He feels more like a pre-timeskip villain in that regard. Since Hody, every villain has been an unapologetically evil, irredeemable jerk. Kaido has a bit more of the Crocodile or Moria in him, it seems.
Hi.
You've given up on Big Mom?
He feels more like a pre-timeskip villain in that regard. Since Hody, every villain has been an unapologetically evil, irredeemable jerk. Kaido has a bit more of the Crocodile or Moria in him, it seems.
Hi.
You've given up on Big Mom?
@Sibersk:
There are small nuances, like his weird honor streak and courtesy towards his enemies that feel like hints towards a deeper motivation. It doesn't feel like we're supposed to see him as evil as most OP villains.
It's tough, because I recognise (and I've wrote about it before) that Kaido has a lot of the idiosyncrasies and contradictions that should make for a compelling character. He wants to die, but only wants to do so in glorious fashion against a strong enemy. He inflicts cruel, systematic suffering on the people of Wano but expresses a strong sense of fair play otherwise. He's violently abusive to Yamato but seemingly respects his desire to be a son instead of a daughter. He has this reputation as a serious and terrifying figure of the pirating world, but he's a sloppy, emotional drunk. On paper, that sounds like a lot to explore, but I rarely get that vibe when I'm watching him.
I think one factor is that his most interesting quirks rarely interact with the main cast. He might be in his fun drunk mode when he enters the scene, but the first blow knocks him back into boring serious mode. No one challenges his sense of fairness with the soul-crushing system he's put the Wano citizens in. That desire to be beaten by a strong enemy doesn't manifest during the fight in the form of encouragement or demands to be hit harder, it just comes as an expression of disappointment after he wins, when there's no way for his opponent to respond to it.
He's had his moments, like slaying the face hag for unbalancing his fight with Oden, or telling Big Mom to stay back and let the Supernova squad try their best against him first, but most of the time when he's onscreen with the protagonists he just acts like a generic scowling muscle wall.
He feels more like a pre-timeskip villain in that regard. Since Hody, every villain has been an unapologetically evil, irredeemable jerk. Kaido has a bit more of the Crocodile or Moria in him, it seems.
Hi.
In what way are Crocodile and Moria not evil jerks? Almost all major One Piece villains, pre and post-timeskip, have been.
He feels more like a pre-timeskip villain in that regard. Since Hody, every villain has been an unapologetically evil, irredeemable jerk. Kaido has a bit more of the Crocodile or Moria in him, it seems.
Crocodile and Moria are neither less unapologetically evil than the likes of Doflamingo. Big Mom or even Orochi.
I think some ppl think Crocodile showing up on Luffy's side during Marineford and a passing response about no interest in Vivi or Alabasta anymore have ppl thinking he's somewhat been redeemed or on the road to it since he's so cool they want it anyway.
With Moria its the inverse. Also during Marineford, hell, before it when the WG had to cover for his L to Luffy he's been viewed as a chump. To the point they decided to have him killed and blame it on the war. He ran away with his tail between his legs as if he was a WB ally. Then add that it was Kaido that killed his crew and split his neck and made Moria lose his chin? Who doesn't pity this guy to the point they look past his irredeemable qualities?
Wouldn't be surprised if some story developments will have ppl looking back at Doflamingo with rose colored glasses.
So did i get this straight, all the dinosaur Fruits (King, Queen, Drake) are variants of the "Dragon Dragon" fruit, yet Kaidos mythical Dragon is a version of the Fish Fish fruit? If Dragon Fruits are a thing why isnt it a Dragon Dragon: model azure Dragon fruit?
So did i get this straight, all the dinosaur Fruits (King, Queen, Drake) are variants of the "Dragon Dragon" fruit, yet Kaidos mythical Dragon is a version of the Fish Fish fruit? If Dragon Fruits are a thing why isnt it a Dragon Dragon: model azure Dragon fruit?
Cuz in Japanese that's the word they use for dinosaurs.
@Zik:
Cuz in Japanese that's the word they use for dinosaurs.
That makes alot of sense. Translation should probably just call them dinosaur dinosaur fruit though to make it less confusing.
That makes alot of sense. Translation should probably just call them dinosaur dinosaur fruit though to make it less confusing.
Yeah I get that but I think of it this way, we're probably not going to see another dragon type devil fruit anyway to have different models based on it like the dinosaurs do (probably….. maybe).
Not including Momo cuz he ate a defective DF knockoff.
@Zik:
Yeah I get that but I think of it this way, we're probably not going to see another dragon type devil fruit anyway to have different models based on it like the dinosaurs do (probably….. maybe).
Not including Momo cuz he ate a defective DF knockoff.
If "Mythical" fruits are based on creatures that do not exist outside of myths and legends, and some form of dragon really does exist in the wild in the world of One Piece, then you could in theory have a regular Zoan, non mythical version of a dragon fruit.
If "Mythical" fruits are based on creatures that do not exist outside of myths and legends, and some form of dragon really does exist in the wild in the world of One Piece, then you could in theory have a regular Zoan, non mythical version of a dragon fruit.
I feel like in One Piece' s case, all mythical zoans actually existed in real life. We already know dragons existed cuz of the Wanted One shot and the story of Ryumma killing a dragon. I think the same for the rest as far as a phoenix, 9 tailed fox, Orochi, etc. They existed but we're rare and thus became myths. So the devil fruit version would still be categorized as mythical zoans.
I feel like as far as zoans go we're going to learn those devil fruits come from real animals. Not just based on them.
So as far as dragons go, there's the European type dragon that we saw as an actual animal in Punk Hazard that may have a devil fruit on it. Then there's the mythical yellow dragon of the center that may have a DF (but I'm guessing that's what Momo may awaken to become).
After that there aren't many other types of dragons.
I can't stress enough what a bad character Kuzoki Oden is. Probably the worst character in the Manga to play such a prominent role.
It's an example of Oda failing to "show not tell". We are constantly told how great Oden was, but he never actually comes across as particularly interesting or great.
Oden is what some incels call : chad
Oden is what some incels call : chad
He is supposed to be a Chad, we are constantly told what a Chad he was, but it's never really convincing and the character just feels flat and unlikeable.
Everything about Oden is mediocre yet he is shipped as this super duper incredible guy who Roger and Whitebeard just can't get enough of for some reason.
That makes alot of sense. Translation should probably just call them dinosaur dinosaur fruit though to make it less confusing.
Japanese for dinosaur is "kyoryu" which means "scary dragon", so Ryu-ryu are dinosaurs.
For Kaido, there is a legend of carp transforming into dragon after climbing waterfall (and you know how Magikarp > Gyarados is), and in Japan, oriental dragon like Kaido are closely attributed to water, hence fish.
I personally have no issue with Oden. Like when we first met the character he was unlikable, but throughout the flashback I really grown to like him for who he is.
I personally have no issue with Oden. Like when we first met the character he was unlikable, but throughout the flashback I really grown to like him for who he is.
The problem is the overhype. The character would be fine if Oda didn't put him on such a pedestal. Oden is a flawed character who makes tons of mistakes, yet those are never really acknowledged and he's instead treated like this perfect almost demi-God by everyone else.
The problem is the overhype. The character would be fine if Oda didn't put him on such a pedestal. Oden is a flawed character who makes tons of mistakes, yet those are never really acknowledged and he's instead treated like this perfect almost demi-God by everyone else.
It never felt like that way to me. Well, I guess certain characters did put Oden in high regard, but I think that's just because he inspired them. Like with the Scabbards for example or his own son Momo.
It never felt like that way to me. Well, I guess certain characters did put Oden in high regard, but I think that's just because he inspired them. Like with the Scabbards for example or his own son Momo.
Whitebeard and Roger just couldn't get enough of him
Whitebeard and Roger just couldn't get enough of him
He was a wide eyed bundle of joy and excitement seeing everything as a new adventure cuz he was ignorant to most things.
Plus he could fight.
It's not like Roger or Whitebeard were depicted as particularly stingy with their friendliness.
Whitebeard and Roger just couldn't get enough of him
Well, you know Oden could read the poneglyphs, so it makes sense! I mean at times Oden was funny with his moments o:
He feels more like a pre-timeskip villain in that regard. Since Hody, every villain has been an unapologetically evil, irredeemable jerk. Kaido has a bit more of the Crocodile or Moria in him, it seems.
Hi.
I don't agree with this at all. Post timeskip villains have been portrayed as far more sympathetic than pre-timeskip villains almost across the board. We have no clue why villains like Crocodile or Enel are the way they are whereas we have clear motivations and backstories for each of the post timeskip villains (except Kaido, yet, and like I said he doesn't come across as evil as you would expect)
It's tough, because I recognise (and I've wrote about it before) that Kaido has a lot of the idiosyncrasies and contradictions that should make for a compelling character. He wants to die, but only wants to do so in glorious fashion against a strong enemy. He inflicts cruel, systematic suffering on the people of Wano but expresses a strong sense of fair play otherwise. He's violently abusive to Yamato but seemingly respects his desire to be a son instead of a daughter. He has this reputation as a serious and terrifying figure of the pirating world, but he's a sloppy, emotional drunk. On paper, that sounds like a lot to explore, but I rarely get that vibe when I'm watching him.
I think one factor is that his most interesting quirks rarely interact with the main cast. He might be in his fun drunk mode when he enters the scene, but the first blow knocks him back into boring serious mode. No one challenges his sense of fairness with the soul-crushing system he's put the Wano citizens in. That desire to be beaten by a strong enemy doesn't manifest during the fight in the form of encouragement or demands to be hit harder, it just comes as an expression of disappointment after he wins, when there's no way for his opponent to respond to it.
He's had his moments, like slaying the face hag for unbalancing his fight with Oden, or telling Big Mom to stay back and let the Supernova squad try their best against him first, but most of the time when he's onscreen with the protagonists he just acts like a generic scowling muscle wall.
While I agree that he could use more interaction with the main cast, I think that there's still clearly a piece of the puzzle with him that needs filling in and it depends on how Kaido's story ends
Obviously Kaido doesn't apply his sense of fairplay with the average Wanoese citizen, because he doesn't consider them combatants, just conquered spoils, so he isn't going to get challenged on that.
And I don't think he wants to be hit harder necessarily, or else he wouldn't dodge when Luffy attacks him.
And I also like his trash talk, which usually makes him more fun to me than just being a scowling wall.
Big Mom is even more contradictory than Kaido. She is one of the few villains in the series who doesnt rule as an opressive tyrant (or strives to do so).
In fact she appears to have built quite a pleasant place in Toto Land where people from all races live in harmony. Now there is the drawback of people having to pay with their lifespans to stay but hey they are always free to leave at any time, and you could argue without lifeforce to sustainable the homies Tottoland couldn't exist.
But then again… she kills her own children and eats people lol
Big Mom is even more contradictory than Kaido. She is one of the few villains in the series who doesnt rule as an opressive tyrant (or strives to do so).
In fact she appears to have built quite a pleasant place in Toto Land where people from all races live in harmony. Now there is the drawback of people having to pay with their lifespans to stay but hey they are always free to leave at any time, and you could argue without lifeforce to sustainable the homies Tottoland couldn't exist.But then again… she kills her own children and eats people lol
BM is quite an oppressive tyrant. It's just that she believes she's the good guy, so she she feels like everything she does is justified.
Also, unlike what you believe, people just can't leave. Big Mom likes to make people think they can, but once you turn her away, you are automatically one of the baddies and she feel like she's totally justified to kill you.
Heck, I love Big Mom because of how complex she actually is, but she's so messed up. I can't wait to see what are her actual plans in Wano. When you read the entire arc, it's pretty clear she planned the alliance with Kaido since the beginning and is just waiting the right moment to go after what she really wants. There have been talks about a "true big bad" behind the arc, and if that's so I have no doubt it's Big Mom.
@Sibersk:
While I agree that he could use more interaction with the main cast, I think that there's still clearly a piece of the puzzle with him that needs filling in and it depends on how Kaido's story ends
Obviously Kaido doesn't apply his sense of fairplay with the average Wanoese citizen, because he doesn't consider them combatants, just conquered spoils, so he isn't going to get challenged on that.
And I don't think he wants to be hit harder necessarily, or else he wouldn't dodge when Luffy attacks him.
And I also like his trash talk, which usually makes him more fun to me than just being a scowling wall.
I get that Kaido doesn't care about the average citizen and will likely handwave away any appeal to playing fair against them, but a lot of the people he's fought care a whole lot more, and could maybe have standed saying something.
Kaido was definitely willing to take hits at the start of the fight, whether as a test or just to prove he could. Going from this line
to this pose
against the Supernovas' opening volley says to me he took at least the early hits head-on. Not to mention, when he dodges that one attack from Luffy it's played off as a new development that he's being forced to avoid damage, and evidence that he's actually been worn down a little by all the blows he tried to no-sell. He's willing to take the hits, but not to the point where he risks the fight over it, which is why I think it's one of his more interesting traits.
And like I said, he only seems to bring out his best snark after the opponent is already knocked out of blown away. I want some back and forth!
Don't get me wrong though. I don't hate Kaido or think he totally fails as a villain or anything. I just think he reads kinda flat and it wouldn't have taken a lot of changes to bring a lot more texture to his character. I'm still interested to see how he's overcome and if his death wish pans out or not (and what's done with him in the likely event that it doesn't).
BM is quite an oppressive tyrant. It's just that she believes she's the good guy, so she she feels like everything she does is justified.
Also, unlike what you believe, people just can't leave. Big Mom likes to make people think they can, but once you turn her away, you are automatically one of the baddies and she feel like she's totally justified to kill you.Heck, I love Big Mom because of how complex she actually is, but she's so messed up. I can't wait to see what are her actual plans in Wano. When you read the entire arc, it's pretty clear she planned the alliance with Kaido since the beginning and is just waiting the right moment to go after what she really wants. There have been talks about a "true big bad" behind the arc, and if that's so I have no doubt it's Big Mom.
That only applies to special people who have some kind of personal relationship with Big Mom. I don't recall any indication that for the average Tottoland inhabitant, "Leave or Life" means anything other than exactly what it says, a real choice to leave without repercussions.
That only applies to special people who have some kind of personal relationship with Big Mom. I don't recall any indication that for the average Tottoland inhabitant, "Leave or Life" means anything other than exactly what it says, a real choice to leave without repercussions.
I get that unimportant people can try to leave unnoticed, but I do think they are frowned upon and reviled. Those who successfully escape may be bad mouthed or put on traitor lists.
The point of Soul Pocus is that there’s no choice. Big Mom would ask “life or X”, but there was no real choice behind it. Junbe tried to leave in the friendliest of terms, and BM even seemed to have sympathy for him and respect for his choice, and yet he was asked to roll the death roulette.
It’s not coincidence that the ultimate Soul Pocus shown in the story was “Life of Death”. Read the lyrics of that song. You can’t leave Tottoland, at all. The place looks like a dream, but it’s ultimately a nightmare. The choice was only an illusion.
So I have been slowly rereading all of the manga (reached Zou today) and a lot of my pacing criticisms I had with OP since Marineford - but especially post-TS - have been diminished. FI went from my least favourite arc to being quite solid and especially Impel Down and Dressrosa gain a lot on subsequent rereads.. which makes me wonder how I will perceive Wano once everything is done and I can binge it again to see what I had overlooked or how it flows overall. In general I feel like Wano and PH had the worst pacing in One Piece to me so far, is that an isolated opinion?
My choice for the worst pacing is Dressrosa and PH. Dressrosa stood exclusively because there were so many unnecessary things going on, like the legendary "push the Birdcage" moment. Oh, and Doffy somehow resurrected after getting beaten down by Gear 4. The second Gear 4 vs Doffy fight didnt need to happen IMO.
PH was the first moment I read OP and wondering "why ppl are just running around for 10 chapters".. which sadly became the norm in post-TS.
I really hope after Wano Oda gets back to better pacing. It has been a constant problem for this "Yonko Saga", and I blame the scope of the arcs and the size of the secondary casts the story has forced itself into.
If, after Wano, we get a "soft reboot", with Law taking a time off, all companions settling down, and we go back just to the core crew for a while, next arc(s) may be better paced than the last one.
I feel you. Imo the best arc post-TS in term of pacing were Zou and Reverie. They involved many characters too but almost none unnecessary side story etc to weigh the main plot…
I don't really see WCI as suffering from pacing issues. Everything about it felt like a pre-TS arc. I get why some people have issues with the pacing of Dressrosa but personally it waa the arc where i was the most hyped for every chapter release
When it comes to bad pacing, Wano and PH are miles ahead of the rest. Wano act 3 in particular is in a league of its own.
My choice for the worst pacing is Dressrosa and PH. Dressrosa stood exclusively because there were so many unnecessary things going on, like the legendary "push the Birdcage" moment. Oh, and Doffy somehow resurrected after getting beaten down by Gear 4. The second Gear 4 vs Doffy fight didnt need to happen IMO.
PH was the first moment I read OP and wondering "why ppl are just running around for 10 chapters".. which sadly became the norm in post-TS.
Dressrosa is quite different in a binge, giving some attention to the future SH fleet members is something I didn't mind and I am sure we will be grateful for that come the final arcs. The middle part of PH with the constant running from the gas was absolute pain though, it still stands as probably my worst experience in OP along with DBF.. no, probably even worse than that.
I really hope after Wano Oda gets back to better pacing. It has been a constant problem for this "Yonko Saga", and I blame the scope of the arcs and the size of the secondary casts the story has forced itself into.
If, after Wano, we get a "soft reboot", with Law taking a time off, all companions settling down, and we go back just to the core crew for a while, next arc(s) may be better paced than the last one.
The descent and ascent from FI was amazing, I feel like we need more of those smaller adventure arcs in between again so we can really take in the New World and get some more crew interactions that are just fun.
I don't really see WCI as suffering from pacing issues. Everything about it felt like a pre-TS arc. I get why some people have issues with the pacing of Dressrosa but personally it waa the arc where i was the most hyped for every chapter release
When it comes to bad pacing, Wano and PH are miles ahead of the rest. Wano act 3 in particular is in a league of its own.
DR's weaker points are mostly all near the end, which is why it leaves a worse impression than it deserves really.
I really love Dressrosa arc. It is fantastic up untill Suger faints. After that, the themes of the arc all clash and end up going nowhere. Doflamingo creates the 1-5 Stars Game in an attempt to make everyone turn against everyone (part of his theme of manipulating people and creating a rule of violence and competition), but people immediatly start cooperating. The people of Dressrosa just straight up believe in the old king again and the colliseum members all have a huge debt towards Luffy. Rebecca's "pacifism" was interesting when she was able to dodge Cavendish, but in the second half it meant that she wouldn't fight Pica at all. The Grand Fleet members battles are very fun, but it gets some time to get there.
Sorry, I tried to say that I love Dressrosa and ended up criticizing the latter half, lol. The first half, tough, is great. One banger chapter after the other. (except for Usopp vs Trebol, which we should have seen more of)
It's taking everything I have not to go on a long rant against Dressrosa
It's a weird arc. Lots of things I love, even more I despise and overall a lingering feeling that it could've been so much more.
In regards to pacing… the worst moment for me is still the first half of Fishman Island with the exposition. It's like a roller-coaster ride of "let's go see this location! Here's an exposition dump! Now let's move on the the next location! And more exposition!". Almost every arc gets drawn out once the fighting commences, but that was the first time I felt Oda missed the mark with the introduction of an arc which stung. As for the best... post-TS Zou was good, WCI comes a close second especially considering how long it was. Personally I really liked PH and I can't recall feeling like it dragged on even during the infamous gas chase. But that arc's a guilty pleasure. And Pre-TS probably Drum. Alabasta deserves a mention too as the only big arc in the series that didn't leave me fatigued.
I actually really loved Dressrosa. The whole first part about Colosseum was easily one of my favorite post timeskip and even later it keeps being a good entertainment. The whole fall is on Doffy's final battle shoulders to me: him dropping to be a former Celestial Dragon, Law being a D, Ope Ope's plot relevance and DF awakening all looked like a shark jump after another.
In the end the whole arc is still a good ride, but I can't keep myself by considering Doffy as an overpowered villain which actually put more trouble than he should have, easily the most plot relevant villain since ever just for all he represents and the huge amount of plot threads (PUN!) he leads, while getting a bit emptier chapter by chapter.
In the end, what most made me enjoy the arc is the Impel Down-Marineford "not only Star Hat Pirates matter" vibes with all the combatants joining an important fight after another. Kyros taking down one of the top commander really hit me just as Wyper dealing with Shura, but harder.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
On the other side can't get the rant against Punk Hazard: a realtively short arc with a lot of future development points and just a few-but-good opponents. Caesar, Vergo and Monet are easily better than most of Dressrosa's villains and I remember really hyping myself about the whole Pirate Alliance matter.
On a sidenote, one of Dressrosa's lowest point actually were Doffy's crew: Senor and Baby 5 aside they were all or running jokes or nothing at all. And I am looking at you Dellinger, Machvise, Buffalo and Jolla, absolute empty and useless characters!
The common trend of these pace issues is due to clashing of different storylines meshed together. Like, Dressrosa was about beating Doflamingo and restoring the kingdom. All good. But it also:
The last four all mesh well together with the main arc objectives, so by themselves they don’t grind out pacing. But the other stories are kinda off, and whenever they are developed, the main story suffers and vice-versa.
Maybe it could have been better to separate the mera-mera tournment into its own mini-arc that happens before Dressrosa, so the others plot could start (and some even end) there and have lesser impact when we arrive in Dressrosa.
The New World see this problem come back constantly because of the scope of each arc tries to further as much other world lore as possible. It has an epic feel, but it’s unfocused, so more plots need to halt so other plots can move forward at each chapter.
What can help and I hope will happen is that the scope of future arcs will be smaller. Considering how much stuff Wano is dealing with, I sure think we may get more focused stories once the Yonko are dealt with.
I actually really loved Dressrosa. The whole first part about Colosseum was easily one of my favorite post timeskip and even later it keeps being a good entertainment. The whole fall is on Doffy's final battle shoulders to me: him dropping to be a former Celestial Dragon, Law being a D, Ope Ope's plot relevance and DF awakening all looked like a shark jump after another.
In the end the whole arc is still a good ride, but I can't keep myself by considering Doffy as an overpowered villain which actually put more trouble than he should have, easily the most plot relevant villain since ever just for all he represents and the huge amount of plot threads (PUN!) he leads, while getting a bit emptier chapter by chapter.
In the end, what most made me enjoy the arc is the Impel Down-Marineford "not only Star Hat Pirates matter" vibes with all the combatants joining an important fight after another. Kyros taking down one of the top commander really hit me just as Wyper dealing with Shura, but harder.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
On the other side can't get the rant against Punk Hazard: a realtively short arc with a lot of future development points and just a few-but-good opponents. Caesar, Vergo and Monet are easily better than most of Dressrosa's villains and I remember really hyping myself about the whole Pirate Alliance matter.
On a sidenote, one of Dressrosa's lowest point actually were Doffy's crew: Senor and Baby 5 aside they were all or running jokes or nothing at all. And I am looking at you Dellinger, Machvise, Buffalo and Jolla, absolute empty and useless characters!
The trio of Ceasar /Monet /Vergo (and briefly Law) are my favourite constellation of villains in the entire series and a large reason I enjoy the arc so much. Quality over quantity.
And I'm glad to hear people speak up about what they like with Dressrosa. It's fun to read.
The common trend of these pace issues is due to clashing of different storylines meshed together. Like, Dressrosa was about beating Doflamingo and restoring the kingdom. All good. But it also:
- Mera Mera Tournment
- Search for Kanjuro
- Introduced the Grand Fleet and its captains
- Reintroduced Sabo and finally made the revolutionaries a real presence in the story rather than background noise
- CP-0 Aegis introduction
- Burgess’ presence
- Law’s story
- Kyro’s story
- Tontatta’s story
- Fujitora’s introduction and plot to abolish the Warlords
The last four all mesh well together with the main arc objectives, so by themselves they don’t grind out pacing. But the other stories are kinda off, and whenever they are developed, the main story suffers and vice-versa.
Maybe it could have been better to separate the mera-mera tournment into its own mini-arc that happens before Dressrosa, so the others plot could start (and some even end) there and have lesser impact when we arrive in Dressrosa.
The New World see this problem come back constantly because of the scope of each arc tries to further as much other world lore as possible. It has an epic feel, but it’s unfocused, so more plots need to halt so other plots can move forward at each chapter.
What can help and I hope will happen is that the scope of future arcs will be smaller. Considering how much stuff Wano is dealing with, I sure think we may get more focused stories once the Yonko are dealt with.
Another plot point to add: Bellamy.
And agreed about making arcs smaller. I'd be overjoyed if Oda could return to the format of the Alabasta Saga with several small arcs with a larger connecting plot line instead of a big mess of everything.
Wano introduced Sabo and Mera Mera just like Alabasta introduced Ace.
Dressrosa had alot of stuff crummed into it but it worked and made the arc the most impactful in terms of world building.
It also had a real element of unpredictability. I don't know if you guys were on AP back in those days, but people here didn't know what you expect and there were legitimate debates over how the arc would conclude
Wano introduced Sabo and Mera Mera just like Alabasta introduced Ace.
Dressrosa had alot of stuff crummed into it but it worked and made the arc the most impactful in terms of world building.It also had a real element of unpredictability. I don't know if you guys were on AP back in those days, but people here didn't know what you expect and there were legitimate debates over how the arc would conclude
Ace’s introduction in Alabasta barely affected that arc. It was a side plot That lasted 3 chapters or so.
Each choice has merits and flaws. All the chaos in Dressrosa gives it unpredictability but affects its pace. It’s one thing to sacrifice an aspect of the narrative for a benefit in another, but when the same aspect (pacing) is being constantly sacrificed over multiple arcs, it’s not much of a storytelling choice anymore and becomes an obvious storytelling flaw. Virtue is always in moderation and balance.
If I were to cut something from dressrosa it would be either the Toys or the Dwarves, seeing as they mostly fill the same purpose in the story. I'd lean towards scrapping the toys.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The weakest links of Dressrosa really are the Donquixote family (minus Doffy and Pink) and Dressrosa itself. As a setting it really is pretty generic and dull
Island and all of the arcs best bits are unrelated to Dressrosa itself (Cora Flashback, Fujitora, Pirate alliance)
Kyros gave the Tontatta hope. If he's not a toy, he's dead from the attempts against the Doffy's family. Or they have Rebecca as hostage to keep him at bay.
Toys made for better themes connected to Usopp. Yes, they were utilized for many of the same things that the Tontatta were, but there are matters where the 2 diverge.
Wano and Dressrosa I feel like would be considered multiple story arcs on the same island. Like Wano has the acts and Dressrosa has the tournament and then fight against Doflamingo and his fam. I had no problem with the pacing, enjoyed them all to the fullest. :happy:
Kyros gave the Tontatta hope. If he's not a toy, he's dead from the attempts against the Doffy's family. Or they have Rebecca as hostage to keep him at bay.
Toys made for better themes connected to Usopp. Yes, they were utilized for many of the same things that the Tontatta were, but there are matters where the 2 diverge.
Arc could have been written differently. Riku family and Mansherry could have been merged. Why not Dwarves being the deposed monarchs?
Arc could have been written differently. Riku family and Mansherry could have been merged. Why not Dwarves being the deposed monarchs?
It's not about being written differently because that's not debatable to me. It can be done. I'm speaking to making sure things are done better. Oda connects so many things. If you're going to rewrite, consider everything it's connected to and work from there. You leave out 1 thing in your rewrite and you engender a worse predicament than what you're trying to fix.
I'll have to think about the family and the Tontatta being merged. It might work. I'm worried about the Grand Fleet and the 20 Kingdom family replacement.
It's not about being written differently because that's not debatable to me. It can be done. I'm speaking to making sure things are done better. Oda connects so many things. If you're going to rewrite, consider everything it's connected to and work from there. You leave out 1 thing in your rewrite and you engender a worse predicament than what you're trying to fix.
I'll have to think about the family and the Tontatta being merged. It might work. I'm worried about the Grand Fleet and the 20 Kingdom family replacement.
Imo it would work seamlessly. Dwarves being actual kings over an entire Island harmonizes with Giants having their own kingdom in Elbaf. Also Dwarves being super gullable works nicely with Doflamingos theme of manipulation. Doffy could easily have tricked the Dwarves into giving up their kingdoms without Oda having to rely so much on hax devil fruit powers like Sugar for the takeover.
Dwarves and toys were the best part of Dressrosa. Would make no sense to me to take them out or diminish their appearence.
But I agree that Punk Hazard is one of the best post-timeskip arcs. The drawings and pacing are on point. There is a lot of interaction between the strawhats and the island is itself intriguing and interesting to explore. It has connections to many other story threads (Donquixote Family, Kaidou's Smiles, Akainu x Ao Kiji) but the story is never weighed down by them. It's fresh, brief and fun.
So weird, because when I first read it I didn't like Punk Hazard. But now I can admire these qualities.
I think the main problem of OP post-TS (beside pacing) is that the arcs have too many things going on at once.
If OP is an RPG, there is a main story quest and side quests every arcs. OP nowadays has too many side quests going on at once the main story quest is dragged out.
I mean, side quests are good for character/world building, but if they drag the main story too much ppl, especially casual readers who I'm sure are the majority of readers, are gonna be impatient.
If I were to rework Dressrosa to fix the pacing while trying to keep everything as much the same as possible, I'd simply divide it into three arcs:
Essentially, I'd move some of the locations from Dressrosa to a nearby island that is known as a "hive of scum and villainy" where Doflamingo does his shady business. That's where the Coliseum is now located.
First Arc: Corrida Coliseum
Law's plan is a bit different. He gives Doflamingo one more day to decide to take the deal and quit being a Warlord. While waiting for Doflamingo's decision, the Straw Hats + Law first visit this new island to seek info about the Smile Factory's location, since they must be ready to strike it as soon as they reach Dressrosa. Luffy, Kin'emon, Robin and Franky go on this mission and are expected to take a ferry to Dressrosa before next day.
Meanwhile, the Sunny with the other Straw Hats and Law head to Green Bit so they can be sure they can scout it and prepare for the next stage ahead of time.
So, the Coliseum arc contains:
Second Arc: Green Bit
Third Arc: Dressrosa
What do you think?
It's essentially the same thing, but less plots at the same time, and readers get the feeling of the story going faster. Also allows for a bit of fleshing out of some small scenes.
Why didn't Kaido just make himself Shogun of Wano at some point? He has shown that he doesn't need Orochi anyways