@Monkey:
It was heavily suggested that it was Sengoku who set it up.
Where? I believe you, but I'd appreciate evidence
@Monkey:
It was heavily suggested that it was Sengoku who set it up.
Where? I believe you, but I'd appreciate evidence
Where? I believe you, but I'd appreciate evidence
http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/One-Piece/563/9
The plan also involved coordinating the marine forces to focus the attack on Whitebeard's allies, which means Sengoku must have been behind it.
http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/One-Piece/563/9
The plan also involved coordinating the marine forces to focus the attack on Whitebeard's allies, which means Sengoku must have been behind it.
So Akainu is a meathead afterall. That's kind of disappointing, to say the least.
So Akainu is a meathead afterall. That's kind of disappointing, to say the least.
Further evidence, look at the lower left area of the two pages.
http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/One-Piece/563/14
I don't know about that, Sengoku doesn't look like that type of guy to use dirty tricks. Akainu also used his tricks on ace to convince him to stay and fight rather then keep running.
I don't know about that, Sengoku doesn't look like that type of guy to use dirty tricks.
Like turning off the cameras, raising the walls, and having an army of pacifistas blast every one?
Like trapping all the pirates in the center and melting the ice to drown them?
Like moving up the stated execution time up by several hours when it looks like Whitebeard will make it to the platform?
Like threatening to destroy all of Amazon Lilly if Hancock didn't go to the war?
Like setting up the entire trap/challenge with Ace as bait in the first place?
The man forced Garp to stand right there two feet away from his to-be-executed godson, and then made him fight his actual grandson. He did some nasty dirty stuff. He's not evil and is working for the greater good… but he definitely has the gloves off when it comes to pirates.
Like turning off the cameras, raising the walls, and having an army of pacifistas blast every one?
Like trapping all the pirates in the center and melting the ice to drown them?
Like moving up the stated execution time up by several hours when it looks like Whitebeard will make it to the platform?
Like setting up the entire trap/challenge with Ace as bait in the first place?
Sengoku is one conniving son of a gun. That's for sure.
I don't know about that, Sengoku doesn't look like that type of guy to use dirty tricks. Akainu also used his tricks on ace to convince him to stay and fight rather then keep running.
Such brilliant strategies such as "yelling at a guy as he runs away and making fun of his boss".
God you make Darth look like a nuanced genius by comparison.
@Monkey:
Such brilliant strategies such as "yelling at a guy as he runs away and making fun of his boss".
God you make Darth look like a nuanced genius by comparison.
Brilliant enough to get the job done, the execution of Ace, the event everyone was there for and almost killed the main character too.
Brilliant enough to get the job done, the execution of Ace, the event everyone was there for and almost killed the main character too.
Sengoku could have killed Ace at literally any time, up until the point Mr. 3 took place of one of the executioner, the only thing preventing that was the fact that Ace was being used as bait. Aikanu doing it is NOT special, he was just the asshole in the right place at that point.
Don Krieg and Arlong and Crocodile and Lucchi and Moria and Kizaru and Magellan and Hody almost killed Luffy too, what's your point?
Akainu Thought Process
HMMM PIRATE BAD, ME KILL PIRATE, BIG PIRATE NEED DIE, SMALL PIRATES NEED DIE, FIRE PIRATE NEED DIE, FIRE PIRATE HERE, ME KILL HIM, ME GOOD AT JOB HA HA HA
Usopp: My god he's Sun Tzu and Clausewitz combined!!!
Are you guys seriously suggesting that Sakazuki is stupid? The guy's been a pretty succesful Fleet Admiral for two years. That's gotta count for something upstairs.
Might as well claim Moria is the one that took out Oars III.
It might be true, but it ignores the major hits that Kuma and Doflamingo delivered first, and the fact that he was still moving afterwards.
@Light:
Are you guys seriously suggesting that Sakazuki is stupid? The guy's been a pretty succesful Fleet Admiral for two years. That's gotta count for something upstairs.
"Put the base where enemies are going" and "Aggressively kill pirates" isn't really a masterstroke of strategy.
He's been SUCH a successful fleet admiral that
-one of their strongest guys Kuzan fought him for a week, left, and started working with pirates
-replacement admirals are apparently outside recruits rather than actual marines
-Sengoku and Garp both retired rather than work directly with him
-they put Buggy in a position of authority
-Impel Down is in a worse state than it was two years ago (Hannybal is in charge, while the hidden level remains active even though they know it exists now)
-Blackbeard runs unchecked, gaining power
-Dragon runs unchecked, gaining power
-Other three Yonkou who have been in place for years haven't been touched
-not a single one of the supernovas has been touched in two years…Bonney apparently even escaped
-those same pirate groups are now forming alliances
-Fishman Island went wild after Whitebeard's death only to go under the control of another Yonkou rather than the marines
-Punk Hazard went on almost entirely under his watch
-Everything Doflamingo is currently doing
He was only made Fleet Admiral because Sengoku and Garp got fed up with everything.
I'm fairly certain the Elder Stars really didn't want him in charge, but had no other option after Akainu vs. Aokiji ended in Red Dog's favor.
I'm just saying that leading entire Marines probably takes more skill than "lava-punch-pirate". And Jinbe mentioned that they had become much more powerful.
@Light:
I'm just saying that leading entire Marines probably takes more skill than "lava-punch-pirate". And Jinbe mentioned that they had become much more powerful.
Because they set up a new base and took a more aggressive stance.
I'm sure they're doing a great job of getting all the nameless scrubs coming through the gate. But they aren't doing ANYTHING against anyone that's even remotely established or an actual problem.
Or Bart. Or Cavendish. Or a weakend old Chinjao. Hell, has Rayleigh and Shakky even left Sabondy? They know he's hanging around there.
@Monkey:
Clegane keeps the peace under an authoritarian regime. You should be a big fan.
I value authoritarian model of power, for various reasons. Not insanity.
And I fail to see how is raping thirteen year old girls keeping peace.
I value authoritarian model of power, for various reasons. Not insanity.
And I fail to see how is raping thirteen year old girls keeping peace.
Rape is a really common tactic in authoritarian regimes. They get super creative too.
Oh right sorry, not in YOUR authoritarian regime on paper right.
They take the prisoners in the cell and tickle them and spray them with seltzer water.
Because they set up a new base and took a more aggressive stance.
Yes, I remember that, but I doubt Sakazuki could have kept his position for two years if he didn't have some leadership and tactical skill. And switching the base was his idea anyway.
I'm sure they're doing a great job of getting all the nameless scrubs coming through the gate. But they aren't doing ANYTHING against anyone that's even remotely established or an actual problem.
Or Bart. Or Cavendish. Or a weakend old Chinjao. Hell, has Rayleigh and Shakky even left Sabondy? They know he's hanging around there.
Well their role as Luffy's allies would probably suffer if they were dead or in Impel Down.
C'mon now, what are we even arguing about? Sakazuki is hardly a moron.
"Put the base where enemies are going" and "Aggressively kill pirates" isn't really a masterstroke of strategy.
He's been SUCH a successful fleet admiral that
-one of their strongest guys Kuzan fought him for a week, left, and started working with pirates
-replacement admirals are apparently outside recruits rather than actual marines
-Sengoku and Garp both retired rather than work directly with him
-they put Buggy in a position of authority
-Impel Down is in a worse state than it was two years ago (Hannybal is in charge, while the hidden level remains active even though they know it exists now)
-Blackbeard runs unchecked, gaining power
-Dragon runs unchecked, gaining power
-Other three Yonkou who have been in place for years haven't been touched
-not a single one of the supernovas has been touched in two years…Bonney apparently even escaped
-those same pirate groups are now forming alliances
-Fishman Island went wild after Whitebeard's death only to go under the control of another Yonkou rather than the marines
-Punk Hazard went on almost entirely under his watch
-Everything Doflamingo is currently doing
I will point out that it is unfair, mostly because you know everything would be in the exact same state regardless of who was running the show, because Oda can't have important things happen without Straw Hats around.
Hell, look at this arc. We have Admiral of immense power, with beef against Shichibukai, who is apparently of the "good" part on moral scale, who has legitimate power backing him up, and even law on his side, and still does fucking nothing providing asinine explanation one after another solely because Luffy needs to be the one to beat up Flamingo.
Aghr, I need to stop thinking about it before I devolve into another rant.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Monkey:
Rape is a really common tactic in authoritarian regimes. They get super creative too.
Oh right sorry, not in YOUR authoritarian regime on paper right.
They take the prisoners in the cell and tickle them and spray them with seltzer water.
And my country got recently punished for allowing prisoners of the supposed defenders of democracy to be tortured. In secret prisons.
Cause you know, as long as you don't talk about, it is okay. Stamp of approval. True freedom.
The fuck do I bother, your perspective is so narrow that validity of anything else other than your own beliefs is impossible for you to see.
He's been SUCH a successful fleet admiral that
-one of their strongest guys Kuzan fought him for a week, left, and started working with pirates
-replacement admirals are apparently outside recruits rather than actual marines
-Sengoku and Garp both retired rather than work directly with him
-they put Buggy in a position of authority
-Impel Down is in a worse state than it was two years ago (Hannybal is in charge, while the hidden level remains active even though they know it exists now)
-Blackbeard runs unchecked, gaining power
-Dragon runs unchecked, gaining power
-Other three Yonkou who have been in place for years haven't been touched
-not a single one of the supernovas has been touched in two years…Bonney apparently even escaped
-those same pirate groups are now forming alliances
-Fishman Island went wild after Whitebeard's death only to go under the control of another Yonkou rather than the marines
-Punk Hazard went on almost entirely under his watch
-Everything Doflamingo is currently doing
Some of these are required by the plot, and some existed even during Sengoku's time. One can't just expect him to magically destroy everything anti-Government.
Either way I'm just going with Jinbe's words that Marines have become stronger under Sakazuki, and my general impression that military leadership takes some talent. Just saying…
@Light:
Some of these are required by the plot, and some existed even during Sengoku's time. One can't just expect him to magically destroy everything anti-Government.
Oda had ELEVEN supernovas. Not counting Luffy and Zoro… he could have sacrificed ONE of them to the needs of marines needing to be competent. Bonney was even already caught, and we haven't heard from Capone or Urouge at all!
It would have just taken ONE line... "Aikanu has been especially merciless to the Supernovas. Crews have been scattered, and _____ was captured" or "Blackbeard has been gaining power, but Aikanu has kept him from claiming all of Whitebeard's old territory" to give a smidge of credibility.
But nope, still all at large. Every last one of them, and their entire crews, including the captured one and new supernovas like Bart and Cavendish, just get away no problem. Any credit for messing with Yonkou has gone to Supernovas, and Law even became a Warlord.
Oda created that many characters, ONE of them could have been captured or beaten up by the New World. But nope. 100% incompetence rate.
Hell, even Caribou is counted as a Supernova, and he's been a complete whipping boy to everyone that's met him, yet he still gets away scott free in a cover story where he gains a lot of influence and power.
Oda had ELEVEN supernovas. Not counting Luffy and Zoro… he could have sacrificed ONE of them to the needs of marines needing to be competent. Bonney was even already caught, and we haven't heard from Capone or Urouge at all!
It would have just taken ONE line... "Aikanu has been especially merciless to the Supernovas. Crews have been scattered, and _____ was captured" or "Blackbeard has been gaining power, but Aikanu has kept him from claiming all of Whitebeard's old territory" to give a smidge of credibility.
But nope, still all at large. Every last one of them, and their entire crews, including the captured one and new supernovas like Bart and Cavendish, just get away no problem. Any credit for messing with Yonkou has gone to Supernovas, and Law even became a Warlord.
Oda created that many characters, ONE of them could have been captured or beaten up by the New World. But nope. 100% incompetence rate.
Guess that means they all still have a part to play. And Oda isn't the kind of guy to massively hype a character just to have them captured off-screen.
C'mon now. Why isn't "Marines have become much stronger" enough evidence of what Oda wants to say?
Oda had ELEVEN supernovas. Not counting Luffy and Zoro… he could have sacrificed ONE of them to the needs of marines needing to be competent. Bonney was even already caught, and we haven't heard from Capone or Urouge at all!
It would have just taken ONE line... "Aikanu has been especially merciless to the Supernovas. Crews have been scattered, and _____ was captured" or "Blackbeard has been gaining power, but Aikanu has kept him from claiming all of Whitebeard's old territory" to give a smidge of credibility.
But nope, still all at large. Every last one of them, and their entire crews, including the captured one and new supernovas like Bart and Cavendish, just get away no problem. Any credit for messing with Yonkou has gone to Supernovas, and Law even became a Warlord.
Oda created that many characters, ONE of them could have been captured or beaten up by the New World. But nope. 100% incompetence rate.
Hell, even Caribou is counted as a Supernova, and he's been a complete whipping boy to everyone that's met him, yet he still gets away scott free in a cover story where he gains a lot of influence and power.
But that goes for bloody everyone, now, does it? Shanks and Marco done nothing about Blackbeard, Big Mom and Kaido has been unable to deal with any supernovas challenging their reign, the former not even being capable of protecting her own ships.
Basicaly everyone did nothing for two years because Straw Hats were away.
Oda has been hyping marines, which it being intentional hard to believe.
Plus, Oda will not get rid off characters in the story unless it's absolutly necessary. It's always been like that and it's still annoying.
Oda had ELEVEN supernovas. Not counting Luffy and Zoro… he could have sacrificed ONE of them to the needs of marines needing to be competent. Bonney was even already caught, and we haven't heard from Capone or Urouge at all!
It would have just taken ONE line... "Aikanu has been especially merciless to the Supernovas. Crews have been scattered, and _____ was captured" or "Blackbeard has been gaining power, but Aikanu has kept him from claiming all of Whitebeard's old territory" to give a smidge of credibility.
But nope, still all at large. Every last one of them, and their entire crews, including the captured one and new supernovas like Bart and Cavendish, just get away no problem. Any credit for messing with Yonkou has gone to Supernovas, and Law even became a Warlord.
Oda created that many characters, ONE of them could have been captured or beaten up by the New World. But nope. 100% incompetence rate.
Who is going to get the job done when you had to pick admirals from outside and the vice-admirals get defeated with every chance they get? Maybe there' s no talent left in the marines.
At this rate, Akainu has to go himself out there to get anything done.
But that goes for bloody everyone, now, does it? Shanks and Marco done nothing about Blackbeard, Big Mom and Kaido has been unable to deal with any supernovas challenging their reign, the former not even being capable of protecting her own ships.
Are they (Yonkous) giving a shit about the Supernovas now?
If Oda absolutely, positively, could not sacrifice a single named character to the story.
"The new marines have stopped over 1000 pirate crews in the last year, and Aikanu personally took out 300 of them by himself".
Done.
Comparable to Law obtaining 500 pirate hearts. SOMETHING beyond "they have gotten stronger… despite losing three or their strongest admiral level guys."
We haven't heard a single word about Shanks or his activities, or the whereabouts of the former Whitebeard pirates. We don't know what they have or haven't done. We do know what the Marines have failed to do anything about.
And it says something that we've heard about the Supernovas achieving things, (including BB's promotion to yonkou, Kaidou raising an army of beasts, and Big Mom taking Fishman Island as her territory ) but not a single thing of note of the marines.
I suppose there's "The Pacifistas have been upgraded, the ones on Shabondy are fodder now." But thats kind of requisite after we saw Hancock wrecking them in the war, and then them getting one shotted after the timeskip.
Are they (Yonkous) giving a shit about the Supernovas now?
I don't know, are they? Tamago, if I recall correctly, wanted money because of what Kidd did to their ships. That should be enough.
If Oda absolutely, positively, could not sacrifice a single named character to the story.
"Aikanu has personally stopped 300 pirate crews in the last year from entering the new world".
Done.
Comparable to Law obtaining 500 pirate hearts. SOMETHING.
Yeah I admit that Oda could've used some examples of Sakazuki's "reign of terror". But "becoming stronger" still has to count for something no?
If Oda absolutely, positively, could not sacrifice a single named character to the story.
"Aikanu has personally stopped 300 pirate crews in the last year from entering the new world".
Done.
Comparable to Law obtaining 500 pirate hearts. SOMETHING.
Robby, believe me when I say that there is no-one more frustrated about then I, but… allow me to play Devil's Advocat for a moment.
From the realistic point of view: What about consolidation of forces? Consider: Modernization and changes take a long time even with our modern measures. Considering world draft, and the fact that 2/3 of his highest officers never served in the navy before? It would take time to turn them into cohesive fighting force by military standarts.
And considering scale of the changes, if Sakazuki proves to be capable of doing just that, then that would be a substantial achievement in and of itself.
I don't know, are they? Tamago, if I recall correctly, wanted money because of what Kidd did to their ships. That should be enough.
Because some brat named Captain Kid destroyed two of our ship and we are hurting for money right now, she/they are not giving a shit about the Supernovas unlike the Marines who should be giving a shit about every pirate out there.
[hide]![](http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One Piece/651 - The Voice of The New World/16.png)[/hide]
I see Darth is still a dilusional Akainu fanboy as ever
From the realistic point of view: What about consolidation of forces? Consider: Modernization and changes take a long time even with our modern measures. Considering world draft, and the fact that 2/3 of his highest officers never served in the navy before? It would take time to turn them into cohesive fighting force by military standarts.
And considering scale of the changes, if Sakazuki proves to be capable of doing just that, then that would be a substantial achievement in and of itself.
Blackbeard had time to conquer all of Whitebeard's territory and amassed a number of powerful Devil Fruits, Law became a Warlord after taking the hearts of 500 pirates, Kaido built an artificial devil fruit factory and alliance with Doflamingo that created an army of zoans, and Big Mom claimed at least Fishman Island.
It only takes ONE SENTENCE to say they've done something. So far Aikanu in his reign has… fought and exiled another admiral and caused two others to quit... and that was at the start of the timeskip.
And unlike Shanks, who frequently goes years at a time without being brought up, the military has been a matter of discussion several times now.
Blackbeard had time to conquer all of Whitebeard's territory and amassed a number of powerful Devil Fruits, Law became a Warlord after taking the hearts of 500 pirates, Kaido built an artificial devil fruit factory and alliance with Doflamingo that created an army of zoans, and Big Mom claimed at least Fishman Island.
It only takes ONE SENTENCE to say they've done something. So far Aikanu in his reign has… fought and exiled another admiral and caused two others to quit.
And unlike Shanks, who frequently goes years at a time without being brought up, the military has been a matter of discussion several times now.
If you are going to put it like that, then Akainu managed to secure two more Admirals, moved military HQ, got even more forces from the draft, new pacifista models, and all that.
So I'd say he beats at least Kaido. Probably Big Mom as well.
Who knows, maybe Fujitora will actually do something. He might if Luffy gets beaten by Doffy in the first round.
Lack of substantial achievements has been annoying though, especially considering Oda hypes marines every time they are brought up, and then doesn't delivers…
Blackbeard had time to conquer all of Whitebeard's territory and amassed a number of powerful Devil Fruits, Law became a Warlord after taking the hearts of 500 pirates, Kaido built an artificial devil fruit factory and alliance with Doflamingo that created an army of zoans, and Big Mom claimed at least Fishman Island.
It only takes ONE SENTENCE to say they've done something. So far Aikanu in his reign has… fought and exiled another admiral and caused two others to quit... and that was at the start of the timeskip.
And unlike Shanks, who frequently goes years at a time without being brought up, the military has been a matter of discussion several times now.
Don't forget the weapon factory that Caribou ate.
Blackbeard had time to conquer all of Whitebeard's territory and amassed a number of powerful Devil Fruits, Law became a Warlord after taking the hearts of 500 pirates, Kaido built an artificial devil fruit factory and alliance with Doflamingo that created an army of zoans, and Big Mom claimed at least Fishman Island.
It only takes ONE SENTENCE to say they've done something. So far Aikanu in his reign has… fought and exiled another admiral and caused two others to quit... and that was at the start of the timeskip.
And unlike Shanks, who frequently goes years at a time without being brought up, the military has been a matter of discussion several times now.
I believe it was 100 hearts that Law gather to become the shichibukai
http://bato.to/read/_/132967/one-piece_v67_ch659_by_mangarule/20
If you are going to put it like that, then Akainu managed to secure two more Admirals,
SOMEONE was going to be promoted to fill the void, no matter what.
And where does it say that Aikanu picked and personally recruited them? And not say, the Elder Stars?
moved military HQ,
The old one was destroyed. A new one was going to be built anyway. Nothing to do with Aikanu.
got even more forces from the draft,
After Whitebeard was killed, and so the power vacuum and the declaration of One Piece being real created a new rush of pirates. That a draft was needed rather than volunteers lining up at that point…
new pacifista models, and all that.
That's Vegapunk, part of the old administration. Nothing to do with Aikanu.
Sorry but there's still a nagging voice in my head asking: "Is this really what Oda wanted to convey? Did he want to portray Sakazuki, the guy who's motto is "Thorough Justice", the guy who destroyed the evacuation ship because there might have been a criminal on board, the guy who actually managed to kill a named character, as an incompetent pencilpusher?"
We can argue about how well Oda expressed the idea, but I believe that author's intent is the most important perspective on story. The question is, what he wants to say.
SOMEONE was going to be promoted to fill the void, no matter what.
And where does it say that Aikanu picked and personally recruited them? And not say, the Elder Stars?
Well, someone was going to be raised to Shichibukai status no matter what as well, to fill the void, yet you do not use that argument to detract from achievements of Law.
And I would say familiarity between only known new Admiral and Sakazuki is quite telling in the latter regard.
The old one was destroyed. A new one was going to be built anyway. Nothing to do with Aikanu.
It got rebuild. Moving majority forces into New World has everything to do with Akainu.
After Whitebeard was killed by Blackbeard. Had to be good press.
I do not think so, since it was unprecendented.
That's Vegapunk. Nothing to do with Aikanu.
About as much as Ceasar's Smiles with Kaido. Again ,you can't count something that similar as a achievement and then dismiss it in the other force.
For that matter, with that kind of thinking, how would you actually consider something Akainu's forces did a succes? After all, it was his forces, not he himself.
Well, someone was going to be raised to Shichibukai status no matter what as well, to fill the void, yet you do not use that argument to detract from achievements of Law.
We've also seen Law in battle quite a bit then, heard of the hearts he delivered, know his bounty level, and can see he deserves the rank as his abilities do put him on that level.
Meanwhile, we know Buggy is incompetent and doesn't deserve it beyond reputation.
We haven't gotten credentials for the new admirals beyond "they're strong." The new guy tossing aside Zoro is a good start, but he's been pretty ineffective otherwise.
And I would say familiarity between only known new Admiral and Sakazuki is quite telling in the latter regard.
They're both old powerful guys. Aikanu allowing him in doesn't mean he hand picked or asked him, anymore than Shanks and Mihawk once having sparring matches, or Shiki being on friendly terms with Roger and Newgate means anything.
It got rebuild. Moving majority forces into New World has everything to do with Akainu.
Because it had to be rebuilt anyway. If the old base was intact, would he have still ordered the move? WOuld it have had as much priority?
WHAT has been done from that new position of power aside from allowing pirate forces to get even stronger?
About as much as Ceasar's Smiles with Kaido. Again ,you can't count something that similar as a achievement and then dismiss it in the other force.
Shinokuni was four years ago, but Ceaser's secret lab was dormant when Aikanu and Kuzan had their fight on that island. Its major production has been in the last two years.
For that matter, with that kind of thinking, how would you actually consider something Akainu's forces did a succes? After all, it was his forces, not he himself.
To have a single line that actually says what has been accomplished or that can be specifically attributed to Aikanu.
We have a whole list of things pirates, yonkou and revolutionaries have done, all of them expanding their power or having identified and named conflicts where they've been successful. Aikanu… lost a prisoner that was apparently super important in Bonney.
Seriously. Just saying "X number of pirates have been defeated by his forces" would go a long way. "They've gotten stronger" means nothing.
Smoker has gotten stronger but he's gone from a flawless record (except against logias) to losing every fight he's been in.
I don't know about that, Sengoku doesn't look like that type of guy to use dirty tricks. Akainu also used his tricks on ace to convince him to stay and fight rather then keep running.
You know, I'm still certain the guy was simply speaking his mind out loud until Ace turned over. He just got lucky Ace was stupid/sensitive/marty mcfly.
And my country got recently punished for allowing prisoners of the supposed defenders of democracy to be tortured. In secret prisons.
Cause you know, as long as you don't talk about, it is okay. Stamp of approval. True freedom.
The fuck do I bother, your perspective is so narrow that validity of anything else other than your own beliefs is impossible for you to see.
Hahah why are you even complaining about political events you hypocritical little shit.
You're desired utopia wouldn't even allow you to do a damn thing about it in any sense.
Your desired world doesn't involve public disagreement and resistance with government policy.
@Light:
I'm just saying that leading entire Marines probably takes more skill than "lava-punch-pirate". And Jinbe mentioned that they had become much more powerful.
While obviously winning the duel with Kuzan clinched it, Sakazaki's reputation as a skilled fighter and individual commander coupled with his fervor for Absolute Justice did get him job because he will do what he is told and does not flinch from it's dirty business. And rather unsurprisingly, like many similar brutes and zealots who were skilled at commanding a portion of the country's overall forces and had unquestioning loyalty, he's a rather unimpressive supreme commander.
We've also seen Law in battle quite a bit then, heard of the hearts he delivered, know his bounty level, and can see he deserves the rank as his abilities do put him on that level.
Meanwhile, we know Buggy is incompetent and doesn't deserve it beyond reputation.
We haven't gotten credentials for the new admirals beyond "they're strong." The new guy tossing aside Zoro is a good start, but he's been pretty ineffective otherwise.
They're both old powerful guys. Aikanu allowing him in doesn't mean he hand picked or asked him, anymore than Shanks and Mihawk once having sparring matches, or Shiki being on friendly terms with Roger and Newgate means anything.
Because it had to be rebuilt anyway. If the old base was intact, would he have still ordered the move? WOuld it have had as much priority?
WHAT has been done from that new position of power aside from allowing pirate forces to get even stronger?
Shinokuni was four years ago, but Ceaser's secret lab was dormant when Aikanu and Kuzan had their fight on that island. Its major production has been in the last two years.
To have a single line that actually says what has been accomplished or that can be specifically attributed to Aikanu.
We have a whole list of things pirates, yonkou and revolutionaries have done, all of them expanding their power or having identified and named conflicts where they've been successful. Aikanu… lost a prisoner that was apparently super important in Bonney.
Seriously. Just saying "X number of pirates have been defeated by his forces" would go a long way. "They've gotten stronger" means nothing.
Smoker has gotten stronger but he's gone from a flawless record (except against logias) to losing every fight he's been in.
Aghr, Robby, you are making it hard to argue against you when you say things that I agree with.
The only thing I can think of: Oda has plans for named characters, therefore cannot send Navy against them. At he same time, dealing with ordinary pirates is not something that Fleet Admiral would be involved in. We can safely assume that they are doing that casually all the time. Hell, they actually appear to have captured majority of pirates freed from Fishman Island. And so, Oda made him do fuck all in the timeskip.
For what is happening right now and on Punk Hazard… Hmmph. Sorry, I got nothing. I consider treatment marines got in those two arc to be attracious and on contrary to Oda's own writing. I'm not going to even try to defend it.
Luffy can knock 50,000 pirates unconscious by yelling.
If we can't hear about marines getting results in two years with their guns, ships, admirals, pacifistas and such at least comparable to what ONE ROOKIE can do in FIVE SECONDS, well… that's pretty pathetic.
Seriously. Just say "the marines have caught and stopped X number of pirate crews." That would go a long way.
@S.C.:
While obviously winning the duel with Kuzan clinched it, Sakazaki's reputation as a skilled fighter and individual commander coupled with his fervor for Absolute Justice did get him job because he will do what he is told and does not flinch from it's dirty business. And rather unsurprisingly, like many similar brutes and zealots who were skilled at commanding a portion of the country's overall forces and had unquestioning loyalty, he's a rather unimpressive supreme commander.
Pushing away one of the defacto three strongest guys in your army (on the heels of two others retiring) a fight to the death that makes him join forces with a Yonkou IS NOT A POSITIVE.
In any way, shape or form.
The guys had decades of history together. Even with a massive disagreement about who should be the supreme commander and the direction things should go… Diplomacy couldn't have achieved something before they turned it into a week long death match? That's horrendous leadership.
Luffy can knock 50,000 pirates unconscious by yelling.
If we can't hear about marines getting results in two years with their guns, ships, admirals, pacifistas and such at least comparable to what ONE ROOKIE can do in FIVE SECONDS, well… that's pretty pathetic.
Seriously. Just say "the marines have caught and stopped X number of pirate crews." That would go a long way.
Yes, yes it would.
I agree with your points, Robby, I'm just trying to understand why Oda doesn't do anything to the accord. It's been bugging me since timeskip.
On the other hand, rationalisation is a bad thing…
Pushing away one of the defacto three strongest guys in your army (on the heels of two others retiring) a fight to the death that makes him join forces with a Yonkou IS NOT A POSITIVE.
In any way, shape or form.
The guys had decades of history together. Even with a massive disagreement about who should be the supreme commander and the direction things should go… Diplomacy couldn't have achieved something before they turned it into a week long death match? That's horrendous leadership.
Now, this I will disagree with. We know not of the context of what happened during the fight, nor just right after. Oda did say that he was looking forward to drawing it in a SBS, if I recall…
Fight itself if I recall correctly, was not the decision of Akainu, but higher ups. They even made it a fight to a death, which is doubly stupid. I agree that it is a horrendous leadership, but not exactly on Sakazuki's part.
Now, in terms of Kuzan joining forces with Blackbeard (possibly, because we have no confirmation yet)... I look at it this way: After Akainu defeated Aokiji, one would assume a conversation took place.
Result of that conversation is Marine Admiral infiltrating Yonkou crew posing most threat to the World Goverment. Which, considering how Akainu acted during Marineford, is not that far fetched. But that's just my opinion.
The marines have yet to do remarkable shit in the New World. But they are certainly preparing something.
The marines have yet to do remarkable shit in the New World. But they are certainly preparing something.
And one day, maybe even Tashigi does something!
Seriously though. Oda needs to stop hyping, and start delivering.
Now, this I will disagree with. We know not of the context of what happened during the fight, nor just right after. Oda did say that he was looking forward to drawing it in a SBS, if I recall…
We know it permanently changed the environment of the island, and cost Kuzan his leg. There's not much questioning it was an intense, serious fight.
Fight itself if I recall correctly, was not the decision of Akainu, but higher ups. They even made it a fight to a death, which is doubly stupid. I agree that it is a horrendous leadership, but not exactly on Sakazuki's part.
I don't recall it being said that the higher ups demanded it… and if was specifically to be a fight to the death then they both agreed to that? That does not ring any bells or sound right at all.
But I forget things and would be interested to see such a reference.
Now, in terms of Kuzan joining forces with Blackbeard (possibly, because we have no confirmation yet)… I look at it this way: After Akainu defeated Aokiji, one would assume a conversation took place.
Result of that conversation is Marine Admiral infiltrating Yonkou crew posing most threat to the World Goverment. Which, considering how Akainu acted during Marineford, is not that far fetched. But that's just my opinion.
Oh, very little doubt that he's not actually full blown joining with Blackbeard, its not his way. And that his presence is supposed to be kept secret (Smoker isn't supposed to talk about it.) But for it to be yet another coordinated long con?
When we've already got CP9, Kuma, Vergo, and now Corazon already playing the roles of spies in the midst? When thats what Blackbeard himself did in Whitebeard's crew? And as a warlord? When that might be what X Drake is up to? That's playing that same card an awful lot.