@TheSonofBattles:
I disagree. The wheel is a very simple invention. Doesn't take anything away from its ingenuity.
That's an inanimate object, not a metaphysical entity bound to a mortal body like we humans are. We can't call a wheel "stupid" because it doesn't think at all.
@TheSonofBattles:
So because some stupid things are also simple, everything simple is stupid?
That's an incorrect syllogism, partially because you're missing a second argument. I should say,
1. All cognitively simple people are stupid.
2. Luffy is cognitively simple.
3. Therefore, Luffy is stupid.
However, the reverse, with "all stupid people are cognitively simple" doesn't work at all.
@TheSonofBattles:
He's also smart with people, in his simple way. As shown by his interactions with Vivi in the desert amongst others.
Charisma/bravado. Linked to emotions and not to the reasoning brain.
@TheSonofBattles:
And he's not helpless at anything except fighting. He's useless at a lot of stuff, but even helpless as he was at the start of the story he's managed to use his streghts to go out to sea and not drown or be killed outright despite his lack of knowledge of all things marine.
By his own admission, Luffy would probably die without his crewmates taking care of him. He's their moral/literal compass as well as top fighter, but beyond that he's just a virtual child; children cannot take care of themselves.
@TheSonofBattles:
Intelligence doesn't nessecairily come only in the form of knowledge and observation is my point. Someone can have a low IQ and miss stuff thats right in front of their face, and most shonen stars do, this doesn't mean they are stupid.
I understand that, but do not confuse intelligence with skill or experience. Even a dumb person can work hard and accomplish the same stuff as a smart person to who said stuff comes easily; Luffy trained himself for ten years and had Ace to guide him. While we might call him a incredibly imaginative fighter, he's developed personal skills and has a load of experience to give him insight in battle.
@TheSonofBattles:
Right, cause we all know building up a globe spanning, underground organisation of pirates, mercaneries and all round bad guys bent on world domination while keeping your true purpose secret to one and all is usually an easy thing. Croc was the one villian doing it who had it hard.
Croc's ambition was greater than his reality, which is why he had to struggle a lot more. Luffy's isn't; until he met Croc, he had a relatively easy time crushing everyone he fought under his thumbnail. In essence, yes, Croc and Krieg were the only villans who had a tough time; we know Ener was a decent warrior but lost most of his skills after getting his fruit, and we also know Lucci and Arlong were born physical monsters. Croc and Krieg were normal guys who became monsters just to reach the top of their respective food chains.
@TheSonofBattles:
As for the physical scars. Wow, we know he faught a lot. Mindblowing. I'm sure we can't say that about a lot of the other villians :wassat:
You mean Lucci's scars? They're meaningless as far as this argument goes, since we know how he got them and how powerful he was at the time.
@TheSonofBattles:
Not really. Since pretty much all of what you said is conjecture, and very loose conjecture at that.
I've been getting this a lot. We're on a friggin' forum for crying out loud; unless something is stated directly in the manga or we have concrete hard data to support something, everything is conjecture and the sum value of our discussions are zero. It's all for fun.
@TheSonofBattles:
All of this is a whole lot of nothing. You're comparing the wrong aspects of Lucchi. I'm not saying he started out idealistic and wanting to be Pirate King.
I'm saying he has the same level of physical skill and strenght, the same determination to walk the earth if nessecary in pursuit of a goal, something that was specifically stated several times in the manga in fact. And something we have proof of in how long he stayed in Water 7. That side of Lucchi is whats comparable to Luffy.
Croc is like an older, more sinister version of him mentally. Lucchi is like him in much more primal, physical way.
You don't get it. With some many diverse characters in OP it's not unusual for characters to share traits. Saying Lucci is like Luffy because he has "determination" is silly becase he failed, therefore his conviction was weak. I'm arguing that of all the villans, Croc was most simmilar to Luffy based on the speculation I gave earlier; he's like a disillusioned future self come to kill his previous existence.
Just…play/watch Fate/stay night then come talk to me. It's helps if one recognizes what I'm coming from.
@TheSonofBattles:
Thats nice, but I was never talking about "Divergance of Dreams".
What were we talking about again? I forgot. ~.~;