Ah right, did anyone else get the feeling a second flashback is being set up for Yamato?
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)
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Ah right, did anyone else get the feeling a second flashback is being set up for Yamato?
Not necessarily Yamato, but I could see baby Yamato being brought up in Kaido's inevitable flashback.
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Unless Oda doesn't do a Kaido flashback the same way he did one for Big Mom it's pretty safe to say there will be a lot more Yamato in the near future ahead. Regardless of joining or no joining Oda not also giving us more of Kaido's pov of the relationship with his son would feel like a missed opportunity. So far the relationship has been mostly characterized by Yamato who hates his father for shackling him down. But even if you leave the stuff out of Kaido respecting Yamato's chosen gender identity you still have him pushing Yamato as his successor wanting to give him the lead position for his headquarters appointing him Shogun. So is that pure utility the same way Kaido wasn't killing Luffy and Kidd in hopes of making them subordinates or is that his version of parental love? There is more to tell here in my opinion.
I hope Yamato declaring again and again his want for adventure this chapter stops people trying to tie Yamato down with Momo as his retainer something which never has made that much sense to me given how they popped into the story clearly stating their want as sailing to see the world. Now that can happen in other ways without becoming a strawhat like being another grand fleet member taking leadership over remnants of the beast pirates, or whatever else but Yamato's endgame is 100% sailing out. Not staying in Wano. -
Not necessarily Yamato, but I could see baby Yamato being brought up in Kaido's inevitable flashback.
Ah, this is a good point, Oda could just intertwine Yamato's past with Kaido's. Similar to Jinbe's.
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It has been hinted at in chapter 996 that Yamato has a different form they can transform into. Whether the transformation results from a Devil Fruit or through Yamato’s blood, at this point in time that is unclear. Yet, if we were to entertain the possibility that Yamato has a Devil Fruit, what potentially could it be? Having looked at the structure of the Wano Kuni Arc, Yamato’s role and potential relevance beyond Wano, I have been circling around the idea that Yamato has the Neko Neko no Mi, Model: Nue.
- The Nue is made up of limbs of a Tiger, the head of a Monkey, the body of a Tanuki and the front half of a Snake for a tail;
- The Nue is also sometimes referred to as a Japanese chimera;
- The head of a Monkey could give Yamato’s transformed state the likeness of an Oni (Red Oni);
- The interesting aspect of the Nue is how the Tiger represents a prominent part of it (Tiger could also represent both the limbs and body of a Nue);
- Within Chinese Mythology, the Tiger is said to be the mortal enemy of the dragon;
- In particular, the White Tiger and Azure Dragon (Kaido) are significant creatures within Chinese Mythology – with the White Tiger constellation residing in the west and the Azure Dragon constellation in the east. The two are traditional enemies;
- The Tiger represents yin (female) and the Dragon represents yang (male);
- The meaning behind the Tiger-Dragon Yin-Yang story has the dragon representing the Chinese emperor who ruled all over the world and held the earth hostage. The Tiger challenges what it perceives to be a long-held power. With this adversity, the emperors’ hold on the world loosens and the tiger helps to level the field and restore a balance to a world held hostage by the Dragon (Emperor);
If Yamato is to have imagery associated with the Tiger, they will embody the force that will restore balance by helping to weaken the Emperor’s (Kaido’s) hold over the land (Wano Kuni).
The other interesting aspect of the Nue is its association with the Green Pheasant:
- The Nue was originally stated to be a bird that resembles the green pheasant;
- Nue is written with characters (kanji) connoting “night” and “bird”;
- Within Momonosuke’s story, I have been speculating for several months that Yamato embodies the Pheasant with Luffy being the Monkey and Inuarashi the Dog;
- Looking at the Green Pheasant, even the colour scheme for Yamato matches – red, blue and green;
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- The fact that those are the colours of the male green pheasant fit Yamato even more considering Yamato identifies as Kozuki Oden;
- The national bird of Japan is the Green Pheasant (Phasianus versicolor);
- The national fish of Japan is Koi
The Nue also has other curious features that could come into play going forward if Yamato does possess the Nue Devil Fruit:
- The Nue is also said to have the ability of shape-shifting, often into the form of a black cloud that can fly;
- I don’t know about black clouds, but when Yamato attacks, black lightning is released. Whether it is the release of concentrated Busoshoku Haki or something else, I am not certain;
- The Neko Neko no Mi Devil Fruit would fit the 2, 9 numbering (ne-ko) for the Straw Hat Pirate Devil Fruit Number theory
I have done a sketch of what I believe a Nue transformed version of Yamato could look like. I wasn’t entirely sure if the Nue would be classified under the neko subcategory given its chimera nature but seeing as the Tiger is the most noticeable aspect of the yōkai, I would surmise that a Nue Model Mythical Devil Fruit would likely be classed under the Neko category. Excited to see what mysterious powers Yamato has and how the battle they will have against Kaido will play out.
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I hope Tama turns out to be a kurozomi and gets paired off with Momo for some karmic fence mending. They'd look cute together.
It gets even weirder when we consider that Zoro spent more time training with Mihawk than traveling with the crew.
It's like if beating Rayleigh was Luffy's objective.
Oh wow. So Zoros second most long term relationship with someone is with teach hawk.
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Yeah, I have been thinking about the nue fruit too, but im surprised you didnt mention the Kyoto X One Piece event or showed the nue Oda drew for it.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/One_Piece_x_Kyoto
Its mane reminds me of Yamatos hair, how it transcends to different colors, and both got that teal color.
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Ah right, did anyone else get the feeling a second flashback is being set up for Yamato?
Here's a problem I see with Yamato's backstory: we already saw both his hero's death and the moment that made him declare his dreams. It's like getting the climaxes of his story before the story itself.
I guess Oda could show his troubled childhood to build up pathos and repeat Oden's execution through Yamato's eyes, but it would still lack the impact of a fresh reveal, unless there's even more elements missing, like maybe find out who was his mother or some other mentor figure that helped him in the past.
IMO, we won't be seeing a full Yamato flashback. Instead, we will get short expansions of his story, like his childhood suffering, he finding the journal, and the contents of the journal. But that won't build up the usual depth that a protagonist flashback usually gets.
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-Tremendous chapter for Yamato, and believe me, no one does tremendous chapters for Yamato the way I do.
Okay enough Trump!, get out of the White House already!
two declarations to sail the seas.
fourth chapter's title dedicated to Yamato.
Chapter's title speaking of sake and toast(when we already know Luffy postponed Jinbe's toast for reasons)
Second half of the poem in which the title is based, much likely happening later.
Setup ready to explore Yamato's suffering thru all those 20 years of despairWay to go, it really seems like Yamato will maintain main focus for what's left of the arc.
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Not necessarily Yamato, but I could see baby Yamato being brought up in Kaido's inevitable flashback.
But if anything, we're not suppoed to feel emphaty for Kaido atm, it would work better to give Yamato a flashback, and throw a lot of information on Kaido there.
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1%?? Come oooon buddeh!
Their promise was brought up like 4 times just in the latest chapter!
For story reasons alone she is definitely the most deserving and likeliest character to join!I'm sorry, man, it's just my opinion. I just don't see a child protagonist in the crew, and Tama's skills are still not honed to the point she won't drag the crew down. She's useful under the right circunstances, but not someone I expect to be in a 1v1 fight against a strong New World opponent.
If it helps, I'm wrong more often than not, so keep hoping.
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Yeah, I have been thinking about the nue fruit too, but im surprised you didnt mention the Kyoto X One Piece event or showed the nue Oda drew for it.
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/One_Piece_x_Kyoto
Its mane reminds me of Yamatos hair, how it transcends to different colors, and both got that teal color.
Oh wow, that. I completely forgot about that. I didn't even realise the Kyoto event featured a Nue because when I had read about that info initially, I didn't know about or care about the Nue =P.
Thanks for the reminder.
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We still know very little about Yamato's background.
Which is very likely to be brought up when Kaido gets his own flashback too. Lots of mysteries surrounding whatever Kaido is, even more now that we know his DF.
We know a lot about Yamato, virtually everything about his entire life from childhood to this day. Hypothetically, Oda can still recontextualize or subvert anything if that's the plan, but that's only vague speculation with nothing hinting at it at the moment. The only thing that I think is still open for investigation is the identity of Yamato's mother in case that's of any greater significance to the narrative.
Instead, what could happen if Oda decided to give Yamato another flashback is to flesh out what we already know about Yamato's abusive relationship his father, but I'm afraid that would be just like what happened now in 999 in regards to Ace, basically an overview of something we already know and understand. Or not, maybe Oda could be more imaginative about it and come up with some great scenes. That said, I'm not betting on this flashback happening…
Kaido's flashback will probably be mostly about Rocks and then his rise to Emperor. We'll only see the highlights of his career through a montage. I honestly don't think Yamato will feature in that flashback except for a small cameo in one or two panels as a baby and as a little kid. Maybe we'll see Yamato's mom though.
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Chapter's title speaking of sake and toast(when we already know Luffy postponed Jinbe's toast for reasons)
Second half of the poem in which the title is based, much likely happening later.I completely missed this. This sounds like a huge deal.
It makes complete sense for Luffy to toast with Yamato now that Ace is not there anymore.
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you still have him pushing Yamato as his successor wanting to give him the lead position for his headquarters appointing him Shogun. So is that pure utility the same way Kaido wasn't killing Luffy and Kidd in hopes of making them subordinates or is that his version of parental love? There is more to tell here in my opinion.
nah, I think this goes in hands with how the Shogun never really represented any power in th big scheme of things, Kaido could appoint a cockroach as Shogun and it would be, as long as Kaido remains in power.
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nah, I think this goes in hands with how the Shogun never really represented any power in th big scheme of things, Kaido could appoint a cockroach as Shogun and it would be, as long as Kaido remains in power.
Then why appoint Yamato to begin with? Even if symbolical it's telling to me that he'd appoint his son. Oda could have easily put down the hints for Kaido to view Yamato like how Judge viewed Sanji but that is clearly not the case.
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Here's a problem I see with Yamato's backstory: we already saw both his hero's death and the moment that made him declare his dreams. It's like getting the climaxes of his story before the story itself.
I guess Oda could show his troubled childhood to build up pathos and repeat Oden's execution through Yamato's eyes, but it would still lack the impact of a fresh reveal, unless there's even more elements missing, like maybe find out who was his mother or some other mentor figure that helped him in the past.
IMO, we won't be seeing a full Yamato flashback. Instead, we will get short expansions of his story, like his childhood suffering, he finding the journal, and the contents of the journal. But that won't build up the usual depth that a protagonist flashback usually gets.
I can see a "why Yamato was enamored with Oden and disgusted by her father" flashback, basically picking up what Ace alluded to with "why is your heart chained as well", even if it´s not that long, akin to Dressrosa/Riku flashback that took around 1 1/2- 2 chapters, or more appropriate and comparable, Sanji´s flashback in WCI that took around 1 1/2 chapters, which basically gave us his mother, his mistreatment by both father and siblings, and his escape.
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Yamato is so in and then we are complete.
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Well, if Yamato isn't joining, then them being the 8th Division Captain in the Grand Fleet is pretty much a lock.
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Guys, I think we can close this thread. Ryo "Nakama" has drawn Shinobu on the cover of Jump. It really doesn't get any more obvious than this.
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Yamato is so in and then we are complete.
As much as I am on the Yamato train, I think it would be good not to assume this since Oda can easily surprise us
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@Johnny:
Well, if Yamato isn't joining, then them being the 8th Division Captain in the Grand Fleet is pretty much a lock.
Poor Bellamy, taking too long to take the spot.
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My unscientific, arbitrary reasons why Yamato won't join (don't expect well-thought-out reasons).
1. Too many syllables in the name.
2. Way too vocal about wanting to leave (so much so that he's already asked and been ignored by Luffy).
3. Identifies as a male, but has the appearance of a female. This would break Sanji. On a side note, Oda has done a terrible job of handling gender issues, so I can't see him making a SH that identifies as a different gender despite appearances.
4. Nami-faced still.
5. Wouldn't fit the color wheel. If you look at the countdown to 1000, it looks like lime green is missing. Which character do we know of that's worn lime green more than once, even as late as in Wano?
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If you @me, don't expect a response. Lol! Just venting. :)
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She still identifies as Oden, not as male particularly.
I'm sure that will change.
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And until it does why not treat Yamato like every character that talked with him(Luffy, Kaido, beast pirate henchmen, etc)? Seems mighty weird to insist otherwise.
Actually don't even answer I'm not going to even attempt to argue that nonsense. -
Well at least you can't say that it's been done to death before.
The self aware i'm Oden but i'm also not is quite unique if nothing else
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And until it does why not treat Yamato like every character that talked with him(Luffy, Kaido, beast pirate henchmen, etc)? Seems mighty weird to insist otherwise.
Because her introduction box said daughter, she called herself Oden, so treating her as male is weird.
If you want to treat her the way she wants it, treat her as Oden, but that would be confusing.It's not the same case as Kiku's, she identifies as female, and that's how she should be treated.
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Welcome to the ignore list. :) Suffice to say I'll keep to treating Yamato like Luffy does. There is nothing ever to be gained arguing with people like you so be hereby aware that you're wasting time replying to me in the future.
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Then you shouldn't have replied in the first place. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
You must have an awesome knowledge of human nature to be able to know what kind of person I am just by a couple of sentences about a fictional character… :ninja: -
She still identifies as Oden, not as male particularly.
I'm sure that will change.
He literally said "I chose to be a man", nothing ambiguous about it
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As far as the Japanese version goes, Yamato consistently uses male patterns when speaking. I've come to understand that Yamato likely wants to be seen as male as Oden was, so that's what I'll do. That's speaking for myself.
As a mod, I'm not going to enforce the use of any one pronoun, but what I will enforce is conversation that is respectful about the subject. Whatever Yamato identifies as, that shouldn't be a factor into whether he joins the crew or not. Respect each other, first and foremost.
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Then as a mod keep out. Nobody started anything about their identity being a reason for joining so not sure where that came from.
I think I'm free to tell randoms strangers on the internet off about ever talking to me ever again when they bring the same nonsense arguments that I hear from bigots in the real world. Sorry but that's really the absolute last thing I care to engage with on a forum about a rubber pirate.
So when people posture with that kind of stuff they don't get respect from me no they get on my ignore list and the peace is kept. If that's an issue feel free to ban me instead. -
I mean, it should be obvious Yamato dislikes being referred as a woman since this very chapter had him angry at Ace's crew for calling him "daughter".
Frankly, this is not different from Sanji not wanting to be referred as a Vinsmoke. He doesn't want that identity, thus I'm not going to refer to him as Vinsmoke Sanji.
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I mean, it should be obvious Yamato dislikes being referred as a woman since this very chapter had her angry at Ace's crew for calling her "daughter".
Frankly, this is not different from Sanji not wanting to be referred as a Vinsmoke. He doesn't want that identity, thus I'm not going to refer to him as Vinsmoke Sanji.
With how things like this usually go it's never a question about if it's obvious or not. It's a question of the person themselves holding views that prefer to disregard things like that. At least in my experience
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I mean, it should be obvious Yamato dislikes being referred as a woman since this very chapter had her angry at Ace's crew for calling her "daughter".
Yeah true.
But that doesn't say much, because the statement denies her identity as male as well as Oden, so that's a reasonable reaction. -
Then as a mod keep out. Nobody started anything about their identity being a reason for joining so not sure where that came from.
I think I'm free to tell randoms strangers on the internet off about ever talking to me ever again when they bring the same nonsense arguments that I hear from bigots in the real world. Sorry but that's really the absolute last thing I care to engage with on a forum about a rubber pirate.
So when people posture with that kind of stuff they don't get respect from me no they get on my ignore list and the peace is kept. If that's an issue feel free to ban me instead.You can put people on your ignore list without making a big number about it
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You can put people on your ignore list without making a big number about it
I mean again ban me if that was such a gigantic issue.
And state as the ban reason that I told someone off that literally brought the same nonsense line of arguments you hear from bigots in the real world. If that's y'all idea of keeping the peace feel free. For me I think I'd prefer people to know on issues like this why they can stop replying to me and move on. But if that's against the rules feel free to do whatever you mods have to do. -
Can we just leave that guy alone.
I'm sorry I replied to him and started that thing again. Could we please move on from that? Thank you. -
Then as a mod keep out. Nobody started anything about their identity being a reason for joining so not sure where that came from.
I think I'm free to tell randoms strangers on the internet off about ever talking to me ever again when they bring the same nonsense arguments that I hear from bigots in the real world. Sorry but that's really the absolute last thing I care to engage with on a forum about a rubber pirate.
So when people posture with that kind of stuff they don't get respect from me no they get on my ignore list and the peace is kept. If that's an issue feel free to ban me instead.Maybe take a step back and try to see that I'm largely on your side here? I don't agree with comments like Yamato can't join because he would break Sanji. I say let Sanji break if he can't handle it. I believe Yamato should be treated as a male, and trying to argue why he shouldn't be has no place here.
However, I also respect that the matter is not exactly clear-cut, either. Oda has made it more ambiguous than it needed to be, and like it or not, there are people who still consider being Oden vs being male separate issues because of things like the Oda box calling him Kaido's daughter. Saying that these readers are wrong and that they should feel bad for being wrong doesn't help anything.
So no, you don't get to tell me where to keep out as a mod. I'm here to keep the peace, and I've seen too many times where drama of all varieties locked this crewmate topic down. Putting someone on your ignore list is fine. Announcing that you're putting them there is what take issue with.
Of course, if you feel I'm being out of line on something, you can always let a mod in grey know. I always want to understand how I can make better calls in the future.
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Isn't it pretty clear cut though? Yamato is biologically Kaidou's daughter and female, so anyone who meets him for the first time would obviously call him that and that's why the intro box also calls him that. But then Yamato clearly says "I chose to be a man, too". He refers to himself as male in the original Japanese. Heck, Kaidou and all of the Beast pirates respect this choice of pronoun, whether because they respect Yamato or because Kaidou enforces it for some reason.
In the end I guess it's kinda silly to argue about this since we can't actually hurt Yamato's feelings. -
Maybe take a step back and try to see that I'm largely on your side here? I don't agree with comments like Yamato can't join because he would break Sanji. I say let Sanji break if he can't handle it. I believe Yamato should be treated as a male, and trying to argue why he shouldn't be has no place here.
However, I also respect that the matter is not exactly clear-cut, either. Oda has made it more ambiguous than it needed to be, and like it or not, there are people who still consider being Oden vs being male separate issues because of things like the Oda box calling him Kaido's daughter. Saying that these readers are wrong and that they should feel bad for being wrong doesn't help anything.
So no, you don't get to tell me where to keep out as a mod. I'm here to keep the peace, and I've seen too many times where drama of all varieties locked this crewmate topic down. Putting someone on your ignore list is fine. Announcing that you're putting them there is what take issue with.
Of course, if you feel I'm being out of line on something, you can always let a mod in grey know. I always want to understand how I can make better calls in the future.
And what side is that sir? I really don't think you are "on my side" given you brought up this
@Shift:As far as the Japanese version goes, Yamato consistently uses male patterns when speaking. I've come to understand that Yamato likely wants to be seen as male as Oden was, so that's what I'll do. That's speaking for myself.
As a mod, I'm not going to enforce the use of any one pronoun, but what I will enforce is conversation that is respectful about the subject. Whatever Yamato identifies as, that shouldn't be a factor into whether he joins the crew or not. Respect each other, first and foremost.
If you think that my argument was based on an investment of Yamato joining or not you are so very much mistaken. Yamato joining or not is so so very insignificant to me vs just the general stances I have in real life that I also see no reason to compromise on just cause it's a fictional character.
So it was just very confusing that you came in posturing as mod when something as silly as joining or not joining wasn't even my point of contention.
And again if what I did was such a taboo here, do what you gotta do or we can all move on now. If you expect me to budge on what I said and why I said it I can't give you what you want.Isn't it pretty clear cut though? Yamato is biologically Kaidou's daughter and female, so anyone who meets him for the first time would obviously call him that and that's why the intro box also calls him that. But then Yamato clearly says "I chose to be a man, too". He refers to himself as male in the original Japanese. Heck, Kaidou and all of the Beast pirates respect this choice of pronoun, whether because they respect Yamato or because Kaidou enforces it for some reason.
In the end I guess it's kinda silly to argue about this since we can't actually hurt Yamato's feelings.However, I also respect that the matter is not exactly clear-cut, either. Oda has made it more ambiguous than it needed to be, and like it or not, there are people who still consider being Oden vs being male separate issues because of things like the Oda box calling him Kaido's daughter. Saying that these readers are wrong and that they should feel bad for being wrong doesn't help anything.
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You sure have all spikes out today.
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Not sure what you mean I'm responding to two mods that push something that I frankly see as a nonissue. Given that I'm not going to change my mind I already outlined the logical conclusion here. Either what I did is so unforgivable to the mods that you decide to ban me or we move on. Your choice basically.
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I just don't think it's ambiguous at all. Anyone who has known Yamato for a while and Yamato himself uses male pronouns.
Also, I would like to claim that I'm the least spikey!
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Not sure what you mean I'm responding to two mods that push something that I frankly see as a nonissue. Given that I'm not going to change my mind I already outlined the logical conclusion here. Either what I did is so unforgivable to the mods that you decide to ban me or we move on. Your choice basically.
Maybe it is a local idom that doesn't translate well. But it essentially refers to when people have their defences up so that any attempt to engage will be treat as an attack. You seem to be at a place where the only avenues are my way or your way and you'll fight anyone not doing your way.
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Also, I would like to claim that I'm the least spikey!
Yes your smooth corners are a sight to behold
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If Yamato's "I'm literally Oden!" quirk is in for the long run I want to see him meet Ivankov and their hormone therapy
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Maybe it is a local idom that doesn't translate well. But it essentially refers to when people have their defences up so that any attempt to engage will be treat as an attack. You seem to be at a place where the only avenues are my way or your way and you'll fight anyone not doing your way.
I see I was not aware of that idiom.
Not sure about treating everything as an attack it's more when it comes to the root of the disagreement that caused me to put that person on the ignore list. Yeah I'm pretty fucking tired of engaging with the type of arguments you see on that issue. If it's about the follow up of mods taking issue with me telling the person off and notifying them why they shouldn't bother replying to me ever again on that front it's more like I saw the logical conclusion to that from the first disagreement. I'm not going to budge and apologize for what I did and promise to let stuff like that silently pass in the future, if that's what you're seeking I can't give it and if that's a banworthy issue then I accept whatever the mods feel they have to do. Otherwise as already laid out the other logical conclusion is to just move on. -
Dude in red eventually asking to get a ban. lmfao
Never gonna happen -
Well anyways, I wonder how the promise between Tama and Ace is gonna turn out.:wassat:
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Well anyways, I wonder how the promise between Tama and Ace is gonna turn out.:wassat:
Luffy fulfils the promise of Ace's behalf of course, but im still not sure on Tama's part.
Either she joins with the goal of still becoming a bewitching kunoichi, or, she becomes one in this war, she can already bewitch and charm animals, and she did it to big mom too, so that part can technically be fulfilled even though it wasn't what Ace meant, and this war could be seen as her kunoichi "exam" where she will have prove what she has been working on, maybe we get a bit of both. -
Dude in red eventually asking to get a ban. lmfao
Never gonna happenNot sure what notions you have on the red name but I assure you they wouldn't apply to me.
I'm probably a stranger to most people around here and even if some people remember me, I've been rather inactive for several years(well I maybe pop in once a year for a bit) now it's basically still the same thing. I'm mostly back to reading here and other places cause Wano has been really great + being stuck at home in this pandemic makes me more prone talk with internet people on media again. So if you think I have veteran leeway cause I'm secretly buddy buddy with everyone that's not the case.
If you think red names can't ever get banned that's false as well, pretty sure I remember it happening at least once.But boring stuff like that aside I've heard if anyone can come up with a more legendary meme than "Jinbe can't join cause the doors on the Sunny aren't wide enough" you get redded instantly(I'm lying).
No but for real reading this thread back I miss some of the good old day meme arguments people made. (If anyone knows what I'm talking about lead me to what the new stuff equivalent to that is, some of that stuff was so hilarious I still remember it to this day.)