"we already know what happens" is such a goddamn asinine reason to say a prequel/historical movie is bad
It's about the journey, people
"we already know what happens" is such a goddamn asinine reason to say a prequel/historical movie is bad
It's about the journey, people
I think the prequels problem was only a couple things.
1. jar jar binks was annoying as heck
He was the least of the problems. That he gets pinned for story structure issues is silly. He's barely even in the first movie, and not in the other two at all. Watch the red lettr media reviews. Like 4 hours of script, story and acting problems, and I think he mentions Jar Jar only once in an offhand "bunny thing" way.
2. lucas is the worst love story writter ever created
Tommy Wiseau says "hi doggie!"
3. we already knew how the story ended
Bull. Stupidest thing ever. Everyone knows how Romeo and Juliet ends, doesn't matter. Citizen Kane, everyone knows what Rosebud is. (and no, its not a sled.) The most famous lines of Casablanca and Gone with the Wind, including the last lines of those movies! are quoted all the time. Anyone who has seen ANY movie or read a book or listened to an album once knows how it ends… doesn't stop from watching it a second or third or 20th time. The journey, not the outcome is important.
And... As much as Obiwan lied to Luke, it would have been EASY for there to have been a couple massive plot twists along the way that no one saw coming.
That Lucas took the completely straightforward approach isn't the fault of it being a prequel. (and hamfisted in the robots, Chewie, Yoda, etc. as much as possible didn't help. Giving Luke to his ACTUAL blood relatives was pretty stupid too.)
Imagine if say, he hadn't been sooo blatant about Anakin turning slowly and obviously evil. What if instead, he seemed fine most of the second movie... and then in the third it started to seem like Oba-wan was the one turning dark? then the epic final showdown takes place and we discover all along that the one that was corrupted and became Vader was original Obi-wan, and that Anakin took up his name? Woah, whole new spin on the Obiwan/Vader/Anakin guilt dynamic! Or what if it had been revealed that R2 was a secret agent for the resistance all along and 3PO was just his front man? What if Yoda had been a nasty cuss and it was his bad instruction that led Obiwan down one way which in turn corrupted Vader? What if Darth Maul had been in all three films? ?
Just because the movies TOOK the most direct obvious direction possible (and often stupidest, ala Boba Fett being a clone) to fill in the gaps doesn't mean they HAD to.
On a lesser talked about side of the prequel movies, if you only use information provided by the original films, the prequels get a lot worse in their decisions for me based on how to portray the past and the universe at large
Want to know my biggest fucking issue with the prequels is?
You're going to laugh.
It's that they stupidly retconned it so that all jedis wore those ratty hermit robes, despite the fact that Obi Wan Kenobi was only ever dressing that way because that's how people in the Tatooine desert dressed. And it got turned into the official Jedi uniform because uhhhh…? "Look guys, it's a recognizable thing! This is how Obi Wan dressed! Uh well it's a JEDI thing and uh stuff!"
The idea of how weird and pointless it was (it seems to exist purely as a throwback, regardless of it being incredibly illogical and inane) is right up there as why a lot of the dumb decisions in the prequel movie happened.
And wasn't Anakin a spice trader according to the original films? What ever happened to that? There's a whole universe of professions in the Star Wars realm and hamfistedly making everything important revolve around a society of space samurai was just silly. Anakin could've been a trader who bloomed late or something and that would've been just fine and significantly better because it would've diversified his character and given him some actual flavor.
I admit, I do like how they actually tried being subtle about Palpatine in the prequels.
@The:
On a lesser talked about side of the prequel movies, if you only use information provided by the original films, the prequels get a lot worse in their decisions for me based on how to portray the past and the universe at large
Want to know my biggest fucking issue with the prequels is?
You're going to laugh.
It's that they stupidly retconned it so that all jedis wore those ratty hermit robes, despite the fact that Obi Wan Kenobi was only ever dressing that way because that's how people in the Tatooine desert dressed. And it got turned into the official Jedi uniform because uhhhh…? "Look guys, it's a recognizable thing! This is how Obi Wan dressed! Uh well it's a JEDI thing and uh stuff!"
I don't know, the idea of how weird and pointless it was (it seems to exist purely as a throwback, regardless of it being incredibly illogical and inane) is right up there as why a lot of the dumb decisions in the prequel movie happened.
Yoda had similar clothes. I don't see the problem?
@The:
And wasn't Anakin a spice trader? What ever happened to that? There's a whole universe of professions in the Star Wars realm and hamfistedly making everything important revolve around a society of space samurai was just silly. Anakin could've been a trader who bloomed late or something and that would've been just fine.
What? You mean Owen's lie to Luke? It was him being a navigator on a space freighter..
Navigator, there we go.
But yeah I always thought the lie thing was kind of unnecessary.
@RobbyBevard:
Imagine if say, he hadn't been sooo blatant about Anakin turning slowly and obviously evil. What if instead, he seemed fine most of the second movie… and then in the third it started to seem like Oba-wan was the one turning dark? then the epic final showdown takes place and we discover all along that the one that was corrupted and became Vader was original Obi-wan, and that Anakin took up his name? Woah, whole new spin on the Obiwan/Vader/Anakin guilt dynamic!
I get the point you're trying to make, but…this sounds dumb to me. Mostly because Darth Vader acknowledged that his original name was Anakin Skywalker.
@Cyan:
I admit, I do like how they actually tried being subtle about Palpatine in the prequels.
I didn't even get that Palpatine was the Emperor the first few times I watched Phantom Menace. And even then I remained skeptical until it was confirmed. Heck, I remember hearing one fan theory many a year ago where Palpatine was actually a clone of Darth Sidious.
And then of course Palpatine turned blatantly evil in Episode III (as in, before he admitted it)
@Cyan:
I admit, I do like how they actually tried being subtle about Palpatine in the prequels.
Out of everything that happened in the prequel, Palpatine was the only worthwhile character. I don't know how he turned out decently in spite of the terribleness of everything else.
You're right about the first two, but I don't really think us knowing what happens in the future is really a problem. Otherwise I'd never enjoy adaptions. Some people have said that The Hobbit will suffer from the same problem, but I don't think it will.
This has been said over and over, but Lucas at that point had too big of a head to take any feedback to heart and nobody could tell him no. Rather than taking control of every aspect, he should have chosen some great people to work with and trust their judgement, which is what he was forced to do in the original movies. But it's already apparent that Disney is doing just that so I'm optimistic.
I'm not saying number 3 is a sure given thing that makes a prequal bad, I'm saying its a hurdle that needs to be overcome.
Star Wars did not jump that hurdle, they failed in that regard. There are plenty of prequals that i enjoy and book adaptations as well. But they all have to jump the hurdle of people knowing how the movie goes. They have to still make the movie enjoyable and interesting regardless of knowing the ending. Star Wars failed in that.
@RobbyBevard:
Imagine if say, he hadn't been sooo blatant about Anakin turning slowly and obviously evil. What if instead, he seemed fine most of the second movie… and then in the third it started to seem like Oba-wan was the one turning dark? then the epic final showdown takes place and we discover all along that the one that was corrupted and became Vader was original Obi-wan, and that Anakin took up his name? Woah, whole new spin on the Obiwan/Vader/Anakin guilt dynamic! Or what if it had been revealed that R2 was a secret agent for the resistance all along and 3PO was just his front man? What if Yoda had been a nasty cuss and it was his bad instruction that led Obiwan down one way which in turn corrupted Vader? What if Darth Maul had been in all three films? ?
I would not watch this …
I get the point you're trying to make, but…this sounds dumb to me. Mostly because Darth Vader acknowledged that his original name was Anakin Skywalker.
Eh. The point is the "big" thing we know the end result of "that makes the whole thing harder to watch" could have been twisted in SOME way to surprise audiences.
If I felt like sitting down and making up a real theory I'd post this instead.
[hide]A New Sith, or Revenge of the Hope
Reconsidering Star Wars IV in the light of I-III
If we accept all the Star Wars films as the same canon, then a lot that happens in the original films has to be reinterpreted in the light of the prequels. As we now know, the rebel Alliance was founded by Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Bail Organa. What can readily be deduced is that their first recruit, who soon became their top field agent, was R2-D2.
Consider: at the end of RotS, Bail Organan orders 3PO's memory wiped but not R2's. He wouldn't make the distinction casually. Both droids know that Yoda and Obi-Wan are alive and are plotting sedition with the Senator from Alderaan. They know that Amidala survived long enough to have twins and could easily deduce where they went. However, R2 must make an impassioned speech to the effect that he is far more use to them with his mind intact: he has observed Palpatine and Anakin at close quarters for many years, knows much that is useful and is one of the galaxy's top experts at hacking into other people's systems. Also he can lie through his teeth with a straight face. Organa, in immediate need of espionage resources, agrees.
For the next 20 years, as far as 3PO knows, he is the property of Captain Antilles, doing protocol duties on a diplomatic transport. He is vaguely aware of the existence of the princess but doesn't know much about her. Wherever 3PO goes, being as loud and obvious as he always is, his unobtrusive little counterpart goes with him. 3PO is R2's front man. Wherever they land, R2 is passing messages between rebel sympathisers and sizing up governments as potential rebel recruits - both by personal contact and by hacking into their networks. He passes his recommendations on to Organa.
Yoda is out of the picture by this stage, using the Force-infused swamps of Dagobah to hide himself from Vader and the Emperor. Or something. He is meditating on the future and keeping in touch with Obi-Wan via the ghost of Qui-Gon Jin, which as comm systems go has the virtue of being untappable. Obi-Wan, on Tattoine, keeps in touch with Bail Organa and the other Rebel leaders by courier, of which more later.
As Star Wars opens, R2 is rushing the Death Star plans to the Rebellion. R2, not Leia. The plans are always in R2. What Leia puts into him in the early scene is only her own holographic message to Kenobi. Leia's own mission, as she says in the holographic message, is to pick up Obi-Wan and take him to Alderaan - or so she thinks. Actually, her father just wants her to meet Kenobi, which up to this point she never has. There's a reason for that.
Obi-Wan has spent the last 20 years in the Tattoine desert, keeping watch over Luke Skywalker and trying to decide on one of the three available options:
A) If Luke shows no significant access to the Force, then leave him alone in obscurity
B) If Luke shows real Force ability, then consider recruiting him as a Jedi. The rebellion needs Jedi. Now.
But, if Luke shows any signs of turning out like his father, then C) sneak into his house one fine night and chop his head off. With great regret but it'll save a lot of trouble later on.
Knowing this to be the case, Bail Organa (perhaps at the insistence of his wife) has found excuses not to send Leia to Ben for assessment of Jedi potential, largely for fear of option C.
To be fair to all concerned, Leia has shown no overt signs of a link to the Force. Luke on the other hand has. In his home-built hotrod aircraft, with no formal fighter pilot training and no decent instrumentation, Luke can regularly score centre-hits on 2-metre targets in complicated zero-altitude maneouvres. Until he attends the briefing on Yavin, Luke has no way of knowing that hardened combat pilots would consider that nearly impossible. To him it's easy. Obi-Wan, who saw Anakin's performance in the Pod Race, is nervous.
Much of Obi-Wan's behaviour in this film, and Yoda's in the next, can best be understood if they are frankly scared to death of what Luke might become. (Ben is also scared that he himself will make all the same mistakes he made with Anakin.)
Now, with the existence of the rebellion at stake, Bail Organa has finally told Leia to go see Obi-Wan and has sent her along with R2. The original plan would then be for Obi-Wan (with optional Luke and/or Leia in tow) to leave his exile and take the Death Star plans to Yavin, where they can be put to use. R2 (with Leia if Ben doesn't want to take her) would then carry on to Alderaan to maintain the cover story. The original plan does not survive contact with a large Imperial Star Destroyer.
R2 and 3PO bail out in an escape pod, landing in vaguely the right area of Tattoine, where R2's first priority is transport. He arranges to be captured by a group of Jawas and, once on board their transport, he makes a deal with them (possibly using emergency funds stored about his person) to take him where he wants to go. The Jawas refuse to go directly to Kenobi for fear of marauding Sandpeople but they agree to R2's second request : transport to the Skywalker farm. They even get to keep the purchase price if they can sell R2 and 3PO there. The Jawas shake on it and go through with the plan.
Seeing 3PO fail to recognise the farm where he worked for 10 years gives r2 a moment's amusement but, as soon as possible, he gets away and heads for Kenobi. Luke and 3PO follow, which may or may not have been part of the plan.
On first seeing R2, Obi-Wan has a twinkle in his eye and calls him "my little friend". Well, he is. However, when Luke wakes up and says that R2 claimed to be owned by an Obi-Wan Kenobi, he blandly says "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid." Ben has in fact owned several but the remark is aimed at R2 and translates as "You keep quiet. I'm not about to tell him everything just yet." Obi-Wan thinks fast and tells Luke a version of his past that does not involve a father who became a dark lord of the Sith. He wants to examine Luke a lot more closely before he risks telling him the real truth.
Although the Death Star plans need to get to Yavin as soon as possible, Obi-Wan needs to make one more diversion first. If the Empire knows that Leia is a Rebel leader, then they also know about her father and the whole Organa family may need immediate evacuation. Fortunately, before coming to Tattoine, R2 had already arranged transport, which is waiting at Mos Eisley, under the command of the Rebellion's other chief field agent and espionage asset. Chewbacca.
20 years earlier, Chewbacca was second in command of the defence of his planet. He's there in the tactical conferences and there on the front lines and is a personal friend of Yoda's. When he needed reliable people to join the embryonic Alliance, who else would Yoda turn to but his old friend from Kashykk? Given his background, there is no way that Chewie would spend the crucial years of the rebellion as the second-in-command to (sorry Han) a low-level smuggler. Unless it's his cover. In fact, Chewie is a top-line spy and flies what is in many ways the Rebellion's best ship.
The Millenium Falcon may look like a beat-up old freighter but it can outrun any Imperial ship in normal space or hyperspace, hang in a firefight with a Star Destroyer or outmaneouvre a dozen top-of-the-line TIE fighters. It's a remarkable feat of engineering and must have cost a colossal fortune to build. How does Han come to own a ship like that? He only thinks he does, actually it's Chewie's. Half-way through RotS, we see the Falcon landing at the Senate building on Coruscant. If it's the same ship (which of course it is) then it was the personal transport of one of the senatorial delegations - a much more likely source to commission its design. That delegatino must have later joined the Rebellion and given it the use of the Falcon. In fact, if the delegation is the one from Kashykk, then the ship may have belonged to Chewbacca as early as RotS.
Han is Chewie's front man. It's much better, and safer for him, if he doesn't know what's really going on. Chewie used to work with Lando Calrissian in a similar way but Lando wanted to settle down, so Chewie arranged for him to lose the Falcon in a card game to Han Solo, an even better choice as partner. Han and Chewie's working method is pretty much what we see in the cantina scene: Chewie make the contacts and sets up the deals, then turns them over to Han who haggles over the price and gives the final yea or nay. This lets Chewie wander the seamy underside of the galaxy pretty much at will, making contacts, gathering and passing information with no-one was the wiser, especially not Han.
Chewie persuaded Han to do business with Jabba the Hutt so he could make regular runs to Tattoine, where Chewie could pass messages between Kenobi and Organa. When R2's urgent message came through only days before, the only way for Chewie to get back to Tattoine in time was to make the "mistake" that forced Han to dump his cargo to avoid capture. As a down side, this led to Solo's getting a death mark out on him from Jabba the Hutt. Chewie was a bit upset about the need for that but figured they weren't going to be dealing with Tattoine for much longer.
En route to Alderaan, R2 and Chewie play stop-motion chess. This is the latest in a series of games they've played over the year in the back rooms of space stations and cantinas across the galaxy, but this is the first time they've done it in front of their respective straight men, so they put on a big show.
Then it all goes wrong again. Alderaan is gone and the Falcon is caught and brought aboard the Death Star. Only Han, Luke and 3PO don't know just how much trouble they're in but Obi-Wan has a plan and seems confident (but Jedi always do). Soon afterwards, R2 finds Leia in the detention cells and shouts that they have to rescue her, to which Chewie can only agree. If Vader learns he has a daughter, then they're all in deep trouble, so Chewie does his bit to persuade Han to go along with Luke's plan.
Then, on the verge of escape, Vader himself turns up only yards from both of his children, one of whom is leaking Force all over the place. Obi-Wan stages a distraction by letting himself die and go into the Force while the others escape. At this point, Chewie suddenly realises that he's been left in charge, not only of the Death Star Plans and the survival of the Rebellion but of the secret son and daughter of Darth Vader. With the Organas and Kenobi all dead, only Chewie, R2 and Yoda know who Luke and Leia are. And only Ob-Wan knew where Yoda has been hiding. Chewie is stressed out by the responsibility and R2 (who keeps making crude jokes about the whole affair) is being no help at all.
Chewie's first problem is what is happening between Luke and Leia. With a psychic link they can feel but don't understand, thrown together in a life-or-death escape, they are looking at each other with a sparky intensity that Chewie gradually recognises as Romantic Tension. He's no expert on human relationships but Chewie is fairly sure that that's Wrong, so he does the only thing he can under the circumstances - he throws Han at her. Han is at first not interested but after a while starts to warm to the idea with an intensity that gives Chewie new worries.
When they reach Yavin, Han decides to take the money and run and Chewie decides to go with him. Looked at in cold light, it's for the good of the Rebellion. Even if Yavin is destroyed, there'll be one agent who knows what's going on who can try and put something back together, but he doesn't feel good about it. When Han decides to turn around and join the attack, Chewie is all for it.
Han and Luke get medals but Chewie doesn't. Actually, Leia offers him one but Chewie turns it down. He got one of those things from Yoda about 20 years ago, but there's no way he can tell her that.
As the film ends, the three founders of the Rebellion are all gone. Bail Organa is dead, Yoda is out of contact and Obi-Wan's ghost can only talk to other Jedi. (So that would be Yoda then.) Thus, the field leadership of the rebellion has just been turned over to the daughter of Darth Vader. Chewie is really hoping that someone with an official rank greater than hers will get here real soon before he has to think really seriously about option C.
Keith Martin 2005[/hide]
I would not watch this …
Which THIS would you not watch? That was about seven different random ideas, all in a single sentence without any development or fleshing out.
Much like the script to episode 1! ba-dush
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/12/08/indiana-jones-lucasfilm-sued-over-crystal-skull
Lol the lawsuits people make up for money.
OMG…that rock in 25:16 in Indiana Jones looks remarkably like the rock in my rock collection. STOP…I have a potential lawsuit here for millions of dollars. Where did this "doctor" get her degree from? University of Phoenix?
Matt Damon would never get involved in something like this. I do commend her (grapefruit). She took lawsuit allegations to a brand new level!!!
Heres a new article….it felt obvious he'll turn it down since he is filming for 2 movies for next year.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/12/j-j-abrams-turns-down-star-wars-episode-vii/
LOL!!
Star Wars gets a show on ABC. As one should expect with Disney in charge
This live action series in the works for years, it's been talked about for years, with all the scripts having been written, long before Disney bought LA. However nobody in Disney, LA, or ABC has mentioned anything about it any time recently, this is just some news circles digging around in the past and finding something to talk about.
Yeah, this isn't something Disney decided on or made. George Lucas has been interested in a live action TV series for years. The working title was supposed to be "Star Wars: Underworld," set primarily in the corrupt underworld of Corruscant between Episodes III and IV. Ian McDiarmid even expressed interest in playing Palpatine (to what extent he didn't say) if the series ever got going.
As said, they haven't made any progress recently. I think Rick McCallum was talking about it this year and basically said what was holding up the show were the special effects. They were looking for live action Star Wars movie level special effects on a TV budget and the tech from ILM was a few years away. He seemed pretty confident the show would eventually be made when the tech caught up to a point George was comfortable with. I forget if it was George or Rick, but one of them mentioned 50 hours of scripts being already complete and waiting for a series to begin.
I wasn't even alive when the original trilogy was released but I will always find it better than the shit Lucas allows today.
I too love the OT more than anything else in the Star Wars universe.
I will say Clone Wars is just plain awesome and very worthy of the name Star Wars.
Honestly, I still enjoy the prequels, flawed as they are. Hayden Christensen's horrible acting is the hardest thing for me to get past. The terrible love scenes / dialogue between Anakin and Padme are also no good.
The other issues I have with the prequel era such as lack of development for the other Jedi, some missing story details etc. are still there but largely addressed by the Clone Wars. I feel like if it weren't for Clone Wars, the prequel era wouldn't be as interesting, but I think that series has been amazing.
I have similar hopes for the live action series and sequel trilogy. Many series have a weak point. For Star Wars Episode II (in my opinion) is the low point. I like to believe it's going to continue going up from this point forward after watching the Clone Wars for the past 5 years.
@Vongola_Boss_XI:
I too love the OT more than anything else in the Star Wars universe.
I will say Clone Wars is just plain awesome and very worthy of the name Star Wars.
Honestly, I still enjoy the prequels, flawed as they are. Hayden Christensen's horrible acting is the hardest thing for me to get past. The terrible love scenes / dialogue between Anakin and Padme are also no good.
The other issues I have with the prequel era such as lack of development for the other Jedi, some missing story details etc. are still there but largely addressed by the Clone Wars. I feel like if it weren't for Clone Wars, the prequel era wouldn't be as interesting, but I think that series has been amazing.
I have similar hopes for the live action series and sequel trilogy. Many series have a weak point. For Star Wars Episode II (in my opinion) is the low point. I like to believe it's going to continue going up from this point forward after watching the Clone Wars for the past 5 years.
The problem that I have with the PT is that it lacks the magic of the OT. The actors were very bland (Hayden Christensen can't act for shit and Natalie Portman has no acting skills compared to Carrie Fisher back in the day) and there were way too much special effects, nobody could improvise because everything was digital, whereas in the OT there were always so many things occurring in the background because the actors and puppets were in a real environment. That and George Lucas shouldn't direct a movie.
While acting was part of the problem, I lay more blame on badly directed, badly written dialogue. Honestly, a lot of the dialogue in the OT was pretty bad too, but it came off with the right amount of charm. Everything felt so forced in the prequels.
@Foxy:
Natalie Portman has no acting skills compared to Carrie Fisher back in the day
Yes…Portman is a far less proficient actor than Fisher. I'm sure this golden statue means very little within the acting community:
!
while Fisher has gone on to do great things with her immense talent:
!
Other than that, yes Hayden is a dullfest and Lucas should NOT direct movies whatsoever (or heck, write anything ever).
Overall, it was the writing and direction (Lucas) that fucked up some of the actor's performance imo (and the immense amount of freedom Lucas had in writing/directing the prequels verses the original trilogy which had him slightly more constrained).
lol @ Natalie Portman comment
I don't know about you but I can't stand Natalie Portman. She always plays the same monotone, uninteresting characters, she has no real acting range or talent. People keep telling me not to judge her by her performance in the Star Wars prequels yet I have yet to see a film she's in where I didn't hate her performance. She single-handedly made Black Swan one of the worst movie experiences I ever had.
Though she still surpasses the fat, drunk, and disgusting drug addict that is Carrie Fisher any day.
I bet Carrie F. couldn't even stay sober long enough to make an appearance in Episode VII+.
^Not to mention some class and sophistication that Fisher (as well as most celebrities) lack. Making out with Lucas as a couple in Hook as a cameo? Talk about…plain weird.
In spite of the star wars prequel trilogy being a terrible demonstration of her performance, it was a good decision in terms of boosting her career (and procuring a fat paycheck).
Yes…Portman is a far less proficient actor than Fisher. I'm sure this golden statue means very little within the acting community:
! [qimg]http://cdn2.mademan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/natalie-portman-oscar-acceptance.jpg[/qimg]
while Fisher has gone on to do great things with her immense talent:
! [qimg]http://img1.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/x3/x19617.jpg[/qimg]
Other than that, yes Hayden is a dullfest and Lucas should NOT direct movies whatsoever (or heck, write anything ever).
Overall, it was the writing and direction (Lucas) that fucked up some of the actor's performance imo (and the immense amount of freedom Lucas had in writing/directing the prequels verses the original trilogy which had him slightly more constrained).
Did you even read what you quoted?
I said "back in the day". That implies Carrie had more talent but didn't use it. Carrie Fisher used to be very attractive but then became a fat drunken idiot.
And you honesty can't compare Natalie Portman in the PT to Carrie Fisher in the OT.
@Foxy:
Did you even read what you quoted?
I said "back in the day". That implies Carrie had more talent but didn't use it.
And you honesty can't compare Natalie Portman in the PT to Carrie Fisher in the OT.
Carrie Fisher never had talent back then and STILL doesn't have talent to this very day. And yes, I can compare Portman with Fisher's performances in both trilogies.
Fisher performed decently due to the writers (including Lucas) actually putting effort in developing chemistry between characters. She played "okay" with Hamil in the first movie, but her interaction with Ford was remarkably noteworthy (also recognize how this happened in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi where there was actually another writer on the helm?) She provided decent lines (mostly with exchanges with Ford) and proved to be a fairly strong female character with a backbone. However, this all manifests from GOOD writing and directing (as well as a decent actor that can follow ques, but that does not mean she's a remarkably talented actor).
On the other hand, we have Lucas fully in control of the prequels (writing and directing). With the lines and ques given to Portman, how can she actually pull it off seriously and effectively? Go read the script in both movies that Portman/Christenson and Fisher/Ford. There is a significant difference in quality and sophistication that is clearly missing in the prequel. How can you fault the actor and attribute her as "talentless" when the script and direction is a complete mess?
Honestly, I want to know how anyone else could do the whole "Anakin, you're breaking my heart" scene and be taken seriously. By simply reading that line, you know you cannot pull off a good scene whatsoever. I'm pretty sure Portman was aware of that too since most of her performance in the trilogy was half-assed. With a script so ridiculous, I'm sure she was just doing this for the paycheck. This does not automatically make her a "less talented" actor compared to Fisher back in the original trilogy. Fisher at least had the benefit of decent writing and direction in the 2nd and 3rd movie. Portman was stuck with Lucas putting her in goofy outfits and reciting idiotic lines for all three movies.
In terms of Fisher's talent in her "hay-day", there is very little that demonstrates her capacity as an actor. Before Star Wars, she was in one movie that barely anyone knows about. After that, she was mostly in tv movies and performed several cameos. How can you say she has talent when she never demonstrated it? (Heck, you even acknowledged that she never even utilized this "supposed" talent back in the day). Also has Fisher ever been recognized in the acting community as someone with talent?
Regardless of what people say about Portman's performance, she actually DOES have several awards that at least implies that some people out there believe she has acting talent. While Fisher has literally nothing under her name except some Star Wars films and being a dreadful wreck of a human being. Suggesting that Portman has LESS talent (in the star wars trilogy) than Fisher in her hay-days (which happened to be strictly 2 movies) is downright silly.
Honestly, do you think a hypothetical young Fisher would ACTUALLY do better than Portman in the prequel trilogy? I cannot fathom any actress pulling off her role seriously whatsoever. It is a nearly impossible task.
Valiantt is right. Like I said, It's the script, it's the directing that is MOSTLY at fault. Even Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor for all their talent couldn't pull much out of that mess. (but Hayden Christensen….blah)
Which is why I have higher hopes for the new trilogy - I'm pretty sure they won't make that same mistake without George being 100% in control. He may be a brilliant guy but absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I think you guys are being unnecessarily harsh on Carrie Fisher though. She human and has had a lot of issues.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/Wolvie09/news/?a=72668
Huh? Does slow mo action fit in the Star Wars galaxy?
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/Wolvie09/news/?a=72668
Huh? Does slow mo action fit in the Star Wars galaxy?
I am at a loss here. o.O
damn they need to slow down on the star wars movies we need to get through episodes 7,8,9 first
Man, Snyder!
Cool your jets, you've already got Superman!!
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/Wolvie09/news/?a=72668
Huh? Does slow mo action fit in the Star Wars galaxy?
Naah, Spin-off movie would be interesting, but that rumor is bullshit http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-01-14/300-synder-denies-working-on-seven-samurai-based-star-wars-plans
Funny that Vulture.com is insisting that their report is factual lol
Watch it Robby! JJ is untouchable
So now J.J. is doing Star Trek AND Star Wars?
Gotta admit, he's living every nerd's fantasy.
Watch it Robby! JJ is untouchable
New Star Trek sucked.
Pretty much everything else he's associated with that you might like (LOST, Alias, Fringe, Super 8, Cloverfield, etc) is as producer (he gets the funding, nothing creative involved) or creator (he only worked on the pilot but still gets credit for the whole series) or where he was only the writer for one or two episodes, NOT as Director. They're very different jobs.
@RobbyBevard:
I'll' say, nothing against Abrams as I generally like him as a filmmaker but his Star Trek was abysmal( this coming from a guy who doesn't even care about for Trek in general). However it is fitting, seeing as his Trek was him doing essentially his own Star Wars film and he has publicly admitted to preferring Star Wars over Trek so its ultimately not a surprise he would ditch Star Trek. He's such a predicable choice though. Granted, at least it will ensure this new film whenever it comes out will be better than prequels(that ain't saying much since you can't do worse than Lucas did)
Is this actually true or another rumor like the Snyder one? I can't shake the feeling off that this is just a speculative piece.
@RobbyBevard:
Pretty much everything else he's associated with that you might like (LOST, Alias, Fringe, Super 8, Cloverfield, etc) is as producer.
Actually, he did direct Super 8.
And I liked Star Trek.
And I liked Star Trek.
I only saw it the once so I can't get into any debates about it. I just remember utterly hating it.
@RobbyBevard:
I only saw it the once so I can't get into any debates about it. I just remember utterly hating it.
Same here. And I saw it before I had seen the entire original series.
So yeah, not really up for a debate either, just stating my opinion.
J.J. and STAR WARS, eh? I can picture the lens flares coming off the lightsabers now.