainly seems to suggest that the flashback will start eleven years ago, after Fisher Tiger's death… maybe you think Jinbe is going to tell his story after they talk about ten years ago?
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Uh, I'm pretty sure there is nobody who manipulated the NFP and royal family against each other in the vein of crocodile in Alabasta. Its a much more deeply rooted matter of ideals and such centered around racial conflict. Is someone taking advantage of the feud? Possibly. Is someone else behind the scenes causing other problems in FI that we don't know about yet? I find this quite likely. Luffy will probably win them over by doing something that helps all of FI. And in explaining the events of 11 years ago, did it ever occur to you it'll start earlier to help set the tone and background for the situation?
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I gotta admit, Jinbei's chance increased after this chapter.
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To all the people saying Jinbe "Won't have any gags, too boring"
Well I would insert a witty photo but really don't feel like it.
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Uh, I'm pretty sure there is nobody who manipulated the NFP and royal family against each other in the vein of crocodile in Alabasta. Its a much more deeply rooted matter of ideals and such centered around racial conflict. Is someone taking advantage of the feud? Possibly. Is someone else behind the scenes causing other problems in FI that we don't know about yet? I find this quite likely. Luffy will probably win them over by doing something that helps all of FI. And in explaining the events of 11 years ago, did it ever occur to you it'll start earlier to help set the tone and background for the situation?
I'm not trying to say that this is a manufactured conflict a la Alabasta, simply that there is almost certianly someone in the backround who is exacerbating the situation in order to profit from the fallout.
As far as starting the fb earlier to set tone and backround, I'm sure it will start well before Otohime is assasinated or WB arrives. Of course you can't just jump right into the middle of a story, but I don't think we will be starting five years before hand. We'll find out soon enough.
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It's not that I don't recognize the significance of Fisher Tiger, but rather that I consider Arlong's ideology nothing but a bastardization of what he stood for.
AND. THAT. IS. A. BIG. CONNECTION.
An ideology that was formed after his death and based on hate rather than freedom.
What the fuck is this "freedom" you keep bringing up?
And do you already forget? Do you forget that Fisher Tiger hated humans?
I don't see Jinbe being nearly as eager to bring those two up in the same sentence as Hammond was.
…..what?? What the hell logic is that? Of course he'd bring them up to illustrate what the problem is.. Are you saying he would just not tell them important things because of some stupid "i dont wanna associate em" shit.
Not to mention the fact that the current situation isn't so leisurely that he can take his time explaining Fisher Tiger's life and its influence on merfolk and Arlong in particular.
….what??
Are you...
You aren't.
There's no way you're actually saying Oda wont make a flashback really big because a character can't spend a lot of time talking. You aren't fucking serious.
He is going to jump straight into the events of a decade ago because whatever happened then is a direct cause for what's currently taking place on the Isle.
AND SO IS FISHER TIGER.
Look at what the chapter fucking ended on for fucks sake! The emblem of the Pirates of the Sun! How much more clear can Oda make it?At this point you really must be going only on pride, because it's obviously not that you have any real reason to think you're right.
I'm saying that what you're calling a small ass sub-plot will eventually be tied into the fight for the hearts and minds of merfolk you're talking about.
And it will remain a small ass subplot, a detail possibly enraging the island against humans again or something like that.
It won't launch some boring slave rescue story that we just had at Shabondy.With the current conflict as it is, any help the SHP give against the NFP directly could end up making the situation worse. The real fight won't happen until we know who's been instigating everything so far.
Human fucking history.
I'm not debating whether racial conflict is the theme. The question here is about Luffy getting involved in an internal dispute between the NFP and the royal family,
It's not internal! Why do you think the NFP want to take over! They don't just want power, they have ideals they want to empower!
or finding and taking down whoever set them at eachother's throats.
…...
My fucking god...
The thing that has them against eachother is their fundamental disagreement about dealing with the racism against the historical ingrained above water peoples.Personally I think the latter option works better for winning hearts and minds, but we'll see. The newest chapter certainly seems to suggest that the flashback will start eleven years ago, after Fisher Tiger's death… maybe you think Jinbe is going to tell his story after they talk about ten years ago?
It's possible they would start then, but expect in-flashback flashbacks at the least. It's been done.
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Good to see the lull after the Hancock and Perona arguments died hasn't dampered the next nakama rage boner.
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I get the feeling that Jimbe will have a comeback as potential nakama after this chapter, There was humor, there will be flashbacks. Let the Nakama-wars continue!
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well, i revived this thread, about jimbei being a potential sh because of the timeskip and the monster trio all possibly being stronger then him. People pre time skip argued that jimbei was 2 strong, I dont believe thats the case anymore.
Now the argument that jimbei is 2 serious to be a sh is pretty much dead thanks to this chapter. We previously only seen jimbei in a serious situation. Hell luffy was just as serious during the war.
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Anyone using that argument was pretty stupid, I don't see this is a game changer.
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Jinbei is less or as serious as Robin.
Obviously less, because Robin has never done a face fault (much to my dismay)
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