You darn well knew I meant in terms of readers.
To be honest seeing the crew really miss him, has made me feel better about him coming back
If oda breezed over it I wouldnt really care but the reactions / jinbe speech make it feel like it has more weight and thus the resurrection bringing joy would make me feel happy for them enough that as long as it was explained in anime logic id be fine with it.
Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
Spoiler:
Does anyone even want Pedro to be alive
I like Pedro, but for story purposes yeah I want him to stay dead.
@K.:
Pedro coming back can be done very easily.
After the explosion, if Pedro's body was engulfed flames Prometheus was complaining how it was hungry and his power had been fading. If eating the flames leaves Pedro barely alive, then Pekoms going to the coast could get him to help.
If you want to go 2 levels deep on the absurdity check, then when Sanji's cake knocks out Big Mom, all the souls go back to their original bodies. And just like Moria's ability, the victim of getting their lifespan stolen recovers to when it was taken from them. My point is, if Oda wants it to happen he does not need a convoluted method like I just proposed.
But let's flip this around, if Pedro is indeed dead, then it was a pretty weak showing. The first on screen death had barely any impact compared to Ace and Whitebeard.
So he's still alive, but is slowly burning to death? And after Prometheus eats it, Pekoms is supposed to just stumble across him afterwards? That sounds like quite the stretch… Also the Straw Hats have bursted the way out of the coast, en route to Cacao Island, so Pekoms would have a lot of catching up to do even if that somehow did happen.
As for the souls Big Mom has collected going back if she's knocked out, that is a much more realistic possibility, though we simply do not know yet as to whether or not a soul can return back to one's body, especially if the person has already died. They made it a point to establish that the Homies apparently cannot inhabit the body of a person, living or dead, so I just don't know about that. Again, may be a possible exception if the soul in question actually belongs to that person, but I'm still very doubtful. That said, getting back one's lifespan is not going to miraculously heal Pedro's injuries, so I don't know about that either. I've been under the impression that losing one's lifespan simply means you're that much closer to dying through natural means, but you can always end your life earlier through whatever method, as Pedro has done before our eyes.
As for criticizing the death itself, I mean, I could just as easily say that it'd be a much weaker showing if Oda allowed Pedro to live, as it would easily top the Pell death in terms of being nonsensical, when considering the build-up to it, quality of said build-up aside. Also if the death does stick, I don't necessarily think that it is fair to say that a death has be on Ace or Whitebeard's level in order for it to matter. At the end of the day, it did have an impact, albeit one where we see it is more meant for viewing how it affects our protagonists, rather than it necessarily being a death that's supposed to make the reader feel super bad. (Which is inherently fucked up anyways since so many readers are skeptical about Oda killing off a character anyways.)
I know people are trying to transition away from the death stuff, but Pedro's death can't really be compared to any other character's fake death. First of all, go back and re-read chapter 850. That's the chapter where we find out about his original connection to Big Mom, the death of Zepo, his reason for wanting to live, the fact that he was willing to sacrifice something important, and his willingness to die for the SHs.
In chapter 877, he tells Carrot about his belief that the SHs are who he's been waiting on and then passes his will on to her in order to help them achieve it. We also find out that he had a connection to Roger. After all of this, we see the SHs and Carrot lamenting his death. For all of the other fake character deaths that have happened in this series, not a single one of them has even come close to this (supposed) death in terms of foreshadowing, the passing of a character's will, and the lamenting by the SHs. All of this is important because if he truly is dead like I hope, then that death will come with something significant for the SHs as well as for Carrot. I think that whether or not she joins will be completely be based on whether or not he's still alive.
Pretty much agree, there's a lot of circumstances/context here that past "deaths" are completely lacking, so we really are left with a death that may very well stick for once, rather than it being the usual "death" that I would typically ignore as usual, unless they were dead for a very long time. (Monet and Vergo for example.)
Does anyone even want Pedro to be alive
Not I.
@Long:
To be honest seeing the crew really miss him, has made me feel better about him coming back
If oda breezed over it I wouldnt really care but the reactions / jinbe speech make it feel like it has more weight and thus the resurrection bringing joy would make me feel happy for them enough that as long as it was explained in anime logic id be fine with it.
Eh, I really don't see why they deserve a happy ending here. Realistically, stuff like Jinbe's speech should harden Oda's heart and make him stick with it, but you never know with the guy. :P
@Count:
Pekoms begged Big Mom to spare Pedro, so maybe he counts. Perospero too if it means his right arm didn't get blown off.
The trick is convincing big mom to help the friends of these dudes who wrecked her wedding beat up at least one commander, and stole the germa tech away.
The cake isnt gonna fix a whole lot besides buying time because for all big mom knows the strawhats stole it in the first place. So when she comes to her senses more action is needed by pudding/pekoms/chiffon/pound
Hell it'l be like a Alcohol Anoynmous but for gluttons
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
So he's still alive, but is slowly burning to death? And after Prometheus eats it, Pekoms is supposed to just stumble across him afterwards? That sounds like quite the stretch… Also the Straw Hats have bursted the way out of the coast, en route to Cacao Island, so Pekoms would have a lot of catching up to do even if that somehow did happen.
As for the souls Big Mom has collected going back if she's knocked out, that is a much more realistic possibility, though we simply do not know yet as to whether or not a soul can return back to one's body, especially if the person has already died. They made it a point to establish that the Homies apparently cannot inhabit the body of a person, living or dead, so I just don't know about that. Again, may be a possible exception if the soul in question actually belongs to that person, but I'm still very doubtful. That said, getting back one's lifespan is not going to miraculously heal Pedro's injuries, so I don't know about that either. I've been under the impression that losing one's lifespan simply means you're that much closer to dying through natural means, but you can always end your life earlier through whatever method, as Pedro has done before our eyes.
As for criticizing the death itself, I mean, I could just as easily say that it'd be a much weaker showing if Oda allowed Pedro to live, as it would easily top the Pell death in terms of being nonsensical, when considering the build-up to it, quality of said build-up aside. Also if the death does stick, I don't necessarily think that it is fair to say that a death has be on Ace or Whitebeard's level in order for it to matter. At the end of the day, it did have an impact, albeit one where we see it is more meant for viewing how it affects our protagonists, rather than it necessarily being a death that's supposed to make the reader feel super bad. (Which is inherently fucked up anyways since so many readers are skeptical about Oda killing off a character anyways.)
Pretty much agree, there's a lot of circumstances/context here that past "deaths" are completely lacking, so we really are left with a death that may very well stick for once, rather than it being the usual "death" that I would typically ignore as usual, unless they were dead for a very long time. (Monet and Vergo for example.)
Not I.
Eh, I really don't see why they deserve a happy ending here. Realistically, stuff like Jinbe's speech should harden Oda's heart and make him stick with it, but you never know with the guy. :P
Thats why my "perfect compromise" is the 50 years big mom get took from are pulled out of that homie and pudding's memory powers can give his soul his recent memories as pedro and bring him to life though he'd have a different body as his old one would be blown to smithereens.
Heck maybe even big mom's powers are more OP than pound knows, it's not unrealistic that her soul powers could bring people back or fix their bodies enough for the soul albeit at a great cost, though oda seems to be pretty reluctant on that front with revival so who knows.
Im more focused on how oda will portray the explosion's effect on his body than caring if he lives or dies as im oddly sorta happy with either.
Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
Spoiler:
@Long:
Thats why my perfect compromise is the 50 years big mom get took from are pulled out of that homie and pudding's memory powers can give his soul his recent memories as pedro and bring him to life though he'd have a different body as his old one would be blown to smithereens.
It's certainly a compromise, but I wouldn't say it's a perfect one.
It's certainly a compromise, but I wouldn't say it's a perfect one.
I added " "'s because it's hard too kill someone and not have them die that well.
A bit part of the dynamic going forward is when would the crew know if pedro is alive if it's revealed he is because carrot and the crew cant chill at WCI and the rest of the crew got a real sombering momsmt with brook saying "if only we'd been stronger" and jinbe's speech. If he shows up alive before thhe arc ends, without interference by big mom (I think them being at the mercy of their enemy to save their friend would still make them feel the need to get stronger) is that cheapened? Will they be as lax as they were vs kaido? I'd like for the whole ordeal to move them a bit forward and him being lucky doesnt jive with that.
Big mom getting to that point is the tough part though
Man, no wonder Kaido's hobby is trying to commit suicide. You can't fucking die in this series unless you can time travel to the past or your name is Ace or Whitebeard. I remember Oda saying that he hates bringing characters back to life so instead of that, he just has them tank nukes and shit. >_>
I know people are trying to transition away from the death stuff, but _**Pedro's death can't really be compared to any other character's fake death. First of all, go back and re-read chapter 850. That's the chapter where we find out about his original connection to Big Mom, the death of Zepo, his reason for wanting to live, the fact that he was willing to sacrifice something important, and his willingness to die for the SHs.
In chapter 877, he tells Carrot about his belief that the SHs are who he's been waiting on and then passes his will on to her in order to help them achieve it. We also find out that he had a connection to Roger. After all of this, we see the SHs and Carrot lamenting his death. For all of the other fake character deaths that have happened in this series, not a single one of them has even come close to this (supposed) death in terms of foreshadowing, the passing of a character's will, and the lamenting by the SHs**_. All of this is important because if he truly is dead like I hope, then that death will come with something significant for the SHs as well as for Carrot. I think that whether or not she joins will be completely be based on whether or not he's still alive.
I think you've hit on a very important point here. I'm starting to be more firm in my belief that Pedro is really dead. I don't think I can speak for Carrot's potential to join the crew at this juncture but I doubt Oda has put this much heavy emphasis on the emotional impact of the loss and the psychological state everyone should be in if this was another fakeout not to mention the death foreshadowing that was all over Pedro when they got there. We all knew this was coming at some point.
Also only other time I can remember Jinbe needing to give this kind of extensive speech was Amazon Lily. Not even Bon's "Sacrifice" got this much attention.
This was almost Ace level of emotional in retrospect. The difference is with Luffy now on the level like Jinbe, it was more for his crew's sake, he knew what action to take as the Captain right away.
"The Night Is Dark And Full Of Terror"
@Long:
To be honest seeing the crew really miss him, has made me feel better about him coming back
If oda breezed over it I wouldnt really care but the reactions / jinbe speech make it feel like it has more weight and thus the resurrection bringing joy would make me feel happy for them enough that as long as it was explained in anime logic id be fine with it.
You can't resurrect someone, who hasn't died.
Ain't no motherfucker dying in this story until Shanks gets his Obi-Wan moment.
I fully expect to see Vergo and Monet just casually showing up running a 7-11 in two years.
I think you've hit on a very important point here. I'm starting to be more firm in my belief that Pedro is really dead. I don't think I can speak for Carrot's potential to join the crew at this juncture but I doubt Oda has put this much heavy emphasis on the emotional impact of the loss and the psychological state everyone should be in if this was another fakeout not to mention the death foreshadowing that was all over Pedro when they got there. We all knew this was coming at some point.
Also only other time I can remember Jinbe needing to give this kind of extensive speech was Amazon Lily. Not even Bon's "Sacrifice" got this much attention.
This was almost Ace level of emotional in retrospect. The difference is with Luffy now on the level like Jinbe, it was more for his crew's sake, he knew what action to take as the Captain right away.
I've been firm since 2 weeks ago lol
I should really organize my thoughts at some point
@Jazzy:
Man, no wonder Kaido's hobby is trying to commit suicide. You can't fucking die in this series unless you can time travel to the past or your name is Ace or Whitebeard. I remember Oda saying that he hates bringing characters back to life so instead of that, he just has them tank nukes and shit. >_>
Relax, let me tell you a secret.
What kills at One Piece is the "opposite". When you are able to realize the opposite of something within the series, that for sure got chances to kill a character.
For example, Shanks meets a mini sea king = no worries, Shanks fights Kurohige - red vs black = no worries, Shanks fights Aokiji -red Vs blue = someone must die there.
Bellmere faces Arlong, proud girl powa vs proud male powa, the weakest dies.
Hiruluk will die tomorrow, Hiruluk overcomes death by dying for his own reasons today.
Pell sacrifices for the kingdom wellness -his will against a explotion- alive because he wasn't the weakest.
Pagaya throws Conis before a Enel attack comes to kill both -will against power- alive because ^.
Tom builds ships and consider them as sons - he dies protecting his sons facing a greater power- the weakest dies.
Olvia wants to give power to the people through knowledge - Olvia is killed thanks to the power of the ignorant manipulated ones - the weakest dies.
Did someone actually died at Thriller Bark arc's dawn? Light vs willpower - alive. Kuma the same, he even bended his will because all the guys were sure about Luffy' safety.
Bentham sacrifices himself to a greater strength -has the power to confuse people - is alive because he's not the weakest.
Ace dies because enthropy and chaos theory xd - weakest dies
Shiro loses to Kuro - The stainless whiteness falls at the end to the trickery of darkness - the weakest dies
Otohime wants to give power to the people - people use power to kill her - the weakest dies.
G5 soldiers are touched by a petrific poison that kills -they have willpower to sustain the time within the stone - alive
Rebecca's mother dies because she sacrifices to make a promise -her will is to die- weakest again.
Inuarashi and Nekomamushi keep their vow to himselfs despite Jack's mutilation show -their will is unshakeable- alive
Sanji wants to die because the situations that his life brings to all his friends, think of dying -Luffy arrives to give him hope and willpower- all danger to his life is erased.
and finally:
Pedro sacrifices because of the wellness of the world that a Pirate King like Luffy needs to claim the throne -the same as Hiruluk death- alive… because he has a stronger body and a willpower like titanium!
One Piece is a story of willpower, as long as one has the desire to life and see tomorrow while being normaly strong, it is not a matter of deep discussion to me.
But Pedro had the will to die… He's been yapping about it practically since the arc began lol
I have zero emotional investment in Pedro. He's spouted the same thing throughout the entire arc and has blown himself up twice, both times to no useful purpose since the enemy survive and is only marginally held back.
I do not care if he's dead or not. This is character is aimless and cliched. It's almost comical how suicidal he is.
You are on a quest to become the Pirate Prince, and you decide your fate!
Bon's sacrifice after Impel Down got exactly as much attention and crying, and basically the exact same speech from Jimbei. And that was after Bon had spent twenty chapters solidly and consistently by Luffy's side, fighting with him and sharing scenes and saving his life and screaming out his name for an entire night. ANd after he'd already sacrificed himself once in Alabasta and bonded with them before that arc even started. If he didn't share voice actors with Franky he probably would have been a shoo in to join at that point.
Pedro ain't dead.
@Game:
This is character is aimless and cliched. It's almost comical how suicidal he is.
Actually I wouldn't mind if he became a running gag sort of character. "Pedro's bombing of the week" or something. Or maybe he could compete with Kaido on the suicide game and be featured in a cover story :ninja:
Bon's sacrifice after Impel Down got exactly as much attention and crying, and basically the exact same speech from Jimbei. And that was after Bon had spent twenty chapters solidly and consistently by Luffy's side, fighting with him and sharing scenes and saving his life and screaming out his name for an entire night. ANd after he'd already sacrificed himself once in Alabasta and bonded with them before that arc even started. If he didn't share voice actors with Franky he probably would have been a shoo in to join at that point.
Pedro ain't dead.
That never really bothered me cause while reading I assumed "oh I guess blackbeard could have showed up around the same time or something" also the attack was never shown, if we had bonchan fxovered in poison it'd be worse but him managing to get out of there, headcanonable enough
I think you've hit on a very important point here. I'm starting to be more firm in my belief that Pedro is really dead. I don't think I can speak for Carrot's potential to join the crew at this juncture but I doubt Oda has put this much heavy emphasis on the emotional impact of the loss and the psychological state everyone should be in if this was another fakeout not to mention the death foreshadowing that was all over Pedro when they got there. We all knew this was coming at some point.
Also only other time I can remember Jinbe needing to give this kind of extensive speech was Amazon Lily. Not even Bon's "Sacrifice" got this much attention.
This was almost Ace level of emotional in retrospect. The difference is with Luffy now on the level like Jinbe, it was more for his crew's sake, he knew what action to take as the Captain right away.
Bon's sacrifice did get this much attention.
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
Personally, I like both Carrot and Pedro as characters, though I will feel a little disappointed if either of them ends up being the final crewmate. Honestly, I just can't imagine someone joining after Jimbei. I mean, Jimbei was introduced in Impel Down almost a decade ago. With everything the crew's been through since then, I can't wrap my head around the idea of someone completely new joining in Wano and feeling like they belong to the crew as much as the others. I know I'm underestimating Oda's skills when it comes to character introductions here at least a little bit, but while I never thought of anyone like Brook before he joined, I could still imagine someone else joining and interacting with the other 8 Straw Hats at the time, if that makes sense.
11 because soccer for some reason, oda likes, blackbeard has 10 captains, its gonna happen but it imo will have to be before wano, anyone joining after they beat a yonko will feel like a +1 to me instead of an integral piece. Time's running out, but again wano will be when everything is revealed.
@Count:
Bon's sacrifice did get this much attention.
! http://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/one_piece/one_piece_548/one_piece_548_10.jpg
! http://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/one_piece/one_piece_548/one_piece_548_11.jpg
! http://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/one_piece/one_piece_548/one_piece_548_12.jpg
! http://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/one_piece/one_piece_548/one_piece_548_13.jpg
! http://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/one_piece/one_piece_548/one_piece_548_14.jpg
! http://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/one_piece/one_piece_548/one_piece_548_15.jpg
! http://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/one_piece/one_piece_548/one_piece_548_16.jpg
! http://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/one_piece/one_piece_548/one_piece_548_17.jpg
! http://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/one_piece/one_piece_548/one_piece_548_18.jpg
! http://images.mangafreak.net/mangas/one_piece/one_piece_549/one_piece_549_6.jpg
I can't see the image but I stand corrected. We'll see how it turns out.
"The Night Is Dark And Full Of Terror"
… Fine....
Did some re reading..
There really isn't a real reason carrot has better chance of joining than past support cast..
Was caught up in the moment..
I feel like I'm blasphemous because I never really cared for Bon either.
I can't see the image but I stand corrected. We'll see how it turns out.
Sorry, the manga site I usually get images from was having server issues earlier today.
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
!
I feel like I'm blasphemous because I never really cared for Bon either.
It does sound pretty blasphemous. :(
Bon Clay…love him he would have been a good addition to the crew I hope he joins one day when the story finishes and Luffy becomes Pirate King lol
I love Bon Clay, but his fighting style and Okama-ness has way too much in common with Sanji. At least he was a choice that still stands out better than any of the Minks though.
As respected as Bon Kurei is to me and saving Luffy twice, him being in the SHs just wouldn't gel with me. Probably due to the overblown makeup he wears which kinda turns me off lol.
Okay, two new things to mention:
*Peros is really laying it on thick with implying Pedro is dead short of outright saying it. My thoughts still stand: where else would Pedro be if not blasted to smithereens or spirited off to Mirro World?
*Carrot is actually in the crow's nest this time.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
That's not the crow nest:
She's on the other part.
Also nothing Pero says really changes what he said last so their's nothing to add there either.
Look, whatever that spot is, it's the highest point on the ship and she had just been on the lower deck: there's no denying that her mobility is top notch.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Okay, two new things to mention:
*Peros is really laying it on thick with implying Pedro is dead short of outright saying it. My thoughts still stand: where else would Pedro be if not blasted to smithereens or spirited off to Mirro World?
The "his sacrifice is pointless" bit right? Yea, Oda is such a tease lol
The more Oda writes Perospreo bragging about Pedro's "death", the more I expect the "twist" happy ending of Pedro still being alive lol.
Also, Carrot's mobility doesn't stand out much from treetop-climbing Pedro. I think he even did the exact same thing on the way to Totland.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
Huh, oda made a mistake, Bon-chan changed from the uniform to the bandages in some panels. Don't know what exactly it should be, but it changed.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
Huh, oda made a mistake, Bon-chan changed from the uniform to the bandages in some panels. Don't know what exactly it should be, but it changed.
Do you mean the flashback panels? Otherwise he clearly just throws the jacket off at the end (offpanel) so he can prepare to fight and then it stays off.
@Count:
The more Oda writes Perospreo bragging about Pedro's "death", the more I expect the "twist" happy ending of Pedro still being alive lol.
Also, Carrot's mobility doesn't stand out much from treetop-climbing Pedro. I think he even did the exact same thing on the way to Totland.
Oh c'mon now, Carrot noticeably outranks Pedro when it comes to jumping.
As for Perospero bragging, eh, it'd be weird if he didn't mention it, he's shown himself to be a very vindictive person.
Do you mean the flashback panels? Otherwise he clearly just throws the jacket off at the end (offpanel) so he can prepare to fight and then it stays off.
No, in the last panels, he assumes okama crane position with bandages and then when Magellan ask for final words he has a prissioner uniform
Oh c'mon now, Carrot noticeably outranks Pedro when it comes to jumping.
As for Perospero bragging, eh, it'd be weird if he didn't mention it, he's shown himself to be a very vindictive person.
Which is why I would have at least liked to have seen her jump so that her supposed uniqueness has aome focus.
Perospero literally said his sacrifice was pointless. Pedro is not dead.
Spoiler:
"Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."
@Count:
Which is why I would have at least liked to have seen her jump so that her supposed uniqueness has aome focus.
Perospero literally said his sacrifice was pointless. Pedro is not dead.
Well yea, as in, from Perospero's perspective, Pedro, who was right next to him, he died for nothing.
At best, it can be used as further evidence that there's only two ways this can go: That he is in fact dead, or we're really gonna need some DF shenanigans to somehow bring him back, because clearly Perospero is under the impression that he's dead.
Well yea, as in, from Perospero's perspective, Pedro, who was right next to him, he died for nothing.
At best, it can be used as further evidence that there's only two ways this can go: That he is in fact dead, or we're really gonna need some DF shenanigans to somehow bring him back, because clearly Perospero is under the impression that he's dead.
And from Oda's perspective, he doesn't like characters to have meaningless deaths. Giving the Straw Hats a way to start leaving was nice, but not enough for Oda to make an exception like Ace and Whitebeard?
I can't believe anyone actually brought up jumping when we've seen Sanji prancing around in the air like CP9, can the bunny do THAT?
I can't believe anyone actually brought up jumping when we've seen Sanji prancing around in the air like CP9, can the bunny do THAT?
My impression was that Sanji has to exert a lot more energy to leap around than Carrot seems to. She may not use Moon Walk, but she's quick and nimble when she needs to be.
Sanji and Luffy do jump, absurdly well in fact. (Chopper did as well, before Jump Point became Kung Fu Point and he stopped jumping as high.) But they're both humans pushing past their limitations and exerting effort to do so. Carrot is just natually a jumping character: effortlessly, as part of her standard repertoire of abilities. A lot of the SHs can swim and have done so, but Jinbe's on another level entirely: he doesn't even have to think about it. It's a skill shared by all fishmen, but it's unique to Jinbe in terms of the crew.
We're looking for something unique to Carrot and not other Minks or the SHs, I get that. All I really got is her gauntlets, but again, we'll see if she gets a chance to do something with them here.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
@Count:
And from Oda's perspective, he doesn't like characters to have meaningless deaths. Giving the Straw Hats a way to start leaving was nice, but not enough for Oda to make an exception like Ace and Whitebeard?
I don't think he's dead, but that reasoning is lacking. Ace in his death saved Luffy from immediate danger, true, but it was just the beginning of a chase which required assistance of Jinbe, WB Pirates, Crocodile, etc. WB also failed to protect his sons as the split he created proved to be of little trouble to admirals; avenging Thatch and Ace was also a failure. They didn't die for much more than Pedro would. The significance of their deaths was in the effect they had on the world and the characters, and the whole point of people bringing up the possibility of his death in this thread is just that with regards to Carrot.
All hail Machvise-sama, Arlong Park Character Tournament 2016 Champion!
I don't think he's dead, but that reasoning is lacking. Ace in his death saved Luffy from immediate danger, true, but it was just the beginning of a chase which required assistance of Jinbe, WB Pirates, Crocodile, etc. WB also failed to protect his sons as the split he created proved to be of little trouble to admirals; avenging Thatch and Ace was also a failure. They didn't die for much more than Pedro would. The significance of their deaths was in the effect they had on the world and the characters, and the whole point of people bringing up the possibility of his death in this thread is just that with regards to Carrot.
Ace died in being loved, which was his dream all along (moreso than even wanting Newgate to become Pirate King, and he didn't want that). He died saving Luffy, and it barely paid off. All Whitebeard wanted was a family, and he got them to escape AFTER Ace already died. Part of Pedro's explosive intentions was to blow up Perospero. He didn't. And now he's bragging about that. This is an issue. Ace and Whitebeard's deaths were mainly for the effects they caused, yes. But in how their sacrifices worked in the moment, they were successful. Their plans beforehand weren't, but the momentary intentions behind their sacrifices were. I get if this reasoning is a bit wonky, but there is no way Oda is going to let any villain (bar Blackbeard) get away with murdering a heroic character in present time and getting to gloat about it.
Perospero is getting knocked out in one of 2 following chapters, anyway.
@Count:
Ace died in being loved, which was his dream all along (moreso than even wanting Newgate to become Pirate King, and he didn't want that). He died saving Luffy, and it barely paid off. All Whitebeard wanted was a family, and he got them to escape AFTER Ace already died. Part of Pedro's explosive intentions was to make Perospero deactivate what he set on Brook and Chopper. He didn't. And now he's bragging about that. This is an issue. Ace and Whitebeard's deaths were mainly for the effects they caused, yes. But in how their sacrifices worked in the moment, they were successful. Their plans beforehand weren't, but the momentary intentions behind their sacrifices were. I get if this reasoning is a bit wonky, but there is no way Oda is going to let any villain (bar Blackbeard) get away with murdering a heroic character in present time and getting to gloat about it.
Fixed it for you. Pedro had no grudge towards Perospero, he didn't care about him personally. He only attacked him to save Brook and Chopper and to free Sunny. Which he did. And Pedro's dream was play his part in bringing the dawn of the world, which he did by helping SHs gt the poneglyph, saving them and passing the torch to Carrot.
I doubt Perospero is gonna finish the arc without some kind of punishment. And your argument isn't "wonky", with the only two deaths of heroic characters in present being caused by Blacbeard (directly or undirectly) which you cite as an exception, it's nonexistent.
All hail Machvise-sama, Arlong Park Character Tournament 2016 Champion!
Fixed it for you. Pedro had no grudge towards Perospero, he didn't care about him personally. He only attacked him to save Brook and Chopper and to free Sunny. Which he did. And Pedro's dream was play his part in bringing the dawn of the world, which he did by helping SHs gt the poneglyph, saving them and passing the torch to Carrot.
I doubt Perospero is gonna finish the arc without some kind of punishment. And your argument isn't "wonky", with the only two deaths of heroic characters in present being caused by Blacbeard (directly or undirectly) which you cite as an exception, it's nonexistent.
Alright, I admit that I'm reaching too far with this. It is nonexistent. But I still very much doubt that regardless of whatever punishment Perospero receives, Oda is not going to leave him with any satisfaction in the fact that Pedro died. Or leave any room for people to claim that Sanji indirectly got Pedro killed in any form or fashion. And I doubt that Oda's going to let Pedro die as a stepping stone towards a dream, even if Pedro takes satisfaction in his role being enough to pass on. Mr. 2 got his happy twist ending, and I'm certain Pedro is no different.
So he's still alive, but is slowly burning to death? And after Prometheus eats it, Pekoms is supposed to just stumble across him afterwards? That sounds like quite the stretch… Also the Straw Hats have bursted the way out of the coast, en route to Cacao Island, so Pekoms would have a lot of catching up to do even if that somehow did happen.
It is not "just stumble". I'll put it this way. Pekoms stayed in the capital. After a while you see Prometheus burning the seducing woods. Minutes later Zeus's thunderbolt. Everyone in Big Mom's crew believed they were done for. Afterwards there is a huge explosion coming from the coast. Obviously there is still resistance, which means that even though Mama is attacking the Straw Hats live. The Big Mom pirates are passing information to everyone to stay coordinated. In a report it is announced that Pedro blew himself up and almost killed Persopero. The Straw Hats are still being pursued. Why wouldn't you check the coast? Pekoms has extreme loyalty to both Mama and the Minks and Pedro used to be a crewmate of his.
To the point of catching up: The Straw Hats used coup d' burst and Mama and her warships managed to catch up. Not to mention that three hours are still needed for baking the cake and Brulee is conscious and back in control of the Mirror World, why would catching up be an issue? If Brulee and Pekoms are allies either way.
As for the souls Big Mom has collected going back if she's knocked out, that is a much more realistic possibility, though we simply do not know yet as to whether or not a soul can return back to one's body, especially if the person has already died. They made it a point to establish that the Homies apparently cannot inhabit the body of a person, living or dead, so I just don't know about that.
Well if Pedro is not dead then it would not be an issue. Going back to ones body should pose no problem. The restriction seems to be focused on not giving a third party the soul/lifespans of others. Especially if you consider that Pudding was able to bring back memories from the homies, it could drive a person insane to have multiple people's memories.
Again, may be a possible exception if the soul in question actually belongs to that person, but I'm still very doubtful. That said, getting back one's lifespan is not going to miraculously heal Pedro's injuries, so I don't know about that either. I've been under the impression that losing one's lifespan simply means you're that much closer to dying through natural means, but you can always end your life earlier through whatever method, as Pedro has done before our eyes.
So why does not having your shadow makes you disappear from the world and if you are in mid process getting it back even with your head gone, you go back to normal because "shadow and user have to be equal". You say that taking ones lifespans away makes you older. Which means your body metabolism is slower, Pedro was an old man. So giving him back his lifespans would help his body heal naturally. As you grow older your muscles deteriorates and so on, gaining his life back would make him effectively a young person again and being a strong mink would help in his healing process. Not to mention we have Chopper there and having Chopper saving Pedro would be a testament to his medical knowledge.
Now, I would hope that if he does survive, there is some sort of loss to balance the effect of him gaining his life back. That is easy though, he could lose his legs. And that would not even matter at all. We saw that Pedro used his tail to fly around and fight. He uses bombs to also attack. So this time around Pedro would be like a little hover craft throwing different types of bombs. As I type this it makes me start thinking that Pedro would have a much more interesting fighting style than Carrot if they go on this route. Flying Jaguar Bomber. He also has electro in case someone gets close.
As for criticizing the death itself, I mean, I could just as easily say that it'd be a much weaker showing if Oda allowed Pedro to live, as it would easily top the Pell death in terms of being nonsensical, when considering the build-up to it, quality of said build-up aside. Also if the death does stick, I don't necessarily think that it is fair to say that a death has be on Ace or Whitebeard's level in order for it to matter. At the end of the day, it did have an impact, albeit one where we see it is more meant for viewing how it affects our protagonists, rather than it necessarily being a death that's supposed to make the reader feel super bad. (Which is inherently fucked up anyways since so many readers are skeptical about Oda killing off a character anyways.)
But if you weigh in what Pedro managed to do, to the current situation it was a pointless sacrifice. Because from now on, other factors have to come into play before the Straw Hats escape. So from someone that has had so many supposedly dead characters come back with sometimes minor scars, or not at all. Pedro's sacrifice seems to be done to build up something for his own character. Just think that this is a character that equated having a moment to shine to killing himself. He was already willing to die, and wanted to do it. If you give someone like Pedro a second chance, it open a plethora of alternatives for his character to grow. Because it literally would be a second life, and if he is to follow Luffy, crew or not, Luffy would influence him to try and survive to see the new dawn.
With all this being said, if Pedro does survive, and has no legs, then at least for me, he would make a much more interesting character than Carrot to join the crew.
There is also that weird interaction between that scarecrow and Pedro, that could lead somewhere.
Yeah Pedro's alive. Even if his body is destroyed from the bomb I'm sure he will be living from inside that Pumpkin Homie. Oda's not going to have Sanji being responsible for his death, and not only that but his death only bought them like 1 chapter and now they are about to die again. Plus Peros injury is rather minor. The only time I think when a character had a more pointless death was those 4 guys who drank some poison water to fight Crocodile but died before they could.
Are we sure that pumpkin head thing is even a homie?
Nothing exists; even if something exists, nothing can be known about it. Even if something can be known about it,
The face of a Straw Hat.
