That's a funny series of pictures, but what do they have to do with what Oda actually drew?
Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 7 - Wano)
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Just look into the pudding
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I thought we agreed not to make a new thread until a viable candidate showed up?
Member of Beelzebub is Freakin' Awesome Group
what I'm catching up on currently: Gintama, lone wolf & cub, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and lost in poem (by our very own AP member GEPPETTOSMONSTER)
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Okay so after a little more thought I'm gonna make the case for Shutenmaru because I'm bored but also I want the receipts if this ends up being right.
So here's thing. Oda doing this namedrop thing is a definite indicator that he will be an important character this arc. And, even based on what little we know, him stealing from the only clean farm in Wano, under the control of Kaido, directly links him to the central conflict of the arc (Wano is in famine due to Kaido and Orochi) and puts him directly at odds with Kaido. Every single member of the crew so far has had their own motivation for being involved their arc's plot outside of 'help Luffy' (i.e. Carrot). The antagonists in each arc a member joins directly threaten that member specifically. Helmeppo was going to execute Zoro, Usopp and Sanji's homes were threatened by Kuro and Krieg respectively, Nami was enslaved and ultimately betrayed by Arlong, Chopper's father figure was killed by Wapol and Chopper wants to defend Hiriluk's memory, Robin and Franky were going to be tortured and imprisoned under Spandam, Brook had his shadow stolen at the hands of Moria. Every single time the new member of the crew has their own motivation for taking down the antagonist, who Luffy and co. in turn get involved with and ultimately defeat, helping resolve the new member's conflict.
That's exactly what Shutenmaru is being lined up for. He has already been directly linked to the famine plot, and therefor has his own motivation for taking down the arc's antagonist(s), and that conflict will be resolved when Luffy takes down Kaido (assuming Kaido is, in fact, taken down in Wano and doesn't get kicked down the road to Elbaf for some reason).
This is also conjecture based on maybe 3 lines of dialogue, so we'll see what happens when he shows up in a few chapters. But yeah, I think things are promising for Shutenmaru.
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Okay so after a little more thought I'm gonna make the case for Shutenmaru because I'm bored but also I want the receipts if this ends up being right.
So here's thing. Oda doing this namedrop thing is a definite indicator that he will be an important character this arc. And, even based on what little we know, him stealing from the only clean farm in Wano, under the control of Kaido, directly links him to the central conflict of the arc (Wano is in famine due to Kaido and Orochi) and puts him directly at odds with Kaido. Every single member of the crew so far has had their own motivation for being involved their arc's plot outside of 'help Luffy' (i.e. Carrot). The antagonists in each arc a member joins directly threaten that member specifically. Helmeppo was going to execute Zoro, Usopp and Sanji's homes were threatened by Kuro and Krieg respectively, Nami was enslaved and ultimately betrayed by Arlong, Chopper's father figure was killed by Wapol and Chopper wants to defend Hiriluk's memory, Robin and Franky were going to be tortured and imprisoned under Spandam, Brook had his shadow stolen at the hands of Moria. Every single time the new member of the crew has their own motivation for taking down the antagonist, who Luffy and co. in turn get involved with and ultimately defeat, helping resolve the new member's conflict.
That's exactly what Shutenmaru is being lined up for. He has already been directly linked to the famine plot, and therefor has his own motivation for taking down the arc's antagonist(s), and that conflict will be resolved when Luffy takes down Kaido (assuming Kaido is, in fact, taken down in Wano and doesn't get kicked down the road to Elbaf for some reason).
This is also conjecture based on maybe 3 lines of dialogue, so we'll see what happens when he shows up in a few chapters. But yeah, I think things are promising for Shutenmaru.
Plus there's the fact he might be based off the Yokai king Shuten-dōji
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuten-d%C5%8Djiwhich would certainly make him/her unique enough to join the crew
Member of Beelzebub is Freakin' Awesome Group
what I'm catching up on currently: Gintama, lone wolf & cub, Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, and lost in poem (by our very own AP member GEPPETTOSMONSTER)
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Okay so after a little more thought I'm gonna make the case for Shutenmaru because I'm bored but also I want the receipts if this ends up being right.
So here's thing. Oda doing this namedrop thing is a definite indicator that he will be an important character this arc. And, even based on what little we know, him stealing from the only clean farm in Wano, under the control of Kaido, directly links him to the central conflict of the arc (Wano is in famine due to Kaido and Orochi) and puts him directly at odds with Kaido. Every single member of the crew so far has had their own motivation for being involved their arc's plot outside of 'help Luffy' (i.e. Carrot). The antagonists in each arc a member joins directly threaten that member specifically. Helmeppo was going to execute Zoro, Usopp and Sanji's homes were threatened by Kuro and Krieg respectively, Nami was enslaved and ultimately betrayed by Arlong, Chopper's father figure was killed by Wapol and Chopper wants to defend Hiriluk's memory, Robin and Franky were going to be tortured and imprisoned under Spandam, Brook had his shadow stolen at the hands of Moria. Every single time the new member of the crew has their own motivation for taking down the antagonist, who Luffy and co. in turn get involved with and ultimately defeat, helping resolve the new member's conflict.
That's exactly what Shutenmaru is being lined up for. He has already been directly linked to the famine plot, and therefor has his own motivation for taking down the arc's antagonist(s), and that conflict will be resolved when Luffy takes down Kaido (assuming Kaido is, in fact, taken down in Wano and doesn't get kicked down the road to Elbaf for some reason).
This is also conjecture based on maybe 3 lines of dialogue, so we'll see what happens when he shows up in a few chapters. But yeah, I think things are promising for Shutenmaru.
Going off your logic, Jinbe, who has pretty much joined, breaks this pattern. Hody and Vander Decken never specifically targeted him. Even if you want to stretch it as being WCI or even Wano as being the arc that he actually joins, that still wouldn't apply to Jinbe. And we've had several characters who've wanted to take down the antagonist: Vivi, Rebecca, Momo, etc. etc. It's never been a Strawhat exclusive thing, especially in the New World arcs. I'm absolutely not saying that he has no chance (We haven't even met him lol), just that he's in good company here is all. In just the Wano arc itself, he's no different from Kin'emon, Momo, and the others in Momo's entourage, three of whom amusingly have had their names dropped ahead of time as well. What ultimately matters nowadays for new candidates as far as motivations go IMO is if they have a goal or dream that actually extends past the arc(s) they're introduced in. Like Tama would be a perfect example of this if it weren't for her age.
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The enemy of Fishman Island was racism. Hody was just a medium. The thing that needed to happen was for the citizens to trust humans. Jimbe wants to bring harmony between these two races, and breaking through that fear was what Jimbe and Luffy accomplished. I think you can say it fits. I mean Hody was a racist too, and he was the prime antagonist.
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I thought we agreed not to make a new thread until a viable candidate showed up?
Who's viable and who isn't is subjective, but Wano's set to be a major turning point in the story, so I thought it better to have a fresh thread to reflect that.
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I appreciate your perception of adventure and romance, and I suppose Luffy could be a real estate broker if he was not a pirate, or maybe a truck driver, but I really don't see Carrot's dream being to move her folk to another island and enjoying this thrilling experience. I guess we should just disagree here and move on.
? What? Luffy, the truck driver? I do not get what you are saying.
Anyways, you missed the point. Carrot's dream is to travel the world. What incorporating finding a home for her people would do, is to make her selfish dream to gain a noble aspect to it. Going through all the islands is the experience of adventure she wants, and as a plus, she is also helping the Minks, win-win situation.
And the manga is ending since Laftel is really close now, sure, but that doesn't mean that the Strawhats perceive that as the end of their adventure together. How is Nami drawing a world map with just a few more islands to go? What if Sanji doesn't find the All Blue before Laftel (we know that he will soon, but he doesn't)?
Other maps exist, she can buy maps. What is important is that she is the one that navigates around the world, and she is going to trace the path around that. All Blue seems to be something that will occur within the series, unlike the potential of Nami completing the rest of maps if she indeed wanted to travel the entire globe, and visit each island personally. But most, if not all of the Straw Hats dreams will be concluded within the scope of the final war.
What matter is that getting onboard the Sunny is the biggest adventure there is, even if the series is about to end.
Absolutely. Agreed.
Nobody is gonna think "I shouldn't become a Strawhat now if I want adventures".
No one is thinking that.
It's not comparable because you don't want to,
No, it is not as comparable because those scenarios are all for gags. Literally each and everyone of those has someone overreacting.
Something closer to it would be if Luffy said: Chopper you can also change color?! and Chopper overreacting telling Luffy that the Minks are not him.
The scene was not in that tone. It was not played for gags, no one was losing their minds. It was a simple remark.
just as you can't guarantee that Oda is speaking through Luffy (especially when Luffy is acting in-character). If that's your interpretation, it's fine, man, no worries, because this kind of stuff is completely open to interpretation. However, it's not a fact. For instance, my interpretation is that an artist that studied illustration and design as much as Oda has a better understandment than "furry talking animal"… especially when the two characters in discussion are a chibi-mascot-plushie-thing and the other a girl with bunny traits.
I tend to think that author's share their values and their ideas through their work.
That is but one of Chopper's forms, his arm point falls in the category of boy with reindeer traits.
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[/hide]I do not disagree with you, I am sure Oda does have a more complex idea in the matter. And I think he clearly shows that with Chopper, having several different forms. Chopper encompasses quite a bit of the spectrum.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Long:
A major part of the zou arc was the reveal that the kozuki clan and minks have been friends for centuries. Since the kozuki used to rule wano and their goal is opening the borders of wano who better to start with then letting a group that has had previous ties and is super different into the country.
This is an issue relating to Wano and the minks particularly on Isolation. I understand there's a race element but Oda isnt afraid to retread previous narrative threads that have some similarities like with Sanji and Robin.
Plus what benefit is it storywise to ignore the meaning of that bond and have the zou citizens find some random place when oda can really hammer in the breaking of borders message.
Forget Carrot, what the story seems to be setting up with Zunisha's incoming demise, the Kozuki-Minks bond, Wano's Policies and Oden's dream is too narratively rich for me to be fine with any mink leading them on some random mission to find just any island.
And this is a good argument of why the Minks and the citizens of Zou should live together. Looking forward to Oden's flashback. Perhaps how Oden was going to destroy the country was by allowing the Minks to live there while he was the Shogun, but there was a big clash against it. I mean why weren't they living together already?, I could see the potential danger with the Minks having a transformation they have to train to control.
What I would like to know is if it is already too late to open Wano's borders. Not because they will fail, but because of the confrontation that is about to occur. Some of the facts we know.
There is a shortage of food.
Most of the country is a wasteland.
The water and animals are poisonous.Add on to that the simple collateral from the fight against Kaido, if the fight against Doffy is anything to go by. Also if Oda plays some of his cards, what is preventing the Beast Pirates from unleashing more poison gas as they did in Zou? And the looming threat of Big Mom.
There is also a message about isolation with forcing the citizens of Wano to leave their country. They never allowed anyone in, but now they are seeking refuge. They have become what they wanted to avoid.
So the only thing I would change about the idea is: The Minks and the people from Wano look for a place for them to live together.
I agree that Zunisha is going to be taken down though. I imagine Momo coming in at Kaido, ordering Zunisha to strike him, for the latter to just block it and flip Zunisha over by the trunk for the slam down.
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Just look into the pudding
…You do realize I can now kick you out of this thread if I think you're just being random and spammy, right?
You like Pudding, fine. But keep things on-point from now on, and don't just post percentages and pics without reasoning behind it.
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…You do realize I can now kick you out of this thread if I think you're just being random and spammy, right?
You like Pudding, fine. But keep things on-point from now on, and don't just post percentages and pics without reasoning behind it.
lol I've posted my thoughts on her plenty of times. These threads are nothing but constant repetition of the same stupid theories and people refusing to back down from whichever character like you with Carrot. The discussion in here goes on for hundreds of pages but never actually goes anywhere. Don't take it so seriously.
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lol I've posted my thoughts on her plenty of times. These threads are nothing but constant repetition of the same stupid theories and people refusing to back down from whichever character like you with Carrot. The discussion in here goes on for hundreds of pages but never actually goes anywhere. Don't take it so seriously.
The problem is, you don't acknowledge when people have legitimate criticism with your theories. You can vouch for who you like, and you can argue against whomever you think won't fit. But you can't just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore rebuttals from those who disagree you, while still keeping on with the same "official" rankings as if no one said anything. And to complain about folks "refusing to back down" when that's really what you are doing, refusing to acknowledge anyone's arguments for characters you consider to be "not even in the running".
I point out how Oda chose to portray two characters, you respond with what amounts to mudslinging. I want to hear legitimate thoughts on why you think what I presented doesn't hurt Pudding's chances. I don't want pictures of pudding cups and carrot dishes without rhyme or reason to become the norm here. That's not conducive to real discussion, which is something I do take seriously, thank you very much.
And if you're tired of this kind of talk, why in the world are you still talking in here?
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Plus there's the fact he might be based off the Yokai king Shuten-dōji
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuten-d%C5%8Djiwhich would certainly make him/her unique enough to join the crew
This is really getting into conspiracy theory territory, but as long as we're on the topic, in the raws Oda spells Shuten as 酒天, which seems to be a less used variant spelling of the legendary Shuten. This name has the kanji for sake and ten/the heavens (天), and the sake jug we see Kaidou drinking from also has the kanji 天 on it. Maybe Shutenmaru has the most important role of all, Kaidou's booze provider.
Also IIRC Shuten-doji is Orochi's offspring in some legends.
Not even Naruto resorted to time travel
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The problem is, you don't acknowledge when people have legitimate criticism with your theories. You can vouch for who you like, and you can argue against whomever you think won't fit. But you can't just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore rebuttals from those who disagree you, while still keeping on with the same "official" rankings as if no one said anything. And to complain about folks "refusing to back down" when that's really what you are doing, refusing to acknowledge anyone's arguments for characters you consider to be "not even in the running".
I point out how Oda chose to portray two characters, you respond with what amounts to mudslinging. I want to hear legitimate thoughts on why you think what I presented doesn't hurt Pudding's chances. I don't want pictures of pudding cups and carrot dishes without rhyme or reason to become the norm here. That's not conducive to real discussion, which is something I do take seriously, thank you very much.
And if you're tired of this kind of talk, why in the world are you still talking in here?
There may be hope for this new thread after all!
Keep this up and I'm gonna start a fan club. We'll be called the Shifties. -
Pudding professional skills -> Cook
Pudding (potential) unique abilities -> Reading poneglyphs
Pudding DF -> not 29I mean, if people think Carrot is redundant…
I agree with ackwardstation that Carrot is being build up for some relevant role. Be the next SH is our take on it, but I can see other things on her way rather than that (if she is revealed a traitor - I can't see how that could possibly work, but whatever - I would probably like it even more than she joining).
As for Pudding it is similar, I see her definitely being more than simply a one-arc ally, she will still play a role in the story (I still have my hopes for Teach kidnapping her to have her as his Robin)... but being a SH is one I definitely rule out. -
This is really getting into conspiracy theory territory, but as long as we're on the topic, in the raws Oda spells Shuten as 酒天, which seems to be a less used variant spelling of the legendary Shuten. This name has the kanji for sake and ten/the heavens (天), and the sake jug we see Kaidou drinking from also has the kanji 天 on it. Maybe Shutenmaru has the most important role of all, Kaidou's booze provider.
Also IIRC Shuten-doji is Orochi's offspring in some legends.
Interesting note, I did not pay attention to the booze part. I was researching a bit that legend and the others commonly associated with it. And there are couple of things that do catch my attention and kind of plays into the series. Ex. A sword name Onikiri Demon Slasher, and I remember there being talks about how some members wanted a High Grade Ko-Naginata and if I'm not mistaken that was one of the weapons used in the legend. The lineage is also another thing that caught my attention as you mentioned with Orochi.
Another interesting note now that you mentioned the booze. Shuten Dojo was incapacitated by Holy Sake, Orochi as well, albeit a different sake. And they are both associated with the location. Hmm. I cannot wait until this character finally is revealed. Doubt he'll be a part of the crew, BUT definitely will be a central part of the arc.
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@K.:
Other maps exist, she can buy maps. What is important is that she is the one that navigates around the world, and she is going to trace the path around that. All Blue seems to be something that will occur within the series, unlike the potential of Nami completing the rest of maps if she indeed wanted to travel the entire globe, and visit each island personally. But most, if not all of the Straw Hats dreams will be concluded within the scope of the final war.
Most Strawhats' dreams will be concluded within the scope of the final war, yes, but just because that's how things will play out, not necessarily because that's the only logical outcome. Chopper will somehow become a doctor capable of curing any disease, the All Blue will be on the way, Nami will be able to draw a map of the New World because of some other maps (apparently) and… Carrot will have the greatest adventure while making the necessary efforts to bring the Dawn of the world. It works.
I repeat that Carrot may have another destination for her character arc... but it's also undeniable that becoming a Strawhat works for her current purpose (adventures) and possible future purpose (to help Luffy bring the Dawn of the world).
No, it is not as comparable because those scenarios are all for gags. Literally each and everyone of those has someone overreacting.
Something closer to it would be if Luffy said: Chopper you can also change color?! and Chopper overreacting telling Luffy that the Minks are not him.
The scene was not in that tone. It was not played for gags, no one was losing their minds. It was a simple remark.
I tend to think that author's share their values and their ideas through their work.
I know what a gag is… and it is something played for laughs, but also part of the character's mindset. Gags are not random, but coherent with the character. All the examples I mentioned happen to be part of Luffy's gag repertoire because they are a natural extension of Luffy's personality and how he simplifies or misunderstands many things.
That's Luffy's process of thinking. Therefore, Luffy is in-character when he makes his remark, even if it's not a gag.
An author speaks through its work, but this phenomenon is much more complex than considering every word of dialogue as something that the author believes in.
That is but one of Chopper's forms, his arm point falls in the category of boy with reindeer traits.
I do not disagree with you, I am sure Oda does have a more complex idea in the matter. And I think he clearly shows that with Chopper, having several different forms. Chopper encompasses quite a bit of the spectrum.
Arm Point doesn't exist anymore though, just as Jump Point was also erased after the time skip (and that's the form that would coincide the most with Carrot's skills).
Anyway, that doesn't matter. My argument is that "furry" is a really broad concept for design that can overlap with everything. Even Inuyasha is a furry. And that's the point, it's so meaningless to be a furry dsign-wise that there's no reason to be overly restrictive it.
For instance, Carrot is just another variation of design for a human girl… really, that's it! You're not supposed to look at her and think that the Strawhats bought another pet ("oh no, there's another animal in the crew!!"). Design-wise, Carrot is just an anime-like female character with an excuse to have rabbit ears and a tail to stand out from other women.
And Carrot is actually the most human-like named mink, which makes her more relatable to human readers. It's not like Wanda that has a snout, something that dehumanizes her face and could actually become detrimental for her chances of becoming a protagonist in a comic book.
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This might be far fetched BUT after the latest chapter I get the feeling that Tama will be the next person to inherit the StrawHat in the future.
One except for Nami, I think she's the only who's ever worn it.
Also the scene of Luffy getting pissed at Tama's injury reminds me of Shanks getting pissed that Luffy was beaten by the bandits.
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Most Strawhats' dreams will be concluded within the scope of the final war, yes, but just because that's how things will play out, not necessarily because that's the only logical outcome. Chopper will somehow become a doctor capable of curing any disease, the All Blue will be on the way, Nami will be able to draw a map of the New World because of some other maps (apparently) and… Carrot will have the greatest adventure while making the necessary efforts to bring the Dawn of the world. It works.
I repeat that Carrot may have another destination for her character arc... but it's also undeniable that becoming a Strawhat works for her current purpose (adventures) and possible future purpose (to help Luffy bring the Dawn of the world).
And therefore being part of the fleet will also help upon bringing that dawn. That is also undeniable.
I know what a gag is… and it is something played for laughs, but also part of the character's mindset. Gags are not random, but coherent with the character. All the examples I mentioned happen to be part of Luffy's gag repertoire because they are a natural extension of Luffy's personality and how he simplifies or misunderstands many things.
That's Luffy's process of thinking. Therefore, Luffy is in-character when he makes his remark, even if it's not a gag.
As much as that is true, the use of gags in a narrative also have an intention. What you describe is how to make the gag work properly, but the intention of it is a different matter.
And at the end of the day, it is Luffy's perception of a character that matters, not our complex analysis of the spectrum of animal type characters, nor our ideas of why a character should travel with them. Carrot going on adventures can be accomplished independently as well.
An author speaks through its work, but this phenomenon is much more complex than considering every word of dialogue as something that the author believes in.
It is not as extreme as that, but you can tell by the context or tone and see what is the author's stand on certain issues. For example, Oda's views on women or his view in friendships.
Arm Point doesn't exist anymore though, just as Jump Point was also erased after the time skip (and that's the form that would coincide the most with Carrot's skills).
Anyway, that doesn't matter. My argument is that "furry" is a really broad concept for design that can overlap with everything. Even Inuyasha is a furry. And that's the point, it's so meaningless to be a furry dsign-wise that there's no reason to be overly restrictive it.
For instance, Carrot is just another variation of design for a human girl… really, that's it! You're not supposed to look at her and think that the Strawhats bought another pet ("oh no, there's another animal in the crew!!"). Design-wise, Carrot is just an anime-like female character with an excuse to have rabbit ears and a tail to stand out from other women.
And Carrot is actually the most human-like named mink, which makes her more relatable to human readers. It's not like Wanda that has a snout, something that dehumanizes her face and could actually become detrimental for her chances of becoming a protagonist in a comic book.
Alright. Horn point, reindeer boy, even more so than arm point.
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One except for Nami, I think she's the only who's ever worn it.
Actually Usopp, Robin, and Sweet Pea (A Kuja pirate) have all worn the hat.
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we keep in on with Shutenmaru name drops.
could be some kind of Ganfall, Wiper, Koza, Kyros, tho, theres already several characters playing the local rebel.
its really getting interesting enough, however i dont want to get Raizou'ed again.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@.access:
Pudding professional skills -> Cook
shes a baker tho.
Pudding (potential) unique abilities -> Reading poneglyphs
Pudding DF -> not 29we dont know at all how her ability works.
I mean, if people think Carrot is redundant…
cause there isn't a third eyed member, neither a brown-haired and leave alone a yonko-blood related member.
she's unique enough, I do give that she's really not in there to join the main crew, but her third eye ability will come into play, thats for sure.
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This post is deleted!
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This might be far fetched BUT after the latest chapter I get the feeling that Tama will be the next person to inherit the StrawHat in the future.
One except for Nami, I think she's the only who's ever worn it.
Also the scene of Luffy getting pissed at Tama's injury reminds me of Shanks getting pissed that Luffy was beaten by the bandits.
Or when they learned that the Franky Family beat up Usopp and stole their money. They weren't pissed about the money, they wanted to avenge their comrade. But I like that idea about Tama getting the hat, probably the first female to inherit it. But her not being a 'D' necessarily…will that matter, I wonder?
we keep in on with Shutenmaru name drops.
could be some kind of Ganfall, Wiper, Koza, Kyros, tho, theres already several characters playing the local rebel.
its really getting interesting enough, however i dont want to get Raizou'ed again.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
shes a baker tho.
we dont know at all how her ability works.
cause there isn't a third eyed member, neither a brown-haired and leave alone a yonko-blood related member.
she's unique enough, I do give that she's really not in there to join the main crew, but her third eye ability will come into play, thats for sure.
Probably somewhat like Madame Shyarly, perhaps.
Shutenmaru does sound like a good candidate. Someone who is indeed good at sneaking, carrying large quantities and traversing great distances within a relatively short span, and performs these acts regularly in defiance of how dangerous it is, does sound like a much better candidate for a spy/scout/lookout than, say, Carrot. Throw in that they're probably a ninja badass with skills comparable to but not a result of a Devil Fruit (in my ideal outlook), and we're probably looking at someone with the skills to pay the bills in the long run. If they are also a sometimes brawler but have ninjutsu tools and techniques to boot, they'll make a perfect in-between fighter like Franky and Chopper who sometimes rely on brute strength but are also more versatile combatants. Now if we could confirm Shutenmaru was female…nah, dreams never come completely true like that.
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I'm not a japanese expert but Holdem refers to Shutenmaru as him.
Okiku's expression to hearing that name is also interesting.
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I'm not a japanese expert but Holdem refers to Shutenmaru as him.
Okiku's expression to hearing that name is also interesting.
Well -maru is pretty exclusively a male name suffix unless the author is trying to make a point of something, that was to be expected.
I haven't seen the raw though, does Holdem refer to Shuten as "kare" or "ano otoko" or something? -
Well -maru is pretty exclusively a male name suffix unless the author is trying to make a point of something, that was to be expected.
I haven't seen the raw though, does Holdem refer to Shuten as "kare" or "ano otoko" or something?But if they're undercover and people just assume it's a dude (wishful thinking on my part, admittedly, just really not looking forward to even more of a sausage fest) then we might be surprised. What better cover, after all, than to have dual identities of that nature? Being able to go about one's business in the guise of an unassuming female when not 'on duty' and have no one the wiser since they're looking for a male…would make for a good twist even if we predict it this far ahead. But we've already seen the impressive feats by Wano's women so why not the one who surpasses them all be our Shutenmaru?
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But if they're undercover and people just assume it's a dude (wishful thinking on my part, admittedly, just really not looking forward to even more of a sausage fest) then we might be surprised. What better cover, after all, than to have dual identities of that nature? Being able to go about one's business in the guise of an unassuming female when not 'on duty' and have no one the wiser since they're looking for a male…would make for a good twist even if we predict it this far ahead. But we've already seen the impressive feats by Wano's women so why not the one who surpasses them all be our Shutenmaru?
Not related to Shuten, but speaking of crossdressing it still seems like a popular theory on Japanese discussion sites that Kiku is a man. Though I'm not fluent enough to tell through text whether they're serious or meme'ing.
Not even Naruto resorted to time travel
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Who's viable and who isn't is subjective, but Wano's set to be a major turning point in the story, so I thought it better to have a fresh thread to reflect that.
Cool cool
Am I the only one who thinks Luffy won't like Shutenmaru even though they are on the same side because they are bandits and he hates all bandits (with the exception of Dadan and her crew)
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This is really getting into conspiracy theory territory, but as long as we're on the topic, in the raws Oda spells Shuten as 酒天, which seems to be a less used variant spelling of the legendary Shuten. This name has the kanji for sake and ten/the heavens (天), and the sake jug we see Kaidou drinking from also has the kanji 天 on it. Maybe Shutenmaru has the most important role of all, Kaidou's booze provider.
Also IIRC Shuten-doji is Orochi's offspring in some legends.
I'm sooooo confused :wassat:
So let me get this straight… he's a key figure in the rebellion against the shogun.... but he's actually the Shogun's son.... and he makes sake for Kaidou?
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I remember Sweet Pea but I don't remember Robin or Ussop wearing the hat at any moment. Especially Ussop.
Robin when she first met Luffy and the crew. Used her powers to playfully swipe it from Luffy.
As for Usopp, he wore it during the Foxy arc, when Afro Luffy fought Foxy.
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[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/mSSXCkZ.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/EjMpfUd.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/rmMmXWU.jpg[/qimg]This cover says nothing about either characters joining or not. It is merely portraying the circumstances. Pudding being in the background is appropriate as the cake plot, although important was mostly secondary to the chase. We barely saw the cooking process, etc. On the other hand, Carrot's transformstion was a big event, and it being a transformation, it is correct to showcase her twice. The chase being a more prominent plot, makes the difference between which one is more highlighted.
The cover argument has been mostly compared to the cover where Jimbe is with the crew. The major difference is that no one else beside Jimbe and the entire Straw Hat crew were there. Which makes it stand out more, even if you want to call that a product of circumstance. Not to mention that the FI arc finished on a note where Jimbe was invited to the crew. That was later followed up with Jimbe's sake cup scene, his words to his crew members and Luffy declaring that he is Jimbe's captain now.
WCI ended and Carrot was not asked to join. So is the covwr an indication ofbher joining or just saying that Carrot was going to do something. I go for the latter.
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Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
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Multiple name drops for Shutenmaru. Definitely going to be a BIG key player this arc. I just wonder if He's an actual "HE".
Super Happy for a new thread. Congrats for the promotion Shift!–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Well -maru is pretty exclusively a male name suffix unless the author is trying to make a point of something, that was to be expected.
I haven't seen the raw though, does Holdem refer to Shuten as "kare" or "ano otoko" or something?Care to elaborate on Kare and ano otoko?
Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship
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Care to elaborate on Kare and ano otoko?
Those are just male pronouns as opposed to the gender neutral ones used a lot in Japanese. Again the -maru means there's a 99.9% chance it's a guy but I was just curious.
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Not related to Shuten, but speaking of crossdressing it still seems like a popular theory on Japanese discussion sites that Kiku is a man. Though I'm not fluent enough to tell through text whether they're serious or meme'ing.
The pronunciation she uses to address herself is "Sessha", which was used only by Samurai, and since like 99% of Samurai were men, I guess that's where the meme came from.
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@S.C.:
The pronunciation she uses to address herself is "Sessha", which was used only by Samurai, and since like 99% of Samurai were men, I guess that's where the meme came from.
I know, I think it's the combination of that and her weird height.
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@K.:
And therefore being part of the fleet will also help upon bringing that dawn. That is also undeniable.
Huh… and? My argument was never that Carrot could not have another outcome for her character arc, as I'm saying since my first post in this thread. My argument is that becoming a Strawhats fits (just like other options, and better than many), and I told you before because you said that it would be pointless for her to get onboard the Sunny because she wouldn't have enough adventures. However, as you recognized later, becoming a Strawhat is to embark into the biggest adventure there is.
As much as that is true, the use of gags in a narrative also have an intention. What you describe is how to make the gag work properly, but the intention of it is a different matter.
And at the end of the day, it is Luffy's perception of a character that matters, not our complex analysis of the spectrum of animal type characters, nor our ideas of why a character should travel with them. Carrot going on adventures can be accomplished independently as well.
It is not as extreme as that, but you can tell by the context or tone and see what is the author's stand on certain issues. For example, Oda's views on women or his view in friendships.
What matters is whether Oda created Carrot to become a Strawhat or not, which neither you or I know at the moment…
Luffy's first impression of the mink-race is not Oda whispering in our ears that no mink will join, because that comment was in-character with Luffy's perception. Obviously Luffy needs to like the character for the person to join (his percepetion of character is important in-universe), but Luffy never said he was not interested in the minks either, and his heart is usually open to any weird people (like the animal zombies in Thriller Bark) and friends (like Vivi and Law). Hell, Luffy would probably be happy to welcome Carrot as his crewmate... but it's Oda who decides if she will join or not based on his criteria that we can never be sure to understand completely (and that's why we talk about narrative, character arc, design and stuff).
When it comes to what the author speaks through its work, you can't compare one random comment by Luffy about minks with something so well established throughout many arcs as Oda's views on women.
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@K.:
This cover says nothing about either characters joining or not.
Not to mention there are like 10 different covers where Law is given equal prominence with strawhats, or even more focus than anyone but Luffy, and he isn't joining.
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Luffy's first impression of the mink-race is not Oda whispering in our ears that no mink will join, because that comment was in-character with Luffy's perception.
Oda is the author. He put the words in Luffy's mouth. Luffy didn't magically make that statement on his own without Oda.
Oda could have had Luffy say anything about the minks at all, and have it still be in character. He could have said "It's a whole island of weird people!" Or "This is what lives on an elephant?" or "Wow, I want to eat all of them!" or "These guys look strong!" But no, his very first impression, given by the author, was "these are like Chopper." That's a statement Oda came up with, and that Oda put into Luffy's mouth, very nearly first thing. Not played as a gag, or a back and forth with Chopper, but just as a simple declarative statement. That is how Oda sees them, and that's how Luffy sees them.
Luffy had a stronger reaction to potential ninja, and a stronger reaction to Samurai Girl being cool just a couple chapters ago.
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Oda is the author. He put the words in Luffy's mouth. Luffy didn't magically make that statement on his own without Oda.
Oda could have had Luffy say anything about the minks at all, and have it still be in character. He could have said "It's a whole island of weird people!" Or "This is what lives on an elephant?" or "Wow, I want to eat all of them!" or "These guys look strong!" But no, his very first impression, given by the author, was "these are like Chopper." That's a statement Oda came up with, and that Oda put into Luffy's mouth, very nearly first thing. Not played as a gag, or a back and forth with Chopper, but just as a simple declarative statement. That is how Oda sees them, and that's how Luffy sees them.
Luffy had a stronger reaction to potential ninja, and a stronger reaction to Samurai Girl being cool just a couple chapters ago.
Oda is the author and he puts the words in Luffy's mouth for many different purposes, including to write a coherent character that acts consistently… and I explained some pages ago why it is in-character for Luffy to make such a comment.
Don't pretend that things are as simple as "luffy says, Oda thinks the same", please.
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well, it wasn't the first time either, I vaguely remember back at Shabaody Luffy saw Bepo and thought to himself or said something like, 'oh yeah, we have one of those in our crew as well'.
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well, it wasn't the first time either, I vaguely remember back at Shabaody Luffy saw Bepo and thought to himself or said something like, 'oh yeah, we have one of those in our crew as well'.
Hey, it's not nice to make up stuff. Luffy never said that. He was just intrigued by Bepo ("huh? the bear too?" after Robin told him that Law was a pirate).
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Oda is the author. He put the words in Luffy's mouth. Luffy didn't magically make that statement on his own without Oda.
Oda could have had Luffy say anything about the minks at all, and have it still be in character. He could have said "It's a whole island of weird people!" Or "This is what lives on an elephant?" or "Wow, I want to eat all of them!" or "These guys look strong!" But no, his very first impression, given by the author, was "these are like Chopper." That's a statement Oda came up with, and that Oda put into Luffy's mouth, very nearly first thing. Not played as a gag, or a back and forth with Chopper, but just as a simple declarative statement. That is how Oda sees them, and that's how Luffy sees them.
Luffy had a stronger reaction to potential ninja, and a stronger reaction to Samurai Girl being cool just a couple chapters ago.
I have to disagree with you here. If you've ever written a story, you know that characters tend to take on a life of their own. Luffy was in tune with his character when he said that and I don't think it was Oda being subtle about it.
The only other frame of reference Luffy has for sentient talking animals is chopper. Every other animal he's come across have either been humans who have eaten DF or people's shadows/parts stuck in animal bodies.
So yeah, it would make sense to equate the minks with chopper.
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Oda is the author and he puts the words in Luffy's mouth for many different purposes, including to write a coherent character that acts consistently… and I explained some pages ago why it is in-character for Luffy to make such a comment.
Don't pretend that things are as simple as "luffy says, Oda thinks the same", please.
So why did Oda choose THAT specific line, THAT comparison? I already gave half a dozen examples of things Luffy could have said that were also in character without immediately blanketing the entire island as also-rans.
It'd be one thing if Luffy said they were all like Chopper a ways in, or if he made the comparison and then Chopper explained the differences, but he didn't. He lumped them all together, and let it sit with no further elaboration. As far as Luffy, and Oda who thought that line was an appropriate first impression, are concerned, they are all "like Chopper." Even their unique transformaton isn't unique, because Chopper can already do that 7 different ways. (ANd notably, Luffy wasn't around to see said transformation, and didn't really comment when Pekoms was doing it.)
If we met an island of cyborgs or an island of skeletons, it'd be the same reaction and rightly so, and none of those similar characters would be under any serious consideration for crew, even if some of them were girls.
And we HAVE been on an island of Fishmen, and Luffy never said anything like "it's an island of Hachis" or "It's an island of Arlongs" or "It's an island of Jimbe's". Neither Luffy, or Oda, ever felt the need to break all fishmen down into a blanket simple comparison.
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I have to disagree with you here. If you've ever written a story, you know that characters tend to take on a life of their own. Luffy was in tune with his character when he said that and I don't think it was Oda being subtle about it.
I've written many stories and have been published many times. Yeah, characters write their own dialogue sometimes. It still comes from within the author.
And while the author will let the character run rampant sometimes and do what they want, they also have to control the worldbuilding and how the audience experiences things for the first time.
The only other frame of reference Luffy has for sentient talking animals is chopper. Every other animal he's come across have either been humans who have eaten DF or people's shadows/parts stuck in animal bodies.
Luffy had met Bepo by that point, an actual Mink, as wall as Masira, and Shoujo who were animal like, and Gaimon's island of half animals, and long animals. Plus a whole bunch of zoans like CP9, plus characters like Pappug and an entire island of Fishmen (who he didn't feel the need to compare all of to Arlong.) and all the surgery monsters of Thriller Bark like Absalom and Punk Hazard like Monet and Brownbeard.
Chopper was NOT his only experience with weird animals, or animal people at that point.
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I've written many stories and have been published many times. Yeah, characters write their own dialogue sometimes. It still comes from within the author.
Luffy had met Bepo by that point, an actual Mink, as wall as Masira, and Shoujo who were animal like. Plus characters like Pappug and an entire island of Fishmen (who he didn't feel the need to compare all of to Arlong.) and all the surgery monsters of Thriller Bark like Absalom and Punk Hazard like Monet and Brownbeard. He'd seen lots of animal people other than Chopper, including an actual Mink.
Chopper was NOT his only experience.
First of all, How do I not know you've written any stories man. Do you mind sending me some links so I can check them out. I would love to read them.
I completely forgot about Bepo(But does Luffy know he's a mink). Pappug and the Fishmen don't really count because they were a well-established race from the beginning(plus they're acquatic). The rest of the examples were artificial and not natural.
Chopper, before the minks, was the only legit sentient animal that Luffy (and by extension the audience) had met because he was once an animal and then he could act like a human. The other ones(except the fishmen) were all humans who could become animals.
So in a way it was Oda's way of saying that the Minks were animals that could act like humans. LIKE Chopper. And not humans becoming animals.
HOW COME LUFFY NEVER KILLS AN ENEMY?
ODA:ITS BECAUSE IN THAT ERA EVERYONE USES THEIR LIVES TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS. FOR AN ENEMY WHEN THEIR DREAM HAS BEEN SHATTERED,IT IS AS PAINFUL AS DEATH,I BELIEVE FOR A PIRATE NOT TO KILL AN ENEMY , IT'S GIVING THEM A SECOND CHANCE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR DREAMS.
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First of all, How do I not know you've written any stories man. Do you mind sending me some links so I can check them out. I would love to read them.
I wrote Ninja High School for about 10 years and a bunch of stuff for Antarctic Press, like Pirates versus Ninjas and the Zombie Recognition Guide, and some how to draw related books, and did editorial on more things than I can even remember.
I completely forgot about Bepo(But does Luffy know he's a mink).
Even if he doesn't know he's a mink specifically, hes met and talked to him, presumably at some length after the war.
Pappug and the Fishmen don't really count because they were a well-established race from the beginning(plus they're acquatic).
Pappug is unique. He is the ONLY talking starfish that we know of in the world, with no real explanation for how that happened beyond i didn't know I wasn't supposed to talk". He is actually more unique than any of the devil fruit characters.
And again, Fishmen were established early, but Luffy never felt the need to compare them all to the first fishman he ever met.
And again, The rest of the examples were artificial and not natural.
Masira and SHoujo were born as gorilla people. And the rest, it doesn't matter that they were artificial or zoans, they were still Luffy being exposed to animal people other than chopper. He could have looked at the island of carnivore animal people including a leopard guy and gone "It's a whole island of Lucchis!" but he didn't.
So in a way it was Oda's way of saying that the Minks were animals that could act like humans. LIKE Chopper. And not humans becoming animals.
Exactly. And that's a very reductive shorthand. Its the author, AND main character, going "you've seen this before, I don't have to explain this now ordinary thing you've already seen that I made special 18 years ago."
Once he's set the precedent that everyone there is like someone already in the crew, he would have to really push someone out to make them different.
Same for an island of cyborgs or skeletons or chefs or shapshooters or navigators, or an island of swordsmen as we are on now. We've seen an island of archeologists and Oda handily pushed Robin front there when she was 8.
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I will wait for Shutenmaru or my beloved Kunoichi
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So why did Oda choose THAT specific line, THAT comparison? I already gave half a dozen examples of things Luffy could have said that were also in character without immediately blanketing the entire island as also-rans.
It'd be one thing if Luffy said they were all like Chopper a ways in, or if he made the comparison and then Chopper explained the differences, but he didn't. He lumped them all together, and let it sit with no further elaboration. As far as Luffy, and Oda who thought that line was an appropriate first impression, are concerned, they are all "like Chopper." Even their unique transformaton isn't unique, because Chopper can already do that 7 different ways. (ANd notably, Luffy wasn't around to see said transformation, and didn't really comment when Pekoms was doing it.)
If we met an island of cyborgs or an island of skeletons, it'd be the same reaction and rightly so, and none of those similar characters would be under any serious consideration for crew, even if some of them were girls.
And we HAVE been on an island of Fishmen, and Luffy never said anything like "it's an island of Hachis" or "It's an island of Arlongs" or "It's an island of Jimbe's". Neither Luffy, or Oda, ever felt the need to break all fishmen down into a blanket simple comparison.
The funny thing is that Luffy's actual statement is showing his intrigue, not his lack of interest: "this island is filled with MISTERY PEOPLE, it's like there's a bunch of Choppers". And throughout that chapter (and Zou, actually) Oda was actually hyping up the minks, like when Zoro was confused about electro, when Franky was impressed with Carrot's jump power and when Law's crew was amazed by the mink's strenght.
The fact that all you can take out of that chapter is Luffy's comparison with Chopper as if Oda (or Luffy) was unimpressed with their concept just shows your bias, actually.
Just to show how dumb it is to put words in the author's mouth because a character made a comment (as if he's whispering what you want to believe in), there is an equally forced argument pro-Carrot. In chapter 858, Carrot was shown admiring the thought of giants actually existing… OMG, Oda is the author and he put those thoughts on Carrot! Why is that? The readers know that giants exist for the longest time, so there's no need for a character to be daydreaming about it unless there is a deeper meaning to it, riiiight? Is it because Carrot is going to Elbaf too?
Or maybe she's just acting in character. There's nothing really to take out of it.
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@K.:
This cover says nothing about either characters joining or not. It is merely portraying the circumstances. Pudding being in the background is appropriate as the cake plot, although important was mostly secondary to the chase. We barely saw the cooking process, etc. On the other hand, Carrot's transformstion was a big event, and it being a transformation, it is correct to showcase her twice. The chase being a more prominent plot, makes the difference between which one is more highlighted.
The cover argument has been mostly compared to the cover where Jimbe is with the crew. The major difference is that no one else beside Jimbe and the entire Straw Hat crew were there. Which makes it stand out more, even if you want to call that a product of circumstance. Not to mention that the FI arc finished on a note where Jimbe was invited to the crew. That was later followed up with Jimbe's sake cup scene, his words to his crew members and Luffy declaring that he is Jimbe's captain now.
WCI ended and Carrot was not asked to join. So is the covwr an indication ofbher joining or just saying that Carrot was going to do something. I go for the latter.
I decided to do a bit of research on the subject. And now, here is every volume cover that features Luffy together with at least one other crewmate and only one other character on the same plain of existence, IE not just in the foreground or background.
*Vol. 78 is the exception, as I’ll explain below.1: L/Z with Nami
3: L/Z
6: L/Z/N/U
9: L/Z/N/U/S
11: L/Z/N/U/S
12: L/Z/N/U/S
17: L/Z/Ch with Wapol and his men in the BG, the same volume Chopper joined
23: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch in the BG with Vivi, the same volume she stayed behind
26: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch/R
28: L/Z/Ch/R in the BG, with Wyper and his warriors on a separate plain in the foreground
32 L/Z/N/U/S/Ch/R
39: L/Z with Franky and with Robin and other characters in the BG
43: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch with Franky
46: L/N/Ch with Brook and with the zombie horde in the BG
50: L/Z/N with Brook, the same volume he joined
52: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch/R/F/B with Rayleigh, the same volume everyone was separated
61: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch/R/F/B
64: L/Z/N/U/S/Ch/R/F/B with Jinbe
71: L/Z/S/F with Kin’emon and with multiple characters in the BG
78: L/Z/U/R/F with seemingly only Law, yet also with the Tontattas in the same plain
81: L/N/S/Ch/B with Momo and with multiple Minks in the BG
88: L/N/S/Ch/B/J with Carrot in the same plain and with Sulong Carrot, Pudding, Bege and Chiffon in the BGOut of that list, the only singular not-yet-SHs who have been portrayed together with Luffy and other crewmates are Nami, Vivi, Franky, Brook, Jinbe, Rayleigh, Kin’emon, Momo and Carrot.
Of those, Nami, Franky and Brook have joined, Jinbe has pledged to, and Vivi is a crewmate in spirit. Meanwhile, Rayleigh is now one of the closest people to Luffy as his mentor, and Momo and Kin’emon remain vital to the current arc. Whether Carrot is joining or not, she has clearly been placed among the upper echelons of such important characters by Oda himself. Pudding simply can’t compare.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
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didnt even noticed Pekoms did Sulong back then, jesus how boring WCI had to be.
thats just further proof that the Sulong will be relevant for Wano as the Minks are getting build up to be natural fighters.I mean even if fake, the Smiles should? be able to do any kind of transformation, like normal zoans can, just in bizarre ways, so at a certain moment in the war the minks will be like, oh look, thr moon, we can transform too.
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Pekoms didn't get to transform into Sulong because the BMP stopped him in the middle of the transformation.
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If Shutenmaru is our next big candidate, I hope he has a unique style and isn't just another bog-standard swordsman. Like he has a Kusarigama, or something.
