Got up to the volt battle.
This game is awful, the content is almost entirely recycled from Xillia, the returning characters are poorly added and too prominent and the new sphere system is pants.
I'm done with it, not enjoying the game at all so will leave it at that. Worst Tales game since tempest or legendia
22th january is the jpn release of Zestiria.
So they've changed the battle initiation system, instead of loading into a battle arena battle will just happen on the field without loading.
I imagine it should be similar to how it works in Xenoblade? Sound a like a small change that can do a lot for the gameplay flow.
Also apparently it's more open-world, whatever that means. Lately I've been buying and playing all my Tales games in Japanese but I sort of am tired of having to spend a bit longer than usual reading all the text so I think if it's true that the localization will follow within a few months, I might wait for the English version. I also just really hope it has dual audio like the ToS remaster did.
Also apparently it's more open-world, whatever that means. Lately I've been buying and playing all my Tales games in Japanese but I sort of am tired of having to spend a bit longer than usual reading all the text so I think if it's true that the localization will follow within a few months, I might wait for the English version. I also just really hope it has dual audio like the ToS remaster did.
Totally know what you mean haha,
I kind of don't know what expectations I should have for Tales open world, like I'm not sure about the budget on this but I always had the feeling that all the ps3(last gen titles) had about the same budget. So I'm not sure if open world just means a different philosophy to level design cause in general Tales games never have felt small to me. It's more that their level layouts have been kind of uninspiring
But then I think I've read that Zestiria has been in development for 3 years now so maybe they really did make everything bigger, if that's the case I hope it just isn't more empty square footage but actually filled with stuff.
I hope so as well, more so because importing can be such a hassle sometimes, something nice about handing out money and having the game in your hands or arrive in the same week. It's funny the closer I get to not needing a dictionary at all the closer I think we're getting to having dual audio as standard. And I think we're getting there pretty soon, after that I hope dual text follows quickly.
Even the mighty square has announced that FF Type-0 will have this and with Nintendo being pretty stellar on that front as well at some point even the Tales games have to cave I think.
I think the problem is Tales games are historically treated as an unimportant afterthought by Bamco localization. I don't know if they have changed their minds recently but I hope so.
But then I think I've read that Zestiria has been in development for 3 years now so maybe they really did make everything bigger, if that's the case I hope it just isn't more empty square footage but actually filled with stuff.
Yeah, the increased "scale" in Xillia just made it horribly uninspired and barren. It still kind of disgusts me to think about it. So on-map battles and open world hopefully does NOT mean that.
Also apparently it's more open-world, whatever that means. Lately I've been buying and playing all my Tales games in Japanese but I sort of am tired of having to spend a bit longer than usual reading all the text so I think if it's true that the localization will follow within a few months, I might wait for the English version. I also just really hope it has dual audio like the ToS remaster did.
It probably means it will go back to the Vesperia/Symphonia style rather than the Xillia/Graces style
Ok saw gameplay now and I'm pretty unimpressed.
That whole no load in thing, well…. it still loads in to be honest from what I saw. It's just really fast so no blackscreen transition and the main difference is that there's no battle arena template but the environment around you becomes the battle arena.
It certainly isn't like in Xenoblades like I thought it would be.
So like you see a single enemy on the field -> you engage -> it quick loads super fast -> the enemies multiply from the single enemy if they're a group -> you fight.
From what I've seen it's really big I think the main thing that's noticable is it's scaled more realistically I think? Like in some earlier Tales games the building sizes wouldn't really match up well to the character sizes. Here it does. Like I saw a giant tower thing in the background that was huge compared to the characters or just the trees in relation to the characters.
That said it's just really large. The area that was shown had pretty uninspiring geometry and seemed pretty empty. I just hope if there's not a lot there that they'll have fast travel options like mounts or something.
Let's just hope we're getting a good Tales game I don't think there's much reason to be hyped about anything revolutionary. It seems like it's just going to be the usual Tales. Which is totally fine if it's good :)
http://tvpot.daum.net/v/v0de4VcnThTVaAatfFFDBcr <- footage I watched
Should be good, they've got Tatsuro Udo working on the battle system and there's no TP in sight, so it's possible the fighting will be as fun as Graces.
Graces had fun combat but I honestly don't understand why people think Graces has the best combat system ever. It was cool and different but I'll take TP any day.
Graces had fun combat but I honestly don't understand why people think Graces has the best combat system ever. It was cool and different but I'll take TP any day.
I can only speak for myself, but TP conservation in early game is incredibly boring. A couple of beefy attacks, and bam, you're back to spamming regular attacks or using items to restore. It picks up past mid game where you have enough TP that various restoration techniques allow you to be fairly liberal with artes, but compared to Graces it's night and day, as right from the beginning of the game you can just flow between A and B artes, which for me was a lot more fun. I actually looked forward to battles in Graces (more then I did cutscenes, that's for sure!), and I spent a lot of time in the Colosseum having fun with all the different characters.
For me it's the movement, flash stepping gave the combat a more enjoyable flow for me. And in general the combat speed felt a bit higher than usual, additionally generally when you press something the feedback for it felt more visceral. I don't know it just feels like that this style of combat with the series very well.
But then I can only compare it to Abyss which hat a somewhat bigger emphasis on positioning with those element circles and Vesperia which took a long time to give you enough tools to make the combat feel good.
I don't actually care that much about the resources.
What I don't like about the lack of a TP concept is that it makes dungeons dumb. It no longer matters how long a dungeon is because each battle poses the same threat as the last, and everything essentially resets. No need to conserve TP for strong attacks or heals. As soon as you go into battle you can spam healing artes if you're hurt or go all-out offensive. I found it very wearisome. Xillia tried to fix it with a fusion, and it was a really good idea. Just not very well executed.
Mmh, the reason why I don't really care about TP vs CC systems is because in general resource management in those type of games are too easy to bypass.
The aspect I like about it, is "the pacing yourself" or rather "a need to be strategic" about how you approach a dungeon, I think that aspect is something that's far better done in dungeon crawlers like Etrian Odyssey. In those games it's kind of either you're smart about how you conquer this dungeon or you're going to be stuck grinding forever(although even with being smart you might grind for a fair amount of time:ninja:).
In Tales, Persona and what not, that aspect is kind of made irrelevant because grinding makes you really powerful in a reasonable amount of time so pacing yourself just gets negated by doing a few trips back to heal(which is made even more trivial by the existance of instant dungeon escape items).
Even in Persona where you have to spent a day if you want to replenish before you proceed it doesn't work out that well in my opinion(and they really try by severely limiting MP replenishers).
Having limited resources as a system in place feels pretty half assed if it's too easy to replenish them. At that point it's more just an additional hassle than something that adds more depth to the game for me. (Also not a fan of equipment durability systems, it's like the most uninspiring system to create a gold sink.)
So while I agree with you and certainly would welcome systems that would make approaching dungeons more interesting, I don't feel like TP does a good job of that.
^^ Exactly. Items kill TP as any kind of dungeon difficulty device. Xillia was far easier for me then Graces for example, so having to conserve TP wasn't a limiter in that sense, just meant I needed to keep my gald up and that I had to make do with standard attacks for low level grunts instead of blowing through them with my strongest attacks. It ends up being almost an artificial lengthening of a game and not particularly a fun one.
If you really want to spice them up, have some terrifyingly powerful enemies walking around dungeons like in Etrian Odyssey. Keeps you on your toes in EO when you're near the end of a dungeon and see a red ringed enemy blocking your path! Or have proper puzzles(of course the problem with RPG puzzles is that they generally tend to end up being "pull lever 1 and lever 2 to open door", but they don't have to be).
Mmh, the reason why I don't really care about TP vs CC systems is because in general resource management in those type of games are too easy to bypass.
The aspect I like about it, is "the pacing yourself" or rather "a need to be strategic" about how you approach a dungeon, I think that aspect is something that's far better done in dungeon crawlers like Etrian Odyssey. In those games it's kind of either you're smart about how you conquer this dungeon or you're going to be stuck grinding forever(although even with being smart you might grind for a fair amount of time:ninja:).
In Tales, Persona and what not, that aspect is kind of made irrelevant because grinding makes you really powerful in a reasonable amount of time so pacing yourself just gets negated by doing a few trips back to heal(which is made even more trivial by the existance of instant dungeon escape items).
Even in Persona where you have to spent a day if you want to replenish before you proceed it doesn't work out that well in my opinion(and they really try by severely limiting MP replenishers).Having limited resources as a system in place feels pretty half assed if it's too easy to replenish them. At that point it's more just an additional hassle than something that adds more depth to the game for me. (Also not a fan of equipment durability systems, it's like the most uninspiring system to create a gold sink.)
So while I agree with you and certainly would welcome systems that would make approaching dungeons more interesting, I don't feel like TP does a good job of that.
Yeah but in the end it's up to you how to play an RPG. Grinding and being overpowered is possible in a great majority of RPGs, and let you bypass all strategy in combat entirely. This is true in Graces too. But that's boring as hell, so I don't grind. I don't over-level. And if certain items are so cheap that they bypass the whole system, I tend not to use them. Even if there are ways to abuse the system, the presence of TP still adds that layer of strategy.
I mean, otherwise if you're saying Tales dungeons are pointless anyway, then why even put enemies in them? Just keep the puzzle/exploration aspect and call it a day. Or at the very least, stop enemies from respawning so easily. It irks me to no end that every time I revisit a room I have to re-fight the same stupid-ass monsters. In Graces you don't even have to leave the room. They regenerate before your very eyes after a few seconds. If you remove the endurance element from dungeons, then the enemies shouldn't be there, or shouldn't respawn, to begin with.
Most RPGs (older ones anyone) such as say, Final Fantasy, Breath of Fire, or even pokemon, have a resource management function, in that you don't want to use all your magic spells too early and whatnot… but ultimately all that ever did was make magic users useless, because you never used them properly. What good is it having a great spell if it's so expensive you can only use it once in an entire trip, and at the cost of not having any other magic? Similarly, one use items that couldn't be easily reobtained, end up just sitting in inventory because you don't want to squander them... and suddenly you end up polowing through everything at the final boss.
You eventually start rationalizing of "Well, I could use a cure spell... but I only have so much MP, better use an item instead!" or vice versa, but its so arbitrary that ultimately all it does is keep you from using magic users.
(This is epecially true of characters that have "throw" abilities, and you never want to squander actual useful swords, and buying up a limited stock of throwing stars or arrows or whatever is lame.)
All those games had the option of buying items... and often you didn't because money is tight for a long portion of the game and buying new weapons take priority, but eventually it always reaches the point that you have so much money the only reason NOT to have revives, antidotes, MP restore or what have you is just pure negligence on the user's part, simply getting by on items randomly obtained from drops and chests, and just not bothering to buy stuff.
Yes, there IS some resource management in there, but its mostly just a minor time/money waster, or based entirely on the player being greedy.
Similarly, games that give you weight limits suck too. If I'm in skyrim, I don't want to go throguh the same dwarven ruin 12 times to get the loot lying around that I just can't carry because dwarven stuff is heavy. Andin Dragon Age, eventually you stop bothering with potions or trap items because those just take up weight you know you'll need later. And sometimes they'll have a "dropoff storage" back at home base, but that's lame too.
So in general, I'm all for magic restocking at the end of a battle. And by the same token, health, since otherwise its a random extra step to heal, even though the magic will restock.
A good middleground is to have those things naturally restore slowly. So you aren't fully replenished after every fight, but you aren't super handicapped either.
Dark Souls doesn't give a shit. Carry as much as you want, it doesn't matter unless you have it out.
Yeah but in the end it's up to you how to play an RPG. Grinding and being overpowered is possible in a great majority of RPGs, and let you bypass all strategy in combat entirely. This is true in Graces too. But that's boring as hell, so I don't grind. I don't over-level. And if certain items are so cheap that they bypass the whole system, I tend not to use them. Even if there are ways to abuse the system, the presence of TP still adds that layer of strategy.
I mean, otherwise if you're saying Tales dungeons are pointless anyway, then why even put enemies in them? Just keep the puzzle/exploration aspect and call it a day. Or at the very least, stop enemies from respawning so easily. It irks me to no end that every time I revisit a room I have to re-fight the same stupid-ass monsters. In Graces you don't even have to leave the room. They regenerate before your very eyes after a few seconds. If you remove the endurance element from dungeons, then the enemies shouldn't be there, or shouldn't respawn, to begin with.
Mmmh I actually wasn't fully aware that the system kind of works better when you fit your playstyle around it. I'd still argue that it's kind of flawed if the player needs to do the balancing for it to work but I don't know, I think my mentality really differs on that point. I generally don't do self challenges voluntarily and generally use whatever is at my disposal to succeed.
I have to say though "that Tales dungeons being pointless" wasn't really what I intended to express. It's more that, that strategic element to beating it seems to get lost way too easily with the way I play them, so TP as such a system doesn't limit me enough to do anything for me. As for why have enemies, well for Tales the answer is kind of obvious, I mean the combat is pretty fun I think. That's one of its big draws. Because the combat is pretty fun I actually rarely escape any fights so I don't know if that already counts as excessive grinding, probably?
Like in Etrian Odyssey or even Dark Souls that elements speaks to me way more because the systems there are less prone to being circumvented.
The anime special is out. I'm guessing giving the content it's a take on the first 30 mins or so of the game and not a prequel like the vesperia one was.
The protag, Sorey, seems pretty likeable. Fingers crossed that translates across to the game too.
I'm so ready for a new Tales game this year and I want it to be Zestiria but seriously my gut is telling me to get Hearts Vita or any other Tales game I haven't played yet instead, because Zestiria enhanced will come to PS4 in 2016. That's the feeling I get.
I'm so ready for a new Tales game this year and I want it to be Zestiria but seriously my gut is telling me to get Hearts Vita or any other Tales game I haven't played yet instead, because Zestiria enhanced will come to PS4 in 2016. That's the feeling I get.
I was so underwhelmed by the localization (or lack thereof) on Hearts that I barely got into it. Eventually just gave up. Game itself seemed pretty Tales-by-numbers as well.
Hearts is a rare one where the remake was inferior. For example the new character added actually speaks lines originally spoken by other people in the DS version.
Very odd state of affairs
Yeah it's a bummer, Hearts on the DS was SUCH a pristine little gem, the transition to 3D with the exact same engine/battle as Innocence R really sucked all the charm out of it.
Mmh well it was kind of my first choice because I won't have a frame of reference to compare it to and people say Hearts' story is pretty decent for a Tales game.
But if it sucks that much I guess I should go with Xillia 2 but in that case I kind of don't want to skip the first one despite what I've heard of it.
Or maybe the best option is to take the chance that Zestiria won't come out on PS4 and that they'll start with a new PS4 Tales.
Mmh well it was kind of my first choice because I won't have a frame of reference to compare it to and people say Hearts' story is pretty decent for a Tales game.
But if it sucks that much I guess I should go with Xillia 2 but in that case I kind of don't want to skip the first one despite what I've heard of it.
FWIW, I loved Xillia. And couldn't make it through Xillia 2.
Hang in there, Kierkegaard.
I thought Hearts R was a nice game. I could've done without the random battles, but the battle system itself was pretty good and the characters were enjoyable.
Because my opinions on games generally tend to be at odds with general opinions and reviews (especially because I feel like many people think it's fashionable, or that they'll appear smarter, to search for every little fault in a game instead of just enjoying it - on gamefaqs especially), I try to disregard other opinions and just pick based on my interest alone
FWIW, I loved Xillia. And couldn't make it through Xillia 2.
I'll say this just from watching visuals I'm not in love with Xillia 2 going more modern? Not sure how to describe it. All the outfits are weird in a boring way.
Xillia 2 was so bad in so many ways
Shamelessly reused assets, boring new characters, badly introduced returning characters, an ill conceived debt system, inferior growth system….yeah, wasn't great. First Tales game I just gave up on.
Dammit…when I preordered they said it was likely to arrive on Friday...now Fedex is saying Monday
That's rather different for a tales opening. I don't think it fits the animation but I kind of like the song :D
Shamelessly reused assets, boring new characters, badly introduced returning characters, an ill conceived debt system, inferior growth system….yeah, wasn't great. First Tales game I just gave up on.
Oh, now I am kinda bummed out cause I just bought xilia 1 on sale. Does the first game have a satisfying conclusion at least?^^
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Oh, now I am kinda bummed out cause I just bought xilia 1 on sale. Does the first game have a satisfying conclusion at least?^^
Xillia's ending works fine as a stand-alone. That said, I loved Xillia 2. A lot of people complain about the debt system in particular but I didn't find that it got in the way at all. I just spent tons of money in the shops to keep Nova off my back (instead of giving the money to her), and when I was in an actual debt repayment section to advance the story, I went and killed a Giganto monster and got plenty enough money to pay that section of the debt and advance the story. As a bonus, my gear was always up to date because of this method!
Also, if by the end of the game and after killing all of the Giganto monsters etcetera, the debt is still not 100% paid off, it's very easy to get enough money in one battle with the final boss (with gald increasing food, blue sephira, etc).
You're all playing it wrong :P
After I beat xillia 1, ni no kuni, ff13 etc. I will be able to get xillia 2 probably for cheap anyway, so even if it turns out to not be as good I won't regret it.^^
Small spoiler for Zestiria regarding the chance of an expanded ps4 version at some point later.
! Been hearing that Alisha is getting Flynned/Richarded in that game. People are feeling a PS4 Zestiria F version.
hey it comes with a condom
awwww
hey it comes with a condom
Does this game makes you have…sex?
Well, it looks like Ban-Nam has hit a new low.
I'm about 6 hours in, I think I'm getting close to having all of the mechanics revealed so there's still some room left to affect my opinion but so far this has been thoroughly underwhelming. It's still a mothership Tales game with all the stuff you'd expect - lots of interlocking systems, same old fun battles, skits, you name it - but nothing is really standing out and they committed the mother of all bullshit DLC whoppers.
First off, the game does not look a single bit improved graphically from Xillia. It still has the same engine, maps, bubbles over the people you can talk to, insane pop-in given the low level of environment detail, and weird animation adjustment where if you're more than 20 feet from something it animates with like 4 frames a second. The maps ARE larger than in Xillia, but they don't actually have more detail or stuff in them. They just take longer to run across. This is even more apparent because unlike Xillia and its insanely monster-stuffed maps, there are way too FEW encounters in Zestiria, so you're just running through endless empty plains or dungeons. I've been through three different dungeons, all ruins that looked like palette swaps of each other. Also, there are numerous glaring slowdowns, not just in cutscenes where there's no possible reason it should be having trouble, but also every once in a while during fights if the number of onscreen agents is it at the maximum. For a game that doesn't look very good to begin with, that's embarrassing.
You do have fights within the environment, but they suck. It's not like a free-roaming game where you just run up and start bashing, it still does the wipe and redraw when you touch a monster, you just reappear exactly where you were on the map. Because there's now obstacles, walls and such, the camera gets hung up on everything, there's no benefit or interest to having obstacles within the fight arena, it just fucks everything up and the camera is AWFUL. It's a half-measure toward changing the way you approach battles that serves no benefit, so they should have either gone all the way and let battles happen freely open-world style, or just left it the way it was. The battle system is still all right but it feels less responsive and smooth than Graces, which is what the control scheme is modeled after.
I haven't gotten very far with upgrading/replacing equipment so I am waiting to see if it clicks for me, but so far I don't like it. You get lots of randomized drops with various "skills," of which there are a TON, and the game does a poor job of outlining if something is an improvement or not. They seem to be stuck between wanting you to get better ranks of equipment for better base stats, and wanting you to cover as many skills as possible to provide a variety of benefits. I have no idea if what I'm doing is smart or not, there's just a million choices that all seem arbitrary.
Some things that are interesting takes that I'm enjoying so far: every character has support skills that you can have one active at a time. They serve various purposes like noticing/alerting you to nearby chests or items, auto-healing as you walk, generating potions/gummies/food, and so on. It's a simplistic system but they serve a handy purpose. They also have an AP system where you can equip generic skills that allocate a certain number of your AP (mid-air recover by hitting Square, auto-defend skills that halve your Grade, stuff like that) and as you play further it tells you what you need to do to earn more skills. Leveling up increases your stats and gives you new combat artes but does NOT increase HP, that only happens with special items you get from beating bosses. So there's a bit of a systemic limit to how tough you can be at any point.
More dumb things: there are no item icons, which always bugs me in a JRPG that has tons of items. Way to make your game more bland than before. The cutscenes seem even longer than ever, and I noticed a number of really awkward scenes that a competent game director would have adjusted or removed (that's not exactly new for Tales, but you'd think they would learn how to do this by now). The shops have been consolidated into one type (phew) but each one has its own shop level, and at least the first few shops didn't seem to give me shit when I upgraded them. Not sure what the point is.
But the mother of all fuck-ups, and the reason that people on Amazon JP have managed to lower the review score to 1.5 stars, is the DLC. They apparently pulled a really low-rent Aerith maneuver and kick the main heroine out of the party in the middle of the game - reviews made it sound like it's super hamfisted and awkward. Then, a few days after the release of the game, they announced a DLC pack for 1300 yen that is an epilogue/expansion focused on that character. It's apparently so brazen that as you get to the very last dungeon, the shops start to offer her weapons again, even though she is not in your party. Well they got slammed with bad reviews and have now promised to make the DLC free for a limited time, "out of appreciation for the fans" (fuck you)
It's still a Tales game and I'll keep playing it but what a shitshow. Don't know if the series will recover after this.
That's rather disappointing. I wish they would go back to Synphonia roots.
Seems like a clusterfuck blend of old mechanics. The weapon upgrade stuff sounds like the needlessly-complicated system in Graces with shards that have "qualities". The support skills sound like Symphonia EX skills. But environment bullshit that's worse than Xillia…?
I heard someone say that they "pulled a Flynn" referring to Vesperia, so I guess people can always dream that they'll release a more complete version for PS4 later. I might just have to pass on the game for now regardless.
Even if they DON'T do a PS4 CE remaster, I don't know if I can fully recommend it to anyone but series completionists. Everyone has their favorites because each game is a different iteration on the basic (great) formula, but like every part of this game has been done better by one of the previous games. It doesn't even look better than Xillia (or hell, Vesperia) so you can't rely on the shiny new coat of paint.
But the mother of all fuck-ups, and the reason that people on Amazon JP have managed to lower the review score to 1.5 stars, is the DLC. They apparently pulled a really low-rent Aerith maneuver and kick the main heroine out of the party in the middle of the game - reviews made it sound like it's super hamfisted and awkward. Then, a few days after the release of the game, they announced a DLC pack for 1300 yen that is an epilogue/expansion focused on that character. It's apparently so brazen that as you get to the very last dungeon, the shops start to offer her weapons again, even though she is not in your party. Well they got slammed with bad reviews and have now promised to make the DLC free for a limited time, "out of appreciation for the fans" (fuck you)
It's still a Tales game and I'll keep playing it but what a shitshow. Don't know if the series will recover after this.
I've seen talk from people who have played through who say that it doesn't feel like she was intended to be a big deal. Maybe the PR department just jumped on the character design for the marketing and anime special and it ran away with itself from there?
But then again, knowing bamco's penchant for DLC… :/
My brother started playing it today (still waiting for my copy) and I watched a little bit. The opening theme is super cool. Visually the game looks very similar to Xillia 2 (maybe that's a problem for some but I don't see it as one), the battle system looks pretty Graces-like. It has a Discovery system like Graces too, same sound when you find one and everything.
The blowback on Zestria has plunged the tradein price below 100 yen
That's less then the price of a can of coke. Does make me wonder if the eventual PS4 remake - which I would have assumed to be a dead cert before this game came out - will be cancelled or have the story extensively reworked to give Alisha a larger role. But that will cost money, and Bamco don't put much into tales games to begin with.
Tales of Zestiria could be coming to PC.
I remember hearing about this game before. It's really that underwhelming?
It might not be underwhelming if you've never played a Tales game before and like low-budget JRPGs otherwise, but if you've played pretty much any other Tales game, it is. The only reason I would recommend it to first-timers is so that they can see how much better the older games are when they go backward.
So, I've played Xillia and am in the middle of Xillia 2. I have three words to say about the game. Can you guess what they are?
(I did not make this video but it sums it up rather well)
I've now completed the game. I chose the "normal" ending and looked up the others online to see what I was missing. It was actually pretty amazing throughout the game seeing characters that seemed so one-dimensional and often comical from Xillia 1 put in situations involving the loss of people close to them, something that equates to mass murder, and other crazy crap that seemed out of the depth for any one of them to handle. I thought things were getting real once it first told why you were going in the other dimensions, but man, once you got to Elle's house, that's when things really got real. It was an epic game, and the endings could've been better, but I suppose it all went with the heavy nature of the content (which usually involved just Ludger and other characters almost felt as out of place as Donald Duck for parts of it… no Kingdom Hearts jabs intended)
