Chapter 756: The 4th level

Punk Hazard was actually more similar to Little Garden.

And it seems people still haven't understood that when subplots are connected to other subplots, transitions are supposed to happen. Dressrosa's subplots don't happen in isolation from each other, so you can't have well-paced chunks when one event is being dependent on another event happening somewhere else.

Example from the latest chapters: Luffy had to stay at Level 3 so that Robin could catch up to him and Rebecca could have her fight at Level 4. That's why Luffy spent so much time at Levels 1 and 2. You couldn't just have Luffy skip one level per chapter.

What do you mean with the bolded?

So Oda should just make characters to have them in the background instead of making them do stuff like, you know, characters?

I would have survived not seeing the Coliseum fighters not run around pica's arm and to the base of the building to have them pass Luffy. All I needed to see was them pass Luffy. I would've been able to fill in the gap of "so much for Luffy's shortcut" on my own.

True Punk Hazard was more similar to Little Garden, but the point remains. I understand that so many subplots need to transition, but the point is there are enough subplots that could have stood as miniature arcs.

Let's say that the Dwarves had actually lived on an island between Dressrosa and Punk Hazard. And let's just say another executive team was there holding their princess captive while the Dwarves grew SAD. We could've resolved the SAD and Dwarf plot lines completely independently of Dressrosa (or even just the Dwarf plot line and then find out Dofla has more than enough SAD on Dressrosa or something…) , then we would have an even further enraged Doffy, more room for the Dwarfs to play a part without feeling forced in and a quicker resolution to two subplots. Then the Strawhats could get to Dressrosa and we'd be able to deal with the Toys-Are-Actually-People/Coliseum stages leading to the face-off.

Dressrosa could have easily been separated out into two shorter, more well paced arcs. Oda probably didn't realize this when writing though, I don't blame him for it, but him jampacking this arc with that many subplots/characters has made the arc feel like its crawling even with a lot happening.

Monquito

Nobody supports my Law vs Corazon's ghost :(

You'll see, it's gonna be like Robin at Ennies Lobby no wanting to face the Buster Call again.

RamistaR

Law vs Vergo's flashback deserves all the hype.

churlyryan

Hey guys, sorry if its already been asked a dozen times, but I can't ever keep track, but is there a break this week? :(

Ussop

@Russbuspower:

How could he ever become PK if he can't even defeat a yonkou by himself? Lol I'm in shock at your thought process. Luffy did not go through two years of training to fight Hody Jones/Second, More Powerful Clown of Series. Luffy went through two years of training to defeat strong adversaries such as more upper tier SB, yonkou, and admirals ofc. Odds of another time skip occurring in this series before an epilogue are slim to none so Luffy is finishing the grand line as he is now. He won't be considered PK if he 2v1s all his opponents along the way. Get Real

Luffy will beat at least 1 yonkou alone, and that's blackbeard, close to the end. Yonkous have titles like 'world's strongest…', it's not like luffy has some other stronger dudes to beat after that.

The difference between luffy from now and EoS strawhat could be the same between beginning of one piece and Marineford Luffy, and doesn't need another time skip.

Tyrano

@churlyryan:

Hey guys, sorry if its already been asked a dozen times, but I can't ever keep track, but is there a break this week? :(

UHHHHHH FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME YESSSSS
nah jokes not many people asked this.

Ouroboros

@Jabra:

I know it's the correct term, but I absolutely hate it nonetheless.

Double issue sounds like something awesome, like a chapter with twice the amount of pages!

Haha, it's so misleading. I remember the very first time I heard that term. I was super excited to read TWO chapters the next release.

Imagine my rage when I found out there was NO chapters that week. I guess that's why it's called the double issue. Double the disapointment, double the displeasure.

King Cannon

@Pinelark:

Let's say that the Dwarves had actually lived on an island between Dressrosa and Punk Hazard. And let's just say another executive team was there holding their princess captive while the Dwarves grew SAD. We could've resolved the SAD and Dwarf plot lines completely independently of Dressrosa (or even just the Dwarf plot line and then find out Dofla has more than enough SAD on Dressrosa or something…) , then we would have an even further enraged Doffy, more room for the Dwarfs to play a part without feeling forced in and a quicker resolution to two subplots. Then the Strawhats could get to Dressrosa and we'd be able to deal with the Toys-Are-Actually-People/Coliseum stages leading to the face-off.

Dressrosa could have easily been separated out into two shorter, more well paced arcs. Oda probably didn't realize this when writing though, I don't blame him for it, but him jampacking this arc with that many subplots/characters has made the arc feel like its crawling even with a lot happening.

Problems with this scenario:

The moment the factory is destroyed, the Straw Hats would have no reason to go to Dressrosa. Seriously, it was the only reason for them to go there in the first place and you just took it away. Remember that Law's plan didn't originally involve a direct confrontation with Doula Mongo.
Hell, Law's ramson plan would never exist too as Doula Mongo not being a Warlord would be unnecessary if Dressrosa didn't have the factory.
Doula Mongo would not allow the factory to be away from his care. At least Caesar was stationed in a well-hidden place and was a Logia with his very own Logia bodyguard. Neither Akainu nor Aokiji noticed him during their 10-day fight.
Dwarves have an important relationship with the Riku Family and the Donquixote Family, the latter which dates back to the Void Century and might play an important role in the world's history.
Dwarves were the only people with an access to the Dressrosa underground, being natural burrowers.
There would be no reason for Doula Mongo to keep the princess captive in that island you speak of, as he needs her "ability" anyway whatever it is.

Straw-Hat Luffy 1

I Think this chapter is very bad

Pinelark

@King:

Problems with this scenario:

1- The moment the factory is destroyed, the Straw Hats would have no reason to go to Dressrosa. Seriously, it was the only reason for them to go there in the first place and you just took it away. Remember that Law's plan didn't originally involve a direct confrontation with Doula Mongo.
2- Hell, Law's ramson plan would never exist too as Doula Mongo not being a Warlord would be unnecessary if Dressrosa didn't have the factory.
3- Doula Mongo would not allow the factory to be away from his care. At least Caesar was stationed in a well-hidden place and was a Logia with his very own Logia bodyguard. Neither Akainu nor Aokiji noticed him during their 10-day fight.
4- Dwarves have an important relationship with the Riku Family and the Donquixote Family, the latter which dates back to the Void Century and might play an important role in the world's history.
5- Dwarves were the only people with an access to the Dressrosa underground, being natural burrowers.
6- There would be no reason for Doula Mongo to keep the princess captive in that island you speak of, as he needs her "ability" anyway whatever it is.

He clearly trusts his subordinates, we've seen that, that's why he trusted leaving Caesar to Monet and Vergo, his primary producer of SAD. He was already cut off from SAD as soon as Punk Hazard happened. I can see him want to keep his operation spread out under employees.

So let me rephrase ( I numbered your concerns and will address them here in, except 5 considering Chopper just highlighted in Fishman Island that he's a great digger.)

Punk Hazard - SAD supply/factory is destroyed, Alliance begins; Law still enacts ransom plan because it's important to try and scare Doflamingo from pursuing them. (2 That was the whole point of the plan in the first place, if Doflamingo gave up being a Warlord, then he'd have to fear the Marines hunting him down, if he didn't he had to fear Kaidou. The ransom plan is still entirely necessary.)

Intermediate Arc - Smile factory destroyed(it can even be well hidden too, remember this intermediate island doesn't even exist yet, we can make it well hidden 3), dwarves introduced and are fleshed out but don't completely outshine the Strawhats, we beat another executive (6that had Mansherry captive to make sure the dwarves work, let's say she doesn't even have a special ability in this version)(3 that Doflamingo would totally trust because overconfidence in his executives is his status quo as of right now), maybe we even get a new nakama, 4 Dwarves mention they have this great relationship with the Island next to them's past Royal Family's. Doflamingo now calls Law and demands he honor his end of the deal to handover Caesar or he will execute Law's crew or something. (1Now Law's crew is introduced and feel relatively important too, yaaaay! Mansherry doesn't have any special abilities because it's not necessary.)

Dressrosa - Oh no, we get to Dressrosa to realize that Marines are there too! Luffy & Law & Co still use disguises but are hopeful the Marines are here for Dofla suddenly quitting. City is still all too happy for having an abdicated king, oh wait, Luffy still gets wound up in Coliseum because Franky, Law still has showdown with Dofla and Fujitora, only now there's no Dwarf/SAD factory subplots to worry about. We only have Luffy in the Coliseum and Law's Crew, the royal family bit can escalate the same way it did.

There, it's a bit rushed right now, but suddenly each arc has only a few plot points, and we keep motivation for the crew to bother with Dressrosa, Dressrosa plays out largely the same only we remove the dwarf/SMILE factory subplots that aren't even being given proper attention right now into their own arc.

RamistaR

The wiki says that Dressrosa and Birdcage are two different arcs since the island is different.:ninja:

senor

both Kanjuuro and momonosuke were found in a trash pit

SpeedoCentaur

@Straw-Hat:

I Think this chapter is very bad

Ya know, you put forth some really solid evidence. You were really, REALLY convincing, but I'm gonna have to disagree.

flandrian15

@RamistaR:

The wiki says that Dressrosa and Birdcage are two different arcs since the island is different.:ninja:

What? Who writes that stuff anyway?

gangonga

What? Who writes that stuff anyway?

Maybe Oda?:ninja:

Dahaka. 0

@RamistaR:

The wiki says that Dressrosa and Birdcage are two different arcs since the island is different.:ninja:

Where?
I don't see anything like that

O baba

I have to say that for me today this arc has a sad meaning

Straw-Hat Luffy 1

@SpeedoCentaur:

Ya know, you put forth some really solid evidence. You were really, REALLY convincing, but I'm gonna have to disagree.

Okey,this is matter of taste

Monquito

@RamistaR:

The wiki says that Dressrosa and Birdcage are two different arcs since the island is different.:ninja:

All hail Wiki!!!!!

Miss Saturday

@flandrian15:

What? Who writes that stuff anyway?

A very well trained porpoise seal who they pay in fresh mackerels.

Nah but really though – the OP Wiki has been complete irrelevant garbage for years.

Katzztar

@flandrian15:

What? Who writes that stuff anyway?

Wiki is open for anyone -and I do mean anyone- to edit and add stuff. I used to contribute there until I noticed the mods are biased against certain characters (like Usopp) and would delete stuff about the character.

The mods often complain about "fans exaggerating Usopp's feats" (in fact one rant was on the Talk page for Usopp) but I never did that.
I had listed what he went through in Water7/Enies Lobby =
"Day 1-getting mugged by Franky Family, then getting hit by one of Franky's metal fists, then fighting Luffy in the evening and getting a punch in the gut.
Daye 2- getting 'interrogated' (beaten up) and then arrested by Rob Lucci, at EL, Usopp effaced Jabra then during Buster call he had to jump off the roof of the Tower of Justice and no one caught him when he fell to the ground, so he had to be carried through the tunnel to the Bridge of Hesitation.
Despite all this, once he reached the bridge, he was able to stand up and continue to fight."

They deleted all that and put in a generic 'Usopp was ruffed up' bullshit. I edited it twice, both times they took it out!
Thing is that they allow entries on Luffy, Sanji & Zoro to be that specific.
That's when I stopped editing over there on a regular basis, so I don't know if they finally let Usopp's entry be left alone or reduced to crap

Torao

@Katzztar:

They deleted all that and put in a generic 'Usopp was ruffed up' bullshit. I edited it twice, both times they took it out!
Thing is that they allow entries on Luffy, Sanji & Zoro to be that specific.
That's when I stopped editing over there on a regular basis, so I don't know if they finally let Usopp's entry be left alone or reduced to crap

was that why you decided to sabotage the wiki by changing doflamingos status to deceased and dividing dressrosa into 2 arcs?:ninja:

dropper

It seems like Dressrosa has more side characters than a typical arc. They are very memorable but it's really taking too long getting to the main cast's story.
Let's hope Oda doesn't disappoint with featuring Bellamy, Sanji with the rest of the crew and of course Law.

Every character that we know will probably only be relevant to this arc has had so much development, it's frustrating, but I think it will be worth the wait.

Katzztar

@Torao:

was that when you made the plan to sabotage the wiki by changing doflamingos status to deceased and dividing dressrosa into 2 arcs?:ninja:

LOL Why should I take all the credit?
They do good enough without me, they do not need my help to make them crappy!

But if I did…. MWAhahahhahahahaha

King Cannon

@Pinelark:

Punk Hazard - SAD supply/factory is destroyed, Alliance begins; Law still enacts ransom plan because it's important to try and scare Doflamingo from pursuing them. (2 That was the whole point of the plan in the first place, if Doflamingo gave up being a Warlord, then he'd have to fear the Marines hunting him down, if he didn't he had to fear Kaidou. The ransom plan is still entirely necessary.)

The ransom was not meant to scare away Doula Mongo from the Straw Hats. It was done to make him leave Dressrosa so that the factory could be taken out.

@Pinelark:

Intermediate Arc - Smile factory destroyed(it can even be well hidden too, remember this intermediate island doesn't even exist yet, we can make it well hidden 3), dwarves introduced and are fleshed out but don't completely outshine the Strawhats, we beat another executive (6that had Mansherry captive to make sure the dwarves work, let's say she doesn't even have a special ability in this version)(3 that Doflamingo would totally trust because overconfidence in his executives is his status quo as of right now), maybe we even get a new nakama, 4 Dwarves mention they have this great relationship with the Island next to them's past Royal Family's. Doflamingo now calls Law and demands he honor his end of the deal to handover Caesar or he will execute Law's crew or something. (1Now Law's crew is introduced and feel relatively important too, yaaaay! Mansherry doesn't have any special abilities because it's not necessary.)

So the relationship between the Dwarves, the Riku Royal Family and the Donquixote Family is never explored.

Remember that the Dwarves went to live in Dressrosa, but became slaves by the Donquixotes. Then they were freed by the Riku Royal Family, who gave them Green Bit as a gift. That backstory wouldn't make sense if Green Bit wasn't connected to Dressrosa.

And how do you know that Mansherry's ability is unnecessary?

Also, you can't just make up a role for the Heart Pirates without knowing about what they're doing at Zou.

@Pinelark:

Dressrosa - Oh no, we get to Dressrosa to realize that Marines are there too! Luffy & Law & Co still use disguises but are hopeful the Marines are here for Dofla suddenly quitting. City is still all too happy for having an abdicated king, oh wait, Luffy still gets wound up in Coliseum because Franky, Law still has showdown with Dofla and Fujitora, only now there's no Dwarf/SAD factory subplots to worry about. We only have Luffy in the Coliseum and Law's Crew, the royal family bit can escalate the same way it did.

Wait, why are the Marines in Dressrosa? For that to happen, Law would need to know that his crew would be in Dressrosa in the first place as Smoker was the one who let the information that the alliance was going to Green Bit/Dressrosa.

@Pinelark:

There, it's a bit rushed right now, but suddenly each arc has only a few plot points, and we keep motivation for the crew to bother with Dressrosa, Dressrosa plays out largely the same only we remove the dwarf/SMILE factory subplots that aren't even being given proper attention right now into their own arc.

You should just wait for all the plot points to be solved.

genocyber

Is there no chapter this week?

zeff redleg

@genocyber:

Is there no chapter this week?

Jump is on break.

Darth

@SpeedoCentaur:

Ya know, you put forth some really solid evidence. You were really, REALLY convincing, but I'm gonna have to disagree.

Basing that on what evidence, exactly?

You know, it's one of those things I find hillarious. People expect justification as for why chapter is bad. But at the same time, no-one ever does that for why chapter is good, beyond the most basic, subjective feelings.

Miss Saturday

@Darth:

no-one ever does that for why chapter is good, beyond the most basic, subjective feelings.

Solid and amusing interactions between characters both old and new. More background and character reveals established. Adequate amount of action and set-up for further action. New information provided. Advancement of the plot in regards to Sugar's awakening and new obstacles. Pretty good cliffhanger.

What more do you want for it to be good? Is the answer gonna be Fujitora and/or Marines?

Darth

@Miss:

Solid and amusing interactions between characters both old and new. More background and character reveals established. Adequate amount of action and set-up for further action. New information provided. Advancement of the plot in regards to Sugar's awakening and new obstacles. Pretty good cliffhanger.

What more do you want for it to be good? Is the answer gonna be Fujitora and/or Marines?

A) I liked the chapter.

B) I was speaking of general tendency among people to require some sort of evidence for chapters lack of quality, while providing none for that quality being there.

C) I agree with you on those accounts, which is why I said that chapter was okay in the first place. Taken on it's own, that is.

dailyfiber

Every chapter serves its own purpose. Some may be dull, but give exposition or serve as transitions into other chapters. I've always found it kind of pointless to rate chapters individually.

It's really hard to objectively say any single chapter lacks quality. Maybe if you rip a chapter out of an arc and simply analyze it for what it is, but then you lack context. If you rate a chapter only based on what came before (because you can't predict how the story will go and we don't have the whole of the arc yet) then your understanding and context is viewed by only what you know/what information we have available.

But yeah I find that every chapter has a point, and a purpose, when it's viewed as one link in the chain that's the story.

RamistaR

@Dahaka.:

Where?
I don't see anything like that

Wiki Joooooke! Yohohohohoho !

Luffyspissed

Is wsj on break this week??

TraumWanderer

@Luffyspissed:

Is wsj on break this week??

Yeah, no jump this week

kirei_lanford

@RamistaR:

Wiki Joooooke! Yohohohohoho !

ur sig pretty much picture my feeling rite now..

P1nk

@dailyfiber:

Every chapter serves its own purpose. Some may be dull, but give exposition or serve as transitions into other chapters. I've always found it kind of pointless to rate chapters individually.

It's really hard to objectively say any single chapter lacks quality. Maybe if you rip a chapter out of an arc and simply analyze it for what it is, but then you lack context. If you rate a chapter only based on what came before (because you can't predict how the story will go and we don't have the whole of the arc yet) then your understanding and context is viewed by only what you know/what information we have available.

But yeah I find that every chapter has a point, and a purpose, when it's viewed as one link in the chain that's the story.

That's a good point. I think someone would be hard-pressed to find a chapter that doesn't add something to the overall story.

Darth

@P1nk:

That's a good point. I think someone would be hard-pressed to find a chapter that doesn't add something to the overall story.

Something is such wonderful word though. Everything is something.

Not even Tite Kubo of Bleach fame is capable of creating chapter that doesn't add something to the overall story. That does not mean however that he writes good stuff.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@dailyfiber:

Every chapter serves its own purpose. Some may be dull, but give exposition or serve as transitions into other chapters. I've always found it kind of pointless to rate chapters individually.

It's really hard to objectively say any single chapter lacks quality. Maybe if you rip a chapter out of an arc and simply analyze it for what it is, but then you lack context. If you rate a chapter only based on what came before (because you can't predict how the story will go and we don't have the whole of the arc yet) then your understanding and context is viewed by only what you know/what information we have available.

But yeah I find that every chapter has a point, and a purpose, when it's viewed as one link in the chain that's the story.

That kills any critique what-so-ever though. There are always things that we can judge, be it pacing, story developments or other.

And the problem with subjective positive opinions of chapters is that they ignore the context most of the time.

For example, I find fifteen chapters of running, exposition and non-progressing fights to be bad precisely because we are fifty chapters into this arc.

King Cannon

@Darth:

That kills any critique what-so-ever though. There are always things that we can judge, be it pacing, story developments or other.

And the problem with subjective positive opinions of chapters is that they ignore the context most of the time.

For example, I find fifteen chapters of running, exposition and non-progressing fights to be bad precisely because we are fifty chapters into this arc.

Because it's perfectly acceptable to enjoy something without taking context into account. Context affecting one's opinions is also a subjective thing.

And even if you take context into account, people still have subjective opinions on the context itself.

RamistaR

I think Oda wants us to know how important it is to run …and to supplex.

asm00200

@Darth:

Something is such wonderful word though. Everything is something.

Not even Tite Kubo of Bleach fame is capable of creating chapter that doesn't add something to the overall story. That does not mean however that he writes good stuff.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

That kills any critique what-so-ever though. There are always things that we can judge, be it pacing, story developments or other.

And the problem with subjective positive opinions of chapters is that they ignore the context most of the time.

For example, I find fifteen chapters of running, exposition and non-progressing fights to be bad precisely because we are fifty chapters into this arc.

This number doesn't mean anything since you don't know how long this arc will be.

And your objectivity is so nice to read every chapter thread compared to the mindless positivity and praise we see from the other ignorant posters.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RamistaR:

I think Oda wants us to know how important it is to run …and to supplex.

Do you remember Chris Benoit? That guy could supplex you all day.

Darth

@asm00200:

This number doesn't mean anything since you don't know how long this arc will be.

So you are saying that what? Pacing is relative to the longevity of the arc, therefore pace of the weekly series can be judge only after the arc has concluded?

Because that can't possibly be true.

@asm00200:

And your objectivity is so nice to read every chapter thread compared to the mindless positivity and praise we see from the other ignorant posters.

Considering the only thing that can be judged objectively are outright technical errors, at least as far as manga is concerned, I doubt I was ever objective in my critique.

RamistaR

@asm00200:

Do you remember Chris Benoit? That guy could supplex you all day.

Yeah! Too bad he decided to bring work at home…:getlost:

Darth

@RamistaR:

I think Oda wants us to know how important it is to run …and to supplex.

Truly, he has beaten this point into us with brutality worthy of most vicious pirates.

I can't complain about supplexing, Senior Pink has been highlight of most chapters he appeared in.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@King:

Because it's perfectly acceptable to enjoy something without taking context into account. Context affecting one's opinions is also a subjective thing.

And even if you take context into account, people still have subjective opinions on the context itself.

Far be it from me to take away the joy of having subjective opinion.

However, opinion doesn't need to be objective to have value… or validity.

RamistaR

But seriously running is good for the health!
Law is always using lazy teleportation. He was done for from the get-go.
Doffy doesn't run, but he takes good care of his upper body by swinging around all day.

asm00200

@Darth:

So you are saying that what? Pacing is relative to the longevity of the arc, therefore pace of the weekly series can be judge only after the arc has concluded?

Because that can't possibly be true.

Umm, isn't that your argument but the other way around?

Considering the only thing that can be judged objectively are outright technical errors, at least as far as manga is concerned, I doubt I was ever objective in my critique.

So, how is your subjective opinion different from others' subjective opinions? Is it because it's criticizing 'Goda' lol?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RamistaR:

Yeah! Too bad he decided to bring work at home…:getlost:

Welp …

Darth

@asm00200:

Umm, isn't that your argument but the other way around?

Nope.

@asm00200:

So, how is your subjective opinion different from others' subjective opinions? Is it because it's criticizing 'Goda' lol?

It is different because it's subjective. Every subjective, by the very definition, differs from other subjective opinions.

And I have never assumed the position of superiority when it comes to sequential art. I argue my points, and I stick to my guns, but I never assumed I was more correct.

Except in the matters of morality. But that stems from my studies, not my personality.