When this arc started, I did not think it would end up being about dancing with the monkey king so you can drink up his ball sweat
but
here we are
When this arc started, I did not think it would end up being about dancing with the monkey king so you can drink up his ball sweat
but
here we are
Purple hermit why are you orange?
some of the monkey moves on the murals are damn hilarious. I wish shima would draw the 4hk doing them all. God how I wish.
I love the fact Coco's poison dolls are set in advance and are not created instantly when things get rough.
But wait, didn't Coco create poison dolls in one-tenth of a second for himself (legs) and Zebra the first time Bambina "attacked" them? Am I missing something here? Coco only knew Bambina's movements as the attack was happening, thanks to his divination and memories of the murals, but he still acted instantaneously.
[hide][/hide]…so Coco can pretty much create them...instantly. 1/10 of a second is pretty fast. I'm not saying he can do this all the time because it seems this was an exception(al) case but regardless he still can create those dolls pretty fast in harrowing situations.
Also, hahaha, he's trying tom court you all. RUN!
...or it's just a friendly dance.
But wait, didn't Coco create poison dolls in one-tenth of a second for himself (legs) and Zebra the first time Bambina "attacked" them? Am I missing something here? Coco only knew Bambina's movements as the attack was happening, thanks to his divination and memories of the murals, but he still acted instantaneously.
[hide]http://i57.tinypic.com/2mpzb7l.png[/hide]…so Coco can pretty much create them...instantly. 1/10 of a second is pretty fast. I'm not saying he can do this all the time because it seems this was an exception(al) case but regardless he still can create those dolls pretty fast in harrowing situations.
Also, hahaha, he's trying tom court you all. RUN!
...or it's just a friendly dance.
He had created Zebra's doll in advance. Presumably because he saw the shadow of death on him. He only reacted instantly to the "death" of his legs, and even so he claimed that he was only able to react that fast because he saw the murals, which helped him predict it.
He had created Zebra's doll in advance. Presumably because he saw the shadow of death on him. He only reacted instantly to the "death" of his legs, and even so he claimed that he was only able to react that fast because he saw the murals, which helped him predict it.
I don't know how I missed Zebra's clone thing. That was indeed created in advance.
As for the legs though, yeah, I already pointed out the murals helped him react but he still created those legs in quick fashion. I'm pointing out Coco has that ability to create a poison substitution really quickly. In that space of one-tenth of a second while Bambina was "attacking" Coco remembered the murals and created those poison legs. He might have had help but he still reacted in 1/10 of a second.
Now legs are obviously not an entire body so it remains to be seen how quickly he could create an entire Poison Doll but what happed was still very impressive speed wise and if he did it once he could definitely do it again as he gets better…in future battles. That could turn into a quick annoyance unless used sparingly and wisely.
Btw guys, 2 more chapters and the arc will be as long as the AIR arc. And there is no way it will be finished in under 5 chapters. I think everyones fear (mine included) that Shima is rushing the story is gone now.
Btw guys, 2 more chapters and the arc will be as long as the AIR arc. And there is no way it will be finished in under 5 chapters. I think everyones fear (mine included) that Shima is rushing the story is gone now.
The only thing that saddens me is how we were told how in this continent everything was super big and there were lots and lots of species and there could have been some adventure before the main fight (like it used to be in other arcs). But we got so little of that in the "largest continent in gourmet world", and pretty much know almost nothing about it
The only thing that saddens me is how we were told how in this continent everything was super big and there were lots and lots of species and there could have been some adventure before the main fight (like it used to be in other arcs). But we got so little of that in the "largest continent in gourmet world", and pretty much know almost nothing about it
Yes, thats true. Maybe we will see more of it after they obtained Pair and have a feast together.
The only thing that saddens me is how we were told how in this continent everything was super big and there were lots and lots of species and there could have been some adventure before the main fight (like it used to be in other arcs). But we got so little of that in the "largest continent in gourmet world", and pretty much know almost nothing about it
It's the second largest, actually. And the reason they couldn't take it all in and explore is because Komatsu's life is on borrowed time. They are there to save a comrade, not go on adventures.
It's the second largest, actually. And the reason they couldn't take it all in and explore is because Komatsu is on borrowed time. They are there to save a comrade, not go on adventures.
Denshark is really fast considering only 4-6 days have passed since they arrived in Area 7!
Rereading PAIR arc and it just occured to me that Kaka IS the 'sleeping king' (or so i remember) of the gourmet pyramid…..
And now all her actions can be read differenrly from before.
So who wants to bet on when blue will come out to troll kaka before getting forced away again.
It's the second largest, actually. And the reason they couldn't take it all in and explore is because Komatsu's life is on borrowed time. They are there to save a comrade, not go on adventures.
This may have been a plot device, an excuse to not explore the continent because the writer didn't really want to. Like that huge cave complex in the AIR arc, all tease but no delivery. If it turns out Teppei had actual good reasons for doing what he did and the plot required Komatsu to be in critical danger then OK.
But I won't anticipate some grand adventure on the other continents either. If it comes I'll love it but not gonna hope for it again.
Why would they go off on side adventures when they are basically in a race to get Acacia's full course in time for the Gourmet eclipse and for god? Not to mention Komatsu's critical condition in regards to this arc.
And what adventures would they be? There's basically no humans in the Gourmet World so the human element is immediately severely limited from the get go and so we are left with adventures regarding certain ingredients in nature and monsters, but how can those not pale in comparison to the hunting of Acacia's ingredients and the 8 kings?
Why would they go off on side adventures when they are basically in a race to get Acacia's full course in time for the Gourmet eclipse and for god? Not to mention Komatsu's critical condition in regards to this arc.
And what adventures would they be? There's basically no humans in the Gourmet World so the human element is immediately severely limited from the get go and so we are left with adventures regarding certain ingredients in nature and monsters, but how can those not pale in comparison to the hunting of Acacia's ingredients and the 8 kings?
Because we are teased about it, and then see so little of it. It doesnt help the fact that Komatsu is put in "danger" when we know he will be fine after all. There are just lots of excuses all around to not show the massive world that we are presented with. In the Air arc even one chapter for the complex labyrinth would have been fun, instead of just being reduced to "we got out with food luck". Compare it to Ice Hell where we got to see the place for some time, or even to the Sky garden, or the Prison. What is happening now really feels like what the pyramid was: MASSIVE location reduced to few rooms and a fight, it doesnt live up to the hype we got from the illustrations of it (and not just fans speculation that didnt meet the expectations).
In the Air arc we had some adventure before reaching the battle with Heracles, and that was VERY cool, but in the following arc excuse after excuse piled up to fight Bambina as soon as possible, only to be defeated and create fake hype with the use of poison dolls at the end of it. Then we got Enbu training in one place instead of using that as an occasion to do some adventure while training. I can only hope that in the following arcs there will be some subplots to experience the GW instead of rushing to the King, because otherwise it will be just a pattern repeated 8 times.
Someone on another forum pointed this out…
One of the 4HK are gonna have to 69 with Bambina. xD
They are trying to eat him, the least he could do is to eat them back.
There's also a Parco Folgore mural. This might end up becoming the most hilarious moment in all Toriko.
They are trying to eat him, the least he could do is to eat them back.
Cant they use the Pacman thing attack Enbu style?
Because we are teased about it, and then see so little of it.
No, not really. Stuff like the continent being huge, or having such a huge maze that they have to go through to get out of there are just stuff thrown in to help build the impressive scale of their world and their capabilities. That's all. They aren't meant as something that they will waste 20 chapters or more getting through.
Compare it to Ice Hell where we got to see the place for some time, or even to the Sky garden, or the Prison
What I see in those arcs is a description of the place and how stuff over there works, various creatures/food from the place, and a straightforward progression to their objective with hardly any time lost. That's how they worked and that's pretty much how these latest arcs also worked. The only difference I see in those arcs compared to the latest ones is a reduction in specific ingredients mentioned from that particular area and reactions of the characters to it, which is not terribly important because they want to progress as quickly as possible.
No, not really. Stuff like the continent being huge, or having such a huge maze that they have to go through to get out of there are just stuff thrown in to help build the impressive scale of their world and their capabilities.
Build up without delivery is the definition of a tease.
If you're you're going to build an impressive maze and display it for the readers, and then proceed skip over it the next chapter with food luck, that's a tease. If you're going to build up a single continent so large that you can fit our entire (real life) Earth inside of it and still have plenty of room left over, and we only spend time on a mountain and some underground ruins…that's a tease. That or it's just lazy writing or that divisive pacing. This is more than just describing some far off lands to build up the world around Toriko and company. Shima is describing the lands they are on right now and then doesn't do much with them. It's like how we got lots of descriptions of the surrounding countries and villages in 'Naruto' but we hardly got any real looks at the actual world in 'Naruto'!
World building is important and Shima has done a pretty good job at it overall, so him not spending more time on environments now isn't that big of a deal. It's pretty obvious he's more concerned about building the creatures in the environments rather than the environments themselves, and that's ok. As long as you have awesome characters like Bambina the disappointment around less world exploration won't be too palpable, and you never know. He might even come back to some of the continents (low chance) or explore them after the end bosses on the continents.
Who knows…
I see it as no different as showing a HUGE piramid and then just having them follow a straightforward path to their objective, just showcasing some creatures/food along the way.
!
By your logic, the Gourmet Pyramid arc didn't deliver because, given the sheer size of the place, they could have had many more adventures exploring the place.
I simply don't follow that logic. Its obvious to me that just like the sheer size of the Gourmet Pyramid is only meant to impress the reader on various levels, not make the characters spend a lot of time searching it and have side-missions, so do the size of this continent and the size/complexity of that maze serve that objective.
I see it as no different as showing a HUGE piramid and then just having them follow a straightforward path to their objective, just showcasing some creatures/food along the way.
Oi, if you don't see the difference between a ahem HUGE pyramid and 840 million square kilometers. Well, I can't help you there.
And surely you're not comparing it to the maze which was basically skipped. At least with the pyramid they went through it and explored some of the space.
By your logic, the Gourmet Pyramid arc didn't deliver because, given the sheer size of the place, they could have had many more adventures exploring the place.
Wrong. By my logic the Gourmet Pyramid did deliver because I was pretty satisfied with the exploration of it relative to its size. Again, you're trying to compare a pyramid to a gigantic land mass. You're comparing a building to a continent, man, and it's not like I'm bent over rows of sheets calculating the percentage of an area explored. I'm just disappointed we didn't see more of the massive land that is Area 7.
I simply don't follow that logic.
I shouldn't have to say that since you got it wrong neither of us follow that logic, but I'll say it anyway.
Its obvious to me that just like the sheer size of the Gourmet Pyramid is only meant to impress the reader on various levels
Yes, the sheer size is meant to impress but if it's "only" meant to impress on a visual or descriptive level and forsakes exploration then you are admitting it's a tease.
"Look how awesome this place is! Alight, that's enough, move along now!"
Again, never had a problem with Gourmet Pyramid. Not the same as an entire continent or what happened with the maze.
not make the characters spend a lot of time searching it and have side-missions, so do the size of this continent and the size/complexity of that maze serve that objective.
Nope, nobody's talking about going off on side missions and getting sidetracked are we? If the objective is to get to Area 8 and you have to go through a maze to get there is the maze a side mission where you can just choose to skip it or is the maze a part of the journey? If the objective is to meet the Monkey King and grab his balls (lololol) and to do that you need to actually get through Area 7…is getting through area 7 a side mission? Yet, you know why we didn't see much of Area 7? You know why we only saw little more than a glimpse of the maze?
…that divisive pacing.
Well, that's 1 of the 3 options I gave but it's more than likely the option. Rushed right on through. Also, before you even might bring it up I know they're on a time limit. As I said already Shima not exploring the environment wasn't that big of a deal. Yeah, I'm disappointed that the author gave us this giant land mass and we won't see much of it but whatever. As long as Bambina keeps entertaining the arc won't be bad. Also, who knows, Shima just might show some more of the place after the whole thing with Bambina is settled.
Oi, if you don't see the difference between a ahem HUGE pyramid and 840 million square kilometers. Well, I can't help you there.
And surely you're not comparing it to the maze which was basically skipped. At least with the pyramid they went through it and explored some of the space.
There's no difference in the story. The pyramid could have been much smaller or just the visible part on top of the sand or just a have a small part below the sand, and nothing significant in the story would change. Nothing at all. Its size its only there to impress us.
The continent is exactly the same. The only difference is that its even bigger. That's all. Its function and how its approached in the story is basically the same.
And what was explored in the pyramid was a infinitely small part of the pyramid, much smaller than even the visible part on top of the sand. Everything else that was merely shown to impress us was skipped. Now, I agree that the maze could have had some pages/panels detailing more what we saw in that page since it would be cool, but I don't see how that's so different from his usual M.O..
Wrong. By my logic the Gourmet Pyramid did deliver because I was pretty satisfied with the exploration of it relative to its size. Again, you're trying to compare a pyramid to a gigantic land mass. You're comparing a building to a continent, man, and it's not like I'm bent over rows of sheets calculating the percentage of an area explored. I'm just disappointed we didn't see more of the massive land that is Area 7.
I don't see how you could have been satisfied when the story would be basically the same if the pyramid's size was only the visible part on top of the sand which means that the page I posted is a complete waste regarding anything else besides impressing us with its size.
You keep insisting that a continent is bigger than a pyramid, but that only means that its even bigger, not that its function and how it was approached in the story is significantly different.
To me that just seems like an inconsistent opinion, you treat one situation differently just because the place is even bigger, not because the approach is that different.
Yes, the sheer size is meant to impress but if it's "only" meant to impress on a visual or descriptive level and forsakes exploration then you are admitting it's a tease.
"Look how awesome this place is! Alight, that's enough, move along now!"
Again, never had a problem with Gourmet Pyramid. Not the same as an entire continent or what happened with the maze.
What I'm saying is that it doesn't make much sense to me to be fine with the previous arcs and not be fine with the latest arcs when the author is doing basically the same.
Its not really a tease, imo, because to me its not a promise of what will happen. When I see the size of the gourmet pyramid, I don't feel like I was promised that they would be exploring the place in full and take a long time to get through it. Its the same regarding this continent. Regarding the maze, like I said, it would have been cool to have a few more pages/panels regarding it but I also don't feel like I was promised that we would be exploring it in full.
If you feel like you were somehow promised, its fine, but I don't share that view, nor do I really understand why you feel you were promised in these latest arcs and not in previous arcs.
Nope, nobody's talking about going off on side missions and getting sidetracked are we? If the objective is to get to Area 8 and you have to go through a maze to get there is the maze a side mission where you can just choose to skip it or is the maze a part of the journey? If the objective is to meet the Monkey King and grab his balls (lololol) and to do that you need to actually get through Area 7…is getting through area 7 a side mission? Yet, you know why we didn't see much of Area 7? You know why we only saw little more than a glimpse of the maze?
Because the author uses the complexity and size of those things as flourish for the arc and to impress us, not to dwell too much on it or spend too much time with it.
Just like he only spent 3 or 4 chapters going through the gourmet pyramid (besides the fighting), and a few more before that on the desert and such, he also doesn't want to spend much more than that going through one of the areas of Gourmet World.
To him, an arc regarding one of the areas of Gourmet World is not actually different than an arc like Gourmet Pyramid and things like the maze are just details of the arc, like some of the traps inside Gourmet Pyramid.
The author hasn't changed at all, imo. The way he does things is basically the same, only the size of the areas and such are much bigger.
[hide]@rereboy:
There's no difference in the story. The pyramid could have been much smaller or just the visible part on top of the sand or just a have a small part below the sand, and nothing significant in the story would change. Nothing at all. Its size its only there to impress us.
I don't have a problem with much of the story itself. The story is what it is. I have a problem with the possibilities left out of the story.
The continent is exactly the same. The only difference is that its even bigger. That's all. Its function and how its approached in the story is basically the same.
Actually, a continent is not exactly the same as a building. It goes beyond just size. A continent holds more creatures, natural environments, and mysteries,. The sheer size isn't just massive but also everything it holds inside of it.
And what was explored in the pyramid was a infinitely small part of the pyramid, much smaller than even the visible part on top of the sand. Everything else that was merely shown to impress us was skipped. Now, I agree that the maze could have had some pages/panels detailing more what we saw in that page since it would be cool, but I don't see how that's so different from his usual M.O..
Indeed, it's not different from his usual M.O. and that's the problem we're talking about here. Just like his fast pacing, as the series progresses it becomes more evident and it doesn't work every time. How it is handled in one scenario can be received differently when it's applied exactly the same way in a different scenario. Just because this is a usual thing doesn't mean it's automatically a good thing. Storytelling doesn't work like that.
If Kishi falls back on Naruto's Talk no Jutsu every time to handle a situation it doesn't mean it's going to receive the same reception from the audience every single time because no matter what you say the setting and mood is different. Naruto's TnJ was well received when he used it on Haku and Zabuza but not so much with 'Cool Guy' Obito for numerous reasons. Shima displaying a big building and exploring only a small part of it was ok for me, but not so much an entire continent.
I don't see how you could have been satisfied when the story would be basically the same if the pyramid's size was only the visible part on top of the sand which means that the page I posted is a complete waste regarding anything else besides impressing us with its size.
Because I wasn't that interested in seeing the rest of the building. I'm more interested in seeing a continent dealt with a little more exploration than a building.
You keep insisting that a continent is bigger than a pyramid, but that only means that its even bigger, not that its function and how it was approached in the story is significantly different.
Again, that's the problem. He approached two completely different environments the same exact way. Just because it worked before doesn't mean it's going to work again. The approach worked well for one and not so well for the other. A continent should inspire more exploration if not for the sheer size of it then for more world building, but again, it's that pacing.
To me that just seems like an inconsistent opinion, you treat one situation differently just because the place is even bigger, not because the approach is that different. What I'm saying is that it doesn't make much sense to me to be fine with the previous arcs and not be fine with the latest arcs when the author is doing basically the same.
See all of the above.
Its not really a tease, imo, because to me its not a promise of what will happen.
It's a show of what could happen and then it not happening.
When I see the size of the gourmet pyramid, I don't feel like I was promised that they would be exploring the place in full and take a long time to get through it. Its the same regarding this continent. Regarding the maze, like I said, it would have been cool to have a few more pages/panels regarding it but I also don't feel like I was promised that we would be exploring it in full.
If you feel like you were somehow promised, its fine, but I don't share that view, nor do I really understand why you feel you were promised in these latest arcs and not in previous arcs.
It's not about a promise. It's about possibilities set when the author goes through the time of describing and displaying things and doesn't follow up with them. If it's just an impression for the sake of impressing people then we're back to square 1 of what we were saying before. It's a tease.
Because the author uses the complexity and size of those things as flourish for the arc and to impress us, not to dwell too much on it or spend too much time with it.
It's never too much if it's handled right. We're talking about intimate world building here. Not going off on some silly training mission and picking flowers.
Just like he only spent 3 or 4 chapters going through the gourmet pyramid (besides the fighting), and a few more before that on the desert and such, he also doesn't want to spend much more than that going through one of the areas of Gourmet World.
To him, an arc regarding one of the areas of Gourmet World is not actually different than an arc like Gourmet Pyramid and things like the maze are just details of the arc, like some of the traps inside Gourmet Pyramid.
Yeah, I know, the pacing. You can blitz through a small space and still explore it to get to where you're going and it's alright to be a little repetitive. Formulaic you might say, but you shouldn't treat every area and arc just the same or else it's going to get stale. You can't keep teasing awesome areas and not exploring those areas because you believe the display was good enough of an impression. It won't be every time.
The author hasn't changed at all, imo. The way he does things is basically the same, only the size of the areas and such are much bigger.
Yeah, I agree. The author hasn't changed at all and that's where the problem lies. I still feel overall Shima has done a good job with environments but it's not always going to be favorable when he does this 'Look how exciting and crazy this place is, ok now move along nothing to see here!'[/hide]
I'm interested to find out exactly who or what Kaka's purpose is
Someone on another forum pointed this out…
http://i.imgur.com/hzNcLD0.png?1
One of the 4HK are gonna have to 69 with Bambina. xD
We still don't know who will be 6 or 9.
No, not really. Stuff like the continent being huge, or having such a huge maze that they have to go through to get out of there are just stuff thrown in to help build the impressive scale of their world and their capabilities. That's all. They aren't meant as something that they will waste 20 chapters or more getting through.
As long as it was entertaining, how would it be a "waste"?
Anyway, as Outerspec has already gotten at, exploring Area 7 more fully need not be distractions or side missions or whatever; they could still traverse the continent in a straight line towards Bambina, and explore it at the same time through obstacles placed in their path. Like, in order to get to the mountain range, they have to cross the Forest of Exploding Giant Pinecones, which also happens to be where an Enbu master happens to live. 4-6 chapters later, they've moved on. Or that time they flew on a giant dandelion, that could easily have made into a grand event; an airborne battle against Enbu Master #3 on giant flying dandelion seeds, which would showcase both ape-combat and the giant-ness of the continent, how cool would that be?
That type of progression is more like what the Regal mammoth arc did, which crammed an incredible amount of encounters with angry creatures and hostile scenery into comparatively short time. It wasn't just a straight jump to the Mammoth itself, and that place is positively microscopic compared to Area 7! When the 4 kings speed across an entire continent heralded specifically for its size it does not bode well for exploration in the future- and it makes the world feel tiny, the exact opposite of the intent!
I was merely explaining what I believe is how the author operates, which is something I believe hasn't changed.
I'm not saying that Toriko and company couldn't have side missions and whatnot and that that stuff couldn't have quality, I'm merely pointing out that the author doesn't use stuff like the size of the continent or the size of the maze as stuff that he wants to really explore. He just uses it as impressive details for the arc, and he doesn't really want to take much longer to get through a gourmet world arc like this latest area than he took to get through previous arcs in the human world.
And his M.O. hasn't really changed, he has always been using details like that, like, for example, the sheer size of the Gourmet Pyramid or the sheer size of the forest where disappearing cuisine was hidden.
For me, this doesn't bother me because I understand that this is his style pretty much from the start. He was never like Oda who would explore everything and take a very long time. And that's ok, really, I like that's its own thing and it has a more rapid pacing, and the impressive details do their job for me.
I have feelings that Kaka in her own and she's not part of that table the empty chair was for pair but she has some goals still unknown
I have feelings that Kaka in her own and she's not part of that table the empty chair was for pair but she has some goals still unknown
I do believe Pair was present in that table.
No he wasn't
[hide]http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/toriko/images/b/b6/GourmetNobles.png/revision/latest?cb=20141028133300[/hide]
Isn't he at the left of the big nitro?
Isn't Pair this guy? http://toriko.wikia.com/wiki/PAIR_(Nitro)
Isn't he at the left of the big nitro?
This is pair
[hide][/hide]
See the difference in hair color and what they wear
Ah come oooon! How the hell can anyone notice such shit details?
My point is we still don't know what Kaka's ambitions are
Chapter 314 spoilers:
!
(From Baidu).
@Galaxy:
Chapter 314 spoilers:
(From Baidu).
! It's a fusion-arm enbu attack! I'm just glad that their appettite monsters haven't been combined, this early.
This seems awful :getlost:
@Galaxy:
Chapter 314 spoilers:
(From Baidu).
! Is that thing coming out of his mouth what I think it is?
No Kaka im disappointed
! So they puched him, not enough context here. Other pic also suggests something is going on, so let's just wait and see.
! Hmmm… seems this is also part of the dance. Obviously Bambina took that last one on purpose, too.
! As if we needed any more proof, Kaka is confirmed blue nitro and evil to the core. And Coco (glorious bastard) has totally set her up.
! Also, who the hell took away the last mural?
! So the failed the dance and decided to punch him? That does not bode well…..or is incidently, of course, the exact thing they had to do.