Jack is essentially a blonde Kaido with braids.
That's like saying Crocodile is basically Morgan with black hair.
Jack is essentially a blonde Kaido with braids.
That's like saying Crocodile is basically Morgan with black hair.
@Count:
Logias can release their element outside of their body for attacks (but not have it be a part of their "true body", like Crocodile sending a sandstorm to Yuba) and expand their "true body" into different sizes and shapes, including holes for natural intangibility/dodging. What Katakuri did is literally separate a part of his "true body" and regrow it. Which prompts questions of how far his unique form of regeneration can be used when he is being harmed. But like Greg said, this fits in with the unique qualities of Paramecias being able to conjure things out of thin air a lot with absurd thematic concepts to the point of often being broken.
I just see those as being extensions of the body portions they grow from. What he did there isn't actually that different from what a Logia can do, like how Crocodile can summon giant axe-shaped sand attacks called Sables. It's also the same way that Caesar and Smoker can stretch themselves as Logias. So I don't see it corresponding to the original arm at all like how Robin's Devil Fruit works.
My only question is pain distribution throughout a Logia's body when they have extended themselves and get hit with Haki, whether it's treated like a regular hit or more small. There was this villain in Yu Yu Hakusho who could shape shift, and if you cut his enlarged arm with a sword, he would just shrink back to his normal human form to reveal it did damage equivalent to a paper cut because of how much he stretched out his body. Meaning that you need bigger weapons to take on bigger versions of him to do proportional damage. But I think that the Luffy vs Caesar and Smoker vs Vergo fights confirmed that a powerful Haki hit is a powerful Haki hit no matter the side of the Logia body. Which makes sense considering how many times Luffy and other strong characters can obliterate large characters multiple times their size.
No matter what though, the pain should at least transfer since Katakuri was making all of those holes in his body by using his foresight to predict Luffy's attacks. There would be no point in doing that if Luffy's Haki attacks wouldn't hurt him, so extra mochi arms couldn't really be an exception.
regarding the second point I remember and checked ch 690 which had vergo chiding smoker for expanding his surface area vs a skilled haki user before giving hjm a huge blow to the stomach.
I wonder if Absalom was there during wedding. Or if he was on Zou.
Moria and Crocodile being in alliance and showing up in Wano would be very cool.
Imagine Croc showing up this arc to take revenge or sth. on Bege (those two are both too Mafia to not be connected to each other somehow).
This would be a WTF-appearance like Kuma had on TB.
About the Jack-Thing:
Don't get me wrong, I am not claiming to be right, but IMHO it'd be just cooler if he was a "mere" human. If it will be executed different, so be it.
Moria and Barto have sharp teeth as well. Half-fishman would be OK for me.
Still hope Vasco is a fishman though.
Commanders have to be very powerful, which brings me to the "Jack-is-a-fishman-debate".
I doubt it and I think he can just hold his breath for a very Long time. This would also indicate, that you just cannot toss a DF-using commander into the ocean to get rid of him. And if he was a fishman, why should his goons hurry to save him? He could stay there forever and not die if he was a fishman. Bigger question is: who is the traitor among the minks?
Jack ain't a fishman for me.
Wasn't Van Der Decken a fishman that had DF therefore he couldn't swim. I'm pretty sure that was a thing.
About the Jack-Thing:
Don't get me wrong, I am not claiming to be right, but IMHO it'd be just cooler if he was a "mere" human. If it will be executed different, so be it.
Moria and Barto have sharp teeth as well. Half-fishman would be OK for me.
Still hope Vasco is a fishman though.
I think it would cheapen the handicap of having a Devil Fruit too much, personally.
@Count:
I think it would cheapen the handicap of having a Devil Fruit too much, personally.
Yeah it'd be a big of a slap to say extrememly traned df users can stay underwater for days and even swim, its a weird drawback but id hate for some odd retcon
@Long:
regarding the second point I remember and checked ch 690 which had vergo chiding smoker for expanding his surface area vs a skilled haki user before giving hjm a huge blow to the stomach.
Thank you, I vaguely remembered a moment like that.
I am from the Half-Fishman Camp.
Quarter-fishman camp. I expect him to be the same as Delinger. A descendant of some violent fish/fishmen line.
Something to keep in mind about the change to Katakuri's fruit.
While it is entirely possible that it was a retcon, it's just as likely that it was an editorial error.
These things have happened before and there's even one example of lore-related data I know of that, due to the nature of its revelation, (and as it's not a vital piece of the story) has not been given an opportunity to be fixed.
In other words, we may never know the story behind it but Oda is usually pretty vocal when the blame is on him. For example, mentioning the recent mistake of Charlotte daughter order.
@Count:
I think it would cheapen the handicap of having a Devil Fruit too much, personally.
Stupid question but since Luffy's stretchiness doesn't get halted by being underwater, would someone like Katakuri, who can conjure mochi out of thin air, be able to use that to elevate him out of whatever body of water has engulfed him? Same with Doflamingo, since it doesn't look like he even needs to move his fingers to control his strings, and they can reel him up like his own fishing line. Or Ms. Valentine making herself so light she floats to the surface? Or Oven heating up the water til it all evaporates so he's no longer underwater? Or Wapol drinking all of it (or does he need to move to do that?)
Also curious if Big Mom being underwater and paralyzed would render Zeus, Prometheus and Napoleon immobile and impotent.
Stupid question but since Luffy's stretchiness doesn't get halted by being underwater, would someone like Katakuri, who can conjure mochi out of thin air, be able to use that to elevate him out of whatever body of water has engulfed him? Same with Doflamingo, since it doesn't look like he even needs to move his fingers to control his strings, and they can reel him up like his own fishing line. Or Ms. Valentine making herself so light she floats to the surface? Or Oven heating up the water til it all evaporates so he's no longer underwater? Or Wapol drinking all of it (or does he need to move to do that?)
Also curious if Big Mom being underwater and paralyzed would render Zeus, Prometheus and Napoleon immobile and impotent.
A devil fruit user can't use his power while submerged. A swordsman would separate Buggy in water but Buggy himself would not be able to separate his body. They don't lose the power but they are unable to use it.
I wonder what Crocodile's reaction was to Luffy defeating Dofla. I hope Croc is training his ass off. I want him to be a major player again. Same with Enel
With Pekoms missing, I could see him going to see Pedro's remains. If Pedro is alive, then Pekoms knows his fate after doing what he did to Perospero. So he takes him through Brulee's house and is sees the aftermath of Luffy and Katakuri.
I wonder what Crocodile's reaction was to Luffy defeating Dofla. I hope Croc is training his ass off. I want him to be a major player again. Same with Enel
I would think he wouldn't be too surprise. Last time he met Luffy he broke in and out of an unbreakable prison.
A devil fruit user can't use his power while submerged. A swordsman would separate Buggy in water but Buggy himself would not be able to separate his body. They don't lose the power but they are unable to use it.
Was that confirmed? I don't remember hearing about that in the manga (although admittedly it hasn't really had occasion to come up much). I know Seastone does take away their ability entirely but it doesn't hinder their mobility, so it's a little unclear why the actual sea does one thing but seastone does another, ergo my wondering to what extent being submerged affects their usage of ability given the odd imbalance between its effects and being exposed to seastone.
I wonder what Crocodile's reaction was to Luffy defeating Dofla. I hope Croc is training his ass off. I want him to be a major player again. Same with Enel
Did the Marines not try to cover up Luffy's involvement this time? It's been a while since Dressrosa concluded so I can't remember details like that. But I definitely agree about Croc, he's one I want to see return, I'm kind of curious as to how he's turned things around after being freed. Is he going back to pirating or being less of a crook? In either case I can see him being one of the opposition forces against Kaido. Enel, I'm not too wild about returning. Even for having only one natural enemy in the world, he's still crazy OP.
Was that confirmed? I don't remember hearing about that in the manga (although admittedly it hasn't really had occasion to come up much). I know Seastone does take away their ability entirely but it doesn't hinder their mobility, so it's a little unclear why the actual sea does one thing but seastone does another, ergo my wondering to what extent being submerged affects their usage of ability given the odd imbalance between its effects and being exposed to seastone.
I think that sbs is pretty definite
D: Odacchi! Here's a question for you! Crocodile can't fight water because he's "sand," right? Then how does he bathe?! Does he at all?! That's filthy!! Do you bathe, Odacchi? by Crocodile's Mother
O: First of all, let's discuss the problem of Devil Fruit users bathing themselves. People who have eaten a Devil Fruit are "hated" by the sea, and cannot swim. The "sea" here can refer to anything from rivers, pools and baths to any kind of standing water. On a worldwide level, they are all the "sea." When these people enter the water, not only can they not use their powers, they have trouble moving their bodies at all. They might be able to struggle a bit, but it wouldn't do much good. That's if their entire bodies are submerged in the "sea." With less than half the body or just the limbs, it gets easier. Also, rain and dripping water have no effect at all. Therefore, hip baths or showers are the most common choice. Now, in Crocodile's case, "water" is the weakness of his very powers, so his abilities are robbed even in the shower. But it's not like there are enemies around when you take a shower, so I'd bet he would take them even with his powers being blocked. Don't you think? –-And to answer your final question, about myself bathing. As it happens, I do bathe. Twice! In a year!
Gak!
Its midnight on my part of the world, and no spoilers for next chapter yet!
I'm fine with waiting for Friday, since it's seemed to be flip-flopping the past couple months, but I was always used to getting spoilers on Wednesday-Thursday at 12AM.
Something to keep in mind about the change to Katakuri's fruit.
While it is entirely possible that it was a retcon, it's just as likely that it was an editorial error.
These things have happened before and there's even one example of lore-related data I know of that, due to the nature of its revelation, (and as it's not a vital piece of the story) has not been given an opportunity to be fixed.
In other words, we may never know the story behind it but Oda is usually pretty vocal when the blame is on him. For example, mentioning the recent mistake of Charlotte daughter order.
Let's go to a cave, let's return 20 yrs later and then keep reading where we left One Piece.
Oda doesn't make mistakes, it's WSJ.
Sereboy, blame Smoker, he's guilty on why "floating donuts spurting Haki punches are valid" case.
Was that confirmed? I don't remember hearing about that in the manga (although admittedly it hasn't really had occasion to come up much). I know Seastone does take away their ability entirely but it doesn't hinder their mobility, so it's a little unclear why the actual sea does one thing but seastone does another, ergo my wondering to what extent being submerged affects their usage of ability given the odd imbalance between its effects and being exposed to seastone.
Did the Marines not try to cover up Luffy's involvement this time? It's been a while since Dressrosa concluded so I can't remember details like that. But I definitely agree about Croc, he's one I want to see return, I'm kind of curious as to how he's turned things around after being freed. Is he going back to pirating or being less of a crook? In either case I can see him being one of the opposition forces against Kaido. Enel, I'm not too wild about returning. Even for having only one natural enemy in the world, he's still crazy OP.
The Marines were unable to cover up Dressrosa because of Fujitora's broadcast and bow of apology. This led to an argument between Fujitora and Akainu, and Akainu banning Fujitora from every Marine base until he captured Luffy and Law.
Stupid question but since Luffy's stretchiness doesn't get halted by being underwater, would someone like Katakuri, who can conjure mochi out of thin air, be able to use that to elevate him out of whatever body of water has engulfed him? Same with Doflamingo, since it doesn't look like he even needs to move his fingers to control his strings, and they can reel him up like his own fishing line. Or Ms. Valentine making herself so light she floats to the surface? Or Oven heating up the water til it all evaporates so he's no longer underwater? Or Wapol drinking all of it (or does he need to move to do that?).
A devil fruit user can't use his power while submerged. A swordsman would separate Buggy in water but Buggy himself would not be able to separate his body. They don't lose the power but they are unable to use it.
Was that confirmed? I don't remember hearing about that in the manga (although admittedly it hasn't really had occasion to come up much).
We actually get to see this in action early on, during the Arlong Park arc. Remember when Arlong took the foot-trapped Luffy and threw him into the bay? Luffy couldn't stretch himself but Genzo & Nojiko swam down, grabbed his head and pulled it up to the surface where they held it above water so he wouldn't drown. Luffy was pretty much out of it and wasn't communicating at all.
During the FI arc, when the New Fishman Pirates flooded the throne room with some Strawhats there, Brook clearly said as the water was rising that he was getting weak. It didn't take the powers away but makes the DF user too weak to move on their own.
Gak!
Its midnight on my part of the world, and no spoilers for next chapter yet!
I'm fine with waiting for Friday, since it's seemed to be flip-flopping the past couple months, but I was always used to getting spoilers on Wednesday-Thursday at 12AM.
Spoilers are out!
@Long:
Yeah it'd be a big of a slap to say extrememly traned df users can stay underwater for days and even swim, its a weird drawback but id hate for some odd retcon
I did not say Jack can swim. But if he can't swim anyway, then where is the Point of him being a fishman? I know, the Long hair and the shark teeth Point at fishman (a heck-load of fishmen have Long hair) and I even take out Barto of the count (cause his teeth is just sharp, but not shark-ish). But still, for Jack's badassery-lvl, I'd rather having him as human. Quite the same badassery Rayleigh has shown Swimming through the Calm Belt.
I did not say Jack can swim. But if he can't swim anyway, then where is the Point of him being a fishman? I know, the Long hair and the shark teeth Point at fishman (a heck-load of fishmen have Long hair) and I even take out Barto of the count (cause his teeth is just sharp, but not shark-ish). But still, for Jack's badassery-lvl, I'd rather having him as human. Quite the same badassery Rayleigh has shown Swimming through the Calm Belt.
The point is for him not to die from drowning because he is a devil fruit user. That way Oda can bring him back.
Wasn't Van Der Decken a fishman that had DF therefore he couldn't swim. I'm pretty sure that was a thing.
Nice side-note:
Dekken IX is 255/256-fishman (if Dekken I was pure human and everyone else in Dekken bloodline was fishman).
Here is the linage:
I = pure human
II = 1/2 fishman
III = 3/4 fishman
IV = 7/8 fishman
V = 15/16 fishman
VI = 31/32 fishman
VII = 63/64 fishman
VIII = 127/128 fishman
IX = 255/256 fishman
for Comparison: Chimney, Cocoro's grandchild was 1/4 mermaid and a damn good swimmer.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@K.:
The point is for him not to die from drowning because he is a devil fruit user. That way Oda can bring him back.
Yeah, but if he was human and could hold his breath for so Long until his goons save him, that would make him more badass IMHO.
I get that, not sure how I would receive that. It treads the line between badass and ridiculous for the sake of it. Not sure how to explain it.
@K.:
I get that, not sure how I would receive that. It treads the line between badass and ridiculous for the sake of it. Not sure how to explain it.
Fighting for days without break whereas the enemy Switches the fight Partner also sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?
And so does Swimming through the calm belt while pwning sea Monsters, but that is the power-lvl we are speaking of.
I'd be OK if he was a fishman, no hard Feelings. Partly fishman would even be better, cause he had no fins between his fingers iirc.
If he was a fishman, he could also talk to the fishes there:"go Show them goons where I am, so they can save me."
Additionally, we saw different reactions to seastone:
Luffy almost fainted from touching it, whereas Marco could move around and yell at People. Maybe there are different levels of purity for seastone. And also Robin was able to move after all.
Fighting for days without break whereas the enemy Switches the fight Partner sounds alsoridiculous, doesn't it?
And so does Swimming through the calm belt while pwning sea Monsters, but that isthe power-lvl we are speaking of.
I'd be OK if he was a fishman, no hard Feelings. Partly fishman would even be better, cause he had no fins between his fingers iirc.
But none of that openly spits in the face of a hard rule Oda's been enforcing throughout the entire series though. Fighting for days is just the next level of fighting between powerful people. Swimming through the Calm Belt and beating up Sea Kings while having NO DEVIL FRUIT, albeit surreal, is still technically possible given all of the absurd fighting we've seen from humans in this series since Luffy punched a Sea King at the end of Chapter 1.
Holding your breath for a long time against a big weakness Oda keeps bringing up in comparison seems rather… random? Nobody in this series is tested based on how long they can hold their breath. Unless they're fighting a Fishman. Like with Luffy vs Arlong, Sanji vs Kuroobi, Zoro vs Hody, and Luffy vs Hody. So if there was a character that could mysteriously still survive underwater for hours/days on end without being able to move... wouldn't that be an obvious implication of them actually being related to Fishman somehow? Add in how we've already seen Fishman with Devil Fruits like Vander Decken IX and Fishman/Human hybrids like Dellinger, and there you go!
Pretty much what count said, those things tread that line, but go in line with the concept of strength, and the exagerattion of it.
Holding out their breath like that would be similar to Rouge's pregnancy, although that is tried to explain through the exagerattion of willpower.
He could be part Fishman.
@Count:
But none of that openly spits in the face of a hard rule Oda's been enforcing throughout the entire series though. Fighting for days is just the next level of fighting between powerful people. Swimming through the Calm Belt and beating up Sea Kings while having NO DEVIL FRUIT, albeit surreal, is still technically possible given all of the absurd fighting we've seen from humans in this series since Luffy punched a Sea King at the end of Chapter 1.
Holding your breath for a long time against a big weakness Oda keeps bringing up in comparison seems rather… random? Nobody in this series is tested based on how long they can hold their breath. Unless they're fighting a Fishman. Like with Luffy vs Arlong, Sanji vs Kuroobi, Zoro vs Hody, and Luffy vs Hody. So if there was a character that could mysteriously still survive underwater for hours/days on end without being able to move... wouldn't that be an obvious implication of them actually being related to Fishman somehow? Add in how we've already seen Fishman with Devil Fruits like Vander Decken IX and Fishman/Human hybrids like Dellinger, and there you go!
Hybrid would be totally fine. Another issue I have with Jack being a fishman is how they treated the minks. On the other Hand there might be a traitor-Mink and Apoo is a Long-arm. But if Jack was a fishman, it would also slap Jinbe. Strawberry's speech about him ("what a beast!") would be kinda pointless, if there were fishmen like Jack out there, way stronger than Jinbe. Vasco is a different Story: he got locked up some time ago, so someone defeated him (or catched him during a hangover). A hybrid like Dellinger would be good, a nice compromise for Jack.
This discussion about a villain's race reminds me of disappointed I still am that we haven't seen a villainous Dwarf yet aside from that cameo in one panel of this arc.
Man, if Oda makes Blackbeard's Tenth Titanic Captain a Dwarf, that would be so beautiful…
@Count:
This discussion about a villain's race reminds me of disappointed I still am that we haven't seen a villainous Dwarf yet aside from that cameo in one panel of this arc.
Man, if Oda makes Blackbeard's Tenth Titanic Captain a Dwarf, that would be so beautiful…
No matter how funny the idea is, I can't even imagine an evil dwarf. Their naivity might not even allow evil thoughts. They believe anything you tell them.
No matter how funny the idea is, I can't even imagine an evil dwarf. Their naivity might not even allow evil thoughts. They believe anything you tell them.
Dude, imagine that a Dwarf becomes one of Blackbeard's core commanders because he gets convinced that all of the crimes they're doing are for the benefit of the world. That would be hilarious.
@Count:
Dude, imagine that a Dwarf becomes one of Blackbeard's core commanders because he gets convinced that all of the crimes they're doing are for the benefit of the world. That would be hilarious.
That would indeed be hilarious! BB can give good motivational speeches about fate and whatnot. An enemy for Leo then or someone less obvious?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I just thought, that, if Moria really appears at Wano (which I hope), we probably have some funny moments between Law and Hogback too.
That would indeed be hilarious! BB can give good motivational speeches about fate and whatnot. An enemy for Leo then or someone less obvious?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I just thought, that, if Moria really appears at Wano (which I hope), we probably have some funny moments between Law and Hogback too.
how do we even know that Law knows who Hogback is ?
how do we even know that Law knows who Hogback is ?
Hogback is the most famus doctor in the whole world.
It's like if an art student didn't knew who Leonardo Da Vinci was.
Hogback is the most famus doctor in the whole world.
It's like if an art student didn't knew who Leonardo Da Vinci was.
didn't chopper just say he was a famous doctor ?
didn't chopper just say he was a famous doctor ?
The world-renowed doctor that saved as many lives as the stars.
That's world-class shit here.