sorry i didn't mean any affence by it :(
now i go and hang my head in shame
sorry i didn't mean any affence by it :(
now i go and hang my head in shame
It's meaningless to talk about it now though, coulda, shoulda, woulda, but I don't agree about the "Usopp can't beat Jyabura" stuff. As I said, it's One Piece, where people turn into semi solid smoke, heal perforated stomachs by eating meat and such other nonsense. Trying to apply logics to it seems meaningless to me.
Well, you're right, Shonen is pretty off the wall stuff. But while everything else may not make sense, common sense regarding fighting and fight mechanics usually make sense.
For example, in Dragonball, people fly around on magic clouds, wield bo-staves that than extend to any length, shoot beams with their feet that can destroy planets, and so on. But, as wacky of that stuff is, Kuririn can never beat Freeza, Tenshinhan can never beat Cell, and so on.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is a better example. You have people that can manipulate fire, psychic photographs, a living ship, a friggin' dog that can manipulate sand, manipulate magnetism, and other incredibly, well, bizarre stuff. But, Polarneff and Kakyoin can never beat Dio, and Fatty can never beat Kira Yoshikage.
The point is, no matter how illogical things seem, when there's something as simple and logical as a huge power difference, some characters will never be able to beat people they can't.
Granted, I believe Usopp could stand a significantly better chance if the area were more open and not so closed in, but right now he has less than a snowball's chance.
@Cap'n:
Well, you're right, Shonen is pretty off the wall stuff. But while everything else may not make sense, common sense regarding fighting and fight mechanics usually make sense.
For example, in Dragonball, people fly around on magic clouds, wield bo-staves that than extend to any length, shoot beams with their feet that can destroy planets, and so on. But, as wacky of that stuff is, Kuririn can never beat Freeza, Tenshinhan can never beat Cell, and so on.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is a better example. You have people that can manipulate fire, psychic photographs, a living ship, a friggin' dog that can manipulate sand, manipulate magnetism, and other incredibly, well, bizarre stuff. But, Polarneff and Kakyoin can never beat Dio, and Fatty can never beat Kira Yoshikage.
The point is, no matter how illogical things seem, when there's something as simple and logical as a huge power difference, some characters will never be able to beat people they can't.
Granted, I believe Usopp could stand a significantly better chance if the area were more open and not so closed in, but right now he has less than a snowball's chance.
Actually, JoJo is not a very good example, since there is almost no 'power difference' between the characters. It's all about creative use of very specific powers. That is, Fatty could have beaten Kira if he didn't panic and used his Stand creatively. Polnareff and Kakyoin… there is one of the rare power differences. Nobody but Jotaro could have beaten Dio, because of his power. But overall, the Dragonball one was a better example.
I meant it was a better example of off the wall, illogical occurences. Dragonball is better when talking about power differences.
@Cap'n:
I meant it was a better example of off the wall, illogical occurences. Dragonball is better when talking about power differences.
Oh. Well, that's true. There is nothing that can out-bizarre JoJo.
Is it me or is Nami reminding anyone else of Luffy? I mean first after the Buster Call announcement she didn't seem to worry and with the dialogue exchange with Franky it's evident that she's relying on luck, something that I would argue is very Luffy like. Also, did anyone find it odd that 10 chapters after Sanji get soap molested out of commission he makes his come back as Usopp gets beaten. I don't know, but I hope that it doesn't take Usopp 10 chapters to recover unless he's totally out. By the way, do any of the SH's even know that Galley-la and the Franky family were beaten?
@Cap'n:
The point is, no matter how illogical things seem, when there's something as simple and logical as a huge power difference, some characters will never be able to beat people they can't.
One could argue that there was a huge power difference between Crocodile, a Logia and experienced, battle-hardened pirate and member of the Shichibukai and Luffy, Paramecia and some teenage brat whose previous feat of arms consisted of kicking a bunch of 20 millions berry worth small fries' asses in East Blue and it didn't stop Oda from using absurd means to have Luffy ending up as the winner (the hole in the stomach, the "I cancel sand powers by bleeding like a stuck pig without losing consciousness lolololo… Isn't blood supposed to what? Coagulate? I don't know what's that.").
My point is, Oda would have wanted to make Usopp kick Jyabura's ass into oblivion, he could have, and I don't think it would have looked any more weird or unbelievable than any previous OP fights.
As for your comparison with DBZ. Well, yeah, DBZ is DBZ and OP is OP. That's not too brilliant and the best I can come up with, but I think that's why a lot of people like OP, because it can stay away from a lot of conventions DBZ created, and I'm not sure it's a good think OP starts to feel like DBZ to the point that such comparisons can be made. What's next, will we learn the D's are an ancient race of extraterrestrial warriors wiped out by a galactic empire nowadays known as the World Government?
End of rant.
@Cap'n:
Well, you're right, Shonen is pretty off the wall stuff. But while everything else may not make sense, common sense regarding fighting and fight mechanics usually make sense.
But you apply common sense to the unknown here. With dials the possibilities are infinite. We know nothing of SogeKings powers yet. It's true that his physical abilities mean nothing compared to Rokushiki, but just like Nami and her Mirage Tenpo, so can SogeKing have an ultimate defense with his impacts or something. (Robin has an ultimate defense, she doesn't need physical abilities at all) And just like I said already, the sunflower star didn't hit Jabura at all, because he used Soru. Therefore we have no idea of SogeKings attack power, to talk about power difference.
@Cap'n:
For example, in Dragonball, people fly around on magic clouds, wield bo-staves that than extend to any length, shoot beams with their feet that can destroy planets, and so on. But, as wacky of that stuff is, Kuririn can never beat Freeza, Tenshinhan can never beat Cell, and so on.
Please for god's sake, don't compare One Piece and DBZ. One Piece is nothing like DBZ, where everyone fights always in the exact same way, without use of any strategies or weapons and where characters, who start out central end up totally useless in the end. In One Piece everyone has his very own unique fighting style with strong points and weaknesses, and Oda has proven in 413 chapters, that he wants the SHs to be all equally strong perfect beings, who can defeat everyone in the end. I mean just look at Nami and Chopper.
Please for god's sake, don't compare One Piece and DBZ. One Piece is nothing like DBZ, where everyone fights always in the exact same way, without use of any strategies or weapons.
I totally disagree, One Piece and DBZ are very much alike. It's just that, One Piece came after DBZ, and it fixes all the flaws that one finds in the series after it is over. Oda watched DBZ most likely and made One Piece this way, a cool shounen anime without all the flaws of DBZ and with all that made it good.
No…
weakling main characters (poor Krillien)
Spotlight hogging (Goku)
Less sexism (every female fighter becomes powerless compared to the main fighters and goes off to have a baby)
Overly long fights
Buts still has:
epic battles
fighting like no one has seen before (DBZ was like this once)
Evil villians gettign their asses kicked
Women hitting men when angry (not that I like this, but I didn't want you to think I forgot it)
And there's probably more I missed.
One could argue that there was a huge power difference between Crocodile, a Logia and experienced, battle-hardened pirate and member of the Shichibukai and Luffy, Paramecia and some teenage brat whose previous feat of arms consisted of kicking a bunch of 20 millions berry worth small fries' asses in East Blue and it didn't stop Oda from using absurd means to have Luffy ending up as the winner (the hole in the stomach, the "I cancel sand powers by bleeding like a stuck pig without losing consciousness lolololo… Isn't blood supposed to what? Coagulate? I don't know what's that.").
The stats don't lie. Luffy lost twice in a row. Obviously, he wasn't going to die, so he just ended up winning. As dumb as you probably thought that was, it would have been plain retarded if Luffy died or just escaped Alabasta without doing what he came to do.
My point is, Oda would have wanted to make Usopp kick Jyabura's ass into oblivion, he could have, and I don't think it would have looked any more weird or unbelievable than any previous OP fights.
Yes, it would have. What kind of enemy would Jabura have been if he didn't beat ass? You can always bet that the critical arc fights will have the characters nailed. Cats fights are an exception, but hardly anyone cares to see them dragged out. Jabura falling for small town tricks and getting burned without using his assassin skill to hit the Screech-built Usopp where
it hurt would have reaked of utter bullshit.
As for your comparison with DBZ. Well, yeah, DBZ is DBZ and OP is OP. That's not too brilliant and the best I can come up with, but I think that's why a lot of people like OP, because it can stay away from a lot of conventions DBZ created, and I'm not sure it's a good think OP starts to feel like DBZ to the point that such comparisons can be made. What's next, will we learn the D's are an ancient race of extraterrestrial warriors wiped out by a galactic empire nowadays known as the World Government?
That could happen and you'd still see "Oda is God" posts.
When we compare it to DBZ, defensive people always say stuff like "No, there are no lasers or super power ups!" Think about it the comparision, not random features of the series. As determined as Luffy, the main character, is, do you think he could have knocked out that enormous sea creature back in the Calm Belt?
Carter was saying there's a limit to nonsense. Kenshin's use of physics and Luffy's use of blood on sand were pretty out there, but there's a difference between that and Luffy suddenly turning into a black hole-shooting candle gun, for example.
weakling main characters (poor Krillien)
Krillien wasn't weak at the beginning. He was Gokus training partner and equally strong. Then came Tenshinhan stronger then Goku and the same with Piccolo. And they all ended up as totally useless side acts in the end, only there for sentimental feel. The SHs on the other hand are all equated members of a group, that stays together till the very end, to fulfil all their dreams.
Please for god's sake, don't compare One Piece and DBZ. One Piece is nothing like DBZ
Sorry, you're wrong.
The Dragonball hate rampant on these board always puzzled me, considering how Dragonball was a HUGE inspiration to Oda. I mean, it's evident in One Piece itself. Luffy is highly similar to Goku; simple, carefree people, with strong wills who always take a stand against someone wronging their friends, and hell, Goku and Luffy are huge eaters and they get healed by chowing down.
@Cap'n:
Sorry, you're wrong.
The Dragonball hate rampant on these board always puzzled me, considering how Dragonball was a HUGE inspiration to Oda. I mean, it's evident in One Piece itself. Luffy is highly similar to Goku; simple, carefree people, with strong wills who always take a stand against someone wronging their friends, and hell, Goku and Luffy are huge eaters and they get healed by chowing down.
And maybe Pokemon was an inspiration to Oda too. But that doesn't mean Luffy would abandon all his best friends over and over again and never gets any stronger. Whether DBZ was an inspiration or not, the basic structures and rules of One Piece are just totally different from DBZ.
Krillien wasn't weak at the beginning. He was Gokus training partner and equally strong. Then came Tenshinhan stronger then Goku and the same with Piccolo. And they all ended up as totally useless side acts in the end, only there for sentimental feel. The SHs on the other hand are all equated members of a group, that stays together till the very end, to fulfil all their dreams.
Yes. My entire last post was meant for someone who has watched all of Dragonball.
Jabura falling for small town tricks and getting burned without using his assassin skill to hit the Screech-built Usopp where
it hurt would have reaked of utter bullshit.
Maybe Ussop could have used a big-time trick to beat him, like Nami's thunder lance or Ussop explosion that he used on Luffy. It's not impossible to write a scenario where Ussop could beat Jyabura while appeasing all the fans that Jyabura has suddenly gained. I mean, Ussop just took a ten finger shigan.
For example, on the "Ussop needs space" thing. Ussop could break the floor with impact or something and change to fight to a larger room in the Enies Lobby.
Of course, moot-point now that Ussop has a low chance of fighting Jyab's now.
And maybe Pokemon was an inspiration to Oda too. But that doesn't mean Luffy would abandon all his best friends over and over again and never gets any stronger. Whether DBZ was an inspiration or not, the basic structures and rules of One Piece are just totally different from DBZ.
Not… really. Welcome to shonen.
The stats don't lie. Luffy lost twice in a row. Obviously, he wasn't going to die, so he just ended up winning. As dumb as you probably thought that was, it would have been plain retarded if Luffy died or just escaped Alabasta without doing what he came to do.
Obviously, Usopp is not going to die either, even after getting shiganned into the stratosphere, so why would it have been any different if he just came back and kicked Jyabura's ass? It wouldn't, but you won't admit that because what's ok for cool, badass characters like Luffy or Zoro isn't a for a geek like Usopp. That's not written anywhere, it's just an opinion, and has certainly f*ck all to do with logics.
Yes, it would have. What kind of enemy would Jabura have been if he didn't beat ass? You can always bet that the critical arc fights will have the characters nailed. Cats fights are an exception, but hardly anyone cares to see them dragged out. Jabura falling for small town tricks and getting burned without using his assassin skill to hit the Screech-built Usopp where
it hurt would have reaked of utter bullshit.
Uh, no, it wouldn't? Did it take anything away from Crocodile's aura of badassery that he made this incredible beginner's mistake, twice, not to nail the living sh*t out of a comatose Luffy with his hook, just to make sure? And again, "Jyabura is too cool to fall for tricks" is not a valid argument.
Carter was saying there's a limit to nonsense.
And I completely disagree with that, again just a matter of personal opinion. I think everything in One Piece reeks of utter bullshit, as you said, and nonsense. Doesn't mean it's not lovable, exciting bullshit and nonsense. Usopp beating Jyabura is no different. And that'll be my last reply on that subject as this debate is going nowhere, as there's no facts to oppose, only mere personal opinions.
Maybe some people should give a read here:
Yes. My entire last post was meant for someone who has watched all of Dragonball.
:laugh: I'm not participating in that flaming.
@onemoment:
Maybe Ussop could have used a big-time trick to beat him, like Nami's thunder lance or Ussop explosion that he used on Luffy. It's not impossible to write a scenario where Ussop could beat Jyabura while appeasing all the fans that Jyabura has suddenly gained.
For example, on the "Ussop needs space" thing. Ussop could break the floor with impact or something and change to fight to a larger room in the Enies Lobby.
Of course, moot-point now that Ussop has a low chance of fighting Jyab's now.
What are you talking about? The fight hasn't even started yet. There will be enough Jabura action with Sanji, Zoro and Kaku, to make every Jabura fan happy, before SogeKing starts his show. And he won't defeat Jabura and Kaku with a "big-time trick" right away. Nami didn't do that either. He'll just do the same damage as Zoro and Sanji. That's when the fight really starts and there'll be still a lot of struggle before the end draws near.:biggrin:
:laugh: I'm not participating in that flaming.
Huh? I meant my post was meant from the viewpoint of someone who had seen all of Dragonball.
? It wouldn't, but you won't admit that because what's ok for cool, badass characters like Luffy or Zoro isn't a for a geek like Usopp.
People have this weird feeling, as if Usopp is some sort of hero standing up for geeks everywhere. Nevermind that. The point is that these guys are veteran fighters, and he isn't. Not because one's "cool."
Uh, no, it wouldn't? Did it take anything away from Crocodile's aura of badassery that he made this incredible beginner's mistake, twice, not to nail the living sh*t out of a comatose Luffy with his hook, just to make sure? And again, "Jyabura is too cool to fall for tricks" is not a valid argument.
Like I said, Luffy is the main character. He wouldn't have died. His goal was to fight and beat Crocodile, so he struggled in shonen fashion until he did. I don't remember saying Usopp would die or run away. My point was that he wasn't cut out to beat Jabura, and that wasn't his goal anyway, so I don't think it'll happen.
that'll be my last reply on that subject as this debate is going nowhere, as there's no facts to oppose, only mere personal opinions.
No problem. I also felt it was going nowhere, this was just to defend my own view because you don't seem to understand that I'm not some contradicting Usopp hater.
does any of you think Coby might be in one of the Vice Admiral ships when the buster calls arrive?
does any of you think Coby might be in one of the Vice Admiral ships when the buster calls arrive?
Whoa man, I totally forgot about Coby! It's been such a long time since his last appearance….
That would be pretty cool to see Coby again, maybe under Vice-admiral Garp's command. What if he achieved a ranking position by now? What is the position of the next commanding officer under a vice-admiral? OR...well, I guess it's too far fetched to think about Coby having achieved a vice-admiral position by now, yeah?
Though that would be pretty cool as Luffy and Coby's first confrontation after departing in East Blue...
I don't think Cobby got much higher in rank, since it has been a few weeks since the characters left him to the Marine, but I do think he got braver and stronger.
I feel Coby will be a foil to Luffy on the Marine side. The more dangerous Luffy becomes to the Navy, the higher the ranks Coby will climb. I also feel his relationship with Luffy will help bring about a change in the relationship between the Navy and Pirates at the end of OP.
Anyway, to answer the question, I have a feeling we will see Coby on one of the Buster Call ships. Oda hasn't forgotten about him, and this would be a good time to see what has happened to him since the Alabasta arc.
i think we should all have a chart on what ideas we are desucing now and
who agrees who dosen't
all this reading on the computer is makingme dizzy -(@.@)-
coby might have achieved an actual navy rank by now. it's been quite a while since we saw his little mini saga. he and helmeppo really aren't anything special (aside from something garp sees). i highly doubt that the mugiwara pirates will encounter the buster call though. coby will probably hear that luffy and his notorious band of pirates are in enies lobby, but arrives to see nothing but the battered cp9.
coby might have achieved an actual navy rank by now.
Heh, It's REALLY hard to take coby seriously =p
welll… he is pretty short
and pretty gay. i just don't like him very much. too early in the story for me to take him seriously. ^^;
The argument against Coby having gained much rank in the Marines because of how little OP time has passed doesn't really work. All our main characters have progressed extraordinarily in the same short amount of time. I'm not saying I think he'll show up with the Buster Call (I have no idea either way, though it would seem like one of those neat things Oda would), but that argument doesn't really hold water with regard to the OP world.
Yea, I mean if half the board fully expects Usopp to be able to take down Jabura in a melee situation I don't see why there's much difficulty in believing that Coby and Helmeppo could have gotten at least some rank of worth.
….well im bord
If Ussop had more time to prepare, and better information on the techneques the CP9 members use, then I'm sure he'dve done better. For example say when Jaybura attacks him Ussop coats him in some dust. At first the dust seems harmless, but when Ussop shots some of his stars, and Jabs dodges, he finds out that the dust is magnetic, and now all of Ussops shots will chase after him.
Usopp should keep some of the seastone cuffs and fashion a weapon with it. For someone who invented the clima tact, it would be about time he made something THAT powerfull for himself. Kabuto ? It seems like a bigger slighshot to me…
I'm fairly certain boith Coby and Helmepo have achieved a rank by now. and I think they are above te normal soldiers. It's not hard to believe that they are growing stronger at an incredible rate. I'm pretty sure they can hold there own in a fight now.
I defenatly see Coby and Helmepo achieving rank, because there is on thing that they have in common with eachother that none of the other marines can say. They experienced Luffy personally, and typically people that have come in contact with Luffy either strive for their dreams with all of their might, or get their dreams sent flying with a big ol' gomu gomu no bazooka.
hurray! for off-topic!
hurray! for off-topic!
If there was a hurray for everytime someone gets offtopic, there would be even more offtopicness.
w…..w....w.....h ...h ...o o o ...o o o ....t t t ...!!
..w.w.w.w.......h h h ..o .....o .o .....o .....t .....!!
...w.....w........ h....h ...o o o... o o o ......t .....O
w....w.....w.... h ...h ...o o o ...o o o ..t t t ..!!
..w w w w...... h h h ..o .....o. o .....o ...t ....!!
...w..... w .......h ...h ...o o o ...o o o ....t ....O
….well im bord
Then go do something contructive and not clutter the thread with pointless posts. :dry:
@Luffies:
If Ussop had more time to prepare, and better information on the techneques the CP9 members use, then I'm sure he'dve done better.
Probably, but you don't always have time to prepare for battle. If you can't fight on the fly, you'll probably die on the battlefield.
w…..w....w.....h ...h ...o o o ...o o o ....t t t ...!!
..w.w.w.w.......h h h ..o .....o .o .....o .....t .....!!
...w.....w........ h....h ...o o o... o o o ......t .....Ow....w.....w.... h ...h ...o o o ...o o o ..t t t ..!!
..w w w w...... h h h ..o .....o. o .....o ...t ....!!
...w..... w .......h ...h ...o o o ...o o o ....t ....O
I'm sorry, we don't use morse code on the internet. :laugh:
If you have nothing to contribute to the topic, how about errrrrr maybe not posting in it ? Otherwise you're prolly going to get suspended for spamming.
read inbettween the lines!!!!baka
read inbettween the lines!!!!baka
私はお前だったら、知らない日本語を使うすることが出来ない. :laugh:
If you'd like to try my patience by shitting up a discussion thread, go right ahead; don't be surprised if I end up probating you for you to get the idea. We don't let that sort of stuff fly here.
Everyone else: back on topic ! Chop chop. :E
take a page out of zoros book and get some sleep
or your sence of humor will die
Oh, I've got a sense of humor; I just reserve it for things that are actually funny. And seeing as how I've warned you about three times already in this topic…
-- There. Everyone, back to normal discussion, post haste !
After Ussops character development and Nami beating Kalifa, I thought they were both going to fight Jyabara together. It's a good way to have Sanji reenter the fight, but I was looking forward to seeing if Ussop was getting fighting skills (though I guess he didn't since jyabara was about to kill him)
I think it'd be a little counterproductive for Nami and Usopp to defeat someone together. That wouldn't show too much development on either part. Usopp has come a decent way so far (with more to come, I would expect), and Nami has shown great development in this arc.
(Both in terms of character and bust.)
Personally, I was a tiny bit disappointed with this whole bit with Usopp losing so massively and Sanji stepping in. But it seems, with recent developments, that there will still be plenty of time to shine for everyone. Usopp will get his big chance somewhere along the line. And it will be Glorious I'm sure.
I think by the time this scene makes it to the anime and we know what happens later, we'll probably be looking forward to Sanji's "stepping in". Like it or not, he saved Usopp's life. We certainly don't want a dead Usopp. I don't think I've ever been so anxious for the next chapter. Oda will probably screw with us all and focus on Luffy, Franky, and Spandam.