Chapter 788: "My Fight"

G_soildier

Was luffy completely helpless though? I know its been said that his haki was depleted but did'nt he say he could escape doflamingo untill gatz decided to carry him away? "When he said he could move about but don't know what doflamingo will do in ten minutes"Also if he luffy was as helpless as many think how in the world did he survive without rayleigh? Would'nt the beasts have absolutely destroyed him? You mean, luffy has nothing left, thats it, in six months he has no defence, no way out when his haki goes to bed? Or was hankock and others always protecting him?

I think doflamigo might be as strong if not stronger than old rayleigh.

LuffydaPirateKing

@Doffy.:

Can i just nominate this post as the worst post of 2015 ? Jesus Christ people sure are desperate for attention in this part of the forum .

can't argue with those facts

lokilasher

@Doffy.:

Can i just nominate this post as the worst post of 2015 ? Jesus Christ people sure are desperate for attention in this part of the forum .

I kind of agree with Ned on a certain level.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

I say let's just put it to bed that in my opinion no Luffy couldn't solo Doflamingo he had help from Law for the most part. It was more of a tag team sort of thing even though they mainly fought him one on one. Although I think Luffy COULD solo Doflamingo if he can learn to extend the Gear 4 run time. It's pretty clear the direction One Piece is heading. I don't think we're going to see Luffy soloing the big bad guys anymore, I think it's going to be a team match up with his allies to help take down Yonko's and Admirals and such.

HacheBe

People stop complaining about Fujitora. He is in a position that is perfect for him if Luffy wins he takes Doffy to jail and starts his fight against Shichibukai. If Doffy wins he takes in a notorious pirate with a bounty of 400,000,000. He can't lose!!!! all he cares about at this point is the citizens and as soon as people start to die or it gets really close he will go in and one shot Doffy. He just wants to have Luffy do it so he doesn't get in trouble or have to explain why he did it. I mean the WG is gonna be pissed if they figured out that because of citizens Fuji took out Doffy and Doffy goes and tells their secret or something.

He is not being useless he is being wise and is in a win win situation all he has to do is get Luffy as much time as possible cuz he can see that Luffy is gonna win.

RamistaR

@Hy4000uk:

Luffy would have beat the shit out of doflamingo regardless

Gear 4 was far beyond doflamingo

If you get Bellamy, Trebol and Law out of the equation, yeah maybe.
But Luffy would be dead without Gatz and the gladiators.

G_soildier

@RamistaR:

If you get Bellamy, Trebol and Law out of the equation, yeah maybe.
But Luffy would be dead without Gatz and the gladiators.

would he? i disagree

RamistaR

@G_soildier:

would he? i disagree

He is kind of sleeping in this chapter. He didn't seem like he was going to block Burgess either.

Saturnchild

@Adam:

Luffy might be getting help from the people from Dressrosa, but don't forget Doflamingo is also taking advantadge of them; forcing Luffy to hurry up by threatening their lives. He used Gear Fourth at that point of the fight because he had to finish the battle as soon as possible to protect the country, (which he failed to do, by a margin of one hit) but the need to hurry up wouldn't have existed if the citizens weren't in danger.

Basically, both Luffy and Doflamingo are taking advantadge of the citizens.

And it's not as if Luffy didn't take any damage before the fight, either.

Yeah Luffy has been fighting for hours now including a rather tense fight against Chinjao where he had to really steup it up and use his gears and haki. Meanwhile Doflas has been very rested and even in his fight against Law he had an Admiral to back him up. I would say that if they were are both rested and at full strength Dofla and Luffy seem pretty equal. Which is impressive since Oda is going out of his way to make Dofla ridiucously overpowered

Demonicpoodle

@Adam:

Luffy might be getting help from the people from Dressrosa, but don't forget Doflamingo is also taking advantadge of them; forcing Luffy to hurry up by threatening their lives. He used Gear Fourth at that point of the fight because he had to finish the battle as soon as possible to protect the country, (which he failed to do, by a margin of one hit) but the need to hurry up wouldn't have existed if the citizens weren't in danger.

Basically, both Luffy and Doflamingo are taking advantadge of the citizens.

And it's not as if Luffy didn't take any damage before the fight, either.

Luffy has definitely taken significant damage before the fight, but I'm just one of those people who classify internal organ damage as even further than that. I guess the narrative's point is that they are both damaged, though, so they can't fight at their full capacities. We can go "they're both evenly damaged" or "one is more damaged than the other" from here, I don't really care which – they're both at the least damaged. The fight doesn't exist in a vacuum so I don't really feel like we're supposed to know who is stronger. For the short burst of time that he's in it though, Gear 4 Luffy is clearly superior and trounces him to smithereens. But one factor throughout all this is that Doflamingo is maintaining a Birdcage this entire time. That must take SOME effort. Had he had no need to do that, would that tip the scales in his favor? I mean if that takes no conscious effort, that makes Birdcage even more crazy.

uniaka ikuzakas

@Saturnchild:

Yeah Luffy has been fighting for hours now including a rather tense fight against Chinjao where he had to really steup it up and use his gears and haki. Meanwhile Doflas has been very rested and even in his fight against Law he had an Admiral to back him up. I would say that if they were are both rested and at full strength Dofla and Luffy seem pretty equal. Which is impressive since Oda is going out of his way to make Dofla ridiucously overpowered

DD had fights with Law alone, law again, Sanji, Smoker, former admiral, got his organs smashed.

Chinjao is under any of those guys to begin with.

Razh

@Doffy.:

Can i just nominate this post as the worst post of 2015 ? Jesus Christ people sure are desperate for attention in this part of the forum .

Doffy. D Evil calling out bad posts. Now that's rich. Oh no, someone doesn't like things I like! :'(

How bout instead of being an ass, you rebuke some of the stuff Ned wrote, or something?

Monquito

@uniaka:

I just wonder what will you guys say now after this battle ends( since DD is likely 1-2 shots from Luffy and defeated next chapter)

Did Luffy solo DD'? Or was is a team up?

Meadows did most of the job, the rest is the Scratch in the face Law gave him and Kong Gun.

zeff redleg

Am I the only one who thinks that Oda's spending less time with the recent chapters because he's spending more time on important things after the arc ends? I recall last time we saw such a buildup, it was followed by law's flashback. So. I assume Oda's planning something big after the fight ends.

uniaka ikuzakas

@zeff:

Am I the only one who thinks that Oda's spending less time with the recent chapters because he's spending more time on important things after the arc ends? I recall last time we saw such a buildup, it was followed by law's flashback. So. I assume Oda's planning something big after the fight ends.

I sure hope he plans something big about half of the crew we din't see for so long. And no, Big mom eating them is not a option.

Forseeable Future

So the stage is set with Dofla, Rebecca and Viola.
Dofla's only motivation is to find and kill Luffy.

I think that instead of killing Viola, he'll attempt to coerce her to use her DF
to locate Luffy for him. Also, I think Doffy is Oda's third real sadist of the series,
after Sadi-chan and Spandam, and next chapter we'll see Viola bloody and then
get puppeted to attack Rebecca.

Luffy takes down Dofla in 2 chapters…

andy

@zeff:

Am I the only one who thinks that Oda's spending less time with the recent chapters because he's spending more time on important things after the arc ends? I recall last time we saw such a buildup, it was followed by law's flashback. So. I assume Oda's planning something big after the fight ends.

Don't see it as spending less time.
Oda just wants to do everyone help beats\ stops the bad guy in some way .
The whole arc get set up for this type of ending.

Antares

Concerning why Zoro didn't slash, i remember there was a panel in 787 showing a blast from Zoro and Birdcage, justbefore Zoro tell Kanjurou etc to help. Chinjao Franky etc pushing Birdcage didn't have those collisiom blast effect, so i assume that Zoro tried to cut it and failed, that's why he followed through with pushing.

Fujitora clearly just played around from my perspective about his ideals goals etc.

Anyway, even if it took half of his power to build The Birdcage, Doflamingo was still the source, from the scene where everyone looked to the sky and realized Birdcage was still there. It meant that Doflamingo was in control of Birdcage all along.

So i agree that in general, Luffy was still weaker than Doflamingo. But it also followed by this: Dofla hold Birdcage against so many fighters, Zoro included, and the only one he pissed off about is only Luffy. It shows just how much powerful Luffy's desperation move was, able to corner a person of that calibre like that.

my two cents

The Franky Tank

@Doffy.:

Can i just nominate this post as the worst post of 2015 ? Jesus Christ people sure are desperate for attention in this part of the forum .

There might be some posts that could be called desperate for attention (I feel my big posts could be included), but Ned is not one of them. He's not being inflammatory, and he states his reason for his dislike. If you disagree, just do what Razh said, and discuss the points. If you don't feel like it, then just ignore. I personally liked the chapter, but I do see the legitimate criticisms people have of the arc.

Also, your sig freaks me out every time, and it's awesome.

Torao

by the way i dont like that they need(?) to push against bartos barrier
wouldnt that imply that his barrier could be pushed away by the strings, otherwise?

kcity

@Torao:

by the way i dont like that they need(?) to push against bartos barrier
wouldnt that imply that his barrier could be pushed away by the strings, otherwise?

It is already being pushed by the strings the whole time, all those efforts plus the barrier and pushing against it only resulted in halting the strings for a brief moment.

andy

@Torao:

by the way i dont like that they need(?) to push against bartos barrier
wouldnt that imply that his barrier could be pushed away by the strings, otherwise?

Well there unbreakable but i don't remember if they say they unmovable .

Torao

@andy:

Well there unbreakable but i don't remember if they say they unmovable .

after king punch i thought it was.
wouldnt it otherwise still have send barto flying by smashing his barrier against him?^^
if they really are movable, then props to him for halting it against a king punch

andy

@Torao:

after king punch i thought it was.
wouldnt it otherwise still have send barto flying by smashing his barrier against him?^^

King punch must not have be strong enough at that distance .
Plus unlike the bird cage that moving all the time with enough force to push the city the king punch last a short while.

HTC

@DHL:

Haki has a limit. Covering that much surface area with CoA would have Doflamingo done.

Can't wait to see full body CoA Doffy.

But he only covered the strings, no? Sure: it should take it's toll to create that much strings and big too, but once done and unless destroyed, they stand until the creator removes them, no? Plus, the cage was created quite a while ago, which means the haki he dispensed in creating it is already restored.

skoopa

@HTC:

But he only covered the strings, no? Sure: it should take it's toll to create that much strings and big too, but once done and unless destroyed, they stand until the creator removes them, no? Plus, the cage was created quite a while ago, which means the haki he dispensed in creating it is already restored.

then zoro's swords are always covered with haki , no it don't seem right , bird cage strings are probably not covered with haki .

King Cannon

@uniaka:

DD had fights with Law alone, law again, Sanji, Smoker, former admiral, got his organs smashed.

Chinjao is under any of those guys to begin with.

Smoker and Aokiji happened one day ago.

And in all Law fights, Doula had an unfair advantage: Fuji help, heavily-wounded Law and Trebol help.

Razh

@King:

Smoker and Aokiji happened one day ago.

And in all Law fights, Doula had an unfair advantage: Fuji help, heavily-wounded Law and Trebol help.

Except when they fought on the bridge and in the town. Unless you count possible fatigue of Law's after Green Bit, which you really shouldn't.

King Cannon

@Razh:

Doffy. D Evil calling out bad posts. Now that's rich. Oh no, someone doesn't like things I like! :'(

How bout instead of being an ass, you rebuke some of the stuff Ned wrote, or something?

Ned's post itself would bring a lot of problems as well. I pointed something out and he replied with a wall of text explaining how it would work instead of keeping it simple.

By making the cage indestructible, Oda at least avoids having to introduce and explain more weird mechanics about it. No point in making the cage breakable just to make the likes of Zoro look better.

Adam Fenix

I also don't understand all that "Doflamingo got his organs messed up, he's nerfed" argument, since he instantly stitched them together and got up without any consequence. I mean, i'd be the first one saying "He's nerfed, Law's attack really decided this battle!" if we saw Doflamingo randomly coughing blood or something like that.

If anything, i always saw the whole Gamma Knife scene as a parallelism to Enel, who got killed by Wiper, then ""resurrected"" himself and continued to fight like it was nothing. A Hype Tool.

King Cannon

@Razh:

Except when they fought on the bridge and in the town. Unless you count possible fatigue of Law's after Green Bit, which you really shouldn't.

Why not? We know he at least spent 15 minutes (time between the end of C-Block and start of D-Block) buying time against both Doula and Fuji. Even Doula thought he had no more energy to use his ability at the time as he was surprised that Law was able to escape Fuji's gravity.

Razh

@King:

Ned's post itself would bring a lot of problems as well. I pointed something out and he replied with a wall of text explaining how it would work instead of keeping it simple.

Honestly, it sounds that he's more disappointed that Zoro can't cut it than the Birdcage being indestructible.

I don't necessarily agree with everything in there, but I noticed Doffy. tends to flame people who criticize OP, without elaborating or providing counter arguments.

I really believe that those strings are just too sharp for any sword, Haki coated or not and that any swordsman who would try to cut it could potentially damage or destroy his weapon. But you can't say it's not weird that everyone just took birdcage being indestructable for granted. So much that even a guy that bragged how there's nothing he can't cut doesn't even try to cut it. Or at least cut through the ground under the birdcage. Stuff like that sometimes really makes immersion into the story a little difficult.

In the meantime, I just accepted the birdcage is close to indestructible and that Zoro and others are worried if trying to cut it would make things even worse. You cut one side and all those razor strings come raining down on Dressrosa population? Snip!
For someone who hates when the readers are making excuses for writers, I'm actually pretty decent at it, aren't I? :ninja:

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@King:

Why not? We know he at least spent 15 minutes (time between the end of C-Block and start of D-Block) buying time against both Doula and Fuji. Even Doula thought he had no more energy to use his ability at the time as he was surprised that Law was able to escape Fuji's gravity.

Well, Law might have been faking it to take advantage of their carelesness, though. Would be pretty smart when handling Shichibukai and an admiral simultaneously.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Adam:

I also don't understand all that "Doflamingo got his organs messed up, he's nerfed" argument, since he instantly stitched them together and got up without any consequence. I mean, i'd be the first one saying "He's nerfed, Law's attack really decided this battle!" if we saw Doflamingo randomly coughing blood or something like that.

If anything, i always saw the whole Gamma Knife scene as a parallelism to Enel, who got killed by Wiper, then ""resurrected"" himself and continued to fight like it was nothing. A Hype Tool.

Enel is a logia, though. The whole effort of Law's is worthless if Gamma Knife didn't give lasting problems to Dofla. He should at least be in constant pain, unless his strings now administer pain killers on top of everything else. It seems obvious Oda wanted to portray Dofla's fall as a team effort and not something Luffy could cause one on one.

Doffy. D Evil

@The:

There might be some posts that could be called desperate for attention (I feel my big posts could be included), but Ned is not one of them. He's not being inflammatory, and he states his reason for his dislike. If you disagree, just do what Razh said, and discuss the points. If you don't feel like it, then just ignore. I personally liked the chapter, but I do see the legitimate criticisms people have of the arc.

Also, your sig freaks me out every time, and it's awesome.

By bringing dumbass points such as how people in a fantasy series can push strings ? Or the fact that he wants birdcage to be breakable just so Zoro can look better instead of him not cutting something like that . Sorry but dumb post like these don't strike me as anything but desperate for attention .

Also This crap :

! True enough. Especially so, we don't need more excuses to have it.
! Well, the regeneration point would handle that. Instant regeneration comes from two places:
(1) Oda has creative authority here. He can do what he wants. Admittedly, that's not very satisfying. More importantly though,
(2) The birdcage was created by a string clone. The strings forming the bird cage are pretty clearly of a greater volume than the strings composing the clone (more string makes up the cage than did the clone), so we've already seen strings come from strings. If string can come from string, I don't see why more birdcage can't come from the birdcage, up to some limit. I've been assuming there is a certain amount of string Doffy can have going at once (otherwise, why no army of clones? Why not cover the world in birdcages?), but if the cage is cut, I see no reason why that wouldn't allow him to replace what has been lost without exceeding his limit.
! The instant portion is why people wouldn't be able to escape. First, it might just be the case that he has never trapped someone who can cut like Zoro, but to keep the cage relevant, it would work just fine if it regenerated instantly. By instantly, I here mean the minimal unit of time - however small a time span can exist between event A and later event B, that would be the "instant" between A and B. (This is not generally my conception of "instant" but is what I mean here.) So, if he cut it, but it literally reformed the moment the blade was not in the way, people wouldn't be able to get out.
! Here is a diagram of what I mean ("|" is string, "==>" is sword, while Zoro is swinging it through string)
! Time 1:
|||||
|||||
==>
|||||
|||||
! Time 2:
|||||
|||||
|==>
|||||
|||||
! Time 3:
|||||
|||||
||==>
|||||
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! Time 4:
|||||
|||||
|||==>
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! Time 5:
|||||
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||||==>
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! Time 6:
|||||
|||||
|||||==>
|||||
|||||
! (Alternate model at bottom of post, showing a bigger time gap)
! So on this model, there would never be a gap (much) larger than the sword. Yet, I would imagine this would take effort to regenerate on Doffy's part, it would take time - albeit small - to regenerate, and it might even require Doffy to notice it first. I imagine he would notice nearly immediately, as I am assuming some part of mental awareness of his strings (otherwise parasite, let alone country-wide parasite, makes no sense). Maybe one person would get out. Iunno. But we know Zoro can swing fast as hell. So even if this didn't open an appreciable gap, it could conceivably stall the birdcage a bit as each regeneration would take a very small amount of time but would add up as Zoro hacks away at it.
! That's extravagant, but much more interesting than Mr. "I can cut anything" pushing on the birdcage, and could show that it is specifically the qualities of Doffy's power that is the problem, rather than some quantitative "power level." It is how the strings work that are the problem, not just that Doffy is stronger than an Island full of big shots.
! And the real point is that this is in no way the only alternative for Oda to choose from - he is much more creative than I am, and I think that what I came up with is way better than what we are currently seeing in One Piece. It would stand to reason then that Oda could do a MUCH better job than he is doing and still way, way, way, way better than what I have suggested.
! I also completely agree. I definitely see that Oda is trying to say "These people are trying so hard! Their determination is so strong! They are doing their best! Everyone do your best! (Even if your best is just pushing!)", but Zoro and Fujitora can - simply put - do better. At least Zoro would try to do better (I don't think Fuji would, due to his own agenda of abolishing the schikibukai); why would Zoro not even try to cut the birdcage?
! I'm glad I'm not alone in this chapter being the first I totally hate.
! Alternate model of time gap/string regneration (with "." just being empty space/cut string):
! Time 1:
|||||
|||||
==>
|||||
|||||
! Time 2:
|||||
|||||
.==>
|||||
|||||
! Time 3:
|||||
|||||
..==>
|||||
|||||
! Time 4:
|||||
|||||
|..==>
|||||
|||||
! Time 5:
|||||
|||||
||..==>
|||||
|||||
! Time 6:
|||||
|||||
|||..==>
|||||
|||||
! (P.S.: I had a typo where I wrote think twice, i.e., "think think." The "think think no mi" would be sweet.)

andy

I think people just have to accept the fact that don strings are super sharp and strong .
The same way how they accept certain powers like Mr 3 wax as strong as steel for eg .
Oda could explain what the strings made from but that opens another can of worms .

Adam Fenix

@Razh:

Enel is a logia, though. The whole effort of Law's is worthless if Gamma Knife didn't give lasting problems to Dofla. He should at least be in constant pain, unless his strings now administer pain killers on top of everything else. It seems obvious Oda wanted to portray Dofla's fall as a team effort and not something Luffy could cause one on one.

Enel being a Logia doesn't change anything, he received a Reject Dial to the heart while he was being restrained with Kairoseki. He even died from it lol.

If Doflamingo is in constant pain, why isn't there any signal of him being in Constant Pain? how come he got a Bazooka to the stomach from Gear Fourth Luffy, and there wasn't any kind of emphasis on how messed up his organs are?

Razh

@Adam:

Enel being a Logia doesn't change anything, he received a Reject Dial to the heart while he was being restrained with Kairoseki. He even died from it lol.

If Doflamingo is in constant pain, why isn't there any signal of him being in Constant Pain? how come he got a Bazooka to the stomach from Gear Fourth Luffy, and there wasn't any kind of emphasis on how messed up his organs are?

Fine, I give up, Dofla regenerated his cut up organs by stitching them together and it posed no further problems for him.

I do think Oda could have emphasized it a little better. Since he even showed some of Dofla's introspect during the fight, one simple afterthough of how the wounds made by Gamma Kinfe were hampering his movements would have been enough.

But no, since there's nothing of the kind shown, it allows for a possibility that he just restored himself, even if it should be preposterous. Might as well just call it Knife, instead of Gamma Knife.

uniaka ikuzakas

@Adam:

I also don't understand all that "Doflamingo got his organs messed up, he's nerfed" argument, since he instantly stitched them together and got up without any consequence. I mean, i'd be the first one saying "He's nerfed, Law's attack really decided this battle!" if we saw Doflamingo randomly coughing blood or something like that.

If anything, i always saw the whole Gamma Knife scene as a parallelism to Enel, who got killed by Wiper, then ""resurrected"" himself and continued to fight like it was nothing. A Hype Tool.

Himself said it's only basic aid and he needs time to do it too.

And DD is not the type to cry from attacks or complain like BB. Even now, when he got all the attacks from gear 4 luffy, he still acts like it's nothing even we can see he is almost finished.

Characters in one piece have insane endurance, so there's also that. WB himself likely got his organs burned by Akainu when he made the hole in his chest, but he was still able to fight like it was nothing after that.

DHL

@Adam:

Luffy was fast enough to hit Doflamingo with basic Gear Second attacks, but they didn't hurt him. Now, Red Hawk was powerful enough to hurt him, and it should also be fast enough to hit him since it's a Gear Second attack.

Yes, had the citizens refused to help Luffy, he would be dead. But if the citizens weren't there to begin with, he wouldn't have ended in that situation, since he rushed to Gear Fourth to protect them from the Birdcage. And that's why Doflamingo isn't knocked out already.

I'll repeat it, Doflamingo is said to be one hit away from getting knocked out. Luffy just used Gear Fourth too soon.

Doflamingo only commented on one attack. Luffy wasn't even able to get him other than that small exchange previously.

Luffy did not use gear 4 too soon. He wasn't getting anywhere. Luffy was confident that Laws gamma knife would have done the numberon him as Luffy mentioned.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Adam:

I also don't understand all that "Doflamingo got his organs messed up, he's nerfed" argument, since he instantly stitched them together and got up without any consequence. I mean, i'd be the first one saying "He's nerfed, Law's attack really decided this battle!" if we saw Doflamingo randomly coughing blood or something like that.

If anything, i always saw the whole Gamma Knife scene as a parallelism to Enel, who got killed by Wiper, then ""resurrected"" himself and continued to fight like it was nothing. A Hype Tool.

Its not just a stitch. He's not even done yet.

Basically the way strings or silk work in real life (string theory article explains this for doflamingo) is that it gives healing properties which can take up to years to perform

Once organs are destroyed, blood goes everywhere, acids and everything everywhere inside his body affecting other internal parts + gamma radiation poisoning.

You can't tell me he isn't nerfed?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Razh:

Fine, I give up, Dofla regenerated his cut up organs by stitching them together and it posed no further problems for him.

I do think Oda could have emphasized it a little better. Since he even showed some of Dofla's introspect during the fight, one simple afterthough of how the wounds made by Gamma Kinfe were hampering his movements would have been enough.

But no, since there's nothing of the kind shown, it allows for a possibility that he just restored himself, even if it should be preposterous. Might as well just call it Knife, instead of Gamma Knife.

Dont give up. Theres actual legitimate examples of what strings and threads can do in real life in regards to healing.

How are you going to stich something blown up and go ahh feel better now. Read my above post BTW.

Razh

@DHL:

Dont give up. Theres actual legitimate examples of what strings and threads can do in real life in regards to healing.

How are you going to stich something blown up and go ahh feel better now. Read my above post BTW.

Just gave up discussing, since Adam is right in one thing. There is no evidence Dofla was weakened in any way since Oda didn't make it clear enough. It's up to reader's intrerpretation. I can't tell him he's wrong because I can't support it with evidence. Dofla isn't caughing blood or losing step or complaining about pain. Luffy has a slight momentum after Law and Trebol are out of the picture, but it's nothing especially threatening to Dofla. He's still able to avoid and block perfectly. Luffy starts making the difference only when he goes G4 which, arguably, might have happened even if Dofla didn't take GM.

Best to drop it, since it's a dead end discussion. Unless Dofla or Law say Gamma Knife fucked him up in one of following chapters.

EDIT: Also, with the awakening angle, there's no telling what the limits of Dofla's ability are. Maybe he can just regenerate organs with his awakened strings. If he can turn stuff into strings, maybe he can turn strings into stuff. This would be a level above clones, though.

Hy4000uk

@RamistaR:

If you get Bellamy, Trebol and Law out of the equation, yeah maybe.
But Luffy would be dead without Gatz and the gladiators.

@Demonicpoodle:

I'm not so sure. Gear 4 is monstrous, don't get me wrong.

But – regardless of how he may have "shrugged it off" or was in the process of repairing it -- Doflamingo did have internal organ damage from Law.

Gear 4 also didn't finish off Doflamingo. Without the help of his allies, again, Luffy would be toast. Gatz and Law are considerable factors behind Luffy's eventual victory.

The point i'm trying to make is that doflamingo, regardless of his physical state, is no match for gear 4. He hasn't manage to get anything approaching a hit in against gear 4 luffy.

Sure he wasn't in the best of shape, but luffy has been figthing gladiators, tanking hits from bellamy and getting sliced up by doflamingo so he's hardly in the best shape either.

the points you make are sound but luffy is considerably stronger (albeit for a limited amount of time)

Mr. Luffy

@Torao:

by the way i dont like that they need(?) to push against bartos barrier
wouldnt that imply that his barrier could be pushed away by the strings, otherwise?

I kinda forgot that Barto's barriers had their own forward momentum if chosen to by Barto (such as against Elizabello).

The fact that Barto's barrier can be pushed back by the birdcage is certainly questionable considering that the King's punch didn't budge it an inch (nor Gladius's massive explosions), in addition to Barto's ability to thrust if forward. In the end, we can only surmise the following:

Birdcage movement > barrier + forward acceleration > King's punch.

Which is pretty freaking insane. And why it's best not to think to much on these sorts of things.

andy

@Mr.:

I kinda forgot that Barto's barriers had their own forward momentum if chosen to by Barto (such as against Elizabello).

The fact that Barto's barrier can be pushed back by the birdcage is certainly questionable considering that the King's punch didn't budge it an inch, in addition to Barto's ability to thrust if forward. In the end, we can only surmise the following:

Birdcage movement > barrier + forward acceleration.

Which is pretty freaking insane. And why it's best not to think to much on these sorts of things.

The bird cage is like someone pushing forward on you constantly .
The king punch is like someone just giving you one push can't really compare them.

EDIT also it not like bart can get a lot of forward acceleration since his barrier has to be right next to the cage.

Riddler

@SmokerSan:

We do not mind the pace, the cliffhangers. We are frustrated by how an ability that no one is controlling, can threaten and stop a whole country, 2 fucking vice admirals, a fucking admiral, and all the coliseum fighters, zoro, cavnedish, bartoromeo, the revolutionaries second in command, a yonko commander and another warlord. If all these people came up with the idea of pushing it and you don't find it starnge, then good for you. For some of us, it is frustrating. We are really sorry to disagree.

No no, there is o reason to be sorry to disagree, thats what a forum is for Hey, I admit that Oda didnt do himself a favour by including characters as powerful as Fujitora and Sabo in the arc, since he has to work hard to give them somewhat convincing reasons to not fight Doflamingo etc. Fujitora is obviously the major problem here, but I wont complain about him too much, because I dont feel like we have been given a complete explanation for his motives. Sabo has other stuff to do and doesnt seem so interested in fighting Doffy anyway. I dont know why any of those other people you mentioned should be able to either defeat Doflamingo or stop the Birdcage, though. All of them are either weaker or atleast on the same level as Luffy. Luffy has a hard time with Doffy and I dont think it would be plausible if he was able to destroy Birdcage or something. So, why should any of these other guys be? And what else could they do to stop Birdcage for a moment atleast besides pushing it? Cutting apparently doesnt work, so isnt this the most obvious choice? And yeah, I agree, it is a really strong fucking move. Doflamingo is freaking strong, so what? I mean, its not a move that can normally used in battle just like that, so it doesnt enhance his fighting strength that much. Also, Enel could destroy a whole country with his powers, too.

King Cannon

@Razh:

I don't necessarily agree with everything in there, but I noticed Doffy. tends to flame people who criticize OP, without elaborating or providing counter arguments.

I agree.

@Razh:

I really believe that those strings are just too sharp for any sword, Haki coated or not and that any swordsman who would try to cut it could potentially damage or destroy his weapon. But you can't say it's not weird that everyone just took birdcage being indestructable for granted. So much that even a guy that bragged how there's nothing he can't cut doesn't even try to cut it. Or at least cut through the ground under the birdcage. Stuff like that sometimes really makes immersion into the story a little difficult.

Zoro says a lot of things. I doubt that he can cut, say, seastone at the moment. I mean, he said that he could cut anything right before cutting regular stone, which he could already do before. That was a weird time to brag.

And the strings do go through the ground, as seen by how the rocks at the border of the country were seemingly pierced by them.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Mr.:

I kinda forgot that Barto's barriers had their own forward momentum if chosen to by Barto (such as against Elizabello).

The fact that Barto's barrier can be pushed back by the birdcage is certainly questionable considering that the King's punch didn't budge it an inch (nor Gladius's massive explosions), in addition to Barto's ability to thrust if forward. In the end, we can only surmise the following:

Birdcage movement > barrier + forward acceleration > King's punch.

Which is pretty freaking insane. And why it's best not to think to much on these sorts of things.

Well, the Birdcage is much bigger than the King Punch. Barto himself could not defend against Pica's punch.

sabinis

Gamma Knife weakened Doffy far less than what was done after it. Thats very easy to see.
Mingo after healing himself was capable of keeping up with Luffy and even avoided getting hit by Eagle Bazooka. For me, as strong as Gamma Knife was, Doflamingos "healing" brought him back very very close to his full power.

Luffys Leo Bazooka did so much damage because it most likely added wounds and cracks on top of what was already wounded and cracked. Even patching it together didnt helped Doflamingo that much because he seems to be having hard time just walking around.

I wonder if Doflamingo will turn into red pudding with glasses on top when his power stops working and all of his wounds open :wassat:

Torao

@King:

Well, the Birdcage is much bigger than the King Punch. Barto himself could not defend against Pica's punch. The problem is not force, but rather size.

And those strings can push a building that is roughly the same size as Pica's giant golem form anyway.

problem with picas fist was probably that he could've stopped a too small area and that him and the barrier would've dived in picas fist like a bullet + crumbling stones would fall from above in that case on top of them or something like that.

it seems weird to me that it isnt immovable like in the colloseum, this would seem like barto also has to train the force of resistance his barrier can deliver.

but its somehow true that it seems like bartos barrier is up against one third of the whole birdcage.
still its ridiciously overpowered now in force and not just durability too…

also it would mean that his barrier would lose to like 20-50 tontattas pushing against it, no?

King Cannon

@Torao:

problem with picas fist was probably that he could've stopped a too small area and that him and the barrier would've dived in picas fist like a bullet + crumbling stones would fall from above in that case on top of them or something like that.

it seems weird to me that it isnt immovable like in the colloseum, this would seem like barto also has to train the force of resistance his barrier can deliver.

but its somehow true that it seems like bartos barrier is up against one third of the whole birdcage.
still its ridiciously overpowered now in force and not just durability too…

also it would mean that his barrier would lose to like 20-50 tontattas pushing against it, no?

One third is too kind. Even a barrier that is bigger than Hajrudin is still relatively small.

andy

@King:

One third is too kind. Even a barrier that is bigger than Hajrudin is still relatively small.

Yep, looking at the map pics bart barrier does not even cover 1\50th of the bird cage.
And that number most likely wrong looking at the size of the cage when marsherry flying over it .

Torao

@King:

One third is too kind. Even a barrier that is bigger than Hajrudin is still relatively small.

@andy:

Yep, looking at the map pics bart barrier does not even cover 1\50th of the bird cage.
And that number most likely wrong looking at the size of the cage when marsherry flying over it .

i meant 1/3 because the whole force of the cage is divided to those 3 points where they are pushing against it, if not the cage would still contract everywhere else
i assumed it is evenly distributed

LuffydaPirateKing

to those saying puffy would be dead without allies, thats a very closed minded way tot think. If you take away luffys allies you also have to take away mingo's allies and everyone else puffy had to fight like Don. If it was just Luffy vs DD 1v1 no other people involved, Luffy would've been able to stay in G4 much longer. Think about how much haki puffy had already used. No shit he reached his limit in just couple minutes, he had been using haki for like an hour(no idea the time just guessing)? Doffy couldn't do shit to Luffy when he was in G4 and thats not bc of the gamma knife. G4 Luffy is just plain and simple stronger then anything we've seen mingo use. So yes without the gladiators and sabo puffy would've died. Without WB's crew's help in Marineford he would've died too. Idk why you would want to just randomly take away his crew and other allies and have Luffy solo Mingo's whole crew. Thats the stupidest thing I've heard on here.

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Autocorrect always screwing me o well know what i mean

airy-0

@Riddler:

Thank you. The cliffhanger last chapter was basically "the Birdcage will kill everybody before Luffy can recover and finish off Doflamingo, so the Birdcage has to be slowed down somehow". And now everybody is pissed that we get a chapter about the Birdcage being slowed down somehow oO Bunch of weirdos. I think its really just arc fatigue. The arc has gone on so long that people become restless when they get a chapter like this where not that much happens. But I think this will be pretty effective once you can read the arc as a whole. A chapter where everybody comes together to put their last strength into giving Luffy enough time to finish the main villain off. Its really classic One Piece. Seriously, would you guys really rather see Doflamingo, one of the most build-up villains in the whole story, be defeated by random gladiators than by Luffy just to change things up? Yeah, I`m sure his beatdown would be much more effective and satisfying if it were delivered by Don Chinjao or something.

Yeah, it's just couple chapters that aren't too effective when reading weekly, but when read together is probably a way better idea.