The last page of the next chapter wil end with a kaboon on a cake island falowed by a anger scream: Strawhat!!
Chapter 697: "Transaction"
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You know what I find odd, Buggy and Shanks were both on gold roger and saw one piece right? It just is odd to me that shanks is trying to get back to it, I feel like he's guarding it. Buggy on the other hand, has no interest in something that should change your perspective on the entire world.
Or were they added after they found one piece?
No, they were definetely on board before that. They fought in Edd War which took place before Roger became Pirate King.
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No, they were definetely on board before that. They fought in Edd War which took place before Roger became Pirate King.
That's what I thought, so it makes me wonder why buggy is so oblivious and shanks is searching for it again, he would be one of the few people who knows where and how to get there right?
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That's what I thought, so it makes me wonder why buggy is so oblivious and shanks is searching for it again, he would be one of the few people who knows where and how to get there right?
Because Buggy doesn't give 2 shits about the history of the world. And where is it said that Shanks goal is One Piece?
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I has a problem with this argument (bolded)… just because Zoro was able to cut Daz Bones doesn't necessarily mean he was using CoA. That's like saying that Luffy hitting Enel and Crocodile was because he was using CoA. It could very plausibly be simply part of his skill set (or circumstantial) [side note. has zoro used that since?? I don't remember it being used explicitly since then…]
(Just an argument issue.. I stand neutral at the moment :ninja:)
We already know why Luffy could touch them, Crocodile was sand and Luffy used water, Enel was electricity and Luffy being rubber, so Zoro cutting Daz Bones was haki, that's what I believe.
Now that we know that it was haki all along we can assume that in order to cut diamond Zoro needs to have a different CcA, I mean we have speculated about Kings haki having different forms and the same can be said for CcA/CcO.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/4861/one-piece_ch196_by_null/12
Daz Bones said "are you gonna cut through diamond next"
that's what makes me believe that you need to have a haki level 3,4 assuming that the CcA that Rayleigh showed us is level 1, hardening being level 2 and zoro getting level 3 along the way would make him able to cut through diamond
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We already know why Luffy could touch them, Crocodile was sand and Luffy used water, Enel was electricity and Luffy being rubber, so Zoro cutting Daz Bones was haki, that's what I believe.
Now that we know that it was haki all along we can assume that in order to cut diamond Zoro needs to have a different CcA, I mean we have speculated about Kings haki having different forms and the same can be said for CcA/CcO.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/4861/one-piece_ch196_by_null/12
Daz Bones said "are you gonna cut through diamond next"
that's what makes me believe that you need to have a haki level 3,4 assuming that the CcA that Rayleigh showed us is level 1, hardening being level 2 and zoro getting level 3 along the way would make him able to cut through diamond
So why couldn't Zoro cut Enel then? And why would he need CoA to cut steel? He simply became a better swordsman.
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Because Buggy doesn't give 2 shits about the history of the world. And where is it said that Shanks goal is One Piece?
It's been stated that it's a 4 way tie to get to one piece between the yonko. Also he may not care, but I feel like him knowing it would change his perspective of the world itself.
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so is the chapter coming out tomorrow?
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We already know why Luffy could touch them, Crocodile was sand and Luffy used water, Enel was electricity and Luffy being rubber, so Zoro cutting Daz Bones was haki, that's what I believe.
Now that we know that it was haki all along we can assume that in order to cut diamond Zoro needs to have a different CcA, I mean we have speculated about Kings haki having different forms and the same can be said for CcA/CcO.
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/4861/one-piece_ch196_by_null/12
Daz Bones said "are you gonna cut through diamond next"
that's what makes me believe that you need to have a haki level 3,4 assuming that the CcA that Rayleigh showed us is level 1, hardening being level 2 and zoro getting level 3 along the way would make him able to cut through diamond
You've completely missed the point of the argument… and you've made the conclusion that Zoro used haki but you have not given a logically coherent argument to support it. My point was that Zoro's ability to cut metal (and therefore Daz Bones) is not enough to justify the claim that Zoro had haki since the end of the Alabasta Arc. (and if Zoro had already achieved haki in that arc.. why could he not use Haki to cut Enel?) I know that it was made explicitly clear why Luffy was able to hit Enel and Crocodile (I was using that to prove the above bolded statement), I was merely comparing Luffy's ability to not use haki but still defeat a DF power with Zoro's.
(also the word levels in terms of power generally receive quite negative reactions)
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I recall on Skypiea where Robin found the poneglyph and Roger had it signed saying he had brought all of them to the end of the world.
Robin then asked if Roger was capable of reading poneglyphs, whereby somebody replied that he couldn't, but he could feel the breath of the poneglyph.
Since Roger isn't a swordsman (EDIT: just before i get yelled at. okay we dont know if he was a swordsman or not, but lets just assume that he wasnt a full swordsman like Zoro or the likes….) I feel he is unlikely to have the mysterious skill Zoro used in Alabasta....Also I feel it wouldn't make much sense to have Zoro use some super uber technique which allows him to hear the breath of everything and sense whats gonna happen, only to forget about it and moving on. I always thought it was a foreshadowing to Haki...
Also sggupta, you sound rather stressed about this all.... i feel youre right in that CoO was told to be only for living things and that aint what Zoro did, then again the other guy had a point with Hodi's water drops and such. It's still different perspectives to the same subject and different opinions by us, and i would gladly discuss about them.
but the way youre talking just makes it feel like youre forcing what you feel is right upon us and saying "it's well established" while i havent been convinced fully yet.Since i dont think anything else WILL convince me of either of the 2 sides (Zoro didnt use Haki, just some super skill that was never shown later. or Zoro did use Observation and therefore he could feel the rocks and Bones' Steel), maybe its best to call our last words and then quit it. anything else about haki should go to the haki thread.
Or were they added after they found one piece?
Remember, Roger never "found" one piece, he MADE it by putting all his wealth together and stashing it on raftel.
i feel positive it was probably just a grammatical error by you rather than something you really understood wrong, but i felt like pointing it out to be "sure" -
You've completely missed the point of the argument… and you've made the conclusion that Zoro used haki but you have not given a logically coherent argument to support it. My point was that Zoro's ability to cut metal (and therefore Daz Bones) is not enough to justify the claim that Zoro had haki since the end of the Alabasta Arc. (and if Zoro had already achieved haki in that arc.. why could he not use Haki to cut Enel?) I know that it was made explicitly clear why Luffy was able to hit Enel and Crocodile (I was using that to prove the above bolded statement), I was merely comparing Luffy's ability to not use haki but still defeat a DF power with Zoro's.
(also the word levels in terms of power generally receive quite negative reactions)
If the theory holds true that Zoro in fact did use haki against Daz Bones, it is very likely that he unlocked the power the same way Luffy used CoC In Marineford or at the Kuja island, or how Corby experienced CoO during the Marineford war; by experiencing a life threatening situation that awakens an uncontroled power. Just because one unlocks the ability to use CoO or CoA doesn't mean that you are able to use it reguarly in a fight.
I agree that it is possible that Zoro simply made use of an undefined swordsman technique, but it isn't the only possible answer to what exactly happened. The thing is though that we have never seen Zoro do anything like what he did at Arabasta. You'd think if it was only a sword technique he performed, he would have reperformed it again later in the series assuming that the technique is any helpful in a fight.
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Also, if he had CoA, he'd have been able to cut Enel in Skypeia. Its not like Enel had any practice using CoA Haki defensively like Akainu presumably did.
Exactly. It's ridiculously annoying that everything leads to haki. Have you guys noticed that Zoro drank more than usual at Fishman Island, why do you thin.. HAKI!! Not everything is about haki. Zoro learned how to cut something he couldn't before. If he learned about haki so early into the series, he would have owned the pacifista or certainly done a lot more damage to it. He would have had quite a bit of time to get stronger and improve his haki to hit him since the Alabasta arc. And then there's of course the basic concept that if he had haki, he would have hit Enel.
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I found Kaido!!
Top Right corner…. Don't look if you don't want the King of Beasts to be spoiled yet.
! http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130121064124/onepiece/images/2/2e/Chapter_582.png
If that actually turned out to be him I would be like 'pffffyes.'
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Robin then asked if Roger was capable of reading poneglyphs, whereby somebody replied that he couldn't, but he could feel the breath of the poneglyph.
Also I feel it wouldn't make much sense to have Zoro use some super uber technique which allows him to hear the breath of everything and sense whats gonna happen, only to forget about it and moving on. I always thought it was a foreshadowing to Haki…
Roger didn't "feel the breath" of the poneglyph. He could "hear the voice of all things". I think these are going to be important in the future: the "breath of all things" and the "voice of all things".
I had to rewatch Zoro's fight with Mr. 1 for this. And now that I think about it, it could be some form of CoO. Zoro says he felt the presence of the rocks "as if they were living things" or something more distict, "a breath".
This would explain why he couldn't cut Enel. He used CoO, not CoA.
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Exactly. It's ridiculously annoying that everything leads to haki. Have you guys noticed that Zoro drank more than usual at Fishman Island, why do you thin.. HAKI!! Not everything is about haki. Zoro learned how to cut something he couldn't before. If he learned about haki so early into the series, he would have owned the pacifista or certainly done a lot more damage to it. He would have had quite a bit of time to get stronger and improve his haki to hit him since the Alabasta arc. And then there's of course the basic concept that if he had haki, he would have hit Enel.
Unleashing burst of haki and using haki regularly are two different things
Luffy has used CoC several times without him knowing that and i think the same happened to Zoro.
At Arabasta Zoro used CoO to evade those rocks without him knowing that it was haki, does that mean he could've used it anytime he wants? no, he just unlocked the ability for the first time
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Why does everybody say that if Zoro used Haki during alabasta he should have owned everything after that?
"hurr why couldnt he cut enel"for the seemingly obvious reason that he couldnt control his Haki, or that he couldnt use it regularly yet.
After luffy used CoC for the first time, did you see him pwn all 3 admirals with it? i think not. he first had to learn how to use it and even what it was.EDIT: mrsword beat me to it :3
Also yes i am hesitating about the Breath of all things and the Voice of all things. still seems quite similiar to me though!
I hope we'll figure out more about it later in the story….. If not ill probably keep speculating. -
Unleashing burst of haki and using haki regularly are two different things
Luffy has used CoC several times without him knowing that and i think the same happened to Zoro.
At Arabasta Zoro used CoO to evade those rocks without him knowing that it was haki, does that mean he could've used it anytime he wants? no, he just unlocked the ability for the first time
I doubt it, CoO doesn't work on non-living things.
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@Foxy:
I doubt it, CoO doesn't work on non-living things.
Read my post. Maybe it does work on them. Everything has a presence, a "breath", that can be sensed.
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Read my post. Maybe it does work on them. Everything has a presence, a "breath", that can be sensed.
Where does this come from, did Roger say it?
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@Foxy:
I doubt it, CoO doesn't work on non-living things.
Luffy used CoO to evade Hody`s bullets
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if Luffy could evade water bullets then how come Zoro can't evade the rocks?
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Luffy used CoO to evade Hody`s bullets
! http://i32.mangareader.net/one-piece/637/one-piece-2601821.jpg
Err…we can't view that in the U.S.
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@Foxy:
Where does this come from, did Roger say it?
Zoro during his fight with Mr. 1.
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Here you go
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Luffy used CoO to evade Hody`s bullets
! http://i32.mangareader.net/one-piece/637/one-piece-2601821.jpg
if Luffy could evade water bullets then how come Zoro can't evade the rocks?
Zoro at alabasta didn't have haki hell even us didn't know such thing existed back there.
I want to believe too big guy3ds code friend:0404-6254-1866new "new"3ds code friend:0791-4253-7110 (monster hunter)
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Luffy used CoO to evade Hody`s bullets
! http://i32.mangareader.net/one-piece/637/one-piece-2601821.jpg
if Luffy could evade water bullets then how come Zoro can't evade the rocks?
How can that be the same thing? He knew based on the living thing (Hody) the one who used it.
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Zoro at alabasta didn't have haki hell even us didn't know such thing existed back there.
Shanks downed Whitebeard's men on his ship and scared off a giant fish that bit off his arm in east blue, but it wasnt Haki cuz we didnt know it existed.
EDIT: to get on the topic of the chapter once more, is Vergo supposed to be stronger than Ceasar?
Cuz i really get the complaints of how overly strong Law has become for beating him in one hit (not saying i think like that, but i understand the viewpoint) but Luffy beat Ceasar in 2-3 hits as well…. so what im asking is why would it be bad that law beat vergo like that if luffy beat an even stronger guy almost the same way?im going to sleep now, will read all replies tomorrow. gnight.
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Haki this and Haki that….. this is why I like speculation and theories, especially on here ^.^ Since the New World just begun we are bound to see the possibilities of all Haki. CoO to hear the voice or detect the presence of someone or something. CoA to be able to grab matter and CoA to intimidate or pressure another beings will.
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This post is deleted!
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http://img.mangastream.to/manga/one-piece/637/Page07.png
Here you go
That had nothing to do with him sensing the water bullets. He simply knew where they would go by using CoO to watch Hody's movements.
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Zoro at alabasta didn't have haki hell even us didn't know such thing existed back there.
So? Shanks used Haki on the beast in ch. 1 and we didnt know it existed
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Shanks downed Whitebeard's men on his ship and scared off a giant fish that bit off his arm in east blue, but it wasnt Haki cuz we didnt know it existed.
LOL forgot about Shanks, but isn't what he saying is that zoro used haki during alasbasta because that is wrong.
And didn't whitebeard scene with shanks wasn't after alabasta? I want to believe too big guy3ds code friend:0404-6254-1866new "new"3ds code friend:0791-4253-7110 (monster hunter)
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So? Shanks used Haki on the beast in ch. 1 and we didnt know it existed
I remember reading it and I thought, how did the beast get psyched out like that.
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LOL forgot about Shanks, but isn't what he saying is that zoro had haki during alasbasta because that is wrong.
And didn't whitebeard scene with shanks wasn't after alabasta?no that`s not what i said, what i said is using Haki regularly and unleashing a burst of Haki are two different things, read my post again lol
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Unleashing burst of haki and using haki regularly are two different things
Luffy has used CoC several times without him knowing that and i think the same happened to Zoro.
At Arabasta Zoro used CoO to evade those rocks without him knowing that it was haki, does that mean he could've used it anytime he wants? no, he just unlocked the ability for the first time
Yes, I can see your reasoning is finding a small needle in a country filled with only haystack. Because it certainly is the same thing of Luffy using CoC haki twice and CoO against Haweyes in the same arc right before the timeskip where it's obvious that he's unlocked the ability of haki.. to Zoro unlocking it shortly after the series started and never using it again even though he fights characters much stronger than Mr.1, in several arcs to never be used again. That's a nice comparison…
Especially that makes total sense when after the Alabasta arc, Zoro is already training injured as he says he should be able to pull this power at anytime but apparently is unable to every single arc aftertwards until the timeskip. Nice to know one of the most skilled and improved characters in the whole series cannot use haki even once more for such a long time of unlocking it, while Luffy does 3 times when unlocking the skill in the same arc.
EDIT: Let me say that he may have used CoO during the fight with Mr.1, since he basically is always the most observant member in situations where it is needed. This I cannot say for certain, it could be a yes or no, as Zoro is very observant when needed to. However for him to be able to hit enemies with haki seems very implausible considering how early he could have used and never used it again for such a skilled fighter, while his observational skills have always been consistently top notch in every arc.
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Personally, I can't wait for Law to randomly discover that Luffy's already at war with Big Mom.
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@Foxy:
That had nothing to do with him sensing the water bullets. He simply knew where they would go by using CoO to watch Hody's movements.
uh, right that`s not an evidance, but still we dont have proof that Haki cannot work on non living things,
in fact Zoro said in the same chapter that he could sense the trees/land "Breath"
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just read the chapter.
this Arc is just getting better and better.
cant wait to see what Doflamingos decision is.. either way.. i think Kaidou will still be mad lol -
@Foxy:
That had nothing to do with him sensing the water bullets. He simply knew where they would go by using CoO to watch Hody's movements.
Would absolutely love to know how you know this with enough certainty to state it as a fact.
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when is the next chapter out?
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Zoro having Haki back then when he was just a weak green haired dude.Lol.
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Would absolutely love to know how you know this with enough certainty to state it as a fact.
I'm using evidence from the manga, so it is a fact. There is no proof that CoO works on non-living things.
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So coa ist 3x times more important than coc?
Whats the freaky use of coc it wont work on strong guys… I mean even caribou and some newbie fishmen survived coc..
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@Foxy:
I'm using evidence from the manga, so it is a fact. There is no proof that CoO works on non-living things.
wait, what evidance? and there is no proof the CoO DOESNT work on non-living things.
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wait, what evidance? and there is no proof the CoO DOESNT work on non-living things.
Enel's Mantra was foiled by Luffy's Baka-luffy technique. It shows that the target needs to be thinking about his/her actions for the Haki to have any effect. While certainly appropriate, I don't think Luffy is actually dumber than rocks.
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**Kaidou is the best Yonko; da best pirate. You cant beat em'!
Sabo part o' hez crew.
The double "D" afraid o' he.
He beat da crap out o' da moast annoy character in series, Gecko "Fat Ass" Moriah.
He a dwarf, minkman, mythical zoan, logia userz, who wear tech steampunk suit.Man… Wat not 2 luv?**
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also luffy used deflection to bypass enel's haki. luffy didnt know / cant control his deflection attack and so enel couldnt sense it. i guess it is pretty safe, for now, to say that CoO users need to read the attacker's mind. they can still sense non living things as long as that thing is controlled by another human. hody used the water bullet as his form of attack so luffy read his mind and be able to dodge it. i dont know what would happen if there's a random bunch of knives falling from the sky. would CoO users sense it or are they just gonna use thier basic reflex?
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@Foxy:
That had nothing to do with him sensing the water bullets. He simply knew where they would go by using CoO to watch Hody's movements.
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That's like saying if I catapulted 50 water balloons at you in one go/shot, you'd be able to dodge them all because you saw me catapult them? I don't think so (well maybe you could :ninja:)
But. Just cuz Luffy saw him hurl the water at him doesn't mean Luffy knew where they were going to go, if he did he would have moved away not just dodge/evade them. It's like the chaos theory. But then again, I could be wrong. But my bet was it was CoO and Zoro awakened the latent ability to hear/feel the breath/voice of all thingsAlso. For those complaining about CoC… It will be important in the New World. Why would Oda only fully introduce and (roughly) explain it before the Time-Skip? Why not way way before? CoC will be very relevant, mark my words
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Yes, I can see your reasoning is finding a small needle in a country filled with only haystack. Because it certainly is the same thing of Luffy using CoC haki twice and CoO against Haweyes in the same arc right before the timeskip where it's obvious that he's unlocked the ability of haki.. to Zoro unlocking it shortly after the series started and never using it again even though he fights characters much stronger than Mr.1, in several arcs to never be used again. That's a nice comparison…
Especially that makes total sense when after the Alabasta arc, Zoro is already training injured as he says he should be able to pull this power at anytime but apparently is unable to every single arc aftertwards until the timeskip. Nice to know one of the most skilled and improved characters in the whole series cannot use haki even once more for such a long time of unlocking it, while Luffy does 3 times when unlocking the skill in the same arc.
EDIT: Let me say that he may have used CoO during the fight with Mr.1, since he basically is always the most observant member in situations where it is needed. This I cannot say for certain, it could be a yes or no, as Zoro is very observant when needed to. However for him to be able to hit enemies with haki seems very implausible considering how early he could have used and never used it again for such a skilled fighter, while his observational skills have always been consistently top notch in every arc.
You do have to try and remember that the StrawHats journey before the Time-Skip was barely a long time, a few months at most. To us its ages (YEARS) because of how it's released.
And it is stated in the manga that it usually takes years to master Haki. Plus, awakening it doesn't mean he'll know how to use it whenever or just be able to use it/call upon it at all. -
Enel's Mantra was foiled by Luffy's Baka-luffy technique. It shows that the target needs to be thinking about his/her actions for the Haki to have any effect. While certainly appropriate, I don't think Luffy is actually dumber than rocks.
Gotta agree here. Enel was/is built up as the most proficient CoO user to date, given that it was only strengthened by his DF. To suddenly make CoO apply to non-sentient things would be a major retcon and a slap in the face to Enel. Although it would be nice if we were given a scene to confirm that once and for all… like Luffy effortlessly navigating that island of constant lightning strikes without being hit.
