ttimey wimey???? .
It's complicated.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Anyone catch the easter egg at the begining? The school that Clara was working at?
ttimey wimey???? .
It's complicated.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Anyone catch the easter egg at the begining? The school that Clara was working at?
It's complicated.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Anyone catch the easter egg at the begining? The school that Clara was working at?
Or that the head of governers was
! Ian Chesterton?
@Print:
Or that the head of governers was
! Ian Chesterton?
That's what I was referring to. Good show.
Yeah…this was kinda sloppily written. There were a lot of moments I liked especially the ending which was freakin' cool but overall the whole thing was clumsy.
! The whole story was so unfocused and meandering, they spent so much time on the Zygan subplot, like 80% of the episode and then just dropping it just like that, no resolution or anything, it was just there to…give them something to do until we got to the actual heart of the story. It was just a waste of time really. And this was the 50th anniversary and it was mostly filler. Wouldn't it have been so much cooler (and this is just an idea off the top of my head) if the story was something like Tennant and Smith are somehow teleported to war-torn Gallifrey and we spent the entire episode exploring Gallifrey and its culture and its citizens and the repercussions of the war. And Smith and Tennant decide to use this as an opportunity to stop John Hurt from stealing the Moment (even though they know it's futile) but John Hurt is this obsessed soldier determined to complete his mission no matter what (and he could have a character arc involving him slowly doubting his actions as he's convinced by the other doctors). Meanwhile the other Doctors know John Hurt is right and this is all pointless but try anyway. John Hurt succeeds in stealing it, there could be epic action sequences, you can introduce Daleks into the mix. It could climax in the exact same way, John Hurt hating himself but determined to do it anyway, Smith and Tennant begrudgingly agreeing with him but then they have their brainwave etc etc, the climax could be exactly the same only we could spend a chunk of the episode actually getting invested in Gallifrey so we're more emotionally connected to the climax, getting invested in the problem, getting really invested in the plight of the doctors where the decision feels like the proper epic climax of the episode. Instead of focusing mostly on stupid, pointless octopus people? And have that awesome climax feel like the culmination of an episode's worth of story build-up and not something the episode was putting off from doing to pad time?
! This is just an idea, I'm not saying they had to do this, I'm simply pointing out that after all this hype and all the countless things they could have done, it's sad that I could come up with a more interesting, more relevant to the main plot sort of idea than...octopus people...
Okay, wow. Lots of thoughts and spoilers and ideas in the spoilers.
! First of all… WOW! That was seriously good.
! I need to start with saying that I did not mind the Zygon's getting as much screen time as they did. It was great that the brought back an old, somewhat obscure monster. Way better than coming up with something new like the Whisper Men, am I right? I liked Ten's interaction with Elizabeth, I thought the Zygon's in general was quite freaky and scary (that weird blood thing seeping out of their mouths kinda creeped me out).
! So... about Billie Piper. Or rather, Bad Wolf? Well, I know it was the OS of the Moment, I would just assume that it somehow looked into the Doctor's future and chose an appearance that he had close to his heart. I do like the idea that even though the War Doctor might have forgotten about Gallifrey actually being saved and all that, traces of the Moment lingered on in his head, leading him to subconsciously want to rescue a young girl named Rose. Quite a cool thought.
! The three Doctor's in general had awesome chemistry together, they all played off each other wonderfully. While Clara was admittedly a bit absent during the episode, I really liked her talk with 8.5. And speaking of 8.5... is he now officially the Ninth Doctor? The ending certainly made it out to seem that way, especially when the Time Lords said that all thirteen of them were there. If so... it's gonna be a bit annoying having to call Eccleston 10, Tennant 11, and so on. A bit weird indeed.
! Speaking of Eccleston, why, WHY couldn't he just make a quick two second cameo in the regeneration. Yeah, sure, I know you don't want to be type cast, but come ON! Especially in the very last scene where everyone besides Smith, Tennant and Hurt were just photoshopped in. Quite lazy, and I've offically lost all respect for Eccleston. I mean, at least Davison, Baker and McCoy wanted to be in it so badly. So... I guess I blame Moffat as well!
! While some cameos was left out, the cameos we got were great. I literally screamed out in joy when we got to see Capaldi's eyes, and when the best Doctor of all time, Tom Baker stepped out, I really did start to cry. Such a beautiful scene.
! Overall, great episode with lots of nods and winks to the old series, just as a celebratory episode should be.
"Instead of focusing mostly on stupid, pointless octopus people?"
Zygons are a classic, you shut up.
The entire point was showing the Doctor having a normal outing like he always days, saving lives and bringing hope, having fun with the girls he's around, and… being a good guy. You don't spend the anniversary special in a horrific war torn pit of depression and despair. (The DETAILS of the time war are best left to your imagination anyway.)
Anyway, that was pretty spot on.
! Far more emotional, personal and character driven than I thought it would be. Loved the photo wall, very nice way of homaging what came before without jarringly tyring to ram in everyone.
! (As opposed to a silly romp like Five Doctors was. Now, I love the Five Doctors, but lets face it… it's a pretty silly romp.)
! Shame they couldn't get Eccleston to do even a 10 second cameo, but they worked it as close as they could.
! The curator was great. His cameo was the bit that was spoiled in the newpapers a couple days ago that I warned everyone about, btw.
! The three Doctor's in general had awesome chemistry together, they all played off each other wonderfully. While Clara was admittedly a bit absent during the episode, I really liked her talk with 8.5. And speaking of 8.5… is he now officially the Ninth Doctor? The ending certainly made it out to seem that way, especially when the Time Lords said that all thirteen of them were there. If so... it's gonna be a bit annoying having to call Eccleston 10, Tennant 11, and so on. A bit weird indeed.
No.
! The doctors won't remember they're counting him now. They'll still remember him burning the planet. he's still the Warrior.
! Gallifrey may have been counting him because he's still the same man, but he was not using the Doctor title for that incarnation.
! The old numbering and merchandising remains intact. With a caveat. The doctor number now matches the regen number.
@RobbyBevard:
"Instead of focusing mostly on stupid, pointless octopus people?"
Zygons are a classic, you shut up.
Anyway, that was pretty spot on.
! Far more emotional, personal and character driven than I thought it would be. Loved the photo wall, very nice way of homaging what came before without jarringly tyring to ram in everyone.
! (As opposed to a silly romp like Five Doctors was. Now, I love the Five Doctors, but lets face it… it's a pretty stupid romp.)
! Shame they couldn't get Eccleston to do even a 10 second cameo, but they worked it as close as they could.
! The curator was great. His cameo was the bit that was spoiled in the newpapers a couple days ago that I warned everyone about, btw.No.
! The doctors won't remember they're counting him now. They'll still remember him burning the planet. he's still the Warrior.
! Gallifrey may have been counting him because he's still the same man, but he was not using the Doctor title for that incarnation.
! The old numbering and merchandising remains intact. With a caveat.
Well maybe they don't remember him and consider him a number….BUT!
! He still counts as a regeneration, which means Smith is the 12th regeneration. According to the current show logic, timelords only get 12, so Smith should be the last. I'm curious how they change this in the Christmas special or at the very least address it.
This was great. I was worried for the first half because everything was very by the numbers, but then everything clicked and the second half was full of amazing moments, both emotional and kick-ass.
@RobbyBevard:
No.
! The doctors won't remember they're counting him now. They'll still remember him burning the planet. he's still the Warrior.
! Gallifrey may have been counting him because he's still the same man, but he was not using the Doctor title for that incarnation.
! The old numbering and merchandising remains intact. With a caveat. The doctor number now matches the regen number.
! The numbering system has never actually been used in the show though, that's just something for the fans. When Hurt was revealed to be an incarnation of the man known as the Doctor, and then eventually that he wasn't worthy of the name "The Doctor", everyone assumed that something was up. But as everyone watching the show now knows, he is the Ninth Doctor. After Eight, before Ten. He officially became acknowledged as the Doctor by his future incarnations, basically writing it in stone whether or not they remember it. Especially when they showed him at the end, standing alongside the other Doctors.
Speaking of Mcoy, Davison and Baker wanting to be in the special. They made this,The five(ish)doctors(how do you give a link a name?)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01m3kfy
! The numbering system has never actually been used in the show though, that's just something for the fans. When Hurt was revealed to be an incarnation of the man known as the Doctor, and then eventually that he wasn't worthy of the name "The Doctor", everyone assumed that something was up. But as everyone watching the show now knows, he is the Ninth Doctor. After Eight, before Ten. He officially became acknowledged as the Doctor by his future incarnations, basically writing it in stone whether or not they remember it. Especially when they showed him at the end, standing alongside the other Doctors.
Ack, I forgot one of the most important thing.
! In the credits, when all their faces are flashing by, Hurt appears between McGann and Eccleston. So yeah.
Not going to nitpick. Nothing made fucking sense by the end, and devolved into insane torrent of fanservice.
But it was mighty awesome and fangasm inducing, so who cares?
Also preview seems to imply that spoilers were true. I managed to spoil whole christmas special for myself. Ouch.
Not going to nitpick. Nothing made fucking sense by the end, and devolved into insane torrent of fanservice.
But it was mighty awesome and fangasm inducing, so who cares?Also preview seems to imply that spoilers were true. I managed to spoil whole christmas special for myself. Ouch.
What spoilers? If you mean about Smilth leaving then yeah I think we all know that. Is there something more specific?
If you guys haven't seen The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot yet… I pity you. Go. Do it.
What spoilers? If you mean about Smilth leaving then yeah I think we all know that. Is there something more specific?
Yes. There are basically whole plot of christmas special out there. I didn't believe it's possible to have such detailed spoiler so early, and read it.
And then preview confirmed couple of things from that spoiler. Well damn.
@RobbyBevard:
No.
! The doctors won't remember they're counting him now. They'll still remember him burning the planet. he's still the Warrior.
! Gallifrey may have been counting him because he's still the same man, but he was not using the Doctor title for that incarnation.
! The old numbering and merchandising remains intact. With a caveat. The doctor number now matches the regen number.
But
! But he called himself 13 there at the end. Timelords: "All 12 of them" Capaldi: "All 13."
–-------
So this was amazing. I loved every second of it. However, I have a couple of questions:
! Tennant's run ended with the Timelords returning from the Timelock, so why would Smith think it failed? Also, why is it that they remember themselves using The Moment if they've always prevented it in the end?
And finally, going forward from here
! DO you think they're still in the Doctor's timestream? That's where the season ended, but we have no idea how they got out. It also seemed like the footage kept cutting back to that place for a second every now and then. It would explain why the Doctor would go back to Trenzalore: he hasn't left.
But yeah, amazingness all the way through.
@Nex:
! Tennant's run ended with the Timelords returning from the Timelock, so why would Smith think it failed? Also, why is it that they remember themselves using The Moment if they've always prevented it in the end?
I think a guy I saw on tumblr explained this best
!
**WHOVIANS WHO DIDN’T LIKE THE 50TH:**To those of you complaining that the End of Time’s ending no longer makes sense, I would like to point out that it, in fact, does. The above picture is a screenshot of the Master’s page in regards to the end of time. You can read the full page here: [[URL="http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Master"]x]
First things first, the Master and the Doctor destroyed a link between Earth and the then thought to be time-locked Gallifrey. A LINK. Not all of Gallifrey, as I’ve seen a few posts claiming. This sent them, and potentially the Master as well, “back into hell” of the final day of the Time War.
As far as the council knew, it WAS the final day of the time war. The council, as you might have noticed, was not in this episode. Probably specifically for this reason. They were too busy securing a safe escape for themselves through the White-Point Star. AND I QUOTE FROM THE EPISODE, "The High Council is in emergency session - they have plans of their own." THIS LINE WAS VERY MUCH INTENTIONAL. In fact, the whole story line of the Master and the White-Point Star link could easily have gone down before the planet was stashed away by the doctors. In fact, that story line could run parallel to the Doctor trying to decide whether or not to destroy Gallifrey.
Now there are some saying, “BUT THE GUILT HE FELT WASN’T EVEN REAL.” No, it was real. As was stated in the episode, when they reentered their own time streams, the War Doctor and Ten individually forgot. And even if Eleven were to forget, Clara’s timeline was not changed, and therefore she would easily be able to remember and fill the Doctor in. It’s also why Eleven didn’t remember when he ran into Ten - because to his memory as Ten, it hadn’t happened to him. Getting back to the guilt, when the War Doctor (or 8.5 as some are calling him) woke up as nine, his planet would be gone. The last thing he would have remembered before crossing into the time streams would be trying to decide. His planet and all the Daleks are gone and only he remains, just as the Moment told him would be his fate if he chose to burn Gallifrey. And what can he find of his home? Nothing. So, naturally, he would assume that he chose to do it and that he killed his people, thus triggering the guilt in Russel T. Davies’ storyline.
TLDR: MOFFAT DID NOT IGNORE THE END OF TIME. PLEASE STOP.
Well damn. That was freaking fantastic.
Thanks Shuhan, that makes a lot of sense.
But wait, so what's this I hear about spoilers for the Christmas-special? Does this mean that I'm gonna have to continue avoiding Doctor Who related discussions for another month?
I have a feeling that the DVD of this episode will be filled a ton of Cut material.
I get the feeling a lot had to be cut (Including some of the Zygon stuff to make it fit TV) But will satisfy a lot of Whovians who no doubt will buy and watch the DVD looking for everything they can.
I finally realized which detail bugs me the most.
! Scale of war. Which was supposed to include whole wide universe, and would eventually bring destruction everywhere.
And then usage of Moment destroyed great portion of space, so time lords and daleks were all gone.
! But now, it turns out that Gallifrey went into stasis, and daleks were destroyed by single chain reaction of explosions from their own shots.
And with one single planet and single fleet gone, universal war somehow ended, leaving no survivors. And that was the case for 8 years.
! In Dalek, we were told there are no survivors, except single damaged dalek.
Then there was Emperor, who was hiding so long he went insane.
Then Cult, who were safe outside of universe. And then Caan brought Davros back.
In the end couple of survivors managed to create "power ranger" daleks. And only then, they recreated parliament.
! Meanwhile, all of Time lords are gone, except two renegades.
One finished them all, other had to hide at the end of universe.
! So, they are implying that there were 99% of daleks, and all time lords (except for Master) were on Gallifrey that night. So much for universal war.
Which I for some reason find hard to believe, and would like this point to be explained.
Also, about spoilers.
They supposedly came from GB, and are posted fairly often in some disscussions.
Whole synopsis looks fairly accurate, especially after teaser, so I would be very careful, if I were you.
There are couple of interesting turns, which are better left unknown.
Just gave Day a rewatch, and this time noticed the first doctor talking "to the war council of Gallifrey".
I was too into the story to realise the first time, but of course William Hartnell never uttered those words, and sure enough when checking the credits Moffat got John Guilor - who voiced the first doctor for the planet of giants dvd - to do that line. Great stuff.
Just gave Day a rewatch, and this time noticed the first doctor talking "to the war council of Gallifrey".
I was too into the story to realise the first time, but of course William Hartnell never uttered those words, and sure enough when checking the credits Moffat got John Guilor - who voiced the first doctor for the planet of giants dvd - to do that line. Great stuff.
Its either him or maybe David Bradley who played Hartnell in the biopic about the start of Doctor Who, either way that last 15 minutes was a fan's dream.
EDIT-and holy sh*t I just realized who David Bradley is….freaking Filch, I watched that movie twice and not once did I realize who it was.
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
I also just thought of one thing in hindsight that would have sent the entire fanbase into an absolute frenzy.
What if they never announced Smith was leaving?
! Then everyone sees the "All 13" moment, everyone would have lost their minds.
For the record, I'm fine with Hurt being Doctor 9 and pushing the others up a notch. (just look at Bobart.) But the explanation is there for people who feel thrown off at ou raudience count having been off this whole time.
Pretty much covered by the doctor himself not accepting it until now.
I finally realized which detail bugs me the most.
! Scale of war. Which was supposed to include whole wide universe, and would eventually bring destruction everywhere.
And then usage of Moment destroyed great portion of space, so time lords and daleks were all gone.
! But now, it turns out that Gallifrey went into stasis, and daleks were destroyed by single chain reaction of explosions from their own shots.
And with one single planet and single fleet gone, universal war somehow ended, leaving no survivors. And that was the case for 8 years.
! In Dalek, we were told there are no survivors, except single damaged dalek.
Then there was Emperor, who was hiding so long he went insane.
Then Cult, who were safe outside of universe. And then Caan brought Davros back.
In the end couple of survivors managed to create "power ranger" daleks. And only then, they recreated parliament.
! Meanwhile, all of Time lords are gone, except two renegades.
One finished them all, other had to hide at the end of universe.
! So, they are implying that there were 99% of daleks, and all time lords (except for Master) were on Gallifrey that night. So much for universal war.
Which I for some reason find hard to believe, and would like this point to be explained.
Final battle. All forces were drawn together for one last showdown. When the enemy has gathered all its forces to attack your home base, you gather together all your forces to try and stop them.
Where apparently the Daleks were totally on the verge of winning.
I wonder if all the abominations were there?
I would quite like to see the "nightmare child" one day. Although I always assumed it was a Great Vampire that Rassilon had captured & controlled.
I wonder if all the abominations were there?
I would quite like to see the "nightmare child" one day. Although I always assumed it was a Great Vampire that Rassilon had captured & controlled.
Maybe they were there but in another timeline where instead of the Daleks besieging them it was the abominations, so that the Time lords couldn't just escape into another timeline.
Just finished The Romans and despite the fact you all are just gonna ignore me and keep talking about the Anniversay episode, I'm still gonna write what I thought of it anyway :ninja:
It was good, it could have been alot longer given the setting but I suppose they wanted to keep it simple for Vicki's first proper story ? I do like the fact of each group having their seperate adventures and the Doctor being the one left clueless about something for once. I did find the fact of the slave overseer guy, who helped Barbara escape, being a Christian, insinuating that's why he has some morals instead of those silly pagans worshipping their false idols, was a little predictable and maybe a tad bit irritating, but I don't think any actual malice was at the heart of things. On the other side, Nero was depicted as mostly a gullible simpleton, and only ever starts to do arc villain-like things in episode 3. Mind you it'd be even more unusual if they didn't spread that old "Nero burned down Rome" myth but this was the 60's.
Mind you this story has me completely clueless on how Barbara and Ian can communicate with people speaking latin when the Doctor's nowhere in sight.
! Genesis of the Daleks
Pyramids of Mars
City of Death
The Dalek Invasion of Earth
The Pilot
The Three Doctors
Robots of Death
The Daleks
The Romans
Planet of Giants
The Brain of Morbius
Reign of Terror
The Edge of Destruction
100 000 BC
The Face of Evil
Spearhead from Space
Day of the Daleks
The Curse of Peladon
The Mutants
The Daemons
The Silurians
The Keys of Marinus
Inferno
Colony in Space
The Green Death
The Ambassadors of Death
Revenge of the Cybermen
Revelation of the Daleks
Remembrance of the Daleks
The Hand of Fear
The Masque of Mandragora
Battlefield
The Sensorites
The Android Invasion
Attack of the Cybermen
Terror of the Zygons
The Sea Devils
Ghost Light
The Aztecs
Marco Polo
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
Dragonfire
The Curse of Fenric
The Rescue
The Sontaran Experiment
The Mark of the Rani
Planet of Evil
The Time Warrior
The Time Monster
The Claws of Axos
The Mind of Evil
Terror of the Autons
Meglos
Vengeance on Varos
Kinda
Mawdryn Undead
Carnival of Monsters
Planet of Fire
Timelash
The Twin Dilemma
The Creature from the Pit
Happiness Patrol
Time and the Rani
Silver Nemesis
Delta and the Bannermen
Paradise Towers
Nightmare of Eden
Image of the Fendahl
Because the tardis recognises them as passengers.
Romans ties with Aztecs for my favourite historical, although I'm still hoping that sometime soon I may get to change that with Marco Polo or The Crusades
Because the tardis recognises them as passengers.
Romans ties with Aztecs for my favourite historical, although I'm still hoping that sometime soon I may get to change that with Marco Polo or The Crusades
Not sure about Marco Polo. Marco's a bit of a dick and there's a bit too much of Tegana trying to off people and failing and changing locations.
It's always hard to tell with just the audio. Recons are nice, but at the end of the day you're not getting the experience the original director intended.
It's always hard to tell with just the audio. Recons are nice, but at the end of the day you're not getting the experience the original director intended.
Actually I can't think of how it being recons could affect any of those three things :P
They don't per se, but they can lift the rest of the episode by good camera angles, set design, acting, etc, etc, thereby mitigating them.
Whether or not that happened is another matter, but the bbc is pretty masterful at costume dramas, so…
Just watched the Five(ish) Doctors. Moffat was not wrong when he said it'd be awkward to have those guys in costume again at their ages. It really was. (Though I wonder how much of that tounge and cheek was in referring to the special which hadn't yet been announced when he gave that quote.) It was okay for a humorous special where that was the entire point that they looked old and silly, but it would have been downright awful to try and take it seriously. (Timecrash was okay as it was just a 4 minute for charity short)
But it was all in the spirit of fun and had enough other folks involved with the franchise history, new and old, and actual on-set counterpoints and footage, it feels like a legitimate addendum to the 50th. Biggest laugh was
! Tom Baker's bit. Where they reused the same non-participation footage that was used in the 25th. If that was because Tom actually wasn't able to do it, or because he was actually in the 50th, or because thats just the funnier joke that way, I don't know. But it was a clever bit.
Really is a catch 22 sort of thing. They could have been included as extras somewhere in the special, but then whatever scene they were in would have been all about them being in it rather than the actual scene. The quick run by cameos of stock footage at the end was probably the best way to honor the actual character and actors… comboed with Tom's bit.
Dangit Eccleston, why weren't you involved in something amidst all of this? If you couldn't spend 20 minutes filming a regen scene (I'm taking into account time needed to put on a costume, and multiple takes where he'd only need to smile and say a single line) on SOME set or another, you couldn't have done a video cameo in that either? Or one of the talk shows? SOMETHING?
Oh well. He'll regret it now that every interview for the rest of his life is going to ask him that question, every single time. That was already happening, now it'll be more so.
@RobbyBevard:
Just watched the Five(ish) Doctors. Moffat was not wrong when he said it'd be awkward to have those guys in costume again at their ages. It really was. (Though I wonder how much of that tounge and cheek was in referring to the special which hadn't yet been announced when he gave that quote.) It was okay for a humorous special where that was the entire point that they looked old and silly, but it would have been downright awful to try and take it seriously. (Timecrash was okay as it was just a 4 minute for charity short)
But it was all in the spirit of fun and had enough other folks involved with the franchise history, new and old, and actual on-set counterpoints and footage, it feels like a legitimate addendum to the 50th. Biggest laugh was
! Tom Baker's bit. Where they reused the same non-participation footage that was used in the 25th. If that was because Tom actually wasn't able to do it, or because he was actually in the 50th, or because thats just the funnier joke that way, I don't know. But it was a clever bit.
Really is a catch 22 sort of thing. They could have been included as extras somewhere in the special, but then whatever scene they were in would have been all about them being in it rather than the actual scene. The quick run by cameos of stock footage at the end was probably the best way to honor the actual character and actors… comboed with Tom's bit.
Dangit Eccleston, why weren't you involved in something amidst all of this? If you couldn't spend 20 minutes filming a regen scene (I'm taking into account time needed to put on a costume, and multiple takes where he'd only need to smile and say a single line) on SOME set or another, you couldn't have done a video cameo in that either? Or one of the talk shows? SOMETHING?
Oh well. He'll regret it now that every interview for the rest of his life is going to ask him that question, every single time. That was already happening, now it'll be more so.
If the ending of that special is anything to base facts on, they might have been under those cloths in the basement of the museum. It may have just been a joke though, but it's certainly possible.
If the ending of that special is anything to base facts on, they might have been under those cloths in the basement of the museum. It may have just been a joke though, but it's certainly possible.
I like to imagine they actually were, whatever the truth. It's such a silly little triviality but also really sweet in its own way.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@RobbyBevard:
Dangit Eccleston, why weren't you involved in something amidst all of this? If you couldn't spend 20 minutes filming a regen scene (I'm taking into account time needed to put on a costume, and multiple takes where he'd only need to smile and say a single line) on SOME set or another, you couldn't have done a video cameo in that either? Or one of the talk shows? SOMETHING?
Oh well. He'll regret it now that every interview for the rest of his life is going to ask him that question, every single time. That was already happening, now it'll be more so.
Yeah. Sad but true. Especially given we'd all have been happy with just a shot of his face after Hurt did the armglow thing, and him saying 'fantastic' before the memories faded. That would have been perfect.
! I mean, heck, we were all more than happy with Capaldi's eyes
If the ending of that special is anything to base facts on, they might have been under those cloths in the basement of the museum. It may have just been a joke though, but it's certainly possible.
I think that's going to be pretty much everyone's head-cannon now. The actors were there, in costume! But not intruding on the scene.
@Print:
Yeah. Sad but true. Especially given we'd all have been happy with just a shot of his face after Hurt did the armglow thing, and him saying 'fantastic' before the memories faded. That would have been perfect.
Exactly!
That moment started, and that's what we ALL expected right then and there, all that was needed. "Oh, they kept his cameo under wraps! It's only 5 seconds, no wonder it was easy to do!" And it would have felt organic and fine and not like he was written out at all because he didn't want to participate.
! They could have even done it the same way they got Hurt in as young doctor. Don't have to quite show the seamless closeup, just show the energy then cut to stock footage that's obscured somehow. Back of the head shot with a "Fantastic". Something! Plus you have a lightshow, and… oh well.
! Actually, given how that Regen shot was going... I wonder if they actually CGed a scene doing exactly that with repurposed footage, and then decided it looked awful and then cut it mostly?
!
So that's gonna be the big glaring blemish on it forever pretty much.
Also Night of the Doctor is pretty much default the opening 7 minutes of the thing.
@RobbyBevard:
I think that's going to be pretty much everyone's head-cannon now. The actors were there, in costume! But not intruding on the scene.
I just thought of this.
! If this is actually true, all living Doctors actually was in the episode (I count Night of the Doctor as part of the episode)… besides Eccleston. So yeah, I agree with everything you had to say about him, even though I find Nine to be fantastic.
@RobbyBevard:
Final battle. All forces were drawn together for one last showdown. When the enemy has gathered all its forces to attack your home base, you gather together all your forces to try and stop them.
Where apparently the Daleks were totally on the verge of winning.
I presume all those forbidden things and temporal weapons destroyed everything else, and survivors had to use sticks and stones. Still kind of local for universal war, but whatever goes.
…
Eccleston is too big of an actor now, to return in children show. Even on the anniversary. He had to be in Thor 2 (which is 52 years old, so more important).
Only amateurs, like John Hurt, can waste their time and career on TV.
Ww, Just look at the creditspage for the Five(ish) doctors. I got a lot of the cameos and jokes, but wow. It was pretty crazy past crew filled thing. Including David Troughton and Sean Pertwee!
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Five(ish)_Doctors_Reboot
Really is the best of both worlds. One special to be coherant and move the series forward while celebrating its past, another special to give McGann another outing finally and his departure proper, and a third special to be the nonsense silly fluff shout out gathering of old participants.
@RobbyBevard:
Ww, Just look at the creditspage for the Five(ish) doctors. I got a lot of the cameos and jokes, but wow. It was pretty crazy past crew filled thing. Including David Troughton and Sean Pertwee!
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Five(ish)_Doctors_Reboot
Really is the best of both worlds. One special to be coherant and move the series forward while celebrating its past, another special to give McGann another outing finally and his departure proper, and a third special to be the nonsense silly fluff shout out gathering of old participants.
Don't forget 'An Adventure in Space & Time' as well, which fulfils yet another role. It's kind of a multi-Doctor special of Doctor Who specials.
Super spoilers
! Well that was freaking awesome! And now Gallifrey is back and he's going to go looking for it? Ooooooooh, that gives me such a wicked idea.
! >! The Doctor, in his Tardis, lands on Gallifrey, having just defeated the Silence (Daleks, Angels, whatever) once and for all and returns at last to his homeworld. As he steps out, he's met by an honor guard.
! Guard: Well, you've saved us all yet again Doctor.
! Doctor: Course I did, I'm bloody brilliant.
! Guard: We are forever in your debt. Come with us, the president wishes to speak with you.
! Doctor: Oh no, Rassilon? Great, guess I better deal with him first.
! Guard: No sir, there is a new president. He deposed Rassilon and has led our people into a new golden age. He's wants to meet you in person and offer you Gallifrey's highest honors.
! Doctor: … Well we better go and see him then, yeah?
! As the Doctor and his entourage enters the presidential meeting hall, there sits a man. A stranger in face, yet to the Doctor there is something eerily familiar about the way he looks back at him.
! President: Welcome Doctor. Allow me to thank you on behalf of all the men, women and children of Gallifrey. Please come forward so that I may greet you, man to man.
! As they shake hands, the president leans close so that only the Doctor can hear.
! President: I'd also like to thank you for what you did for me personally.
! Doctor: Oh yeah, what's that exactly?
! President: Thank you Doctor.... thank you... for stopping the drums.
! Doctor: No... no, that's impossible.
! President: Oh but it is Doctor, all thanks to you. Now-
! The president electrocutes the Doctor with his gauntlet, bringing him to his knees.
! President: - Kneel before your lord and Master.
Great episode, thought they would use the Tennant and rose in that other dimension but whatever.
I presume all those forbidden things and temporal weapons destroyed everything else, and survivors had to use sticks and stones. Still kind of local for universal war, but whatever goes.
…
Eccleston is too big of an actor now, to return in children show. Even on the anniversary. He had to be in Thor 2 (which is 52 years old, so more important).
Only amateurs, like John Hurt, can waste their time and career on TV.
Didn't he have a bad falling out with the show hence the short term as the doctor?
Didn't he have a bad falling out with the show hence the short term as the doctor?
He was kind of a name even when took the job, and says the intent was always to do a one season stint, and he was just there to give it some legitimacy, largely as a favor. Heck, given that the casting of new doctors is done waaay in advance, they had to have been looking for Tennant pretty early on.
He's been kind of an arse about responding to questions about it since then though. And now he'd going to get them for the next 25 years. Though maybe it won't be as bad for him as it was for Baker, since Baker was pretty heavily identified with the show while I'd say Tennant became better known than Eccleston as the doctor almost immediately.
Even if he did have a bad round with the old staff, its an entirely different team, and no one was asking him to come film for 2 months to do the full special, or even a full day or two like McGann did.. A cameo that would have taken only minutes to film was all that was needed the way the script was done.
@RobbyBevard:
He was kind of a name even when took the job, and says the intent was always to do a one season stint.
Even if he did have a bad round with the old staff, its an entirely different team, and no one was asking him to come film for 2 months to do the full special, or even a full day or two like McGann did.. A cameo that would have taken only minutes to film was all that was needed the way the script was done.
I think he mentioned in an interview that the only reason he took the job was that Russell T. Davies was helming it, they had apparently worked together before. Chris himself never watched Who as a kid, and always thought it was silly schlock. Then he had a statement that once you've done something you should turn your back against it and never look back, and his general snooty atmosphere, and you kinda understand why he didn't come back.
Quite a fun romp, which is what Doctor Who should be. It wasn't as fantastic as I thought it was going to be, but chalk it up to over-hyping. I still loved it to bits.
! Moffat pretty much kept the after effects of the Time War intact, while actually changing what happened, which… is pretty clever.
! The post-war stress that the post-Hurt doctors feel is still real since they believe they destroyed Gallifrey (except Smith now knows that it probably isn't gone).
! The Zygon storyline was pretty good, and it weaved into the War storyline pretty well, and didn't take up as much time as I was starting to fear it would.
Also, Moffat's the luckiest showrunner in the history of Who:
! adding a new incarnation, making Eigth's audio adventures canon, and showing us 3 regenerations all in one year.
! And for a lightning strike of an episode, he was able to fit in a cameo from a future Doctor, and bring back THE Doctor of the classic era for more than just a one-liner. Don't think an opportunity as big as those will happen again, at least for a long while.
! Who knows, maybe Tennant will come back for the 100th.
Also, some of the speculation about The Curator in the end is interesting:
! Some say, going from his talk with Smith, he's a retired Doctor from the very far future who takes up the position of Curator (like 11 said he would possibly do), and hints that the Doctor can regenerate into past carnations (probably with an added "age" effect), hence his Baker look.
! I'll have to rewatch the part to see if it would really check out, but it is a nice thought.
The Zygons didn't really kill anyone. lol when it was the horse! Poor queen.
I really enjoyed the 50th, and it does let the whole show go in a new direction, but there were still a few things I was unsure of;
! For one, how did 11 and Clara get out of the timestream after The Name of The Doctor? Last thing we knew before the special, they were inside the timestream and it was collapsing in on itself and such, then…Clara's working in a school and off we go.
! Like I said, the special let's the show go in a new direction from now, with the restoration of Gallifrey...but I'm not sure how I feel about that plot point itself. The Doctor had one really dark moment that stood out in his history, scarring all his incarnations from The War Doctor onwards. One moment that really showed the Doctor's commitment to saving the universe, even at the cost of a double genocide...and now it never actually happened?
! Still I can poke holes in the logic and complain all I want....I still made a very loud nerdy noise in a packed cinema when Capaldi was shown.
I really enjoyed the 50th, and it does let the whole show go in a new direction, but there were still a few things I was unsure of;
! For one, how did 11 and Clara get out of the timestream after The Name of The Doctor? Last thing we knew before the special, they were inside the timestream and it was collapsing in on itself and such, then…Clara's working in a school and off we go.
! Like I said, the special let's the show go in a new direction from now, with the restoration of Gallifrey...but I'm not sure how I feel about that plot point itself. The Doctor had one really dark moment that stood out in his history, scarring all his incarnations from The War Doctor onwards. One moment that really showed the Doctor's commitment to saving the universe, even at the cost of a double genocide...and now it never actually happened?
! Still I can poke holes in the logic and complain all I want....I still made a very loud nerdy noise in a packed cinema when Capaldi was shown.
! I'm assuming timestream questions will be answered come Christmas. I think this whole special took place in there. After all, why would he go back to Trenzalore?
! The thing is, because of how we know Time works in the Who-verse, the Doctor never destroyed Gallifrey. But he believe that he did. And that's enough.(Though, technically he did still commit mass genocide of the Daleks, and his people probably aren't okay, being locked away and all somewhere–that has to have some consequence.)
! And besides, is it that Moment that showed his commitment to saving the Universe, or everything he did after?
I really enjoyed the 50th, and it does let the whole show go in a new direction, but there were still a few things I was unsure of;
! For one, how did 11 and Clara get out of the timestream after The Name of The Doctor? Last thing we knew before the special, they were inside the timestream and it was collapsing in on itself and such, then…Clara's working in a school and off we go.
! Like I said, the special let's the show go in a new direction from now, with the restoration of Gallifrey...but I'm not sure how I feel about that plot point itself. The Doctor had one really dark moment that stood out in his history, scarring all his incarnations from The War Doctor onwards. One moment that really showed the Doctor's commitment to saving the universe, even at the cost of a double genocide...and now it never actually happened?
! Still I can poke holes in the logic and complain all I want....I still made a very loud nerdy noise in a packed cinema when Capaldi was shown.
And that moment has defined the show for eight years now, time for a change.