Chapter 761: The Ope Ope no Mi

Myu

Wait, so you think Vergo's full body transformation was a DF rather than full body CoA hardening?

There's still never been a single argument for Vergo having a DF that can't be rather easily explained.

The two favourites being (as you outlined) Sanji's throwaway comment and stuff sticking to Vergo's face. The type of things that have happened hundreds of times in the series and had no deeper meaning behind them.

Throwawy comment and quirk.

That's it.

Yes but mine was a light-hearted approach in general. Never was an all-out war with cold-fact arguments. In general yes I would like to remember that tranformation as a cause of DF, not CoA.

And I know all to well that they can be explained easily. So easily that explanations itself are the more likely outcome. My latest comment about him might having a DF was fueled by, disregarding transformation, 1-) Our chats with Vagabond on Facebook 2-) Me wanting to state it wasn't a greatest-stretch material - which you didn't say.

Unfortunately bets with Vagabond made this whole thing into a some kind of 'Perception Differences on One Piece Character Analysis' thing.

Ouroboros

How does turning into metal give you the ability to stick fries and hamburger patties to your face? And t__his is supposedly the decisive evidence proving he has a metal DF. Really? The ability to stick things to your face? Sigh. Making mountains out of molehills at its finest, I must say.

Myu

@Ouroboros:

How does turning into metal give you the ability to stick fries and hamburger patties to your face? And t__his is supposedly the decisive evidence proving he has a metal DF. Really? The ability to stick things to your face? Sigh. Making mountains out of molehills at its finest, I must say.

If that's not directly on Vagabond and on anyone that still has any expectations on him might having a DF. Only Vagabond is saying he has Metal DF. And I'm neutral on his quirks. They are there. If he has DF, it's an explanation that causes or exaggarates it. If he hasn't he is like that. Not that we need DF to explain that kind of quirks. His general hardiness, both mentally and physically I think what gave the idea to Vagabond.

O baba

@Ouroboros:

How does turning into metal give you the ability to stick fries and hamburger patties to your face? And t__his is supposedly the decisive evidence proving he has a metal DF. Really? The ability to stick things to your face? Sigh. Making mountains out of molehills at its finest, I must say.

ok, I'll tell you, people who say Vergo has a DF are just having fun trolling… beware

Ouroboros

@O:

ok, I'll tell you, people who say Vergo has a DF are just having fun trolling… beware

I'm not too sure. I only skimmed through this thread really quickly, but it seems that vagabond genuinely believes his theory.

RobZilla

@Myu:

Yes but mine was a light-hearted approach in general. Never was an all-out war with cold-fact arguments. In general yes I would like to remember that tranformation as a cause of DF, not CoA.

Doffy is on the den den mushi talking about Vergo's Haki being able to negate Law's cutting ability as Vergo does that transfomation though…it'd be really weird to heavily imply something like that then just go in the direction of a random hidden DF being the cause.

@Myu:

And I know all to well that they can be explained easily. So easily that explanations itself are the more likely outcome. My latest comment about him might having a DF was fueled by, disregarding transformation, 1-) Our chats with Vagabond on Facebook 2-) Me wanting to state it wasn't a greatest-stretch material - which you didn't say.

Unfortunately bets with Vagabond made this whole thing into a some kind of 'Perception Differences on One Piece Character Analysis' thing.

Well tbh Vagabond really just hasn't done himself any favours with his zealousness in this regard.

It's been blown way out of proportion because he just won't leave it alone.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Ouroboros:

I'm not too sure. I only skimmed through this thread really quickly, but it seems that vagabond genuinely believes his theory.

Yep, that's the worrying part.

Myu

I only remember talking about this like 60 chapters ago or something but the fact that Vagabond kept it as a hot-topic grew people's hate towards it. It's not that big of a deal anyway. Not relevant in any important way to the story.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RobZilla:

Doffy is on the den den mushi talking about Vergo's Haki being able to negate Law's cutting ability as Vergo does that transfomation though…it'd be really weird to heavily imply something like that then just go in the direction of a random hidden DF being the cause.

That's the part where wishful-thinking makes it's appearance.

RobZilla

@Myu:

That's the part where wishful-thinking makes it's appearance.

Hahaha, fair enough, buddy.

Ouroboros

What Doflamingo said: "His Haki will block out your ability!"

What wishful thinking said: "He's got a DF to counter Law's ability!"

It's a pretty big jump in logic, and a baffling one at that as well. Like, did they subconciously write out the word "haki" and replace it with "DF?" I can't find any other way to ignore something so blantantly thrown in your face.

Razh

@Ouroboros:

How does turning into metal give you the ability to stick fries and hamburger patties to your face? And t__his is supposedly the decisive evidence proving he has a metal DF. Really? The ability to stick things to your face? Sigh. Making mountains out of molehills at its finest, I must say.

Not a decisive evidence, but more like an indication since there are others as well. You'd know that if you did more than just skimming through this thread quickly.

Also, it was electrostatic induction. Might explain the spoon, but it doesn't explain a burger (unless the meat was heavy on iron, haha).

The possibility isn't nearly as crazy as some things that actually happened in manga. Personally, it's funny for me to see how people get riled up about the matter, since I'm good with vagabond and I know him from MH (in fact, I called him an idiot the first day he joined if I remember well, lol). Also, most of the times he's not even the one that brings up the matter, but once you mention it, you can be sure as hell he's going to appear. And then we get another carousel ride with all the stuff from before being repeated again and random people jumping in, then having stuff repeated to them.

I honestly hope the revelation comes soon, whatever the result. Even if my buddy vagabond gets a ban. Nobody made him do it.

Myu

@Ouroboros:

What Doflamingo said: "His Haki will block out your ability!"

What wishful thinking said: "He's got a DF to counter Law's ability!"

It's a pretty big jump in logic, and a baffling one at that as well. Like, did they subconciously write out the word "haki" and replace it with "DF?" I can't find any other way to ignore something so blantantly thrown in your face.

Pal, please. Atleast read my posts if you'd like to argue. I've wrote I don't believe DFs are a means to counter Law's ability if you're tangible. Unless you're up against something like Doffy or Luffy.

I didn't like Vergo having a transformation through CoA. That's it. It's not an even argument. Rather me saying I don't like this Oda please give Vergo a DF to explain this without Haki -since there are some hints that can make it work.

Kaizoku_Ou

The manga section! it's the worst when the main discussions are about whining and bitching, marine idolization or vergo's metallic dick X( power-levels and swordsmen wanking seems like a much better discussion topics in comparison..

Razh

@Kaizoku_Ou:

The manga section! it's the worst when the main discussions are about whining and bitching, marine idolization or vergo's metallic dick X( power-levels and swordsmen wanking seems like a much better discussion topics in comparison..

Where is Darth, btw?

Kaizoku_Ou

^Taking a healthy break and doing everybody a favor. Hopefully his return will be more positive :)

Shadowgreed

@Kaizoku_Ou:

^Taking a healthy break and doing everybody a favor. Hopefully his return will be more positive :)

A favor? have you seen this thread?

Kaizoku_Ou

@Shadowgreed:

A favor? have you seen this thread?

Bits and bites, well it could've been much worse if you add marines and bitching to the mix XD

Shadowgreed

Apparently there was a mistranslation in chapter 681, here's the real content

[hide][/hide]

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Kaizoku_Ou:

Bits and bites, well it could've been much worse if you add marines and bitching to the mix XD

With Marines bitching, this whole grill thing would been put to rest till next week

Sereques

The way Viz Manga translated important parts of this chapter is a bit different from the crap we've read so far. I can't copy the image though

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

Maybe I will just type it ou

Mingo: "And then there was that day years... When the power of OP-OP fruit fell into my grasp"

Mingo: "That's when I was able to make use of Marijoa's tressure to seize true world power"

Law: "?!"

Mingo: "That is how valuable and useful those powers are!! // No only for the personalty switching surgery..."

Mingo: "...But one even greater ability... Do you know what that is?! // IN the hands of a skilled enough user The OP-OP fruit has the ability..."

MIngo: "To fulfill mankind's longest and oldest dream.// Many call it the ultimate Devil fruit for this reason."

Law: "...!! Yes am aware of that, I just have no interest in using it!!"

Law: "The ultimate ability of these powers..."

Law: "Is to give the gift of eternal life. The IMMORTALITY OPERATION!!!"

Law: "But in performing it, the Surgeon loses their own life"

Mingo: "Hee Hee!! Yes that's right!!!"

Mingo: "I had no intention of letting you eat the fruit!! You repaid my patronage with betrayal!!!"

Mingo: "Diamante's sword!! Lao G's martial arts!! Gladius Artillery!!"

Mingo: "We taught you everything you know about battle!!!"

Law: "That's right"

Law: "And the reason am alive now is Cora"

Law: "I am grateful, actually! You gave me the power to take you all down!!!

Mingo: !!!

zeff redleg

@Sereques:

Mingo: "And then there was that day years… When the power of OP-OP fruit fell into my grasp"

Mingo: "That's when I was able to make use of Marijoa's tressure to seize true world power"

This makes it sound like doffy had the df on that particular day and he gained the treasure, whereas aohige said the opposite

Dofla continues, saying if he had the Ope Ope Fruit in his grasp on that fateful day, he could have taken control of the "treasure" and rule over the world!

Shadowgreed

And once again I wanna read the people saying that Cora was the actual user of the OP OP No Mi

Magi

@zeff:

This makes it sound like doffy had the df on that particular day and he gained the treasure, whereas aohige said the opposite

It probably means the day he obtained the fruit's power was the day he was supposed make use of that national treasure to rule the world.

It's sort of like me saying "That day years ago when that slice of pizza fell into my grasp"

"That's when I was able to make use of that pizza to use it to satisfy my hunger, but then…!!"

Law saying that Doffy gave him the power and Doffy saying he had no intention of letting Law get it does imply that it was within Dofla's vicinity.

ICEMAN

Doflamingo probably came up with a bunch of df's, when he high jacked 1 of those CD cargo ship, before becoming a Shichibukai.

Daz

Can we all just give the Vergo-Metal man discussion a break and focus on the REAL important issue here

Namely Lulu being the secret wielder of the Space/Time Portal fruit

I mean, he made his nosehair pop out of a marines nose what more evidence do you need?

Sereques

@Shadowgreed:

And once again I wanna read the people saying that Cora was the actual user of the OP OP No Mi

It's a ridiculous notion in my opinion. It's one of the reasons I posted the text.

moud

how about .. Cora had the fruit , doula asked for his help to take that national treasure but he refused and from there began the conflict , doula ended up kiling him and (assuming he knew the process of which he could restore the df after it's owner's death) he got the fruit , from there either law stole the fruit to use it to avenge cora or he ate it by luck just like luffy …

well yeah it's farfetched but that's what i can think of right now

@Shadowgreed:

And once again I wanna read the people saying that Cora was the actual user of the OP OP No Mi

considering that law knew about the ope ope's ultimate technique someone must've told him about it
also explains why even doflamingo knows about it

RamistaR

@Sereques:

It's a ridiculous notion in my opinion. It's one of the reasons I posted the text.

It's kind of naive if I may. Internauts often use the same evidence to support two opposed ideas. They will just read the text you posted and understand that you're wrong. Even if it was your evidence in the first place.

Shadowgreed

@moud:

considering that law knew about the ope ope's ultimate technique someone must've told him about it

Dofla didn't have the fruit but yet he still knew his potential, so Law having the fruit as child pretty much says that he learnt a lot during his training/life experience about the fruit.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Sereques:

It's a ridiculous notion in my opinion. It's one of the reasons I posted the text.

But like RamistaR said it will be used by both parties as evidence that one is right the other one doesn't understand the context at all.

moud

@Shadowgreed:

Dofla didn't have the fruit but yet he still knew his potential, so Law having the fruit as child pretty much says that he learnt a lot during his training/life experience about the fruit.

how do you train/gain experience for a technique that kills you once you use it
either he saw that technique before or he learnt about it from a previous user

desa

@moud:

considering that law knew about the ope ope's ultimate technique someone must've told him about it
also explains why even doflamingo knows about it

Or he researched what his fruit could do(I wonder why no one ever does that). There's a bunch of people calling it the ultimate devil so the information is out there. Doflamingo who have been searching for it for years because of it's usefulness is more evidence to this option.

King Cannon

Heck, for all we know, the Ope Ope no Mi granting immortality could be common knowledge.

@moud:

how do you train/gain experience for a technique that kills you once you use it
either he saw that technique before or he learnt about it from a previous user

How could he learn from a previous user if the user would be dead after doing the move?

Shadowgreed

@moud:

how do you train/gain experience for a technique that kills you once you use it
either he saw that technique before or he learnt about it from a previous user

What Desa said. On the training process you learn what you're fruit can do and cannot do and through experience you gain knowledge about stuff that you're fruit is able to do but the risk is too high to do it, experience is not only gain through battles

Galaxy 9000

Might as well post the black and white raw as well: http://www.mediafire.com/download/fdvzm2sdgts3hyo/Chapter_761_RAW.rar

moud

@King:

Heck, for all we know, the Ope Ope no Mi granting immortality could be common knowledge.
How could he learn from a previous user if the user would be dead after doing the move?

@desa:

Or he researched what his fruit could do(I wonder why no one ever does that). There's a bunch of people calling it the ultimate devil so the information is out there. Doflamingo who have been searching for it for years because of it's usefulness is more evidence to this option.

well i guess yeah you're right , thinking about it now he could've known via countless ways , it's just that cora being the previous user would explain why both doflamingo and law knew about the ultimate and the regular techniques (specially doflamingo) in one go .. speaking of which i wonder if there were any books out there for dfs that would make things a lot easier

@Shadowgreed:

What Desa said. On the training process you learn what you're fruit can do and cannot do and through experience you gain knowledge about stuff that you're fruit is able to do but the risk is too high to do it, experience is not only gain through battles

maybe but i still think that it won't be possible to gain this knowledge by himself

Lao G

@Galaxy:

Might as well post the black and white raw as well: http://www.mediafire.com/download/fdvzm2sdgts3hyo/Chapter_761_RAW.rar

Is it possible to host it on imgur or photobucket? My computer refuses to download it for some reason.

Shadowgreed

@moud:

well i guess yeah you're right , thinking about it now he could've known via countless ways , it's just that cora being the previous user would explain why both doflamingo and law knew about the ultimate and the regular techniques (specially doflamingo) in one go .. speaking of which i wonder if there were any books out there for dfs that would make things a lot easier

maybe but i still think that it won't be possible to gain this knowledge by himself

He probably learn it through other mean like I said experience is not only gain through battles and there's actually a book about Devil Fruits but we don't know If they explain every aspect about them but we know for a fact that it tells you some aspects of it. Sanji learning about the invisible of Absalom fruit or BB knowing about the Darkness of his fruit

desa

@moud:

well i guess yeah you're right , thinking about it now he could've known via countless ways , it's just that cora being the previous user would explain why both doflamingo and law knew about the ultimate and the regular techniques (specially doflamingo) in one go .. speaking of which i wonder if there were any books out there for dfs that would make things a lot easier

Trebol answered the question when Law is about to finish him: They know the fruit so well because they always wanted it. Just like Blackbeard know what his fruit can do Or like those bunch of guy who consider the OP the ultimate fruit. Or Robi knowing about the goro no mi. The information is out there people simply don't seek for some reason.

As for Law he had 13 years to improve and improve what he can do.

Kaizoku_Ou

lol this turning into something similar to the mera mera thread, good days

Galaxy 9000

@Lao:

Is it possible to host it on imgur or photobucket? My computer refuses to download it for some reason.

Yep.

http://imgur.com/a/LqtVn

vagabond87

@RobZilla:

It's been blown way out of proportion because he just won't leave it alone.

From my point of view you cant stand that I think the way I think about Vergos ability.
I just stick to my point of view having a lot of arguments to show that all wasnt made out of thin air and thats all.

@Razh:

Not a decisive evidence, but more like an indication since there are others as well. You'd know that if you did more than just skimming through this thread quickly.

Also, it was electrostatic induction. Might explain the spoon, but it doesn't explain a burger (unless the meat was heavy on iron, haha).

The possibility isn't nearly as crazy as some things that actually happened in manga. Personally, it's funny for me to see how people get riled up about the matter, since I'm good with vagabond and I know him from MH (in fact, I called him an idiot the first day he joined if I remember well, lol). Also, most of the times he's not even the one that brings up the matter, but once you mention it, you can be sure as hell he's going to appear. And then we get another carousel ride with all the stuff from before being repeated again and random people jumping in, then having stuff repeated to them.

I honestly hope the revelation comes soon, whatever the result. Even if my buddy vagabond gets a ban. Nobody made him do it.

Haha Thanks man

As for food sticking to metal - http://www.scienceofcooking.com/why_food_sticks.htm - covalent bonds and van der Waals forces are explanation for it :ninja:

For me that stuff sticking to Vergos face is as clear indication of his DF ability as we have with Trebol and his snots..
Oda shows it every panel where we have Vergo, if it would be only just a quirk then why to remind about it.
Guy like Dellinger was hinter clearly to be DF user few chapters ago and far less than in Vergos case pointed to it before so Its fun to see how much of a flame it brings as nobody was able to prove me 100% wrong since like far more than a year in so many discussions.

And I must say it would be weird to have crew having

15/16 crewmembers being Devil Fruit user and one guy that is almost in the line with Doflamingo being just a haki beast without Devil Fruit.
Makes no sense to me especially as there is plenty indicators of him having an ability.

RamistaR

@vagabond87:

From my point of view you cant stand that I think the way I think about Vergos ability.
I just stick to my point of view having a lot of arguments to show that all wasnt made out of thin air and thats all.

I think we got this now. No one is going to miraculously forget that it's your prediction if it happens. So maybe you should do the only thing that could prove you're right : waiting for it to happens.
It's cool to have a quirk. But it shouldn't define you. Yet you're pretty much all about this theory. Just try to show more of your personality. Right now you're just the guy behind the Vergo theory.

Why do you never use spoiler tag ?

Icarus

@Kaizoku_Ou:

lol this turning into something similar to the mera mera thread, good days

We may never even see Vergo again except in flashback so it doesnt really matter whether he had a df or not, he was turned into fodder by Law anyway.

Another one of those topics that gets a bit out of control and ends up taking over the forum thread.

Don't get me wrong I liked the Vergo character but he's history, unless Oda brings him back from the dead and puts him back together again.

vagabond87

@RamistaR:

I think we got this now. No one is going to miraculously forget that it's your prediction if it happens. So maybe you should do the only thing that could prove you're right : waiting for it to happens.
It's cool to have a quirk. But it shouldn't define you. Yet you're pretty much all about this theory. Just try to show more of your personality. Right now you're just the guy behind the Vergo theory.

And your point is?

Well I dont mean it in offensive way but you are nice/funny guy behind Pekoms avatar - its just a forum and who REALLY cares about opinion about him/herself here? Its not that most of people here know me beside forum. Either I concentrate negative feedback so to say or I almost dont get any at all, I gotten used to it and sometimes its even fun. If I will win bet with Shadowgreed most of people here will have to get used to me Being nicer in some cases also would not hurt some people as I mostly just reflect what I get.
Who cares what my character is really? Why should I care about opinion of people that so strongly fight against something backed up with some points that cant be simply ignored, with mostly ignoring those points and being sure of their side of a coin being proper one.

Btw I am person behind quite a number of other theories:ninja:

Its boring to write 100% sure predictions or just simply to read everything exactly as it is shown and not to try and see where Oda can do things differently, in new suprising way..

Razh

@Icarus:

We may never even see Vergo again except in flashback so it doesnt really matter whether he had a df or not, he was turned into fodder by Law anyway.

Another one of those topics that gets a bit out of control and ends up taking over the forum thread.

Don't get me wrong I liked the Vergo character but he's history, unless Oda brings him back from the dead and puts him back together again.

I don't know. The fact Vergo and Monet's fate was left to be speculated about makes me wonder why it is so. And since Oda has a history of having his characters survive miraculously, I'd say the chances of Vergo appearing outside of a flashback are pretty high.

Also, I disagree that Vergo was turned into fodder by Law. That word gets used too much these days.

The situation was almost the same as when Luffy was about to punch Lucci with G3 fist and the idiot thought it was a bluff. Classic villain dumbing down. The injury Lucci sustained because of that attack saved Luffy's life when he shrunk.
Here I was supposed to believe Vergo felt safe because he managed to beat up Law while he was still a toddler.
I'm not trying to detract from Law's capability, but would have preferred if Vergo wasn't dumbed down and they had a real fight.

King Cannon

@vagabond87:

From my point of view you cant stand that I think the way I think about Vergos ability.
I just stick to my point of view having a lot of arguments to show that all wasnt made out of thin air and thats all.

Haha Thanks man

As for food sticking to metal - http://www.scienceofcooking.com/why_food_sticks.htm - covalent bonds and van der Waals forces are explanation for it :ninja:

For me that stuff sticking to Vergos face is as clear indication of his DF ability as we have with Trebol and his snots..
Oda shows it every panel where we have Vergo, if it would be only just a quirk then why to remind about it.
Guy like Dellinger was hinter clearly to be DF user few chapters ago and far less than in Vergos case pointed to it before so Its fun to see how much of a flame it brings as nobody was able to prove me 100% wrong since like far more than a year in so many discussions.

And I must say it would be weird to have crew having http://109.imagebam.com/download/QZA5jGRRBYUpsPJhoB8T5w/34939/349383995/167.jpg

15/16 crewmembers being Devil Fruit user and one guy that is almost in the line with Doflamingo being just a haki beast without Devil Fruit.
Makes no sense to me especially as there is plenty indicators of him having an ability.

You know, the whole thing with the spoon only makes sense if people know what covalent bonds and van der Waals forces are. How exactly does Oda intend for children to know the scientific reasoning for Vergo having a spoon sticking to his face?

Also, we don't know if Dellinger is a DF user, or Lao G.

It is just a funny quirk, to show that Vergo is a messy eater.

Shadowgreed

@King:

You know, the whole thing with the spoon only makes sense if people know what covalent bonds and van der Waals forces are. How exactly does Oda intend for children to know the scientific reasoning for Vergo having a spoon sticking to his face?

You're really into this man

King Cannon

@Shadowgreed:

You're really into this man

Well, I just find it funny that he tries to use scientific trivia to explain a quirk just to help his argument.

Icarus

@Razh:

I don't know. The fact Vergo and Monet's fate was left to be speculated about makes me wonder why it is so. And since Oda has a history of having his characters survive miraculously, I'd say the chances of Vergo appearing outside of a flashback are pretty high.

Also, I disagree that Vergo was turned into fodder by Law. That word gets used too much these days.

The situation was almost the same as when Luffy was about to punch Lucci with G3 fist and the idiot thought it was a bluff. Classic villain dumbing down. The injury Lucci sustained because of that attack saved Luffy's life when he shrunk.
Here I was supposed to believe Vergo felt safe because he managed to beat up Law while he was still a toddler.
I'm not trying to detract from Law's capability, but would have preferred if Vergo wasn't dumbed down and they had a real fight.

I would be very happy for Vergo to return, even better if Sanji got a rematch with him as well.

I am not a particular fan of Law but he did a complete nutmeg on Vergo and if he were still alive I would expect Doffy to have unleashed him by now.

He may get a bit part in the flashback perhaps or maybe a short cover story after Jimbei's is finished but that's it.

I am just waiting for Doffy to kill or appear to kill Law or Bellamy, thus setting Luffy off and then the real fight can start.

I think there are far too many characters already active in this arc for Oda to bring in more.

Enough with the foreplay Oda. :)

Shadowgreed

@King:

Well, I just find it funny that he tries to use scientific trivia to explain a quirk just to help his argument.

I understand and we know for a fact that it won't happen, but seeing you guys discuss this thing is painful to read.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Icarus:

I would be very happy for Vergo to return, even better if Sanji got a rematch with him as well.

If Vergo returns, Sanji will be leagues above him, not like he will though

King Cannon

@Shadowgreed:

I understand and we know for a fact that it won't happen, but seeing you guys discuss this thing is painful to read.

I like to imagine that vagabond spent days and days researching minor stuff and seeing all the little details that could help his argument as if Oda was trying to make Vergo's ability a 4th level secret.

Razh

If you guys had any common sense, you wouldn't keep rolling this discussion in circles.