strike lock out, whatever its the same end result. The referees are not going to work
Same end result, but not the same thing. A lot of your argument is based on refs just saying they refuse to work, when that is not how a lockout works.
NFL Season 2012
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A strike means that it was the referees' decision. A lockout means that it was the NFL owners' decision (they told them they couldn't come back unless they agreed to a bunch of new changes, basically). If you're going to assess blame, then the owners need to bear the brunt of it.
I don't care who's at fault or what the issues behind it are in the slightest. I just want it to get resolved.
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I don't care who's at fault or what the issues behind it are in the slightest. I just want it to get resolved.
Yes, this.
And what are the proposed changes? I haven't really heard about those.
In fantasy news, Forte and Spiller are out and two of my receivers have a bye. I'm going to have to dig deep this week.
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A strike means that it was the referees' decision. A lockout means that it was the NFL owners' decision (they told them they couldn't come back unless they agreed to a bunch of new changes, basically). If you're going to assess blame, then the owners need to bear the brunt of it.
I don't care who's at fault or what the issues behind it are in the slightest. I just want it to get resolved.
The contract was up and the owners offered the referees like a 10% raise.
The referee's where not satisfied with this and thus have been in contract wars since and why the need for replacement referees.
Whether you think the raise was good enough or not is up to you. But the referee's could easily accept the proposed contract and get back to their part time job.
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Whether you think the raise was good enough or not is up to you. But the referee's could easily accept the proposed contract and get back to their part time job.
That's true. Or, the NFL could have negotiated further with the refs and not needed to resort to Lingerie/beer league refs to blow a pretty easy call twice in a row, which they knew they would have to and didn't have the foresight to be concerned about possible crap like this.
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@Raging:
And what are the proposed changes? I haven't really heard about those.
Annual salary of course, but one of the major hangups is a pension plan vs a 401(k). They've always had a pension plan, but the NFL wants to move away from that. Their stance is that full time NFL employees don't get pension plans, so they don't feel it's right to give part time employees such a benefit. Honestly if they'd just bite the bullet on that (comes out to a couple hundred thousand dollars for all of them) it probably could have gotten done months ago.
Other than those things, the other major issues are things like the league wanting to expand the number of officials (partially to bring in young blood) and they want to implement a review system to punish bad officiating. They also want to have a few primary officials that switch to full time employees. Physical conditioning stuff, blah blah blah. I don't know all the details, but from what I can remember that's the gist of it.
Whether you think the raise was good enough or not is up to you. But the referee's could easily accept the proposed contract and get back to their part time job.
The NFL was the side making the demands here, and the raise wasn't even really much of an issue to begin with. You apparently don't understand labor disputes at all.
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Other than those things, the other major issues are things like the league wanting to expand the number of officials (partially to bring in young blood) and they want to implement a review system to punish bad officiating. They also want to have a few primary officials that switch to full time employees. Physical conditioning stuff, blah blah blah. I don't know all the details, but from what I can remember that's the gist of it.
Ah I see. Thanks for the info. I had heard most of the money stuff, but not really about the more refs and what not.
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Annual salary of course, but one of the major hangups is a pension plan vs a 401(k). They've always had a pension plan, but the NFL wants to move away from that. Their stance is that full time NFL employees don't get pension plans, so they don't feel it's right to give part time employees such a benefit. Honestly if they'd just bite the bullet on that (comes out to a couple hundred thousand dollars for all of them) it probably could have gotten done months ago.
Other than those things, the other major issues are things like the league wanting to expand the number of officials (partially to bring in young blood) and they want to implement a review system to punish bad officiating. They also want to have a few primary officials that switch to full time employees. Physical conditioning stuff, blah blah blah. I don't know all the details, but from what I can remember that's the gist of it.
The NFL was the side making the demands here, and the raise wasn't even really much of an issue to begin with. You apparently don't understand labor disputes at all.
Yes I know what is all up on the table.
It all essentially comes down to the referees wanting more money.
The NFL wants more referee's so that each referee isn't forced to do as many games and thus can rest and be less stressed out and prepare more thus resulting in fewer errors made in the game. They want to bring on a few full time referees and they want to make the referees take more safety classes in order to bring the players more safety.
But the referee's know that this will mean less games they will get to do and thus get paid less money. They also do not want to go to a 401k like every other american in the world not in some government job.
To me it sounds like everything the NFL wants to get done will only improve the referee system.
So what is there that is to complain about for the referee's? MONEY. Plain and simple. They don't want these changes cause it will mean they ref less and get less money. They want to keep their pension plan. Its all about money in their eyes. Thus why I feel no sympathy for them. Hell look at the ref's, there are a few of them that own their own business. Some are cops, ect. This is a part time job, regardless of how much time it takes. If it takes up too much of their time, they can quit this job or quit their other job. This job is paying like $150,000 a year. If this job is too taxing and they need to quit it, then they obviously must make more money on their other job and thus they are making at least 300k+ a year.
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This job is paying like $150,000 a year. If this job is too taxing and they need to quit it, then they obviously must make more money on their other job and thus they are making at least 300k+ a year.
Not even close, the average is more along the lines of $48 to $64K a year since referees usually make something along the order of $3K to $4K per game. When the amount of referees along with the length of the proposed contract is worked out, the amount of increased pay is something along the order of an additional $500 per referee per game. Now, the pension dispute is because the NFL wants to shift over to the referees over to a 401(k) plan from a pension. The referees don't want to do this, but that's because they are sane. The primary reason corporations love the 401(k) so much is two-fold; they don't have to contribute as much (if at all) and can actually make money off of it (not just through the investments themselves, but in the form of hidden administrative costs). Generally speaking, companies usually control the investments made by their employee's 401(k) plans, but are relatively insulated from the risks of those investment.
Even then, the total amount of money being disputed by the NFL is something along the order of 0.0003% of their yearly profit.
Complicating things since 2009.
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Not even close, the average is more along the lines of $48 to $64K a year since referees usually make something along the order of $3K to $4K per game. When the amount of referees along with the length of the proposed contract is worked out, the amount of increased pay is something along the order of an additional $500 per referee per game. Now, the pension dispute is because the NFL wants to shift over to the referees over to a 401(k) plan from a pension. The referees don't want to do this, but that's because they are sane. The primary reason corporations love the 401(k) so much is two-fold; they don't have to contribute as much (if at all) and can actually make money off of it (not just through the investments themselves, but in the form of hidden administrative costs). Generally speaking, companies usually control the investments made by their employee's 401(k) plans, but are relatively insulated from the risks of those investment.
Even then, the total amount of money being disputed by the NFL is something along the order of 0.0003% of their yearly profit.
The starting salary for an NFL referee is like 80k.
The average verteran referee makes about 150k, which is half what NBA and MLB referee's and umpires make which is around 300k.
Considering NBA referees have like 100 games and MLB have like 180 games (counting playoffs) I woudl say NFL referee's have it much easier
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This is a labor dispute. The NFLRA doesn't want to lose their pension plan, and why would they? Who cares how much their salary is? It's not as if the NFL can't afford it easily. The NFL owners are the ones who are trying to strongarm the officials into taking a retirement plan paycut here. Quit acting like there's a good guy and a bad guy in this.
Your argument that the officials should just accept the offer and get back to football is just silly. Why can't the NFL just let them keep their measly retirement plan and let them come back? It's the same idea. The owners gambled here that officiating can be done by anyone, and they're losing mightily. Expecting the NFLRA to cave when all of the leverage shifted their way this weekend is nothing short of asinine. Labor disputes don't work that way, especially when the union workers can afford the lockout.
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One Green Bay TV Station mocks the game's outcome with "replacement weather guy"
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Just read that a deal is getting close.
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I just saw that a few minutes ago on ESPN about the deal is almost done. We might have the real refs back by Sunday.
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The Packers sacrifice has not been in vain!
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It's great news to hear. This whole debacle might coming to an end.
I have a newfound appreciation for the regular refs.
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I really hope the regular refs are back by Sunday. The sooner this whole thing is in the past, the better.
In other news, Bill Belichick got his fine for touching the official during last Sunday's game. $50k.
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The NFL has stated that they're not even going to review comments made by Green Bay players over the past two days. So no fines will be handed down as a result of them. Dunno how much of it is a PR move and how much of it is guilt, but I'm guessing there's a little of both.
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"Previously, where owners were looking for all officials to go to a 401(k), the NFLRA offered to have all new officials on a 401(k) and existing NFLRA members grandfathered in under the old pension.
The NFLRA on Tuesday offered a shorter-term grandfathering, but the owners declined, according to an NFLRA source.
The owners are dug in, reluctant to make any further compromise, according to a league source.
In exchange for the shorter-term grandfathering, the officials also sought a "ratification bonus" to make up for the money lost this season and to ensure the owners wouldn't profit from the lockout."At least this is a step in the right direction, I think.
I hope. :/
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BREAKING NEWS: an agreement has been reached between the NFL and NFLRA.
The nightmare is over.
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Thank God. Now there will be no more of this:
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Aleast now, the replacement refs are done now.
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7 and 9 this week (should have been even worse). D:
25 and 23 overall. Ouch.Cleveland at Baltimore
Carolina at Atlanta
New England at Buffalo
Minnesota at Detroit
San Diego at Kansas City
Seattle at St Louis
San Francisco at New York Jets
Tennessee at Houston
Oakland at Denver
Miami at Arizona
Cincinnati at Jacksonville
New Orleans at Green Bay
Washington at Tampa Bay
New York Giants at Philadelphia
Chicago at Dallas
Edit: According to John Clayton of ESPN -
The negative backlash from the Green Bay Packers' loss to the Seattle Seahawks on "Monday Night Football" pressured the NFL into getting this deal done. With President Obama expressing his disappointment with the replacement officiating and poor officiating being the lead story of network news coverage, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell had to act – and he did. The league made a major concession to keep funding a pension plan for the next five years before transitioning that benefit to become a 401K plan. There is even a slight increase in the pension benefits plan from 2012-16. The NFL backed down on a plan to have three additional crews of seven officials hired and paid out of the total compensation package. The new hires are paid out of the NFL coffers and not out of the current officials' take. As for the compensation package, officials will average $149,000 a year in 2012, $173,000 in 2013 and $205,000 in 2019.I'm glad that something good came from that travesty.
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And the men in the black and white are victorious!
Unfortunately, the Packers had to take the hit. It all works out for the greater good. -
Phew, just in time for Browns/Ravens.
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Finally .
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And the men in the black and white are victorious!
Unfortunately, the Packers had to take the hit. It all works out for the greater good.If there is such thing as karma, the Packers and Seahawks would meet in a wild card game and Green Bay drops ten touchdowns on them…..in the first quarter.
That or the Seahawks just bomb tremendously going on.
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9-7 last week, 27-21 overall
Cleveland @ Baltimore
Carolina @ Atlanta
New England @ Buffalo
Minnesota @ Detroit
San Diego @ Kansas City
Seattle @ St. Louis
San Francisco @ New York Jets
Tennessee @ Houston
Cincinnati @ Jacksonville
Miami @ Arizona
Oakland @ Denver
New Orleans @ Green Bay
Washington @ Tampa Bay
New York Giants @ Philadelphia
Chicago @ Dallas -
I almost forgot picks!!!
Here's tonight, record and rest of predictions later.
Cleveland @ Baltimore
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A shockingly bad 4-12 last week for a 20-28 season total.
Cleveland @ Baltimore
Carolina @ Atlanta
New England @ Buffalo
Minnesota @ Detroit
San Diego @ Kansas City
Seattle @ St. Louis
San Francisco @ New York Jets
Tennessee @ Houston
Cincinnati @ Jacksonville
Miami @ Arizona
Oakland @ Denver
New Orleans @ Green Bay
Washington @ Tampa Bay
New York Giants @ Philadelphia
Chicago @ Dallas -
Good lord, Cribbs got destroyed on that play. His head bounced off the ground too.
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Ah man. I was really cheering for the upset there at the end. I was impressed with the Browns being able to hang in there. That pick 6 was too much for them to overcome, though.
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So 7-9 last week, 25-23 overall.
@Wooden_Giraffe:Cleveland @ Baltimore
Carolina @ Atlanta
New England @ Buffalo
Minnesota @ Detroit
San Diego @ Kansas City
Seattle @ St. Louis
San Francisco @ New York Jets
Tennessee @ Houston
Cincinnati @ Jacksonville
Miami @ Arizona
Oakland @ Denver
New Orleans @ Green Bay
Washington @ Tampa Bay
New York Giants @ Philadelphia
Chicago @ Dallas -
That was awesome fake field goal by the Rams! xD
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LOL @ the Seahawks trying to do an onside kick and failed.
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Holy shit, talk about domination. We destroyed the Titans! hahahahaha
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You want domination you should have watched Pats/Bills. Pats outscored Bills 45-14 in the 2nd half. Welker, Gronk, Ridley and Bolden all had over 100 yds.
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Nice bounce back win for Niners. 34-0 over the Jets :)
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How do you fumble on the 2 yard line, green bay? LOL
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By having Rodgers get poked in the eye so that Harrell has to come in for one play which he could screw up (despite it being a handoff). I don't want to get on him too much, since he got stepped on and tripped, but he just doesn't have the practice with those guys.
Doesn't matter, they still won. The last catch by Jones was ridiculous. The Saints played a lot better than I thought they would, though. It's really a shame that they're 0-4.
Lots of missed opportunities today. Carolina has to be sick that they let that game get away.
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The Rams defense was great against the Seahawks. Everytime to make importment play on defense today, the Rams did it. It should be interesting Thursday night against Arizona.
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Lets go Eagles!!
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I am honestly surprised that the eagles won with their terrible defensive performance this game. But I'm still glad none the less
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The Eagles are now the team that are 3-1 and really shouldn't be with how they've been playing.
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Bears-Cowboys in a nutshell:
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Impressive showing by the Bears tonight, or a pathetic one by the Cowboys depending on your point of view. Cutler and Romo were a complete role reversal of what I was expecting to happen. The Dallas media should be fun this week.
Gruden's comments about Cowboy stadium were absolutely hilarious to me. To paraphrase "this stadium amps up the opposing team more than any other stadium in the league." I bet Dallas (and Jerry) loves hearing that one, lol.
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12 and 3 last week! Now 37 and 26 for the season.
Arizona at St Louis
Miami at Cincinnati
Green Bay at Indianapolis
Baltimore at Kansas City
Cleveland at New York Giants
Philadelphia at Pittsburgh
Atlanta at Washington
Seattle at Carolina
Chicago at Jacksonville
Tennessee at Minnesota
Denver at New England
Buffalo at San Francisco
San Diego at New Orleans
Houston at New York Jets -
Arizona at St Louis
Miami at Cincinnati
Green Bay at Indianapolis
Baltimore at Kansas City
Cleveland at New York Giants
Philadelphia at Pittsburgh
Atlanta at Washington
Seattle at Carolina
Chicago at Jacksonville
Tennessee at Minnesota
Denver at New England
Buffalo at San Francisco
San Diego at New Orleans
Houston at New York JetsI haven't been keeping track
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Couldn't get here before the Cards-Rams game was over. I picked the Cards to win.
Anyway, 11-4 last week, 38-25 overall
Miami at Cincinnati
Green Bay at Indianapolis
Baltimore at Kansas City
Cleveland at New York Giants Philadelphia at Pittsburgh
Atlanta at Washington
Seattle at Carolina
Chicago at Jacksonville
Tennessee at Minnesota Denver at New England Buffalo at San Francisco San Diego at New Orleans
Houston at New York Jets -
The Rams defense looked pretty damn great against Arizona. It nice to see defense winning the games.
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Went 12-4 last week for a 37-27 overall
Miami at Cincinnati
Green Bay at Indianapolis
Baltimore at Kansas City
Cleveland at New York Giants Philadelphia at Pittsburgh
Atlanta at Washington
Seattle at Carolina
Chicago at Jacksonville
Tennessee at Minnesota Denver at New EnglandBuffalo at San Francisco San Diego at New Orleans
Houston at New York Jets -
Geez why all the New Orleans love?
