SQUARE ENIX - Single Player RPGs are dead?

[Ruin]

https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/27/agents-of-mayhems-dismal-august-sales-precede-reported-layoffs/

Here's an interesting article with some insight from an actual sales analyst on the current state of single-player games in the current market. Matt Piscatella is pretty well-researched and I'd recommend looking into other stuff by him.

basically, singleplayer hits need to be nearly perfect in terms of their execution and marketing to really make a success. I think this really shows with FF15, since a lot of people would probably say that without the sheer reputation the game had throughout its development and by virtue of being a final fantasy, it wouldn't have sold nearly much.

so I really think what they at SE are saying is less "Singleplayer games are dead" and more "single player RPGs require more extraordinary circumstances to become big successes, compared to multiplayer or service games" which is just what the video game market is these days. We'll still see singleplayer games have big hits, Nier Automata showed us as much, but they're becoming much fewer and far between than multiplayer or service based games

edit: i should note that I'm not linking the article in regards to Agents of Mayhem in any regard, rather for the insight into the market for single player games

[RoboBlue]

@Ruin:

https://venturebeat.com/2017/09/27/agents-of-mayhems-dismal-august-sales-precede-reported-layoffs/

Here's an interesting article with some insight from an actual sales analyst on the current state of single-player games in the current market. Matt Piscatella is pretty well-researched and I'd recommend looking into other stuff by him.

basically, singleplayer hits need to be nearly perfect in terms of their execution and marketing to really make a success. I think this really shows with FF15, since a lot of people would probably say that without the sheer reputation the game had throughout its development and by virtue of being a final fantasy, it wouldn't have sold nearly much.

so I really think what they at SE are saying is less "Singleplayer games are dead" and more "single player RPGs require more extraordinary circumstances to become big successes, compared to multiplayer or service games" which is just what the video game market is these days. We'll still see singleplayer games have big hits, Nier Automata showed us as much, but they're becoming much fewer and far between than multiplayer or service based games

What about Bravely Default?
Square Enix spent years before that believing traditional single player RPGs were dead, and their first non-Dragon Quest entry into the genre in a long time was a huge success.

[Ruin]

@RoboBlue:

What about Bravely Default?
Square Enix spent years before that believing traditional single player RPGs were dead, and their first non-Dragon Quest entry into the genre in a long time was a huge success.

I should make a correction, this is more about 60 dollar console releases than portable titles. Bravely Default was a big success due to being something the current market was lacking at the time in addition to just being pretty well-made. That said, Bravely Second didn't perform nearly as well and faced a much harder criticism from Japan due to a lack of improvements in the battle system and the quality of the script/dialogue, so I think Default may very well have been a "right time right place" sort of success, similar to Tales of Symphonia on the gamecube

[RoboBlue]

@Ruin:

I should make a correction, this is more about 60 dollar console releases than portable titles. Bravely Default was a big success due to being something the current market was lacking at the time in addition to just being pretty well-made. That said, Bravely Second didn't perform nearly as well and faced a much harder criticism from Japan due to a lack of improvements in the battle system and the quality of the script/dialogue, so I think Default may very well have been a "right time right place" sort of success, similar to Tales of Symphonia on the gamecube

Consoles and portables are different markets, yeah. I think consoles may become a niche market over the next ten years, with most titles targeting the portable and mobile markets, and everything else being put on Steam.

Single player RPGs are most definitely not dead though.

[Ruin]

I think the big takeaway is more that we'll be seeing fewer AAA singleplayer RPGs from SE in the future, with Dragon Quest being the likely exception
smaller projects like Bravely and the works of Tokyo RPG Factory will still be around, I'm certain

[Insider2000]

If that's the case, put more effort into Dissidia. Release a Story Mode and start selling DLC characters in packs. People will sell their souls for that. Especially if they mix the characters into packs, like doing a 'Celes, Snow, Thancred' pack or something, where an entire pack may not please every fans but entice people enough to pay for them.

[Ruin]

@Insider2000:

If that's the case, put more effort into Dissidia. Release a Story Mode and start selling DLC characters in packs. People will sell their souls for that. Especially if they mix the characters into packs, like doing a 'Celes, Snow, Thancred' pack or something, where an entire pack may not please every fans but entice people enough to pay for them.

Dissidia NT will have story content, just not a dedicated story mode. More like a classic fighting game in that regard (plus fighting games haven't been doin' so good with story modes lately lol)
packs are dumb, imo, unless they'd be themed, tossing three random characters in a pack in just silly. Especially if they're the only way to get characters. Who'd want to pay for three characters, two of which they may very well hate, to get one that they liked?

[Insider2000]

Yeah, but it makes great money for developers.

Truthfully, I just want more characters in general.

[Ruin]

@Insider2000:

Yeah, but it makes great money for developers.

Truthfully, I just want more characters in general.

Dissidia's been making strong profits in arcades, if the momentum continues onto consoles, I wouldn't be surprised if they allocated more funds to the devs (similar to how Stormblood had triple the budget of Heavensward after FF14 proved to be a huge money maker).
But still, these things take time, especially with how much they're building from the ground up and how important balance is for these kinds of games. Rushing characters to pad the roster could mean pretty bad things for the balance and community. I'm still waiting for my boy Laguna, but I know he'll be in eventually. And I have Ramza and Exdeath to keep me company until then.

[Yobiyopi]

The problem is not necessarily single player RPGs, but rather that SE cant make them as good as other companies anymore. Ever since FFVIII they began to lose key developers and from FFX onward the problems began to present themselves. Wether it was in X and XIII poorly designed linearity, combat and writing, or in XV troubled development followed by the same problems as the formers, while also being unfinished and cut into other mediums.
It's more apparent than ever since FFXII was developed mainly by Team Ivalice and wrote by Yasumi Matsuno, and that didnt share any of the problems of the other titles surrounding it.

It's a problem that happens a lot with anything that gets too popular really, other franchises fell victim of this in the past too. Hopefully SE will realize that they still have a strong brand recognition and despite losing face in the last years they can still come back by making good games like they used to, even if they will have to resort to new developers.
Recently other companies managed to make largely unknown series of single player RPGs come back and becoming incredibly popular like: Atlus with the SMT/Persona series, IntSys with FE, CDPR with The Witcher or From with the Souls games (or hey, even NieR with the collaboration of Taro and Platinum). So if even they managed with little to no prior recognition, there is no excuse for SE to not achieve the same with a new Final Fantasy of all franchises.

However if SE doesnt want to even try to come back with a new passionate big budget single player RPG and instead wants to pursue the multiplayer market, we can only hope they will at least put the effort and resources required there to satisfy its die hard fans and attract newcomers as well.

[RoboBlue]

@Yobiyopi:

The problem is not necessarily single player RPGs, but rather that SE cant make them as good as other companies anymore. Ever since FFVIII they began to lose key developers and from FFX onward the problems began to present themselves. Wether it was in X and XIII poorly designed linearity, combat and writing; or in XV troubled development followed by the same problems as the formers, while also being unfinished and cut into other mediums.
It's more apparent than ever since FFXII was developed mainly by Team Ivalice and wrote by Yasumi Matsuno, and that didnt share any of the problems of the other titles surrounding it.

It's a problem that happens a lot with anything that gets too popular really, other franchises fell victim of this in the past too. Hopefully SE will realize that they still have a strong brand recognition and despite losing face in the last years they can still come back by making good games like they used to, even if they will have to resort to new developers.
Recently other companies managed to make largely unknown series of single player RPGs come back and becoming incredibly popular like: Atlus with the SMT/Persona series, IntSys with FE, CDPR with The Witcher or From with the Souls games (or hey, even NieR with the collaboration of Taro and Platinum). So if even they managed with little to no prior recognition, there is no excuse for SE to not achieve the same with a new Final Fantasy of all franchises.

However if SE doesnt want to even try to come back with a new passionate big budget single player RPG and instead wants to pursue the multiplayer market, we can only hope they will at least put the effort and resources required there to satisfy its die hard fans and attract newcomers as well.

Modern Final Fantasy games have a significant fanbase, and SE can easily drive classic FF fans to DQ as an alternative (although they don't for some bizarre reason). They seem to want to keep FF as "modern Sonic" and DQ as "classic Sonic" with little crossover.

[Jaime]

Coming in a December Update.

Mutiplayer Update:

Fixes

• Cases where the player’s level does not rise
• Cases where enemies do not appear in multiplayer quests
• Other things that prevent progress

Improvements

• Shorter loading time between Lestallum and Camp
• Shorter AI comrades generation time

Additional Content

• Timed Quests – Quick Matching-exclusive quests. Defeat a lot of enemies within the time limit.
• Witch’s Shop – Receive the buff effect obtained through a meal in exchange for the Timed Quest reward.

Ignis DLC:

• Play time is between one and two hours if you only follow the story.
• After you clear the story, a different route unlocks. It follows the flow of the original story, and changes to the different route when Ignis makes a certain decision. This route is mainly a boss battle, and is considerably difficult. The ending of this route was created with the thought that they wanted it to be seen by users who were moved by the ending of the main story.
• The story is the densest among the Final Fantasy XV add-ons.
• After you clear the story, a battle against Noctis will become available.

“Episode Ignis” is due out on December 13.

Future Content:

Final Fantasy XV director Hajime Tabata said that he wants to release at least three “Episode” add-ons in 2018, starting with an episode for Ardyn. Many users pointed out that the way they depicted the backbone of the world was insufficient, but Arydn’s episode will lead to a proper depiction of the world’s story.
Tabata is aware that fans want to see an episode for Luna.
For future additional content, Tabata wants to release them when they are in a state of absolute sufficiency. In 2018, the importance is not on releasing the content, but rather the plan has changed to releasing the content in a state where each one is properly sufficient.
Not only does Tabata want to meet the users’ expectations, he wants to betray expectations and create developments that will even get those who have cleared the game and lost interest re-interested.

[Greg]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[Jaime]

@Greg:

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

Also since your a big fan of Chrono Trigger Greg, the composer Yasunori Mitsuda is providing 3 songs for Episode of Ignis DLC, first time he's worked on a SE game in 18 years.

Spoilers in the trailer.

[Greg]

@Jaime:

Also since your a big fan of Chrono Trigger Greg, the composer Yasunori Mitsuda is providing 3 songs for Episode of Ignis DLC, first time he's worked on a SE game in 18 years.

Spoilers in the trailer.

double fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[KageKageKing]

You don't take about a year to put a mechanic that should had been in the game at the beggining.

[Ruin]

At last we can switch between goth, twink, nerd, and jock at our leisure

[Jaime]

Hasimoto also said 2018 will be a big year for Final Fantasy.

Now what that entails, who knows, but I'm expecting this just means:

XV on PC and continued DLC….maybe a complete edition announcement for 2019.

Dissida releases, continue support, DLC or maybe even free villains for 12, 13, 14 and 15 to be release that year.

FF12 gets a stream or maybe even a Switch release.

WoF2 get's announced.

FF7R gets a new trailer, more midgar, more characters, maybe no release window depending if it's actually a 2019 to 2020 game.

@Greg:

double fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

Greg I say maybe wait till 2018 to see what else they add to XV.

[Ruin]

Nomura's Shambling Corpse is dragged out on stage to confirm that FF7R still exists

[tatermoog]

I mean, sure, it might be a big year for Final Fantasy, but also highly doubt they're going to say, "we're going to lay off the Final Fantasy properties, take it slow, etc"

[HeartOfDarkness]

Playing as all four players? Check.

Episode Ignis having a one-on-one mode? Check.

Episode Ardyn being announced? FUCKING CHECKED.

I honestly given up on this game, and was thinking about deleting it off my ps4, but fuck that. With all of this stuff coming, and purchasing the season-pass, and PS plus to play coop? I'm excited as fuck to get on the game.

[Jaime]

Also new Nier game is in development with the same producer and likely Yoko Taro returning to direct.

[Razh]

Didn't really consider playing it, but if it's going to come to PC all completed and shiny like this, I might actually give it a go.

Most of the games I play are out for a year or two by the time I go and play them, anyway. Saves a lot of nerves.

[Ruin]

I'm actually pretty excited for 2020 when the last DLC comes out and I can finally play the game

[Nekketsu]

Motherfucker! I'm still in chapter 8 and the DLC keep pilling up one after another. Let me catch a break, damn it.

[Insider2000]

Is being able to switch between the four characters available to all players? Only to the ones who downloaded Ignis DLC? Those who beat Ignis DLC?

[Ruin]

@Insider2000:

Is being able to switch between the four characters available to all players? Only to the ones who downloaded Ignis DLC? Those who beat Ignis DLC?

It's separate from the DLC, as far as I know. It's just part of the update now that Ig's gameplay data is there

[Nekketsu]

Finished chapter 10. Someone hold me.

! I'm gonna murder the hell out of you, Ardyn!

[Jaime]

@Nekketsu:

Finished chapter 10. Someone hold me.

! I'm gonna murder the hell out of you, Ardyn!

It's going to get better.

! No it won't.

Also a bit from Famistu

Famitsu: And I must ask this: I heard that Comrades takes place in

! the decade-long period where Noct is gone. Can we see Cindy? Of course we can, right?

Tabata: Sounds desperate :D Not in Comrades, I have to say, but you will meet the important characters

! who have changed in a decade in the contents we plan to deliver in 2018.

>! Gussing they will put to use those Older Iris and Cindy models

http://femto-jiokichi.tumblr.com/post/165711943783/jp2en-ffxvs-way-forward-interview-with-director

[Nekketsu]

Finished chapter 13. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but just one question. Was I playing a Final Fantasy game, or…

! a survival horror?
! This game never ceases to amaze me. Of all things, I didn't expect such a sad end for the once feared Empire. By the time you get there, everything is in ruins, with daemons roaming everywhere. And Ravus… such a tragic man. Of course, when you realize who was pulling the strings all along, it all makes sense. The Empire would have never gotten this far, if not for that man.
! Needless to say, the place was unnerving, I jumped off my bed several times.

[Jaime]

! The leaks confirmed they did that to change things up and even in the Versus plot by the time you reach that country it would have gone to shit.

[Nekketsu]

And it's done. I had heard of all troubles they went through to finish the game before the deadline, and they couldn't add all the stuff they wanted to, so somehow we ended up with an incomplete product (good thing have been since then releasing periodically all that stuff). But despite that, it was an incredible experience and all worth it.

! Ardyn has got to be one of the best villians in the history of the franchise, on par with the likes of Kefka. What that bastard did to the protagonist and to the entire world is unbelievable, all for the sake of a long planned revenge. And he succeed, in everything. Even his final defeat in the afterlife, in what's one of the most epic moments in the game, was also in his planning, although the starscourge within him had conflicted thoughts and made his final defeat all the more satisfying, complete with Ardyn losing it and Luna who cockblocks and renders him helpless before Noctis finishes him off once and for all.
! As for the ending… I was already on the verge of tears having to see the look on Regis face as his dear son was being brutally beaten up by the past kings A father forced to deal his own son the killing blow, you could tell how much Regis was holding back.
! And after that came the credits and a scene during the crew's last campfire. It was heartbreaking to see Noctis struggling to tell his comrades with subtle words that he was heading to his death. This time, even Gladio couldn't hold back the tears.
! And just when I thought it was over, when I had already assumed this was the most tragic entry in the franchise, bar none, cue the Sun and the final scene showing Luna and Noctis finally reunited in the afterlife, with Regis thanking her for everything in a written up letter from him. This is the part where I couldn't hold back anymore: Luna in her wedding dress. The photo Noctis took from Prompto as a memory of the time he was alive. And finally, the FFXV logo. Noctis final "Thank You" was the icing on the cake.

I honestly can't ask for more, and I know there're still lots of things to do in the game, in addition to the new content they release next. But I have a recently bought Nintendo Switch waiting to switch on (get it, get it?), so I bid goodbye to this game until the next time.

[Sano]

A new Tomb Raider game have been confirmed.

www.ign.com/articles/2017/12/07/tomb-raider-teases-new-game-reveal-at-major-event-in-2018

[tatermoog]

Nekketsu, I didn't really care for the game that much, but I thought that had the potential to be one of the series' best endings if the full narrative had just been fleshed out and executed better.

But yeah, there are some really clever ideas in there. Glad you enjoyed it more than I did.

[KageKageKing]

SE is bringing back Romancing Saga 2 for PS4 and Switch.
https://mynintendonews.com/2017/12/09/classic-rpg-romancing-saga-2-coming-to-switch-on-december-15th/

[Greg]

Hoboy.

• Mini-Map shows all routes open. Need to check Menu Map to see what’s unexplored.

• Speaking of the menu map, it looks terrible. I wouldn’t even bring this up if its greatest crime was just looking like a low-res map from a Playstation 2 game. But…

• The menu map is completely useless in 2D. You must zoom in and squint to BARELY make out differences in elevation. Which brings me to my next point…

• “The first truly open-world Final Fantasy!” Since when did Open-World mean, “Run 100 meters then HIT A WALL OR FENCE OR CLIFF THAT YOU CANNOT MANIPULATE AROUND WHICH BLOCKS YOUR PATH FORCING YOU TO ATTEMPT TO USE THE TERRIBLE MAP TO FIND A WAY AROUND.”

• Developers: “Here’s your first dungeon! It’s a cave!”
  Me: OH SWEET!
  Developers: “Here’s your second dungeon! It’s a cave!”
  Me: Uh…okay!
  Developers: “Here’s your third dungeon! It’s a…sort of?….ice cave!”
  Me: ……
  Developers: Here’s your fourth dungeon! It’s another regular cave!
  Me: ……….
  (This is not an exaggeration, play the game, it happens exactly like this)
  Speaking of dungeons….

• Over a decade in development and SE’s ingenious solution to loading/progression balance is…!
  crevices….and shimmying across cliffs…. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? IT’S SO DISTRACTING! It destroys the pace! Oh, sure! They try to cover it with banter but every two rooms I have to spend 15-20 seconds crawling through spaces? ARE YOU INSANE!? Who thought that was even a remotely acceptable idea?

-Oh yeah, IT’S STILL A HALLWAY if you haven’t noticed. There’s a ‘world area’ sure. But anywhere that’s a dungeon is still a hallway. And y’know, that’d be forgivable if it wasn’t so OBVIOUS with the above-mentioned crevices and filtering into specific areas that the game wants me to take a VERY SPECIFIC route to get to.

• Random characterization choices with wall-breaking resolutions. Y’know, looking at Noct I thought he’d be a typical Cloud butthole. Not so! Actually has a semblance of personality. Which is The Titan scene with him and Gladio is WEIRD AS F! They’re going along just fine when Noct does literally what he’s done the rest of the game to that point AND WHAT THEY ASK HIM TO DO: ‘RETRIEVE THE WEAPON’ when he falls and suddenly he and Gladio are AT EACH OTHER’S THROATS and for NO REASON other than we’re expected to believe some irreconcilable travesty transpired between them in the span of about 3 seconds. And how does this end? As awkwardly and scene-breaking as possible. “GLADIOLUS’ WORDS TOUCH YOU AND YOU GAIN 50+ STR” HUH!? WHAT!? WHY NOT JUST MAKE THE ENEMIES SLIGHTLY LESS TOUGH!? WHY DID YOU NEED TO STOP THE GAME PROGRESSION TO GIVE ME A WINDOW TO TELL ME THAT!? IT SERVES NO PURPOSE! I’M NOT SITTING THERE WITH A CALCULATOR THINKING, “Ah yes, well, now I should be able to inflict exactly 6.5% more DPS so in the coming battle I’ll be able to stand at a 97-degree angle from the villain and attack from the blind-side while performing a handstand and playing a harmonica with my butthole.”

• Battle System. Ho-boy. The game starts by saying, “A FINAL FANTASY for old fans and new” This is, as you can imagine, complete and utter BS. The extent to which they cover ‘old fans’ in entirely in artwork. That’s it. It’s the lowest form of nostalgia-milking. “Hey look! A goblin! It looks just like the goblins from Final Fantasy 1!” Wow, a thing that looks like thing that I like. Y’know, I don’t buy knock-off products because they only LOOK LIKE the real product. I don’t buy them because despite the outward resemblance, they’re ACTUALLY MADE OF GARBAGE.
  -Battle System Cont. For ‘geriatric fans’, there is nothing resembling the Final Fantasy battle system here. In fact, and I cannot believe I’m saying this, there is more in Final Fantasy 13 that resembles classic FF battles than this. So what is this battle system similar to?

Is it akin to Kingdom Hearts titles? I assumed it was and that had me mildly interested but no, Kingdom Hearts is a far more intuitive, fun and feedback-friendly system.

Is it like a FF MMORPG title? In a way, yes. Imagine you had every class. And you mashed them into one character and you were expected to perform everything that every class can perform at once, that’s FF15’s battle system. On paper, that might sound like a inconceivable amalgamation of button presses, button holds, awkward QTEs, item management, visual/aural feedback+input, multiple meter management, and party member management of AI characters that makes for an ultimately needlessly complex, chaotic, and cumbersome battle system, but it’s so very, very, much worse than that.

Add to that the LAUGHABLY awkward Wait system which is simultaneously critical (in order to scan your enemies for weakness to a certain point) and pace-breaking as you’ll just be getting into the battle only for the screen to freeze just because you aren’t pushing one of them many required buttons controlling no less than a dozen different possible NECESSARY actions at any given second.

I’m not saying it’s tough or difficult. I’m saying it is AGRESSIVELY CUMBERSOME AND SUPERFLUOUS. If you’re making a game like this….JUST MAKE A DMC+SOULS-LIKE ACTION RPG! NOT A ‘CLASSIC-STYLE’ RPG SUPPOSEDLY FOR ‘ANCIENT FANS’!

• I talked above about the designs being nostalgia-milking. I was only able to realize some of these design influences because of the bestiary gallery. Good luck trying to see your opponents in-game. You never will. You’ll only see massive hordes of blurry polygons speeding by performing indecipherable actions. NONE of the beautiful artwork (I’m not gonna rag on the artists folks) can be seen. This wasn’t even a problem with FF13!

THIS IS WHY KINGDOM HEARTS WORKS WELL WITH DISNEY.

The characters are brightly-colored and composed of relatively simple shapes. It’s easy to see what you’re facing. NOT HERE! Given the Lovecraft-like creepiness of an entire genre of baddies in the game, they all look like the same grey twisty-spikey masses of flesh. What compounds this is fighting anywhere from 4-12 of these things at once making it absolutely impossible to appreciate what you’re fighting.

• Back to things being cumbersome, the starting tutorial was adequate, but every (PACE-BREAKING) in-game tutorial is wildly uninformative and difficult to decipher, compounded with the fact that they are incredibly difficult to properly input with a specific guide. There’s supposed to be some kind of chain attack that I can SOMEHOW (darned if I know!) activate during battle but multiple attempts to follow the onscreen prompt of “Warp-Strike to initiate a Chain Attack!” have ALL failed miserably. I’m not saying it’s hard I’m saying, give me a practice arena or something to get used to it!

• PACING AGAIN! Damn, nothing gets my goat like a game thinks it’s clever by making me change up my gear from one battle to the next. I DON’T HAVE THAT MUCH TIME AND IT’S A COMPLETE PAIN IN THE BUTT OPENING MENUS TO D*** AROUND WITH GEAR DURING A BATTLE! THIS IS WHY WE DIDN’T HAVE THAT BS IN OLD JRPGS AND PART OF WHY THEY HOOKED SO MANY IN THE FIRST PLACE!

“Oh, Sephiroth, buddy, chill for a sec. would ya? I see that you’re weak to daggers so lemme just pull this out. Let’s see…potion, nope. Gun? Nope. Lance? Uh-uh. Now where is it? I knew it was in here somewhere???”

OUR TTRPG FOREFATHERS MUST BE ROLLING IN THEIR GRAVES!

-Magic. NO ONE. EVER AGAIN. EVER, EVER, EVER! IS PERMITTED TO SH** ON FF8’S DRAW SYSTEM!!!! NEVER!!!!! Oh man, what a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE IDEA!!!! AGAIN, TEN YEARS!!!

“So here’s an idea, make the players combine CONSUMMABLE ingredients COMPLETELY AT RANDOM for spells that are DANGEROUS TO YOUR PARTY AND CUMBERSOM TO PROPERLY AIM (barrels during Dead-Eye fight I’m looking at you) and OH YEAH! If you find a good combo? GOOD LUCK REMEMBERING THAT SUCKER! Nope, no method of saving your useful formulas! This is AGAIN, something that is expected to be enjoyed during the heat of combat.

-Takka. Talk to this lame-o about a quest. Do it. I dare ya’. Despite the fact that he is staring DIRECTLY AT YOU this is how he will respond. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

“GAHWHAT-HUH!?”

It’s obnoxious. Speaking of obnoxious dialogue…

• Because your game is fully-voiced doesn’t mean everyone need to be talking ALL THE TIME. SE is going Michael Bay by having garbage there that not only doesn’t need to be there, but SHOULDN’T be there! There are two cases in particular that come to mind: stopping while running and swinging a weapon out of battle.

In this game you have a stamina bar for running. If you let it run out you slow down. So, naturally, just before it runs out, you stop running. In this game your party members run behind you. So if you stop running they will SMASH INTO YOU AND SHOUT AND SCREAM AND BERATE YOU FOR STOPPING SUDDENLY.

W.T.F!!!!!!!

There’s a difference between this happening once to help you feel like you’re in the world and happening for the FIVE-HUNDREDTH TIME.

Same thing with swinging a weapon in the field out of battle. Better hope a party member isn’t around! Otherwise they’ll cry in surprise and AGAIN berate you and YOU THEN APOLOGIZE EVERY TIME.

THESE ARE VERY, VERY SIMPLE CONCEPTS! THIS SHOWS HOW VERY LITTLE THE DEVELOPERS HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHAT IT’S LIKE TO BE SPENDING HOURS UPON HOURS IN THIS WORLD!

-Getting money. Despite being a game for ‘rotting in the ground fans’ as well as new ones, this game does NOTHING to explain Gil. I found myself FLAT-BROKE and stuck in a town with nowhere to go or stay at night.

Scenario: Car was parked in the town where you first meet Gladio’s sister. Purchased some things at a store. Had 290 gil left. Explored town until night. Was ready for bed. Went to the inn WHERE THE OLD MAN PRACTICALLY BEATS HIS GRANDSON FOR NOT SPEAKING TO ME IN KING JAME’S BIBLE ENGLISH but yet feels the need to CHARGE ME 300 GIL A NIGHT. Okay, 10 gil short, no prob. I’ll just…..

I’ll just what?

It’s night. Still early game! I can’t beat sh** out there at night! Not only that, the car becomes unusable if stuck in daemon area of alertness!

What option did I have? Had to WAIT UNTIL MORNING!

Now, that’s about 5 minutes or so. Not such a big deal. But again TEN-GDMF-YEARS!

I only learned later BECAUSE I LOOKED IT UP ON MY OWN that ‘Treasures’ could safely be sold. Well….SOME OF THEM ANYWAY. Gee game, thanks for calling my one other source of Gil in a game series KNOWN FOR BENEFITING HOARDERS ‘Treasures’ without any indication that I can safely sell SOME of them for easy Gil.

Again, these are signs that the people making it have NO CLUE how people actually play the game. WHY take away earning money in battle? It serves only to confuse and add another CUMBERSOME layer of complication.

-I have no idea what I’m doing. I was onboard when we were going to meet my bride. Good, got all that. Then the s hit the fan. Okay, cool! I’m still with you. NOW WE’RE LOOKING FOR ANCIENT TOMBS IN ORDER TO FIGHT….er….something? Nifleheim? I guess? We’re uh….looking to fight…a country? That’s our…opponent? Oh but wait! HOLD ON NOW WE’RE GOD-HUNTING but wait we don’t know why or how but we are and that’s what we’re doing now. Oh and it’s taxing on Luna and they as characters know what or why but I don’t and it’s just made all the more confusing because I don’t know why I’m fighting this god who was holding up a comet. Yes. What?

-Reality. Before the game came out, I watched the car-pushing scene and it turned me off immediately.

finalFANTASY.

Yeah, I want to play a game to live the stresses of real life.

It was a joke, I took my jab back then, fully hoping that it would only contrast with the high fantasy contained within.

Here I am at hour 23, still worried about gasoline, having to stop my car at samey modern gas stations with strikingly similar diners buying food and sometimes camping with COLEMAN goods.

It…IT’S REAL LIFE! WHY AM I PLAYING THIS!?

I’ve written 2000 words and I’m not even through half of the things that are terrible about this game. I thought maybe it was me so I went to YouTube looking for an explanation of the battle system. NOPE! Nobody else has any idea what they’re doing either. Just a jumbled bunch of largely, reactive and rarely thoughtful button presses.

Ten years.

Wow.

The biggest insult I can give this game is to say, at this point, I’d rather play Final Fantasy 13, than this.

[Robby]

So Greg, tell us how you really feel.

[Green_vs_Red]

@Greg:

(This is not an exaggeration, play the game, it happens exactly like this)

Nah kind of got tired of caves after playing through Oblivion and Skyrim.

@Greg:

-Magic. NO ONE. EVER AGAIN. EVER, EVER, EVER! IS PERMITTED TO SH** ON FF8’S DRAW SYSTEM!!!! NEVER!!!!! Oh man, what a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE IDEA!!!! AGAIN, TEN YEARS!!!

Oh you don't have to worry on that at least around here given the criticism that occassionally crop up over 8's Junction system.

@Greg:

It…IT’S REAL LIFE! WHY AM I PLAYING THIS!?

Nothing better to do but to torture yourself.

@Greg:

The biggest insult I can give this game is to say, at this point, I’d rather play Final Fantasy 13, than this.

Biggest insult would've been to say you'd rather watch 10's laughing scene for 23 hours straight than play this:ninja:

[Nekketsu]

Oops, someone snaped. This is quite the opposite of what I had written in my final thoughts post, guess I'm too simple.

[Razh]

Well, that was a fun read. Had me chuckling.

Speaking of Romancing Saga, is that the one with Shichibukai inspirations?

[KageKageKing]

@Razh:

Speaking of Romancing Saga, is that the one with Shichibukai inspirations?

The one with the Seven Heroes? Yes.

[Nekketsu]

Not sure how was the state of things when the game launched, but a friend of mine bought it first day and ended up very satisfied. He did tell me they have since then been adding a lot of stuff that make the game more enjoyable.

I still have 3 character episodes and another one focused on important plotlines to go. Not to mention all the optional stuff, I'm really eager to battle the infamous Adamantoise and whatever comes.

[Jaime]

The game was always sold as a fantasy based on reality, during the "10 years of development" (hint it never was, at least full development) before the reboot happened, before the game directors changed due to SE wanted a game out in 2016, to when it's marketing push in 2016. They can't back peddle on stuff they promise the game would focus on after saying shit here and there for years and had a year of production before switching to next gen.

That's why the likes of car, gas, campsites, road trip vibes are in the game why the game isn't high fantasy.

Also the battle director of XV made the draw system from FF8, which he made better in Type-0.

@Nekketsu:

Not sure how was the state of things when the game launched, but a friend of mine bought it first day and ended up very satisfied. He did tell me they have since then been adding a lot of stuff that make the game more enjoyable.

I still have 3 character episodes and another one focused on important plotlines to go. Not to mention all the optional stuff, I'm really eager to battle the infamous Adamantoise and whatever comes.

Adding cut scene's to fill in gaps due to rushed development, off road vehicle, optionally weekly quests, chain links and performance & resolution options especially on Pro options.

[thegab]

I played till I got the flying car, couldn't make it to the giant tortoise. I know there's an option to change the combat you a sort of turn based, but I never tried it. I bought into the hype of the game, and really thought a game that was worked on for 10 years can't be anything but a masterpiece.

It had its moments, but otherwise it was barely average.

[Jaime]

Development of Versus to 15 from news bits and leakers in a nutshell:

Announced in 2006, was just a concept CGI trailer…seems very much a huge waste of money but SE was crazy then, remember 13 was like 10 percent done at the time and Vanille was the MC at the time but reaction to Lightning caused them to change it. Why bother announcing this shit...to show company future plans and the idea if everything does go will doing this is fine. Also remember KH3 was announced to early and they apparently revealed FF7R to help kick of Japanese next gen development.

2008 development halted to get 13 out the door due to 13 being the company focus which was always the case, reportedly due to engine issues & some left to work on other games across the company.

Mid 2010 rolls around, 13 is out and they have their team and begin again....until 14 crashed so hard, Wada announces thy will reboot the game basically and took some staff off Versus, had the likes of 13-2 outsource a lot of work to Tri-Ace and the internal FFX HD team had to move to 14.

June 2011, the game was reportedly still only in the pre-production phase, Full production on Versus XIII began in September of that year.

July 2012 rolls around with Next Gen happening next year and compilations trying to get ideas they want on PS3 hardware working it's decided to push the game on next gen hardware, new engine they are working on and have a new development team come in to assist development. The team that made Type-0 and Crisis Core come in after the success of Type-0 despite pre production on Type-1 being done.

Tabata is now co-director on the title with Nomura the director, at the beginning of development, the new team reviewed the content of Versus XIII and decided what could be sensibly carried over to the new project. While many design elements were retained, some needed to be changed or removed.
E3 2013 they announce it with a trailer using a lot of CG and old PS3 assets and a battle trailer that was a planned target render. XV is planned to be a trilogy of games for what they want to do.

December 2013 according to the very creabile leak, SE higher ups are unconfident in the trilogy idea, Nomura even getting the first game out in 2016, the idea of an action focus FF title and a low view on brand position as a whole. So he is removed from the project, the game has to be restructured into 1 game, still planned for a 2016 release and take trends from popular western RPG's.

Because of this, the intro invasion to the capital city is cut, because doing that alone will add a year to the game development due to it being a giant set piece, made to become a movie to go along side the game so they can focus on the rest of the game. So big story changes were made to account for such changes in focus, even issues in development caused changes to story up to 2016.

The game was delayed due to the team getting SE to agree for more QA testing because they felt if they couldn't get more time and if the game released the way it was in September 2016 it would bomb and be critically panned.

There's more to what was changed and what was planned with the rest of the leaks but I won't be posting them due to Greg still playing?

Team feels the project is a lot of what could have been due to issues but are happy the game was a success and critically received well.

The initial sales for FFXV were under 5 million as Square Enix wasn't confident in the new direction for the series (action). The series would have ended if the target was not meet.

Tabata explained that Final Fantasy creator Hironobu Sakaguchi told him that his mission was to make Final Fantasy a challenger again, by working like this was the last chance or else Final Fantasy would be over.Shortly after Tabata-san was named Director of the game, he talked with the head of sales at Square Enix, and learned that sales forecasts for the game were quite low, under five millions worldwide. Moving away from turn-based combat had been deemed unwise, and that the Final Fantasy brand had was considered

That's why Tabata-san set a sales goal a million units higher than the forecast, at six millions. He thought that setting a high goal would have brought the team together, forcing them to push through whatever obstacle was placed in their way

*The sales are now over 6 Million so this is another update to the previous number of 6 million shipped/digital in early January.

Tabata comments on the success of FFXVIn the end, Final Fantasy XV was completed, and it's finally in everybody's hands. Within a month of release, we sold six million copies. As I said at the beginning, if we failed this time, there wouldn't be a next time, which means that probably this isn't our final Final Fantasy. The series will probably live on.

Sales are over 6.5 million as of September and 7 million shipped.

Now BD2 (Tabata team) is working on a new AAA IP meant to take the success and failures of XV, most likely based on Agni Philosophy and having a online focus due to XV online experiments.

While I'm at it, here's Ignis art to commentate DLC release today:

!

[Nekketsu]

Development hell, indeed. I just can't blame Tabata for the delay, and even less for all the content that had to be cut out in order to stick to the deadline. They did everything that could be done, and now they are patching things up with periodic updates. This project was cursed from the get go, and is almost a miracle that it ended up seeing the light.

[Jaime]

And while I'm at it, here's gif's from Comrades from SunhiLegend:

[Greg]

@Green_vs_Red:

Biggest insult would've been to say you'd rather watch 10's laughing scene for 23 hours straight than play this

No, pretty sure I nailed it seeing as this is what I had to say about 13:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=9013&p=1563514&viewfull=1#post1563514

That's why the likes of car, gas, campsites, road trip vibes are in the game why the game isn't high fantasy.

NOPE! Not the problem!
In fact the world-proper is very close to FF8 and I have no qualms with that!

The problem is how monotonous and cumbersome each and every little task is.

Just to visit one specific location takes so much effort.

Compare that with Xenoblade:

"WHERE D'YOU WANNA GO!? THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD? HAVE YOU VISITED THERE YET? BOOM! YOU'RE THERE!"

Here, they're making me pay to 'fast' travel? Oh man ^o^

[Green_vs_Red]

@Greg:

No, pretty sure I nailed it seeing as this is what I had to say about 13:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=9013&p=1563514&viewfull=1#post1563514

Damn…..I think I actually forgot you wrote that somehow.

[Nekketsu]

@Greg:

Here, they're making me pay to 'fast' travel? Oh man ^o^

Yes… a measly amount. What a big deal, man.

Am I the only who never used the fast travel option?