Is Zoro the First Mate?
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Nami on the other hand, is only leader when it comes to weather, etc; that's because she's the only one who knows how to handle it, as the rightful position as the navigator. On the other hand, she can't possibly be first mate because she's weak when it comes to tough situations at Usopp/Enies Lobby, etc. And also lacking physical strength.
Since when did being able to kick ass become a requirement for firstmate?
Nami is t he one who manages EVERY aspect of the strawhat's daily lives and tells everyone what to do. SHe's the one always next to Luffy planning things out and helping him decide what to do while Zoro sleeps or argues with Sanji. Regardless of actual position, if Zoro even has one, Nami acts more like a firstmate than any of the other characters. -
think Usopp is the cannoneer/inventor rather then quartermaster. Nami kinda fills the spot of quartermaster )or Sanji as he buys the food.)
I dont see Usopp filling the quartermaster spot in any way.
Oh andd btw. use the```
tag to get correct spaceings without too much fiddeling... -
It seems pretty pointless to appoint the crewmembers what role you "think" they should be in. I mean, would anyone have guessed Usopp as Sniper? Many ppl still call him "the handyman" or "shipwright" because they don't know his role. Luffy appoints them to a position and unless he officially called Zoro the firstmate, Zoro is the only strawhat without an official role.
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It was never officialy stated that Zoro is First Mate, and I won't call him that even though I agree that he's:
-Luffy's first crewmate
-second best fighter
-often in charge when Luffy isn't around (and good at it, too)
-called 'first mate' by 80% of fans (who are prepared to defend their assumption with a fervor worthy of a better cause) -
In Grand Adventure's manual it lists Zoro's rank as the swordsman (which I find odd as a position) and Usopp as the marksman. Then again this is the English version, so what does it matter?
However for the reasons people mentioned, especially Ivotas, I do believe Zoro to be the first mate. Also, I just looked through the Viz manga of Volume one and Luffy never calls Zoro his first mate however in narration refers to him as "First Crewman" and the chapter is called "Number One" which of course refer to him as the first joining but seriously, how does that not double for being a first mate?
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Because using that logic, whoever gets hired after the President takes office is considered the vice president. First Mate is a specific position, just because you're the first person to join doesn't mean you're automatically awarded it.
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You forget the part where this is a story and not real life. Things happen metaphorically such as a first mate joining first. Nami, who acts like a 2nd mate or 3rd in command, joining 2nd.
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i don´t think that the first mate position exist in the strawhat pirates.
i think it´s because luffy has such a little group that they don´t need such a distribution, not like whitebeard or shanks (they have a lot of pirates; few strong people who are first and second mates or whatever and than normal pirates without any special strenght, weaklings who have no power)
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I don't think that proving that Zoro is or not the First mate will affect at all his role in the Manga.
The Strawhats are more like a family than an actual pirate crew, so it's not a surprise that Zoro, being one of the more mature, sometimes acts as the one who guides the others trough situations that they can't handle by themselves for a number of reasons. Just look back at the UsoppVSLuffy chapters. It was Zoro who helped Luffy to make up his mind about fighting Usopp, and also the one who made the others understand more the feelings of Luffy as a captain, so you could say that at the end he's more of a big brother than an actual second boss of sorts for them.
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If you're counting which StawHats have taken charge, most of you are forgetting Usopp. Just the latest Funimation episode showed you even though Zoro, and Luffy were present, Usopp was in charge.
You alsi have to remember that alot of the Straw Hats fit multiply roles,
Zoro: Swordsmen, First-Mate
Nami: Navigator, First-Mate, Doctor(Now Chopper)
Usopp: Sharp-Shooter, Weapons Expert, Shipwright(Now Franky)
Sanji: Cook
Chopper: Doctor, Translator(Animals)
Robin: Archaeologist
Franky: Shipwright, Weapons Expert
(Other/Possible StrawHats)
Brook: Musician, Swordsmen
Carue: Transportation
Vivi: N/a -
If you're counting which StawHats have taken charge, most of you are forgetting Usopp. Just the latest Funimation episode showed you even though Zoro, and Luffy were present, Usopp was in charge.
You alsi have to remember that alot of the Straw Hats fit multiply roles,
Zoro: Swordsmen, First-Mate
Nami: Navigator, First-Mate, Doctor(Now Chopper)
Usopp: Sharp-Shooter, Weapons Expert, Shipwright(Now Franky)
Sanji: Cook
Chopper: Doctor, Translator(Animals)
Robin: Archaeologist
Franky: Shipwright, Weapons Expert
(Other/Possible StrawHats)
Brook: Musician, Swordsmen
Carue: Transportation
Vivi: N/aI don't consider swordsman an actual position.
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Oh, I forgot. Chopper also fills the "emergency rations" position, according to Sanji.
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What about Potato Sack?
Let's face it, he does nothing but eat, sleep and train. In fact, I think the whole "Zoro's the first mate" originated from a fight where Zoro fans had to made up that to defend his character from people who pointed out how useless he was as an actual pirate on a ship.
At least Luffy has the doubt of being the Captain…
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@Kitsune::
I don't consider swordsman an actual position.
It matters with me, I think it does if you have 1(or 2 at most) but if you're part of a large group and majority of them use swords, then it shouldn't be.
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It matters with me, I think it does if you have 1(or 2 at most) but if you're part of a large group and majority of them use swords, then it shouldn't be.
"Swordsman" isn't much of a job description. Pirate ships don't necessarily need a guy who knows how to use a sword on board. Believe it or not, guns are usually more effective. Besides, Zoro does Bushido. I might agree with you a bit more if he actually had a cutlass.
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Zoro is the gardener ;)
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"Swordsman" isn't much of a job description. Pirate ships don't necessarily need a guy who knows how to use a sword on board. Believe it or not, guns are usually more effective. Besides, Zoro does Bushido. I might agree with you a bit more if he actually had a cutlass.
Sorry btw, I didn't mean like I was trying to say fact. I should've worded it. For me if the crew has 1 or 2 swordsmen, then its okay for a position.
Aceburner, whats your thoughts on "Sharpshooter"?
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Sorry btw, I didn't mean like I was trying to say fact. I should've worded it. For me if the crew has 1 or 2 swordsmen, then its okay for a position.
Aceburner, whats your thoughts on "Sharpshooter"?
Well, It could be a valid position, I suppose. Cannon operation is pretty important in sea battles. I think Usopp also serves as lookout sometimes, though.
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Vivi: N/a
What? Random Kidnapp victim isn't good enough for you?
whats your thoughts on "Sharpshooter"?
If the translation I read can be trusted Luffy actually called Usopp the Sharpshooter right before Baratie (when he blew up the rock with Johnny and Yusaku [or however you spell his damn name])
and everyone was surprised that Luffy had brought him on without a position already
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"Swordsman" isn't much of a job description. Pirate ships don't necessarily need a guy who knows how to use a sword on board. Believe it or not, guns are usually more effective.
Not by shonen logic, guns are like the least effective thing in One Piece.
Zoro can be their ship guard.
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Well, It could be a valid position, I suppose. Cannon operation is pretty important in sea battles. I think Usopp also serves as lookout sometimes, though.
Thanks, I was somewhat expecting you to say that it isn't one either, similar to the reasons why Swordsmen isn't.
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@VL7:
Not by shonen logic, guns are like the least effective thing in One Piece.
That's because Batman hacked One Piece. Don't ask me how he did it, but it's the only explanation as to why they're next to useless.
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Zoro is suppose to be Luffy's "champion" and/or "partner"… I don't know anywhere outside of english translations he is called a First Mate. Its amazing how many times this comes up as an argument on wikipedia, I'll say that much. I guess you can read it as "first mate" due to the nature of how Luffy's says it.
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@Kitsune::
Swordsman is the dumbfan crew position, but his REAL POSITION is First Mate.
It's exact the other way around. He simply is a swordsman, not more. On the Going Merry, he was the idiot who had to weigh the anchor. For the first mate he would be way to stupid (which he is).
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what the hell kinda discussion is this zoro is obviously the first mate.
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I would consider Zoro First mate. Officially, no. Technically, yes. If Somehow something happened to Luffy, Zoro would take charge and probably Nami would be first mate.
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It's exact the other way around. He simply is a swordsman, not more. On the Going Merry, he was the idiot who had to weigh the anchor. For the first mate he would be way to stupid (which he is).
Yeah cause the Captain is a Rocket Scientist.
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Yeah cause the Captain is a Rocket Scientist.
Just because he acts a little childish and has no general knowledge doesn't mean Luffy is an idiot. He proved more than once in the past that he made the right desicisions in the right situations.
Zorro can't even follow a simple instruction like "Head south" or "Use the right door" and stuff.
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luffy is more than sure the accepted capt
n…when he want
s something the other will follow him(also when they are against it)...also hes getting sometimes kicked or hit by his nakamas but thats cause they
re all friends..their isnt really a hierarchy ...they are all friends who could say what they think or whatever ,but at the end they will follow luffy
s instructions..they know he isnt the cleverst capt
n but cause of his feelings to his nakama he wont lose them and the SH know that and trust their capt
n without a single doubt.....so in the SH-crew their aren
t really positions on the ship...like i said they
re friends who help each other where ever they could...
luffy said once that he cant fulfill his dream without his nakamas cause he can
t do anything..(like navigation,sharpshooting,cooking whatever)
and so everyone on the ship does what he or she could do the best so that the crew will survive the GL
only "positions" who could be called so are
smutje---sanji
doc---chopper
shipwright---franky
navygator----nami
sharpshooter\canon expert---usopparchaeologist---robin(i mean thats not even a traditionell position on a pirateship)
musician----(also not rly a position...can`t they make music togeather...)brook(when he will join)zorro is just to see as luffy
s ally...he travels with him as a friend and also to fulfill his dream...and luffy and he decided to reach their goal togeather... but in such szenes like when usopp leave the crew we saw which important role zoro has at the ship....he wants to have a clear order UNDER LUFFY....he accepted him as capt
n and he is one of his nakamas...not rly his first mate
he is the second strongest so far on the ship and has the second biggest dream...all that points us to see him in a high position on the ship....but liked i say there isn`t a "real" order.....:happy: -
Just because he acts a little childish and has no general knowledge doesn't mean Luffy is an idiot. He proved more than once in the past that he made the right desicisions in the right situations.
Zorro can't even follow a simple instruction like "Head south" or "Use the right door" and stuff.
Luffy couldn't head north when he was suposed to stop Kuro's crew.
Luffy and Zoro have to be dense, but also have proven time to time that they are level headed too. Its not really fair to call Zoro stupid, and not Luffy too, and vise versa.
@Don:
l
musician–--(also not rly a position...can`t they make music togeather...)brook(when he will join)I've seen some insanely obsessed Pirate sites that actually list "Muscian" as one of the job needed, after Cooper(Barrel Maker) and Powder Monkey.
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As many have already said, Zoro's never been officially labeled as the first mate. In One Piece Yellow, though, the following comment is made in Zoro's profile (p. 46):
ルフィを信じ、まっすぐに仲間と接するのがゾロ!一味の副船長的ともいえる、頼もしい存在である。
Zoro believes in Luffy and is bound to his comrades without exception! You could say he's like a first mate to the crew, and has a reliable presence.
On the same page, Yellow references events that fit with this description, including Zoro's willingness to follow Luffy's order not to fight at Mocktown, his direction of the crew at Enies Lobby, and his speech about Usopp rejoining at Water Seven. Take from all that what you will. Personally, I've always thought that Zoro was the best fit for first mate, but I don't think Luffy will ever directly label anyone in his crew that way – it doesn't seem like his style, and they already have a respect for each other's judgments and talents, so what's the point? But who knows, maybe the New World will change some things...
Also: Paging quickly through the book, Yellow also suggests that Nami might be captain-like (”裏船長”的) on page 59. This is strictly in terms of her ability to navigate and command the ship, I think, though I haven't translated the whole thing out.
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The real First Mate is Nami.
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Just because he acts a little childish and has no general knowledge doesn't mean Luffy is an idiot. He proved more than once in the past that he made the right desicisions in the right situations.
Zorro can't even follow a simple instruction like "Head south" or "Use the right door" and stuff.
And Luffy can't tell Sogeking is Usopp.
Get a better argument.
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As many have already said, Zoro's never been officially labeled as the first mate.
You know, you don´t have to be officially labeled first mate in order to play the role. At least not in a group this small. A crew of six or seven times as much members would be in bigger need of a hierarchic structure and require someone to be labeled as first and second mate.
What matters is not whether Zoro is labeled as first mate or not, but that he fits this role perfectly. At least for a crew that´s based on Luffy as the captain. In Arabasta, Jaya and three times in Water 7 Zoro has displayed to have exactly what it takes to lead the crew in a way worthy of Luffy´s own philosophy. It´s this actions that make him a first mate and not if Luffy would say "I wan´t you as my first mate".
Remember that Usopp joined the crew because he was friends with Luffy, not because he wanted him as his cannonier. That field of activity came later once he already was part of the crew. Same counts for Zoro, only that it doesn´t have to be spoken out.
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@Lobster:
He's not just his first mate, he's the Second Capitan. Like Jango was to Kuro.
I agree completely.
Swordsman isn't a a posistion on a ship generally. So most likely that's a posistion made up by the fans. :P
so no, Zoro is the first mate NOT the "swordsman" and I hate to say this but having that gay ass skeleton as a crewmember proves that. (( I hope he falls in the ocean damnit.))
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I always viewed him as the First Mate. He's (arguably) the second strongest crew member, and is looked up to for instruction (even by Nami) in extreme situations.
And holy crap this has been discussed to death.
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Technically Luffy/Zoro/Nami are all officers. Well according to wiki. But if they act like officers is debatable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_%28nautical%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_mate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Mate
I still want Luffy to to get mad and command the Strawhat's to throw someone off his ship. And right before they do the person apologizes and Luffy tells them to bring them back.
I also thought it would have been funny to see Luffy punishing everyone in the IH arc. But I'm getting off topic.
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@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
Just think of how Sanji would react if he HAD to listen to Zoro.
We don't have to imagine it, it's already happened several times, and in those situations, Sanji generally mutters something about disliking being told what to do by Zoro, but then does what he's told to do.
And then there was that moment just before Usopp returned to the crew, where Sanji actually decided to side with Zoro instead of Nami (but of course he did so very politely, so that Nami wouldn't be offended)
@Ao:
Nami is t he one who manages EVERY aspect of the strawhat's daily lives and tells everyone what to do. SHe's the one always next to Luffy planning things out and helping him decide what to do while Zoro sleeps or argues with Sanji. Regardless of actual position, if Zoro even has one, Nami acts more like a firstmate than any of the other characters.
I dunno, I tend to think that it's more about what's done in the captain's absence than in the captain's presence that determines a first mate, but I could be wrong about that …
It was never officialy stated that Zoro is First Mate, and I won't call him that even though I agree that …
Agreed. :)
@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
"Zoro's the first mate" originated from a fight where Zoro fans had to made up that to defend his character from people who pointed out how useless he was as an actual pirate on a ship.
At least Luffy has the doubt of being the Captain…Useless? I think there's at least 100 dead Baroque Works agents who might disagree with that statement. How far into the Grand Line would the Mugiwara have gone, I wonder, without him?
"…reliable presence ..."
Thanks for the translation blendy.
"Reliable presence" – I like that. It sums Zoro up well.
He's not perfect, but he's dependable.What matters is not whether Zoro is labeled as first mate or not, but that he fits this role perfectly. At least for a crew that´s based on Luffy as the captain. In Arabasta, Jaya and three times in Water 7 Zoro has displayed to have exactly what it takes to lead the crew in a way worthy of Luffy´s own philosophy. It´s this actions that make him a first mate and not if Luffy would say "I wan´t you as my first mate".
Remember that Usopp joined the crew because he was friends with Luffy, not because he wanted him as his cannonier. That field of activity came later once he already was part of the crew. Same counts for Zoro, only that it doesn´t have to be spoken out.
Agreed.
And I've always felt that one of the main points of the chapter called "Pride" (in which Usopp returns) was that it was juxtaposing the ease of dreaming about being a First Mate with the hard work of actually being a "First Mate" (if not in name, than in action) – that both the dreamer and the doer have "pride", but that the pride of the dreamer is unfounded and needs to be broken down so that he can then transform himself into a man of action, too. -
Cap'n- Luffy
first mate- Zoro
Second mate- Sanji
Navigator- NamiSimple.
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You guys are fucking retarded. This is an anime! Nothing has to be concrete or official. Zoro acts like a first mate and so does Nami. GET OVER IT!
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You guys are fucking retarded. This is an anime! Nothing has to be concrete or official. Zoro acts like a first mate and so does Nami. GET OVER IT!
Ah, but debating endlessly about an already worn-out topic gives us a way to pass time between now and the next spoiler.
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Zoro is the gardener ;)
nope that's technically Nami, she takes care of the orange/tangerine groves. :)
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@Seraku:
nope that's technically Nami, she takes care of the orange/tangerine groves. :)
I thought Robin mentioned something about gardening when she saw that Sunny's deck has real turf.
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@_Meh_:
I thought Robin mentioned something about gardening when she saw that Sunny's deck has real turf.
Are you implying that Zoro is a woman?
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How did you even get that from what Meh said LPS?
seriously explain step by step.
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How did you even get that from what Meh said LPS?
seriously explain step by step.
Garden - Who?
Garden - Nami?
Garden - Robin?
Garden - Woman's job?
Zoro - care taker a la' garden
Zoro - Woman
Zoro - disqualified from being First MatieThe combination of all those thought processes could only reach one conclusion.
Sadly they are all wrong and Zoro is the Second Capitan. Making Nami "Chart Man", leaving the caretaker of the garden to be none other then Sanji. The purveyors of foods.
Coincidence?
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I'm starting to think that your problem isn't thinking too little, but you don't know when to stop thinking and just carry on rambeling.
All those posts made about gardening were made by different people, so there is no line of thought like you made it seem like. Noone implied what you thought they implied when you put all the pieces together, flipped them upside down, twisted, then turned off the lights and tried too look at them through a funhouse mirror.
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Although the effects of recreational drug use do interest me, I'm much too chickenshit to actually use them myself. Thanks to Lobster Pot-Sticker's posts, however, I can fully enjoy the changes to my perceptions of reality without fear of flashbacks or DEA reprisals.