Now a days… You can google a manga and you'll find the scans/trans of it. If not, or if it's licensensed if you have the connections you can find it "underground". SO WHY DO PEOPLE WASTE THEIR MONEY BUYING MANGA?? I used to buy manga, before i found my computer (after finding the fridge). Now I have a closet full of crappy english manga...
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Because there won't be manga if you don't pay….-_-
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Because a scanlation is no replacement for an honest-to-goodness book in your hands.
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REALLY. Not only does being cheap like that make me feel bad (Oda doesn't slave over it for free), but I actually prefer to have it in my hands, instead of looking at a LQ scan (OP chapters up to mid Skypiea) on a computer screen all day.
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what about tankoubon? me read tankoubon.
I'm very sorry if i did not speicify the fact that I'm only refering to the english manga companies. Gomen nasai.
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Same reason, basically. Why buy a ton load o' something you can't read? There are scripts, but again with the sitting at the computer screen (unless you're crazy enough to print it all or write it into the books). And seeing his manga flop in America would probably make Oda feel bad.
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There's the thing, LEARN TO READ IT.
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Would you really learn Japanese just to read a comic? Would you learn German to read a slightly less expensive copy of Will to Power?
EDIT: I'm not gonna waste another post on this.
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I wouldn't read Will to power. that's the thing. If you want to read it you should learn to read it.
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I'm almost afraid to comment, since if I say what I'm thinking, I'll get AT THE LEAST a warning. Know now that I'm hostile to you, Right Click. I just want to straighten that little bit out.
Reading online scanlations is… it doesn't have the same, awesome feel of actually having the book in your hands. Having read part of the Baratie arc online and part in ASJ, I can comfortably say that -- despite "Zolo" -- I enjoyed the ASJ reading more. The translations were generally better in ASJ, besides a few quibbles, as was the quality of the scans. I can only imagine the same would be true for tankoubon.
I, personally, think it's downright dumbass-stupid to just read online. And, even if you get the tanks and use Stephen's scripts, it isn't going to be exactly the same as reading a full, translated manga right IN YOUR HANDS that you can actually READ. That feeling cannot be replaced by a mere computer -- it CANNOT. If you want to go that route -- fine, no skin off my back. But I still think, and will continue to say, that such a route is lacking in something.
Originally posted by Right Click
I wouldn't read Will to power. that's the thing. If you want to read it you should learn to read it.… You CAN read it, albeit slowly, through Viz's translations. Poof! No need to learn a complicated language. All you need is some patience, really.
Myself, I'm going to go down a three-fold path -- Viz, Scans, and Tanks. I'll buy the tanks first, then Viz's translations, and use scans until I can scrape together enough money to buy the tanks. Then, out they go. That's the plan, anyway.
In short: Although it'll take years, buying both the tanks and Viz versions will benefit Oda the most, I'd say. And, as well, it will benefit YOU by allowing you to actually touch and feel your One Piece. Same goes for every other series... unless it was butchered, like Tenjo Tenge. THEN, is the time to bust out them scans without the slightest bit of shame.
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Support the company/author. At least, that's one of my primary reasons. That, and it is nice to have a version of it to carry around and read.
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_Originally posted by GoAnderson+May 18 2005, 09:01 PM–>QUOTE(GoAnderson @ May 18 2005, 09:01 PM)I'm almost afraid to comment, since if I say what I'm thinking, I'll get AT THE LEAST a warning. Know now that I'm hostile to you, Right Click. I just want to straighten that little bit out.
Reading online scanlations is... it doesn't have the same, awesome feel of actually having the book in your hands. Having read part of the Baratie arc online and part in ASJ, I can comfortably say that -- despite "Zolo" -- I enjoyed the ASJ reading more. The translations were generally better in ASJ, besides a few quibbles, as was the quality of the scans. I can only imagine the same would be true for tankoubon.
I, personally, think it's downright dumbass-stupid to just read online. And, even if you get the tanks and use Stephen's scripts, it isn't going to be exactly the same as reading a full, translated manga right IN YOUR HANDS that you can actually READ. That feeling cannot be replaced by a mere computer -- it CANNOT. If you want to go that route -- fine, no skin off my back. But I still think, and will continue to say, that such a route is lacking in something._
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I'm hostile, maybe… Because of the wording of the whole deal.
Originally posted by Right Click
SO WHY DO PEOPLE WASTE THEIR MONEY BUYING MANGA??Supporting the original author – especially one such as Oda -- is just common courtesy when his work is sheer bliss to you. When you gather together enough will to read a series, it should be in a way that creates maximum enjoyment for the reader and gives some profits to the author.
Take me and Dragon Ball for example. I'd long wanted a complete collection of the first sixteen volumes. I slowly, but surely, bought Viz's releases as I could. I could have found online scans, probably. But, as I said before, those scans lack a considerable amount of spirit that one finds from reading manga with one's own two eyes and own two hands. In this way, I satisfied both tenents -- I reaped maximum enjoyment, and also gave a little something back to the author. I think, anyway.
Maybe I'm just talking nonsense; I really don't know.
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I don't know either.
I suppose this was a just a VERY VERY dumb question. because there's so many variables…
I myself shall continue to buy Tankoubon...
The Deal with holding it "In your hands" business is the same with tankoubon. You can hold it. I read the scans and then when the tankoubon come out I buy them and I don't need to re-read the scans or get sripts because I remember what happened, sure I don't know exact dialoge but I know what's happening and If I continue to learn japanese in school I will be able to read them anyway.
And I'm not so sure that Oda gets very much money out of his English manga sales...
Who knows though, Maybe I'm just retarted..
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I don't think it was a dumb question at all…. if you don't wanna buy the mangas don't, support Oda in other ways (when they come out with toys maybe, or video games)
I'm sure Viz gets most of Oda's profits with the english version of the manga anyway..... I mean how many copies were sold in Japan? 7 million.... I say do whatever the hell you want
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I'm really hesitant to keep this open. I ask that everyone be careful on this thread, because it presents some legal issues that I would rather not get the site tangled in.
If you download scanslations online, without buying either the original Japanese tankabons or the English tankabons as they become available - under some legal definitions, that is THEFT.
A lot of things we do within the fandom are already treading on illegal waters. The one thing that we CAN say to defend ourselves, however, is that we support the product in some way, shape, or form. From the sounds of it, Right Click, you're supporting it by buying the Japanese version, and that's great.
But Viz DID purchaise the rights, and supporting Viz is supporting Oda. If you don't want to support Viz, perfectly understandable. Just make sure you are supporting Oda's work SOME HOW.
…And if you're not, don't go bragging here about it, because that's the sort of thing that can get sites shut down.
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i tottally agree with goanderson. I like reading online,but the book feeling is much better. Ive read most manga online,but still buy the books. I also like them for collection on my self. With the books you can also see things a lot easier that you missed the first time around.
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I want to read One Piece in English that isn't lowered to cater to the absolute lowest common denominator. I don't want to be an elitist Wapanese twit that has to read everything in a "pure" state. I also don't want to spend a small fortune importing books.
As far as scanlations go, I get the weekly Jump scans, wait for the translation, and then delete it all three days after the translation showed up.
(On the "theft" issues Ginny brought up – Seeing the "Manga you'd like to read but don't have a link" thread bothers me. 1: Legal can of worms, RIGHT THERE. 2: I am bothered on some level by people that want their free shit and want it without making a real effort to find it themsleves. It makes me... resentful I guess? It's hard to explain. The best I can say is that I feel the same way whenever I see another girl giggle and flirt her way into getting her baggage carried... she's perfectly capable of doing it herself, but won't because she can con some shmuck into it with hormones. Woah, TMI and I am BITTER. Ha ha, bitter fatty.)
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Originally posted by Bloodfoot@May 18 2005, 11:41 PM
(On the "theft" issues Ginny brought up – Seeing the "Manga you'd like to read but don't have a link" thread bothers me. 1: Legal can of worms, RIGHT THERE. 2: I am bothered on some level by people that want their free shit and want it without making a real effort to find it themsleves. It makes me... resentful I guess? It's hard to explain. The best I can say is that I feel the same way whenever I see another girl giggle and flirt her way into getting her baggage carried... she's perfectly capable of doing it herself, but won't because she can con some shmuck into it with hormones. Woah, TMI and I am BITTER. Ha ha, bitter fatty.)
[snapback]51526[/snapback]It's really funny. I don't really follow that thread, since I don't read too much manga on my computer. But Monty/Madgophermm5 was telling me the other day when he saw someone wanting to know where Get Backers manga was, he was tempted to say "At Waldenbooks, you cheap bastard!" but didn't because he was afraid I'd warn him for it. ^_~ However…I'm glad you bring this up, because you're right - it can tread on legal waters. And I do understand how you feel, trust me. Hmm. It's something I'll be bringing to the mods and admins attention when I get a chance.
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I looked at that thread, and woah. Almost all of it was liscened. Evangelion, Yugioh, Yu Yu Hakusho, Battle Royale, Gravitation, Beet the Vandal Buster, FLCL, Lupin III, Fullmetal Alchemist, Cowboy Bebop, Dragonball, Detective Conan… and that's just the first three pages.
This could get us shut down.
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Well - I dunno about Oda. But as an artist in my spare time, it goes like this:
me: "Dag, what I just drew looks pretty boss. Hey, I'll put it up for other people to look at so they will boost my ego."
other person: "Wow. You rule. Draw more."
me: "okay <3"
other person: "That looks pretty shanghai. Hey, I'll pay you to make more of that."
me: "Whoa, really ? By all means !"
other person: "And how !"
second other person: "You know, I like what you do but I don't like it enough to pay you for it."
me: "Uhh, okay."
second other person: "So I'll just keep hoarding your stuff to myself and never show you my support okay ^_^"
me: "Uhhhh wait a minute here O_o"
That's pretty much what it feels like from this side of the table. To me, at least; I'm not going to speak for Oda or anything but I do know a lot of artists feel that way about their work. The best thing you can do for an artist is to support them by giving them the drive to create more art. Which, in the world of comics, is pretty much equivalent to giving your dues, which… is pretty much the same for nearly ANYTHING you enjoy. I mean, really. You think that's free, that Internet you're using ?
shuts up
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Bloodfoot - I just added a legal disclaimer. For me personally, the few manga I have downloaded, mainly One Piece, FMA, and Bleach, are all licensed - but I am also buying them in English, and more often than not in Japanese as well. The scanslations are just a tide over.
If people are DLing without supporting the original…we won't be responsible.
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Would you really learn Japanese just to read a comic? Would you learn German to read a slightly less expensive copy of Will to Power?
I did. o.o
As far as I know, all the money oda gets from foreign versions of the manga comes in the form of a lump sum known as the Licencing Fee. That means if it completely bombs after volume 1, he doesn't lose a dime. However, he probably does lose a substantial amount of money from the Japanese customers who could be reading Jump, but download the raws instead, and don't buy the tankoubans. Don't tell too many Japanese people about this site. >.>
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My logic is this:
I am an oxymoron. I am a college student that has money. I have money thanks to a very lucrative summer internship job.
I have a hobby, and I enjoy being able to support the providers of my hobby. I buy RPG books, I buy video games, I buy Anime DVDs, and Manga is no exception. I'm HAPPY that my money supports my hobbies, and that part of my money goes to support the author of the series. I don't see it as a waste of money whatsoever.
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Originally posted by RoboBlue@May 18 2005, 11:57 PM
**> Would you really learn Japanese just to read a comic? Would you learn German to read a slightly less expensive copy of Will to Power?I did. o.o
[snapback]51545[/snapback]**I'm not so much impressed by your dedication as I am by your crazy amount of free time.
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_Originally posted by Buccaneer+May 18 2005, 05:42 PM–>QUOTE(Buccaneer @ May 18 2005, 05:42 PM)Would you really learn Japanese just to read a comic? Would you learn German to read a slightly less expensive copy of Will to Power?
[snapback]51476[/snapback]I read Chinese manga to learn my Chinese. I created a German scanlation group to learn my German. (Link below.) Do I have so much time on my hand on top of translating every week? Not really, but I love manga and learning language.
@May 18 2005, 08:57 PM
However, he probably does lose a substantial amount of money from the Japanese customers who could be reading Jump, but download the raws instead, and don't buy the tankoubans. Don't tell too many Japanese people about this site. >.>
[snapback]51545[/snapback]__Hrmm. As far as I know, Shuei-sha isn't really expecting for any income from Weekly Jump. (Or that's what I read in some sites.) Most of the stores sells it as opened, no wrapping, no string tied aruond it. When I was still in Japan, I've never spent dime on it. Or yen. I always went to a bookstore every Monday with my friends and read it there. Store owner didn't really care, either.
So it's just a matter of effort… Go out there and read or just stay home and download.
BUT! I agree, people should buy Tanko or VIZ's manga. Or buy goodies. Anything._
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i think it's important to give money to the anime + manga industry in your own country if you want to see more of it translated.
since dailymanga.fr have opened, i buy mangas there coz they do a great job and i don't want them to stop their "dream" of selling mangas to people just because too much of us just read scans and never buy anything. (this not an ad, but this site is really great, i think you already all know dailymanga.org)
in an other and, it's also true that some companies do a job that is worse than some scanslating team, so you have to find another way to give an amount of money to the mangaka.
for one piece, the french translation sucks, so i bought a book entitled "learn japanese through reading mangas" and i'll start buying japanese one piece. i hope i'll improve my japanese level. it's just an exemple to help manga industry.
and don't forget that it's easier to lend a "real" manga to a friend than giving him scans.
btw, buy licenced manga, or at least it's strange to ask why people waste money on it, it's just that we love manga and i prefer spend 6 euros on a manga than on a mcdo.
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I think this is a good question….
Well, I've come to the conclution that I don't have money to buy nearly all comics I like and Oda really doesn't even need my money as much as some of the less known artist -after all he has one the most succeeded piece of work of his time on his had- so I really woudn't even need to buy his tankos. Yet I do so but really, it's not a matter of life and death, Oda could live happily without my input :P.
I don't find the difference between the scanlation and the real books so dramatic. Yes, it can make the difference if you're a fan but for a casual reader it's one and the same. I don't even read Japanese that well so how smart is to buy them in Japanese is questionable. You can read English or whatsoever volumes with scripts too, you don't need Japanese volumes for that (it might look stupid though)!
All and all, internet is a quite wonderful, perhaps one day all entertainment, art and media become free and legal without giant corporations behind them, at least that's what I'm looking for. Anyway, between it and this I keep buying comics, to give myself comfortable yet expensive satisfaction.
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Well, I've come to the conclution that I don't have money to buy nearly all comics I like and Oda really doesn't even need my money as much as some of the less known artist -after all he has one the most succeeded piece of work of his time on his had- so I really woudn't even need to buy his tankos. Yet I do so but really, it's not a matter of life and death, Oda could live happily without my input
Well, not if everyone ifgured the same as you, Yoska.
Originally posted by oceanizer@May 19 2005, 02:55 AM
**I read Chinese manga to learn my Chinese. I created a German scanlation group to learn my German. (Link below.) Do I have so much time on my hand on top of translating every week? Not really, but I love manga and learning language.[snapback]51633[/snapback]**
Yeah, but you didn't say "this comic is cool! I'll learn a foreign language just to read it." You had the comic help you with the languages, and they actually have a use to you, what with you wanting to be a pro translator and all.
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No I don't think so. I think that storing manga physically is easier than storing them on a PC. I can read a physical manga almost everywhere and it gives me a certain feeling of satisfaction when I lay my hands on a manga. And somehow, that supports the artist.
Though I have some criteria for buying manga, I don't buy everything I read
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As already pointed out, reading it in your hands just feels better than reading it online. As for learning Japanese so you can import and read the tankoubon, well just out of interest how long will it take to learn enough Japanese to be able to read it? Sure you can use scripts, but that means you'll be spending as much time reading the script as you will the book. Yes, writting it in the tankoubon is possible but I personaly like to keep the books in as good condition as possible.
In general, ok so Viz has changed the name from Zoro to Zolo. While I'd prefer it if they didn't make this change, what's done is done. At least they haven't made pointless name changes like HoroHoro -> Trey Racer. Plus L and R are interchangable when translating Japanese into English, resulting in some people calling Luffy Ruffy. But at least you can pick it up and read it easily. I personaly love reading manga in bed before I go to sleep at night (unless it's late and I need to be up early). I also enjoy sitting on the couch and reading it. Scanlations means I have to be stuck infront of my computer to read it and while it's OK for short periods, it's just not the same for me.
But as the old saying goes:
"To each their own" -
Originally posted by Buccaneer@May 19 2005, 03:40 AM
Yeah, but you didn't say "this comic is cool! I'll learn a foreign language just to read it." You had the comic help you with the languages, and they actually have a use to you, what with you wanting to be a pro translator and all.
[snapback]51708[/snapback]I read Chinese ones because I didn't have any money to buy Japanese ones back then. Since I'm a manga addict, I did learn Chinese to read any Manga. One of my Chinese friends is/was very into Manga and she had biggle collection of Chinese translated manga. I read them sometime using dictionary, sometime asking her what that particular word mean. And no, I wasn't exposed to scanlation nor raws yet
I was really innocent I totally lived off Chinese translated manga then. -
I plan on buying the translated version of One Piece in Indonesia. I hope that shows my support…
But I'm kinda confused about the game. If we buy a pirated version of it, would it be considered unsupportive. The pirated version's like, 20 times cheaper than the original.
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I find it better to read the manga in your hands as well. It feels better than having to squint while bending over your desk to see what the scanalation says. I don't have many volumes but I do read online. But at least I can take a volume on a trip cause otherwise I'm not taking a desktop on the plane…
I think that I'd buy the german version because I could probably understand most of it and the german is also pretty far ahead (almost up to the current volume).
But it is fun to read get the newest chapter quickly. Though I feel guilty for not buying the magazine, though it is difficult to purchase one when your about 10 hours away from japan.
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On second thought I'm with th thread creator. Buy the tanks.
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I like the Japanese volumes more, but I wouldn't say "buy the tanks." I'd say buy what you want, even if it's no OP manga at all.
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Aside from supporting the industry, it's far more practical.
A book you can take with you. You can stick a book in your backpack and show it to friends.Although, there is a certain dramatic irony to pirating One Piece…
Pirate Age (Under Construction)
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I read the OP scantlations at MSN, but I prefer to read the Viz version. My only reasonable complaint with Viz is that it feels like forever for them to bring out their GNs. If you don't like Viz, order the tanks and If you don't know japanese, use stephens scripts. All in all, I like to actually HOLD a book in my hands rather than using a computer monitor and mouse to read and switch pages.
And that was my 2 cents -_- .
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If you don't like Viz, order the tanks and If you don't know japanese, use stephens scripts.
Well, that's exactly what I'm doing.
To add to this I'm starting to use scanlations to find things I may be interesed in.
If I like what I see, I buy the Japanese volumes and support.
Oda is amazing, and he deserves my contribution.
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Well, I guess I've got the best of both worlds really… I am slowly buying the viz manga, and despite a few minor quibbles, it seems pretty accurate to me, I also have been reading online, but I have offically quit doing that now, as for me, I prefer to read it first time in book format, so I'm waiting it out.
I'm also, as someone with japanese heratige/relatives, I am able to speak and read japanese, therefore I'm also going to order 1-37 in volumes with money I've saved up with for a while. I, even then, shall keep buying the viz volumes as they come out, as it is more contribution to Oda and it means viz have good sales. If viz have got good sales, they continue to do One Piece, and more people like myself can be introduced to One Piece etc.
On the whole reading but not buying thing... No offense, but I feel that it's kinda cheap, alhough Oda ain't soem poor starving tramp, its only fair that his fans actually contribute to what they reap. (hey, that rhymes! XD) It is, as Seta Ginny said, stealing. If it is what you choose to do, I shan't condem you for it, but it is better that you don't make out that buying the manga is stupid.
Well, I'm pleased that I managed to just repeat what all others have already said, but at least its my opinion...
--Saito
