Give us a movie of the Yamcha isekai instead.
Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly
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Just to be sure Robby we are talking about Gohan and not mixing him up with Goten right?
Up until Cell he was fine. After that?
I'm gonna go to high school! I'm gonna be a superhero with a secret identity! (Actually one of my favorite arcs in the series but) Wait, I'm actually really weak! But now I'm going to get stronger! I'll be the savior of earth! Oh wait, no, I'm gonna fail and that's gonna be Goku!And then you get to Super with "Toriyama's involvement" and he bounced all over the place.
He knew what to do with kid Gohan. Adult Gohan was a mess. An on-camera mess to be fair, but a mess all the same.
Seems kind of redudant when we already watched him lose to Roshi which I figured was part of the reason Roshi entered into that tournament in the first place for.
Nah. It was a completely EVEN fight, that was the beauty of it.
ANd yeah, having him lose a second time, and in a last second way that wasn't even because of his opponent was surprising and interesting which are most important of all. Plus, if Goku had been "strongest in the world" at that point, it would have made a real mess of what immediately followed with all the Piccollo stuff…. and also made it more potent when Piccollo beat down Tien.
I also like that Goku doesn't win until his third attempt, as the capper for original Dragonball.
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For the record, I do respect Gohan in a character sense. He became a scholar and started a family, and he seems very content that he did so. It's just the constant pingponging of power in Buu and Super just killed any enthusiasm I had to see him fight, ever.
And Goten? What a waste. GT had this thing where he changed his hair to distance himself from being Goku's copy, would've been interesting to see that start to form in Super, but Trunks got more development/screentime between meeting his future self and Mai.
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And Goten? What a waste. GT had this thing where he changed his hair to distance himself from being Goku's copy, would've been interesting to see that start to form in Super, but Trunks got more development/screentime between meeting his future self and Mai.
Goten is leftovers from when Toriyama was taking Goku out of the story permanently. Once Goku was back full time, well…. Goten stopped having any purpose.
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Goten is leftovers from when Toriyama was taking Goku out of the story permanently. Once Goku was back full time, well…. Goten stopped having any purpose.
Ah, it shows. Aside from that heartwarming scene where the two get to meet each other (extended in the anime iirc), the two don't really interact. Most of Goku's lines are directed at Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, or Buu.
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The ToP left off in such an annoying limbo. It neither confirmed nor denied the character arcs some of the characters went through.
Gohan and Krillin most notably. All they need to do is to show that they keep up training now and both characters are believably on track instead of just in the background and have nothing going for them.
That's literally all they need to validate all the time spent developing them. Starting the cycle again for Gohan especially would be extra obnoxious because he got the reminder to keep fighting twice already.
I see people wanting Gohan to randomly turn into the most powerful character again, but all he needs character-wise is to have a direction to stick in. Just have him complete his journey as a fighter while having his scholar interest.
Maybe the rule of three will save Gohan's character? In the new movie, Gohan and Krillin don't need to face off against New!Broly, just have a brief fight with maybe Freeza's lackeys and some scenes showing training would be just fine.
These two bother me the most because they had the most pre-tournament character time and could actually regress in significant ways. The others are fine because they are mostly stagnant, already had their stories told and there's not much else to do with them character-wise (Tien, Yamcha, Piccolo, Roshi, Buu) or have pretty obvious arcs (17, 18, Vegeta)
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The reason Goten exists is to have Trunks fuse with someone.
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High school Gohan and Goten are great characters until the moment Goku comes back into the story.
But when Goku shows up, he sucks up all their screen presence like we all knew he would.
A shame Toriyama wasn't able to stick to his guns on that one.
I wasn't distracted by Lucy being half naked.
You won this week Fairy Tail.
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High school Gohan and Goten are great characters until the moment Goku comes back into the story.
But when Goku shows up, he sucks up all their screen presence like we all knew he would.
A shame Toriyama wasn't able to stick to his guns on that one.
Im not saying it played out that way, but it is hard to stick to your guns when the publisher gets so much say in things.
Life flows on. I'd just go with it, if I were me.
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Im not saying it played out that way, but it is hard to stick to your guns when the publisher gets so much say in things.
Publisher had nothing to do with it. No one could TELL Toriyama what to do at that point. In fact, the freedom he had at that point is why the Buu saga was so wacky.
He just… felt Goku was most appropriate hero.
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Yeah, too goo bad the focus couldn't have shifted to Goku's kids. It could have been a little like Jojo's! RIP character potential of Gohan and Goten.
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Its why that brief period with GOhan in school is one of my favorite parts of the series. WHere he's training Goten and flirting with Videl and doing the stupid Superhero thing… its just so different and a breath of fresh air from everything else in the series. And then....
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I should get a life, but I've often fantasized about just how different I'd have made the Buu saga, and it involves a lot more Gohan and Goten (and Trunks and Piccolo).
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Broly has been the most popular and beloved of the movie villains. Kale was an experiment on if people would want to see more of him, and it was a resounded yes. Broly, like Frieza make buckets of money.
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The movie has been in production since February 2017, which was about the start of the ToP, so I think Kale is a byproduct.
Since Kale is the U6 counterpart, it makes sense U7 would also have their version of it… and for what it's worth, I think Kale is already much better characterized than Broly.
I take timid girl with insecurity problems making steps to overcome it and learn to control her power over muscleman motivated by a infant's crying.
I think it could've been set up and built up much better, but I think it at least makes much more sense. It's not just jealousy over Goku, Kale is in general really insecure.
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Publisher had nothing to do with it. No one could TELL Toriyama what to do at that point. In fact, the freedom he had at that point is why the Buu saga was so wacky.
He just… felt Goku was most appropriate hero.
You may well be right, but I suspect even Oda still answers to his publisher to some extent.
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Gohan was actually a fairly dynamic character at the start of the Buu saga. He was a goofball like Goku but a very different type of goofball (more like Peter Parker as I’ve once mentioned before), which differentiated him from his dad but also kept the typical shonen protag characteristics. “I enjoy fighting, but I don’t live for it and enjoy education more” is also more in line with his pre-Cell Games characterization than “I abhor fighting to the point that I refuse to stand up to this galactic threat”, which was just done for cheap drama.
In Super he’s just a generic serious frowny face person, indistinguishable from someone like Tenshinhan. No wonder nobody likes him anymore.
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Wait, how is the Saiyaman two-parter and Trunks episode "serious frowny-face person"?
He's a genuinely good dad juggling his desire to help people as Great Saiyaman, being a martial artist and a scholar.
In fact, I'm pretty happy he was one of the characters who took the threat of his universe being erased seriously. His call for teamwork tactics is what ultimately won the tournament even if he didn't.
Piccolo said to not let his strength get to his head and it didn't.
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Up until Cell he was fine. After that?
I'm gonna go to high school! I'm gonna be a superhero with a secret identity! (Actually one of my favorite arcs in the series but) Wait, I'm actually really weak! But now I'm going to get stronger! I'll be the savior of earth! Oh wait, no, I'm gonna fail and that's gonna be Goku!That's truthfully a lot better then what happened to Yamcha
Desert Bandit > Guy who wants to conquer his fear of girls > Practicing Martial Artist > Jobber > Baseball Player > Jobber > Jobber > Jobber > Meme > Grown man in his 40's that lives with an anthropomorphic cat.
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I think Toriyama only cares about Goku and Vegeta.
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I think Toriyama only cares about Goku and Vegeta.
And Bulma. He definitely seems to still care about Bulma.
And him liking Vegeta must be a more recent trend because he clearly hated him during Z, given… basically everything Vegeta did or had done to him. He does work as a solid counterpoint to Goku, at least.
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Focusing on a few specific characters and the movie's villain is also better for a movie format, which Super works on. Each arc is like a new movie.
Still would be nice if Vegeta were occasionally swapped out to some other character or Goku took a backseat for a little bit at least.
I still really like that Freeza and 17 were the final ones standing aside from Goku in the ToP.
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I really like the idea of Broly or someone similar joining the Z Fighters and making a Saiyan Trio.
Goku would be the balanced fighter, Vegeta focusing in speed and Broly being the stongest, but slowest fighter.
And Trunks being the guy with the sword.
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Give him a personality first before that happens.
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I really like the idea of Broly or someone similar joining the Z Fighters and making a Saiyan Trio.
I know Gohan keeps getting shafted but come on!
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LSSJ back to golden hair. And love his new outfit
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Do you mean the sticker design or something else?
It's still pretty green.
I think it looks like puke. The base with the armour in the trailer looks remarkably better. But then again, I've always been pretty meh on his design.
The super bulky SSJ forms all look really ugly to me - the Ultra SSJ trunks did and the like.
I like the wierd/lean designs like imperfect Cell and final form Freeza much better.
On the plus side, I still like the prescence of the fur coat and it looks like he really is pretty scarred. It does feel like there is a more complicated story going on with him.
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Do you mean the sticker design or something else?
[qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dh9zlGXXUAAtNUL?format=jpg[/qimg]
It's still pretty green.
I think it looks like puke. The base with the armour in the trailer looks remarkably better. But then again, I've always been pretty meh on his design.
The super bulky SSJ forms all look really ugly to me - the Ultra SSJ trunks did and the like.
I like the wierd/lean designs like imperfect Cell and final form Freeza much better.
On the plus side, I still like the prescence of the fur coat and it looks like he really is pretty scarred. It does feel like there is a more complicated story going on with him.
Looks yellow for me but I will wait for a clearer pic.
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You think so? We'll see, I guess.
I still can't believe the next movie is a Broly movie.
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Broly = what to do when you are creatively bankrupt.
I truly hope toriyama can make him an actual character that I can care about a little. But seeing how Super was so shallow and overall lame, and basically just living of nostalgia for the series, cause it sure ain't the good writing, I don't have high hopes.
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Dragon Ball hasn't had good writing in forever. People watch it for other reasons mostly.
Broly is awesome.
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The editorial department wanted Broli because of how popular he is. Toriyama's developed his own story using the character which will probably be good, especially if there aren't any creative restrictions placed upon Nagamine Tatsuya in developing the story further. While I definitely want Kale and Caulifla to remain the only new Saiyans for a while so long as this Broli film is good I can get over it. I really want to see Kale and Caulifla get their own series, preferably by one of Toei Animation's best series directors. Their girl-centric series have been their best works for the past fifteen years.
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I prefer the big pants over these tight Saiyan pants.
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The film is going to be released stateside only a few weeks after it comes out in Japan so I'm guessing his popularity over here also played a role.
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Those tight pants make me wish [redacted]
Oh, yeah, the plot. It should be good. I think Nagamine's put a lot of effort into this movie.
. Yama'uchi directed the first two Broli films and is regarded as one of the best directors to come out of Toei Animation. Most of the modern generation of directors at Toei are either his peers or his followers. Since we now know that Broli is the antagonist of this film I think Nagamine was trying to get a feel for how Yama'uchi felt about Broli and tried to portray him. It really makes me wish that Yama'uchi could come back to the franchise. He left after the Tenth Anniversary film and the Doctor Slump series in 1997. Since then his directing skills have become even sharper. Casshern SINS is a a straight up masterpiece passion project and his two Digimon films blow my mind on every level.
She/Her
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@Yuugi's:
Those tight pants make me wish they could….
Please don't go into that territory again. It's really not appropriate.
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Good direction can't ultimately save terrible writing, so, uh, I mostly hope the character they have for Broly is good. DB always had messy plotting - it basically lives off of it's characters.
Like even a simple thing such as shifting the blame of whatever was done to Broly to another character like King Vegeta or Bardock even, would make for a more compelling character. In fact, I think the scars he has are made by some character in the past.
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Good direction can't ultimately save terrible writing, so, uh, I mostly hope the character they have for Broly is good. DB always had messy plotting - it basically lives off of it's characters.
Like even a simple thing such as shifting the blame of whatever was done to Broly to another character like King Vegeta or Bardock even, would make for a more compelling character. In fact, I think the scars he has are made by some character in the past.
Good directing changes the writing. Hosoda basically rewrote One Piece Movie #6 when drawing his storyboard. A good direct conveys their ideas through more than just writing.
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Sure, you can save a story in terms of execution, I agree with that, but I think there's a limit to that.
Like, I think Guilty Crown was a really well directed series, but nothing saves wierd incest romance. I think no matter how well you present Broly's current backstory, for example, it won't get better. So I think it has to be changed narratively.
Sometimes the ideas are just that bad. -
Sure, you can save a story in terms of execution, I agree with that, but I think there's a limit to that.
Like, I think Guilty Crown was a really well directed series, but nothing saves wierd incest romance. I think no matter how well you present Broly's current backstory, for example, it won't get better. So I think it has to be changed narratively.
Sometimes the ideas are just that bad.Well, Game of thrones is one of the most popular series out there.
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Doesn't mean it's good. (Never seen GoT, but that does not make me watch it.) Naruto and Bleach are also popular and I don't like them. I mean you can still like stuff with questionable stuff in it, but I still think sometimes the idea can be so bad there's nothing to salvage.
I don't think the DBS movie will have something like that - at worst I see it being an okay action movie at best something really great. There is enough time going into this thing for me to believe that. You just don't iniate a complete style change without putting some time and effort into it.
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Spoiler for next year!
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This post is deleted!
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Okay, I still don't know about the berserk form or the color scheme, but as a whole this base looks great.
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! For the berserk form
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Okay, I still don't know about the berserk form or the color scheme, but as a whole this base looks great.
! [qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiL2gMtW0AEaWzo?format=jpg[/qimg]
! For the berserk form
! [qimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiL4z0TWkAE2gwR?format=jpg[/qimg]As I said… Golden hair <3
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Shintani Naohiro's designs look gorgeous in figure form. Look at those thighs!
Whenever we get the next trailer I hope we get to see some nice shots of the characters moving more and not just stills. I want to see how they move when in the hands of great animators.
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That looks pretty light green to me. Those purple pants really are wierd to me, but I dig the scars and yellow eyes, though.
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One has the yellow one, the other has the green one. The yellow one is Toyotarou's version.
I dunno what it is specifically, but this design is much more pleasant to look at in general. It feels more proportionate? Less puppety? His chin was always so wierdly massive and face crunched together in the upper half of his face in the older designs.
Those blue pants there on base Broly look nicer than the purple ones. I've seen the theory around that he's now a part of the Freeza force and that's why there's the purple motiv with him - the armour looks like the one on the other minions.
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That purple and green combo is just weird. They CAN be a good combo, but not there so much. The red and white was way better.
