Well, that was a fun 2 hours and 28 minutes. It was nice while it lasted…
Space Jam 2
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The utopian, alternate reality where Space Jam 2 was released in theaters.
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I don't know why everyone became sharks tho
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@Rogues':
http://oi60.tinypic.com/25rp5oy.jpg
This is going to be Glorious.
I want another Iron Giant because this guy is awesome.
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You people celebrating that this wonderful project isn't happening: You have no soul!
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I want another Iron Giant because this guy is awesome.
Wow I'm trying to recover from this Space Jam 2 fallacy
and you're already bringing up more "best movies ever" that will never come to fruition,
what kind of heartless fiend are you!? -
Welp, that was fun while it lasted.
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No joke, I saw this movie ten times as a kid. TEN. GODDAMN. TIMES. And I hated it every time. But somehow I was forced to watch it be it a school trip, friends, family, I could not escape it. I could not escape…
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@Thousand:
No joke, I saw this movie ten times as a kid. TEN. GODDAMN. TIMES. And I hated it every time. But somehow I was forced to watch it be it a school trip, friends, family, I could not escape it. I could not escape…
There is no escape from T H E J A M
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My school made me watch it twice…TWICE!!! And the second time was especially awful because they brought the primary school students (ten to twelve year olds) and they kept screaming and hollering throughout the whole thing. It was hell...
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I would be hollering too if I was a kid watching this movie. When the movie starts, everyone knows to get up because it's time to slam now
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Space Jam has the distinction of being the first VHS where I remember always skipping ahead to the english subbed version. Not that Danish Michael Jordan did a bad job, but dear lord dubbing live action was a total immersion breaker for me even then.
Also, it kept surprising me long after the 90s had ended; suddenly, I understood what was up with that guy that randomly shows up at the end! Its that guy, wossname, Ghostbuster dude, Bill Murray! He's a big deal isn't he? Is that what is known as a Cah-mee-Oh?
And this thing was based off a marketing gimmick to sell sports clothes? It wasn't an original creation created in a flash of brilliant inspiration? Whaaaaaaaat
No, I can't hate Space Jam, just like I can't hate Fern Gully.
But a sequel now, anno 2014? Age of screeching CGI rodents and smurfs? No sir, I think I'll pass on that Jam just to be safe.
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@The:
But a sequel now, anno 2014? Age of screeching CGI rodents and smurfs? No sir, I think I'll pass on that Jam just to be safe.
Suddenly a new Space Jam sounds a whole lot better.
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@Purple:
I would be hollering too if I was a kid watching this movie. When the movie starts, everyone knows to get up because it's time to slam now
…I hate you...
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@The:
No, I can't hate Space Jam, just like I can't hate Fern Gully.
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I don't know. Appearantly some people can find it in their hearts to dislike a movie where Tim Curry is a flamboyant, singing pollution monster.
Also, "preachy" comes up a lot, but I honestly much prefer Fern Gully to something like Avatar.
Wait, let me rephrase that: I'd honestly prefer Fern Gully twice in a row to Avatar.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Thousand:
My school made me watch it twice…TWICE!!! And the second time was especially awful because they brought the primary school students (ten to twelve year olds) and they kept screaming and hollering throughout the whole thing. It was hell...
For whatever reason, the Jungle Book was the default "distract the children" movie at my school. I always had to beware my public image, and not sing along to anything, trying to keep the fine sheen of Disney Disdain that marked you as one of the Cool Kids
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@The:
I don't know. Appearantly some people can find it in their hearts to dislike a movie where Tim Curry is a flamboyant, singing pollution monster.
Yeah just gonna ignore that those people exist.
@The:
Also, "preachy" comes up a lot, but I honestly much prefer Fern Gully to something like Avatar.
Wait, let me rephrase that: I'd honestly prefer Fern Gully twice in a row to Avatar.
The only thing that's cool about Avatar is its accuracy in portraying the military, which is actually pretty rare,
and impressive considering that it takes place in the far future on another planet. -
This post is deleted!
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That's a shame. But possibly for the best, since as a sequel they would no doubt use boring just a sexpot Movie Lola instead of super awesome insane Looney Tunes Show Lola, who is among the best characters ever.
@Thousand:
Thank God
Thank God indeed. Im Relieved that Hollywood hasnt actually sunk that low yet. The first movie was a disgrace to both the Looney Toons and Basketball.
You both deserve whatever punishments I as mod will soon heap upon you.
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@RobbyBevard:
That's a shame. But possibly for the best, since as a sequel they would no doubt use boring just a sexpot Movie Lola instead of super awesome insane Looney Tunes Show Lola, who is among the best characters ever.
You both deserve whatever punishments I as mod will soon heap upon you.
C'mon Robby, let em be.
No reason to go overboard or anything.
insert pun about jam
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Also, sexy anthropomorphic rabbits have a much bigger market now than in 1996.
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@The:
I don't know. Appearantly some people can find it in their hearts to dislike a movie where Tim Curry is a flamboyant, singing pollution monster.
Also, "preachy" comes up a lot, but I honestly much prefer Fern Gully to something like Avatar.
Wait, let me rephrase that: I'd honestly prefer Fern Gully twice in a row to Avatar.
Here's a question. Is there a movie to prefer Avatar over? I'm not a huge movie goer myself, so it's easy for me to say Avatar was probally the biggest waste of time I've spent a movie ticket on. It was also the first and only time I outright fell asleep in a movie theater.
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Citizen Kane, mostly. Or one of the really, really bad Pokémon movies that feel like they were written by ten-year-olds. Avatar seems fairly enjoyable in comparison to any of those.
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Also, sexy anthropomorphic rabbits have a much bigger market now than in 1996.
True.
Though lord knows the media would be all over that for exactly that reason.
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Citizen Kane, mostly. Or one of the really, really bad Pokémon movies that feel like they were written by ten-year-olds. Avatar seems fairly enjoyable in comparison to any of those.
For a miniute there I thought you are talking about a live action Pokemon movie. And don't even tell me if it exists or not. I don't think my head would handle the reality of it.
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I think there probably is one, I haven't dared to find out. And I don't think I ever will. Even the thought of one is too scary.
But seriously, I watched one of the newer ones with a cousin a few weeks back and it was the single most illogical, inane piece of fiction that I have ever seen adapted in an animated form. It was seriously worse than some of the bad fanfic stories I've read and that speaks volumes.
Like, the climax scene was Ash ascending on some magical freaking magic castle into outer space because some stupid Pokémon that was flying the thing had lost all control and was just going up, so he ran out of air to breathe and passed out… While another guy flew up there with this giant mecha of a robot Pokémon that apparently has jet engines strapped onto it (???) and keeps telling fainted Ash not to give up because he can't let everything end that way. And this guy clearly has no problems breathing whatsoever. Oh, and he's wearing a t-shirt?
I was clawing my face at that point.
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They should go all the way now that they know the expectations for a sequel. Ditch the Sports, put Bill Murray in a giant Garfield Suit, throw some rebooted Looney tunes in there and insert the phrase "Total Pawtashtrophe" in There. I mean, it's the 2010's "Cat-atrosphe" just doesn't cut it.
I expect my shipment of whores and cocaine any minute now Hollywood. Call me.
I think there probably is one, I haven't dared to find out. And I don't think I ever will. Even the thought of one is too scary.
But seriously, I watched one of the newer ones with a cousin a few weeks back and it was the single most illogical, inane piece of fiction that I have ever seen adapted in an animated form. It was seriously worse than some of the bad fanfic stories I've read and that speaks volumes.
Like, the climax scene was Ash ascending on some magical freaking magic castle into outer space because some stupid Pokémon that was flying the thing had lost all control and was just going up, so he ran out of air to breathe and passed out… While another guy flew up there with this giant mecha of a robot Pokémon that apparently has jet engines strapped onto it (???) and keeps telling fainted Ash not to give up because he can't let everything end that way. And this guy clearly has no problems breathing whatsoever. Oh, and he's wearing a t-shirt?
I was clawing my face at that point.
Wow, that must have been an horrible T shirt.
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I think there probably is one, I haven't dared to find out. And I don't think I ever will. Even the thought of one is too scary.
But seriously, I watched one of the newer ones with a cousin a few weeks back and it was the single most illogical, inane piece of fiction that I have ever seen adapted in an animated form. It was seriously worse than some of the bad fanfic stories I've read and that speaks volumes.
Like, the climax scene was Ash ascending on some magical freaking magic castle into outer space because some stupid Pokémon that was flying the thing had lost all control and was just going up, so he ran out of air to breathe and passed out… While another guy flew up there with this giant mecha of a robot Pokémon that apparently has jet engines strapped onto it (???) and keeps telling fainted Ash not to give up because he can't let everything end that way. And this guy clearly has no problems breathing whatsoever. Oh, and he's wearing a t-shirt?
I was clawing my face at that point.
- by Alfonso Cuaron
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@RobbyBevard:
….. the hell?
I honestly don't know what anyone sees in Citizen Kane. It's probably the most boring and uneventful movie ever directed? Stupid people making stupid decisions that only lead to them being miserable and then other characters being all nostalgic about the mistakes they made and how things could have been different is all that I ever saw in it, and it pissed me off to no end.
Of course, I've only ever seen it once and I couldn't pay much attention to any deeper nuances that it might have had because I was so incredibly bored at the time, so it's quite possible that I'm just unaware of all the great stuff that it had… But I don't know, it seems unlikely to me?
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Well, that's a bummer. But, then again, I guess it probably would've sucked.
But I can't deny, I loved Space Jam as a kid and I still love it today. One of my all time guilty pleasures (and, hey, Ebert liked it).
@The:
Also, it kept surprising me long after the 90s had ended; suddenly, I understood what was up with that guy that randomly shows up at the end! Its that guy, wossname, Ghostbuster dude, Bill Murray! He's a big deal isn't he? Is that what is known as a Cah-mee-Oh?
Oh yeah, and Swackhammer's line:
"I didn't know Dan Aykroyd was in this picture!"
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I honestly don't know what anyone sees in Citizen Kane. It's probably the most boring and uneventful movie ever directed? Stupid people making stupid decisions that only lead to them being miserable and then other characters being all nostalgic about the mistakes they made and how things could have been different is all that I ever saw in it, and it pissed me off to no end.
A story of love, betrayal, scandal, a huge politcal ordeal, the crumbling of an empire. The sheer scope of covering an entire man's life?
…i know the narrative mysetery hook that ties it all together of "What is rosebud" has long since been ruined by pop culture.... but even without that light mystery holding it together its still a really good movie. Probably doesn't deserve its title of "best ever" which it largely gets for when and where it fell in history and what it pioneered, but... it's still a really good movie full of interesting characters and tragedy.
I can understand not liking the film, I'm not a huge fan of Godfather, (don't care for the mobsters) Gone with the Wind, (the lead is a bitch), Ben-Hur (Not a fan of the religious aspect) or 2001 (looks fantastic, not much happens) but... they're still good movies full of great stuff. characterization, direction, setting, acting, music, cinemtography... those films are the all time greats because they have all the pieces.
So yeah, I get it not being your speed, that's fine... but to not see any of what makes it great? To not be pulled in at least a little by the story? First time I saw it, it was on tv and I'd missed the first 20 or so minutes and I still got pulled in instantly by the acting and intensity of the scenes. I got entranced by the movie... wasn't till later viewings I picked up on the amazing stuff in the making of it.
But to even begin to say "It's probably the most boring and uneventful movie"? REALLY?
Serious question. I don't mean this sarcastically in any way, You're 20. You grew up even more in the age of internet and cellphones and mtv generally faster paced editing on everything than I did and I know there's an actual generational attention span difference as a result. (And my parents before me are even more prone to being able to watch slower films.) How many movies have you seen from before 1975 when Jaws and Star Wars changed the pacing on everything? Are you able to sit through Lawrence of Arabia or Seven Samurai?
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"I didn't know Dan Aykroyd was in this picture!"
That and " Larry Bird isnt't white, Larry Bird is Clear." Compete for my favorite lines in the movie!
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Space Jam was great. You can't hate something so….unique.
I don't want a sequel because it just wouldn't work without MJ, and the potential Quad City DJ remixes would probably be horrid.
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@RobbyBevard:
Serious question. I don't mean this sarcastically in any way, You're 20. You grew up even more in the age of internet and cellphones and mtv generally faster paced editing on everything than I did and I know there's an actual generational attention span difference as a result. (And my parents before me are even more prone to being able to watch slower films.) How many movies have you seen from before 1975 when Jaws and Star Wars changed the pacing on everything? Are you able to sit through Lawrence of Arabia or Seven Samurai?
To answer your question, Seven Samurai is probably my favourite movie and the best that I have ever seen, so no, it's not really a pacing issue or that of me not being able to stand something that requires more concentration than the modern MTV era popular media with its thirty second scenes dulls one's senses to.
Ben-Hur and the 3½ hour Gandhi movie are both among movies that I hold in high regard too, and while I haven't personally seen Lawrence of Arabia I think it would probably be up there as well. In general, I vastly prefer something longer and more thoroughly developed to something that just sequences short moments of high intensity together and tries to entertain the audience by keeping them on the edge of their seats at all times.
It's something that I'm actually very sad that most studios and Hollywood directors don't really do that much anymore, because I seriously find most media entertainment just downright boring these days to the point where I virtually avoid going to the movies or watching new series unless I hear good things about them. I'm a huge snob when it comes to well executed aspects of all media productions. My standards are so high that I simply can't bother with anything that isn't stellar on some level or that doesn't otherwise have a strong personal appeal.
Calling Citizen Kane the most boring or the most uneventful film in existence is a stupid emotional hyperbole, yeah. It's neither of those things in truth. But that is very much how I felt several years ago when I was watching it out of sheer curiosity and with very high expectations for a movie that was touted as "the undisputed best in history".
! And I very much think that what I said about it feeling like nothing but a forced epic depiction of stupid people making stupid decisions that ultimately made Kane a self-absorbed and a bitter man has a lot to do with that reaction. I found it very hard to get into the story at all with how frustrating it was to me. What I saw was not a tragic story of how a great man built great things only to slowly lose them all, but a story of how a poor somewhat stupid man kept making bad choices that ruined everything he had time and time again.
! The betrayal? Caused by Kane's inability to speak with his partner about important things when it was needed. I can't quite remember why, but I think his pride and bad handling of emotions was what made him treat the other guy unfairly in that situation. The love, its end, and the scandal? Marred again by Kane's bad habit of not talking with people. He loved her, she loved him, they could have had each other and lived a happier life if only they had talked about things before it was too late. The political ordeal? Actually interesting for a while, yeah, but ended with a low note again. And the collapse? Caused by Kane's bloated and constantly worsening egotism that he simply couldn't see through anymore because there had never been anyone to talk any sense into him as a result of his earlier errors. The last hour or so was incredibly depressing and boring to watch because it was all just postponing the sad death that was not sad because of how tragic and unfair it was, as the film itself and the hype around it seemed to suggest, but because of how ugly it was in its futility.
! Those kind of stories really, really put me off. It's the Norland thing all over again, or maybe I should say the Norland hype was Citizen Kane all over again. I get so deeply sad and anxious about people's lives or parts of them (relationships, jobs, other big opportunities, etc.) falling apart solely because they do something that is stupid (mostly not communicating with one another) that I'm always overwhelmed with frustration. It makes other possibly fine things that much harder to spot, so even if the movie had stellar acting or something else that makes it really spectacular I probably couldn't point that out.
! And I don't know if this is just my own interpretation, but the whole movie seemed to really bask in the grand tragedy that were the failures of each and every part of Kane's personal life, never acknowledging for a second that what had happened could have been preventable and was so only because people acted like people often do instead of how people maybe could or should. It would have been fine, no, it would have been a masterpiece if it had really portrayed all that transpired in a tragic light, pointing out how the certain reactions of certain characters were the things that made everything happen just in the way that it did and how it is sad that, for example, Kane was unable to fix his relationship before it withered completely. But instead, it seemed to me, it went down the "oh, he was a great man, and we don't know why all the sad things happened to him, but it's truly a tragedy that they did" route, and was awfully pretentious and devoid of all actual substance. It was boring because it was predictable; it was boring because it had no evident deeper moral contemplation.
! Yeah, you're right about the scope of the movie being great. Covering the entire lifespan of a man is a tall order, and it did it pretty well. Although, I must say that I felt like it was awfully sequential as a result and not very fluid, but that's probably just me that it disturbs. Yeah, the acting was very good, I can't and won't take that away from it either. And yeah, the aesthetics were really well used to its benefit too. They really managed to create the mood. But when the mood felt dreary and frustrating, that didn't really matter much.That's just my take on Kane, though. I definitely concede that calling it "the most boring movie ever" is BS. But I'd still take Avatar over it any day. :P
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Thank God!
Haven't seen the movie since early 2000s (loved it), but NC said it's horrible, so it must have been!
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stuff
Fine and well delivered points. No argument from me, I agree with pretty much everything you said, as those are legitimate flaws in the film… aside from the fact I liked the movie and found it compelling, and you didn't.
I think some of the problems you have with it might simply stem from it basically being the first film to do what it did. The flashbacks, even in sequential order, being intercut with a present tense plot hadn't really been done in film before (Or much in books, either)... and there's been some 80 years to build on the storytelling devices Kane pioneered, and have played upon what it did and done better in some ways. (Again, a lot of its place as "greatest movie ever" status, lies in where it historically happened, what it pioneered in film-making, how expertly done the editing was, and how many decades its had to permeate... the exact same film done today would still be considered good, or great even, but wouldn't very quickly go to any "all time best" lists because there's been 80 years of film taking for granted things that it did. )
Also, it was loosely based on a true story, so some of the awful character flaw things that happened... well... really happened.
At least a little "Seinfeld isn't funny" going on... but yeah, fair points all around. Thanks for taking the time to explain beyond "Citizen Kane is dull."
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The cinematography (and other technical stuff) in the movie was pretty revolutionary at the time as well.
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My biggest disappointment with Kane is how it kinda timeskipped his development into a corrupt, heartless individual rather than slowly show his gradual moral decay which I was hoping for. At least that's how I remember it but it has been a while since I last saw it so maybe I'm remembering wrong though I do distinctly remember that disappointment.
The movie did have the best room destroying scene I've seen next to Vampire's Kiss.
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Yeah this is definitely a case of Seinfeld Isn't Funny.
Though I prefer something like King of Comedy or Taxi Driver over CK regardless. -
@RobbyBevard:
At least a little "Seinfeld isn't funny" going on… but yeah, fair points all around. Thanks for taking the time to explain beyond "Citizen Kane is dull."
Yeah, no problem, I honestly hate it when people do the 'blargh worst thing ever because I felt like it' thing without even trying to explore why it is that they felt that way.
It's why you sometimes get an endless stream of rant-like posts on stuff like OP chapters from me – I don't want to be that guy who just walks in and say something is bad and everyone who enjoys it should feel bad. And hey, if you can see something from a different perspective as a result of maybe making a fool of yourself, I'm all for it. At least I'll learn something.
And yup, I think you're definitely right in that Kane being the first movie to ever really attempt that form of storytelling in movie form does affect it a lot. It's one of its charms in the same way as people fall in love with older music or older cars, and for those who can appreciate the film in the historical context it's probably very incredible. That's just the biggest way that my relatively young age and limited experience tends to enter the picture: I don't usually place that much value on how well executed something was at the time when it was made unless it was something completely revolutionary (and in Kane's case I simply don't know enough about the history of movies as a medium to have that reaction). I'm much more of a presentation and meaning oriented person in that I place more weight on what actually happens in a story and what kind of a message it is sending through which kinds of ways, and if that's lacking or unpolished, as it slightly was with Citizen Kane, I'm easily much more critical towards a work.
But I don't want to say it like all other opinions are wrong or something as conceited as that, because that's not true. I full and well appreciate your view of it, my focus is just different from yours. I think I could use a rewatch, though. Might get a bit more out of it now.
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I don't want to be that guy who just walks in and say something is bad and everyone who enjoys it should feel bad. And hey, if you can see something from a different perspective as a result of maybe making a fool of yourself, I'm all for it. At least I'll learn something.
I don't mind people that do this unless they are all like "I don't understand how anyone would like this" proceeded by a long tangent on why it should not be praised or hyped by anyone. It comes across as really intrusive, and it pisses me off even more when these same people act like victims for having a differing opinion. By yeah. Short and cute version:
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I love that there's an in depth Citizen Kane discussion going on in the Space Jam 2 thread.
We should debate like, a whole bunch of classics. In this thread. Just cause.
@Thousand:
My biggest disappointment with Kane is how it kinda timeskipped his development into a corrupt, heartless individual rather than slowly show his gradual moral decay which I was hoping for. At least that's how I remember it but it has been a while since I last saw it so maybe I'm remembering wrong though I do distinctly remember that disappointment.
Nope, that's a problem I have with it too. The film probably should have had another 10 or 20 minute sequence. No idea what that could possibly entail or how it would actually add to the narrative in any significant way… but yes, it skips a very, VERY large chunk of the man's life and it feels like that's missing.
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Space Jam 2 and Classic Movie Analysis Thread
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Space Jam 2 and other Classic Movie Analysis Thread
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If we are speaking classic movies, I admit that I could not for my life sit through Seven Samurai. Sadly I can't give a long reason why aside from the fact it put me to sleep and the screenplay reminded me of old western/cowboy films. Then agian, this was me seeing it four years ago. Not saying it's a bad movie tho.
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@RobbyBevard:
Space Jam 2 and other Classic Movie Analysis Thread
Make it so, number one.
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@Purple:
Make it so, number one.
I probably will eventually… but its more fun to just see the "Space Jam 2" thread wrack up multiple pages.
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Oh man, if we go into Seven Samurai, I could praise it so much.
But yeah, it's pacing is definitely very slow, so if you get bored easily it's not a big surprise you won't be able to sit through it very well. The thing with it is just that it's completely intentional and is used as a device of slowly building up the tension in order to intensify it, as opposed to creating it which is the approach that more modern movies of the same style would probably do.
The entire premise itself creates the tension, so you're aware of it the entire time, and the rest of the movie is just basically about making the tension feel stronger and stronger with each passing second until the series of final confrontations. The comparison with old Westerns is pretty accurate, I'd say, because stuff like Rio Bravo did exactly just that, only not with such great detail and realism.
I don't know how much of the important stuff that makes it easier to sit through the standard cut version gets rid off, though. I know there are two versions of the film: the original cut that is closer to three and half hours long and that is said to be surprisingly easier to watch because it flows better, and the standard cut that is much shorter and that doesn't have all the build-up in it that makes it so intense. I've only seen the longer version myself, so I can't tell.
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We need a poll asking what's better between Space Jam and Citizen Kane.
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We need a poll asking what's better between Space Jam and Citizen Kane.
We have to keep it relevant to the original intent of this thread, yo.
So the question is. Space Jam 2 or Citizen Kane?