Are we sure that pumpkin head thing is even a homie?
I say no. Even though he/it looks too much like a scarecrow that has a strong resemblance to Haruta of WB pirates, we can't be sure if he's a homie or real boy.
Are we sure that pumpkin head thing is even a homie?
I say no. Even though he/it looks too much like a scarecrow that has a strong resemblance to Haruta of WB pirates, we can't be sure if he's a homie or real boy.
If Pedro's sacrifice was THE defining escape, the moment that let the entire crew get away free and clear, it could almost work. (If not for the fact its Sanji's fault he was there in the first place.)
But as something that just gets away from a minion without dealing with any of the big problems or allowing real breathing room for more than two minutes? That's not the kind of thing Oda lets characters die for.
Ace's death was a major life changing moment for Luffy, and Whitebeard's death was a major shaking of the world, not to mention an escalation of Blackbeard's power. What does Pedro dying, against a thing that had been a threat for two pages, actually provide? When its a storypoint Oda wrote so he could have introduced any number of solutions, or just not done it at all?
It's there to ramp up tension and show there are stakes in this before the big guys come along and things got even worse… it is not a major event that changes everything or even serves as the climax of the arc. It's just a random pointless death... and Oda doesn't deal in those.
Perospero is getting knocked out in one of 2 following chapters, anyway.
Oh come on, we all know Perospero will be doing the kickline with Capone, Katakuri and Carrot once sanji makes the best cake ever :ninja:
I'm gonna throw out a prediction about Pedro. When Big Mom finally eats the Super-Cake, it's going to be so damn good, it literally knocks her out and like with Shiki/Sugar/Moriah/etc, her powers shut off for a little bit and those people whose lifespans have been stolen get it back, Pedro/Moscato/Opera included. And that lifespan return saves Pedro's life from the bomb.
If Pedro's sacrifice was THE defining escape, the moment that let the entire crew get away free and clear, it could almost work. (If not for the fact its Sanji's fault he was there in the first place.)
But as something that just gets away from a minion without dealing with any of the big problems or allowing real breathing room for more than two minutes? That's not the kind of thing Oda lets characters die for.
Ace's death was a major life changing moment for Luffy, and Whitebeard's death was a major shaking of the world, not to mention an escalation of Blackbeard's power. What does Pedro dying, against a thing that had been a threat for two pages, actually provide? When its a storypoint Oda wrote so he could have introduced any number of solutions, or just not done it at all?
It's there to ramp up tension and show there are stakes in this before the big guys come along and things got even worse… it is not a major event that changes everything or even serves as the climax of the arc. It's just a random pointless death... and Oda doesn't deal in those.
I'm warming up to the idea big mom will be the one to revive pedro.
As we already know her fruit is really strong and it will keep the stakes up for the crew there going forth that someone close to them died or "alternatively" would have died if not for his soul being taken out if their enemy didn't help them. A kind of " we wont be so lucky going forth" type deal.
Would you appreciate that compared to less explained fake-outs I think I'd be fine with it.
Would be much better than no explanation like pell or unseen character swooshed right in
@Long:
I'm warming up to the idea big mom will be the one to revive pedro.
As we already know her fruit is really strong and it will keep the stakes up for the crew there going forth that someone close to them died or "alternatively" would have died if not for his soul being taken out if their enemy didn't help them. A kind of " we wont be so lucky going forth" type deal.
Would you appreciate that compared to less explained fake-outs I think I'd be fine with it.
Would be much better than no explanation like pell or unseen character swooshed right in
Her soul powers don't work on corpses. Pound said that back at the start of the arc.
I personally think that Pekoms will find him and help him recover.
Her soul powers don't work on corpses. Pound said that back at the start of the arc.
I personally think that Pekoms will find him and help him recover.
Well pound did say that but theres a difference between putting any old soul into some corpse and the soul back into their own body I imagine, the main point was brought up by oda to make big mom not look like a moriah 2.0or wonder why she didnt use dead bodies instead of inanimate objects.
@K.:
It is not "just stumble". I'll put it this way. Pekoms stayed in the capital. After a while you see Prometheus burning the seducing woods. Minutes later Zeus's thunderbolt. Everyone in Big Mom's crew believed they were done for. Afterwards there is a huge explosion coming from the coast. Obviously there is still resistance, which means that even though Mama is attacking the Straw Hats live. The Big Mom pirates are passing information to everyone to stay coordinated. In a report it is announced that Pedro blew himself up and almost killed Persopero. The Straw Hats are still being pursued. Why wouldn't you check the coast? Pekoms has extreme loyalty to both Mama and the Minks and Pedro used to be a crewmate of his.
To the point of catching up: The Straw Hats used coup d' burst and Mama and her warships managed to catch up. Not to mention that three hours are still needed for baking the cake and Brulee is conscious and back in control of the Mirror World, why would catching up be an issue? If Brulee and Pekoms are allies either way.
Latest chapter does indeed give Pekoms three hours to do whatever, but why would he go there exactly if Perospero is saying Pedro already met his end? Not to mention that the current action is not there anyways, with Perospero also mentioning that he's pursuing the ship with Big Mom, indicating to the BM pirates they're currently on the sea, and should adapt accordingly.
As for catching up, only Mama has genuinely caught up due to her water homie. (EDIT: Forgot about the cannonballs, nvm lol) Not that that matters, since Pekoms presumably isn't on any of the ships anyhow. As for using Brulee who has just woken up, it's certainly an option, but I always thought that if Pekoms was in fact going to randomly retrieve Pedro's body, he wouldn't want to draw attention to himself. Otherwise, if I'm a BM pirate, I'd have to ask myself why he's looking for the body, or dragging it around or whatever.
Well if Pedro is not dead then it would not be an issue. Going back to ones body should pose no problem. The restriction seems to be focused on not giving a third party the soul/lifespans of others. Especially if you consider that Pudding was able to bring back memories from the homies, it could drive a person insane to have multiple people's memories.
Nothing to really add here, all we can do is see what happens when/if Big Mom is knocked out by the cake at this point. If her being unconscious does in fact return people's lifespans, even if they're dead, then I can't help but wonder what that would mean for people whose lifespans she had completely stolen a long time ago. Because uhh, it's not exactly the same as what Moria did, where you'd still be able to live without a shadow. I guess Oda could make it so that souls only return to recently deceased bodies in order to avoid any awkward implications, but eh, sounds like a stretch. Additionally, between stuff like Cracker and Brook's (Actually not entirely sure if Brook did that, or just paralyzed them) indirect methods of dealing with the Homies, you'd think it'd show the souls going of their bodies somewhere, presumably to their original owners. And yet nothing, they just seem to die, and that's that. Since you brought up Moria, he didn't need to be knocked out in order to defeat a zombie, as you could exploit their weakness to salt. Yet regarding Big Mom, knocking her out seems to be the possibility left in order to potentially return the lifespans she has stolen/removed.
Again, guess we'll see, it's kind of confusing tbh.
So why does not having your shadow makes you disappear from the world and if you are in mid process getting it back even with your head gone, you go back to normal because "shadow and user have to be equal".
Different devil fruit, different strengths and weaknesses. We simply don't know what happens if one were to receive their lifespan, but sure, Oda could make it so that it magically heals you. I'm just under the impression that at best it would… pretty much change nothing, maybe be a bit more energetic since they're effectively becoming younger I guess. But yea, imo it really doesn't make any sense for it to magically heal any grievous injuries that Pedros should've received.
You say that taking ones lifespans away makes you older. Which means your body metabolism is slower, Pedro was an old man. So giving him back his lifespans would help his body heal naturally. As you grow older your muscles deteriorates and so on, gaining his life back would make him effectively a young person again and being a strong mink would help in his healing process. Not to mention we have Chopper there and having Chopper saving Pedro would be a testament to his medical knowledge.
Well no, I didn't say that exactly, but sure, we can pretty much describe it like that I suppose. As Perospero said, Pedros has effectively been on this earth for 77 years, so I guess it's a good enough shorthand. Anyways, even if him getting his lifespan makes him more energetic or whatever, again, there is no reason to think it'll restore grievous injuries like missing body parts. Which of course, maybe you'll argue that he may not have lost any, that his body is just really banged up, but if Oda is going to go through the effort of showcasing the juxtaposition of Perospero losing an arm despite having candy armor equipped, then I feel that it is a pretty safe bet that Pedro's body is in an even worse condition. Best case scenario, he should have bled out anyways.
But if you weigh in what Pedro managed to do, to the current situation it was a pointless sacrifice. Because from now on, other factors have to come into play before the Straw Hats escape. So from someone that has had so many supposedly dead characters come back with sometimes minor scars, or not at all. Pedro's sacrifice seems to be done to build up something for his own character. Just think that this is a character that equated having a moment to shine to killing himself. He was already willing to die, and wanted to do it. If you give someone like Pedro a second chance, it open a plethora of alternatives for his character to grow. Because it literally would be a second life, and if he is to follow Luffy, crew or not, Luffy would influence him to try and survive to see the new dawn.
It wasn't pointless, they would've died right then and there if it wasn't for him. The latest chapter only showed that it did not buy them as much time as they would've liked. It makes sense why Perospero would describe it like that, because from his perspective, him and Big Mom already caught up to them. But for us readers, it's pretty clear that it was still necessary for him to do that, since the worst-case scenario is having a restrained ship, while Big Mom herself is attempting to board it. The main antagonists of this arc are understandably under the impression that they've finally got them cornered, while we obviously know that they're going to ultimately be fine. Regarding their current predicament, I feel that I only genuinely agree with it being completely undercut if it turns out that the Sun Pirates or some other outside force are "next in line" to sacrifice themselves in order to help them escape. If it's a scenario where say, Jinbe and/or Brook find a way to deal with that tidal wave, where Nami and co. continue to evade Big Mom by their own merits, at least for a bit longer, then frankly I won't have that much of an issue with it. Regardless of whether it was undercut though, it was factually not pointless, unless you have a better idea as to how they could have quickly taken out Perospero. Because Luffy's occupied with Katakuri, Jinbe was helping to set up the Coup de Burst, and Sanji has more important matters to attend to. Additionally, even though Sanji has an advantage against Perospero, I do not believe that he is capable of instantly dispatching him as if he is fodder, because as we've seen, Perospero is deceptively stronger than we initially thought. And of course, Brook and Chopper already got defeated by him, and anything Carrot could potentially do would take far too long. A surprise suicide attack was unfortunately the best action to take there.
As for all this potentially being a way to set up giving him a 2nd chance, I don't think so. He's made it very clear that he's content with helping them retrieve the Poneglyph and Sanji, escape, and not much else. Seems likelier at this point that his death is going to further characterize Carrot if anything (regardless of whether she joins or not), as well as of course being the cost of the Straw Hats dealing with their first antagonistic Yonko. I feel like if his sacrifice was all a part of this lengthy effort to revive and later motivate him to want to survive and want to see the "dawn", he'd be more… depressed? While he is essentially Death Flag: the character, he's basically a more extreme version of Jinbe. He doesn't carry himself as someone that doesn't see the point in living, it's just that he's very much comfortable with sacrificing himself if necessary. He even said as such when he fought Tamago. He wants to see the Straw Hats achieve their objectives, but at the same time, he states that he refuses to die, much less while fighting Tamago, until that has happened. Straw Hats ended up completing said objectives, meaning he kept his word about not dying before that had happened. Outside of Jinbe, he knows better than anyone the risks of setting foot on Big Mom's territory, so this makes sense. It looks like he would very much love to see what the Straw Hats do next, but if necessary, he'll put his life on the line, every single time, stating that being the "foundation" for them to one day do so would be his greatest satisfaction. Also, this whole sacrifice thing in and of itself is pretty much something Minks apparently have no qualms about doing for those they consider to be a friend anyhow. They, as well as Jinbe and Luffy, don't view it as a negative trait. So yea, whatever happens regarding his status, I don't see it as setting up some character arc for him, seems extremely unnecessary.
With all this being said, if Pedro does survive, and has no legs, then at least for me, he would make a much more interesting character than Carrot to join the crew.
To each their own, I think his role is pretty much done, regardless of what happens with him.
There is also that weird interaction between that scarecrow and Pedro, that could lead somewhere.
I also still feel that people are reading way too much into that, where is it supposed to lead exactly? Like I guess it shows where his lifespan will come from, assuming Big Mom being knocked out will return it? Also it seems weird that an alleged homie would speak in a way that suggests he isn't 100% sure as to whether he's speaking to Pedro. If you have Pedro's soul inside of you, I don't see why you wouldn't be more straightforward when speaking to your original body.
Well anyways, if something does indeed happen with this guy, it'd probably be less (not that that is saying much) nonsensical than someone randomly coming to retrieve Pedro, or Pedro tanking the bomb.
Latest chapter does indeed give Pekoms three hours to do whatever, but why would he go there exactly if Perospero is saying Pedro already met his end? Not to mention that the current action is not there anyways, with Perospero also mentioning that he's pursuing the ship with Big Mom, indicating to the BM pirates they're currently on the sea, and should adapt accordingly.
Because Pekoms is friends with Pedro, so he could go to check the aftermath of Pedro's sacrifice. And if he decided to go and help the chase, then going to that part of the coast would be the best spot to embark to follow them.
As for catching up, only Mama has genuinely caught up due to her water homie. Not that that matters, since Pekoms presumably isn't on any of the ships anyhow. As for using Brulee who has just woken up, it's certainly an option, but I always thought that if Pekoms was in fact going to randomly retrieve Pedro's body, he wouldn't want to draw attention to himself. Otherwise, if I'm a BM pirate, I'd have to ask myself why he's looking for the body, or dragging it around or whatever.
Not really, her warships are very close and behind her:
!
Even with the Sunny using burst, the Big Mom pirates still caught up. If Pekoms was questioned about it he would give the same answer that he did when he begged Big Mom to spare Pedro. By this point everyone knows he is a softy.
Nothing to really add here, all we can do is see what happens when/if Big Mom is knocked out by the cake at this point. If her being unconscious does in fact return people's lifespans, even if they're dead, then I can't help but wonder what that would mean for people whose lifespans she had completely stolen a long time ago. Because uhh, it's not exactly the same as what Moria did, where you'd still be able to live without a shadow. I guess Oda could make it so that souls only return to recently deceased bodies in order to avoid any awkward implications, but eh, sounds like a stretch. Additionally, between stuff like Cracker and Brook's (Actually not entirely sure if Brook did that, or just paralyzed them) indirect methods of dealing with the Homies, you'd think it'd show the souls going of their bodies somewhere, presumably to their original owners. And yet nothing, they just seem to die, and that's that. Since you brought up Moria, he didn't need to be knocked out in order to defeat a zombie, as you could exploit their weakness to salt. Yet regarding Big Mom, knocking her out seems to be the possibility left in order to potentially return the lifespans she has stolen/removed.
Again, guess we'll see, it's kind of confusing tbh.
As you said, different powers, different rules. I am not saying Big Mom's power will be a 1-to-1 copy to Moriah's but it is not outside the realm of possibilities. I would not go so far and say even dead people would get back their lifespans. Although seeing someone regressing their death would be cool, I wouldn't go as far. Hence why Pedro would still need to be alive for this to matter. And you are right, Cracker and Brooke killed/exorcised the homies and we did not see lifespans going back. When seeing how Oda has handled deaths before, you kinda just have to ask: "How could he bring them back?"
Different devil fruit, different strengths and weaknesses. We simply don't know what happens if one were to receive their lifespan, but sure, Oda could make it so that it magically heals you. I'm just under the impression that at best it would… pretty much change nothing, maybe be a bit more energetic since they're effectively becoming younger I guess. But yea, imo it really doesn't make any sense for it to magically heal any grievous injuries that Pedros should've received.
I am not saying it would heal his wounds, that's why I mentioned Chopper doing that. What gaining his lifespan back would do is give him vitality, that is, the energy to survive his severe injuries if he is treated fast enough.
Well no, I didn't say that exactly, but sure, we can pretty much describe it like that I suppose. As Perospero said, Pedros has effectively been on this earth for 77 years, so I guess it's a good enough shorthand. Anyways, even if him getting his lifespan makes him more energetic or whatever, again, there is no reason to think it'll restore grievous injuries like missing body parts. Which of course, maybe you'll argue that he may not have lost any, that his body is just really banged up, but if Oda is going to go through the effort of showcasing the juxtaposition of Perospero losing an arm despite having candy armor equipped, then I feel that it is a pretty safe bet that Pedro's body is in an even worse condition. Best case scenario, he should have bled out anyways.
That's why I said he was burning, the fire burnt his flesh and seared the wounds. And like I mentioned, I do think he could lose up to two to three limbs.
It wasn't pointless, they would've died right then and there if it wasn't for him. The latest chapter only showed that it did not buy them as much time as they would've liked. It makes sense why Perospero would describe it like that, because from his perspective, him and Big Mom already caught up to them. But for us readers, it's pretty clear that it was still necessary for him to do that, since the worst-case scenario is having a restrained ship, while Big Mom herself is attempting to board it. The main antagonists of this arc are understandably under the impression that they've finally got them cornered, while we obviously know that they're going to ultimately be fine.
Well, let's say Pedro did not blow himself up. Luffy was able to get into the mirror world, they could have abandoned the Sunny and searched for another way to escape. Of course it seems like that was the only option as Oda presented it like that, but if we go all the way back to the Baratie, Sanji thought the only way to save Zeff was by letting Pearl-dude kill him. Luffy responded by breaking apart the restaurant and telling Sanji that sacrificing himself is not a way to repay ones debt. This time around Luffy was focused on Katakuri, therefore he could not react to Pedro's moves, and everyone was taken by surprise by what he did.
As for all this potentially being a way to set up giving him a 2nd chance, I don't think so. He's made it very clear that he's content with helping them retrieve the Poneglyph and Sanji, escape, and not much else. Seems likelier at this point that his death is going to further characterize Carrot if anything (regardless of whether she joins or not), as well as of course being the cost of the Straw Hats dealing with their first antagonistic Yonko. I feel like if his sacrifice was all a part of this lengthy effort to revive and later motivate him to want to survive and want to see the "dawn", he'd be more… depressed? While he is essentially Death Flag: the character, he's basically a more extreme version of Jinbe. He doesn't carry himself as someone that doesn't see the point in living, it's just that he's very much comfortable with sacrificing himself if necessary. He even said as such when he fought Tamago. He wants to see the Straw Hats achieve their objectives, but at the same time, he states that he refuses to die, much less while fighting Tamago, until that has happened. Straw Hats ended up completing said objectives, meaning he kept his word about not dying before that had happened. Outside of Jinbe, he knows better than anyone the risks of setting foot on Big Mom's territory, so this makes sense. It looks like he would very much love to see what the Straw Hats do next, but if necessary, he'll put his life on the line, every single time, stating that being the "foundation" for them to one day do so would be his greatest satisfaction.
I would argue that he is depressed. Pedro thinks he has no purpose in this world because he completed these objectives, but Luffy would disagree completely with him. I mean Sanji tried to do the same, Robin too. They all feel they have accomplished what they wanted, and that is because they are at a dark place. To which Luffy usually breaks through the walls each of these character have raised and asks them: "forget about everything, what is it that you really want to do?" If you pose this question to Pedro and he says: "nothing, just die I accomplished my goals" how could he not be depressed/fed up/tired of living. If Pedro would be told: "if you could live what would you want?" that would be to keep helping the SH. So no, his greatest satisfaction would be to keep helping the SH to arrive at the new dawn, not just setting the foundation. Of course, if he were to really die, then he would die without regrets, as he accomplished a goal he previously failed and gave the SH some room so they can keep fighting.
Also, this whole sacrifice thing in and of itself is pretty much something Minks apparently have no qualms about doing for those they consider to be a friend anyhow. They, as well as Jinbe and Luffy, don't view it as a negative trait. So yea, whatever happens regarding his status, I don't see it as setting up some character arc for him, seems extremely unnecessary.
Luffy does view it in part as a negative trait. Of course Luffy likes the loyalty aspect that would make the Minks and Jimbe die for their friends and family, but at the same time when Jimbe told Big Mom he would choose Life, Luffy quickly told him: "you can't die if you are coming to my ship" So Luffy as much as he respects the determination of said sacrifice is not that he encourages it as seen with Sanji, Robin, Jimbe, etc. It also goes directly against Luffy's mentality of protecting everyone. And now that the Minks are his friends, he will fight twice as hard for them NOT to have to die, especially not for him. With Pedro he was unable to react, but also realized that he had to fight harder because there is no way of telling how many sacrifices they would need to escape successfully.
I also still feel that people are reading way too much into that, where is it supposed to lead exactly? Like I guess it shows where his lifespan will come from, assuming Big Mom being knocked out will return it? Also it seems weird that an alleged homie would speak in a way that suggests he isn't 100% sure as to whether he's speaking to Pedro. If you have Pedro's soul inside of you, I don't see why you wouldn't be more straightforward when speaking to your original body.
Because homies do not have the memories of their owners. As seen when Pudding gave the Seducing Woods their memories back for the Straw Hats to reach their ship. The scene with Pedro and scarecrow dude is weird because their interaction seems unnecessary. It is an odd thing when an enemy says: "Are you Pedro?" and the person in question has a reaction and then quickly jumps to fight even though they need to escape. Also, instead of it being where the lifespans comes from, it could be where Pedro's memories end up. Pudding is able to give the homies momentary their owners memories, her power is strong enough that if she had Pedro's original body and the homie she could give Pedro a second life by transferring Pedro's memories into the homie. Which would effectively give Pedro 50 years to live. In other words making the restoration of memories a permanent effect.
@K.:
snip
Had a large post that accidentally got deleted, so now I'm feeling quite dejected lol
So I'll just save time and address a few things:
Regarding your alternate plan, it'd be nonsensical for them to abandon the Sunny once more, because the BM Pirates would assuredly restrain/damage it if the Straw Hats got away again. Hell, if Perospero uses his powers on it again, they'd ultimately be put in the same position once they're finally ready to leave WCI. And speaking of Perospero, we brought up the ship being restrained, but more importantly, Brook and Chopper's lives were also at risk. If they didn't take out Perospero ASAP, they would've died. (Or at least Chopper would, Brook may just be permanently immobilized.) And then Katakuri with his foresight would also never allow each and every one of them to go through the mirror either. Considering their respective abilities, as well as how deceptively strong Perospero is, a surprise suicide attack was the best course of action to take there.
Regarding the "Pedro is depressed" argument, I completely disagree, especially when you have past examples like Sanji and Robin who have made it much more obvious. The difference between them and Pedro is that they weren't being true to themselves, so as a result, Luffy had to push that truth out of them. With Pedro, this is unnecessary. He's been unambiguous and honest from Day 1 regarding his intentions, I really don't see how you could read his character as being depressed. While yes, Luffy is the type of person that may object to him saying stuff like him knowing his journey would end here, and prefers that no one dies on his watch, he still acknowledges that Pedro isn't doing anything he doesn't want to do. Jinbe put it best when he said that this was Pedro's victory. Under the circumstances, Luffy quickly adapted to the situation, and has held his composure, so that he doesn't waste Pedro's sacrifice.
As for the memories thing, Pudding did not give them new memories, they were already there. I think what you maybe meant to say is that the memories of the original owners are repressed, and if that's the case, I'm inclined to agree with you. Either that or their original memories are something that eventually fades away as they get accustomed to their new existence as a Homie, which makes sense as well if they've been a Homie for a very long time.
Regarding your alternate plan, it'd be nonsensical for them to abandon the Sunny once more, because the BM Pirates would assuredly restrain/damage it if the Straw Hats got away again. Hell, if Perospero uses his powers on it again, they'd ultimately be put in the same position once they're finally ready to leave WCI.
The idea of abandoning the Sunny is to just leave the ship as a casualty. They wouldn't come back again for it, it would be the loss they had for defying an emperor.
And speaking of Perospero, we brought up the ship being restrained, but more importantly, Brook and Chopper's lives were also at risk. If they didn't take out Perospero ASAP, they would've died. (Or at least Chopper would, Brook may just be permanently immobilized.)
We have seen that fire melts the candy. Luffy would only need to use Red Hawk on both Brooke and Chopper to free them. Luffy used Elephant Gun on Chopper when Franky lost control of his body. It will hurt, but they would be alive.
And then Katakuri with his foresight would also never allow each and every one of them to go through the mirror either. Considering their respective abilities, as well as how deceptively strong Perospero is, a surprise suicide attack was the best course of action to take there.
Luffy managed to subdue Katakuri and grab a hold of Brulee while giving orders to everyone. Katakuri had everyone of the Big Mom pirates but himself and Persopero evacuate the ship. The sacrifice would still be there, but it would be the Sunny instead of Pedro.
Regarding the "Pedro is depressed" argument, I completely disagree, especially when you have past examples like Sanji and Robin who have made it much more obvious.
Just because other character make it obvious does not mean that other characters can have the same feeling and hide it better.
The difference between them and Pedro is that they weren't being true to themselves, so as a result, Luffy had to push that truth out of them. With Pedro, this is unnecessary. He's been unambiguous and honest from Day 1 regarding his intentions, I really don't see how you could read his character as being depressed.
Because it is not a happy attitude to be: "I can die now, I have done what I wanted" It shows that he feels that as long as he does his current goals he can go die. However, by being alive new goals and new objectives can be made. One can find new meanings to their lives. Pedro has been honest about not caring if he puts his life down the line. That is true, but he feels that he just needs to do this one thing and his life can be forfeited. Basically he does not see value in being alive afterwards.
To me it is like seeing someone going to school for a degree, and them saying well as long as I finish school I can die! When obviously setting the foundation is but the first step to what comes afterwards. Pedro forfeiting that opportunity is why I say he is depressed.
While yes, Luffy is the type of person that may object to him saying stuff like him knowing his journey would end here, and prefers that no one dies on his watch, he still acknowledges that Pedro isn't doing anything he doesn't want to do. Jinbe put it best when he said that this was Pedro's victory. Under the circumstances, Luffy quickly adapted to the situation, and has held his composure, so that he doesn't waste Pedro's sacrifice.
Just because Pedro wants to be suicide bomber does not make it right. It is a victory for Pedro because of the damage and opportunity that it gave the Straw Hats, but he also acknowledges that the crew is still in Big Mom's territory and crying and regretting not being able to save Pedro is not the right time to do it. They are being hunted down, they need to swallow their tears and press forward. Luffy understood too late situation they were in, therefore Pedro had to sacrifice himself.
As for the memories thing, Pudding did not give them new memories, they were already there.
I didn't say she did. But she has done it before with Reiju. It would be a combination of the powers she has demonstrated. She can awake the repressed memories of Pedro-homie. She can also take the memories from Pedro-real and then cut and edit the homies one so the memories of Pedro-homie and Pedro-true are the same.
@K.:
The idea of abandoning the Sunny is to just leave the ship as a casualty. They wouldn't come back again for it, it would be the loss they had for defying an emperor.
Woah, hold your horses there. The Sunny has to carry the SHs across the world. That's Franky's dream. It can't be given up. Plus, the Adam Wood it's made of can't be replaced. Sunny's as much a part of the crew as anyone, so I recommend you just drop this line of thought right now.
Woah, hold your horses there. The Sunny has to carry the SHs across the world. That's Franky's dream. It can't be given up. Plus, the Adam Wood it's made of can't be replaced. Sunny's as much a part of the crew as anyone, so I recommend you just drop this line of thought right now.
That's why it would be a sacrifice, not that they wouldn't be able to get more Adam Wood. Not sure about your lasts sentence, what Blissed and I were talking about possibilities other than Pedro's sacrifice.
I am not saying that the Sunny is unimportant or that it has no relevance to the crew.
@K.:
The idea of abandoning the Sunny is to just leave the ship as a casualty. They wouldn't come back again for it, it would be the loss they had for defying an emperor.
Bruh, there is no way in hell they're just going to leave behind the Sunny, especially not without the entire crew being there at the very least.
We have seen that fire melts the candy. Luffy would only need to use Red Hawk on both Brooke and Chopper to free them. Luffy used Elephant Gun on Chopper when Franky lost control of his body. It will hurt, but they would be alive.
The candy had seeped into their bodies, and Luffy was busy with Katakuri anyways…
Luffy managed to subdue Katakuri and grab a hold of Brulee while giving orders to everyone. Katakuri had everyone of the Big Mom pirates but himself and Persopero evacuate the ship. The sacrifice would still be there, but it would be the Sunny instead of Pedro.
Again, there's no way they'd abandon the Sunny and leave Big Mom's territory without it, I agree with Shift in that this really doesn't come across as something worth entertaining.
Just because other character make it obvious does not mean that other characters can have the same feeling and hide it better.
Fair enough, but going off of how he's been portrayed so far, as well as how Oda usually writes his characters when they're feeling despondent, I still completely agree.
Because it is not a happy attitude to be: "I can die now, I have done what I wanted" It shows that he feels that as long as he does his current goals he can go die. However, by being alive new goals and new objectives can be made. One can find new meanings to their lives. Pedro has been honest about not caring if he puts his life down the line. That is true, but he feels that he just needs to do this one thing and his life can be forfeited. Basically he does not see value in being alive afterwards.
To me it is like seeing someone going to school for a degree, and them saying well as long as I finish school I can die! When obviously setting the foundation is but the first step to what comes afterwards. Pedro forfeiting that opportunity is why I say he is depressed.
Poor analogy tbh
Just because Pedro wants to be suicide bomber does not make it right. It is a victory for Pedro because of the damage and opportunity that it gave the Straw Hats, but he also acknowledges that the crew is still in Big Mom's territory and crying and regretting not being able to save Pedro is not the right time to do it. They are being hunted down, they need to swallow their tears and press forward. Luffy understood too late situation they were in, therefore Pedro had to sacrifice himself.
It's not about whether he's right or wrong, the simple fact is that Pedro has no qualms about dying for his cause. There is nothing to "fix" here regarding his mindset. Even if he were to come back and join in the fight at Wano, he has been firmly characterized as a person that would gladly sacrifice himself all over again. It's just who he is, has nothing to do with depression, especially not in a series like One Piece, where we've had plenty of characters ready to give up their lives.
You know who'd probably be a much better example of what you feel Pedro is? Law before Doflamingo was defeated.
I didn't say she did. But she has done it before with Reiju. It would be a combination of the powers she has demonstrated. She can awake the repressed memories of Pedro-homie. She can also take the memories from Pedro-real and then cut and edit the homies one so the memories of Pedro-homie and Pedro-true are the same.
Again, a big stretch, one that seemingly also seems to be implying that Pudding can remove the memories of someone who is dead? Because if he isn't dead, then I don't see the point of transferring his memories into a Homie lol
It's been almost ten years and I still don't like Sunny's design. I liked Merry better.
It looked like an actual boat, SUnny looks like a carnival ride.
It's been almost ten years and I still don't like Sunny's design. I liked Merry better.
It looked like an actual boat, SUnny looks like a carnival ride.
I like them both, though I'm guess at some point I became partial to Sunny due to stuff like the Coup de Burst. Never gets old for me lol
Bruh, there is no way in hell they're just going to leave behind the Sunny, especially not without the entire crew being there at the very least.
Again, there's no way they'd abandon the Sunny and leave Big Mom's territory without it, I agree with Shift in that this really doesn't come across as something worth entertaining.
Jajaja, so if they had the choice between letting Pedro sacrifice himself and abandoning ship…yeah...Obviously the ship is important to them but I am pretty sure they would choose Pedro.
The candy had seeped into their bodies, and Luffy was busy with Katakuri anyways…
Perospero said that his candy arm will melt with a cup of tea. It doesn't seem like they need that much heat to dissolve it either way.
Fair enough, but going off of how he's been portrayed so far, as well as how Oda usually writes his characters when they're feeling despondent, I still completely agree.
As you said Law also did not show "depression" but only thought he had one thing to do before he could die, now that he has accomplished and is still alive is where his life really starts.
Poor analogy tbh
Sure, would you prefer me talking about a soldier going to war thinking that the only thing he needs to do is kill as many enemy soldiers as he can, if he dies helping his comrades it is okay. I am not dismissing how honorable that determination can be, but I also do not agree that dismissing ones life just to accomplish their current goals is something devoid of selfishness. Dying for someone or something is a much easier route than living and keep fighting to make it past your ambitions.
What about the people that he is leaving behind that will have to shoulder the weight of his death. The life they could have with him after the war.
It's not about whether he's right or wrong, the simple fact is that Pedro has no qualms about dying for his cause. There is nothing to "fix" here regarding his mindset.
Him having no qualms about his death is what needs to be fixed, it shows a lack of value towards his future. Pedro has been built properly, so with his past experiences there is no doubt that he will feel strongly about this. But that is because he thinks that is all he has left for to live.
Even if he were to come back and join in the fight at Wano, he has been firmly characterized as a person that would gladly sacrifice himself all over again.
So if you had a friend that was always ready to commit suicide that be all good, because that is what he wants? I am not sure how that is a healthy perspective in life.
It's just who he is, has nothing to do with depression, especially not in a series like One Piece, where we've had plenty of characters ready to give up their lives.
You know who'd probably be a much better example of what you feel Pedro is? Law before Doflamingo was defeated.
Yes, Pedro and Law are basically in the same position. Characters in One Piece are ready to bet their lives in what they believe. That is admirable, but at the same time, it is not like they will only give their lives away. They will exhaust every resource they have and only when that is not enough, when there is nothing else to do will they put themselves in that position. I think Pedro was looking solely to go out with a bang (heh), he was looking for a moment to shine. He wasn't thinking about going further, as he entered WCI he decided that it would be his resting place.
Again, a big stretch, one that seemingly also seems to be implying that Pudding can remove the memories of someone who is dead? Because if he isn't dead, then I don't see the point of transferring his memories into a Homie lol
@K.:
That's why it would be a sacrifice, not that they wouldn't be able to get more Adam Wood. Not sure about your lasts sentence, what Blissed and I were talking about possibilities other than Pedro's sacrifice.
I am not saying that the Sunny is unimportant or that it has no relevance to the crew.
@K.:
Jajaja, so if they had the choice between letting Pedro sacrifice himself and abandoning ship…yeah...Obviously the ship is important to them but I am pretty sure they would choose Pedro.
I'm saying you're basing your current argument on a faulty premise. If they lose the ship, they lose period because they will not be able to escape without it. Saying a person's life is more important is missing the point: all of their lives depend on having the ship.
That's all in addition to the fact that the ship is as important to the crew as Franky himself. It will never be destroyed so long as Franky's dream is unfulfilled. Saying it could is as asinine as saying Franky himself, not to mention any other crew member, could be killed any time before Raftel.
Even though I don't want to entertain the idea, a hypothetical sacrifice of the Thousand Sunny is NOT going to happen without Franky present.
I'm saying you're basing your current argument on a faulty premise. If they lose the ship, they lose period because they will not be able to escape without it. Saying a person's life is more important is missing the point: all of their lives depend on having the ship.
They could steal another ship.
That's all in addition to the fact that the ship is as important to the crew as Franky himself. It will never be destroyed so long as Franky's dream is unfulfilled. Saying it could is as asinine as saying Franky himself, not to mention any other crew member, could be killed any time before Raftel.
I find that reasoning to be a bit on the reader side. We know it won't be destroyed because Oda will not go through the process of building another ship design, and we already had the story of the ship being part of the crew in Water 7. It is in the same line of complaint on some readers asking why they didn't destroy the ship to ensure they couldn't escape. Everyone, including myself, agrees on the benefits of keeping the ship if the SH are killed. But now Katakuri has ordered to burn the ship down either way.
Also the point I was making was not: Just abandon the Sunny they can just get a new one. That only came after questioning the consequences of such decisions. Blissed asked what other options could they have but Pedro's sacrifice, in my opinion there were options each with their own challenges to overcome. Abandon the ship? Steal a new ship, still be on the run. Luffy grabbed Brulee and was able to go into the mirror world AND subdue Katakuri. He did this while rousing his crew to keep pressing forward. Tell them to go into the Mirror World and leave Katakuri outside or bring him in. The crew fights inside the mirror world.
The point would be, if Pedro's sacrifice would not have knocked Perospero out? What would the SH would have done, fight on the ship until their last breath? Or take the Shark Submerge and have Jimbe carry some of the other crew members? When Jimbe showed up to appease Big Mom's first tantrum he was riding on a shark/whale/fish. The same way they escaped in Impel Down.
@Count:
stuff
i was going to respond to every point and break it down into detail, however you're so adamant about carrot not joining that it'll probably be pointless. "its easier to see the path after you've already gotten to the destination." i dont feel you're being objective to the points so i'll just agree to disagree.
with that said, i have 1 final question for you to ponder, whats the purpose of carrot tagging along for whats going to be close to 200 chapters and not further the plot along? even johnny and yasaku for their very short stint, furthered the plot in some way.
with that said, i have 1 final question for you to ponder, whats the purpose of carrot tagging along for whats going to be close to 200 chapters and not further the plot along? even johnny and yasaku for their very short stint, furthered the plot in some way.
Provide another friendly character for the cast to play off of. Same as Bart and Cavendish and Sai last arc, or Kinemon and Momo for Punk Hazard, Dresserossa and upcoming Wano, or Law and Smoker and Tashigi on Punk Hazard, or Hachi Caimie and Pappug on FI and Sabody, or Paulie and the Franky Family at Water 7, or Conis and Wiper and Gan Fall on Skypeia
Pedro provided them an excuse for how they get into the place, and Carrot keeps him from being the only Zou representative on the trip.
i was going to respond to every point and break it down into detail, however you're so adamant about carrot not joining that it'll probably be pointless. "its easier to see the path after you've already gotten to the destination." i dont feel you're being objective to the points so i'll just agree to disagree.
with that said, i have 1 final question for you to ponder, whats the purpose of carrot tagging along for whats going to be close to 200 chapters and not further the plot along? even johnny and yasaku for their very short stint, furthered the plot in some way.
If we can only see that a future crewmate has potential to join in hindsight twenty years into this series, then thread discussions like this are pointless for both sides.
I ask myself the very same question when trying to consider Oda's mindset. But I trust that the potential options for her purpose in his mind are not restricted to solely being a future crewmate. Maybe she joins the Grand Fleet and does something else significant. Or Oda only wanted her on board this long for minor comedic relief and to make Pedro's sacrifice feel more impactful.
I don't see any chance of Carrot getting on. If people are saying "Well she's starting to become relevant" due to recent events, I would say "I'd need to see more." before even concluding that. If that's what people are thinking, then you have to at least see that she won't join anytime soon. She needs more revealed and especially a dream. Hey, it's even possible that Luffy may ask her and she refuses for some random reason, since she did help them.
Provide another friendly character for the cast to play off of. Same as Bart and Cavendish and Sai last arc, or Kinemon and Momo for Punk Hazard, Dresserossa and upcoming Wano, or Law and Smoker and Tashigi on Punk Hazard, or Hachi on FI and Sabody, or Paulie and the Franky Family at Water 7, or Conis and Wiper and Gan Fall on Skypeia
Pedro provided them an excuse for how they get into the place, and Carrot keeps him from being the only Zou representative on the trip.
My eternal thoughts regarding this is why the hell Oda couldn't simply be normal about it. He could've just:
Also, Carrot could've just… stayed behind. You say Carrot keeps him from being the only Zou representative, but I don't exactly see why that exactly matters for this particular arc? It is centered firmly on Sanji and his family, as well as learning more about Big Mom. Not to mention we just met this race, so it's not as if we're overly attached to them, or need a random Mink's insight regarding Big Mom's territory. We already have Pedro and Pekoms, whose expertise comes from the fact that they've actually been to WCI, rather than it having anything to do with them being from Zou. And of course, Wano is already the prime candidate to delve deeper into the mystery of the Mink race, so that would be where one would definitely see the need for multiple "Zou representatives". WCI on the other hand? Not so much. Not to mention you believe that Pedro is alive, so by that logic, it's not like he's going anywhere. But yea, I'm not seeing what would've been wrong with having just one representative... and Pekoms.
Furthermore, the only real Zou related subplot is the little bits and pieces we get concerning Pedro's backstory. So if he was the only Zou native that is allied with Luffy, by the time he dies, his final words could've been telling the Straw Hats (and the readers by extension) his thoughts regarding the "dawn", and then naturally, we'd presumably learn more about that in Wano. Additionally, apparently not everyone feels that Carrot's reaction(s) to Pedro's death stands out enough compared to Nami and co., or that it did much in terms of making his death more impactful, so I guess they wouldn't mind her absence for the aftermath of that as well. After all, the Straw Hats bond with people rather quickly, which wouldn't have changed if Carrot wasn't there. Alternatively, if they really needed that +1 to bounce off of , Oda could've just given them a WCI companion instead, or simply give more focus to Pekoms.
But of course, we got her. A random, unnecessary stowaway (that allowed her to get an extremely brief spotlight) that from Day 1 invited perpetual speculation, for better or worse. Due to the roundabout way it happened, I don't really see the point in being inflexible to the point where the only answer is that she's there to be cute and comedic (traits that are currently in hiatus), and then she'll proceed to completely fade away once we get to Wano. Like even if I didn't want her to join, I'd still leave open other possibilities here. And regarding the characters you've equated Carrot to, the majority of them can at least say they have future relevance that extends past them being another character for the Straw Hats to play off of. (Fleet, Alliance, Marine PoV) Yet it seems that you're implying/saying that not only will Carrot not join, but that it is unlikely that she will even get that far. Assuming I'm reading this right, not entirely sure. If you aren't saying that, then... I guess I kind of wrote all of this for nothing, because currently I'm actually not arguing that she's joining (We're at an impasse here, so not much else to say until more chapters come out), but that at the very least, she has future relevance ahead of her regardless of what happens, that her role is not going to be solely comedic relief or what have you.
She certainly does not have to join the crew, and I agree that she needs a lot more development (Ignoring those such as yourself that will never accept her due to her design alone, I'm aware your minds cannot be changed) if Oda actually does want her to join. But setting her chances aside, it seems pretty weird for Oda to completely sideline her after this arc is over, that she's just here to be cute. Before Luffy took off for WCI, I highly doubt that many readers were thinking that the team could benefit from someone with Carrot's personality, a personality that we didn't even know was all that bubbly and comedic until she got a more appropriate introduction.
@Neo:
I don't see any chance of Carrot getting on. If people are saying "Well she's starting to become relevant" due to recent events, I would say "I'd need to see more." before even concluding that. If that's what people are thinking, then you have to at least see that she won't join anytime soon. She needs more revealed and especially a dream. Hey, it's even possible that Luffy may ask her and she refuses for some random reason, since she did help them.
Speaking of Luffy, what do you guys think about when exactly Jinbe will be formally invited to the crew? Is it going to be after this arc ends, or is Luffy (or even Jinbe, Mr. Honorable) the type of person that wants to wait for everyone to get together before making it official? I suppose Luffy would probably just make it official after WCI, since there's already a precedent with him inviting Sanji despite not everyone being present. But sometimes I wonder if Oda would be that dastardly…
it seems pretty weird for Oda to completely sideline her after this arc is over, that she's just here to be cute
You do understand how manga and anime work? There's plenty of characters in plenty of stories there exactly for just that. Oda's not a stranger to doing things just for marketing or appealing to his audience
Speaking of Luffy, what do you guys think about when exactly Jinbe will be formally invited to the crew
He was formally invited on FI in front of the entire crew. And he accepted with the caveat that he had to do one other thing first.
You do understand how manga and anime work?
Yes.
He was formally invited on FI in front of the entire crew. And he accepted with the caveat that he had to do one other thing first.
Good point.
They have always someone native to talk with and immerse, or just to help. There is nothing much separating Carrot from Jonny and Josaku, or Pedro from Mr. 9 and Miss Monday.
Also, take into account that the Straw Hats haven't made friends with anybody native aside from Pudding (who is only now starting to reform), Jimbei (an old ally), Reiju, Pekoms (who was quickly off-paneled for most of the arc), and Bege/Caesar (who show up for the alliance over halfway in). Along with only half of the Straw Hat crew. So the supporting cast of allies this arc is very barren compared to what we usually get. Which is why Carrot may have tagged along.
Provide another friendly character for the cast to play off of. Same as Bart and Cavendish and Sai last arc, or Kinemon and Momo for Punk Hazard, Dresserossa and upcoming Wano, or Law and Smoker and Tashigi on Punk Hazard, or Hachi Caimie and Pappug on FI and Sabody, or Paulie and the Franky Family at Water 7, or Conis and Wiper and Gan Fall on Skypeia
Pedro provided them an excuse for how they get into the place, and Carrot keeps him from being the only Zou representative on the trip.
I think you've completely missed my point, Bart and cavendish furthered the plot and became a part of the fleet, kinemon and momo, tied plot to wano, poneglyphs etc. painter dude linked kinemon to dressrosa, ninja to zou, law to doflamingo, smoker with kids to have another connection to vegapunk, hachi to Raleigh, caime to initiate conflict with tenryubito etc, etc. everyone you've mentioned have driven the plot. Carrot really hasn't. We're seeing more relevance and I think she will drive the plot further by her joining. What I'm asking is if she doesn't join, how else is she driving the plot? She's been placed front and center as one of the main ppl, even overshadowing pekoms.
sidenote: you hopped in midway in the conversation so you didnt see my point but we are talking about people who boarded and rode on the strawhats ship.
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@Count:
If we can only see that a future crewmate has potential to join in hindsight twenty years into this series, then thread discussions like this are pointless for both sides.
I ask myself the very same question when trying to consider Oda's mindset. But I trust that the potential options for her purpose in his mind are not restricted to solely being a future crewmate. Maybe she joins the Grand Fleet and does something else significant. Or Oda only wanted her on board this long for minor comedic relief and to make Pedro's sacrifice feel more impactful.
I'm not of the sole belief, that it's join or nothing. I feel she will further the plot in someway and how I see her doing that is her joining the crew bc of the information provided. Other than that I can't think of much else, hence me asking.
I know for a fact that you can't believe he JUST brought her for comedic relief and if it's for the connection to Pedro and his sacrifice, then when we've had pekoms from the very start. There's gotta be more to her than just that. oda specifically didnt have any other mink tag along and it was made evident in chapter 821/822 when all the known minks we saw got turned down one after the next. out of everyone, the one you find uninteresting was the one that oda picked.
we have carrot in the story when pedro's backstory to big mom and how the minks went to join big mom and how pekoms begging for pedro's life, to now pedro's "death" and instead of the long standing connection we've had with pekoms form fishman island, instead we got a few panels with carrot. we'll also have her with the crew for a very long time chapter wise. i'm just not buying that as her only role to further the plot along.
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You do understand how manga and anime work? There's plenty of characters in plenty of stories there exactly for just that. Oda's not a stranger to doing things just for marketing or appealing to his audience
He was formally invited on FI in front of the entire crew. And he accepted with the caveat that he had to do one other thing first.
you can't use that as a caveat because jinbei told them that once he's done with his duties, he'll come back to his side (which has happened and is currently going on in the manga) and that if luffy still feels the same way to once again invite him to the crew, to which luffy strongly agreed.
Really been enjoying most of the discussion on here the past week. Obviously I'm rooting for Blissed and everyone else on the Carrot wagon, but I gotta hand it to the strong arguments on all sides.
Okay, I'm gonna go back a bit and address some previous arguments and criticisms.
because your entire argument hinges on
-the what-if of Oda killing a character permanently,
-starting to make a character interesting after two years
-ignoring Luffy (and Oda's) "It's an island full of Choppers."The first two are things Oda just doesn't do, (especially when Sanji would be partially responsible for said death) and the last is a bold faced pronouncement of "nope."
If you consider my arguments no better than fan fiction based on these points, I can at least point out where the manga itself begs to differ.
1. Ace and Whitebeard's deaths, whatever you may think of their greater purpose, proves that Oda CAN and HAS killed characters in real-time. Whether it will stick this time is debatable of course, but it's not impossible.
2. Off the bat, Oda has been stretching his stories out for years now, so the amount of time spent has to be chalked up to inflation at least somewhat. That said, Vivi started out as just a random villainess, Hachi was just the dumb guy on Arlong's crew, Lucci, Kakau and Kalifa were only as odd as all the other shipyard workers, and Rayleigh had a one panel cameo before getting his big debut almost 500 chapters later. Who knew Helmeppo would turn out to be relatively decent? Or that Kokoro would be a mermaid? Or that Mr. 3 would get as much development, much less a bromance with Bon Clay, as he did? They were all characters that were meant to surprise us with the depth they developed. That doesn't spell out Carrot joining in itself, but she is definitely due some development before this is over.
3. Here are some other choice quotes from Luffy:
"Wow, Coby! You really are worthless!"
"Come back here, legs! You have to join my crew!"
(Knocking Ms. Wednesday and Mr. 9 out) "They had it coming!"
None of these off-hand remarks were supposed to be scenes and quotes we go back to over and over to inform our opinions on these characters. They were supplanted by actual development later on: Coby is definitely no worthless, Vivi is better than a whale poacher, Kinemon is…I got nothin'.
Nope, I'm arguing against her because the first thing Oda did was say "it's an island full of Choppers" and she has nearly the same face, and all the minks are going to be involved in the next arc, and because she has consistently been second banana. If it had been Wanda or Nekomamushi or something, who have equally little presence but a more unique design, mahybe. But so far she really hasn't done anything that Jonny and Yosaku or Paulie or Wiper or Bart haven't done. We've had lots of prominent arc companions before.
The quote you keep using has no bearing on anything currently happening in the story. "Pedro, no! I'd be sadder if you weren't from an island of people exactly like Chopper!" "Carrot!!! Even though you don't have any unique skills, help the others take care of things on the ship!" No, that's not a thing.
Do exactly the things that Chopper already does. We've gone over that already.
Yes, it IS an "only" jump high when Chopper has an entire form for that, and an "only" use electricity when we just a few chapters ago saw Nami do a huge thunderbolt from the sky able to wipe out a small army, and likely getting a cloud upgrade at the end of the arc.
Something you and I both forgot is that Chopper technically doesn't have Jump Point anymore. Besides the main three, there's Guard, Kung Fu, Horn and Monster. Oda took Jump out of the equation. Only Luffy and Sanji can now match Carrot in vertical mobility. Doesn't exactly make her case stronger, but Chopper no longer has the ability to match hers. Make of that what you will.
"Rabbit" and "Girl" aren't join worthy traits by themselves when we already have "Multi-form Reindeer". If we DIDN'T have Chopper, absolutely, someone from Zou would damn near be a lock and her being the only remaining prominent character from Zou I'd say she was an absolute shoo in to join.
But we DO have Chopper.
Oda obviously likes animals, maybe he just wants another one on the crew.
And Rebecca was set up to fight Diamante. That didn't happen, Kyros handled that fight for her. Ussopp was set up to fight Trebol, that didn't happen. (He ended up in a battle with Sugar instead.) Nami was set up to fight Monet, then Zoro and Tashigi took over. Etc.
I'm sure she'll get a moment against the guy, same way Viola got a moment against Doflamingo or Paulie got against various Enies Lobby enemies …But just have someone they have a grudge against, or even getting to fight them, doesn't propel them to higher status. There's tons of characters with grudges that don't get to win themselves and tons of side characters that get fights. Carrot and Pedro had zero chemisty and backstory prior to this chapter. Nothing to indicate they had a bond or that their stories were tied together, not until we needed some tears jerked. And thats just not something Oda would sit on for two years if if was going to be a major revelatory character moment. ESPECIALLY when Pekoms is still supposed to figure into all of this as well.
Now this is something I haven't considered, it's great you brought it up. It's definitely possible that someone else will take down Peros in Carrot and Pedro's stead. My basis for thinking she has a shot of doing it herself is that it's been brought up multiple times that she can fight, has been trained for combat and not just self-defense. For all her strengths, Rebecca was made clear to be someone who's not meant to go on the straight offensive. It would have gotten no complaints from me if she had, I'm just saying it's understandable.
@Count:
I mean no disrespect, but we can do a lot better than the "what you're saying is just an opinion and not a fact" argument.
I certainly take no disrespect as long as you mean "we" to be "all of us". We all value our own opinions, and it's fair to be skeptical of those of others. People are going to think my opinions are crazy, that I'm looking at all the wrong things with this theory, and I'm fine with that. But likewise, I don't think I'm out of line when I point out that someone else might be missing something. I'm not trying to belittle anyone here, especially when I'm the one with the more out-there idea. I'm also not against drafting up some sort of peace treaty, but unless that's what you're proposing, I'm not pulling my punches and I'm not expecting anyone else to.
How has a character like Carrot led to bringing up peace treaties. I love the civil war she's caused.
Really been enjoying most of the discussion on here the past week. Obviously I'm rooting for Blissed and everyone else on the Carrot wagon, but I gotta hand it to the strong arguments on all sides.
Okay, I'm gonna go back a bit and address some previous arguments and criticisms.
If you consider my arguments no better than fan fiction based on these points, I can at least point out where the manga itself begs to differ.
Alright, that's all fine.
1. Ace and Whitebeard's deaths, whatever you may think of their greater purpose, proves that Oda CAN and HAS killed characters in real-time. Whether it will stick this time is debatable of course, but it's not impossible.
Characters that needed to not only seem to die, but stay dead for the sake of timeskip developments of Straw Hat training and Blackbeard's rise in power. Oda also got to have his cake and eat it too by introducing Gura Gura Admiral Blackbeard and Sabo as pseudo-replacements for their roles/powers, so it's almost like Oda pulled death fakeouts for those two as well. So those two characters aren't even truly dead either.
2. Off the bat, Oda has been stretching his stories out for years now, so the amount of time spent has to be chalked up to inflation at least somewhat. That said, Vivi started out as just a random villainess, Hachi was just the dumb guy on Arlong's crew, Lucci, Kakau and Kalifa were only as odd as all the other shipyard workers, and Rayleigh had a one panel cameo before getting his big debut almost 500 chapters later. Who knew Helmeppo would turn out to be relatively decent? Or that Kokoro would be a mermaid? Or that Mr. 3 would get as much development, much less a bromance with Bon Clay, as he did? They were all characters that were meant to surprise us with the depth they developed. That doesn't spell out Carrot joining in itself, but she is definitely due some development before this is over.
Vivi did stand out as a random mook. But when Oda's plans changed, he made sure to make Vivi start to become a major standout character in Whiskey Peak by revealing her royalty and plan to stop Crocodile. And she at least conveniently had design quirks that stood out like light blue hair (years before Franky) and Peacock Slashers for weapons. Hachi had a cover story and started to stand out in Sabaody Archipelago plot-wise, although his swordsmanship prowess evaporated. Oda put as much effort into foreshadowing CP9 as twist villains as much as Kuro. Which was basically nothing, it happened for the sake of happening. And their reveals occurred early enough in the scope of the saga's plot events to not feel too dissonant. I think Pudding is the first time that Oda actually put effort into making a clever twist villain. Rayleigh had his panel in a flashback. Helmeppo got abused by his father and stood out as a secondary antagonist before showing up in Coby's cover story. Kokoro being a mermaid was fairly random, but Tom was a Fishman and Arlong Park foreshadowed Fishman Island. Mr. 3 stood out in a role as big as being an arc villain and was part of a saga-spanning antagonist faction, and showed up in the eventual cover story to foreshadow his role in Impel Down.
Also, none of these characters bar Vivi (whose story plans changed last minute so you can only use her as evidence to support Oda somehow changing his mind about Carrot being an irrelevant side character) stayed around for more than one arc in present consecutive time for them to stand out plot-wise. They either got developed in those initial arcs they debuted in or had years of space for Oda to develop or change his mind about how significant their roles would be in One Piece's story. The only care you might have is Kokoro, but her role stayed minor and was meant to connect to Fishman Island being a future arc.
3. Here are some other choice quotes from Luffy:
"Wow, Coby! You really are worthless!"
This highlighted Luffy's accurate thoughts on Coby being a coward. The whole point of Coby's character arc in Chapter 2. As soon as as he stood up to Alvida, Luffy changed his mind.
"Come back here, legs! You have to join my crew!"
Part of the recurring gag of Luffy wanting to recruit weird people/creatures, but it also added to building up intrigue around a future major supporting character somewhat similar to Vivi.
(Knocking Ms. Wednesday and Mr. 9 out) "They had it coming!"
They were annoying weak background threats getting overshadowed by Luffy and Zoro's fight.
None of these off-hand remarks were supposed to be scenes and quotes we go back to over and over to inform our opinions on these characters. They were supplanted by actual development later on: Coby is definitely no worthless, Vivi is better than a whale poacher, Kinemon is…I got nothin'.
But you admit that they were supposed play a role in making the audience think a certain way about these characters. Whether they got subverted or not, they did play a purpose in shaping our perception of them. So what exactly do you think we take from a quote like "An island full of Choppers!" that has not gotten subverted from that impression? Anything else other than that it's maybe kind of true at least design-wise?
The quote you keep using has no bearing on anything currently happening in the story. "Pedro, no! I'd be sadder if you weren't from an island of people exactly like Chopper!" "Carrot!!! Even though you don't have any unique skills, help the others take care of things on the ship!" No, that's not a thing.
Robby isn't bringing this up because it has to do with the story. Obviously Luffy isn't going to refuse a crewmate because they look too much like a previous crewmate. He's bringing this up because it keys in on how Oda acknowledges the Minks are like Chopper. It's not a hint or secret message from Oda to his fans or anything conspiracy-esque, just a clue into how his mindset on the Minks in how much thought he puts into designing and characterizing them goes. As well as shaping how the audience is supposed to perceive the furry animal theme of the Minks like I mentioned earlier. And because of that, it is easy to discern that he didn't create any of them with as much standout creativity as Chopper/other crewmates since we know he makes every Straw Hat design unique enough to stand out in the grand scope of the series at the time they are introduced. Now, there is no absolute rule that Oda can't create a Mink that is as unique as Chopper. But then comes our claims about how Carrot's design and personality are nowhere near as unique as any of the Straw Hats as a retort too.
At least if Luffy went to Fishman Island and said "Wow, it's an island full of Arlongs/Hachis/Jimbeis/Caimies", that would stand out as something new that Oda might like to try out for a unique Straw Hat design because we don't anybody like that in the crew.
Something you and I both forgot is that Chopper technically doesn't have Jump Point anymore. Besides the main three, there's Guard, Kung Fu, Horn and Monster. Oda took Jump out of the equation. Only Luffy and Sanji can now match Carrot in vertical mobility. Doesn't exactly make her case stronger, but Chopper no longer has the ability to match hers. Make of that what you will.
A new crewmate having an ability that an old crewmate used to have pre-timeskip is actually kind of cool. Imagine that the eleventh/final crewmate uses Dials even though Usopp had those pre-timeskip. It's unique and clever enough to work. But the problem is, as you said, Gear Fourth Luffy and Sanji match (or are superior) to Carrot in vertical mobility. Carrot isn't only derivative of Chopper, but Luffy, Sanji, and even Zoro's flashback as well.
Oda obviously likes animals, maybe he just wants another one on the crew.
We just know he likes animals and puts them in color spreads and such. That doesn't really mean anything other than feeding into why Chopper and maybe by extension Jimbei are in the crew, and they are very VERY different from each other at the least.
Now this is something I haven't considered, it's great you brought it up. It's definitely possible that someone else will take down Peros in Carrot and Pedro's stead. My basis for thinking she has a shot of doing it herself is that it's been brought up multiple times that she can fight, has been trained for combat and not just self-defense. For all her strengths, Rebecca was made clear to be someone who's not meant to go on the straight offensive. It would have gotten no complaints from me if she had, I'm just saying it's understandable.
Her fighting ability hasn't exactly stood out as something significant or noteworthy. More that she just happens to be decent at fighting. The most impressive things she did was dodge a casual attack from Zoro and electrify Brulee's soup (which came from a teamup that also put Chopper in the spotlight), and neither of those instances are major things that make us go "wow, Carrot's a really strong character!" I'd even say Sanji brutalizing a Marine lieutenant like Fullbody at the Baratie made more of an impression at the time than either of those things. Or Robin manhandling Tashigi and Pell with little effort during Alabasta. Or Franky revealing that he's a freaking cyborg. Or Brook OHKO-ing a giant spider while creepily humming, as well as everybody's surprise to him being able to run on water. Or Jimbei saving everybody by summoning whale sharks at the end of Impel Down and Luffy yelling "THAT'S SO COOL!". This isn't mandatory for every Straw Hat, but I'm only saying that Carrot's combat feats aren't all that remarkable. Or anything that stands out from the Mink warriors as a whole. So she seems like a basic support character if a fight with Perospero happens.
And at least with Rebecca, her flashback with the Toy Soldier was explicitly emphasizing the message of needing to learn to protect yourself because others won't always be there to protect. At least before Oda completely subverted that in present time to allow Rebecca to be codependent on other people without needing to lift a finger because, I don't know, he wants his daughters to not worry about him not being there if they ever get in trouble. Rebecca not being a good fighter after all makes sense with what we saw from her pacifistic nature and relying on Observation Haki, but her training in the flashback and Toy Soldier's words stood out. And more than three random flashback panels of Carrot sucking at sword training (something we never knew she even tried beforehand) and getting claw gloves from Pedro out of nowhere.
I certainly take no disrespect as long as you mean "we" to be "all of us". We all value our own opinions, and it's fair to be skeptical of those of others. People are going to think my opinions are crazy, that I'm looking at all the wrong things with this theory, and I'm fine with that. But likewise, I don't think I'm out of line when I point out that someone else might be missing something. I'm not trying to belittle anyone here, especially when I'm the one with the more out-there idea. I'm also not against drafting up some sort of peace treaty, but unless that's what you're proposing, I'm not pulling my punches and I'm not expecting anyone else to.
Of course I mean all of us on all sides. It's just that statements like:
you're arguing against her because she's not special enough for you and doesn't have the attributes you think she should have.
Are basically saying "what you're saying is not accurate because that is just your opinion/theory and your opinion/theory is not fact because it is subjective/not confirmed." And I see that kind of argument perpetuated so much throughout the internet that I almost find it hazardous. We're all stating our opinions here. That is what every single debate in history is about. But the way we try to assert the validity of our opinions is trying to give the most solid evidence and/or consistent logic either in quantity or quality. Saying things like "that's just what YOU think" instead of actually poking precise holes in the other person's argument is not an actual criticism so much as it is a shallow shot at the person making that opinion without any real bearing.
! As long as we are trying to predict what is going to happen in a fictional work where the author is going to literally try misleading and surprising the audience with subtle yet consistent logical undertones (so long as they are a good storyteller that isn't making everything up as they go), at least some of what we say HAS to be personal interpretation. We can't merely rely on basic occam's razor logic of the simpler explanation being the more likely one. Relying on that when, say, reading a detective story would make you think the really obvious sketchy person did the crime instead of the butler that the author has been trying to cleverly not bring too much attention to yet had seemingly minor coincidental presences in all of the crime scenes. Or in more relatable terms, that would mean Vivi was going to join the Straw Hats instead of Robin, Paulie was more likely to join the Straw Hats than Franky even after the latter's introduction, that Ace wasn't going to die, Jimbei would join in Fishman Island, or that the Straw Hats would escape from Totland as soon as Luffy reunited with Sanji. All of those things had basic and simple evidence for happening like Carrot joining does. But plenty of people could tell those things would not happen due to paying attention to how certain details and plotlines could lead to surprising twists as well as analyzing and understanding Oda's mindset on how/why he writes both familiar and new kind of story arcs/characters. Lots of authors want to go for the more complex/surprising kinds of story developments because that is what is typically more entertaining and fun to create. So we need to use our overall knowledge of fiction/tropes and analyze how and why the author has written previous stories in the way that they do in order to see what appeals to their sense of "entertainment." Which is often based on making stories that stimulate our emotional senses of satisfaction and mental concepts the best.
! This is precisely why, in a boiled down sense, I and others are resistant to the idea of Carrot becoming a crewmate. We know that she fills in these checkboxes and stands out in the story in these small and weird ways. But they are mostly or all executed in such minor, rushed, almost effortless, and redundant ways compared to what we have already seen in other crewmates/supporting characters that we feel assured that Oda isn't going to introduce a main character that is as "simple" as this. We feel confident that he is going to pour in a lot more creativity and standout execution in these areas when we actually see the eleventh/final Straw Hat just like all of the previous Straw Hats. And just to elaborate, our arguments contain info that is much more than vague statements like "this is more surprising", "this is more unique", or "this is what Oda would prefer", we actually specify the hows and whys of those things so that they make sense in criticizing the other side. What, how, and why we feel about Carrot's traits and plot roles does matter because that is what entertainment is appealing to. A balance of reader satisfaction and consistent logic both in and out of the story. It's just all about trying to prove if what we feel is justified or sensical enough.
! I know that sounds silly and subjective in a selfish way, but let's say that the Straw Hats theoretically die in the next chapter of One Piece. That sounds ridiculous to you, and it is. We have all of these plotlines and patterns of success for Luffy and familiarity with shonen series to know that will happen. But we have never gotten 100% confirmation that it will occur from the story or Oda himself. We have plenty of evidence to disprove that, but all of our evidence essentially relies on what we "subjectively" find appealing and consistent storytelling-wise. Or in other words, our evidence relies on our opinions about the story and author. But even though they are opinions, we know they matter and can make sense. We know we can make our points concise, specific, and well-informed even if they do not have 100% confirmation. This is why "arguments" like "that's just your opinion" or "that's not completely confirmed" are unfounded arguments that we should all ditch in favor of more precise and accurate critical feedback. At least so long as we are willing to hear out and respect each other.
I'm not saying any of the stuff in those spoiler tags to convince you my side right or anything about Carrot. All of that is more about discussing how effective debating about predicting storytelling events in general works.
So basically, instead of either of us saying things like "that's only what YOU think", which really doesn't get any side to make progress in discerning the truth, let us stick with actual criticisms deriving from what we know about the writing, art, media, and author. I hope that makes sense. I am only saying all of this because I actually respect how much effort you have been putting into this debate. You have made good points. And I know you can do better than criticizing opinions by saying that they're just opinions. We can all do better on that. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm rambling about something obvious in a pointless manner, I just know we can do better than resort to petty retorts like that. I don't mean to sound pretentious because even I have argued like that years ago, and that was stupid and I wish I didn't do that. Funnily enough, I didn't even like debating like this years ago either lol.
I know you're not belittling anybody either. We're all trying to be polite and respectful here. It's cool, none of this is personal. :)
How has a character like Carrot led to bringing up peace treaties. I love the civil war she's caused.
Arlong Park Forums' Carrot Peace Accords.
I wonder what would have happened if they stood up to robin in whiskey peak. I'd guess she would take a hostage, and get a gum gum to the face for her troubles.
I think a big part of the reason we’re having a discussion about Carrot at all is due to Odas fundamentally different post-skip writing style. A style which has, for 150+ chapters, downsized the crew size and added in new supporting characters as temporary allies. One obvious reason for this is that the series is over 20 years long, and splitting the crew gives Oda a leg up on the next arc, but I think another reason is that Oda has been writing the main characters for over 20 years. Its hard to keep writing new scenarios for the same people, but with new characters you can give them whatever abilities, backstories and personalities you want, in order to serve the story.
And so, it is possible that Carrot was added in for no other reason than she was a flexible tool to add to the protagonist side. And thus, she ends up featured in a crewmate-ish manner. But shes positioned in the manner of a crewmember whos been established ages ago, and doesn’t have much to do this current arc.
Which is a terrible sign for a supposed prospective crewmember. Prospective crewmembers are almost always deeply tied to the central conflict; Franky has the Pluton blueprints, Brook is the person we most want to see get his shadow back, etc. And so, they lend themselves to powerful emotional moments or badass showcases very easily. Even someone like Jinbe (who's still comparatively underserved in the backstory/dream department and wasn't the emotional centerpiece of Impel Down/the war) managed to pull off a ton of highly memorable moments born out of his emotional engagement in the central conflict, many of them highlighted by two-page spreads.
Now, despite being Jinbes official joining moment and covering Fishman Island baggage, Totland has chiefly been about Sanji, his family issues, and the marriage plot. It has also been about the assorted hangups of the Big Mom pirates, and about Capone and Caesar being villainous knaves, and about stealing a poneglyph. And also a tiny bit about Pedros SBS-relegated backstory, and belief in the new age. Carrot, and her desire to see the world, tie in to only the last one of these things, and only very recently, and thus the story just isn’t designed for her to have any major, stand-out moments.
Of course, you can say that Nami and Robin weren’t emotional cornerstones of their respective introductions, but Robin was specifically designed as a rug-pull surprise, and both had established teases of future development (why does Nami hate pirates? What Is Robins agenda?) And crucially, they weren’t just introduced as secondary characters, they were some of the most spotlighted characters, and thus become memorable even before officially joining. Whereas Carrot is really, really far down the character spotlight totempole this arc, more than any other impending crewmember ever was.
You could also say that the whole Pedro thing is supposed to be a turnaround moment, from where secondary character Carrot will be upgraded to proper New Crewmember showcase-mode (an unprecedented event in this series)…
But is this really enough to integrate her more meaningfully in future events? The emotional hook of Wano is first and foremost going to be avenging Momonosukes family and deposing Kaidou. The minks have a historic alliance with samurais, sure, but the Cat/Dog kings are gonna be figureheads for that. Time is also going to be given to Kidd, Hawkins, Apoo and Law. And theres the hunt for Kaidos Poneglyph, which has no indication that it will be any more substantial than here. I guess you can say that Pedros belief in the Straw-Hat induced New Dawn connects to the bigger picture of getting to Raftel through Kaidou, but that’s secondary to the way more tangible and immediate stakes of the arc.
And that’s also ignoring that 1) We don’t know that Carrot absorbs Pedros dream 2) Pedros dream is vague and uninteresting 3) Pedro is very uninteresting 4) Theres no interesting bond between Carrot and Pedro to form the base of emotionally satisfying (main?) character development for Carrot.
That leaves her dream of seeing the seas, which, as dreams go, is wildly unremarkable.
I consider myself as one of the biggest Carrot fans in here. And even I don't believe that she'll join. It just feels like Wicca all over again. Swap some words in garonne's or Blissed's recent posts to Wicca and Dressrosa.
Fell in love with Carrot too,the moment she appeared. Just enjoy the time as long as she is here.
Meh, I stand by Carrot being above every Dressrosa candidate, regardless of what happens with her, based off the stowaway factor, no strict duties, and by virtue of WCI having far less "candidates". Didn't even know there was a serious push for Wicca anywhere, she barely showed up at all. At least Rebecca made some sense. But yea, people just latched on to all of them, huh…
I guess when you're utterly convinced she has no chance, she's no different from them to many of y'all I guess. Carrot before the whole stowaway thing, I would have completely agreed, that people just want that new character to latch onto. But that's not how it went, so here I am I guess, hoping.
It just feels like Wicca all over again. Swap some words in garonne's or Blissed's recent posts to Wicca and Dressrosa.
Also Perona, Caimie, Bonney, Shakky, Margureite, Hancock, Arlong's fortune telling sister, Shirahoshi, Monet, Tashigi, Rebecca…
It is literally the exact same argument every single time with almost no variation. And without exageration, for every single female character that shows up and gets any screen time.
"I like this character and think this trait about them is special and will ignore all the other characters that have equal focus" overrides any debate about narrative, design, and Oda. And it's always the girls that get the lengthiest arguments. "Hey look, Monet wears glasses and likes astrology! I'm going to impart deep meaning and dreams to this one panel!"
Random support also ends up going to the likes of Kinemon, Momo, Bart, Cavendish, Law, Ceaser, Pedro and they'll get a supporter ocassionally, but never to the same degree.
Out of everyone that's come up in the last several years Kinemon and Bart have had the strongest arguments... but those were immediately displaced once they got paired with someone else with equal billing. Once Kanjuro showed up Kinemon's visual gag became super clear, and Bart was out the moment he started getting consistent even billing with Cavendish. (And even before those things happened there were legit arguments against.) Pudding is about the only current viable candidate for reasons (mostly Oda showing her off years in advance) but her weird place in the story and her broken power make it incredibly hard to see her fitting long term.
There is a difference between "I like this character and want to see them stick around long term" and "I think there's a ton of story evidence for them joining, regardless of if I like them or not." Most of the strongest early theories for Jimbei didn't even like him all that much and were super dissapointed in his design!
Pudding is about the only current viable candidate for reasons (mostly Oda showing her off years in advance) but her weird place in the story and her broken power make it incredibly hard to see her fitting long term.
I never understood why she is due to the reasons you mentioned, her skill(s) overlapping with Robin and Sanji, and her showing no combat prowess whatsoever.
Damn, Carrot is still being argued for/against. It never ends lol
I never understood why she is due to the reasons you mentioned, her skill(s) overlapping with Robin and Sanji, and her showing no combat prowess whatsoever.
She's female, not like she'll need to do anything more than knock over a mook or two anyway.
She's female, not like she'll need to do anything more than knock over a mook or two anyway.
But she hasn't given me any reason to trust that she can do that much, unless she's taking that gun with her lol
Pretty good debate. As I've said previously, the last crew mate will join at the end of Wano. There's no way some brand new, unknown character will join the SHs after that arc as it will have been their biggest test in the entire series. Another reason why we'll get the last crew mate by then will be because the SHs will already have 3 of the 4 road poneglyphs and likely some idea on where to find the fourth one (Elbaf most likely). Having anyone else join after that arc would be like someone joining a sports team during the conference finals at that point.
Just looking at those two points, we have to assume that we've either already seen the last crew mate (Carrot) or will get someone specific to Wano (someone like Raizo). Carrot is the most obvious choice right now due to some pretty basic stuff (wants to see the world, potentially inherits Pedro's will, is a Mink (a race that should be represented when Luffy becomes PK), has a decent scouting ability, a solid artist, has a unique skill (electro, which Chopper can't learn since he's not a mink and something Nami does NOT have), will have been there when the SHs acquired all of the road poneglyphs etc.
I can understand why some people are going on and on about Oda's patterns, but there's no reason why he can't change things up much the same way he did with Robin. He also mentioned how new characters would join the SHs successively and if this is Jinbei's time, the last crew mate will join after the next arc. I and others may be wrong, but given what I've seen and all of the variables at play including where the SHs will be after Wano, I can't see any other characters unseating Carrot as the best potential last SH at this point. Pedro being alive will make me second guess myself, but for now, I'll stick with Carrot as my guess until I get more info.
But she hasn't given me any reason to trust that she can do that much, unless she's taking that gun with her lol
I mean, it's not nothing. She did take down Reiju, but the scene with Sanji didn't work well in her favor for obvious reasons. And she does have some support abilities with her memo memo fruit. It's not the best support for crewmate, but it's not nothing.
I never understood why she is due to the reasons you mentioned, her skill(s) overlapping with Robin and Sanji, and her showing no combat prowess whatsoever.
Because Oda first showed her off nearly 4 years in advance of the cake arc showing he thought about her waaaay in advance, the third eye is thus far a trait completely unique just to her, Luffy said he'd be cool with Sanji bringing his bride into the crew, and this is for all intents and purposes, an arc largely about her.
Basically the things that were relevent for her before we had even a single line of dialogue in the story are still relevent and speak to Oda's style the fact that she's important. For actual story weight she absolutely qualifies as worth the argument.
But how she's been handled since probably means she ain't joining. Her design aside from the third eye is too close to Nami's, and much like Hancock and Bart before her, I can't see her current in crazy gag lasting nonstop till the end of the series.
AUTHOR wise, she pretty much hits all the big checkmarks. Actual CHARACTER wise, not so much. But since she is doing a literal 180 on her previous personality she's tough to judge.
He also mentioned how new characters would join the SHs successively
Given when he gave that quote, he was presumably talking about the fleet.
Unless you're referring to the even older quote, in which case he was talking about the Impel Down crew.
wants to see the world,
So do most characters. That's not a join worthy dream.
potentially inherits Pedro's will,
Requires Pedro to be dead, which he isn't.
is a Mink (a race that should be represented when Luffy becomes PK),
Chopper already covers the general gist, and minks will be part of the army just like the fishmen and giants and dwarves.
has a decent scouting ability,
Not really. Robin can put her eyes and ears on anything, Brook can send out his spirit to scout, and Usopp has haki enhanced long distance vision. They have plenty of scouts. Carrot can… use binoculars.
a solid artist,
Usopp is already a solid artist.
has a unique skill (electro, which Chopper can't learn since he's not a mink and something Nami does NOT have),
Nami has balls of electricity and brought giant thunderbolts down from the sky like three chapters ago, not to mention going back to at least Enies Lobby. SHe absolutely has access to electric abilities.
And even that aside, where has it been stated that Chopper can't learn it? Is it a biological technique, or just something that anyone covered with fur can learn? Law has a random electric attack and he's not a mink.
She will have been there when the SHs acquired all of the road poneglyphs etc.
Will she? We still don't know where the fourth one is. And you can say nearly the same for Kinemon or Law, they'll have been there for the first and third at least.
For Carrot the only weird think that needs resolution is her need for adventure. She became to much of a recognizable face to just be a mink in the tribe and for her finale to just be there. And while I didn't see a satisfying way for it before(I doubt she would become a crew member) I think the flashback does help with that. I picture Pedro once again sailing a pirate for in order to help he strawhats accomplish their mission and Carrot will be part of it. This woud basically be the same ending as the one Margaret got. It doesn't do much for Pedro who would't accomplish much with this new crew but it is perfect or Carrot.
You forgot the worst of all possible candidates. Caribou.
You forgot the worst of all possible candidates. Caribou.
pretty sure a few people wanted absalom who is a wholesale rapist instead of just a guy who dabbles in all things creepy.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Because Oda first showed her off nearly 4 years in advance of the cake arc showing he thought about her waaaay in advance, the third eye is thus far a trait completely unique just to her, Luffy said he'd be cool with Sanji bringing his bride into the crew, and this is for all intents and purposes, an arc largely about her.
Basically the things that were relevent for her before we had even a single line of dialogue in the story are still relevent and speak to Oda's style the fact that she's important. For actual story weight she absolutely qualifies as worth the argument.
But how she's been handled since probably means she ain't joining. Her design aside from the third eye is too close to Nami's, and much like Hancock and Bart before her, I can't see her current in crazy gag lasting nonstop till the end of the series.
AUTHOR wise, she pretty much hits all the big checkmarks. Actual CHARACTER wise, not so much. But since she is doing a literal 180 on her previous personality she's tough to judge.
Given when he gave that quote, he was presumably talking about the fleet.
Unless you're referring to the even older quote, in which case he was talking about the Impel Down crew.
So do most characters. That's not a join worthy dream.
Requires Pedro to be dead, which he isn't.
Chopper already covers the general gist, and minks will be part of the army just like the fishmen and giants and dwarves.
Not really. Robin can put her eyes and ears on anything, Brook can send out his spirit to scout, and Usopp has haki enhanced long distance vision. They have plenty of scouts. Carrot can… use binoculars.
Usopp is already a solid artist.
Nami has balls of electricity and brought giant thunderbolts down from the sky like three chapters ago, not to mention going back to at least Enies Lobby. SHe absolutely has access to electric abilities.
And even that aside, where has it been stated that Chopper can't learn it? Is it a biological technique, or just something that anyone covered with fur can learn? Law has a random electric attack and he's not a mink.
Will she? We still don't know where the fourth one is. And you can say nearly the same for Kinemon or Law, they'll have been there for the first and third at least.
I mean usopp's drawing abilities have been put on the backburner for soooooooooooo long Idek if oda would consider this redundacy a negative. He drew the flag, partially because oda needed it to be done (it still fits of course since he's a tinkerer), but since that…
@Long:
I mean usopp's drawing abilities have been put on the backburner for soooooooooooo long Idek if oda would consider this redundacy a negative. He drew the flag, partially because oda needed it to be done (it still fits of course since he's a tinkerer), but since that…
We also haven't seen Nami draw a map in like 18 years but we can assume she still does it.
Usopp hasn't drawn anything as a story point anytime recently but he's done art stuff here and there mostly title pages and color pages and such. Oda hasn't forgotten he's an artist.
@Long:
I mean usopp's drawing abilities have been put on the backburner for soooooooooooo long Idek if oda would consider this redundacy a negative. He drew the flag, partially because oda needed it to be done (it still fits of course since he's a tinkerer), but since that…
Usopp did draw the "masks" for the four SHs with switched souls, and his own face for Kanjuuro to use as a reference against Sugar.