Western Comics thread
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It was good, but Hickman really is obsessed with his old white men and hates women.
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@Kaiolino said in Western Comics thread:
It was good, but Hickman really is obsessed with his old white men and hates women.
Oh lord, that's not going to be fun, then. This is my first Hickman comic, so I was just really focused on the Old Man Yaoi.
It sucks that he's obsessed with lionizing old white men, though. Oof.
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If this is your only Hickman cape comic, it will be fine because you won’t notice his repetition. But Fantastic Four (Reed/Doom), Avengers (Steve/Tony), X-Men (Xavier/Magneto), Ultimate Invasion (Howard/Stane) are all about older Great Men discussing, arguing, feuding, etc about their Great Power. Meanwhile, his women fall into three categories: Powerful Mama Bear, Femme Fatale or Stupid Idiot.
In the first issue of this book that is marketed entirely around the Spider-Marriage, MJ only makes about three appearances to be Very Supportive Of Her Man, while the core of the issue is about Jameson’s friendship with Ben Parker, because Hickman needed to get rid of May (woman) and Robbie Robertson (Black man who traditionally fulfills the role of Jameson’s friend and conscience).
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@Kaiolino said in Western Comics thread:
If this is your only Hickman cape comic, it will be fine because you won’t notice his repetition. But Fantastic Four (Reed/Doom), Avengers (Steve/Tony), X-Men (Xavier/Magneto), Ultimate Invasion (Howard/Stane) are all about older Great Men discussing, arguing, feuding, etc about their Great Power. Meanwhile, his women fall into three categories: Powerful Mama Bear, Femme Fatale or Stupid Idiot.
In the first issue of this book that is marketed entirely around the Spider-Marriage, MJ only makes about three appearances to be Very Supportive Of Her Man, while the core of the issue is about Jameson’s friendship with Ben Parker, because Hickman needed to get rid of May (woman) and Robbie Robertson (Black man who traditionally fulfills the role of Jameson’s friend and conscience).
Thanks for pointing that out. I was really focused on the yaoi hype (and more than a little kind to think that we would get more focus on Mary Jane in the next issue), but now that you've pointed out that this is a pattern...fucking hell.
And yeah, doing Robbie in like that and framing him as The Man...Jesus fucking Christ, Hickman.
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I finished reading the first Invincible compendium (Issues 1 to 47) and it was really interesting seeing how the comic compares to the TV show.
I may be biased since I watched the show first, but, overall, I think the show probably does a better job of telling the story, though there are some things the comic does better in terms of pacing. The comic, I feel, rushes things a bit in terms of character development and plot build-up, though I think it does get better about that as it goes on. There are also a lot of instances of blatant exposition dialogue that repeats a lot of things we know already, which I feel had to have been done for the sake of people who were jumping into the comic partway. Oh yeah, and black Amber is a definite improvement over boring whitebread Amber.
Still, reading the comic and experiencing the story again was an enjoyable experience and it was fascinating to see how all the plotlines were shifted around between the comic and TV show. I think they definitely made the right call to switch from Walker to Ottley. Walker's not bad, but Ottley's definitely an improvement over the somewhat stilted beady-eyed character designs.
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Greg Weisman and the gang have a Kickstarter to reprint all the old Gargoyles comics for the 30th Anniversary. (cripes, I'm old)
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dynamiteent/30th-anniversary-disney-gargoyles-collections-are-here?fbclid=IwAR3h1ZpKOYTOsGDjSkqkmDTzjN9YCGGMy8El_qQXFgddYqIfGx-eGvuGmww&ref=bmo5dk&utm_campaign=BK-PD-bmo5dk&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=gargoyles-collections.projectdomino80.comIn hardcover!
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Sabertooh was suuuuuucks.
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I presume you meant “Sabertooth War” but “was sucks” can work too.
That said why is it bad?
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I don’t read comics and don’t follow events as closely but….did they just put Xavier back into a wheelchair after all this time?
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For now he’s only in a wheelchair on a cover.
But with the upcoming relaunch seeming to take its inspiration from TAS, all bets are off.
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Resurrection of Magneto is good, man, so good.
The new Kamala book also hits just right.
Sabertooth war still sucks.Krakoa will live forever.
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@pariston_hill said in Western Comics thread:
Sabertooth war still sucks.
You really don’t like that, not that I blame you. Marvel & DC love doing same old shit.
@Kaiolino said in Western Comics thread:
For now he’s only in a wheelchair on a cover.
But with the upcoming relaunch seeming to take its inspiration from TAS, all bets are off.
Well shit.
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X-Men 97 showrunner/Twitter warrior gets fired right before launch: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/marvel-shocker-x-men-97-creator-beau-demayo-fired-1235850423/
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@Kaiolino
Hah! -
Batman killing Joker would not make him as bad as Joker. But Batman not killing people like Joker makes him just as ineffective as institutions as GCPD and Gotham’s Criminal Justice System at cleaning up crime in Gotham.
Only so many times you can let a mass murderer who kills or maims people even those close to you, constantly get away or bust out of prison. Before the realization sets in you’re not really helping to make the city you’ve sworn to protect FROM PEOPLE LIKE THE JOKER.
I know that’s how many people from fans to the fans who become writers on Batman works sees the character’s mission and mindset. But it’s such bullshit.
Just say you don’t want Batman to kill or have key members of his rogue’s gallery permanently done away with because you need to keep selling books even if it involves redundant plots and ass pulls most of the people reading this stuff are not naive 10 year olds.
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@Time-Control-Magician said in Western Comics thread:
Just say you don’t want Batman to kill or have key members of his rogue’s gallery permanently done away with because you need to keep selling books even if it involves redundant plots and ass pulls most of the people reading this stuff are not naive 10 year olds.
Well this is the reason. But there are watsonian arguments that can be made that aren't the old "if he kills he is the same as them".
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I think I’d be a bit more accepting of the the argument around Batman’s moral code. If Batman wasn’t in turn willing to admonish and fight with other characters willing to do what he won’t do.
If Jason wants to shoot Penguin in the head for valid reasons or Wonder Woman snaps a dude’s neck to save you.
What are you bitching about?
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I think the DCAU handled the Joker best. Trying to turn fish into his one likeness was one thing, but after what he did to Tim, his ass had to go.
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It's such a weird thing to argue about, because Batman doesn't even need to break his "code" and kill the Joker to get rid of him.
Batman's a super smart guy and knows most the other super smart people out there, they could easily design an escape-proof Arkham, or ask Superman to throw the Joker in the Phantom Zone, or get a Green Lantern to drop him off on an uninhabited planet, or any number of non-lethal solutions.But they can't because Joker is too popular and the big comic universes are stuck in an endless story loop.
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To be fair even if any of the above were to happen the writers would bullshit someway to get him out for the aforementioned reasons.
Even one of the Injustice comics handled it well. Bruce kills Joker stopping him from enacting his plan to kill Lois. Bruce gives himself up exposing his identity in the process (all of which happens offscreen). Halfway acknowledges the moral quandary in breaking his code but also acknowledges it was the most logical conclusion given the stakes.
No one turns evil, no one bullshits an excuse to let a deranged serial killer keep running around to keep killing more people.
What if elements aside mostly happy ending.
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@Time-Control-Magician
Consider this: Bruce is rich, he's not used to people don't having the same ideology as him, not used to people not abiding to his views, or generally disagreeing with him. Hence Batman proselytism his code to other heroes. -
@pariston_hill said in Western Comics thread:
Consider this: Bruce is rich,
Oh? Did he get all that money back he lost in Joker War?
he's not used to people don't having the same ideology as him, not used to people not abiding to his views, or generally disagreeing with him.
Well shit he sounds more like the typical rich assholes we take the piss out of.
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@Time-Control-Magician
I've read very like Bat stories so I have no idea on the current wealth of Bruce. But he is bourgeois, always has been. -
Headmaster Magneto? Nice.
Cain on a team? Nice.
But I have no idea on the people on Kate's team besides she and Emma.And if they really go to Krakoa isn't even a country now and sideline the Arakki that's gonna be a problem for me. Which I can assume it will be. So it's more likely than not that I will not follow this rebot.
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X-Men looks good. Lot of big personalities one one team can create some fun dynamics. Mackay’s Avengers is bad though.
Uncanny X-Men is the TAS ‘97 synergy team, not touching that.
Exceptional X-Men… sigh. When will they learn nobody will latch on to new student characters? Especially one where the new characters outnumber the established characters? This will be done by year’s end.
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@Kaiolino said in Western Comics thread:
X-Men looks good. Lot of big personalities one one team can create some fun dynamics. Mackay’s Avengers is bad though.
Uncanny X-Men is the TAS ‘97 synergy team, not touching that.
Exceptional X-Men… sigh. When will they learn nobody will latch on to new student characters? Especially one where the new characters outnumber the established characters? This will be done by year’s end.
You have to introduce new blood every now and again, but yeah it never works when its half the roster or more unless its a whole new team in a whole new book. One of my favorite runs was the late 90's Joe Mad era where we had Canonball, Marrow, Maggot, and Cecelia.... not because of any particular story but just there were some different dynamics at play from usual. Nowadays though they're treated as joke D-stringer trivia questions that no one should like or care about.
I think Armor is the only new student in the last... 30 years? that really caught on and that's mostly down to a really unique visual.
Before that you had Gambit, Jubilee and Bishop in the early 90's.., and even though she's one of my favorites Jubilee probably would have been resigned to "outdated trend bencher" status right next to Dazzler if she hadn't been prominent in the cartoon... and even then she was kind of in the wilderness for a long time when they took away her powers and tried making her a shield agent, a vampire, a parent....
I can't believe they introduced a "Honey Badger" as ANOTHER young female Wolverine copy. Just... why.
(I guess there's also Blink... who was designed to die, became really popular in Age of Appocolypse, then became an Exile... basically all her development was done outside of the main X title so it doesn't count.)
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@Robby said in Western Comics thread:
I can't believe they introduced a "Honey Badger" as ANOTHER young female Wolverine copy. Just... why.
She goes by Scout now. And suits probably think the more Wolverines the better.
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@pariston_hill said in Western Comics thread:
@Robby said in Western Comics thread:
I can't believe they introduced a "Honey Badger" as ANOTHER young female Wolverine copy. Just... why.
She goes by Scout now. And suits probably think the more Wolverines the better.
Makes sense given that name was clearly just going off the meme.
Still another Wolverine clone. Its just ugh, people, stop making new Wolverines and new Hulks and new Spidermen and new Venoms and... I understand making expies of already existing characters is a potential shortcut to success but its sooo lazy and just makes the originals less unique.
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@Robby
On the unique I'm not 100% - after like 500 supes is kind hard to come with new creative an unique powers. The rest I agree, that's way I think US comics should embrace more the concept of legacy heroes even if it's only on elseworld lines. -
@pariston_hill said in Western Comics thread:
@Robby
On the unique I'm not 100% - after like 500 supes is kind hard to come with new creative an unique powers. The rest I agree, that's way I think US comics should embrace more the concept of legacy heroes even if it's only on elseworld lines.I don't care about doubling down on powers, cause yeah there's only so many ways to go.
But when you introduce a new super strong guy that changes color and gets muscley because they were exposed to Gamma radiation and you call them ____ Hulk, that's lazy.
When you have a healing factor, claws coated in adamantium, a berserker rage and literally wear Wolverine's costume? Come on.
SPiderman copies are extra egregious because Spidey himself once split into four seperate identities that all used different aspects of his power set in unique and interesting ways that weren't spider themed or obviously related. But most of the SLingers designs suck and passing the identities on to new characters didn't take because the premise was only interesting when it was Spiderman juggling those roles and pretending to be a villain for half of them.
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Totally agree! I’m so sick of Hulk clones, SpiderMan clones, Wolverine clones and Venom clones
Glad someone said it!
We need new ideas
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Yeah like new characters that will in
turn spawn their own legacy characters, clones. & Future versions of themselves. -
Anyone know why they decided to give Black Tom Cassidy plant powers?
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@Shiebs Because at least now he's not a walking stereotype with the Shillelagh.
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hope this is just rumor, because this is so so much beneath Ororo. -
I Hope the 3 new characters are interesting
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@pariston_hill said in Western Comics thread:
hope this is just rumor, because this is so so much beneath Ororo.
She’s been a Queen, a regent, why would being the first mutant Congresswoman be beneath her?
I mean it’s an absurd premise if true especially in light of Mutants settling Mars but still.
I also like how they had to emphasize Jean won’t go Dark Phoenix.
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@Time-Control-Magician
How being a bourgeoisie politician after being quern of mars and voice of the Sol System not beneath her? -
Aren’t all three effectively the same thing?
I would think the more pressing thing would be apparently mutants are going to still have problems being accepted in public coming out of what’s already going on.
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@Time-Control-Magician
Marvel has one editorial line for X-men and that is perpetual genocide (or the process leading to one). -
They know no other way.
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Resurrection of Magneto is fucking good.
X-men Forever also off with a great start. -
https://www.denofgeek.com/comics/x-men-from-the-ashes-cyclops-new-mission/
“All of the assorted mutants of the world need to go and reintegrate back into the rest of the planet and live and coexist alongside a whole bunch of people that they just spent the last five years saying that they were the new inheritors of the future and that you have new gods now,” Brevoort says. “People around the planet have not taken that message to heart in a purely positive fashion.”
Ah nice to know the editor in chief for the X-reboot is a "the muties deserved it" type of guy. @Kaiolino
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It’s almost as if the first 60 years of X-Men comics never happened.
This is like arguing black people have no reason to be cynical towards whites even those very overtly doing or saying things that cause said cynicism.
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@Time-Control-Magician
Just full on Centrist Civil Rights 101. Negative Peace above all else, those minorities must know their place.Well It's a good thing to kill any good will so soon, I can just keep reading the Ms. Marvel minis and hope people o AO3 start doing Krakoan era fan fics.
