Chapter 734: "Rommel's Whirlwind"

[knceng]

@DarkFalcon:

As far as I remember there using CoO has never been described as "seeing". For sure it has been described as "hearing" and if I'm not mistaken as "sensing".

From what chapter?

@Maju:

naah,it's not that kind of voice..but it's actually how it is called several times in the manga.i'm comparing haki's voices to real coices because they act on the same principles,you can detect someone by hearing them,and you can know their intention by hearing them said it.
then there's ener,but that is another story

That's why i edit my post :ninja:

[DarkFalcon]

@knceng:

From what chapter?

That's why i edit my post :ninja:

unless it's a translation issue Aisa and Coby had been describing it in this way. Of course I'm not claiming that CoO is related to actual hearing, but probably the sensation from CoO is similar to the one from hearing.

edit:
It appares Luffy in chapter 725 expresses opinion Rebecca must be using Color of Observation haki. So if you think that Luffu's testimony is credible, you have to accept Rebecca is able to use CoO
http://www.onemanga.me/one-piece/725/14/

[Mostnamed]

@Spam286:

Fair enough, forgot about that bit. Thanks.

In Rebecca's case it's hard to tell because we only get a couple of panels, but:

! http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/spam286/734p12.png

In the upper right panel it doesn't look like she's looking toward Hakuba. It's hard to tell because he's only represented by the black blur effect, but it looks to me like he's coming at her from her left. In the next panel she's moving her head and her eyes are still forward. Given the time frame for Hakuba's movements, I don't think she's had time to turn and face him, which suggests CoO.

Of course it could just be a case of peripheral vision, but when he was moving so fast that the majority of people couldn't see him at all, CoO becomes the most likely reason that she noticed him.

It still shows us that she has amazing dodging abilities.
A Sword Slash that was most likely traveling faster than a speed of sound.
In the middle panel we see a her helmet starting to get sliced.
She starts moving her head after the sword/slash touches her helmet.
So Distance between the blade and her head was like 1.5CM max.
as i said, she's quite fast.

[Funky]

@knceng:

Love to see peoples complain about Doflamingo doesn't have internet connection to read OP latest chapter and only depend on WG newspaper to find the information of SHC allies

I thought he had access to the newest technology?

[.access timeco.]

@Greg:

As far as his daily health is concerned, aside from the cigs, I assure you, he is 110% fine.

So I guess people can feel free to complain about the breakes without others going "Be considerative! The man is sick!!!" :ninja:

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Enzeru:

So it makes more sense to you that Soldier-san taught her how to dodge and run away instead of teaching her CoO (the logical choice in this case)? Sure, whatever makes you happy, buddy.

And when was Thunder Soldier confirmed a CoO user, again?

The only reason why people consider Rebecca to be a CoO user is because Luffy guessed so, but Luffy said that it was 'probably' Haki based on the comment of someone else about Rebecca never being hit. He didn't even saw she fighting at all, it was just a wild guess and that makes perfect sense since that's how Luffy dodges attackes and that's how his previous enemies (like Enel) could dodge all of his attacks.

But just because Luffy made that wild guess, that makes perfect sense for him based on his experience, doesn't mean he is right. From what we know - and saw from her training - it's the Riku family fighting style that is based on observing and dodging. It could be Haki as well, but is still faaaar from confirmed. So far nothing says they can use CoO, much less are extraordinary users of it.

[knceng]

@Funky:

I thought he had access to the newest technology?

I'm just saying Dofla doesn't have the information we have…

[RobZilla]

@.access:

So I guess people can feel free to complain about the breakes without others going "Be considerative! The man is sick!!!" :ninja:

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

And when was Thunder Soldier confirmed a CoO user, again?

The only reason why people consider Rebecca to be a CoO user is because Luffy guessed so, but Luffy said that it was 'probably' Haki based on the comment of someone else about Rebecca never being hit. He didn't even saw she fighting at all, it was just a wild guess and that makes perfect sense since that's how Luffy dodges attackes and that's how his previous enemies (like Enel) could dodge all of his attacks.

But just because Luffy made that wild guess, that makes perfect sense for him based on his experience, doesn't mean he is right. From what we know - and saw from her training - it's the Riku family fighting style that is based on observing and dodging. It could be Haki as well, but is still faaaar from confirmed. So far nothing says they can use CoO, much less are extraordinary users of it.

Remember that Luffy is able to sense Haki though.

He knew Zoro and Sanji could both use it without being told.

So it might not be as wild a guess as you think.

Girl dodges all attacks + girl has perceivable haki most likely = CoO.

[Nekketsu]

If Rebecca's dodging skills aren't Coo related but something else entirely I'll be even more impressed. It takes some skill, a lot actually, to dodge a slash that is fast and invisible like the wind itself.

And her fighting style is rooted in defeating her opponents without harming them.

[Bigivel]

Who is better at agility and evasion(dodging): Rebecca or Donflamingo?

Will Rebecca end the fun of Burgess by sending him out of the ring?

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@RobZilla:

Remember that Luffy is able to sense Haki though.

He knew Zoro and Sanji could both use it without being told.

So it might not be as wild a guess as you think.

Girl dodges all attacks + girl has perceivable haki most likely = CoO.

How do you know that Luffy can sense Haki?
How do you know that Sanji and Zoro didn't told Luffy off-screen that they know how to use Haki?

[peeko]

@flandrian15:

And yet RobbyBevard keeps on saying that everything is still going according to Doffys plan.

Believe me, I love a good debate but I think it's quite clear he is underestimating the Straw hats.
Crocodile did so too but he might have had good reason. What had the SH's done before Alabasta that was even noteworthy for one like crocodile? For him, the SH's were just nobodies, weaklings in a sea of big names while it has become quite clear that Luffy has become a force to be reckoned with.

He is not saying that. He's sayng that in doflamingo's head, everything is going according to his plan, a really good plan according to what HE knows, not what YOU KNOW. But he said that like 4 times already and you still don't get it.

[knceng]

@Bigivel:

How do you know that Sanji and Zoro didn't told Luffy off-screen that they know how to use Haki?

Luffy already test them in Neptune's palace … (Caribou in Shirahoshi's room), or how they defeat the pacifista.

[Mostnamed]

ofcourse luffy can sense haki. he even said law was alive cause he could still feel his haki or w/e

[yo ho ho ho]

I don't know if this has been said yet, but i think that Cavendish has no idea about his hakuba personality. When he first talks to luffy, he mentions that he never really tried hard to achieve his bounty. I get the feeling that anytime he is hard pressed, he falls asleep and becomes hakuba, then wakes up not knowing what happened.

[The Navigator]

I made a crude gif of Cavendish sleeping…

!

[Mostnamed]

@yo:

I don't know if this has been said yet, but i think that Cavendish has no idea about his hakuba personality. When he first talks to luffy, he mentions that he never really tried hard to achieve his bounty. I get the feeling that anytime he is hard pressed, he falls asleep and becomes hakuba, then wakes up not knowing what happened.

Yeah, I still think it has something to do with his sword but idk.

[Bigivel]

@Mostnamed:

ofcourse luffy can sense haki. he even said law was alive cause he could still feel his haki or w/e

What? No he didn't said nothing of that. He said that still heard his "voice". That was the same thing that Aisa in Skypiea and Coby in Marineford told about everybody. So are you saying that at Skypiea every Strawhat had already haki?

Note: Have a haki that senses people is different than sensing haki!

[Mostnamed]

@Bigivel:

What? No he didn't said nothing of that. He said that still heard his "voice". That was the same thing that Aisa in Skypiea and Coby in Marineford told about everybody. So are you saying that at Skypiea every Strawhat had already haki?

Note: Have a haki that senses people is different than sensing haki!

All i'm saying is that the way i got it is that
Presence = Haki
It's not a direct equality but it's somehow like that.
Everyone has haki(but they don't know how to use it), everyone has presence.
if you're skilled enough to sense someone's presence.
You can also sense their haki. and if you sense their haki you can tell how strong their haki is.

[halt]

@Bigivel:

How do you know that Sanji and Zoro didn't told Luffy off-screen that they know how to use Haki?

After reading the manga, common sense.
@knceng:

Luffy already test them in Neptune's palace … (Caribou in Shirahoshi's room), or how they defeat the pacifista.

That was no test. He just already knew and made nothing special about it, like a captain should.

There were no obvious hints, yet, that one can sense Haki, however you can measure/estimate someone's/-thing's power with it and you can see/sense them using it.
So at very least, at some level of strength you can assume that person can use Haki.

[peeko]

@Greg:

Why's that? Like I said, I was sitting next to him when he first revealed it.

The reason is a perfectly decent one and I think we should leave it at that.

As far as his daily health is concerned, aside from the cigs, I assure you, he is 110% fine.

I'm jealous right now, very jealous. Lol

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Gold:

I think Barto will lose to Sabo or Burgess (Not Rebecca) and when he does, he will blow up the suitcase he left beside Cavendish earlier and use the panic to steal the Mera Mera no Mi.

I thought the suitcase was full of strawhat reliated articles and pictures and stuff, but that's just me

[Mostnamed]

@peeko:

I thought the suitcase was full of strawhat reliated articles and pictures and stuff, but that's just me

Lol… Same with me.

[peeko]

@desa:

Seems to me that they were taking there chances because Cavendish fell asleep. But your interpration is probably more valid thsan mine. I still think I'm right because of the describtion of the rumor, the marines and the crowd ignoring what happened and Sabo's comment finishing with a "but"

Yea i saw it like you, but i think shadow's right about this one, maybe they did know what was coming

[Kizuchan]

@TheGreatestSwordsman:

I think you're going to get over the fact that a lot of people see someone fighting in a coliseum with the plan to eventually beat a monster without even attempting to hit them, but rather push them out of the ring as completely idiotic. Having then someone do all heavy lifting and beating all the strong contenders then conveniently going to sleep instead of continuing to strike her as a silly plot device.. which could very likely continue with her being the winner of the free for all next round thanks to the power of her speed, impressive CoO & unique fighting style.. sorry I meant to say plot device.

The thing is that it was established that the whole royal family's thing is to peaceful, as the country had been in peace for 800 years. I'd also call plot device, but he sliced up everyone else, too. Including some other female gladiators. Plus, her thing being that she never gets hit. which was countered by having her hit(by a male character, too). It really doesn't seem that strong of an argument this time around.
The two things to critize are probably that she's another "fragile, but skilled" type of character and that she has a revealing outfit, but everything else is fine. Character-wise she was handled fine, as it is in line with what we have learned about her in-story. She's good at what she does - being the only one noticing Hakuba's movements and managing to almost avoid it. It's a very nicely balanced outcome.

[peeko]

@Taggerung:

]You could just as easily assume that because Cavendish is one of the top contender for the prize the moment he showed weakness and fell asleep during the middle of fight some of them would be alarmed and confused like Rebecca and others would try to capitalize on it. Judging from Bastille's comments Hakuba isn't a well known thing, none of the marines accompanying him knew about it and it's their job to hunt pirates. It's Cavendish that is famous not to mention that even if they knew that Cavendish was Hakuba unless they were monitoring him like the Marines they wouldn't know what the trigger for that transformation would be or if he even needed a trigger. To imply that the contestants not only knew that Cavendish was Hakuba but also knew what his trigger would be and made no preparations before the match and made no move to switch to a defensive stance after they noticed him falling asleep insist that they didn't know what was going on and their expressions are both alarm and confusion at a man who many thought could win the entire torny dropping for no reason right before them.

Unless Luffy is going to go through another training phase or there is going to be another time skip I don't think Luffy's power will increase by leagues by the time they face off against a Yonkou's crew. The goal at the end of this arc is Kaidou. They're currently being chased by Big Mom's crew and they have just sent her a bomb. One way or another they're about to head up against a Yonkou's main crew very very soon. I'm not saying Nami is going to take them on and Sanji could barely handle Vergo (even though Vergo was of the same rank as Pica, Diamante, and Trebol) but Luffy and Zoro should be able to stand up to people like Burgess at this point otherwise they're picking fights with people they can't beat.

GOOD counter, i dont know what to think of it now, thanks to you lol

[King Cannon]

@RobZilla:

Remember that Luffy is able to sense Haki though.

He knew Zoro and Sanji could both use it without being told.

So it might not be as wild a guess as you think.

Girl dodges all attacks + girl has perceivable haki most likely = CoO.

While I don't know if Luffy can sense Haki (in Law and Rebecca's case, he was assuming), I have to ask this:

How is Luffy able to sense stuff that happens on TV?

[Enzeru]

@.access:

So I guess people can feel free to complain about the breakes without others going "Be considerative! The man is sick!!!" :ninja:

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

And when was Thunder Soldier confirmed a CoO user, again?

The only reason why people consider Rebecca to be a CoO user is because Luffy guessed so, but Luffy said that it was 'probably' Haki based on the comment of someone else about Rebecca never being hit. He didn't even saw she fighting at all, it was just a wild guess and that makes perfect sense since that's how Luffy dodges attackes and that's how his previous enemies (like Enel) could dodge all of his attacks.

But just because Luffy made that wild guess, that makes perfect sense for him based on his experience, doesn't mean he is right. From what we know - and saw from her training - it's the Riku family fighting style that is based on observing and dodging. It could be Haki as well, but is still faaaar from confirmed. So far nothing says they can use CoO, much less are extraordinary users of it.

Anything but Haki would come as one big (and unlikely) surprise. If it needs to be spelled out for some people to believe it, then that's fine too. But it's pretty apparent to me.

[knceng]

@halt:

That was no test. He just already knew and made nothing special about it, like a captain should.

Of course it wasn't a test, it's just a figure of speech. It's mean that the scene at Neptune Palace tell us (the reader) that Luffy knew Sanji and Zoro both are Haki user.

@.access:

From what we know - and saw from her training - it's the Riku family fighting style that is based on observing and dodging. It could be Haki as well, but is still faaaar from confirmed. So far nothing says they can use CoO, much less are extraordinary users of it.

Can't say it's Riku family fighting style, observing and dodging were specialized for Rebecca's training because she refuse(?) to do the attack training.

[RobZilla]

@King:

While I don't know if Luffy can sense Haki (in Law and Rebecca's case, he was assuming), I have to ask this:

How is Luffy able to sense stuff that happens on TV?

Luffy spent a good portion of time with Rebecca prior to her match, with the lunchbox skirmish and all.

If he can sense haki like I think he can, like in the case with Sanji and Zoro, then he'd have been able to sense it then.

He was also able to gauge Isshou's strength just from being around him too.

It's not exactly wild to think Luffy can sense haki.

[halt]

@Shadowgreed:

Look at that scene again and you'll noticed that everyone except for Rebeca knew right away what was going, that's why three guys jumped him at once and Suleiman attacked him right away, you can also see it by their expression as soon as Cavendish starts acting weird.

The only thing that might suggest some knew about Hakuba is the half page with some fighters looking at the sleeping Cavendish
So it's possible some knew what was about to happen but so far the most likely and obvious interpretation is that they only noticed an important opponent falling asleep and tried to finish him right away.
Suleiman attacked him because Cavendish stumbled right between him and Rebecca. In that context his grim face after Cavendish finally fall asleep just shows him being surprised about it.

[peeko]

@Maju:

never said there is a rule about that:wassat:.
but the fact that someone can dodge with his eyes closed with observation haki,means that the "voice" or "presence" carries some informations about the attack that the opponent is going to do,so CoO doesn't detect only the "presence" of someone.
and if said information is carried by the CoO,it means that you don't have to see the opponent with your eyes,but it's what rebecca had to do to see hakuba in this chapter,we can see her try to focus her eyes and see hakuba's movement.
also sabo himself said that she "saw" the attack

and anyway,i'm not saying i'm totally sure it is not observation haki,just that there's the possibility that she is just really good at what she focused all her life,speed and dodging.

for anything more than that,we need Oda

It's very possible that she felt it with CoO and instinctively looked at what she felt, that's how i saw it

[Shadowgreed]

@Triceron:

Hakuba.

@desa:

Cavendish

@Taggerung:

Awakes

This is a rumor that reached the revolutionaries and the marines, I'm pretty sure that it reached a lot of Pirates too since according to Bastille this sort of attack happens every time Cavendish visits a town and Cavendish have been in the New World for quite some time now, so is pretty understandable that those guys heard about this rumors and seen Cavendish acting weird they just took their chances before something happen, which was the confirmation to their worries also If it wasn't as I said, there were no reasons at all for Oda show the faces of Orlumbus and Suleiman worry as fuck as If their lifes were in danger.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@halt:

The only thing that might suggest some knew about Hakuba is the half page with some fighters looking at the sleeping Cavendish
So it's possible some knew what was about to happen but so far the most likely and obvious interpretation is that they only noticed an important opponent falling asleep and tried to finish him right away.
Suleiman attacked him because Cavendish stumbled right between him and Rebecca. In that context his grim face after Cavendish finally fall asleep just shows him being surprised about it.

Are you telling me that the face that Suleiman has after Cavendish fall sleep is the face of a surprise suleiman, that guy loks worry as shit dude

[King Cannon]

@RobZilla:

Luffy spent a good portion of time with Rebecca prior to her match, with the lunchbox skirmish and all.

If he can sense haki like I think he can, like in the case with Sanji and Zoro, then he'd have been able to sense it then.

He was also able to gauge Isshou's strength just from being around him too.

It's not exactly wild to think Luffy can sense haki.

Of course not. The problem I have is that Luffy himself didn't sound too sure about Law and Rebecca having Haki, which makes the whole thing ambiguous to me.

[RobZilla]

@King:

Of course not. The problem I have is that Luffy himself didn't sound too sure about Law and Rebecca having Haki, which makes the whole thing ambiguous to me.

It's a pretty ambiguous subject, yeah.

Maybe they can sense the haki of said person, but that doesn't determine whether the person can actually manipulate it at will.

Like Teach was apparently able to sense that Luffy's haki had increased when they met in Impel Down, although Luffy at this point had no idea how to actually control it.

He may have been uncertain about Law's ability to wield haki, rather than having it in the first place. In fact, that he even got to the point of asking Law about his haki usage does seem to suggest the ability to sense it.

So maybe it's a case of sense haki then see evidence that suggests haki usage, 2 + 2.

[X-Ray]

This post is deleted!

[huron]

how can king Riku remember his granddaughter when the memory of his son(Rebecca father) has been erased by Sugar?

[yagreor]

Luffy knew Zoro and Sanji could use Haki from the talk all the SHs had when they were on board Sunny right after TS. They (Zoro & Sanji) told him they could use Haki, Zoro told everybody how he lost his eye, and also other stuff regarding each one new techniques.
That's the logical thing to do after they don't seeing each other for two years. Oda, I think, didn't want to reveal all of the stuff in a simple chat. He reserved it for the figths FI, PH and incoming arcs.

[X-Ray]

@peeko:

you are completly clueless as to what robby is saying

And that is why I explained in a later post that I misread. Keep scrolling sir!

[King Cannon]

@huron:

how can king Riku remember his granddaughter when the memory of his son(Rebecca father) has been erased by Sugar?

Because the Toy Soldier is not Riku's son.

Riku is Rebecca's maternal grandfather.

[huron]

@King:

Because the Toy Soldier is not Riku's son.

even so,its hard to explain.is Riku not wondering about who is the father of his granddaughter?

[King Cannon]

@huron:

even so,its hard to explain.is Riku not wondering about who is the father of his granddaughter?

Probably not. The people of Dressrosa just think "whatever".

[RobZilla]

@huron:

even so,its hard to explain.is Riku not wondering about who is the father of his granddaughter?

There doesn't seem to be massive gaps just left in people's memories, they seem to forge modified memories for themselves that make sense.

Like Chinjao recalling that he's still head of the Happou Navy in place of Sai. There wasn't just a big gap where Sai previously was.

[Spam286]

The whole memory thing is one we're going to have to accept without thinking about it too hard. Memories of people tend to be too interlinked for it not to be obvious when there are gaps. Like, presumably the people Kyros fought in the arena would remember the things they did but not the person involved. Or assuming Scarlet and Kyros were married, the people who attended the wedding would remember doing so but only remember the bride.

The alternative is that all situations involving the forgotten person are forgotten, in which case there would be massive gaps in people's memories that they can't account for. Entire days in which the person can't remember what they did. Events, like Kyros, but much more obvious, that have no explanation. Imagine you asked someone to build you a house and then they got turned into a toy. You'd have no idea where the house came from but remember the bits around it being built. Or suppose someone you're living with buys a dog and then gets toyed and suddenly you have this dog for no reason at all. A few things like that might get dismissed, but given the number of toys there are vast, overlapping swathes of people's memories missing. It's hard to believe they wouldn't be able to figure out what's going on between them.

[huron]

ok so one man came by night and had a short time with the princess,then escaped
consequence,the princess had a daughter
it makes sense

[.access timeco.]

@knceng:

Can't say it's Riku family fighting style, observing and dodging were specialized for Rebecca's training because she refuse(?) to do the attack training.

I am assuming is part of their style because that's how Ricky fought: he dodged attacks with overwhelming speed and then attacked (Thunder Soldier seems to fight the same way and Kyros could be the same as we know in all his years as a gladiator he was hit only once).

What is unique to Rebecca is that she only dodges, never attacking.

[Schopper]

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but who is Rommel ? And could Carvendish be related to Kuro (same technique) ?

[King Cannon]

@Schopper:

Sorry if this question has been asked before, but who is Rommel ? And could Carvendish be related to Kuro (same technique) ?

A British-themed kingdom. Probably Cavendish's homeland.

[Hy4000uk]

what do people think doflamingo's ultimate fate will be?

assuming he goes down and is exposed, he'll have both Kaido and the marines gunning for him

what are his options?

[flandrian15]

@peeko:

He is not saying that. He's sayng that in doflamingo's head, everything is going according to his plan, a really good plan according to what HE knows, not what YOU KNOW. But he said that like 4 times already and you still don't get it.

Well, in my defense he did say everything is still going according to plan, not specifically in Doflamingo's head. Doffy seems to have a blatant disregard for certain factors and is too confident that all will work out according to his plans while the Sh's are close to the factory they are planning to destroy, have a good chance of not letting Burgess get the fruit and are closing in on stomping Doflamingo. What Doffy wants is Mononosuke but he isn't even close in that regard, sitting on his ass waiting until everything magically works out, underestimating the SH's power. he should've better stayed at the factory himself although that might have been a bit problematic with Fujitora there and all but he did ask Fujitora to come with him so maybe Fuji would've done something entirely different than coming with him if he hadn't asked…

Oh, and I did get it (don't tell me what I get or don't get. I think I'm a better judge at that than you are). It just doesn't make sense seeing Doffy only knows the whereabouts of about half of the SH's (of which only Frankys is right but he doesn't know that) and isn't including Law's crew. How could he ever think he has enough info to know everything is going well? Also, if Bellamy knows there's a way out of the Colosseum than Doffy should know as well that there is a real possibility of Luffy getting out...

[Shadowgreed]

@flandrian15:

**Well, in my defense he did say everything is still going according to plan, not specifically in Doflamingo's head. Doffy seems to have a blatant disregard for certain factors and is too confident that all will work out according to his plans while the Sh's are close to the factory they are planning to destroy, have a good chance of not letting Burgess get the fruit and are closing in on stomping Doflamingo. What Doffy wants is Mononosuke but he isn't even close in that regard, sitting on his ass waiting until everything magically works out, underestimating the SH's power. he should've better stayed at the factory himself although that might have been a bit problematic with Fujitora there and all but he did ask Fujitora to come with him so maybe Fuji would've done something entirely different than coming with him if he hadn't asked…

Oh, and I did get it (don't tell me what I get or don't get. I think I'm a better judge at that than you are). It just doesn't make sense seeing Doffy only knows the whereabouts of about half of the SH's (of which only Frankys is right but he doesn't know that) and isn't including Law's crew. How could he ever think he has enough info to know everything is going well? Also, if Bellamy knows there's a way out of the Colosseum than Doffy should know as well that there is a real possibility of Luffy getting out...**

[flandrian15]

my god that's an annoying gif

[knceng]

@Hy4000uk:

what do people think doflamingo's ultimate fate will be?

assuming he goes down and is exposed, he'll have both Kaido and the marines gunning for him

what are his options?

… ... Impel Down?