Westworld (HBO series)
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Man in Black recognized the woman from Wyatt's crew ("Ford doesn't want to lose a pretty face") and I sort of recognize her. My brother thinks shes the Host that greeted William to the park and helped him pick his wardrobe.
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Man in Black recognized the woman from Wyatt's crew ("Ford doesn't want to lose a pretty face") and I sort of recognize her. My brother thinks shes the Host that greeted William to the park and helped him pick his wardrobe.
She is the host who helped William and she was in Dolores flashback where the hosts learned to dance.
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Yes and he further goes on to say that he remembers her which also pushed towards the theory that
! William is the man in black
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! I'm rewatching some episodes with my roommate. The room that Bernard has private talks with Dolores with. That's the basement of Ford's play house isn't it? I thought Bernard couldn't see the door to the room when he went back with Theresa. Was Ford letting him go there at some point to alter her?
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! I'm rewatching some episodes with my roommate. The room that Bernard has private talks with Dolores with. That's the basement of Ford's play house isn't it? I thought Bernard couldn't see the door to the room when he went back with Theresa. Was Ford letting him go there at some point to alter her?
! I believe that the scene might have been the encounter between the real Arnold (who Bernard is modelled out of) and Dolores. Notice that Dolores is fully clothed. Arnold being the opposite of Ford, it makes sense that he treats the bots as human hence covers them up as compared to Ford and even Bernard himself who wouldn't bother stripping any bot naked when they interact with it
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It's interesting how this is the first show I've been working with since beginning to end. This is a blessing and a curse too, since I get to see some things before they should be seen (subtitles don't make themselves). Looking forward to the last two episodes.
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Episode 9:
! Wow, there was so much going on, I don't even know where to start. Fan theories about Bernard being Arnold turned out to be true, William absolutely slaughtering all of the Confederados, final confirmation that Bernard killed Elsie (as if there was much doubt left), and of course the reveal that Arnold did not commit suicide but was killed by Dolores of all people/hosts. At first I actually believed that Bernard was able to actually threaten Ford with Clementine, which is kinda silly in retrospect, as Ford truly is a god to the hosts.
With only one episode left, it'll be difficult to finish all plot points which doesn't matter all too much anyway since season 2 was already ordered. I guess they will focus on what exactly happened to Arnold now that his identity is finally revealed, make a bit more progress on the Man in Black and his quest to find the maze, have William reunite with Dolores and maybe end on the start of the hosts' revolution, leaving it on a cliffhanger. Then again, it felt like they were able to put a lot into this episode without making it feel crammed, so I have faith in them to make a good final episode of season 1. -
I hope the finale is good, because episode 9 had a lot of plot development and reveals but it was also kind of a mess in my opinion. Too much going on at once and now that the (exceedingly drawn-out) reveal has happened and the timeline differences are becoming more and more apparent, I am worried about it holding together coherently.
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! Alright so we got one of the theories confirmed about Bernard and Arnold. There was one more thing which was bothering me for a long time and after digging into reddit I got some people who seemed to think about the same too with quite some evidence. This episode however, pretty much confirmed it
! See this at your own risk! This could be a major spoiler for the season finale!! Warning you again! Major spoiler
! Dolores is Wyatt!
! Apart from this I guess the episode was pretty neat in tying things up together with the deaths of few of the employees. I am also wondering what happened to the security dude who got ambushed by a group of Indians and how he couldn't control them. Are they exempted by Ford too? For what reason? -
Still holding out hope that Elsie isn't dead, or at least alive as a robot, cause I think the character and actress portraying her is great and funny.^^
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Just saw it.
! Holy shit.
! Holy shit.
! That was… oh my god.
! Fuck. -
Still holding out hope that Elsie isn't dead, or at least alive as a robot, cause I think the character and actress portraying her is great and funny.^^
Delosincorporated.com confirmed she's alive I believe.
Ford probably saved both her and Stubbs, otherwise he'd have let them die along with all the other security guys.
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That finale was great. They actually did manage to do everything cohesively and in a very satisfying way. Lots of ways this could go next season, but what I'm very impressed by is my feeling that if they ended the show here and never followed up, I think I would be okay with it. I don't need further closure. The ending was that good.
! The one thing I don't really like is the way Maeve was handled, returning in the end for a daughter she knew wasn't hers. Is it because she wasn't "ready" to leave, i.e. not truly conscious yet? I'm also not sure how much of this actually WAS planned by Ford for the benefit of the hosts, versus how much was "if I'm going down, I'm taking you all with me." Mainly because throughout the season he seemed genuinely puzzled by the hosts hearing Arnold's voice, or for example the time he dug up the diagram of the maze, as if it were something new to him. Not something he had been working on for decades.
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Wow, great ending. Most of it wasnt a surprise, but it was executed so well I didnt mind.
! I guess Maeve choosing to stay instead of leaving for the mainland like she was programmed to also signifies that she truly became conscious.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
! The one thing I don't really like is the way Maeve was handled, returning in the end for a daughter she knew wasn't hers. Is it because she wasn't "ready" to leave, i.e. not truly conscious yet? I'm also not sure how much of this actually WAS planned by Ford for the benefit of the hosts, versus how much was "if I'm going down, I'm taking you all with me." Mainly because throughout the season he seemed genuinely puzzled by the hosts hearing Arnold's voice, or for example the time he dug up the diagram of the maze, as if it were something new to him. Not something he had been working on for decades.
That is her becoming conscious, cause she was supposed/programmed to actually leave.^^
Holy Smokes:
Ppl found out on the arg thingy hbo has for westworld the following. #ElsieLives
https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5gkc0o/i_deciphered_the_code_from_the_delos_security/ -
! I guess that's one interpretation. But I figured since her desire to leave in the first place was programmed, along with her whole plan, that her desire to stay and go for her daughter was also due to programming.
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Nah, I read it as her fully awakening, but we will see. :)
! So we have Elsie alive, Stubs alive, the douche story writer alive, Felix alive, probably William as well, and a bunch of other randoms maybe. So should be interesting how the real humans who survived will coexist in this new world.^^
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! I guess that's one interpretation. But I figured since her desire to leave in the first place was programmed, along with her whole plan, that her desire to stay and go for her daughter was also due to programming.
! There's no really other interpretations though.
! We can clearly see that her final programmed command was the infiltrate the mainland, Bernard even says so I believe. But by decided for herself that she must go for her daughter instead, she broke free of her programming and truly became conscious. -
Where is it "clear?" Like unless the tablet with code they showed had something on there that explicitly laid out leaving to the real world as the final (and immediate!) step, it's not clear at all to me. The word "infiltrate" could have multiple meanings alone, hell it could mean infiltrate the party. Bernard said she was programmed to make her way to the train, that's all. Then she cut him off. And of course there are other interpretations. Mine was that the entire escape plan was just a cover for creating chaos, as they put it, and a catalyst for everything to come. Ford himself said they weren't ready… why would he want her escaping? At any rate I don't discount either possibility but it's not cut and dry to me.
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Yeah, they way she interrupted Bernard made me feel that there was something that would compell her to turn right back. So she's still behaving within her programming while thinking she's not.
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I'm super curious where the second season could go. They answered pretty much every question.
That last bit at the end of the credits makes me really like
! Snake bandit. She's so insane.
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I'm super curious where the second season could go. They answered pretty much every question.
That last bit at the end of the credits makes me really like
! Snake bandit. She's so insane.
! Agreed. Insane, but not overly so. Her face when they find out how many bullets you can shoot with the guns they got. Pure joy. Pure insane joy.
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Well strap yourself in for the long wait everybody. 2018 is when it comes back. :sad:
But quality needs time. Next year we have Better Call Saul, House of Cards, Game of Thrones and finally Season 3 of Fargo to keep us entertained. ;)
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2018!!! That's so far awaaaaaay! I think the only way it can go is with an uprising of the hosts. I also reckon that Ford made a host of himself. I don't think we've seen the end of Anthony Hopkins.
! Speaking of Maeve - I felt like she was fully programmed to leave into the real world, but it seems like the only thing that Ford didn't factor in was this weird almost human-esque element of her. I think her seeing this little girl and being reminded of her daughter was the only thing that did not go according to plan?
:blink:
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Season 2 trailer from comic-con is out.
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I was expecting other worlds. Dolores feels like she's riding someone else. I'm glad the last person is still around.
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I don't even remember how last season ended. The series was disappointing from the beginning. I understand that the F-word and blood and generic mind-blowing plot can be appealing though. My only hope (even though I never really gave a crap about it) for season 2 was to jump into another verse, a ninja-verse or something else.
I'm glad they didn't use the "hey, AIs can think by themselves as much as humans" BS.The show is closer to HouseofCards and TheWalkingDead than GameofThrones.
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Shut up and take my white hat!
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I don't like the trailer but I'm hyped for this show to be coming back.
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I will be surprised if they can make up for Hopkins´ departure.
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Hopkins was great but he didn't carry the series.
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Exactly. There are enough fantastic characters in the show who are fantastically played by the actors to easily carry the show without Hopkins, who didn‘t carry the first season alone anyway.
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I didn't realize he was leaving. Or at least I don't recall hearing about it. Did he only sign on for one season?
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The character is dead. I think that complicates Hopkins coming back - who's, after all, portray's a human.¨
Hopkin's didn't have a major role, really. Shouldn't have affect the show much.
You know, as soon as there's a movie trailer out for something I'm excited about, I'm all in it. With tv shows I'm able to hold myself back. It's interesting. Didn't watch the Stranger Things season 2 trailer either; had no idea what the season was about.
Will probably break for Daredevil S3 though.
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Considering he thinks that the hosts are the next evolutionary step, i would actually think he would make a copy of himself but guess not
For me he was one of the main reasons the show had such an impact. For me, each scene of his made a good show great.
Hence it´s hard for me to make up for his departure. -
Anyone still watching this? Season finale is next week.
This week's episode took a few turns I didn't fully expect.
This season has made me far less sympathetic to Delores and massively impressed with Maeve and Ake.
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Delores suuuuucks.
William, Maeve, and Bernard are all pretty interesting, even if Maeve has been stuck in a terrible isolating plot for most of it.
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William
! I wonder…Is he a host?
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Yeah they've done a fantastic job of turning one of the sweetest most likable characters into a totally unsympathetic monster. The name is Dolores btw. (Also William feels beyond any possibility of redemption too.)
Overall though, what the hell are they doing with this season? It feels all over the place. Not as compelling a story, not as tightly woven, and not really a direction I expected. I've kept an open mind but I don't think I ultimately like where they took pretty much ANY of the plot lines.
! Except Elsie being alive. <3 Elsie
Anyway hopefully the season finale has some payoff? I was pretty annoyed that they devoted the ENTIRETY of episode 8 to the backstory of a character we barely knew. And even before that, despite the genius of the parallel narratives in Akane no Mai, it did feel a bit like filler and fanservice.
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I didn't like episode 8 because I think it jumps from "the host are becoming human" to "the host were always human" and a couple of other personal problem. The rest been pretty fine.
I don't hate Dolores I think she did some genuinely non-sensical thing especially with Teddy. But her scene with her father kind of stop me from hating. I don't think the motivation of the character is bad I just the writing is bad because of some misguided attempt at being questionable forgetting totalling that you need the right balance for it. So I mostly find her frustrating.
I hated Maeve last season. I love her this season. She's basically what Dolores should have been(but a bit harsher for Dolores).
The revelation of the great plan kind of feel like something every watcher already knew.
As for the Man in Black. I just disagree with the show. I don't think a man is awful because he is monster in his VR experience. I think his actions count much more and in the real world where the human they know have real feelings exist he was a good father, decent husband and philantrope so I don't consider him evil. I consider him decent/good person that is full of dark pulsions.
About ep 9
! The dude really snapped. I get why he might believe his daughter was a host. She has the clothes and the importance for Ford to do something like that. But those Dellos agents? There's no reason to think they are hosts.
! I saw that theory and kind of want to agree. I kind of wonder if Ford didn't just bank on his paranoia to make him go crazy. He had his profile so he knew the man iin black had paranoia and the idea of being persecuted so I wouldn't put it past Ford to make William crazy because he was using the Park.
! Being a host after Maeve, the ghost nation and the scanner test him would be kind of cheap. also he should be the one that shot his daughter.
! Ford had the most emotion he had the whole series while talking to Maeve and I like it.Overall I think my problem with this season is that they are trying the make the humans cruel monsters rather than just people that think the other party are robots but I'm still enjoying the ride.
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Yeah they've done a fantastic job of turning one of the sweetest most likable characters into a totally unsympathetic monster. The name is Dolores btw. (Also William feels beyond any possibility of redemption too.)
Overall though, what the hell are they doing with this season? It feels all over the place. Not as compelling a story, not as tightly woven, and not really a direction I expected. I've kept an open mind but I don't think I ultimately like where they took pretty much ANY of the plot lines.
! Except Elsie being alive. <3 Elsie
Anyway hopefully the season finale has some payoff? I was pretty annoyed that they devoted the ENTIRETY of episode 8 to the backstory of a character we barely knew. And even before that, despite the genius of the parallel narratives in Akane no Mai, it did feel a bit like filler and fanservice.
Originally I wasn't that interested in Dolores as a character. I did find her progress last season to be interesting. But I don't like what she did to Teddy or other hosts this season.
! Not everyone can make it to the valley beyond. Like…Why? She's killed so many for very flimsy reasons. I'm glad Teddy at least let go one of the Ghost Nation guys.
I liked episode 8 actually. I liked that it showed at least other hosts outside the two chosen ones gaining something as well.
Maeve is probably my favorite host. William my favorite human. He's done horrible things, but he's essentially playing in a big video game. Who hasn't done atrocious stuff in a game? Especially if the NPCs were annoying.
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I liked episode 8 actually. I liked that it showed at least other hosts outside the two chosen ones gaining something as well.
It would have been cool like as a B-plot maybe. But when you have 3 episodes left, dedicating roughly a third of the remaining runtime to it felt highly frustrating/questionable. I still have no idea how anything will wrap up coherently in one episode, even if it's longer than usual.
Maeve is probably my favorite host. William my favorite human. He's done horrible things, but he's essentially playing in a big video game. Who hasn't done atrocious stuff in a game? Especially if the NPCs were annoying.
But the entire point of the show is they're not just NPCs, they're just as real as anyone else. And with recent developments he's less like someone just playing a video game and more like someone who murders his mom when she tells him to take a break from video games because he's been playing too long.
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Episode 8 was good in a vacuum and from an emotional perspective but really doesn't hold up under scrutiny. No one bothered to track the Ghost Nation at all despite every other host being tracked all the time? And he just shows up to the town afterwards? It's based on way too many coincidences and negligence beyond even Delos's normal standards.
Episode 7 was cool because we got to see a lot of intersections between characters, but they rarely had the emphasis they felt they were supposed to. The only truly outstanding episode this season was the 4th (the James Delos one), which I would call the best episode of the whole series.
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It would have been cool like as a B-plot maybe. But when you have 3 episodes left, dedicating roughly a third of the remaining runtime to it felt highly frustrating/questionable. I still have no idea how anything will wrap up coherently in one episode, even if it's longer than usual.
But the entire point of the show is they're not just NPCs, they're just as real as anyone else. And with recent developments he's less like someone just playing a video game and more like someone who murders his mom when she tells him to take a break from video games because he's been playing too long.
But aside from a few most of the npcs weren't really self aware. So the guests wouldn't think otherwise. The hosts can "die." But they just get patched up, updated and sent back. Ready to go for the next quest participants. Only some are people people.
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I think you're missing the entire philosophical point of the premise lol.
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But the entire point of the show is they're not just NPCs, they're just as real as anyone else. And with recent developments he's less like someone just playing a video game and more like someone who murders his mom when she tells him to take a break from video games because he's been playing too long.
But a think to not forget (and the show like to make people forget in the second season) is that the humans don't know they are real people. That's a recent thing. William first travel in this world was learning they weren't real. And the one he had last season was trying to see if they can become real and failing at it. And this season his experience as been Ford using the hosts as tools as usual.
It's not simply suppose to be about the host becoming human. It's also about the humans realizing they are human a chance the man in black don't get(He pretty much gets the opposite travel were he starts consideringthem real then gets proof they aren't while other humans have the opposite experience).
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I think you're missing the entire philosophical point of the premise lol.
No I get it. I'm just saying I also why I wouldn't have considered William a monster. Also that the majority of the hosts that have no free will aren't really people. Some seem to have gained it on their own. Others had it forcibly enabled. Or glitched out in a way that makes them seem "awake." Lots of gray areas. Like annoying story writer guy in general didn't / doesn't hold the majority of hosts to the same standards as Maeve. Or like the Benard and Elsie dynamic. A chunk of the hosts are kinda broken from other main characters doing wildly different things.
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Well the way I see it (and is not-subtly put forward by the show, Ford in particular), free will has nothing to do with how "real" the hosts are. Only with whether or not they can do anything about it. It doesn't make their thoughts or feelings less genuine, or their treatment less important/immoral.
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! Not everyone can make it to the valley beyond. Like…Why? She's killed so many for very flimsy reasons. I'm glad Teddy at least let go one of the Ghost Nation guys.
! I suppose she means people like cowboy Trevor and other people that are basically programmed to be awful. Being free usually means you are free it doesn't change your personality. Maeve kept of all the modifications she added to herself and Teddy and Lawrence kept their personality despite becoming more awake. So I mostly get it.
! The real problem is the host that follows. Supposedly all she wants is let the right people be free. But the only people in her party are basically zombie hosts that have to obey her no matter what. They also failed at putting the right balance for the ambiguity they want to make.
! The easiest example being the episode where Teddy is changed. In it they meet a girl still stuck in her program. It would be the easiest thing to have Dolores give the line "those violent delights…" to help her be free and prove that at her heart despite her actions Dolores is just trying to find her way to the freedom of host but they make nothing with it. Later on we have the moment with Teddy. Again easy moment to have Dolores tell Teddy he can either stay behind because the path will be to dangerous(no threat just let Teddy be free in Westworld) or follow her but they'll have to do awful things going forward. Then you have Teddy choose Dolores and be the one to want to be changed. ANd it's a shame because it's the episode that started in a way that gave me some hope that maybe they wouldn't failed totally at the character with her early talks wit h Teddy. The only moment they begin to do something with it are with her dad but that's not enough.