A Study of One Piece Animation

Kuminator

Well, actually they're both sort of the same thing really, you can't have good animation if you don't have good art & if you don't have good animation it will take away from the art. It's sort of an equal balance which Tate frequentlyupsets with his awful drawings.

Also I would just like to point out that, and this goes for both Animation & Art, that I cannot believe that a PROFESSIONAL ANIMATOR on the PAYROLL of TOEI ANIMATION actually sat down & drew this (Oh & just to confrim, this WAS a motion sequence) :

To me, that's not worth the paper it's drawn on.

Also another wonderful aspect of his 'animation' is that characters suddenly seem to have hundreds of arms flying out of no-where.

And people complain about One Piece bieng un-realistic, I now think I know why - Forget the flippin' Walkin' Walkin' Skeletons, and Human/Reindeers, it's because they have to tune in & put up with this trash every couple of episodes !

Crossword

@Kuminator:

Well, actually they're both sort of the same thing really, you can't have good animation if you don't have good art & if you don't have good animation it will take away from the art. It's sort of an equal balance which Tate frequentlyupsets with his awful drawings.

Also I would just like to point out that, and this goes for both Animation & Art, that I cannot believe that a PROFESSIONAL ANIMATOR on the PAYROLL of TOEI ANIMATION actually sat down & drew this (Oh & just to confrim, this WAS a motion sequence) :

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww83/Kuminate/vlcsnap-152883.png

To me, that's not worth the paper it's drawn on.

Also another wonderful aspect of his 'animation' is that characters suddenly seem to have hundreds of arms flying out of no-where.

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww83/Kuminate/vlcsnap-153177.png

And people complain about One Piece bieng un-realistic, I now think I know why - Forget the flippin' Walkin' Walkin' Skeletons, and Human/Reindeers, it's because they have to tune in & put up with this trash every couple of episodes !

Right, I have have no idea where this post will end up, but 1.) That entire sequence with Luffy and Sanji experienced an art shift and went back to normal immediately afterwards. It was deliberate and a creative stylization.

2.) Luffy ALWAYS seems to grow extra limbs from nowhere whenever he unleashes a flurry of blows, in both the anime and manga. Now you're just being silly. Might as well take it up with Oda, Araki, Toriyama, and every other manga artist and videogame designer in existence that gives characters a rapid-fire fisticuff move.

XMURADX

@Kuminator:

Well, actually they're both sort of the same thing really, you can't have good animation if you don't have good art & if you don't have good animation it will take away from the art. It's sort of an equal balance which Tate frequentlyupsets with his awful drawings.

Also I would just like to point out that, and this goes for both Animation & Art, that I cannot believe that a PROFESSIONAL ANIMATOR on the PAYROLL of TOEI ANIMATION actually sat down & drew this (Oh & just to confrim, this WAS a motion sequence) :

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww83/Kuminate/vlcsnap-152883.png

To me, that's not worth the paper it's drawn on.

Also another wonderful aspect of his 'animation' is that characters suddenly seem to have hundreds of arms flying out of no-where.

http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/ww83/Kuminate/vlcsnap-153177.png

And people complain about One Piece bieng un-realistic, I now think I know why - Forget the flippin' Walkin' Walkin' Skeletons, and Human/Reindeers, it's because they have to tune in & put up with this trash every couple of episodes !

The first pic is animated by Hisashi Mori, not Naoki Tate. And FYI, this guy is a great animator, and is considered from the top animators, were he only animated few minutes of Movie 9. Luffy grabbing Sanji's leg was beautifully done and put me in awe.

I'll answer the 2nd pic with a question…Why is Luffy calling it Gattling Gun?

One Piece have always been unrealistic...I don't understand where the realism suddenly comes from.
BTW, this trash that comes every couple of episodes, is what keeps One Piece anime worth watching.

Anyway, I suggest reading a little bit more about animation. I even thought Tate' style was bad at first (Although I didn't call him Trash) when I started watching One Piece. But that's when I had no idea about animation.

Kuminator

Well, yes - perhaps I have been a little too critical in saying things like trash - I was just a little annoyed that basically most of the fanbase hated his style & then suddenly everyone apparently loves it … A well, sorry To any you guys who do like his style, as I insulted him Murad, Corssword - My Bad.

Although I still stand by my point that I don't like his style of artwork, he animates Backgrounds & buildings beautifully, as evidenced in Movie 6, but doesn't put enough into the Characters & the show is about Pirates on a quest for their dreams, bot Beautifully animated Buildings on a quest for their dreams. But, either way, that is my view & it's unlikely that anyone of you guys will genuinely change the way I see, it but that's just the waay it is ...

Thanks anyway for all your opinions on this (Murad, Crossword, Shinpanman - Etc, ...)

Also Murad - Would you be able to explain the term Animation fully to me so that I don't get confused between Animation Fluidity & Animation Art again, because you know loads about it - You & Crossbones always talk about the Animation over at Kaizoku Forums - Thanks !

Crossword

Tate wasn't involved with Movie 6 at all. The animation directors were, according to ANN, Chikashi Kubota, Sushio, and Takaaki Yamashita. I know Kubota worked on the movie The Girl Who Leaped Through Time, if you've ever heard of it. It even used a similar style.

Well, my knowledge on the actual animation process isn't as extensive as others, I'm sure, but how I believe it works is that the animation director draws out the beginning and end of a frame, and then they're cleaned up and handed off to a team of animators who animate the transitions and such. So say Luffy is walking. The director draws out the beginning, middle, and end of the sequence, then it gets cleaned up, tested, and tweaked, and then the grunts fill in the rest. This will probably explain it more clearly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_animation#Animation

So if production is being rushed or there's not enough money to go around, that's usually when the art starts to look sloppy and the animation subject to cost-saving measures like panning and zooming, since it's presumbaly far easier to just draw a still image and just have to animate the character's mouth and eyes or such. And of course, the director's own artistic ability comes into play here too.

I hope that helped, and I didn't mess anything up too badly.

Kuminator

Also, there is the fact that Inoue does actually add more realism, in that,

If Nami & Robin's boobs were actually I Cups,
then in the Anime, they should be as big as Inoue makes them

Kuminator

I really always thought people hated Movie 6 & Movie 9 & loads did, but as soon as Movie 9 came out all you heard was - "Aw, Movie 6 – That's my favourite !!!"

Seriously, how can so many people so quickly go from hating something to loving it ?

I Really hate Naoki Tate's Animation - It's crap - It looks like something
a toddler scribbled, It honestly does - It looks like paper !!

XMURADX

@Kuminator:

I really always thought people hated Movie 6 & Movie 9 & loads did, but as soon as Movie 9 came out all you heard was - "Aw, Movie 6 – That's my favourite !!!"

Seriously, how can so many people so quickly go from hating something to loving it ?

I Really hate Naoki Tate's Animation - It's crap - It looks like something
a toddler scribbled, It honestly does - It looks like paper !!

No offense…But saying stuff like this means you have no idea what animation means.

goty

Yeah, maybe he's confusing art and animation. Art style is a subjective matter, but animation? It can't get much better than Tate's.

edit: heh, what's happening? the posts are getting randomly out of order, Darkstorm and Crossword posted right after me and Murad..

Psycho_Kenshiro

Inoue is definitely the best.

Anyone know who did episode 315? That's the one featured in my sig. Not as detailed as Inoue by any means, but I still like the way they draw Nami quite a bit also.

Also, where do you find the credits info like that per episode in general?

XMURADX

@Psycho_Kenshin:

Inoue is definitely the best.

Anyone know who did episode 315? That's the one featured in my sig. Not as detailed as Inoue by any means, but I still like the way they draw Nami quite a bit also.

Also, where do you find the credits info like that per episode in general?

315 - Masahiro Shimanuki (He is a decent supervisor, I find his art better than Takagi and Yokoyama)

@Kuminator…Crossword have explained it nicely. He always does better explanation than me.
BTW, Despite reading about animation, it's also something you should see by your eyes and allow your eyes to get accustomed to it. Within few months, I'm sure you will start to appreciate it.

Watch this

, and see how the action scenes are performed, Then I suggest watching some of the crappy episodes and compare….Normal episodes will do too.

Psycho_Kenshiro

Thanks for the info, I dig Masahiro Shimanuki's stuff.

I'm also liking Naoki Tate's style too, I notice.

Crossword

@Psycho_Kenshin:

Also, where do you find the credits info like that per episode in general?

When the episode titles and summaries are released, the info on who's the director, art director, etc. is included. I don't have the time to pull up the characters, but the part in the new opening where Luffy is wall jumping in Impel Down is where the credits list the animation director in the episode itself.

Hm, I also notice that Hisada was credited as character designer in 395 along with Koizumi.

Psycho_Kenshiro

I always wonder why fansubbers typically don't translate the credits in the opening credits. Just the song lyrics.

Also, when you say the episode title and summeries released with director info, is that stuff available in English anywhere?

Thanks.

Crossword

I've seen a few subs that translate the credits. The subs I watched for the first season of Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni did, the subs I'm watching right now for Gundam 00 do. It's just really not that necessary, and most viewers probably don't care.

As for the info, a series I've watched in the past posted the summaries and info on the show's website, in Japanese, of course. While One Piece does have that, they don't seem to update until after the episode airs. I suppose we get the info from either magazines or 2ch. I don't know where exctly, though.

goty

Well, there's Newtype:
http://anime.webnt.jp/program/index.php?pg_page=tv_detail&detail=2333

richyy789

somtimes when the characters where shown from the side they had very pointy noses
who did that o_o
n when sanji stepped infront of zoro to save him from kuma in thriller bark he looked so…weird

Crossword

That episode was by Eisaku Inoue.

m00n

@Crossword:

I've seen a few subs that translate the credits. The subs I watched for the first season of Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni did, the subs I'm watching right now for Gundam 00 do. It's just really not that necessary, and most viewers probably don't care.

You've watched it by BSS Subs didn't you? They did that for Michiko to Hatchin too. I like it. Most fansub groups put their own credits in there. As if they were more important / had done more work than the animation staff. Than again you're right, no one seems to care…

fdein

@m00n:

You've watched it by BSS Subs didn't you? They did that for Michiko to Hatchin too. I like it. Most fansub groups put their own credits in there. As if they were more important / had done more work than the animation staff. Than again you're right, no one seems to care…

you'd probably do the same,
but anyways it should probably take up a lot of space to write a translation for each credit

richyy789

o_o its fdein
well they should put their name in the credits.
if it wasn't for them i wouldn't understand anything

Kranimal

Wow… I did not know about this!

This explains a lot... Thanks for the information, really interesting.
Now im off to see if i can spot the differences in the different episodes

Love Kram :wub:

m00n

@richyy789:

o_o its fdein
well they should put their name in the credits.
if it wasn't for them i wouldn't understand anything

Fanssubs work on an episode for a day. Toei weeks and months fulltime. Thats why I think Toei should get the credits.
@fdein:

you'd probably do the same,

No I'd put it picture between the advetisment seperators ;)

Psycho_Kenshiro

I'm really enjoying Masayuki Fujita's stuff (episodes 330, 339, 358, 365, 372).

I really dig that character design, especially the character's facial expressions.

And of course, Inoue is the best. 377 looked amazing.

I also really liked the look of 378, not sure who the animation was by on that one though. Less detailed, but very lively and it had a cute feel to it, which is nice after all the chaos.

Crossword

378 would be our pal Tate. See, he delivers even when there aren't any action scenes to animate.

With Fujita, I've noticed that he seems to ping-pong between two separate styles. The first is the rounded, not-so-great one we're used to, and the second is this one where their noses are really defined and their hair is all layered and detailed. Odd really. You can see this going on with my cap of his Sanji and with Luffy in the 398 preview.

Anyway, I've finally done caps for Masayuki Takagi. His style doesn't stand out all that much to me. It's like if Ide and Hisada merged together with Hisada being the dominent force. He did have some funky facial expressions after the Duval reveal though. This episode really wasn't the best to take caps from, but work with you've got, as they say.

Takagi:

!

!

!
!

Oh yeah, in regards to the person behind the new opening, I think I've pegged it down. It's not Ide, not Nakatani, and not someone new. With the possible exception of the Impel Down fight, it's a dead-ringer for Masahiro Shimanuki, the guy who's been pigeonholed for years and has only recently been doing solo episodes.

WJMill

@m00n:

Fanssubs work on an episode for a day. Toei weeks and months fulltime. Thats why I think Toei should get the credits.

Are you serious? Fansubbers work for way more than just a day on a single episode depending on their staff. You obviously have never worked on one or know how the process goes. Some people like Kubus work on it themselves for 7-8 hours straight to get them out as soon as possible. If that were me doing it, hell yes I'd want my name on there somewhere and it's like a watermark so people can't take credit for all the work they've done. I don't mind fansubbers putting their names in the credits, in fact I think they have a right to as they did all the work for people who don't speak Japanese fluently to understand the anime.

Toei already gets credit in the credits because it's their credit sequence and their animation that goes into it. Most of the fanbase already knows Toei does the work so there's no need to plaster the Toei logo all over everything to get the point across.

/end rant.

coughs Yeah. Anyway back on topic. ;D I really hate it when they draw Nami/Robin with gigantic boobs. I think Nami looked better with B cups than EEs. I know it's an anime and I should expect that kind of treatment but she was smaller once and then exploded. D: Was this an animator's choice or the choice of the whole creative team? I don't know if she exploded like that in the manga as I've only read about from the end of Thriller Bark on.
Here's a Nami example:

! From Episode 3:

! VS. Episode 497 or so I forget what one I took this from:
I realize throughout the story they're getting older and she's liable to grow a bit but that much? :P

Kuminator

Can You say Hana Hana Implants ?

TLC

@WJMill:

Are you serious? Fansubbers work for way more than just a day on a single episode depending on their staff. You obviously have never worked on one or know how the process goes. Some people like Kubus work on it themselves for 7-8 hours straight to get them out as soon as possible. If that were me doing it, hell yes I'd want my name on there somewhere and it's like a watermark so people can't take credit for all the work they've done. I don't mind fansubbers putting their names in the credits, in fact I think they have a right to as they did all the work for people who don't speak Japanese fluently to understand the anime.

Toei already gets credit in the credits because it's their credit sequence and their animation that goes into it. Most of the fanbase already knows Toei does the work so there's no need to plaster the Toei logo all over everything to get the point across.

/end rant.

coughs Yeah. Anyway back on topic. ;D I really hate it when they draw Nami/Robin with gigantic boobs. I think Nami looked better with B cups than EEs. I know it's an anime and I should expect that kind of treatment but she was smaller once and then exploded. D: Was this an animator's choice or the choice of the whole creative team? I don't know if she exploded like that in the manga as I've only read about from the end of Thriller Bark on.
Here's a Nami example:

! From Episode 3:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/DriaArt/snapshot20090423101121.jpg
! VS. Episode 497 or so I forget what one I took this from:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v705/DriaArt/snapshot20090420142833.jpg I realize throughout the story they're getting older and she's liable to grow a bit but that much? :P

They got bigger in the manga too:P

It's no big deal anyway. Women's breasts grow larger in time. It's a natural process brought about by booze and fun;)

XMURADX

For those who say Naoki Tate have bad art, I did a comparison of his art with the manga:

!

There will be more soon.

Edit: Here is something interesting:

!

1. Noboru Koizumi
2. Kazuyuki Ikai
3. Masayuki Fujita
4. Kazuya Hisada
5. Katsumi Ishizuka
6. Masayuki Takagi
7. Eisaku Inoue
8. Takeo Ide
9. Kenji Yokoyama
10. Naoki Tate
11. Sushio
12. Takaaki Yamashita
13. Chikashi Kubota

skeletonbrook

are the last 3 from the anime they look terible

Crimson Rogue

@skeletonbrook:

are the last 3 from the anime they look terible

Those are from Movie 6.

Kuminator

@skeletonbrook:

are the last 3 from the anime they look terible

You don't like Movie 6/9 Animation Too ?
Loads of people like it now, We're like a dying breed !

skeletonbrook

it looks so amuture

Sanigo

Amateurs are not that daring, or that good either.

shinpanman

@skeletonbrook:

are the last 3 from the anime they look terible

Wh-what? Are you serious? You looked through all of those rows, some with the most stiff-looking disproportionate art I've seen in One Piece, and the LAST 3 are the ones you see as being terrible??!! Are you missing the extreme fail that is Ishizuka and Fujita?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! I'm really gonna have to get over this whole subjectivity of art thing…

Joe

the HQ animation does it justice.

goty

@shinpanman:

Are you missing the extreme fail that is Ishizuka and Fujita?!

Ishizuka…fail?? Lol.
Those pics are distorted and doesn't make his art any justice.

shinpanman

Honestly, I don't find those examples very convincing either.

Crossword

I always found the way Ishizuka angled people to be weird. It looked like he just drew a V and crammed in their eyes, nose and stuff in. Looked odd, to say the least. Other than that, his style was basically Koizumi's with sharper angles.

Crimson Rogue

@skeletonbrook:

it looks so amuture

Watch some scenes from the movie. The individual screens from Movie 6 will usually look bad, yes, but when they're put together it actually looks rather good.

goty

@shinpanman:

Honestly, I don't find those examples very convincing either.

Eh, to each one his own i guess. I mean, i love movie 6 art style, but i'd take Ishizuka's over it anyday.

shinpanman

Yeah, an opinion is an opinion I guess. Like Crossword was saying though, I can't help but feel that Ishizuka moves the facial features of the characters onto a completely separate plane from their face, leading to some pretty awkward angles. Not to mention the fact that he uses lines so thin that it often gives his characters this neanderthal appearance of having no eyebrows. His actual key animation motions look great though so I find him pretty tolerable overall.

XMURADX

I agree with goty, Ishizuka's art is awesome, I really love the weird angles he make, and the facial expressions are top notch.

Somehow everyone tends to looks cool in his art, even sometimes the ugly characters drawn by Oda.

TLC

Great animation does not compensate for awful art.

XMURADX

@Thousand:

Great animation does not compensate for awful art.

There is no good animation with awful art. If the supervisor can pull great animation then his art must be good.

Art is directly proportional to Animation.

fedcom

@XMURADX:

There is no good animation with awful art. If the supervisor can pull great animation then his art must be good.

Art is directly proportional to Animation.

Movie 6 had great animation, but IMO the art was terrible

XMURADX

@fedcom:

Movie 6 had great animation, but IMO the art was terrible

You think the art was terrible. It was awesome, IMO.

skeletonbrook

i havent seen the movie but i was just giving my opinions on them pics

TLC

@XMURADX:

You think the art was terrible. It was awesome, IMO.

You need your eyes checked. The art IS terrible. It is too obvious to be in the realm of opinion. They look like smudgy drawings drawn by a 6 year old.

I mean this is real art

This is movie 6 art

There is an undeniably huge difference. I know you liked the movie but don't put it on such a high pedestal and give it credit for things it doesn't deserve.

Crossword

All right people, I have sat through shows that were atrociously animated and/or lazily animated. I've sat through the entirety of Rockman.EXE Stream, Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni. I've seen the stiff, the lazy, the cost cutting, the shortcuts, and I can assure you, that the Movie 6 art style is not bad. The entire purpose of it is its fluidity. It's not something that's meant to be viewed as a static image, it's something meant to be experienced with the movement. The art and the animation complement each other to form a unique style that really can't be accomplished otherwise. In fact, it probably takes far more effort to pull off considering that the number of frames to be drawn is probably mind blowing.

You want to see genuinely bad art? Here's your bad art.

You kids just don't appreciate aesthetics anymore. You just want the flash and the bang. No love for the subtleties.