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Chapter 519 "The Quality of a King" Discussion
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So, the translations by Kikuna and Ulrilra say
"Hancock: Just like me…He possesses the "Haoushoku"...!!? What's going on here!! // He's not just a normal kid? That guy...!! // But it seems he hasn't mastered it yet…"
But the FrankyHouse one on onemanga.com says "But even I haven't mastered it yet myself…"
Was it confirmed which one was right?
When I saw it, I didn't read it fully, but I vaguely remember a word in it that seems to say she's referring to herself. So FrankyHouse is likely the one in the right if I'm remembering this correctly. And it is Hancock who says it. Her word bubble is wavering.
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Now is this Haki like an attack or something or it just stuns you for like a quick second
man i remember when Boa tucked her hair behind her ear…..SUUUPPPAAA SEXY!!! -
wonder if we will get an haki extension to zoro and sanji, i'm sure those two would have it.
zoro would have that killer intent. ( most likely demon )
sanji would have that chivalrous nature. -
@Zik:
Damn this chap pretty much convinced me that all of the amazons are being fooled and know nothing of DFs and think it's from the gorgon curse. Also the gorgon story is most likely a lie. Strangely enough they know nothing of DFs.
Finally come to our side, eh? freedom would be proud.
@Zik:
Also one of the sisters used mantra by predicting Luffy's attacks, so I'm gonna assume mantra is some type of haki, so Enel and that little girl from the Shandian tribe can use haki.
While it is still possible,
don't be too quick on ruling on that. Mantra was all about being born with the ability to hearing, with Enel's ability increased by his Logia DF. Haki could very well be doing things differently. That, and Luffy didn't make a flashback comment like "just like that Eminem guy did!". (Put a strike through some stuff I don't think is correct. See post below.)@Zik:
Also Hancock statement that she hasn't perfected her king haki proves to me that haki isn't your dreams/ambition manifested and all you have to do is strongly want something for it to be powerful. It's an ability that can be trained just like a rokushiki.
Hmm. Interesting point.
@Zik:
Speaking of rokushiki I'm still not sold that it's haki but this is some of the first evidence I think might prove it even though I think otherwise. You could think the sisters were using tekkai when Luffy punched them but his punches never bounced off of Blueno or Luffy so I dunno if that means they are separate techniques or the sisters just have some stronger version of tekkai.
Again, finally coming over to our side eh…? Oh! And there was a time that Lucci's Tekkai made Luffy bounce off in a similar fashion, as Shmeckie pointed out to me on the last page of the spoiler thread. But I still don't necessarily think it is so…I am simply keeping the possibility alive.
WHAT Does Haoshoku mean? This is like… Against BOTH Viewpoints on the Issue...
Agreed. It should have been translated. If not, at the least it should have had a T/N. I was pretty irritated with that because I had to think about it for a while before I realized what it was talking about. Though, that is because I knew it was supposed to be something else. Otherwise I might have simply thought, "oh, guess I will learn what this is later."
I WOULD, I REALLY WOULD!! But NOBODY would read mine, Everybody would go "She Doesn't Leave 'Nakama' Untranslated?! WHAT IS THIS SHIT?!" and then everyone would stop reading after the First Chapter I did.
Hey Rin. We have had our differences about the whole Nakama thing and such, but for the record I just want to state that I prefer the other way, but do not really mind. If you translate the whole raw when it comes out, I will clean the raw and scanlate it for you. Promise. All I ask is that you include translator notes for me so people know what is going on. Maybe we can come to terms on a few words that would be untranslated. How about it…?
Edit: Oops, I deleted my post. Upped it again though.
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besides, Color of Pimping King is fun
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So it looks like everyone has a certain type of haki (if 1/1000000 have luffy's type, that implies there are more common types that many people have), and it's something that needs to be trained (hancock said she hasnt mastered hers).
Each haki has a specific effect-
Luffy and Hancock's make people obey them (those marines did start giving her everything on their ship when she said she wanted it, maybe this has more to do than them simply being entranced by her beauty) (the sisters listened to luffy when he told them to stop, and the big one- Duval's pet ran away when luffy used his haki in saying it was pointless to fight or something along those lines),
Marygold's is similar to mantra,
Sandersonia's is like Rayleigh's and nullifies abilities (or maybe reflects power, since luffy's arm was bounced off just like a wave is reflected, and rayleigh 'stopped' kizaru's attack, we don't know if it was bounced, nullified, or something else).In addition to these special effects, if the haki you release is just too much for someone to handle, instead of the effect taking place they will simply pass out.
If this stuff has been said, I wanted to sum it up again :)
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Whew, thanks for the scans.
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I WOULD, I REALLY WOULD!!
But NOBODY would read mine, Everybody would go "She Doesn't Leave 'Nakama' Untranslated?! WHAT IS THIS SHIT?!" and then everyone would stop reading after the First Chapter I did.Vengard and Elric don't, and people watch their subs. And they do the best OP subs out there right now. You should totally do scans. There's a bunch of people, myself included, that would LOVE to see properly translated recent manga chapters.
Hell, I can guarantee I'd exclusively being reading them.
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The creator of HunterXHunter didn't add Nen until late in the manga, but he did it quite well that it fit in.
As for my opinions, Haki is just the controling of Energy. All those unexplainable things in OP will be Haki in some way. Of course most people wouldn't know what Haki is, even though they have been using it.
How did Zoro fire off a beam slash from his sword? He used Haki unknowingly to fire his energy in the form of a slash.
Asura? Zoro bending his Aura with Haki.
Diable Jamble? Assist Haki to the leg, making it catch on fire.
How was Raleigh able to damage/block Kaizaru? Haki in the form that bounces even elements?Just my thoughts.
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The creator of HunterXHunter didn't add Nen until late in the manga, but he did it quite well that it fit in.
As for my opinions, Haki is just the controling of Energy. All those unexplainable things in OP will be Haki in some way. Of course most people wouldn't know what Haki is, even though they have been using it.
How did Zoro fire off a beam slash from his sword? He used Haki unknowingly to fire his energy in the form of a slash.
Asura? Zoro bending his Aura with Haki.
Diable Jamble? Assist Haki to the leg, making it catch on fire.
How was Raleigh able to damage/block Kaizaru? Haki in the form that bounces even elements?Just my thoughts.
I tend to agree with this train of thought. Thing certainly seem to be going this way with the snake sisters using mantra and tekkai-ish techniques.
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IMO the translation of haki as ambition doesn't make any sense. Using the word spirit is a lot better. Even better is to leave it as haki.
I don't really see how amibition wouldn't make sense unless you're arguing it from a language point of view. But as far as the definition is considered, we don't really know what is required to use "haki."
But so far It doesn't seem to be conventional ki/spiritual energy in a normal sense, but more along the lines of transferring thoughts such as ambition.
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Thanks for the scans. After reading this chapter im more interested in the plot now. Cause even if Luffy does defeat Boa how the hell is he going to get off the island or how is he gonna turn Margaret and friends back to normal.
The part where there was i didnt even master it (haki) was that Hancock talking?
I dont like the way the fight is carrying out, in shonen when the main character gets a power up and faces a powerful enemy the character usually defeats the enemy, so much for my 'luffy-better-dont-defeat-Hancock" thought -
Come on now, lets not try to blame everything on Haki, then we will be saying DF are cores of Haki or some shit. I like to think of Haki as different from your everyday Ki or Chakra. D;
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Finally come to our side, eh? freedom would be proud.
While it is still possible, don't be too quick on ruling on that. Mantra was all about being born with the ability to hearing, with Enel's ability increased by his Logia DF. Haki could very well be doing things differently. That, and Luffy didn't make a flashback comment like "just like that Eminem guy did!".
Hmm. Interesting point.
Again, finally coming over to our side eh…? Oh! And there was a time that Lucci's Tekkai made Luffy bounce off in a similar fashion, as Shmeckie pointed out to me on the last page of the spoiler thread. But I still don't necessarily think it is so…I am simply keeping the possibility alive.
I came around because imo now there's proof lol to suggest these things are possible/speculate and support them with something.
As for the Enel thing, I even mentioned it myself that it would've been clearer if he had thought or mentioned Enel in regards to having the similar technique. Despite it's pretty clear she thought his attack before he made it, if it's not mantra it's either a higher form of it or a lower one.
Mantra is basically sensing an action before it happens and knowing where and how many ppl are in a certain vicinity or i.e precognition and claircognizance; spidey sense(or that sensory ability Daredevil has when it comes to your surroundings). On another note I don't think it was ever said you're born with the mantra ability(although I believe that just saying) cuz I remember ppl speculating that you could learn it as unlikely as it may be.
As for rokushiki I just said now there's something to support that it may be using haki in some form. If they start using something similar to rokushiki techniques(I'm not sold on the tekkai but it may be a possibility) then I'd say it's more possible it could be using haki.
Anyway as for ppl complaining about translations again, you're gonna have to deal with it since these scantalation teams DO NOT GET PAID FOR THIS. If it bothers you that much become a scantalator. Beggars can't be choosers. How much gaul could a poor person have if they asked for money but then said they only take crisp 20 dollar bills?
The creator of HunterXHunter didn't add Nen until late in the manga, but he did it quite well that it fit in.
Not really nen got introduced after the first arc(after the Hunter exam) that is NOT late and even if it was it shouldn't be compared to Oda with OP since it's 500+ chaps in. We should attribute haki fully being introduced now to Oda's poor pacing(something he recognizes and acknowledges), we've now recognized and connected some of the hints to hakiand it's been a long time coming_._ I would say he's been putting a lot of work in to it.
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@Zik:
I came around because imo now there's proof lol to suggest these things are possible/speculate and support them with something.
Bah! We provided more than enough evidence for a solid theory. This just makes the theory almost certain. No worries though.
@Zik:
Mantra is basically sensing an action before it happens and knowing where and how many ppl are in a certain vicinity or i.e precognition and claircognizance; spidey sense (or that sensory ability Daredevil has when it comes to your surroundings).
Looking back and reading some of the Mantra stuff again I was wrong, and it seems more likely now (to me) that it can be learned and therefore might in fact have been something related to or in actuality "Haki". In this case I would say perhaps the people we have seen with the ability thus far, as well as Sandersonia were all born with the color that is strongest in that area. I'm just theorizing of course, but who knows. If it is Haki…that is. I have pro's and con's for it right now that bother me.
Pros:
- "Color" of Haki seems to support the idea specific people have natural strengths and could be "born" with it.
- Rayleigh and Shanks know Haki, so it is likely Roger does. Rayleigh mentioned – during all this "Haki" buildup -- Roger could 'hear the voice of all things', which we assume might have been Haki.
- The Skypiea people and the priest in the Jaya flashback all talk about Mantra and hearing the voices of other people and the voice of their "life". IE: Aisa knowing when people died.
- Sandersonia uses an identical ability that is yet to be explained, but the chapter emphasizes that it was somewhat unique to Sandersonia.
- Different people had varying levels of Mantra. Haki seems to already be suggesting that different "colors" allow different strengths and abilities in the use of Haki.
Cons:
- Luffy didn't have any thought bubble that related what Sandersonia did to Mantra. Usually this type of thing would happen, but perhaps Oda didn't want to be too obvious.
- Mantra itself was never fully explained, and as I cannot find anything that says you need to be born with the ability, it is suggested since (at least) Aisa is explained as to having been born with the ability.
- Haki itself has yet to be explained, so most of the pros could easily be null.
- More that I forgot while writing this.
I remember saying back then that I had wished Luffy would learn a very basic form (like Satori's) of Mantra.
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@dirt:
When I saw it, I didn't read it fully, but I vaguely remember a word in it that seems to say she's referring to herself. So FrankyHouse is likely the one in the right if I'm remembering this correctly. And it is Hancock who says it. Her word bubble is wavering.
Hancock says-
"ーーーだけど自分じゃ制御できてないのね。。。"
"However I haven't mastered it."
So whatever scan said that or a derivative of that is correct.
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So, the translations by Kikuna and Ulrilra say
But it seems he hasn't mastered it yet…"
But the FrankyHouse one on onemanga.com says "But even I haven't mastered it yet myself…"
FrankyHouse's is an early version of Ulrilra's. He changed that line later on.
edit:
So whatever scan said that or a derivative of that is correct.
So Ulrilra updated his translation with a wrong line? Ouch :D
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I think I'd like it better if Hancock said that she hadn't even mastered it yet. Hopefully it'll be clarified with 4 different people saying things for 2 different sides.
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Pros:"Color" of Haki seems to support the idea specific people have natural strengths and could be "born" with it.
I don't see how that neccessarily supports the idea. It could just as well mean that a person's character shapes the "color" of their Haki.
And taking a look at the chapter title ("The quality of a King") and how Hancock explicitly states that Luffy has the attributs of a king after she mentioned the color. It seems obvious that it is completely related to a person's ambition/personality. And nothing to do with bloodline or being born into it.
And another thing pointed out here.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2005078&postcount=21
If that's true then it's something learned (so Luffy might not be able to do much with it without getting a good grasp of what he's doing.) Unless that term can also be applied to someone simply obtaining it, as opposed to learning in a literal sense. But Hancocks comment on not "mastering" it herself supports the idea that there is some skill and complexity to Haki usage. And it's not just throwing around their thoughts. -
I don't see how that neccessarily supports the idea. It could just as well mean that a person's character shapes the "color" of their Haki.
If. If they can "shape" their own color. If not, then they are born with it (the color), and have to learn how to use the abilities thereof. Translations for this chapter have cause a lot of problems already, but going from Aohige_AP's translations from the spoiler thread – which I trust -- the "Haou" Haki color or what have you is extremely rare. I find it hard to believe a "personality that is shaped by someone" can be something you can deem "rare". Especially in the way it was used. IE: If you can earn or shape that color, then it isn't rare because we know more than one person that is quite likely just like this 'ambition'-wise: Kidd, Blackbeard, Zoro, and Whitebeard. Not so rare anymore, right? So why mention it? That said, I am going with the idea that you are born with innate attributes, that are described I guess as colors. Who knows whether or not this will prove to be true. Either way, I keep it as a possible "pro".
It seems obvious that it is completely related to a person's ambition/personality. And nothing to do with bloodline or being born into it. And another thing pointed out here. Unless that term can also be applied to someone simply obtaining it, as opposed to learning in a literal sense. But Hancocks comment on not "mastering" it herself supports the idea that there is some skill and complexity to Haki usage. And it's not just throwing around their thoughts.
Again, I trust Aohige_AP's basic translation for now – which is more or less similar and just has more background on the word -- so I would say you are born with a color, but have to learn how to use it. IE: You are born with certain strengths, but have to work to learn how to apply those strengths. In this case, Luffy has the most powerful strong points, and thus the most potential.
Again though, I am simply making a basic theory out of it all. We don't know enough to say anything for sure.
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What's the matter?
Are you blind?
Luffy didn't made her table calmly Margaret, it was her own choice.please read the scanlation carefully, Sandersonia was clearly counting at that time
and at the moment of the final count Luffy released a shout w/ HAOUSHOKU HAKI which has the power to stand above others w/ effect that cud make people obey/enslaved or etc just like Hancock using her charm w/c cud be probably a haki
So upon hearing/feeling what Luffy said "the 2 sisters obeyed Luffy" because of his haki of what we know that cud stand above others
(well it's late sry for the typos and im getting 2 sleep now 'night)
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I skimmed the early pages of the thread, but I want to get the idea I had out. So if someone already beat me to this, I apologize in advance for being lazy and not reading the whole thread. Also, please note I will be using the term "Ambition" over "Haki" because I like it.
Anyway:
This chapter offered a lot of little hints at Ambition's power, in my mind.
Luffy and Hancock's "King" Ambition seems to have two abilities that I can see. The first is that it completely knocks out the weak-willed and/or unprepared. The second, more notable affect, as mentioned by Rori, it seems to cause obedience. Hancock has repeatedly been shown charming/seducing people into forgiving the most horrid of actions. Just now, it looked as though Luffy made the Gorgon sisters follow hsi command of stop. He thought they were just being reasonable, but the idea they were compelled to obey is a possibility. It may also be a factor in the charisma seen in Luffy, Shanks, and Rayleigh. All are well-liked/respected in general and Luffy and Shanks in particular seem to be well-loved by their crews. If that's the case, Hancock's taken this to its logical extreme, using it to get away with doing whatever she wants. It takes a supreme act of will to resist this (Momonga's stabbing himself), or possibly the exact same kind of power (which may be part of why the Mero-Mero Mellow didn't affect Luffy the first time around).
Sandersonia's Ambition appears alarmingly like Skypeia's mantra. A fact I'm positive has already been mentioned so I won't go into it.
Marigold's ability, if it is what I think it is, has actually been seen in one other person: Monkey D. Garp and his "Fist of Love." He is the only other one to actually cause pain to Luffy's rubber body. Just what kind of power this is I have no idea. But I'm betting it's the same version of Ambition we've seen imbued in the Amazons' arrows to make them more destructive.
That's what's occurred to me thanks to this chapter. Now to wait for the next chapter or so to see if I'm anywhere close to the truth.
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Just now, it looked as though Luffy made the Gorgon sisters follow hsi command of stop. He thought they were just being reasonable, but the idea they were compelled to obey is a possibility. It may also be a factor in the charisma seen in Luffy, Shanks, and Rayleigh. All are well-liked/respected in general and Luffy and Shanks in particular seem to be well-loved by their crews. If that's the case, Hancock's taken this to its logical extreme, using it to get away with doing whatever she wants
Well, I think Boa is amplifying her natural haki/ambition power with her power fruit to seduce everyone including the women, but I don't think that Shanks is using his own ability to influence his crew members. Neither is Luffy. Both crews have extremely strong willed members who wouldn't be affected by Luffy's "haki"…those two are followed because of their natural charisma and their kindness rather than some inate ability to force people to do what they want.
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I like the part when Luffy shouted,I can't wait for the next chapter
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Well, I think Boa is amplifying her natural haki/ambition power with her power fruit to seduce everyone including the women, but I don't think that Shanks is using his own ability to influence his crew members. Neither is Luffy. Both crews have extremely strong willed members who wouldn't be affected by Luffy's "haki"…those two are followed because of their natural charisma and their kindness rather than some inate ability to force people to do what they want.
Right. I doubt Luffy or Shanks are using any kind of mind trick or such on their crews. My thinking is more that enhanced charisma is a side-effect/symptom of this specific kind of Ambition. Good natured folk like Luffy and Shanks can win people over to their side, whereas more seductive personalities like Hancock's can force people to let her do as she pleases.
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The second, more notable affect, as mentioned by Rori, it seems to cause obedience. Hancock has repeatedly been shown charming/seducing people into forgiving the most horrid of actions. Just now, it looked as though Luffy made the Gorgon sisters follow hsi command of stop. He thought they were just being reasonable, but the idea they were compelled to obey is a possibility.
I don't think it forces obedience on ppl. I don't think Hancock's charm/seducing is her haki being used, that would mean she uses it constantly to get her way, which is just a little too excessive for a power. The reason the sister put Marge down imo is cuz they were shocked he had king haki making that a more pressing potentially dangerous priority than killing Marge especially if they did break her, Luffy probably would've went ape shit.
He is the only other one to actually cause pain to Luffy's rubber body.
See Sentomaru….........
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@Zik:
I don't think it forces obedience on ppl. I don't think Hancock's charm/seducing is her haki being used, that would mean she uses it constantly to get her way, which is just a little too excessive for a power. The reason the sister put Marge down imo is cuz they were shocked he had king haki making that a more pressing potentially dangerous priority than killing Marge especially if they did break her, Luffy probably would've went ape shit.
See Sentomaru….........
Then again, Hancock is a villain. Using the power to bend others' wills excessively is exactly kind of thing a villain who possessed it would do.
Sentomaru caused Luffy pain? I don't remember, but then I probably just wasn't paying attention. I'll have to go double check that.
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…. Then again, Hancock is a villain. Using the power to bend others' wills excessively is exactly kind of thing a villain who possessed it would do.
I'm not saying that she wouldn't use her charming/seducing excessively I'm saying she wouldn't do that if the charming/seducing is haki. Especially since she hasn't perfected it yet, seems like a waste to constantly use haki like that.
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Assuming it's limited in amount. Much like Devil Fruit powers, we've yet to see someone grow exhausted from Ambition-use. But then, we haven't seen much extended Ambition use in general. But again, Hancock is a villainess, a spoiled one at that. I doubt she even considers the limits of use. Or, perhaps, that whatever is on her back has to do with Ambition over-use?
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Wouldn't that sort of go against her own admission that she hadn't mastered it yet?
As for Luffy's Ambition having subtle effects on his crew, just look back at the chapter where Zoro tried to cut down Chalros. The other Rookies comment on Zoro's reckless character and high bounty, with Urouge going so far as to remark that "A man like that isn't the type to take orders from just anyone. It speaks volumes about his captain."
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@_Meh_:
Wouldn't that sort of go against her own admission that she hadn't mastered it yet?
Depends on what's meant by "mastery." If willbending is an aspect of this Ambition, it may well be it's only one part of it. There may be other parts of it that Hancock hasn't learned, though she has that specific part down pat. Much the same way Nero had only yon out of rokushiki.
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If. If they can "shape" their own color. If not, then they are born with it (the color), and have to learn how to use the abilities thereof. Translations for this chapter have cause a lot of problems already, but going from Aohige_AP's translations from the spoiler thread – which I trust -- the "Haou" Haki color or what have you is extremely rare. I find it hard to believe a "personality that is shaped by someone" can be something you can deem "rare". Especially in the way it was used. IE: If you can earn or shape that color, then it isn't rare because we know more than one person that is quite likely just like this 'ambition'-wise: Kidd, Blackbeard, Zoro, and Whitebeard. Not so rare anymore, right? So why mention it? That said, I am going with the idea that you are born with innate attributes, that are described I guess as colors. Who knows whether or not this will prove to be true. Either way, I keep it as a possible "pro".
I don't see why you would find it hard to believe. It has been stated many times that Luffy's character is atypical. Shanks even mentioned it in the flashback recently. So your reasoning doesn't make sense, and none of the people you mentioned is like Luffy.
And I don't see what Aohige's transltion has to do with anything. As I never disagreed with that nor all the other translations that translate what he meant. In fact I'd use it to support what I stated. "Color of the King" Haki -> Title: "Characteristics of a King", Marigold after seeing Luffy use Haki - "That man has the attributes of a king, allowing him to stand above others."
Now I'd like to see anything suggesting that it's inherent with someone and/or someone is born with it. It's a possiblity, but so far I haven't really seen much hinting to it (save for if you tie it to Mantra and how some are born with it.) Save for those clinging to tired and old Shonen cliches about the main having some special bloodline.
Again, I trust Aohige_AP's basic translation for now – which is more or less similar and just has more background on the word -- so I would say you are born with a color, but have to learn how to use it. IE: You are born with certain strengths, but have to work to learn how to apply those strengths. In this case, Luffy has the most powerful strong points, and thus the most potential.
Which part of his tranlsations said your born with it? And (as I said before), I'm confused why you're saying you trust a particular as if to refute my statements. If I stated something that went against a translation, the point it out (as I'd be interesting in knowing if I misread anything myself.)
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After reading the chapter…I was pleasantly surprised at how interesting Luffy's fight with the sisters was. I enjoyed how he went out of his way to put Margarite and the others out of harms way and how he was getting hurt by the sisters. I think he may make a reference to the predication to Mantra maybe in the next chapter and we may see the return of Gomu Gomu no Boh, or in this case...Gomu Gomu no Jet Boh~! I would like to see how the sisters would react if he were to mention Enel and how his Mantra was also troublesome and then Hancock would be all "How could someone not from this island, much less, a man, know how to predict moves?!"
More thoughts on the chapter: Luffy unleashing his "haki" and making some of the warriors faint was cool, Hancock is like a hot, female version of Foxy when it comes to being insulted , and Luffy's final statement at the end was just plain awesome!!!
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@Zik:
I don't think it forces obedience on ppl. I don't think Hancock's charm/seducing is her haki being used, that would mean she uses it constantly to get her way, which is just a little too excessive for a power.
This reminds me of another point I wanted to bring up. If Luffy's King Haki allowed some sort of will transfer to make people obey (and Hancock's), then why did the entire crowd freak out? They all knew what "King Haki" was, and it wasn't just because people were being knocked out. Something (color?) identified it as "King Haki", and they all knew it. If that Haki, which Hancock may or may not have mastered yet was so well known then wouldn't people realize that they were being controlled? Furthermore, wouldn't the Boa sisters realize that they let Luffy and Margaret down because they were forced? Furthermore furthermore wouldn't it have been a point, and not simply them being shocked he used Haki in general? Maybe not. Maybe so. I just feel that if that was part of what he did then they shouldn't have been shocked, because no one else was shocked when they obeyed Hancock until someone yelled at them for obeying. Ok.
CodedTech: [hide]@CodedTech:
I don't see why you would find it hard to believe. It has been stated many times that Luffy's character is atypical. Shanks even mentioned it in the flashback recently. So your reasoning doesn't make sense, and none of the people you mentioned is like Luffy.
It's not that I find it hard to believe, it's just that we are talking about "Ambition" here. IF you are arguing "Ambition" then it would be incredibly vague to say who has a more unique ambition. IE: Who wants to be Pirate King no matter what? Kidd, Luffy, Blackbeard, and Whitebeard. What exactly makes one more ambitious than the other? What about Zoro? He seems pretty damned ambitious to me. So if it were a simple matter of how badly you wanted something, it wouldn't be so godlike and rare. In translation: everyone wouldn't be freaking out that Hancock is the only person they have ever seen have it. Keep in mind they are pirates and Hancock is a Shichibukai, so they aren't exactly sheltered. (The pirates that is). Due to that reason, I don't think "King Haki" can be earned. Otherwise the rest of the damned island would be trying real hard to get there right about now.
And I don't see what Aohige's translation has to do with anything. As I never disagreed with that nor all the other translations that translate what he meant. In fact I'd use it to support what I stated. "Color of the King" Haki -> Title: "Characteristics of a King", Marigold after seeing Luffy use Haki - "That man has the attributes of a king, allowing him to stand above others."
Sorry, I didn't mean to shove Aohige's like that as if it were right and that was wrong. I was simply meaning to say that it was where my theory started, and was pretty much the same as the one you pointed out. Aohige pointed out that the word originated from the "path of a warlord" and a conquering King and not a King that ruled with wisdom etc, and I merely was going off of that and how something like that doesn't seem like a simple "Ambition" you earn, and that if it were it wouldn't be so rare. I guess I didn't clarify well at all, and it was fairly pointless to post.
Now I'd like to see anything suggesting that it's inherent with someone and/or someone is born with it.
Well, this conversation originated from my take on comparing Haki and Matra. So that was what I was tying it to. Furthermore, assuming Haki and Mantra are one and the same, then it suggests not only that you are born with specific "strengths" (colors?), but also that a specific DF can amplify the abilities of Haki and maybe even vice-versa. If that is true then Hancock's Pistol Kiss makes more sense as to why it hurt Luffy, and why her Charming (were it DF related) would / could be more powerful.
Also, I should add that charming and turning someone to stone usually go hand in hand (because of the myth). Her "mero mero" is very Devil Fruitesque, and is also related to pistol kiss which is also very Devil Fruitesque. All of those are related to her charming people, so unless people are suggesting that those were all actually her using Haki, then they must be her DF and therefore not Haki forcing people to bend to her will.
Which part of his translations said your born with it?
Again, just for the record I wasn't trying to refute your statements, and it was just a bad sentence I threw in there. None of the translations said you were born with it (a specific color, that is), I just find that to be the most likely given:
- Differences in abilities seen so far. Maybe.
- "King" Haki being so incredibly rare.
- Possible connection to Mantra. Mantra being inborn in some cases.
To clarify, I do not think whatever powers Haki might have (if any) are unattainable by any given person just because they were born with a different "color" (were this the case). Only that different people have different strengths, and that the "color" or type of Haki you might have could be inborn. This in turn maps out what strengths you might have, with 'Color of the King' Haki being the most rare and most powerful. HOWEVER, this is just my POV and basic theory right now, and not all of it I really believe; I am merely suggesting for the time being. For the most part I plan on waiting to see what happens.[/hide]
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Only the whole "Hancock said she hasn't mastered it" thing. It feels disjointed having it say it that way. I'm not saying it's wrong just that if it were translated "He hasn't mastered it yet" sounds more grammatically correct and follows the fact that she was talking about Luffy having the King's Haki.
Though, reading it again, it could just be her thinking it out loud rather than continuing the original line of thought. Hm…
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Though, reading it again, it could just be her thinking it out loud rather than continuing the original line of thought. Hm…
Since the dialog bubble is wavering that is why we* think she is referring to herself.
*If noone agrees, then by "we" I mean: me, myself, and I.
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OK, finally got my fix after 2 weeks, so I think I'll toss my hat in this.
First off, slightly disappointed that the Boa sisters weren't outright crushed after that cakewalk of a panther. I suppose it's necessary for Luffy to learn about Haki, and the only way for Luffy to learn something is to fight it and figure it out in mid battle (see Soru). However, every second these snakes get either continued admiration or consiousness is another second I spend screaming "FINISH THEM!".
Bringing past logic into this, I believe Gear 2nd and 3rd by themselves should be enough to finish them. Luffy said it best to Satori in The Ordeal of Balls:
It's pretty neat how you can predict our moves and all…. but that doesn't mean anything if you can't DODGE them!
Knowledge of something is only relevant if it's able to be applied. We already know that Gear 2nd & 3rd have the capability to break through a "Tekkai", and if Luffy can pull off enough speed, dodging will be difficult, if not impossible. Best case scenario - we get a move I've been dreaming of ever since Luffy revealed Gear 2nd = " 'JET' Hanabi!" (Fireworks).
There's no need for Luffy to apply Haki yet. At his level of awareness, it's only good for knocking out underlings at random times. If and when Luffy ever learns how to apply it to his attacks, he'll introduce them in his rematch with either Aokiji, Kizaru, or Sentomaru.
And that I got. Love pissed off Luffy and the inderect crew references. Maybe the next one will be akin to:
Amazons: "Tell us the truth! Will you ever use our secret 'Haki' techniques without our permission?!"
Luffy: "(Dammit! I can't lie to them! I sure wish Usopp was here!)"
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@LC:
Knowledge of something is only relevant if it's able to be applied. We already know that Gear 2nd & 3rd have the capability to break through a "Tekkai", and if Luffy can pull off enough speed, dodging will be difficult, if not impossible. Best case scenario - we get a move I've been dreaming of ever since Luffy revealed Gear 2nd = " 'JET' Hanabi!" (Fireworks).
Yes!!! I want to see that move too! Kill two birds with one stone…or in this case, two snakes with one move!
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Luffy doesn't 'just have this' he demonstrated it against the flying fish rider's as well, it's clear that Red Hair has this same Haki, and Oda has given us indicators in its regards since it was significant enough that Whitebeard even commented on it.
Additionally, the collision of Haki is almost certainly what explains the strange phenomenon that occured when Whitebeard crossed swords with Shanks.
That is to say there was so much power involved that it split the sky.
This king's haki has been demonstrated as early as the beginning of the series when Shanks scared away the sea monster that took his arm, and is in fact, nothing new. The only thing 'new' about it, is that it's now finally coming into the spotlight and being confirmed.
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The problem is that even with gear 2 and possibly gear 3, haki seems capable of neutralizing physical attacks. If you look at the sumo guy's fight with luffy it's very similar, the neutralized physical attacks, luffy taking actual damage, etc. It's clear that the sumo uses Haki as well, and that Luffy needs to learn it in this (hopefully) mini-arc to deal with that fatty (also explains his ability to move extremely quickly, etc) later on.
I really doubt the two won't see each other again.
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Soapbox, add to the fact that they're hinting that Mantra is probably a part of Haki in this chapter. We've been showed aspects of Haki constantly in the series so far.
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I like the fact that Luffy think about Margaret. Shes been getting a hell of a lot more screens pans in this arc. So either Oda is setting up the red carpet and ready to pull it from under us or he actually is gonna add her to the crew.
Like I said before. I'm sure we'll see more of her combat skills after this arc. Or to speed things up a bit, she show it off here.
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! Money Ambition?! Nami's Haki?
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This Haki thing reminds me to bring back what Straw Hat Pirates' Ambitions:
1. Luffy - The greatest pirate - Pirate King
2. Zoro - greatest swordsman
3. Nami - draw all the maps - the path of a greatest navigator
4. Ussop - the bravest man of the sea - path to conquer fear
5. Sanji - to find all blue - the best place where cook can find all kind of fishes
6. Chopper - find the cure on all illness - the path of a greatest doctor
7. Robin - To know the entire history - the path of a greatest Archeologist/Historian
8. Franky - to make a ship that can ride every part of the sea - the path of a greatest shipwright
9. Brooke - his will to see Laboon - the greatest promise.I think haki is affected by the will/determination of man to do.
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Pretty cool chapter.
I just hope this Haki thing isn't gonna become some kind of Ki deal.
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I think haki is affected by the will/determination of man to do.
It's almost as if that's what the word means…
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Anybody actually think that Nami has been using some form of Ambition all this time? Jekyll's post made me think and it seems as if Nami can bend the weather to her bidding. If I remember correctly, none of Usopp's intentions for the Clima-Tact were to control the weather, they were just something that Nami improvised. Perhaps Nami has the "Color of Weather" or something.
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覇王色の覇気 - oda used color to catogarize haki is suggesting haki is a aura rather than ambition.
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I just always thought of it as an aura named Ambition.