This post is deleted!
Chapter 456 "Demon from the Frozen Land" Discussion
-
This post is deleted!
-
Yes, the question… well, all we can say now is that Robin didn't expect that question ("Why did you ask him that?"), the answer made Franky cry and both are somehow impressed by Brooke's reaction. I think the question was about friendship or manly honor... because these are both topics wich make Franky cry.
My guess is: "What will you do after you got your shadow back?" (possible answer: something about his dream or "Get all the other shadows back, too." -
But isn´t that something every conqueror does?
Not every pirate is a conqueror… Arlong is acctually the first pirate i heard about that did that (croc only went for one island afaik)... I just made a connection it has no real meaning.
Hiso: The conversation doesnt really give me the feel they meet for the first time since Ryuuma is indicateing that he tossed Brook out.
The (re)introduction seems to be a plotdevice to make Brook confirm that Ryuuma is his shadow for anyone that missed that. -
@ Buuhan: I don't really see why Brooke should have to gain skin to join the crew. I mean, isn't his whole draw the "gentleman skeleton" thing?
Though, I would like to see what Brooke looked like before he decomposed.
-
Not every pirate is a conqueror… Arlong is acctually the first pirate i heard about that did that (croc only went for one island afaik)... I just made a connection it has no real meaning.
We´re not talking about pirates right now, we are talking about conquerors. And everybody that wants to create his own empire by overthrowing new terrain is a conqueror per definition.
Arlong may be a pirate or started as a pirate but his ambitions of taking over terrain goes further then a pirates ambition who´s just plundering here and there and sails around the world, not knowing where the wind will take him.
-
Chill i only made a connection because those 2 are the only conquerors (that aquired more then one island) we know of in the world of OP… =P
-
Don´t need to tell me to chill. I was just explaining the difference between the ambitions of a conqueror and a pirate and correcting you on that one. If you take that as a personal offense then the fault is at your side and not mine. :P
-
oz appears to be a full fleaged giant compare to moria who is a big man
-
But really, for Brooke to still join after all this, I honestly believe he's gonna have to gain flesh. Which I don't know how'd this happen as it rotted away.
Why does he need flesh? Because he would cause a ruckus when other people then his crewmates see him? In that case there´s two options to deal with it:
1. He could cover the face with a mask, the hands with gloves and wear bones with clothes.
2. He could tell that he´s wearing a costume. -
So what was the question that Franky asked? and will we ever find out? and is it important or stupid?
No doubt, "What's the promise you have to keep to your dead crewmates?"
This will no doubt be his backstory and dream. Hence his crying. We'll all follow suit in a few weeks/months I'm sure.
-
With regards to Brook needing flesh…
Why?
Did Chopper need a disguise? No. After he left Drum Island, nobody was terrified of him anymore. He was just seen as a Tanuki-Gorrila-Deer creature. I'm sure Brook will be able to gain acceptance wherever they travel...IF he joins.
-
I think that Brook's goal on Thriller Bark is not only to reclaim his shadow, but to reclaim the corpses of his friends,(I assume that Moria took them), and then bury them to bring their souls to peace or something of that nature.
Oh, and what's to say that Brook won't use Ussop's Sogeking mask, and then be given a bounty by default, while Ussop stays clean?
That makes sense if Oda still wants to pull the "Ussop will never have a direct bounty" thing. -
No doubt, "What's the promise you have to keep to your dead crewmates?"
This will no doubt be his backstory and dream. Hence his crying. We'll all follow suit in a few weeks/months I'm sure.
well, that would be most plausible. Sad moment. Its just what Robin said about not expecting it. Would Robin expect that?
I think it'll have to be either that question or how he died. I cant think of a question that wouldn't be asked more than how did you die. It's awkward.
-
Sanctum: brook lost his shadow 5 years ago right? he has been on the sea for "decades" and his body when he found it was already bones.
somehow i have doubt that Moria and hogback got any use for the piles of bones that is Brooks crewmates. they talk about combining strong shadows with strong "flesh".
Most likely Brooks dream lies outside of Florian Triangle. (which crew was it that brought Laboon the whale to GL btw? has that crew been ruled out already?)
-
I highly doubt Brooke will get a flashback. We already know what happened to him at Thriller Bark and his reasons for fighting Ryuma. We get to see him fight Ryuma this upcoming chapter (Hopefully)!
Was it ever confirmed that this Arc is a Mini arc???
-
which crew was it that brought Laboon the whale to GL btw? has that crew been ruled out already?
They were around when Crocus was a young man. Yohki Pirates I recall. While TECHNICALLY it could be within the realm of possibility, I don't recall the ship he was riding having a similar mark to the Yohki Pirate Crew.
I highly doubt Brooke will get a flashback. We already know what happened to him at Thriller Bark and his reasons for fighting Ryuma.
Who said anything about Thriller Bark? I'm talking about him and his crew.
-
which crew was it that brought Laboon the whale to GL btw? has that crew been ruled out already?
They were around when Crocus was a young man. Yohki Pirates I recall. While TECHNICALLY it could be within the realm of possibility, I don't recall the ship he was riding having a similar mark to the Yohki Pirate Crew.
Actually, they're Gol D. Rogers and co. pirates..
-
Who said anything about Thriller Bark? I'm talking about him and his crew.
Well, information was already given about Brooke and his crew being destroyed by Moria. Unless you want Oda to get detailed and talk about the name of Brooke's crew and stuff like that?
-
Well, information was already given about Brooke and his crew being destroyed by Moria. Unless you want Oda to get detailed and talk about the name of Brooke's crew and stuff like that?
It never said that Moria destroyed his old crew. He only came to Thriller Bark 5 years ago for the first time. He's been a skeleton and stuck alone on the seas for decades.
-
Actually, they're Gol D. Rogers and co. pirates..
Actually they're not. OP Blue pg. 58. They're Yohki's crew. The Rhumbar Pirates from West Blue. It's been a while since I thought about them so I incorrectly labeled the crew as sharing the Captain's name, but regardless, it's them.
For shits and giggles I took a long hard look at Yohki's jolly roger and the one that was on Brooke's ship. Since we don't CLEARLY see it, it's possible that it's the same one, but what little we do see of it, it doesn't match up to the one in Blue.
Well, information was already given about Brooke and his crew being destroyed by Moria. Unless you want Oda to get detailed and talk about the name of Brooke's crew and stuff like that?
BMF took the words out of my mouth.
-
@B.M.F.:
It never said that Moria destroyed his old crew. He only came to Thriller Bark 5 years ago for the first time. He's been a skeleton and stuck alone on the seas for decades.
Ok, now I'm just a tad confused, this means my theory still stands, right?
I think it's totally possible for Moria to be holding the corpses of Brook's nakama. Especially if they had strength of the same caliber as Brook, or what's to say that some of the General Zombies aren't his nakama? Maybe Captain John is actually Brook's captain?
speculation -
Ok, now I'm just a tad confused, this means my theory still stands, right?
I think it's totally possible for Moria to be holding the corpses of Brook's nakama. Especially if they had strength of the same caliber as Brook, or what's to say that some of the General Zombies aren't his nakama? Maybe Captain John is actually Brook's captain?
speculationIt still stands if Moria can use skeletons, but personally i find that unlikely since they keep talking about the "flesh" all the time.
(or if Brook was tossed into the sea and lost his flesh faster then that of his friends… but i dont see how he would reach the surface again if that was the case)
Greg: Maybe the crew lost a bunch of DBFs? ^^ (Most farfetched theory of the year nominee: <- that one)
-
I would find it hilarious if Zombie 900 was utterly and completely incompetent.
And he decides to walk through a wall and go somewhere whilst Moria and his crew try to suppress him but get tossed aside.
Then there are the rest of the Strawhats, the zombified strawhats, Moria and rampant 900.
Hypothetical.
-
With regards to Brook needing flesh…
Why?
Did Chopper need a disguise? No. After he left Drum Island, nobody was terrified of him anymore. He was just seen as a Tanuki-Gorrila-Deer creature. I'm sure Brook will be able to gain acceptance wherever they travel...IF he joins.
A walking, talking "tanuki" is not that much of a big deal as a walking, talking skeleton. The difference should already be clear by the Strawhats first reactions after they´ve met Brook. Except for the idiot Luffy nobody wanted him on the crew first. Why do you think is that if his appearance is not exceptional beyond exceptional?
Giving the character a chance to be heard as Franky did in this chapter or the crew did in chapter 443, (page 12 is the best example here) can change peoples opinion about him. But in order to do so they need to be willing to hear him out first and so far they didn´t listen to him on free will but because they were forced. In this chapter because the circumstances required it to hear Brook out and back at Sunny because Luffy wanted him on board.
Now if the Strawhats themselves react that way by seeing Brook, what do you think will be the reaction all the other people out there who would see a walking skeleton? Seeing Chopper is only like "WTF, the tanuki speaks", seeing brook is "a skeleton, run for your lives". That difference should be evident actually.
-
Now if the Strawhats themselves react that way by seeing Brook, what do you think will be the reaction all the other people out there who would see a walking skeleton? Seeing Chopper is only like "WTF, the tanuki speaks", seeing brook is "a skeleton, run for your lives". That difference should be evident actually.
If people can accept the giant hairy menace that's Man Beast Chopper, I'm sure Oda will come up with a creative way to let Brooke assimilate into the 'real world' when necessary, mask or otherwise.
-
I have no doubts that Oda will come up with a creative way to assimilate him for these situations. I just said, that there would be a need for that because a skeleton is a league of its own.
-
But the Strawhats aren't the only ones who entered the Florian Triangle… just a theory:
The persons on the islands before the Triangle are afraid of ghosts and skeletons, because they're untypicial for this part of the Grandline. But what about the part after the Florian Triangle? I bet the persons on the islands after the Florian Triangle have a completely different opinion about walking talking skeletons. Well, I think the strawhats aren't the only ones who talked to Brooke... and these "other" persons travel to the next islands, maybe Fishman island, and say "Guess what, the skeletons in the Florian Triangle are pretty nice!"
What I want to say is, that the islands after the Triangle probably heard that skeletons aren't that evil. -
Now if the Strawhats themselves react that way by seeing Brook, what do you think will be the reaction all the other people out there who would see a walking skeleton? Seeing Chopper is only like "WTF, the tanuki speaks", seeing brook is "a skeleton, run for your lives". That difference should be evident actually.
Their reactions are imo amplified becasue of ghost stories, the spooky fog, the really spooky ship and possibly by the barrel trap.
A skeleton sailing a ghost ship is hell of a lot scarier then a skeleton sipping tea on thousand sunny next to a talking raindeer. The setting in which he is seen does alot imo.
If he is seen walking around with the strawhats people might ask them whats going on before assuming he is a real ghost/skeleton… especially in the grandline where there are ample number of devilfruit users.
-
The persons on the islands before the Triangle are afraid of ghosts and skeletons, because they're untypicial for this part of the Grandline. But what about the part after the Florian Triangle? I bet the persons on the islands after the Florian Triangle have a completely different opinion about walking talking skeletons.
Not if they´ve never met neither Brook nor Thriller Bark.
Well, I think the strawhats aren't the only ones who talked to Brooke… and these "other" persons travel to the next islands, maybe Fishman island, and say "Guess what, the skeletons in the Florian Triangle are pretty nice!"
Actually judging by Brooks reaction the Strawhats were the only ones he actually ever talked with after 5 years. We have no reasons to assume that anyone who successfully left the Florian Triangle ever met him OR Thriller Bark. Before the Strawhats entered Brook seems to have powered the strongest zombie so far (Absalom and Perona don´t count as zombies). And in combination that he knows the weakness of a zombie there is an urgent need to get him off Thriller Bark.
But all the other zombies (even the General Zombies) don´t strike as having the strongest shadow planted into their body (they are just good at standing up but not as die hard fighters) so I guess that whoever powered them with their shadow is still wandering the forest.
What I want to say is, that the islands after the Triangle probably heard that skeletons aren't that evil.
Even then it doesn´t change a thing. Fear is something that often won´t let itself be controlled by reason. If I´d say that I´m gonna show you a tiger that is completely tame and won´t harm you a bit I guarantee you that you will still be very scared if you see him unchained directly in front of you. And this is the same tiger we are talking about here. If I tell you I own a tame tiger but you meet up with a completely different one then your first guess would be to expect that this one isn´t tame.
Same counts for Brook. Just if (which I seriously doubt) people would say that good skeletons exists, it doesn´t mean that people will immediately be like "hey, that must be a good skeleton" when they see Brook. In fact god or evil doesn´t have anything to do with it. Seeing a walking skeleton alone is what scares the hell out of someone.
Their reactions are imo amplified becasue of ghost stories, the spooky fog, the really spooky ship and possibly by the barrel trap.
A skeleton sailing a ghost ship is hell of a lot scarier then a skeleton sipping tea on thousand sunny next to a talking raindeer. The setting in which he is seen does alot imo.
If he is seen walking around with the strawhats people might ask them whats going on before assuming he is a real ghost/skeleton… especially in the grandline where there are ample number of devilfruit users.
You´re right, the circumstances definitely amplify the fear. No doubts there. But amplifying just means to make something more intense that is already there. If there´s no fear there in the first place then it can´t be amplified. And I´d say that a walking skeleton will scare people.
And being seen on board of the Strawhat´s ship actually isn´t even unscary either. I mean the people in the OP world don´t know the Strawhats like us readers. The recent news about Luffy and cohorts is that 8 of them took down the Judiciary Island and declared war on the World Government. That alone makes them appear as scary people. Now seeing them walking around with a living skeleton certainly isn´t going to do a job to reduce fear.
It might not be the same level as seeing Brook in a cursed sea on a ghost ship, but seeing him with 8 feared pirates certainly isn´t going to make people who don´t know him invite him with open arms.
-
If he is seen walking around with the strawhats people might ask them whats going on before assuming he is a real ghost/skeleton… especially in the grandline where there are ample number of devilfruit users.
I agree, I reckon as you get further along the grandline things like talking skeletons become increasingly commonplace. One of the things I love about One Piece is how, at first, in west blue seeing a df user was something incredible, so far in the grandline its been far less suprising, and in the new world they'll probably be ten-a-penny.
-
I seriously doubt that talking skeletons will become increasingly commonplace. Nothing the Strawhats have or do can be considered commonplace. It starts with the whacky captain and ends with a cyborg for shipwright. Even though there is Machine Island somewhere on the Grand Line I take Franky to be one of a kind and something that they didn´t see even on that island. Same counts for Brook, who actually is beyond exceptional in the story about a ghost island already. I seriously doubt that there will be places where a skeleton is considered more common then here.
The point is, Oda doesn´t let Luffy gather exchangable people. He gives him a crew unlike any other. Nothing about them is common.
-
You´re right, the circumstances definitely amplify the fear. No doubts there. But amplifying just means to make something more intense that is already there. If there´s no fear there in the first place then it can´t be amplified. And I´d say that a walking skeleton will scare people.
And being seen on board of the Strawhat´s ship actually isn´t even unscary either. I mean the people in the OP world don´t know the Strawhats like us readers. The recent news about Luffy and cohorts is that 8 of them took down the Judiciary Island and declared war on the World Government. That alone makes them appear as scary people. Now seeing them walking around with a living skeleton certainly isn´t going to do a job to reduce fear.
It might not be the same level as seeing Brook in a cursed sea on a ghost ship, but seeing him with 8 feared pirates certainly isn´t going to make people who don´t know him invite him with open arms.
True he will still be scary, noone will probably ewver invite him "with open arms" as you say… but i dont really see him as "shit-your-pants" scary when walking around with other people... even if he is with 8 notorious pirates (though Luffy doesnt reallly seem that well known to ordenary inhabitants of islands so far, granted he has only seen "ordenary inhabitants" that could know about his bounty in water 7 since he got over 100M). Brook looses alot of his ghostly "charm" in the company of the living.
And the main point i think is that further along the GL people will have seen wierder stuff then a talking skeleton. At the end of the new world they will probably just dissmiss him for what he is: a devilfruit user.
He will imo probably end up getting similar reactions as chopper, perhaps a bit stronger in the beginning. And allways use Bone/Skull jokes as icebreakers.
-
True he will still be scary, noone will probably ewver invite him "with open arms" as you say… but i dont really see him as "shit-your-pants" scary when walking around with other people... even if he is with 8 notorious pirates (though Luffy doesnt reallly seem that well known to ordenary inhabitants of islands so far, granted he has only seen "ordenary inhabitants" that could know about his bounty in water 7 since he got over 100M). Brook looses alot of his ghostly "charm" in the company of the living.
True he loses a lot but not all of his ghostly charm. Notorious pirates alone are enough to scare people. And if a skeleton is in company of them then he surely has lots of it left. What I´m trying to say is that there is a difference who the livings are that are in company of Brook.
For instance if Brook would be seen with Ninjin, Tamanegi and Piiman then people would certainly take him differently then when they see him with Luffy and cohorts. Don´t underestimate the power of gossip. Seeing Luffy and Brook together can make up such talk "See, that´s Strawhat Luffy, the man that declared war on the WG and destroyed Enies Lobby. And now he even has a skeleton with him. He surely must have made a pact with the devil".
Get what I mean?
And the main point i think is that further along the GL people will have seen wierder stuff then a talking skeleton. At the end of the new world they will probably just dissmiss him for what he is: a devilfruit user.
With a man like Oda I have no doubts that lots of even weirder stuff is going to be revealed. But that doesn´t mean that it will happen on such a level that the protagonists will get commonplace. I mean, in over 300 chapters since Chopper joined, I haven´t seen one single reaction to him in the sort of "I see that quite a lot". He has grown to us readers but in the OP world itself he still is one of a kind.
So I don´t really get why upcoming weird stuff is going to make previous weird stuff more common. Franky is a cyborg. He´s definitely on a different weirdness level then Chopper, but still Chopper is unique as is Franky, as is Brook. No matter what next weird thing is around the corner, those guys are unique and will most certainly not get commonplace in the future (outside of their own crew that is). Everything that we´ve seen in OP stays for that view.
-
Damn rumormills =P Yeah i see what you mean.
So I don´t really get why upcoming weird stuff is going to make previous weird stuff more common. Franky is a cyborg. He´s definitely on a different weirdness level then Chopper, but still Chopper is unique as is Franky, as is Brook. No matter what next weird thing is around the corner, those guys are unique and will most certainly not get commonplace in the future (outside of their own crew that is). Everything that we´ve seen in OP stays for that view.
not common… just get less of a reaction.
People aren't really going to mention "i see that quite alot"... what was CP9's reaction to Chopper? I dont recall them dropping their jaws and rubbing their eyes.. but im too lazy too look it up.
well its all within the range of possibilities. we will just have to see what Oda comes up with... If Brook even joins. (the possibility remains even if i find it really slim)
-
Anyone that has doubts about Brooke joining at this point….I hate to break it to ya' but unless Oda intends to make this arc a tragedy, Brooke is probably joining the ranks.
He's a musician.
He's got brains..... WAIT NO HE DOESN'T!!!!
He's funny as FUCK.
He has a tragic sob-story.
He was able to tear apart the island ship of a Shichibukai by himself.
He can run on water.
He has weak points.
He can move around like a crazy nut.
He has an afro.
Like I said, unless Oda intends to make this a tragic arc, at this point, I think it's safe to assume he's in.
-
People aren't really going to mention "i see that quite alot"… what was CP9's reaction to Chopper? I dont recall them dropping their jaws and rubbing their eyes.. but im too lazy too look it up.
I consider pro- and antagonists are always excluded when I talk about this stuff. I´m meanly talking about general reactions by random peasants. Though all of us know that the Strawhats will find their group of antagonists at each new place they go it is not something all of them purposely are looking for. You know, when you arrive at a new island fighting isn´t the first thing that the entire crew has in mind.
And when you go shopping or are on the lookout for informations you don´t expect to find your next new arch nemesis. That´s what I was talking about. And random peasants are more likely to be met here then antagonists. And they will react differently then secret organisations or gods priests. ;)
-
Today is a boring day so I reread chapter 456 again… and I didn't get something on page 13.
One of the spider mice is talking to Absalom ("Uhm, but the present condition...") ... and it looks like, he's whispering something in his ear. (What does the japanese word under the head of the spider means?) Absalom has this special "........!" reaction and answers "Idiot, tell me earlier! If that's the case, we should be able to contain him."
What are they talking about? I think it's about Brooke, but it looks like they really have some kind of secret weapon...I haven't checked Stephen's script about this... but I'm going to do it right now.
Edit: Checked Stephen's script... they're still talking in the same way. After hearing what the spider mouse said, Absalom isn't worried about Brooke anymore.
-
Could mean anything actually, but my guess is that Absalom has just been informed that now two more people (Robin and Franky) now about how to deal with zombies.
-
Hmm… but when I see Absalom's reaction, I think he just heard some good news and not that there are new dangerous persons like Brooke on the island oo And he's beating the mouse to say "Idiot, I'm worried here and you don't tell me about this advantage!" Maybe the mouse simply said "We saw that Hanauta was walking to Hogback's lab, where Ryuma drinks his tea."
... oh wait, I just had an idea: I think everyone saw that Brooke seems very exhausted when he reached Ryuma... maybe there's something wich weakens him? And the spider mice just reported this to Absalom? Then his answer "If that is the case, we should be able to stop him." sounds really fitting. Hmm... I can't help, but I think it's something about seastones (maybe Oda will really explain what happens when Brooke touches a seastone... maybe his life is slowly sucked up). But that's way too much speculation ^^"
-
Well when I first read it, I thought it was likely something regarding Brooke's condition, considering Absalom's went from worrying about it to thinking it'd be no problem. Though if condition could be substituted with situation, then probably him facing Ryuuma could be it.
-
Oh, I didn't know they were whispering him before he said that.
That's cool.Most would think it's because he was informed Brooke is heading to Ryuuma. There aren't too many choices Absalom couldn't know of from the beginning anyways, and by how this arc went so far I'm tempting to think it's really like that.
btw, I don't think Kairouseki should suck his life. He's of the same case as Luffy [having the DF activated the whole time completely ignored] and the effect should probably be the same too - weakening reguarly.
-
is Brook weakened by the salt he is carrying around? if so that would be pretty weak…
-
Don't think so Gorlom, or else every person in the OP World will have an easy to get, very portable and shape-shifting version of the so-called Kairouseki. Right?
-
well he doesnt seem to be completly exhausted and he has already fought Ryuuma once so its atleast partly because he has been so active.
but i thought the salt he carries may be helping to drain him quicker instead of instantly zapping him like seastone does. (which is why it would be useless in a fight against a DF user)
also stephens script says it needs to be sea distilled salt or something so you cant just mix any acid with any basic and use the resulting salt.
But i agree i dont think it is the salt… (or atleast i hope its not)
-
Of course, it's likely that the mouse reports that Brooke is heading towards Ryuma, but why the whispering? It's not like Oda destroyed the surprise of this fight, because it starts in the same chapter… there must be a reason why we shouldn't hear/read what the mouse said... and my theory is, that it's about Brooke's exhaustion (I don't think it's just a detail to show that Brooke was beaten before).
-
I assumed that the salt works on the zombies because they were created via Devil Fruit, so a bit of DF power was rubbed off on them, and therefore they're weakened by smaller portions of sea. Because I'm pretty sure salt doesn't weaken a regular DF user.
-
Imagine, until now we've only seen Luffy at 50% power because of all the salty meat he stuffs himself with :D
-
But i agree i dont think it is the salt… (or atleast i hope its not)
I'm pretty sure it's not the salt. I remember Oda saying that people with DF powers are also weakened by freshwater. Remember the time Kalifa was in the tub and Nami said that she must be weak?
-
Remember that this entire salt thing isn´t weakening the DF users himself but just nullyfies the effect it has about people who themselves are just victim of the ability. This is at no point the same as if Kairoseki or seawater effects DF users directly.
-
Maybe the legitimate owner is weakened when he is near the zombie that carries his shadow.