Because every other string is destroyed without much effort?
And what, Fujitora isn't that strong yet either?
But we did see that a flaming meteor shower couldn't do a thing to it.
And before you say Fuji wasn't trying, remember that this was perhaps the most complex attack Fuji pulled with his ability. Stuff like sideways gravity and sinkholes should easy to pull out in comparison.
Because every other string is destroyed without much effort?
And what, Fujitora isn't that strong yet either?
When did someone destroy one of Doffy's strings (except Luffy)? Piercing the clone is not destroying strings, it's just separating a bunch of strings woven together, which is what Abdullah and Jeet did.
I can't agree with King Cannon here. I think Fujitora could have destroyed the cage with his powers. He just chose to do as little as possible. Again, if that makes sense or not is up to each one. Zoro, on the other hand, had no excuse other than not being strong enough to cut the strings. If he was strong enough, people would have complained that the cage wasn't actually that strong and Zoro is hoarding too much badassery…
Did you forget the whole thing with Luffy being out for 10 minutes?
What of it? Story impact of said ten minutes was null.
Also, Luffy was very close to defeating Doula some chapters ago, but time interfered.
Same as above. All that weakness amounts to is stopping the story at given status quo for a chapter or two, after we go back to business as usual.
I will buy it being meaningfull after I see someone capitalize on it in meaningful way, which I expect to be never, because One Piece is not that kind of story.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But we did see that a flaming meteor shower couldn't do a thing to it.
And before you say Fuji wasn't trying, remember that this was perhaps the most complex attack Fuji pulled with his ability. Stuff like sideways gravity and sinkholes should easy to pull out in comparison.
Shrugs I don't see it as Fuji trying, sorry. Just from story perspective, it is obvious that Oda would reveal one of the end games attacks of a new character as their opening move.
Yes. It is indeed hard for me to fanthom that the broken arsenal of abilities that Doflamingo possesses can be overcomed with pure strength alone.
But that is what Oda showed us .
Take chapter 785 don block one of luffy gear 4 attacks with a string shield .
In that same chapter he try it again and luffy overpower it and that is how he got hit with the leo bazooka .
In this chapter luffy was able to get out of Parasite with physical power .
Luffy also destroy don defense and offense haki base attack with one move .
Mind you the attack it self did not hit the island but the force it hit don with was enough split part of the island which show how crazy it was .
Seem you don't like that it happen that way but luffy is a physical fighter and oda took him to the next level.
Seeing gear 4 and that attack shows me he ready to fight the yonko not going to be easy but he ready.
Oh, and I forgot one:
Usopp is a BOSS.
My view is informed heavily by Dungeons and Dragons. In DnD, Rogues are typically defined by certain class features, as well as skills: Rogues tend to sneak attack, tinker, figure out and use magical devices they have no real right to figure out and use, hide, avoid direct fights, lie, persuade, deceive, etc. Basically, they're defined by their indirect (but effective) fighting style and, to varying degrees, their intellect, charisma, cleverness, physical dexterity, etc. Often (but not always) they are also defined by "luck," all though arguably it is not luck if you are prepared for a great number of potentialities by mastering so many different skills.
Usopp kind of has it all. I LOVE that aspect of Usopp that can get people to fight for him. He displays, time and time again really, an oppurtunistic charisma - he rarely goes out of his way to persuade people to do what he wants, but if the conditions are right he uses those conditions and his abilities to lie, persuade, convince to have other people fight his battles for him (and often to GREAT effect).
This arc was REALLY good for Usopp. He lost the only fight he directly engaged in (as a rogue probably should), he ended up taking Sugar down anyway via luck, he made an incredibly skillful (nearly impossible) and game-changing attack from a distance by utilizing a specific item he had created (his scary face bullet, forget the name) rather than through direct assault, he convinced people he was a god and to do his bidding the moment they were willing to run with that (part of it was luck, which again is in character, but then he rolled with it which other characters would not have done).
Usopp just rules this arc. We shouldn't expect him to get awesome 1v1 fights that show how cool he is - that is not who Usopp is or should be.
And so much of the stuff this arc has been a central part of his character since the beginning. Some of the strawhats, imo, feel kind of empty right now, but Usopp still feels like Usopp - just a much improved Usopp.
Okay now I'm done irrelevant fan-boying.
Shrugs I don't see it as Fuji trying, sorry. Just from story perspective, it is obvious that Oda would reveal one of the end games attacks of a new character as their opening move.
Honestly, it kinda surprises me that people don't think a meteor shower attack is impressive, especially considering that the way it is made is through an insane, especific usage of gravity.
And a single one was enough to scare Warlords Law and Doula Mongo.
And I'm pretty sure his opening move was the sinkhole.
Has Admiral hype gone too far?
When did someone destroy one of Doffy's strings (except Luffy)? Piercing the clone is not destroying strings, it's just separating a bunch of strings woven together, which is what Abdullah and Jeet did.
Kyros cut the head of the clone off.
Others didn't exactly had the opportunity to encounter strings that stayed around long enough to be destroyed.
I can't agree with King Cannon here. I think Fujitora could have destroyed the cage with his powers. He just chose to do as little as possible. Again, if that makes sense or not is up to each one. Zoro, on the other hand, had no excuse other than not being strong enough to cut the strings. If he was strong enough, people would have complained that the cage wasn't actually that strong and Zoro is hoarding too much badassery…
I'm not discussin Fujitora until his plan is properly explained.
And to Zoro cutting the birdcage, I'd say that there is no good solution to that problem.
Gotta love how we had a small flashback with Rayleigh lecturing Luffy about the dangers of using gear 4, and he should try to find some other solution. Yet after the flashback Luffy goes into gear 4 again :D
Kyros cut the head of the clone off.
Others didn't exactly had the opportunity to encounter strings that stayed around long enough to be destroyed.
I'm not discussin Fujitora until his plan is properly explained.
And to Zoro cutting the birdcage, I'd say that there is no good solution to that problem.
I talked about how the clone is just and aglomeration of strings and its not exactly a good example. And it makes sense that Doffy can manipulate the quality of the strings according to circumstances. But I guess that is not enough to explain it. I do agree that the cage was a kind of convoluted plot move. I think we've reached a good middle point and we're not going to agree much more than this, so let's end this discussion. 
Honestly, it kinda surprises me that people don't think a meteor shower attack is impressive, especially considering that the way it is made is through an insane, especific usage of gravity.
It would be more impressive if it leave a scratch on anybody.
As it stands, it suffers from Dressrosa disease: Cool looking, but ultimately pointless and ineffectual.
And a single one was enough to scare Warlords Law and Doula Mongo.
Can't tell why, both were arongant as all hell in the face of much worse situations.
Especially since it did nothing.
And I'm pretty sure his opening move was the sinkhole.
I don't consider that a move really. More like equivalent of Kizaru kicking somebody.
Has Admiral hype gone too far?
Oda killed it so succesfuly that I don't think it will ever resurface again, do not worry.
Kyros cut the head of the clone off.
He can make thicker, stronger strings by combining them, like with Overheat and his Awakening string tentacles.
Same logic of a rope.
He can make thicker, stronger strings by combining them, like with Overheat and his Awakening string tentacles.
Same logic of a rope.
Uh-huh. And how does the fact that we did in fact saw strings that composed birdcage and they were shown to be significantly thinner than both of your given examples fit into that reasoning?
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So… like overheat? Oh wait, overheat scratched Luffy :ninja:
More like anything Pica ever did, for example.
Oh I liked Pica. He was really impressive. Seriously. That guy managed to reshape the island and become way larger than Oars. But then he just attacked a few injured people, didn't even manage to kill them because One Piece and when he tried to actually kill people Zoro beat him. But overall he was impressive. Just not at fighting 1v1. Not at all fighting 1v1. If you wanna talk about ineffective guys, talk about Diamante. Fucking idiot. Great troll, lackluster fighter. And he was the leader of the fighting squad! Dellinger, Lao G and Señor Pink looked much better than him.
Uh-huh. And how does the fact that we did in fact saw strings that composed birdcage and they were shown to be significantly thinner than both of your given examples fit into that reasoning?
Birdcage strings were defined as very hard in Law's flashback, so they're not the the same as Doula's usual flexible strings.
Spider Web is strong enough to block Elephant Gun for example. Doubt Kyros' beheading slash is stronger than that.
You are correct, but my original point still stands: It completely blocks it, which I find to be a poorly explained plot device that doesn't make sense.
Though I quite agree that my original wording was poor. Apologies.
I found the explanation here to be quite reasonable:
http://onepiecepodcast.com/2015/04/29/chao-time-string-theory-part-1/
Whelp, they exist https://otakurepublic.com/product/figure_prize_figure_dx_figure_(banpresto)/one_piece/product_page_235871.html
and I'm happy to be the owner of the Robin figurine
You are a filthy liar but…I like it.
Birdcage strings were defined as very hard in Law's flashback, so they're not the the same as Doula's usual flexible strings.
Spider Web is strong enough to block Elephant Gun for example. Doubt Kyros' beheading slash is stronger than that.
And yet King Kong Gun broke it.
I fail to find any reason why the new improved Zoro finisher could not broke through birdcage.
What is more important, Zoro does not even try it.
And Birdcage must be flexible to a degree, it would not manage to constrict itself otherwise.
"Luffy broke parasito when Jozu couldn't, therefore Luffy > Jozu"
I think Luffy being stronger than a high commander of a yonkou (or at least capable of fighting with them on equal grounds) should now be a given.
Seeing Doffy play with Jozu and Luffy taking out this guy gave us finally the confirmation after the TS that Luffy has stepped up his game immensly.
That was obviously necessary and knowing that his next targets are yonkou, there is no other way than him reaching that level behind a yonkou or an admiral, but at least on equal grounds with high yonkou commanders, or else how should it ever be possible to actually defeat a yonkou for Luffy.
Jozu might be a big name, but Luffy is the one that comes to dethrone the yonkous, so it´s not that farfetched to say that after the TShe overcome(or at least is equal) to such a powerhouse.
Afterall Ace was considered the same level as Jozu and Luffy should have reached that now after TS at least.
Beating Doffy was the stepping stone in my eyes to overcome this level and now the next big step is to tackle the high-tier level of yonkous and admirals, which still may only defeatable for him with a boost, some luck and with the help of others. (like he got even against Doffy or else his Gear4 drawback would have cost him his life)
Unrevealed: Loki/Rocks/the man marked by flames/Im-san
Island: Elbaf/Raftel/GodValley
Unresolved: Weevil´s plan/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
DFWind/Metal/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop
And yet King Kong Gun broke it.
I fail to find any reason why the new improved Zoro finisher could not broke through birdcage.
What is more important, Zoro does not even try it.
And Birdcage must be flexible to a degree, it would not manage to constrict itself otherwise.
Different moves have different strengths.
Doula probably designed the cage to be super tough because… that's its point. He most likely perfected it into an invincible trap and he had more than 10 years to do that.
Just like how Magellan's strongest poison is only used in a particular move instead of any move.
It shouldn't really be hard to swallow.
@Don:
I think Luffy being stronger than a high commander of a yonkou (or at least capable of fighting with them on equal grounds) should now be a given.
Seeing Doffy play with Jozu and Luffy taking out this guy gave us finally the confirmation after the TS that Luffy has stepped up his game immensly.
That was obviously necessary and knowing that his next targets are yonkou, there is no other way than him reaching that level behind a yonkou or an admiral, but at least on equal grounds with high yonkou commanders, or else how should it ever be possible to actually defeat a yonkou for Luffy.Jozu might be a big name, but Luffy is the one that comes to dethrone the yonkous, so it´s not that farfetched to say that after the TShe overcome(or at least is equal) to such a powerhouse.
Afterall Ace was considered the same level as Jozu and Luffy should have reached that now after TS at least.
Beating Doffy was the stepping stone in my eyes to overcome this level and now the next big step is to tackle the high-tier level of yonkous and admirals, which still may only defeatable for him with a boost, some luck and with the help of others. (like he got even against Doffy or else his Gear4 drawback would have cost him his life)
Yep this chapter and gear 4 show me luffy ready to take on the big guys .
It not going to be easy but he is there, i can only imagine how crazy something like leo bazooka would be if he did it that way .
I'm not convinced about the parasite thing. If strength was the way the counter it all along, we would at least see characters try. Luffy can't be much stronger then Jozu, the guy was close to what top guys out there did. Maybe parasite is not the same thing as 'immobilize thing'.
"Luffy couldn't 1v1 Doffy"
Who cares? He's a pirate, not a samurai. He isn't honor bound. He has a goal - the one piece - and whatever needs to happen to get him there is what he's gonna do. Yes, he usually fights his own fights, but I think that is a tactic to keep his friends safe. But, as we saw with Oz, this isn't some principle or guideline for him - if he needs others to help him fight, so be it. It isn't always about overcoming someone else, but more about survival, protecting his friends, and moving towards his goal. We as fans wanna see him 1v1, but it isn't something he really needs to do.
Couldn´t agree more and it was already stated during his fight with Arlong.
Actually the whole concept of Luffy being able to reach his dream is based on the fact that he is the guy other people are willing to follow and to help.
Of course we fans (and the typical shonen-format) dictate in a certain way that Luffy will always face the main villain and defeat him, but as seen especially with Magellan it´s not always clear that he has to defeat his enemies in a specific way.
I wasn´t a big fan of Luffy not actually defeating Magellan during that time, but after thinking about it, he defeated him in breaking out of ID with many others, which was the only goal Magellan had to prefent.
So Luffy may not have defeated him physical, but mentally in making him fail his one goal.
Bringing their plans to fall, somehow being able to survive/keep on with their journey and especially protecting his friends are the main goals which Luffy is aiming for, not just being stronger in a 1vs1 fight.
That he gets help from others and doesn´t only rely on his strenght, makes him a way more human and likeable character.
What´s the point of showing again and again how important his nakama are, how much weight friendship has etc. when it never is the deciding factor to achieve their goals.
Luffy would have lost many times or wouldn´t even been able to face the bad guys without some help.
Usopp speech against Lucci, Gatz giving him time, Fukaboshi giving him a ride, Jinbei saving him from Akainu etc.
Not without a reason that attitude of gathering people around him who are willing to fight for him will be the most important factor in the final war to change the world..non the less Luffy has to overcome in certain ways the main villian, but ALWAYS with the help of others.
He´s the finisher of all this, we as readers want to see but the OP world isn´t a place were everything is steril and you´re always able to fight just under the right equal circumstances.
Actually the DFs already prevent that. (like in Pokemon, fire might loose to water, but water might loose to grass(lol) which than can be defeated by the previous loser fire)
@uniaka:
I'm not convinced about the parasite thing. If strength was the way the counter it all along, we would at least see characters try. Luffy can't be much stronger then Jozu, the guy was close to what top guys out there did. Maybe parasite is not the same thing as 'immobilize thing'.
Well Jozu was busy listening to croc and don conversation and the next sec he up in the air lol.
To me it never look like he was trying to escape or that bother by it for the few secs he was in .
Or maybe Gear 4th > Jozu.
Is it so hard to imagine ?
Different moves have different strengths.
Great. Why the guy in losing position is deliberately making his own moves weaker?
Doula probably designed the cage to be super tough because… that's its point. He most likely perfected it into an invincible trap and he had more than 10 years to do that.
Yet he did not do so with the moves used in his one on one fights, when he knows WG would do a lot to see him dead and his alliance with Yonkou could very well end very drasticaly?
Just like how Magellan's strongest poison is only used in a particular move instead of any move.
No, that one actually made sense. Mostly because using poison that is capable of desolving walls while fighting in an underwater prison seems like bad idea.
Especially when you cannot swim.
It shouldn't really be hard to swallow.
If it was the only thing with the arc? Sure.
But it isn't. And when it negatively impacts my enjoyment of things on top of everything else, it becomes quite hard to swallow.
Or maybe it was the expansion of Luffy into Gear 4 that broke the strings, not exactly the Gear itself, or brute strenght per se. I took it as Luffy being controlled like a marionette and when he grew to, like, 3 times his size, the strings weren't adapted to that burst and snapped.
Or maybe Gear 4th > Jozu.
Is it so hard to imagine ?
When this wouldn´t be the case the manga would never end.
Afterall we´re now in a stage of the story, where Luffy only has the yonkou and admirals above him , which he has to overcome.
(that doesn´t mean that other pirates (Kid or the last shichibukai) wouldn´t be an obstacle of course.
Certain DFs could always be a hurdle for him. (like with Foxy, even when we than don´t have that feeling of everything is on the line)
@Don:
Of course we fans (and the typical shonen-format) dictate in a certain way that Luffy will always face the main villain and defeat him, but as seen especially with Magellan it´s not always clear that he has to defeat his enemies in a specific way.
I wasn´t a big fan of Luffy not actually defeating Magellan during that time, but after thinking about it, he defeated him in breaking out of ID with many others, which was the only goal Magellan had to prefent.
So Luffy may not have defeated him physical, but mentally in making him fail his one goal.
Too true, and that is what really bothered Magellen the most; as shown in a way in Brandnew's report to Sengoku= Magellen felt great shame from the break out, willing to take blame for it and wanted to commit suicide, Sengoku yelled at Brandnew not to let him (Mag) to do anything stupid. Instead he was demoted.
Great. Why the guy in losing position is deliberately making his own moves weaker?
He's not, though.
The Birdcage strings are hard and rigid, being able to barely bend. Doula is not going to be able to use them through his slashing moves for example.
It's the same thing in our world. There are several kinds of strings out there that have different properties and purposes. Some are even combined into others to make stronger ones. Caesar himself is able to create different kinds of gas and fuse them to make stronger ones. Same for Magellan and poison. Don't see why Doula can't be the same.
I understand what you guys are saying about Dofla not using effective attacks and all but would u rather him do the same thing over and over and watch Luffy either counter or dodge it. Then it would be like the Kreig fight except Luffy wouldn'tt be getting hurt at all. The only thing that i have seen you guys say that wasn't used or at least tried at some point was the clones during the fight. I think that Dofla thought he was going to win still and didn't need to waste his time with clones. He didn't think he needed to run.
The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why he wouldn't use the birdcage strings with parasite on Luffy. I think it might be because they are hard to manipulate quickly. Sort of how Doffy could've just slammed the birdcage to really small and everyone would've died. That is the only possibility i can think of. I would assume that the birdcage strings are different somehow from the regular strings Doffy uses and it is just to hard to manipulate those types of strings quickly for some reason
The thing about Fuji is i feel like he knows that Doffy is blackmailing the WG and if he outright tried to take him down he would get demoted or something so in order to get the shichibukai out of power he wanted to stay out of the fight entirely. The reason he didn't take out the cage is because he has info that says the only way to take the birdcage out is by taking out the user or having a specific skill set such as a fire DF to melt the strings or an ice one to freeze them and then brake them. This would be a situation like Enel vs Luffy where Enel's DF was very formidable and the only reason Luffy beat him at the time was because of his DF. I don't know if Fuji would be able to take out the cage without causing mass casualties cuz his gravity would affect a large area. This is kinda just me spitballing but whatevs :p
He's not, though.
The Birdcage strings are hard and rigid. Doula is not going to be able to use them through his slashing moves for example.
It's the same thing in our world. There are several kinds of strings out there that have different properties and purposes. Some are even combined into others to make stronger ones. Caesar himself is able to create different kinds of gas. Same for Magellan and poison. Don't see why Doula can't be the same.
I would think that it would be obvious that don strings have different properties and purposes.
For eg the strings properties that he using to repair him self is not the same as the bird cage .
If that were the case, I would appreciate some "Oh, please" moment later on when (and if) Fuji comes across Doffy once again, where the later tries another of his tricks only to get bashed. It would redeem the admiral at least a little bit to show that he truly could have acted on his own.
Failing that, I must unfortunately admit that he is just as powerless as bloody Rebecca…:getlost:
Wow! Of course! It all makes perfect sense now!
Issho definitely must have been thinking something like:"Hmmm…I certainly could beat this mad sadistic guy and stop this whole cage thing if I wanted... but you known what?Instead I'll just let him onslaught an entire town while I sit down and watch like any admiral in his right mind would do.Or Better yet! I'll merely "help" these fools to push this birdcage thing just a tiny little bit instead of simply destroying it and saving everybody's asses!Yeah! After all,I must follow my agenda strictly as I planned,which means:let Donquixote go berserk and kill as many people as he pleases and ONLY AFTER that,break the cage and come for his head."
Absolutely brilliant.
Im on my phone and is pain to write a long post…
General question here: How many people has explained Issho's personal agenda by now?
General question here: How many people has explained Issho's personal agenda by now?
Oh, many. Generally in ways that contradict each other.
@χοκινακος:
stfu fucking idiots motherfackers bronze 5 all greece fuck you!!!
one piece now is the worst animu ever
1. 0 news from sanji fucking oda cancer to every cell in your body is the tontatta bitch leo more imortant than sanji?!!?!?i mean leo appears in every motherfucking chapter
2.12312413414 breaks per week fuck you oda you are so bastard
3.doflamingo is fucking evil shemale bitch
4.boobs…i dont want boobs idiot pederast bastard i want to see fucking shonnen and no boobs look hxh and after talk
5.the new world is so easyyyyyy i mean so many hipes for this sea and is the most easiest sea the straw hats goes.
6.15 years and we dont see one motherfucking image from emperor kaido...but if his design is ugly and not creepy and badass i will go in japan and i will fuck oda's milf mother.
7.say ''poutso bannana to all greece''
You should really clam down.
Oh, many. Generally in ways that contradict each other.
It's in the manga people should not have to explain .
I mean you can hate what he doing or call it stupid etc etc but it is in the manga.
He's not, though.
The Birdcage strings are hard and rigid, being able to barely bend. Doula is not going to be able to use them through his slashing moves for example.
It's the same thing in our world. There are several kinds of strings out there that have different properties and purposes. Some are even combined into others to make stronger ones. Caesar himself is able to create different kinds of gas and fuse them to make stronger ones. Same for Magellan and poison. Don't see why Doula can't be the same.
So why isn't he making his shields out it? Why doesn't he create a second, smaller birdcage, with him at the center, for example?
@Don:
I think Luffy being stronger than a high commander of a yonkou (or at least capable of fighting with them on equal grounds) should now be a given.
Seeing Doffy play with Jozu and Luffy taking out this guy gave us finally the confirmation after the TS that Luffy has stepped up his game immensly.
That was obviously necessary and knowing that his next targets are yonkou, there is no other way than him reaching that level behind a yonkou or an admiral, but at least on equal grounds with high yonkou commanders, or else how should it ever be possible to actually defeat a yonkou for Luffy.Jozu might be a big name, but Luffy is the one that comes to dethrone the yonkous, so it´s not that farfetched to say that after the TShe overcome(or at least is equal) to such a powerhouse.
Afterall Ace was considered the same level as Jozu and Luffy should have reached that now after TS at least.
Beating Doffy was the stepping stone in my eyes to overcome this level and now the next big step is to tackle the high-tier level of yonkous and admirals, which still may only defeatable for him with a boost, some luck and with the help of others. (like he got even against Doffy or else his Gear4 drawback would have cost him his life)
I agree with pretty much all of this, from a storypoint perspective. But here are my problems with comparing jozu and luffy in-universe (and specifically through parasito)
I am of the opinion that comparing devil fruit users is very difficult - I'm nkt sure what it even means to say Luffy is stronger than Jozu (I'm not sure how rubber matches ip to diamond…). That being said, if the story required them to fight, I think Liffy would have to crush him - like you say. BUT, precisely because it is a weird match-up, I don't think they ever will fight one another.
In any case though, let's grant that Luffy is in fact stronger than Jozu - hell, maybe he is (whatever that means here). I don't think we know that just because Liffy broke parasito and Jozu couldn't. First, we have to factor in that Jozu has also been hanging out for a couple of years, and may have gotten stronger, but more importantly Luffy broke parasito due to a weird function of his devil fruit; he didn't break it because lf how strong he is and how weak Jozu is, but rather he broke it by rapidly expanding his body - something Jozu can't do.
To illustrate the illicit inference, we can flip it around: Luffy can be pierced by knives and swords, but Jozu can't, therefore Jozu is stronger. But here we see that it isn't about strength: Jozu can be made of diamon, and thus can be unpierceable (at least without haki); Luffy is made of rubber and so he can be pierced. This doesn't mean Jozu is "stronger." This isn't about quantity of "strength but rather their differing abilities.
I'm on my phone so please forgive my typos, especially this autocorrect "Liffy" thing...
He did make shields two 2 different types spider web and offwhite .
I know he did. I'm questioning why didn't he use seemingly indestructible type of strings he used for birdcage to do so.
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It's in the manga people should not have to explain .
I mean you can hate what he doing or call it stupid etc etc but it is in the manga.
Fujitora's personal agenda? As in, the one he has right now? His plan, only vaguely alluded to, and deliberately so in the manga?
Fujitora's actions are not all clear.
I know he did. I'm questioning why didn't he use seemingly indestructible type of strings he used for birdcage to do so.
You don't know if the bird cage can take the king kong punch .
We are talking about attack that hit someone with enough force that them hitting the ground split the island.
No one has even hit it with a attack of that much power .
Fujitora's personal agenda? As in, the one he has right now? His plan, only vaguely alluded to, and deliberately so in the manga?
Fujitora's actions are not all clear.
As of right now we know fuju personal agenda and what he was going to do in the arc.
What we don't know is how he going to get his personal agenda done which should come in time.
Oh, many. Generally in ways that contradict each other.
Can I get an example?
It says banned but still ON, so I'm unsure.
Why doesn't he create a second, smaller birdcage, with him at the center, for example?
Birdcage takes time to prepare. That was obvious when Doula tossed Luffy and Co. away from the palace so he wouldn't be interrupted when forming it.
He certainly wouldn't be able to make it in the middle of a fight.
I don't have any problem with the birdcage being so overpowered, because Dofla had prep time. He had to dissolve his string clone to do it, and that's obviously an elaborate time consuming piece of work. Him having the one master card setup in his town is fine, no different than Moria having Oars. If Dofla could do this at any time and didn't do it during the war for example, then THAT would be ridiculous. But. Home town prep time covers it for me.
As for Fujitora? I thoguht he'd been pretty clear. He wants to take the warlord system down, (including the immunities it stretched towards other pirates, hence how he questioned Law's alliance with Luffy.) but a marine can NOT do it, it has to very publicly be someone else that can't be denied. To that end, he followed to the the letter of the law how to deal with Warlords,. Immunity, side with the ones still officially on the government side, etc.
Otherwise it'll just get covered up again like with Croc and Moria…. and Arlong, Wapol, Blackbeard, Impel Down and Punk Hazard for that matter.
He protected civilians and didn't let anyone die, he very clearly stepped in to help stop the cage when it became too dangerous (and he DID try to stop it early on and found his powers ineffective) and actually, I'm pretty sure almost no one on the island even knows he's an admiral... the guys in the casino sure didn't. (Which is also where he decided Luffy was an okay guy and didn't need to be captured like a violent pirate, and he probably judged Sabo to be an okay guy as well) As far as most people know, he's no admiral, he's just some guy helping out.
I know he did. I'm questioning why didn't he use seemingly indestructible type of strings he used for birdcage to do so.
Fujitora's personal agenda? As in, the one he has right now? His plan, only vaguely alluded to, and deliberately so in the manga?
Fujitora's actions are not all clear.
Shut up Darth. You left, you're staying left.
@uniaka:
I'm not convinced about the parasite thing. If strength was the way the counter it all along, we would at least see characters try. Luffy can't be much stronger then Jozu, the guy was close to what top guys out there did. Maybe parasite is not the same thing as 'immobilize thing'.
I can definitely believe Gear 4th Luffy is stronger than Jozu.
I don't have any problem with the birdcage being so overpowered, because Dofla had prep time. He had to dissolve his string clone to do it, and that's obviously an elaborate time consuming piece of work. Him having the one master card setup in his town is fine, no different than Moria having Oars. If Dofla could do this at any time and didn't do it during the war for example, then THAT would be ridiculous. But. Home town prep time covers it for me.
Didn't seem to take him much time to put it up on Minion.
Either the size dictates how long it takes to put up or Doflamingo was prepared to put it up on Minion as a fail-safe.
Didn't seem to take him much time to put it up on Minion.
Either the size dictates how long it takes to put up or Doflamingo was prepared to put it up on Minion as a fail-safe.
Regardless of size, if he tried to create a second one in the middle of a fight, he would just lock himself with whoever he is fighting, making it pointless as a shield.
But there's no evidence he can make a second one anyway. He already has to manipulate the first one.
Regardless of size, if he tried to create a second one in the middle of a fight, he would just lock himself with whoever he is fighting, making it pointless as a shield.
But there's no evidence he can make a second one anyway. He already has to manipulate the first one.
Oh, I wasn't saying he could make a second one, just commenting on Robby's thoughts on whether any kind of preparations are needed to make one.
I agree with pretty much all of this, from a storypoint perspective. But here are my problems with comparing jozu and luffy in-universe […]
Jozu just stands for a high ranked member of any yonkou crew.
DFs have strenght and weaknesses to each other as i mentioned in another post here, so yeah nothing is set in stone, but it´s possible to grasp the general idea where to put Luffy strenght-wise.
Jozu was obviously able to tank a hit by Mihawk, which would have killed Luffy and Jozu should be able to hit as hard as (maybeGear4??), non the less stays my opinion on who would be stronger.
Second in comment guys like Marco may be equal to Luffy but the rest (like Jozu) should be doable for Luffy.
@Robby
You sniffed him out like..a dog :)
Sherlockhusky Bevard :wub:
Well with the fight over and having thought over it for some time, I have come to my full conclusion of the overall fight. The fight overall was quite good, great in some aspects. Unfortunately, due to execution and where in the story we are at, the ending came to be underwhelming, and I don't think it's exactly Oda's fault.
To be sure, Doflamingo does come out looking good. He took massive amounts of damage, and even being one strong attack away from being taken out, he was able to take on a number of gladiators. He push Law to his limits, and Luffy had to go all out and use his for now strongest attack to take him out. Doflamingo was by no means a weakling, and only lost due to everyone being against him in the end, and forces being there he didn't account for (Sabo being the main one). Some question the choice of his strategy and how he went about his fight in the end. I go with the fact that Luffy is the first person in so long to push him this far, and that his anger overcame any logical thinking of possible strategy. Factor in how tired he was, that I feel any lack of thought that people claim he might've had could be justified. However, that comes to personal opinion and I have learned that on these threads the opinions will not be changed.
I like the idea of how Luffy needed help from others to make this possible in some way. Going further on, we know that it will take more than just the Straw Hats to take on these challenges. Some will argue that if the other Straw Hats were around, it would've been easier. While that is true, it still wouldn't have been possible if not for the other help. Factor in that if Ceasar were to fall out of their hands, it could've caused extra problems (though that is a separate argument I don't want to get into at the moment). We had great moments such as Law and Luffy working together to get the first hit on Doflamingo, Law using the Gamma Knife, Luffy stopping Doflamingo from finishing Law, Gear 4 reveal, and the King Kong Gun. Overall, there were great moments and it ended with a bang.
However, the fight was missing that element that made earlier fights more invigorating. The simple fact of both parties giving it all at some point. There was never a part in this fight where both parties were going at it, giving each other damage waiting for the moment to give their final hit. The reason why the Lucci fight is my favorite fight in the series was it was two equals giving it their all. Crocodile was great in the end because both were fighting with the last of their strength. The Enel fight didn't quite have that, but you had a back and forth tug o war were both parties had an edge at various points. In this fight, we had Doflamingo at a constant near win for a while, then once Gear 4 happened, it was Luffy on the edge of winning. After Gear 4, it was Luffy needing time to give the final tug, and Doflamingo had no way of bringing it back. The lack of a point where both of them are using all their strength at each other, seeing who will get overwhelmed first made this fight less exciting. That one aspect stopped this fight from being great to amazing. Instead, it's merely good.
In the end, it was the best outcome we could get. The fact is we are at the first major arc in the new world, and the last epic arc was the War arc. When it first started, the world was full of mystery, with new things being uncovered which lead to the War. After the war, changes were happening, but there was a clear idea of what to expect. We knew just what kind of monsters awaited the crew, and they had to prepare. Their first major foe was one of the strongest Shikibukai, which while a strong foe, is not exactly a looming monster. Doflamingo is powerful, but he is dwarfed by the Admirals and the Yonko that lie ahead of them. Doflamingo had to be strong enough to show that pre-time skip strawhats didn't stand a chance, but after training he took effort to take down, but wasn't impossible. We got that here, where Luffy is strong enough to dwarf him in some way, and we got to see how he still needs to improve to take on more foes. Sure, he was able to massively hurt Doflamingo, but against Kaido or Akainu, they are strong enough to fight back, take the hits, and still be quite healthy enough to get Luffy once he loses all his strength.
Doflamingo was in the unfortunate position of being after a time-skip and before the real players of the New World. Where in the Grandline he was king, he is a knight or a rook in the chess board of the New World.
