Exactly what I thought. Why universal destruction???
Dragonball Discussion
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Because it need stakes and the omniking can?
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The Omni King says he'll destroy the losing universes? Just because?
So we have stakes just for the sake of stakes?
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It seems that way. They are on the whims of an omnipotent child (s?)
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Man, Goku really fucked up in bringing a second Omni-King into the present, didn't he?
Hey at least a universe won't be destroyed because of a temper tantrum.
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But at least this isn't a "let me spare Picolo/Vegeta/Frieza/Cell", or Vegeta's middle age crisis 1 and 2, it's a "let me help the old turtle" going horribly wrong.
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I wonder if this is gonna be the final arc.
Also, kinda disappointed that all the Hakaishins look like Beerus but I don't really care that much.
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Also, kinda disappointed that all the Hakaishins look like Beerus but I don't really care that much.
From the minute Champa showed up, I've never expected anything different.
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From the minute Champa showed up, I've never expected anything different.
To be fair though, didn't they say something about how universe numbers that added up to 13 meant that they are direct parallel universes? Meaning that you should expect those universes (such as Universe 6 and 7, which add to 13) to be mirrors of each other while the others are more varied?
Regardless, I'm not surprised at all after the trend of recycled transformations. But it would've been nice to see, say, a Ra-themed God of Destruction.
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I wonder if this is gonna be the final arc.
Also, kinda disappointed that all the Hakaishins look like Beerus but I don't really care that much.
They just put that DB story committee together so unlikely this is the end.
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Wait a sec, since Beerus and Champa are twin brothers (I think that was stated by either one of them, correct me if I'm wrong) and all Gods of Destruction are cats like them, does that mean that they're all related in some way?
Yes, I know this is a stupid question.
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I can't see shit of the designs…
So I have no clue that there are just cats
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I hope Lunch to be back in this arc. Come on! You had Mami Koyama doing Arale again. Why not Lunch?
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What do the voice actors have to do with reusing characters who haven't been seen in decades?
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I hope Lunch to be back in this arc. Come on! You had Mami Koyama doing Arale again. Why not Lunch?
Plot-Twist, she is 17s wife, she forgot about Tenshinhan because he was gay for Chatzou, lol.
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Plot-Twist, she is 17s wife, she forgot about Tenshinhan because he was gay for Chatzou, lol.
What?! I thought Ten was gay for Yamcha!
This would be ironic since 17 replaced Lunch in the Buu Saga. That's why 17 said that about hearing again Goku's voice. -
Trailer subbed.
Each Universe will have 10 fighters, and the losing Universe will have their Universe DELETED immediately.
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At a guess, somebody will lose out in the preliminary rounds while the remaining universes will all have at least one person remaining for a while.
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I wonder, why roshi? even if we assume that he can be as destructive as krillin or tien, his stamina is worse than the fusion time of Gotenks.
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I feel bad for Gowasu, if they cant find people stronger than Zamasu in U10, they are completely fucked. Wouldnt be surprised if he is forced to bring back Black out of desperation.
As for U6, Champa will probably fill his team with the U6 Saiyans, and we might to see the King fight(Cabba said he was as strong as Vegeta):
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The tiers are, according to my understanding:
Goku, Vegeta
Gohan, Mr Buu
Picolo
18, 17?
Krillin, Tien
Roshi–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Wasn't zamazu a god, and thus unelegible for the tournament?
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Black was mortal(well he has a mortal body), so he would be eligible, and Gowasu would just ask the U10 Hakaishin to keep an eye on him.
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Black also isn't a u10 native. And the asspull done to kill him would render him unavailable for resurrection.
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Man, Universe 6 is surely lacking with strong fighters outside of Earth. I guess Frieza was really good at his work.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
And who is ready to meet other 100 new characters that most of them will not even be bothered getting to know very well because it is too much new fighters?
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Oooo 17 is back. Always wondered what he was up to.
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Did anyone feel bad for Vegeta? Beerus has 0% faith in him and only trusts Goku in making the U7 the winner, if only he got see what Vegeta did in the Trunks Arc but the last time he saw Vegeta fight, it was when Hit curbstomped him.
The natural progression would be Vegeta beating the guy that beats Goku in clean fashion(without cheating or bs excuse), doing so would make him regain Beerus trust.
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It's motivation 101. Vegeta's drive is external competition, while Goku is more internal, its not about proving it to others but to himself.
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Did anyone feel bad for Vegeta? Beerus has 0% faith in him and only trusts Goku in making the U7 the winner, if only he got see what Vegeta did in the Trunks Arc but the last time he saw Vegeta fight, it was when Hit curbstomped him.
The natural progression would be Vegeta beating the guy that beats Goku in clean fashion(without cheating or bs excuse), doing so would make him regain Beerus trust.
Maybe Not. Beerus is known to be manipulative. He may simply being saying what he felt was needed to make Vegeta train harder. There is no doubt that he knows Goku's potential is high, but I doubt he looks down on Vegeta so much that he completely writes him off.
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Let me brush up on my db timelines:
From which timeline did cell come? Asuming the universes branches only when time travel occurs. The explanations always talk about 4 timelines, but counting cells and trunks, we only had 3:
Original timeline: everyone dies, trunks returns to change it
Main timeline: the timeline where everything happens, young trunks and fetus cell
The alteredest timeline: trunks kills the androids, then this cell kills him and becomes the main threatTrunks kills the androids when he returns after being revived, rigth? Then in cells timeline when does he manage it?
I know that I'm breaking my rule of "the author didn't think this as deeply as I'm trying rigth now" but this issue predates that rule. And I wish to understand the zamatsus, but first trunks and cell.
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I know that I'm breaking my rule of "the author didn't think this as deeply as I'm trying rigth now"
That's your mistake!
Also the wikia doesn't talk about 4, but 5 instead (not counting DBS timelines). So in Cell's timeline Frieza and Cold were killed by Trunks from that timeline 5 who appearently didn't do anything about the heart virus because whatever. Well, maybe in this timeline 5 there wasn't a cure or the heart virus at all. Oops, looks like I'm repeating your mistake…
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Really not digging Black's characterization in the latest manga chapter, Toyotaro turned him into a total wimp.
First bad manga chapter.
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Since there were three distinct instances of time travel, there should be a minimum of four timelines. That's assuming only traveling backwards creates a new timeline.
The original where Goku killed Freeza and King Cold with the Androids killing everybody else.
A new timeline created by Trunks's first trip to the past where he kills Freeza and King Cold.
Another timeline created by Cell's trip to the past.
Another timeline created by Trunk's second trip to the past.There should be at least one timeline where Trunks wasn't around to warn them about the other Androids, which might have given Gero a chance to alter 17 and 18.
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The Time Travel rules in Dragon Ball have always been screwy to me and honestly, it’s always kinda bothered me with regards to how exactly the time travel is supposed to work.
This honestly bothers me more than Trunks’ powerups in this arc seems to have bothered everyone else.Ok, so. Trunks Time Travels to the past to give Goku Heart medicine right? By doing this he hopes to create a new timeline where the Cyborgs never killed everyone and everything is perfect right?
Then Trunks, secure in the knowledge that he just fixed everything, uses the Time Machine to jump Back to the Future… and then a little while later, he comes back to check on everyone only to be alarmed that the Cyborgs they are fighting aren’t the ones he’s familiar with… so he sticks around to help fight these tough battles. Then Cell shows up, training happens, Trunks gets stronger etc.
So far we’re fine, this all makes sense so far.
But then at the very end of the arc, Trunks travels back to the future again…. And now he’s back in the future destroyed by 17 and 18……………. What?…....................Everything other pop culture media like Back to the Future have told me about Time Travel says this shouldn’t be possible. Once he changed the past and went back, it should have been going back to the future of the new timeline he just made.
He should never have been able to go back to his timeline. He should have been stuck in the new one.Then, Super seems to follow this logic where he can just jump back and forth between the timelines… and what’s more, the jumps seem to happen in “Real Time” in Super.
This is Time Travel, so there shouldn’t be ANY real sense of urgency here, which Trunks seems to have. He should be able to go back to the past and then leisurely prepare as long as he wants, hell, he could spend 10 years in the “Past” timeline if he wants and then jump in the time machine and go back EXACTLY to the moment he originally left…. But no, the entire arc treats it like every second he spends in the “Past” is time Black could be killing more people in the “Future”.This looks more like reality jumping than time jumping at this point…… BUUUUT, Toei put out a graphic on their site explaining the timelines, and it definitely says there that this is time travel…. So…. What?.... just…. Just what?....
I get why the Kaioshin including Zamasu and Black would be able to jump timelines since we see that each new timeline creates a new time ring. They know the other timeline exist and have separate rings for them, so it stands to reason they can travel to them.
Ok.
Fine.But how can Trunks do this when he’s using a time machine made by Bulma?!
They could easily fix this with like one line saying “Yeah, my mom figured out how to jump timelines” and be done with it…
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Curious about U4 Hakaishin, Is he Harambe?
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This looks more like reality jumping than time jumping at this point…… BUUUUT, Toei put out a graphic on their site explaining the timelines, and it definitely says there that this is time travel…. So…. What?…. just…. Just what?....
Might be thinking too hard on it. After all it is still cartoon physics.
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The Time Travel rules in Dragon Ball have always been screwy to me and honestly, it’s always kinda bothered me with regards to how exactly the time travel is supposed to work.
This honestly bothers me more than Trunks’ powerups in this arc seems to have bothered everyone else.Ok, so. Trunks Time Travels to the past to give Goku Heart medicine right? By doing this he hopes to create a new timeline where the Cyborgs never killed everyone and everything is perfect right?
Then Trunks, secure in the knowledge that he just fixed everything, uses the Time Machine to jump Back to the Future… and then a little while later, he comes back to check on everyone only to be alarmed that the Cyborgs they are fighting aren’t the ones he’s familiar with… so he sticks around to help fight these tough battles. Then Cell shows up, training happens, Trunks gets stronger etc.
So far we’re fine, this all makes sense so far.
But then at the very end of the arc, Trunks travels back to the future again…. And now he’s back in the future destroyed by 17 and 18……………. What?…....................Everything other pop culture media like Back to the Future have told me about Time Travel says this shouldn’t be possible. Once he changed the past and went back, it should have been going back to the future of the new timeline he just made.
He should never have been able to go back to his timeline. He should have been stuck in the new one.Then, Super seems to follow this logic where he can just jump back and forth between the timelines… and what’s more, the jumps seem to happen in “Real Time” in Super.
This is Time Travel, so there shouldn’t be ANY real sense of urgency here, which Trunks seems to have. He should be able to go back to the past and then leisurely prepare as long as he wants, hell, he could spend 10 years in the “Past” timeline if he wants and then jump in the time machine and go back EXACTLY to the moment he originally left…. But no, the entire arc treats it like every second he spends in the “Past” is time Black could be killing more people in the “Future”.This looks more like reality jumping than time jumping at this point…… BUUUUT, Toei put out a graphic on their site explaining the timelines, and it definitely says there that this is time travel…. So…. What?.... just…. Just what?....
I get why the Kaioshin including Zamasu and Black would be able to jump timelines since we see that each new timeline creates a new time ring. They know the other timeline exist and have separate rings for them, so it stands to reason they can travel to them.
Ok.
Fine.But how can Trunks do this when he’s using a time machine made by Bulma?!
They could easily fix this with like one line saying “Yeah, my mom figured out how to jump timelines” and be done with it…
He has time travel machine and can travel to the past. The machine let him return to the timelines he created by changing the past. Otherwise he would have been stuck in the timeline he creates regardless(even when he travel after giving the medecine to Goku).
The need to let the exact same time pass is new but they probably take it from Trunks telling them if he will be able to come back to them to fight the cyborgs(which could mean he doesn't think he will be able to recharge the machine in his shitty world) but even with that it could simply be that that's the only way the machine can track the timeline he visited(since he is travelling 2 independent timeline once he has change something).
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They don't run on Back to the Future rules where time rewrites itself. They run on Multiverse theory where every time travel creates a whole new universe copy.
Trunks going back and helping fixed a world to make it a better place, but it didn't fix his world.
Obviously the first time around they would hope for timeline replacement, and wouldn't know it was multi-timeline until after they'd done it once.
Of course, Trunks going back multiple times led to multiple timelines and multiple Cells in the future.
It's a bit closer to Star Trek rules which does multiple universes and timelines constantly (including the mirror universe with bearded Spock.)
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Question: what happened in the timeline where Trunks doesn't come back a second time? Does Gero not get away to activate 17 and 18? Or does Cell get bored from not having Beefy Trunks to beat up on and just decided to wipe out humanity on the spot?
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Without Trunks showing up and distracting everybody, Piccolo probably just kills Gero right after slicing his hand off. So unless Gero set up a contingency plan to activate them in case he didn't come back, the remaining Androids would just stay in stasis until Cell finishes growing.
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Toei updated their timeline chart.
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But then what happens in the timeline where Link is absorbed by Cell, and he returns using the harp of ages?
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They don't run on Back to the Future rules where time rewrites itself. They run on Multiverse theory where every time travel creates a whole new universe copy.
Trunks going back and helping fixed a world to make it a better place, but it didn't fix his world.
Obviously the first time around they would hope for timeline replacement, and wouldn't know it was multi-timeline until after they'd done it once.
Of course, Trunks going back multiple times led to multiple timelines and multiple Cells in the future.
It's a bit closer to Star Trek rules which does multiple universes and timelines constantly (including the mirror universe with bearded Spock.)
Yeah I was thinking about it that way too, but the problem really occurs when you put Super into the mix. You can say he is just traveling back in his own timeline during the android and cell sagas, but once super is in the mix it becomes murky. He is no longer traveling back on his own timeline he is instead jumping to a point in the past in a separate time line that has progressed alongside his own.
Like I said, I write it off as cartoon physics; because when you start to put in the other things like the time machine that was fixed by present Bulma it gets even worse.
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I was thinking the tournament should break down in 2 groups of 6 Universes.
With the Best 4 Universes out of each group moves on the 2nd round(Quarterfinals, and so it becomes like a regular TB tournament).It would make the whole thing completely unpredictable unlike the U6 Tournament.
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Since nobody mentioned it, I find the start of this arc extremely well done. After the goofy filler episodes this one felt heavily eerie. Tone and visuals somehow reminded me of Samurai Jack. Sinister, but clean. Show, don't tell. Loved it.
And if I were Vegeta, I would stop training after such a blalant try to provoke me from Beerus. But I'm not Vegeta.
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"Gohan's misfortune! It can't be, the Great Saiyaman gets turned into a movie!?"
Evil can't be forgiven!! The ally of Justice, Great Saiyaman appears!!
Unexpected events get Gohan in high spirits!
The Great Saiyaman and Mister Satan will have their dream match in a movie! The Great Saiyaman is to be played by an actor called Bari Quand (he's the guy Boo sees in a magazine and shifts his face into to try and kiss a girl in the Boo arc, his pun apparently comes from the French company "Bariquand et Marre" that manufactured barber's clippers) but Gohan himself volunteers to be his stuntman in dangerous scenes.
Jaco this week
A great error during patrol!?
In the middle of escorting the heinous criminal "Watagasshu", Jaco stops by a ramen stand in space. While distracted, the criminal escapes…!?
Well Gohan is saving the day!, Toei wants to build him up for the upcoming Multiversal Tournament.
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What a twist!
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In the latest episode Vados gave an explanation for Hit's time-skip, and here's what I understood so far:
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Its basically like King Crimson + Janemba powers.
Fight was decent despite the art being off model in some scenes.
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Toriyama made a tribute autograph to Hideaki Sorachi, the author of Gintama , in Great Gintama Exhibition, which is now held in Tokyo.[hide] source of the pic: weibo
[/hide]Here is my translation of their comments.Toriyama:
My daughter is a big fan of Gintama. She has many goods of Gintama in addition to volumes.
She reads Gintama again and again despite her having rarely read her father's mangas.
One day I found her reading Dragon Ball, but actually she was just searching for the original chapter which Gintama's Dragon Ball parody is based on.
Sorachi-sensei, thank you…Sorachi:
Hey, Shenron!! My hope has come true although I have only 2 "balls"!!
Thank you so much, Toriyama-sensei and especially your daughter, Princess.