@Monkey:
Why will you not say it? It is not a hard question to answer is it?
I'm not being cryptic because I find it difficult to answer, but because I prefer not to give out my general location over the internet. I made it clear that I was born and raised in one of the most populated cities in the US, that should be enough. I don't see you offering me your address.
@Monkey:
Why are you so hostile?
I guess I just made up my mind rather quickly that I don't like you. Perhaps we were enemies in a past life?
@Monkey:
But the auction house is drawing it's audience from all over the world. If it the only place to do major slavery with the law looking the other way people are probably coming from all sorts of places. We know they are not from Shabondy, and aside from the three, the rest were not Mariejois residents, or Celstial Dragons.
This is all your personal assumption. You have no way of knowing where the audience came from. Clearly not all of them are locals, but that doesn't mean the majority aren't. The Tenryuubito are not the only people who live nearby. More importantly, it's not like the WG publicizes their support of the slave trade.
Anyone who is aware of it and making trips to Shabondy in order to purchase slaves would therefore most likely either be from somewhere nearby or a country with especially strong ties to the WG and Tenryuubito, like the Kingdom of Goa. If there were enough people from all around the world participating in the slave trade, the SHP would not have all been entirely unaware of it.
@Monkey:
Well no, not when you look at what I just pointed out.
And what was that exactly?
@Monkey:
Even if it is not all dangerous, discrimination is not always about life and limb.
That's right, and in cases where you are not risking life and limb it is always better to confront the situation than to ignore it and allow things to fester.
@Monkey:
The point of destroying the bubble would be to have them move elsewhere though lol. Or at least this would be what the logic of your argument would dictate.
Wrong, the point would be to make it a clear cut choice between separation and intigration. Without a giant bubble to host humans the merfolk who choose to remain under the Eve tree will be almost entirely unable to interact with humans. They would still have a choice between Otohime and Tiger's ideals but it will have to be black and white, because Luffy destroys the grey area.
@Monkey:
Well for starters, they are uprooted by virtue of having their home destroyed.
But for seconds, the point of destroying their home would be to have them move elsewhere.
And frankly isn't the point of doing this to have them integrate with humans? So they would need to be on dry land.
I just answered this… look up.
@Monkey:
You are very aggressive for no reason…
What are you made at? It cannot be me. Was it someone else?
Whatever you say Mr.dbZ. You're just a longtime lurker who couldn't be bothered to even make an account until about a week ago. Then you saw the new forum version and suddenly decided it would be a good time to join up and make over a hundred posts in less than a week.
@Monkey:
I did not pick it up because it wasn't there.
It was not apparent as soon as we saw that Fishman Island was a nice place to live.
Hatchi was talking about the Arlong crew there. Probably other Fishmen too inevitably.
And all Fishmen should have the right to travel wherever they like.
Yes they should, but they don't, and they never will until they start to stand up for themselves and their rights. If you don't get that the whole point of this scene was to illustrate how every fishman wants to be part of the world above, even those who end up twisted like Arlong, then you're pretty slow on uptake. Their symbol of freedom is the sun for crying out loud. You think Hachi and Arlong are the only ones who care that they can't live underneath it's warmth?
@Monkey:
It is not imagination which dictates this, it is real life that I have known.
Fantasy stories targeted towards a younger audience are almost required to have a happy ending, real life isn't. There is nothing wrong with looking at the situation on FI while keeping that in mind.
@Monkey:
So you knew where I was from? Unlikely, it isn't common.
I don't care where you're from. I said I know who you are, not where you're from.
@Monkey:
Sorry, but I am not going to mince words about something this important.
You do realize we're talking about a comic book here? Not to say the actual issues being discussed are not important, but really, get over yourself.
@Monkey:
Then would you like to explain?
You have rejected to do so which confirms my suspicions.
Actually I did explain quite clearly. Just because I choose not to give you the name of the city where I live doesn't mean I didn't give you enough information in my last post for an intelligent person to piece it together for the most part. You have much more information on me than I do on you at this point. Not that I care where you are.
@Monkey:
I assume you mean you are Jewish. Do you not support the concept of Zionism? It is the idea for a Jewish nation-state. Controversy about Palestine aside I would think it is a nice concept.
I wouldn't call myself a active Zionist, but I do believe in the existence of the state of Israel. I'm not always thrilled by their foreign policy but they're in a tricky situation. Either way though none of that has anything to do with why I brought up Israel. I mentioned it as an afterword to my Grandfather's story because I was trying to make you see how it was formed and maintained to this day, and how that relates to FI.
@Monkey:
But these are real issues.
A good author uses a story to reflect on real life.
Which Oda is definitely doing.
That's right but when a story is geared towards a younger audience the author has a responsibility to solve those real issues in a very idealistic manner. The trick is making the fantasy ending consistent with the narrative, but there will always be a fantasy ending.
@Monkey:
It would be a bad message to send, all the more because as you say children are the main audience.
Where is the bad message if things ultimately work out for the best? You act like destruction can never bring about positive change. Did you bother reading Skypia? Clearly the stiuation isn't the same, but if it hadn't been for Enel and the mutual destruction of their homes, the Shandians and Skypians would never have come together like they did.
@Monkey:
I am uncertain about what will play out, aside from being certain what you describe will never be it.
So you have no real opinion or anything of value to add to the conversation beyond my being wrong? Typical.
@Monkey:
So there is no alternative but what you suggest.
That is not a point.
That's not what I said, I said I have yet to see Luffy leave a population in a situation that isn't ultimately better than when he arrived. If you can think of a better way for FI to be destroyed and still end things on a positive note, then I'm all ears. Oh yeah, I forgot you said something like this…
I am uncertain about what will play out, aside from being certain what you describe will never be it.
Well that's constructive… so much for your alternative I guess.
@Monkey:
Which is the issue with what you suggest, that it does not make sense.
Maybe not to you, but that's fine because generally I don't think you make much sense either.
@Monkey:
How many merfolk? This is not only a city, but a whole island with various towns on it. Where do you move the entire population of a small country?
Several hundred at least, perhaps thousands when you think about it. Remember that Water 7 is built on top of itself as more and more of the city becomes submerged. There is an entire underwater city below W7. More than enough room for a sizeable population of merfolk.
When you consider that in concert with the fact that they could be vital to Iceburg's plan to turn the island into a ship, we have every reason to believe W7 could become the worlds first significantly integrated population of humans and merfolk. There is plenty of room for them and their help would be vital, even after the project is complete, in order help maintain the ship/island.
Obviously the entire population of FI couldn't go to Water 7, but I never counted on the entire population moving. Only the bravest would risk it at first, and those lucky enough to find a stable home might send back for others. So slowly, more and more merfolk would venture out into the world. The bubble tech should still work even without the giant city so they might be able to rebuild to some extent even after the destruction. Not so much though that they would be still be able to interact and trade with humans unterwater though.
@Monkey:
It is sad to me that you do not see parallels in the story. This is what stories are for, whether for children of adults. The good ones.
You seem to be selling Oda short on his ability as an author. He is speaking now to this sort of history and experience.
Yes, in some ways he is. It's just unfortunate that the entire point of my story apparently went right over your head… I guess I'll have to spell it out for you.
@Monkey:
Yes, Israel. Israel is the very definition of a nation-state. Much like Fishman Island.
Would you say Israel should be destroyed and the Jews there should simply learn to live elsewhere regardless of how they feel?
That is not right.
My point has nothing to do with Israel's right to exist and everything to do with how it was formed, and why it exists to this day despite being surrounded by neighbors who loath its existence. Israel is and historically has always been one of the most volatile and contested parts of the world. There are a multitude of reasons for this, from its religious significance to its location. Had the Roman empire not kicked the Jews out two thousand years ago, who knows what would have happened, but one thing that's for sure is a small nation of Jews would not have been able to hold out for two millenia. They would almost certainly have either been driven out eventually by another force or wiped out entirely. Something much easier to do to a people when they're are all in one place. Israel as it exists today was created and maintains its sovereignty thanks to the diaspora.
Had the holocaust had taken place ten thousand meters below sea level, do you think Israel would still have been created? It is because of how it happened all over Europe, with witnesses everywhere, that the Jewish people were able to garner enough political capital to establish their own country. Then it was the wealth and influence that had been slowly accumulated over the years, all around the world, that allowed them to put that political capital to use. It's that same influence on the western world that keeps Israel relatively stable to this day. This doesn't make the holocaust any less horrible, but it would be another tradgedy in itself had it been somehow covered up. Without coming up to the surface and having some effect on the human world, merfolk can count on the vast majority of the human population being entirely ignorant of their plight.
@Monkey:
Do you win a lot? What am I getting into…
Win or lose, I don't get dealt with.