General 'Four Emperors' Discussion

[Darth]

@Razh:

Yeah, Kizaru didn't seem all too worried that Beckman aimed a gun at him.

On the other hand, Beckman daring to threaten Kizaru should also say a little. According to an SBS, he has the highest IQ out of anyone introduced in East Blue saga (Nami 2nd, Kuro 3rd). The fact he's not afraid of Kizaru should be indicative. Makes you wonder how well he'd do in a fight against him.

On the other hand, we already said multiple times: Not being afraid does not equal power. Being second in command of Shanks certainly counts for something, but I was always of opinion that Yonkou commanders are weaker than people are hyping them up to be.

[Luca]

@Palpitoad93:

Does anyone else get the feeling that the only Yonkou Luffy will ever defeat 1v1 is Blackbeard? Big Mom just seems like the type of character that's going to take multiple crews' collaboration to bring down, ditto for Kaidou if he has the Typhon mythical zoan. Not to mention there needs to be a development in power, and having Luffy take out, say Kaidou 1v1 before his fight with BB is going to cheapen the difficulty of that final encounter.

Thats a given, lets take this list as an example for yonko power levels

Kaido : 100
Blackbeard : 101
Shanks : 102
Big mom : 99
Whitebeard :102

Not my opinion just an example.

If luffy defeats the first yonko 1 vs 1, then he can take them all one on one.

The difference here is not like kuro then enel. At those levels even if he defeats kaido 1 on 1, big mom is probably gonna be the same amount of challenge.

[Mickamott]

Kizaru never really worries about anything though, and I think him deciding to stop with Ben Beckman's threat means that Kizaru certainly thinks he's a worthwhile enemy with an uncertain outcome in a direct fight. I think that's why Kizaru stopped until moving to attack Luffy/Law, because at that point it became worth it to move with an uncertain outcome.

[Luca]

@Darth:

On the other hand, we already said multiple times: Not being afraid does not equal power. Being second in command of Shanks certainly counts for something, but I was always of opinion that Yonkou commanders are weaker than people are hyping them up to be.

You can't really say that tho, Every character is different, I dont think the roger pirates were THAT much ahead of yonkous right now, they should all be about equal or really slightly stronger, Rayleigh was as strong if not stronger then an admiral in his prime. Could very well be that Beckamen is as strong as kizaru.

Besides he dind't give a rats ass because luffy was on the brink of death, all he needed was 1 lazer, then he could have turned back and faced beckamen.

[Palpitoad93]

@Razh:

Yeah, Kizaru didn't seem all too worried that Beckman aimed a gun at him.

On the other hand, Beckman daring to threaten Kizaru should also say a little. According to an SBS, he has the highest IQ out of anyone introduced in East Blue saga (Nami 2nd, Kuro 3rd). The fact he's not afraid of Kizaru should be indicative. Makes you wonder how well he'd do in a fight against him.

I'd assume a Marco-like performance.

[Darth]

@LordEnel:

You can't really say that tho, Every character is different, I dont think the roger pirates were THAT much ahead of yonkous right now, they should all be about equal or really slightly stronger, Rayleigh was as strong if not stronger then an admiral in his prime. Could very well be that Beckamen is as strong as kizaru.

Besides he dind't give a rats ass because luffy was on the brink of death, all he needed was 1 lazer, then he could have turned back and faced beckamen.

You know, when I will see any pirate below Yonkou level doing moderate amount of damage to a Admiral, than I will buy it.

[wolfwood]

I wouldn't put any more stock in anything Kizaru says than i would for that guy in the looney bin who thinks he's Napoleon.

You just humour dangerous lunatics and then back away slowly, hoping he doesn't spazz out and blows up the entire block.

[desa]

@RobZilla:

It's kind of like people have only ever seen that one comment from Kizaru, and not every other sarcastic comment he's pretty much never done making.

You got your senior title pretty fast.

[Razh]

@Darth:

On the other hand, we already said multiple times: Not being afraid does not equal power. Being second in command of Shanks certainly counts for something, but I was always of opinion that Yonkou commanders are weaker than people are hyping them up to be.

Don't know why you felt the need to clarify that not being afraid does not equal power.

And I'd almost agree that a Yonkou first mate shouldn't be as strong as a marine admiral. But then, it's not as simple as that. We had Rayleigh holding off Kizaru at least and there's a good chance Beckman is close to his ability. Maybe a little weaker, maybe even stronger, since Ray is old now. But yeah, Benn is no spring chicken either. So basically, that Beckman-Kizaru incident did nothing to help us determine how the fight between them would go.

[RobZilla]

@desa:

You got your senior title pretty fast.

Indeed I did.

My ability to disregard Borsalino's uber sarcastic comments was a big part of it.

[Luca]

You know, when I will see any pirate below Yonkou level doing moderate amount of damage to a Admiral, than I will buy it.

Why so hard to think of it? So far there has been 9 admirals. Kong Sengoku Zephyr Akainu Aokiji Kizaru Green Bull and Fujitora (counted Garp too)

I immagine them of being of equal strenght With maybe some of them having a slight edge over the rest ( Sengoku Garp and Kong)

So far of characters portrayed to be stronger then admirals there are 9, Roger Shiki Whitebeard Shanks Mihawk Big Mom Kaido BlackBeard ( and dragon i assume)

If the 9 Yonkou portrayed guys are stronger then admirals, I don't see why there would be more people of equal strenght to admirals who are a level BELOW.

[Darth]

@Razh:

Don't know why you felt the need to clarify that not being afraid does not equal power.

And I'd almost agree that a Yonkou first mate shouldn't be as strong as a marine admiral. But then, it's not as simple as that. We had Rayleigh holding off Kizaru at least and there's a good chance Beckman is close to his ability. Maybe a little weaker, maybe even stronger, since Ray is old now. But yeah, Benn is no spring chicken either. So basically, that Beckman-Kizaru incident did nothing to help us determine how the fight between them would go.

Old discussion, don't be bothered by it.

Holding off, again, amounts to very little. I'm looking for ability to launch a succesful counterattack.

@LordEnel:

You know, when I will see any pirate below Yonkou level doing moderate amount of damage to a Admiral, than I will buy it.

Why so hard to think of it? So far there has been 9 admirals. Kong Sengoku Zephyr Akainu Aokiji Kizaru Green Bull and Fujitora (counted Garp too)

I immagine them of being of equal strenght With maybe some of them having a slight edge over the rest ( Sengoku Garp and Kong)

So far of characters portrayed to be stronger then admirals there are 9, Roger Shiki Whitebeard Shanks Mihawk Big Mom Kaido BlackBeard ( and dragon i assume)

If the 9 Yonkou portrayed guys are stronger then admirals, I don't see why there would be more people of equal strenght to admirals who are a level BELOW.

Except for Whitebeard, the rest are your baseless conjecture. And that's for the guys that are suppose to be stronger than Admirals.

So yeah.

[Razh]

I like it when the fights are close and not very clear. For example, you deffinitely couldn't say that Luffy was stronger than Lucci or Crocodile at the time he beat them. That's one of the reasons why I like One Piece. You can't have a power level discussion when so many different hax powers are involved. Everyone has a chance to beat someone as long as there isn't too much of a gap in fighting ability or if devil fruit your oponent has isn't too much of a counter to your ability.

[Darth]

@Razh:

I like it when the fights are close and not very clear. For example, you deffinitely couldn't say that Luffy was stronger than Lucci or Crocodile at the time he beat them. That's one of the reasons why I like One Piece. You can't have a power level discussion when so many different hax powers are involved.

I agree with that.

Which is why it irks me that people say Admirals have no chance of defeating the Yonkou, and at least top three yonkou commanders can take out a admiral. It's ridicoulous.

[RobZilla]

@Darth:

I agree with that.

Which is why it irks me that people say Admirals have no chance of defeating the Yonkou, and at least top three yonkou commanders can take out a admiral. It's ridicoulous.

Indeed, it's all far more murky and subjective than that.

It's all a very large, grey, vague area.

I like it that way.

[Beowulf89]

"A rookie with a bounty less than 50 million take out a Shichibukai? Impossible." - Crocodile, moments before being punched through a building.

You can guess at stuff, and there's obviously some strict limits to what a person can do, but when you're talking about the strongest people in the world, it's never cut and dry. And broad categories are the worst way to try and map it out in your head.

[RobZilla]

@Beowulf89:

"A rookie with a bounty less than 50 million take out a Shichibukai? Impossible." - Crocodile, moments before being punched through a building.

You can guess at stuff, and there's obviously some strict limits to what a person can do, but when you're talking about the strongest people in the world, it's never cut and dry. And broad categories are the worst way to try and map it out in your head.

Exactly.

I doubt the fleet admiral sits there with a DBZ style scouter while he's assessing admiral candidates.

[MetaMario]

@RobZilla:

Exactly.

I doubt the fleet admiral sits there with a DBZ style scouter while he's assessing admiral candidates.

Hmm his douriki is over 9000….!

[King Cannon]

So Akainu just sits there while Admiral candidates punch him instead?

[Beowulf89]

And their fists burn off, and he knows not to bother hiring them because they are idiots. Yes.

[wolfwood]

Ever see that episode of gravity falls with the manotaurs? It's like that

[Darth]

@Beowulf89:

And their fists burn off, and he knows not to bother hiring them because they are idiots. Yes.

As Akainu fan, I approve this post.

@RobZilla:

Exactly.

I doubt the fleet admiral sits there with a DBZ style scouter while he's assessing admiral candidates.

Especially since, and let's be honest here, pure physical strenght counts for very little in the high end of One Piece characters. Just look at Giants.

@Beowulf89:

"A rookie with a bounty less than 50 million take out a Shichibukai? Impossible." - Crocodile, moments before being punched through a building.

You can guess at stuff, and there's obviously some strict limits to what a person can do, but when you're talking about the strongest people in the world, it's never cut and dry. And broad categories are the worst way to try and map it out in your head.

Exactly. And honestly, if Yonkou were so untouchable as people say, than what's the point of the Marines? Or the series, for that matter, if they can't be taken down.

[Whackadoodle]

@Darth:

Which is why it irks me that people say Admirals have no chance of defeating the Yonkou, and at least top three yonkou commanders can take out a admiral. It's ridicoulous.

I usually see people point out that the top commanders of one Yonkou can fight evenly with an admiral, not that they would necessarily win.

@RobZilla:

I doubt the fleet admiral sits there with a DBZ style scouter while he's assessing admiral candidates.

No, but Commodore Brannew has the measure measure fruit :ninja:

[desa]

Whitebeard blocked a giant's attack with one hand. So it's like they were physically stronger. And both Garp use strength as their mean to fight.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Whackadoodle:

I usually see people point out that the top commanders of one Yonkou can fight evenly with an admiral, not that they would necessarily win.

No, but Commodore Brannew has the measure measure fruit :ninja:

Well people usually place admirals and the top commanders around the same level.

[Darth]

@Whackadoodle:

I usually see people point out that the top commanders of one Yonkou can fight evenly with an admiral, not that they would necessarily win.

They are usually the same people that think that Whitebeard was somehow the weakest of Yonkou.

Also, I'm sceptical on commander even figting evenly with admirals. There is nothing supporting this.

[DollarScholar]

@Darth:

They are usually the same people that think that Whitebeard was somehow the weakest of Yonkou.

Also, I'm sceptical on commander even figting evenly with admirals. There is nothing supporting this.

Well, Marco sort of did.

[Darth]

@DollarScholar:

Well, Marco sort of did.

Well yes, but he has the most broken power in history of the series. He is essentialy immortal, and invulnerable.

Without it, he went down almost immediatly, and I shall remind you that he failed to provide any lasting damage to any of the Admirals.

[RobZilla]

@Darth:

Well yes, but he has the most broken power in history of the series. He is essentialy immortal, and invulnerable.

Without it, he went down almost immediatly, and I shall remind you that he failed to provide any lasting damage to any of the Admirals.

Without their logia defences, the admirals themselves probably would have went down almost immediately too lol.

Even at that, Marco took several point blank lasers from Borsalino and was still in pretty good shape.

Marco didn't really have lasting damage done to him either.

Oda's stated that Marco's regenerative powers do indeed have a limit, he gon die me thinks.

[Darth]

@RobZilla:

Without their logia defences, the admirals themselves probably would have went down almost immediately too lol.

Even at that, Marco took several point blank lasers from Borsalino and was still in pretty good shape.

Marco didn't really have lasting damage done to him either.

Oda's stated that Marco's regenerative powers do indeed have a limit, he gon die me thinks.

I'm just saying that we can't treat Marco as a archetype of all Yonkou commaders. In all honesty, his powers are the most perfect defense against Devil Fruit based attacks in the history of the series.

Also, I don't think he was in that good of a shape after being hit by Kizaru's lasers. Altough that might be a effect of Kairoseki, so there is nothing definitive here.

For him not having any lasting damage done to him, I shall remind you that he regenerates. For lasting damage done to commanders, I shall point you out towards Jozu and Ace.

And where did Oda stated that? In SBS or something? I admit that I have not read all of extra materials, so I'm not sure.

[LightningAce]

@Darth:

I'm just saying that we can't treat Marco as a archetype of all Yonkou commaders. In all honesty, his powers are the most perfect defense against Devil Fruit based attacks in the history of the series.

Also, I don't think he was in that good of a shape after being hit by Kizaru's lasers. Altough that might be a effect of Kairoseki, so there is nothing definitive here.

For him not having any lasting damage done to him, I shall remind you that he regenerates. For lasting damage done to commanders, I shall point you out towards Jozu and Ace.

And where did Oda stated that? In SBS or something? I admit that I have not read all of extra materials, so I'm not sure.

It was in an SBS. He said he may go into a bit more detail rgarding Marco's fruit in the future.

[Darth]

@LightningAce:

It was in an SBS. He said he may go into a bit more detail rgarding Marco's fruit in the future.

Ah. Okay then. Altough, considering shit that went down during the war, I'm honestly curious as to how high is his limit.

[DollarScholar]

Im really curious to know what this so called limit is, seeing how he pretty much came out unscratched from a war in wich he tanked each admirals most devestating attack. Phoenix fruit looks pretty broken indeed.

[Darth]

@DollarScholar:

Im really curious to know what this so called limit is, seeing how he pretty much came out unscratched from a war in wich he tanked each admirals most devestating attack. Phoenix fruit looks pretty broken indeed.

Yeah… I would like to see any other Yonkou commander tanking Kizaru's Yasakami no Magatana.

[RobZilla]

@Darth:

I'm just saying that we can't treat Marco as a archetype of all Yonkou commaders. In all honesty, his powers are the most perfect defense against Devil Fruit based attacks in the history of the series.

Also, I don't think he was in that good of a shape after being hit by Kizaru's lasers. Altough that might be a effect of Kairoseki, so there is nothing definitive here.

For him not having any lasting damage done to him, I shall remind you that he regenerates. For lasting damage done to commanders, I shall point you out towards Jozu and Ace.

And where did Oda stated that? In SBS or something? I admit that I have not read all of extra materials, so I'm not sure.

TBH his defence isn't all that different from that of a logia, in fact he's unable to dodge attacks in the same way that Kuzan was able to when Whitebeard stabbed him.

He was hurt by Borsalino's lasers but by the the end of the war, Marco was still in pretty good condition.

Well yeah, Ace's defence was overridden by the class of Sakazuki's powers and Jozu's paramecia defence is nowhere near as good in the first place.

Yeah, it was in an SBS I believe.

[Enzeru]

We can't really say anything about the fighting capabilities of Yonkou commanders at this point due to simply not having seen any others- beside Burgess and Whitebeard's guys of course- in action. Some of them might go down against admirals quite easily, but at the same I'm sure that there exist a lot of them capable of at least stalling an admiral, if not going toe-to-toe with them. It's wrong to underestimate both admirals and Yonkou; that much is certain.

[RobZilla]

@Enzeru:

We can't really say anything about the fighting capabilities of Yonkou commanders at this point due to simply not having seen any others- beside Burgess and Whitebeard's guys of course- in action. Some of them might go down against admirals quite easily, but at the same I'm sure that there exist a lot of them capable of at least stalling an admiral, if not going toe-to-toe with them. It's wrong to underestimate both admirals and Yonkou; that much is certain.

Very true.

We've yet to see a definite battle featuring either of these ranks.

[DollarScholar]

@RobZilla:

TBH his defence isn't all that different from that of a logia, in fact he's unable to dodge attacks in the same way that Kuzan was able to when Whitebeard stabbed him.

He was hurt by Borsalino's lasers but by the the end of the war, Marco was still in pretty good condition.

Well yeah, Ace's defence was overridden by the class of Sakazuki's powers and Jozu's paramecia defence is nowhere near as good in the first place.

Yeah, it was in an SBS I believe.

The difference between Marcos Regeneration and Logias is that Logia users cannot use their elemental powers to heal their physical bodies (ie damage taken from haki or while affected by seastone). But Marcos regenerating flames can heal his physical body (see after he tanked Yasakami no Magatana and the wounds on his "human form" legs were healed by his blue flames)

[Darth]

@Enzeru:

We can't really say anything about the fighting capabilities of Yonkou commanders at this point due to simply not having seen any others- beside Burgess and Whitebeard's guys of course- in action. Some of them might go down against admirals quite easily, but at the same I'm sure that there exist a lot of them capable of at least stalling an admiral, if not going toe-to-toe with them. It's wrong to underestimate both admirals and Yonkou; that much is certain.

Oh, I fully believe that some Yonkou commanders are capable of stalling admirals. If the powers match in certain way, like Marco and Kizaru, they might even… well, maybe not win, but most certainly tie.

What I refuse to believe is that every Yonkou has at least three guys capable of defeating Admirals. That's just stupid.

And while we are on the topic, I also refuse to believe that Admirals would not stand a chance against any of the Yonkou. Those guys dodged or survived attacks of a monster like Whitebeard. Taking them down should a great feat, not something every Yonkou can casually accomplish.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

... But then again, I'm biased towards Admirals, so anything is possible.

Anyway, back to proper topic. Considering the current situation, who do you think is going to be revealed first: Big Mom, or Kaido?

[RobZilla]

@DollarScholar:

The difference between Marcos Regeneration and Logias is that Logia users cannot use their elemental powers to heal their physical bodies (ie damage taken from haki or while affected by seastone). But Marcos regenerating flames can heal his physical body (see after he tanked Yasakami no Magatana and the wounds on his "human form" legs were healed by his blue flames)

Yeah, I get the difference.

Both have their own additional strengths and disadvantages.

I wouldn't say one is a mile better than the other.

[Spam286]

@RobZilla:

TBH his defence isn't all that different from that of a logia, in fact he's unable to dodge attacks in the same way that Kuzan was able to when Whitebeard stabbed him.

He was hurt by Borsalino's lasers but by the the end of the war, Marco was still in pretty good condition.

Well yeah, Ace's defence was overridden by the class of Sakazuki's powers and Jozu's paramecia defence is nowhere near as good in the first place.

Yeah, it was in an SBS I believe.

Not so sure about Jozu vs Aokiji. Jozu's defence stopped Mihawk's slash, allegedly the strongest in the world. Freezing a diamond is not going to do anything, which means Aokiji won by either overcoming that with haki somehow (sort of like how you can hurt Luffy with blunt haki attacks) or Jozu wasn't quick enough to turn himself, or at least the afflicted parts of himself, into diamond. That comes down to how Jozu's fruit works, whether it's like Luffy and always on or whether it's like Daz Bones and requires activating. (I lean towards the latter given what we saw.) Either way though it points towards Aokiji being the stronger of the two.

[RobZilla]

@Spam286:

Not so sure about Jozu vs Aokiji. Jozu's defence stopped Mihawk's slash, allegedly the strongest in the world. Freezing a diamond is not going to do anything, which means Aokiji won by either overcoming that with haki somehow (sort of like how you can hurt Luffy with blunt haki attacks) or Jozu wasn't quick enough to turn himself, or at least the afflicted parts of himself, into diamond. That comes down to how Jozu's fruit works, whether it's like Luffy and always on or whether it's like Daz Bones and requires activating. (I lean towards the latter given what we saw.) Either way though it points towards Aokiji being the stronger of the two.

Well Jozu's defence seems to have some serious drawbacks, notably his lack of mobility while transformed.

Compared to the defence of a logia, or Marco's Phoenix flames, it's pretty poor.

[Enzeru]

@Darth:

Oh, I fully believe that some Yonkou commanders are capable of stalling admirals. If the powers match in certain way, like Marco and Kizaru, they might even… well, maybe not win, but most certainly tie.

What I refuse to believe is that every Yonkou has at least three guys capable of defeating Admirals. That's just stupid.

And while we are on the topic, I also refuse to believe that Admirals would not stand a chance against any of the Yonkou. Those guys dodged or survived attacks of a monster like Whitebeard. Taking them down should a great feat, not something every Yonkou can casually accomplish.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

... But then again, I'm biased towards Admirals, so anything is possible.

Anyway, back to proper topic. Considering the current situation, who do you think is going to be revealed first: Big Mom, or Kaido?

If each of the Yonkou had three commanders able to pull off such feats, then yeah, the marines' situation would be grim. I might be a bit biased myself, but even I wouldn't overestimate a Yonkou's might that much. I do believe they could defeat an admiral themselves, but it wouldn't be something even close to a casual bout.

Technically Big Mom has been revealed already. We do know what she looks like while in Kaidou's case we only have part of his upper body and a silhouette from a few years ago to go by. Now if I were to guess who will appear as a proper opponent in the story first, I'd say Kaidou (mostly because of all the recent events happening in Dressrosa).

[RobZilla]

@Enzeru:

If each of the Yonkou had three commanders able to pull off such feats, then yeah, the marines' situation would be grim. I might be a bit biased myself, but even I wouldn't overestimate a Yonkou's might that much. I do believe they could defeat an admiral themselves, but it wouldn't be something even close to a casual bout.

Technically Big Mom has been revealed already. We do know what she looks like while in Kaidou's case we only have part of his upper body and a silhouette from a few years ago to go by. Now if I were to guess who will appear as a proper opponent in the story first, I'd say Kaidou (mostly because of all the recent events happening in Dressrosa).

I imagine we'll see Drake delivering Caribou and news of Dressrosa to Kaido then BOOM we finally get to see him.

[Spam286]

@RobZilla:

Well Jozu's defence seems to have some serious drawbacks, notably his lack of mobility while transformed.

Compared to the defence of a logia, or Marco's Phoenix flames, it's pretty poor.

Is he unable to move when he transforms? I wasn't sure about that. If so then yeah, that's a pretty significant drawback.

If we ignore that and look purely at what he can resist though then it's most of the same things Marco or a logia can. Akainu might be able to damage him, but other than that? Diamond isn't as resistant to blunt force as it is to cutting, but a diamond the size of Jozu would still take a hell of a lot of force to break, so functionally the only people I can think of who could overcome his defence without haki are Akainu and Whitebeard. That's only one more weakness than Ace has, and Crocodile's logia defence looks like paper by comparison.

So really the poor comparison only applies because of the limitation you mentioned, which I wasn't sure of.

On a completely unrelated note that occurred to me while writing this, if Kizaru and Jozu teamed up could they create the ultimate rainbow laser disco?

[Darth]

@RobZilla:

Yeah, I get the difference.

Both have their own additional strengths and disadvantages.

I wouldn't say one is a mile better than the other.

Marco get's flight and regeneration, Logias get far greater offensive strenght. All and all, I would say that Marco's fruit is better suited for one-on-one combat, while logias are basically anty-army weapons.

@Enzeru:

If each of the Yonkou had three commanders able to pull off such feats, then yeah, the marines' situation would be grim. I might be a bit biased myself, but even I wouldn't overestimate a Yonkou's might that much. I do believe they could defeat an admiral themselves, but it wouldn't be something even close to a casual bout.

Technically Big Mom has been revealed already. We do know what she looks like while in Kaidou's case we only have part of his upper body and a silhouette from a few years ago to go by. Now if I were to guess who will appear as a proper opponent in the story first, I'd say Kaidou (mostly because of all the recent events happening in Dressrosa).

I saw guys saying that Yonkou can take three admirals at once, and emerge victorious with little difficulty. While I certainly believe Yonkou can defeat an Admiral in one on one fight, I do at the same believe that reverse is also possible. We just have to wait and see, I guess.

I meant more like full on reveal, with complete design and everything. But yeah, I would guess Kaidou as well. My current theory is that we will go to Zou from Dressrosa, and then to Wano, where the confrontantion will take place. But that's just a wild guess at this point.

[RobZilla]

@Spam286:

Is he unable to move when he transforms? I wasn't sure about that. If so then yeah, that's a pretty significant drawback.

If we ignore that and look purely at what he can resist though then it's most of the same things Marco or a logia can. Akainu might be able to damage him, but other than that? Diamond isn't as resistant to blunt force as it is to cutting, but a diamond the size of Jozu would still take a hell of a lot of force to break, so functionally the only people I can think of who could overcome his defence without haki are Akainu and Whitebeard. That's only one more weakness than Ace has, and Crocodile's logia defence looks like paper by comparison.

So really the poor comparison only applies because of the limitation you mentioned, which I wasn't sure of.

On a completely unrelated note that occurred to me while writing this, if Kizaru and Jozu teamed up could they create the ultimate rainbow laser disco?

You're damn right they could, with Apoo providing the soundtrack.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Darth:

Marco get's flight and regeneration, Logias get far greater offensive strenght. All and all, I would say that Marco's fruit is better suited for one-on-one combat, while logias are basically anty-army weapons.

I was talking purely in defensive terms.

Logia's get more flexibility and movement with their defence while Marco's regeneration is more complete.

It's 6 and 2 3's for me personally.

[Darth]

@Spam286:

Is he unable to move when he transforms? I wasn't sure about that. If so then yeah, that's a pretty significant drawback.

If we ignore that and look purely at what he can resist though then it's most of the same things Marco or a logia can. Akainu might be able to damage him, but other than that? Diamond isn't as resistant to blunt force as it is to cutting, but a diamond the size of Jozu would still take a hell of a lot of force to break, so functionally the only people I can think of who could overcome his defence without haki are Akainu and Whitebeard. That's only one more weakness than Ace has, and Crocodile's logia defence looks like paper by comparison.

So really the poor comparison only applies because of the limitation you mentioned, which I wasn't sure of.

On a completely unrelated note that occurred to me while writing this, if Kizaru and Jozu teamed up could they create the ultimate rainbow laser disco?

Ace and Akainu should be able to defeat him, easily.

What people often forget is that diamond is a form of coal. It burns as one when oxygen is available. They would light him up as a candle.

[Enzeru]

What I personally wonder the most about is how Oda is going to have the first Yonkou defeated without making it look unrealistic. Unlike Shichibukai it takes more than a lucky circumstance to defeat one of those entities. So in my eyes Oda will either have 2-3 characters team up to take a Yonkou down or, if he really intends for Luffy to solo one, have the fight happen much later than we'd think (a good 150+- chapters from now). Luffy wants to defeat all of them but Oda can't rush things, otherwise all the build-up and hype surrounding the Yonkou would be wasted.

[RobZilla]

@Enzeru:

What I personally wonder the most about is how Oda is going to have the first Yonkou defeated without making it look unrealistic. Unlike Shichibukai it takes more than a lucky circumstance to defeat one of those entities. So in my eyes Oda will either have 2-3 characters team up to take a Yonkou down or, if he really intends for Luffy to solo one, have the fight happen much later than we'd think (a good 150+- chapters from now). Luffy wants to defeat all of them but Oda can't rush things, otherwise all the build-up and hype surrounding the Yonkou would be wasted.

I think the first Yonko to go down will be a serious team up effort.

The second will be Luffy winning by the skin of his teeth ala versus Lucci.

By the time he fights Teach it'll be a fight for the world and Luffy will emerge as the strongest.

[peeko]

@RobZilla:

I imagine we'll see Drake delivering Caribou and news of Dressrosa to Kaido then BOOM we finally get to see him.

yeah that's very likely