Other people: "OH WOW! CARROT CAN JUMP REALLY HIGH!"
Me: cough Sanji, Luffy and Brook could do that same thing. cough
Might as well have recruited Bellamy.
Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)
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Congrats on the 700th page by the way.
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Next new character introduced in the story for nakama.
#amidoingitright?
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@Bartholemew:
As well as Nami. And Wanda wearing her clothes is undeniable foreshadowing for her being the next nakama.
As replacement of Nami oder?
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@Joy_Boy's_Will:
I actually expect this to happen. Luffy is going to unite the people of the world in a way that has never been done before. Everyone is equal.
virtual high five
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@Bartholemew:
Yeah, Oda already did have two chapters with the same title (which also is foreshadowing), so I see no problem for another chapter called 'The second one'.
The NamixLuffy shippers are gonna be mad xD
Yeah I think you have a point there with the things you summed up.I personally much rather have Chopper replaced by an animal.
I also dig the theory that every race should become part of the crew.
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@Bartholemew:
As well as Nami. And Wanda wearing her clothes is undeniable foreshadowing for her being the next nakama.
no no, the clothes are not foreshadowing!
It was the lick! Wanda licking Luffy shows she's gonna join!
She's gotten farther than any other female in op in 'kissing' Luffy! -
Ok.. I really really like Carrot a lot more now
Sent from my HTC D816w using Tapatalk
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Carrot will replace Sanji.
Introduced on par w/ Zoro.
Rabbit so probably has similarly good leg strength even if she primarily uses that electro claw/paw thing
Named for a vegetable so might be cook.
It's all too perfect :ninja: -
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This post is deleted!
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Couldn't that battle be robbed from him by Shilliew?
Lol, no. Oda's not going to blow 25+ years of buildup like that.
It might be a friendlier fight than originally expected, or post-war… but there's no way we're not getting that after all this time. Shiryu does make it a little weird since the BB's should be the final opponents all around and that guy shouldn't be better/stronger than Mihawk, but...
Maybe Zoro will fight Mihawk first and be wounded at the time he fights Shiryu, but that would also be a disservice since all the other Strawhats will be giving their all when the time comes.
Hard to say. But no, no way Zoro isn't fighting Mihawk.
Its tricky because Raftel will be the culmination of a lot of dreams. Luffy, Robin, Franky, Sanji assuming All Blue is there, and being most of the way for Brook... but it won't fullfill Nami, Chopper or Usopp's dreams... and Zoro's is wholly dependant on beating Mihawk. So in Zoro and Usopp's case, its purely being brave/strong enough to reach the end in the first place.
It'll be the climax resolution for the personal quests for some of them, but won't be the final war actual series finale where the biggest fights happen... and Nami's dream in particular has to be an epilogue sort of thing since it will require several trips around the world.
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Lol, no. Oda's not going to blow 25+ years of buildup like that.
It might be a friendlier fight than originally expected, or post-war… but there's no way we're not getting that after all this time. Shiryu does make it a little weird since the BB's should be the final opponents all around and that guy shouldn't be better/stronger than Mihawk, but...
Maybe Zoro will fight Mihawk first and be wounded at the time he fights Shiryu, but that would also be a disservice since all the other Strawhats will be giving their all when the time comes.
Hard to say. But no, no way Zoro isn't fighting Mihawk.
Its tricky because Raftel will be the culmination of a lot of dreams. Luffy, Robin, Franky, Sanji assuming All Blue is there, and being most of the way for Brook... but it won't fullfill Nami, Chopper or Usopp's dreams... and Zoro's is wholly dependant on beating Mihawk. So in Zoro and Usopp's case, its purely being brave/strong enough to reach the end in the first place.
It'll be the climax resolution for the personal quests for some of them, but won't be the final war actual series finale where the biggest fights happen... and Nami's dream in particular has to be an epilogue sort of thing since it will require several trips around the world.
It's true that Mihawk himself stated that he would wait for Zoro for a face off but Shiliew might just complicate the situation a bit. We assumed that Mihawk would forever hold the strongest swordsman title till Zoro comes back because technically Zoro wanted to fight for the title which Mihawk happens to own currently. Perhaps we might see Shiliew grab that title away from Mihawk which would then provide ample reasons for Zoro to face him. Or as you said a "friendly" match between them happens with a Shilew twist at the end which gets himself targeted by Zoro later on
I am guessing Mihawk getting defeated by Shillew and Shanks getting in trouble with BB makes a good story for the final faceoff between the BB and strawhat pirates because they both are crucial mentor characters for the protagonists
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I disagree about Luffy's dream fulfilling at Raftel. No way Luffy will be able to reach his dream before the climax. It will be the final battle with Blackbeard what will decide who will stand atop as the person with the most freedom.
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Not really ; he will need to "surpass" him, which doesn't necessarily mean beating him. If Mihawk gets killed by Shiliew before, then Zoro's dream would be fulfilled by beating Shiliew.
I think in this case yes he needs to actually beat Mihawk. You don't gain the title strongest swordsman and not fight the person with the current title. Plus that would be a massive let down to have Zoro not get a proper rematch.
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Not really ; he will need to "surpass" him, which doesn't necessarily mean beating him. If Mihawk gets killed by Shiliew before, then Zoro's dream would be fulfilled by beating Shiliew.
No. Seriously. Oda is NOT going to blow 25+ years of buildup by not having that fight. The BB's status as final opponents complicates the hierarchy some, but there is zero chance of Zoro not fighting Mihawk specifically to gain the title.
Similarly, while Shanks is going to probably fall to BB, its not going to be before he and Luffy meet again an exchange the hat. (And promptly have it given back.) There's a difference between having a surprise plot twist, and messing with audience expectations to THAT degree.
It's hard to figure where the Mihawk fight will lay that makes sense power-wise and keeps the drama, because it probably needs to be an all out no holds- barred fight that's doing crazy things like cutting islands in half, in order to make it as impressive and dramatic as it needs to be, rather than a one slash quickie fight… but where to put "the most lengthily anticipated fight in the series" other than the very end is tricky.
Yes, you can have a dramatic "mentor is dying avenge me!" bit (But I can't see that being played twice... or even three times with Usopp's father) but you don't skip over the long awaited reunion to replace it with tragedy. Not in a series like this. This isn't Game of Thrones. You can have tragedy strike right after the good thing, sure, but you aren't going to skip those crucial reunions and payoffs.
(Luffy and Shanks, and Usopp and Yassopp is easy. Zoro and Mihawk is more difficult. While it would make sense for their duel to be a single one strike one blow thing... and then later Zoro could go all out against Shiryu with the fancy stuff... no one would be satisfied with a casual one strike duel.)
@Bartholemew:
I disagree about Luffy's dream fulfilling at Raftel. No way Luffy will be able to reach his dream before the climax. It will be the final battle with Blackbeard what will decide who will stand atop as the person with the most freedom.
Yes and no. While we still dont know what the journey to Raftel will actually entail, it does need to be a celebratory moment unlike any other since its been waited for for decades… it can't be somethign that's just narrowly missed by BB getting to it first. And its fine. We know that the true history is there and just finding One Piece won't be the end of the series, it'll be like the 9/10 mark... after that needs to be the great war that will take 2 or 3 years.
There at least its a little easier to know the order of things. Luffy gets the One Piece, and becomes Pirate King... but then has to prove he's really worth it when he assembles his army of followers for the war. It's not like Naruto where it's a pure epilogue thing for no particular reason, Luffy can be King for the entire final arc but still have to fight for it. Blackbeard can concede that title but still be a threat to the world... the threat isn't BB getting the title, (Heck, he already ditched "Warlord" and moved up to "Emporer") the threat is BB having an ancient weapon and the three most powerful devil fruits.
A title is just a title. Having it is meaningless unless you get to show off and defend it afterward. Luffy's Pirate King is based on building respect and finding One Piece. Proving the freest part comes with defending that title. After all that buildup, the fans NEED the payoff they've been promised for decades.
Can you just imagine the strawhats arriving at Marijoa with a fleet behind them, an the big bosses going "who is that? That sail, that army, could it be..." two page spread announcing Luffy's arrival with him looking super badass and wearing a coat looking dead serious and declaring in huge letters "I AM THE PIRATE KING!" and THEN starting the war.
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I think in this case yes he needs to actually beat Mihawk. You don't gain the title strongest swordsman and not fight the person with the current title. Plus that would be a massive let down to have Zoro not get a proper rematch.
But if Shiliew beats Mihawk, he'll become the world's greatest swordsman, right ?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
No. Seriously. Oda is NOT going to blow 25+ years of buildup by not having that fight. The BB's status as final opponents complicates the hierarchy some, but there is zero chance of Zoro not fighting Mihawk specifically to gain the title.
Similarly, while Shanks is going to probably fall to BB, its not going to be before he and Luffy meet again an exchange the hat. (And promptly have it given back.) There's a difference between having a surprise plot twist, and messing with audience expectations to THAT degree.
You're right for the first part.
But I disagree for the second ; I think that Shank is going to die before Luffy gives him the hat back. Maybe Shanks last words would be "You've become a true pirate ([Luffy])… This hat suits you well" (see the parallel with Rayleigh ?) and then Luffy would pass it on or put it on his grave or simply keep it.
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Nope. Oda is not going to taint the Luffy/Shanks reunion that way. Shanks didn't count them meeting at the war because Luffy was in bad shape, and it would go the same the other way around.
They meet, get to have a party at long last, maybe a bit of sparring. Then Luffy goes off to head to Raftel, and Shanks (not telling him) goes off to fight BB or something.
I'm really hard pressed to believe Oda would have Shanks die in front of Luffy in their first reunion… especially after he already did the arm sacrifice thing. Granted, Oda loves the heart-string tugging. So, their SECOND reunion can be tragic as all get out. But again, you don't promise something for 25-30 years and then not deliver on it. Somewhere that crosses the line between plot twist, and just pissing on your audience.
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Yes, there will high likely be a moment of celebration where Luffy thinks that his dream came true. However, we have to differentiate the meaning of being Pirate King between Luffy and the others. Whereas for a lot if not the most people the first one who arrives at Raftel and claims the One Piece will be Pirate King, for Luffy it is the person with the most freedom. As soon as there are at Raftel something will happen that'll start the final war. And when this happens, Luffy will not only realize that his dream isn't fulfilled anymore, but also that in fact it wasn't fulfilled at all at any time before.
Luffy might have been the first who reached Raftel, but at no point he was the most free person of the world. In Luffy's perception claiming the One Piece means shit, if you are not also the most free person. That is his dream which will only fulfil in the moment when he delivers the final blow in the final battle.
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Shanks doesn't necessarily need to die. Even though he doesn't hold as much weight as Shanks, Rayleigh was Luffy's mentor for two years. And he's probably spent more time with him than Shanks.
The way he was speaking after the crew embarked for Fishman Island felt like foreshadowing to his own demise in the final war.
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Nope. Oda is not going to taint the Luffy/Shanks reunion that way. Shanks didn't count them meeting at the war because Luffy was in bad shape, and it would go the same the other way around.
They meet, get to have a party at long last, maybe a bit of sparring. Then Luffy goes off to head to Raftel, and Shanks (not telling him) goes off to fight BB or something.I'm really hard pressed to believe Oda would have Shanks die in front of Luffy in their first reunion… especially after he already did the arm sacrifice thing. Granted, Oda loves the heart-string tugging. So, their SECOND reunion can be tragic as all get out. But again, you don't promise something for 25-30 years and then not deliver on it. Somewhere that crosses the line between plot twist, and just pissing on your audience.
This can't happen this way… Having a party before heading to Raftel ? I seriously can't see that happening. If Oda follows the classic nekketsu pattern, Shanks, the idol figure, will die or be seriously wounded before their "reunion", to make things tragic. It wouldn't ruin the "promise" and it wouldn't be a plot twist at all or anything. I could even see Luffy leaving Shanks his hat before going after Black Beard.
(By the way, if things go this way, and if Black Beard fights (kills?) Dragon, it would make him the ultimate villain).And why would there be "two" reunions ? Wouldn't the second one ruin the first ? And how would Shanks fight Black Beard anyway (without Luffy knowing it) ?
No honestly, no matter how I look at your "prediction" (lets say), I just can't see it happening. Maybe you can, but not me.
(I'll be back in a couple of hours so sorry for the futur late response.
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Shanks doesn't necessarily need to die. Even though he doesn't hold as much weight as Shanks, Rayleigh was Luffy's mentor for two years. And he's probably spent more time with him than Shanks.
The way he was speaking after the crew embarked for Fishman Island felt like foreshadowing to his own demise in the final war.
Why can't it be both? Star Wars had Obi-Wan and Yoda die, and they're roughly analogous to Shanks and Rayleigh.
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It doesnt have to be immediately before Raftel. But before things get bad. After beating one of the emporers maybe, or when the crew is complete. Luffy's got a 500 million bounty now, that probably qualifies.
Oda already did the "was just too weak and late to help and has to watch the important person die with a speech" thing with Ace. (And practically everyone's childhood mentor)
Yes, Shanks will die to Blackbeard because that's been foreshadowed, and yes, Luffy will get to keep the hat since it suits him better, but I can't see Oda playing that same exact card four times. (With Shank's arm, then Sabo, then Ace, and then Shanks again) It wont be formative or a shaping experience, it would be purely a "Go kick Blackbeard's ass" thing… which Luffy will already be doing anyway, and already has set up with Akainu. "I need to fight you for revenge!" isn't something that needs to be tossed onto another villain... nor does Luffy becoming pirate king need to be something he sadly cries about afterward. It can be, and Oda might do that, but, it doesn't need to be.
Another way of doing it would be for Luffy to give back the hat, then have Shanks fall, and then Luffy gets the hat from Blackbeard. Or something. Luffy will need to deal with BB anyway and deal with the true history and the government corruption anyway. Wouldn't it be more affecting to Luffy, and the readers, to learn that Shanks had been killed during the climax as a BB reveal? Rather than as just a sad lead up thing to it?
But Oda is NOT going to douse that long awaited reunion in tragedy. Afterwards, sure. Luffy can be sad about Shanks after having a positive reunion. But he absolutely has to give us the positive good reunion first. You can't take an event that's been promised THAT long and then taint it... otherwise Oda would have done it after the war and had Shanks take Luffy to safety instead of Rayleigh.
Shanks is too big and too important for his death to be purely a "motivate Luffy" thing, especially when Luffy will be drawn into leading the big war anyway. It's got to be as the last Emporer to fall as the world goes into complete chaos. With Kaidou and Big Mom dealt with, and BB defeating the last and becoming the only major power, finding an ancient weapon, etc.... while the world government goes full out. Ace dying was for Luffy. Whitebeard dying was for the world. Shank's fall needs to be more than just a tragic mentor death... we've already had those.
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Why can't it be both? Star Wars had Obi-Wan and Yoda die, and they're roughly analogous to Shanks and Rayleigh.
It could end up being the both of them ,but unlike Star Wars, I don't see Shanks dying before Rayleigh.
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I don't see the overall necessity for Rayleigh to die and, considering Oda not killing of characters unless its really necessary for the plot, I do not see Rayleigh dying.
Forum user Bartholemew Bear passed away in a very moving and touching way. I, ARTEMlS, therefore carry on the Will of DArth for good unto its final fulfilment.
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Why can't it be both? Star Wars had Obi-Wan and Yoda die, and they're roughly analogous to Shanks and Rayleigh.
Because in Star Wars, them dying left Luke as the very last Jedi, the last hope. There's no such correlation here. If Rayleigh and Shanks both go that doesn't make Luffy the last pirate, or even the last D… it just makes him a death magnet.
(Also, in Yoda's case it was no tragedy, just purely old age.)
@Bartholemew:
I don't see the overall necessity for Rayleigh to die and, considering Oda not killing of characters unless its really necessary for the plot, I do not see Rayleigh dying.
Given that Rayleigh is retired and not an active figure in the world generally, no, his death wouldn't serve the story at all. Shanks, as the last emporer to fall, would. (I also suspect that Luffy will defeat Kaidou… but BB will then kill him and take whatever fruit he has that makes him so strong. Especially if its a zoan and fill out the trifecta)
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Because in Star Wars, them dying left Luke as the very last Jedi, the last hope. There's no such correlation here. If Rayleigh and Shanks both go that doesn't make Luffy the last pirate, or even the last D… it just makes him a death magnet.
(Also, in Yoda's case it was no tragedy, just purely old age.)
Given that Rayleigh is retired and not an active figure in the world generally, no, his death wouldn't serve the story at all. Shanks, as the last emporer to fall, would. (I also suspect that Luffy will defeat Kaidou… but BB will then kill him and take whatever fruit he has that makes him so strong. Especially if its a zoan and fill out the trifecta)
Marco s DF is more likely for BB. Not only does it fit the old crew DFs that he steals from them, but Marco Zoan also looks like the thing BB lacks. A df based on defense.
Aldo the deals between BB and his old crew are likely not over, I don t see Marco and the rest just forget about all the things BB did to their crew and just leave it at that.The WB pirate s fall it still going, Weeble took down their allies too, now only the main crew is left.
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From a story standpoint, Rayleigh doesn't need to die, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen. I have a strong feeling that most, if not all, of the notable figures from Roger's era will die before the end of the manga.
Oda killing off that many characters is very unlikely, but he's never shied away from the ravages of aging so I can't really shake that feeling of it being a possibility. -
While I can understand Shanks fighting Blackbeard and losing(thanks to his comment at the end of MF), I do not expect him to die.
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While I can understand Shanks fighting Blackbeard and losing(thanks to his comment at the end of MF), I do not expect him to die.
We have heard a wide variety of pirates refer to the "new era". What exactly people think the new era will be like is pretty unique to the individual and not constant, however, one thing is constant: They all believe change is coming. They all believe the established status quo will change.
Oda also has introduced the eleven supernova's or rookies. Its been stated that people believe one of these Rookies is likely to lead the new era(Luffy), and I think it's highly forshadowed that going into the future this group of rookies will end up replacing the pirates of old. This would include shanks. In fact, we know of a rookie already who plans to target shanks. I don't think Oda would reveal that unless shanks is actually going to be defeated by the Kid alliance. This would then set up a bro down for supremacy of the new era between Kidd and Luffy, which is a vastly overlooked end-game related battle that needs to take place.
So for me, Shanks has to die. Therefore Oda will end him.
"If I get reincarnated…. I wanna become a clam."
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@Joy_Boy's_Will:
We have heard a wide variety of pirates refer to the "new era". What exactly people think the new era will be like is pretty unique to the individual and not constant, however, one thing is constant: They all believe change is coming. They all believe the established status quo will change.
Sure
Oda also has introduced the eleven supernova's or rookies. Its been stated that people believe one of these Rookies is likely to lead the new era(Luffy), and I think it's highly forshadowed that going into the future this group of rookies will end up replacing the pirates of old. This would include shanks. In fact, we know of a rookie already who plans to target shanks. I don't think Oda would reveal that unless shanks is actually going to be defeated by the Kid alliance. This would then set up a bro down for supremacy of the new era between Kidd and Luffy, which is a vastly overlooked end-game related battle that needs to take place.
Shanks can only lose to 3 persons: Luffy, Blackbeard Akainu. The last one would already be surprising, anyone else is impossible(that includes Kid).
So for me, Shanks has to die. Therefore Oda will end him.
Meh. Oda sucks at killing people and it is not necessary to kill shanks to change era(or else all yonko would die). Luffy becoming Pirate King with all yonkou defeated is all they need for the world to know the power have shifted.
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Shanks can only lose to 3 persons: Luffy, Blackbeard Akainu. The last one would already be surprising, anyone else is impossible(that includes Kid).
Kidd is going to play a much larger role in the story than I think you believe at the moment. While Blackbeard may be the final villain of one piece, Kidd occupies the role of "Evil Luffy". Which is to say, I think that Kidd is going to be Luffy's rival throughout the new era, not Blackbeard. This would be similarish to Rodger and whitebeard's rivalry. We haven't even seen Kidd's abilities post-time skip yet, so how can you be sure he hasn't grown to surpass Shanks?
Also, how do you think Oda would play out the Kidd alliance vs. Shanks plot arc? For me, introducing this plot only to have Shanks beat the Kidd alliance has no point. There would be no significance for this, no change. This is similar to when it was revealed Ace was going after Blackbeard. Oda would never have let Ace win that fight, because him winning keeps the status quo unchanged. Blackbeard winning, however, has obvious value to the story given that Ace was Luffy's brother and we eventually learned that Ace was the son of Gold Rodger. The Kidd Alliance vs. Shanks arc we be much the same, Oda can not let Shanks win.
Now will he die? I mean.. he might not I suppose. But what would happen after Luffy saves the world? If Luffy is going to be the pirate king, he must establish himself as the strongest pirate. Do you think he could fight seriously vs. Shanks, his idol? Did you ever think Luffy would fight Ace on his journey to the one piece? No. The pirate king is the strongest of all the pirates, without having defeated Shanks or Ace(if they are alive) Luffy could never be the pirate king. This is why Ace had to die and Shanks needs to die. They hinder Luffy's ability to achieve his dreams.
"If I get reincarnated…. I wanna become a clam."
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Luffy doesn't need to personally beat down every single pirate in the world to prove his dominance. He just needs their respect.
So no, he'd never get into a serious fight with Shanks or Ace, nor would he need to. They'd accept him as their better once he's accomplished the good stuff.
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Luffy doesn't need to personally beat down every single pirate in the world to prove his dominance. He just needs their respect.
So no, he'd never get into a serious fight with Shanks or Ace, nor would he need to. They'd accept him as their better once he's accomplished the good stuff.
I disagree, and agree. The Pirate King doesn't have to personally defeat every pirate that has/ is or will ever exist, however, the world has to view him as - unquestionably - the strongest pirate for him to earn that distinction. The concept of the pirate king is actually pretty interesting. It's a title bestowed on the truly worthy. You can't steal the crown, and the crown doesn't need to have an owner. But if you have earned it, you have the ability to inspire a new generation of pirates. So, what if Shanks and/or Ace were still alive in the final battle, what is the world to think of the winner? Who is the strongest pirate? Luffy - an upstart - rookie, or Shanks the established yonkou of the new world? If they survived and Luffy never defeated them, there would be doubt as to who is the strongest pirate. Perception matters in becoming the pirate king, and there can be no question who is the strongest pirate for there to be a pirate king.
So, with that being said, Luffy doesn't have to defeat everyone.. just those who are seen as being of similar strength(or stronger). It's like a tournament. You fight specific enemies, and sometimes don't have to battle a few significant ones because they were defeated by someone else. But by the end of the tournament there can be only one undefeated participant. This in essence is the pirate king, and both shanks and Ace were in the tournament. If someone else doesn't defeat them, Luffy would have been forced to.
That goes back to my previous statement that Luffy would never go all out against Shanks or Ace. Luffy is not the most talented, or the strongest physically and he doesn't have an overpowered devil fruit. Luffy's gift that sets him apart from everyone he has faced so far is his indomitable spirit, unbreakable will and inability to accept defeat. These are facets of his immense will power. This is not an ability he can choose to activate though, it's something that manifests when Luffy believes the outcome of the battle is important. Remember, Ace and Sabo repeated demonstrated that they were stronger than Luffy as children(please don't argue about Luffy's age or his recent training making a difference). Yet, Ace is dead and Luffy is not. This is because Luffy's will is/was greater than Ace's. He's not stronger than Ace and never would have been imo, but if Ace was intent on killing Luffy, Luffy would prevail. This is why Luffy is going to be the pirate king.
Luffy does not have to defeat Sabo because Sabo is not a pirate. So Sabo is in the clear.
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Now, I see I've left a hole in my reasoning so i'll clear that up. It could be assumed based on my tournament analogy that Shanks/ Ace could have simply been defeated(not killed) and all Luffy would need to do is defeat whoever defeated them to be crowned the best. I do not think this is true so i'll clarify.
As I said perception matters. In the end- game, I believe Luffy would need to be identified - again unquestionably - as the leader of the pirate group that claims victory in the end. If Ace or Shanks were present, he wouldn't be the unquestionable leader. They would all be co-leaders of the winning side, and this is how the world will interpret it. To garner the influence required to be the pirate king, I believe Luffy would need to be the sole leader of the final battle, and thus start the new Era as it's king. Little kids can't dream of becoming great pirates like Ace/ Shanks/ Luffy, they have got to - unquestionably - think of Luffy exclusively above the rest.
With this in mind, I also believe that Law is going to die in the end. Unless Law admits to be some sort of subordinate to Luffy(which I dont see happening).
The other reason they have got to die is that as a plot point, it is extremely moving. It adds the extra dynamic to the story to give us -as readers- a better appreciation for the fight itself and it's significance to Luffy. Luffy's unlimited willpower is proportional to his desire to succeed. Anything that increases this desire, increases the magnitude of the defining traits that will make Luffy the pirate king. Situations like this may be required to overcome a potentially "unbeatable" enemy. Or as in the case of Ace, it may give Luffy the extra amount of will to make his prescence felt in a battle in which he had no business being of any particular significance.
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@Joy_Boy's_Will:
Kidd is going to play a much larger role in the story than I think you believe at the moment. While Blackbeard may be the final villain of one piece, Kidd occupies the role of "Evil Luffy". Which is to say, I think that Kidd is going to be Luffy's rival throughout the new era, not Blackbeard. This would be similarish to Rodger and whitebeard's rivalry. We haven't even seen Kidd's abilities post-time skip yet, so how can you be sure he hasn't grown to surpass Shanks?
It's not about power level. Neither am I talking on what will happen on the epilogue. Sure Blackbeard isn't going to vogue once the story is done and maybe Oda will throw that bone to Kidd. But the deafeat of Luffy's mentor is not going to happen by the end of secondary character Kidd. Not when Law can't even defeat the one he dedicated his life to beat AKA Doflamingo. He is important enough to beat a secondary yonkou if Oda is on a good mood. Not one the most important figure for Luffy and certainly not when Blackbeard said it's not time to face them Yet.
Also, how do you think Oda would play out the Kidd alliance vs. Shanks plot arc? For me, introducing this plot only to have Shanks beat the Kidd alliance has no point. There would be no significance for this, no change. This is similar to when it was revealed Ace was going after Blackbeard. Oda would never have let Ace win that fight, because him winning keeps the status quo unchanged. Blackbeard winning, however, has obvious value to the story given that Ace was Luffy's brother and we eventually learned that Ace was the son of Gold Rodger. The Kidd Alliance vs. Shanks arc we be much the same, Oda can not let Shanks win.
Either hype Shanks or give Blackbeard the opportunity he needs to beat Shanks crew without too much casualties.
Now will he die? I mean.. he might not I suppose. But what would happen after Luffy saves the world? If Luffy is going to be the pirate king, he must establish himself as the strongest pirate.
1/Roger had a rival. The title comes from sailing the grandline.
2/He does not need to beat up Shanks to be established as the strongest. He can simply beat Blackbeard to do so.Do you think he could fight seriously vs. Shanks, his idol?
He can fight him to show him how strong he became but he doesn't have to fight Shanks to become pirate king. If he does, yes he will fight him seriously to not disapoint the guy who sacrificed his arm from him. He did punch Garp when he had to.
Did you ever think Luffy would fight Ace on his journey to the one piece? No.
There's no point asking if you already decided the answer. But again, if he had to, yes he would. The two brothers were always clear that they would not ressent each other if they faced as pirate and they fought plenty. It's not like he would have kill Ace.
The pirate king is the strongest of all the pirates, without having defeated Shanks or Ace(if they are alive) Luffy could never be the pirate king. This is why Ace had to die and Shanks needs to die. They hinder Luffy's ability to achieve his dreams.
He can simply show greater strength than both or fight someone stronger than both. But more importantly, Shanks did not ask him to beat down but to become a great pirate.
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1/Ace would be under Marco or Whithebeard so he wouldn't be compared to Luffy
2/Beating the strongest man, which Shanks will not be, will be enough to establish Luffy as the strongest.
3/Pirate king is about sailing the whole grandline not being the strongest. Roger shared the crown in that category. -
It's not about power level. Neither am I talking on what will happen on the epilogue. Sure Blackbeard isn't going to vogue once the story is done and maybe Oda will throw that bone to Kidd. But the deafeat of Luffy's mentor is not going to happen by the end of secondary character Kidd. Not when Law can't even defeat the one he dedicated his life to beat AKA Doflamingo. He is important enough to beat a secondary yonkou if Oda is on a good mood. Not one the most important figure for Luffy and certainly not when Blackbeard said it's not time to face them Yet.
Either hype Shanks or give Blackbeard the opportunity he needs to beat Shanks crew without too much casualties.
Your point about BB implying he would eventually need to face off against Shanks is solid. I still think Luffy has to defeat Kidd though, otherwise Kidd would have been built up for no reason. If Shanks defeats him Luffy wouldn't need to, and that would be counter to how Oda has consistently developed the plot. No major villain has ever been taken care of without the help of the straw hats.'
Maybe this would mean Luffy and Shanks will defeat the Kidd aliance together before Shanks is ultimately defeated by BB. I like the sound of this, it's an acceptable option imo. I still think Kidd is much more important than you give him credit. His importance is equal to that of Kaido/ Big mom imo.
1/Roger had a rival. The title comes from sailing the grandline.
2/He does not need to beat up Shanks to be established as the strongest. He can simply beat Blackbeard to do so.The history between Whitebeard and Gold Rodger is not completely fleshed out, but I don't think reaching raftel alone would make someone the pirate king. The destinction of "strongest pirate alive" is also important. Clearly the world believed Rodger was stronger than Whitebeard, and that Whitebeard was close, but not quite as powerful. Read my last post for why Shanks must be killed.
He can fight him to show him how strong he became but he doesn't have to fight Shanks to become pirate king. If he does, yes he will fight him seriously to not disapoint the guy who sacrificed his arm from him. He did punch Garp when he had to.
There's no point asking if you already decided the answer. But again, if he had to, yes he would. The two brothers were always clear that they would not ressent each other if they faced as pirate and they fought plenty. It's not like he would have kill Ace.
Luffy fought seriously against Garp in order to save ace, not defeat Garp. This is an important distinction. Given no clear motive to defeat someone in battle, Luffy would not give his all and his all would be what it took to defeat Shanks. Same with Ace. Oda has already told us that Luffy would never manage to beat Ace, as he never could as a child. I don't think any amount of training would help either. Luffy is only strong when he needs to be. Thus a "casual" spar would not show Luffy at his strongest. In all of one piece, Luffy is consistently pretty much defeated, if it weren't for his will to carry on the fight. This is heightened when his nakama's lives are on the line. Without this extra motivation Luffy would never fight at full strength because he is too kind hearted and gentle.
He can simply show greater strength than both or fight someone stronger than both. But more importantly, Shanks did not ask him to beat down but to become a great pirate.
Shanks was banking on Luffy being the the future and the leader of a new era. Shanks didn't necessarily want Luffy to eventually defeat him(as in a rival), he wanted to motivate Luffy to do great things so he could eventually inspire change in the world and a new generation of pirates. While the two are related, being a great pirate is foremost important. But speculation as to his meaning is just speculation. You may interpret it as you like.
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What if Zoro barely beats Mihawk first then Shiliew dominates Mihawk sometime shortly afterwards(he will probably cheat cuz BB pirate theme)? Then Zoro vs Shiliew would make more sense if endgame for best swordsman title.
This makes me wonder what the next nakama's dream will be. It can't be accomplished at least until Raftel like the others. Any ideas?
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What are we talking about?
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So no, he'd never get into a serious fight with Shanks or Ace, nor would he need to. They'd accept him as their better once he's accomplished the good stuff.
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– I've edited the pictures because the first translation wasn't correct. In MP's version, Luffy states that he wants to go after Shanks first, whereas this translation indicates (implicitly) that he would like to beat him "last" (or at least not first). --
(These two pictures resume it well ; as Joy-boy's-will said, Luffy needs to defeat the four emperors or the "dominant" pirates in order to affirm himself as the undeniable Pirate King).
And as for yesterday's debate ; I'll agree with you. Not really sure things are going to go "exactly" as you say, but the main idea is, in my point of view, correct.
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! [qimg]http://i.imgur.com/ikzUzJp.png[/qimg]
[qimg]http://i.gyazo.com/885e6ebf94313ceb40f358f445da7c58.png[/qimg](These two pictures resume it well ; as Joy-boy's-will said, Luffy needs to defeat the four emperors or the "dominant" pirates in order to affirm himself as the undeniable Pirate King).
And as for yesterday's debate ; I'll agree with you. Not really sure things are going to go "exactly" as you say, but the main idea is, in my point of view, correct.
Beating all four of them is not the same thing as personally punching Shank's face in until he's black and blue. They don't need to have a serious to the death fight between each other to show off. A sparring match will do for those two.
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Beating all four of them is not the same thing as personally punching Shank's face in until he's black and blue. They don't need to have a serious to the death fight between each other to show off. A sparring match will do for those two.
Luffy plans to take down Shanks, so he will beat him. Of course not to death (Luffy never killed/kills/will kill anybody), but at least until Shanks gets knocked out, exactly like Luffy's other opponents.
Why wouldn't they fight seriously ? They're pirates, and there can only be one pirate king. And Shanks wouldn't be the type of guy to just play around. By the way, it would be a humiliation for both of the warriors if they didn't fight at maximum strength.
Let's take Zoro's case. He would fight Mihawk in a real duel, because he has to do it to accomplish his dream. Same thing for Straw hat.
There won't be no half-measure ; if Luffy and Shanks fight, they'll fight for real.
