I can understand the blood paramecia theory, however its hard to explain how he can cut through things so easily with just the power to control someone's blood. String is a more logical and simpler theory without it being too convoluted and unbelievable.
General Devil Fruit Discussion
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I can understand the blood paramecia theory, however its hard to explain how he can cut through things so easily with just the power to control someone's blood. String is a more logical and simpler theory without it being too convoluted and unbelievable.
Simple, it's really not that hard to explain. He forms a 'blood blade' (of sorts) and severs the leg from the inside out.
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Well that's still hard to believe. If he really used blood manipulation wouldn't it make more sense if he made blood 'burst' instead of 'cut'? Then again that'd be too gruesome for the show. Maybe: His powers are similar to Laws, where he uses 'surgical cutting and sutures'.
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Baby5 can make her body into things besides weapons
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DD has the Puppet-puppet fruit mabye?
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@Money:
DD has the Puppet-puppet fruit mabye?
And Lola is Big Mom's daughter? :ninja:
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lol @ blood theory
that will never ever happen, quote me later kkthx ^^c'mon oda set up this character to be someone who is using people just for his own purposes
and treats subordinates like they are mere puppets…how can it be blood manipulation then that theme (alone) does not fit :/
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I think Dofla having a string string fruit is a good idea but it would seem if there was a person or object in between him and who he wanted to control he'd have a harder time manipulating them. A puppet puppet fruit would make sense also but how could anyone beat a fruit that turns you into a puppet without haki, then again I still don't get how Luffy beat Blueno. Blueno opened a door at his feet and turned his face into a door, he should have just used shigan or rankakyu from there to kill Luffy.
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ventriloquist, string or puppet devils fruit would be the best possibility….im just thinking how would luffy beat it?
could it be he can control luffy but cannot severe luffy's body part since strings cant penetrate rubber?
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
@The:
Need a (would like to see):
–Disease Logia
--Sound Logia
--Time manipulation Paramecia
--Dragon Mythical Zoan
--Blood manipulation Paramecia
--Rock Logia
--Owl Zoan
--"Feeling connection" Paramecia (i.e. user can 'link' themselves with others, making someone feel pain when they do).Yup...
well i think "Doc Q" of the blackbeard pirates got the disease (paramecia) fruit and is a great match-up to chopper.
time manipulation paramecia would be badass if its given to one of the new admirals.
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could it be he can control luffy but cannot severe luffy's body part since strings cant penetrate rubber?
Sharp things can cut rubber though, and strings can be sharp too.
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@vlad:
lol @ blood theory
that will never ever happen, quote me later kkthx ^^c'mon oda set up this character to be someone who is using people just for his own purposes
and treats subordinates like they are mere puppets…how can it be blood manipulation then that theme (alone) does not fit :/
Because you can control and use people like mere puppets with blood manipulation, kkthx. ^^
He also use to be a slaver, and use to 'trade in blood' so to speak–in fact, that's another name for slavery 'blood trade'. How doesn't it fit Doflamingo, exactly?
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If DD can manipulate blood, can the victims resist with their muscles so that their blood starts ripping their muscle and splattering?
EDIT: someone who can control blood can easily kill by preventing blood from going to the brain. Too hax, so… NO.
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Sharp things can cut rubber though, and strings can be sharp too.
well you got a point on that, i just remembered piano wires, sorry.
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Part of me thinks Doflamgino is a blood bender but that would be an over kill, nah I reckon he can do puppetry like the guy fro Heroes
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Part of me thinks Doflamgino is a blood bender but that would be an over kill, nah I reckon he can do puppetry like the guy fro Heroes
This is a great comparison. I completely forgot about him.
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Part of me thinks Doflamgino is a blood bender but that would be an over kill, nah I reckon he can do puppetry like the guy fro Heroes
Yeah…
I'm sure if it was Oda's original plan, I doubt he'd do it now purely due to The Last Airbender trade-marking it. -
Why would TLA doing it stop Oda? Oda's done plenty of powers and abilities that have been explored in various media. How many fire-wielding character exist? Tons. If Oda intends for Doflamingo's abilities to be blood-based, they'll be blood-based. Truthfully, though, I think String or Puppetry Fruit are more likely.
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I've been theroizing that Donflamingo does indeed have a string fruit and that he's controlling people via acupuncture. He's using the sharp, thin strings to control peoples's muscules.
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The only thing I don't get with the String Paramecia 'theory' is why we haven't seen any strings, or anyone who is under Doflamingo's control saying they 'feel' something. It also seems sooo obvious, that, I question why Oda hasn't revealed it yet, if it is in fact a String Paramecia; another reason I think it's something…more.
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At one point I thought its a very highly advanced form of CoC. Like, he can impose his will on others.
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I doubt Doflamingo has a DF at all and if he does it's definately a wire paramecia. For him to be able to take control of Jozu to me means that it wasn't a DF, as I'm sure Jozu's CoA haki is strong enough to resist those. And when he cut off Oars Jr.'s leg instead of controlling him, to me it was a sign that his DF can't control ppl and it definately has to do wit wires. Otherwise I don't see how he could control Jozu, nor why he would chose to not control Little Oars, or at the least defeat him.
I'm still betting that Doflamingo is just using wires as his main weapon.
=D -
But CoA wouldn't prevent him from, say, wrapping parts of Jozu in String. Although, now that I think about it, it'd be really weird for Doflamingo to have a String Paramecia when Shura used String Cloud to accomplish a very similar thing during Skypeia with how he kept people from moving. Would Oda really reuse that ability with Doflamingo, given how much build up he has gotten?
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Next think we will discuss if Kidd doesn't have magnets in his sleeves. :ninja:
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@GolD.:
I doubt Doflamingo has a DF at all and if he does it's definately a wire paramecia. For him to be able to take control of Jozu to me means that it wasn't a DF, as I'm sure Jozu's CoA haki is strong enough to resist those. And when he cut off Oars Jr.'s leg instead of controlling him, to me it was a sign that his DF can't control ppl and it definately has to do wit wires. Otherwise I don't see how he could control Jozu, nor why he would chose to not control Little Oars, or at the least defeat him.
I'm still betting that Doflamingo is just using wires as his main weapon.
=DDon't underestimate Doflamingo.
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Besides, while DoFlamingo controlled other people (even 2 VAs) he just stopped Jozu. Of course you could argue that DD was not serious when he stopped Jozu but it is also possible that maybe Jozu´s Haki lvl was too high to be easily controlled.
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The thing is, Color of Armaments doesn't cancel the opponent's ability. So let's say Kid fights a cyborg, like Franky. I really doubt that even if Franky had a really strong CoA he would be able to prevent Kid from using his magnetism on him. The same way as I don't think a strong CoA user would be able to prevent Foxy's noro noro beam or Iva's hormones from working.
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The thing is, Color of Armaments doesn't cancel the opponent's ability. So let's say Kid fights a cyborg, like Franky. I really doubt that even if Franky had a really strong CoA he would be able to prevent Kid from using his magnetism on him. The same way as I don't think a strong CoA user would be able to prevent Foxy's noro noro beam or Iva's hormones from working.
If that's the case then no one can touch Magellan, Law vs Smoker took way too long for Law since he could've just taken his heart and crushed it from the start and Luffy could never beat him. There's no defense against Hancock's DF, so she can technically turn Shanks to stone easily.
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The thing is, Color of Armaments doesn't cancel the opponent's ability. So let's say Kid fights a cyborg, like Franky. I really doubt that even if Franky had a really strong CoA he would be able to prevent Kid from using his magnetism on him. The same way as I don't think a strong CoA user would be able to prevent Foxy's noro noro beam or Iva's hormones from working.
Yep that is bullshit, what stops people like Hancock, Perona or Bonney from conquering the world then?
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I'm still banking DD on having a puppeteer fruit. The finger movements when he does control people makes it seem obvious, but Oda definitely likes misleading people, so i won't say I'm 100% on it.
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Here's a good question: Would mythical zoans for Giants, Mermaids, etc. (any mythical creature that has been actually shown) be out there or owned by someone? It sounds redundant, but could it be possible?
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Here's a good question: Would mythical zoans for Giants, Mermaids, etc. (any mythical creature that has been actually shown) be out there or owned by someone? It sounds redundant, but could it be possible?
No, because giants and mermaids are considered races in the One Piece world. They may be mythical creatures in our world, but not in theirs.
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What's this talking about CoA can cancel DF power?! Robin has clearly said that that's not the case! The reason why Law couldn't just take Smoker's heart is because Smoker was actively dodged Law's aim with CoO. A surgeon can't operate a dodging patient! Law needed a distraction to disrupt Smoker's CoO reading to get his heart.
DD couldn't control Jozu because the division commander was TOO DAMN STRONG PHYSICALLY. DD using CoC to control people is also false, because if any, CoC would make someone or a creature obey, either willingly or because of fear (note: Surume's case). No one has been shown being controlled by DD willingly nor fearfully. They were all controlled against their will, which can only mean that they were controlled PHYSICALLY.
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@Sagippio: Cancelling and protecting against DF power are two different things. What Robin meant was that unlike Kairoseki Haki can not hinder the opponent to use his ability while he is in contact with an opponent who uses Haki on him but Haki can protect yourself from DF powers of others (perfectly demonstrated by the Admirals in the war against WB´s shockwave). That is why hax abilities like the ones of Perona, Hancock, Bonney etc., have a certain limit and can not be used against anyone.
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@Sagippio: Cancelling and protecting against DF power are two different things. What Robin meant was that unlike Kairoseki Haki can not hinder the opponent to use his ability while he is in contact with an opponent who uses Haki on him but Haki can protect yourself from DF powers of others (perfectly demonstrated by the Admirals in the war against WB´s shockwave). That is why hax abilities like the ones of Perona, Hancock, Bonney etc., have a certain limit and can not be used against anyone.
Then you are saying CC cannot suck oxygen from Luffy's lungs?
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CC is a special case, with his fruit you never know how he will attack and his attacks are also not visible:
Lookie here:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-40169-10/one-piece/chapter-564.html (The Admirals stop his shockwave which is physically impossible)
http://www.mangareader.net/103-49210-12/one-piece/chapter-579.html (Shanks sword normally would have to burn but the DF power can not get through because of CoA)There are other examples in the war but i think you get the gist of it
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That's the use of CoO, you don't have too see it to detect it.
Have you ever considered that CoA works like an armor? The three admirals can combine their CoA to create a massive protective haki wall to block that shockwave. Shanks can create protection coating for his sword to prevent burning. I think you get the gist of it.
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Why would Haki then prevent a sword from burning if it does not protect against DF powers? You should think ahead before you write it
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That's the use of CoO, you don't have too see it to detect it.
Have you ever considered that CoA works like an armor? The three admirals can combine their CoA to create a massive protective haki wall to block that shockwave. Shanks can create protection coating for his sword to prevent burning. I think you get the gist of it.
It's pretty obvious from what Smoker said to Tashigi about her haki not being strong enough to take on Law that CoA can limit DF effectiveness greatly. As others have said Bonney would be unbeatable, Hancock would also be the same way. There is no way somebody could dodge Bonney's age ability, she should have in theory aged Blackbeard to a child before he could grab her and stop her power or she would be able to beat Akainu if she got out of kairouseki chains. CoO is more about dodging and predicting opponents to avoid sneak attacks, assess strength, detect presences
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Why would Haki then prevent a sword from burning if it does not protect against DF powers? You should think ahead before you write it
Because it's a special physical armor?
Note: special, because it's invisible and enables touching DF users' real bodies.
! No need to heat up there.
It's pretty obvious from what Smoker said to Tashigi about her haki not being strong enough to take on Law that CoA can limit DF effectiveness greatly. As others have said Bonney would be unbeatable, Hancock would also be the same way. There is no way somebody could dodge Bonney's age ability, she should have in theory aged Blackbeard to a child before he could grab her and stop her power or she would be able to beat Akainu if she got out of kairouseki chains. CoO is more about dodging and predicting opponents to avoid sneak attacks, assess strength, detect presences
About Tashigi haki, I'd like to check to raw if you could provide me. I think Smoker just said that Tashigi hasn't mastered her haki well enough to fight Law, which means she shouldn't be able to read Law's aims.
Why did Momonga need to hurt himself if he can withstand Hancock's DF power?
The answer to how people can defeat DF users is tactics. People can attack Bonney from far way, Blackbeard can deploy his darkness even as a kid (and thus negates Bonney' DF), A kid Akainu's magma fist (still bigger than Bonney's body I think) could still hurt her badly. There are also many limitations that DF powers have.
I don't think Oda would like to have haki as a solutions for everything. It's just another tool, a very useful one, but that's just it.
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It is not a tool for everything but the only possibility to combat DF opponents (Rayleigh´s words).
It is a special physical armor without any explanation behind it, that does not help,
if it would be just that Luffy´s leg would never bounce off like it did here for example http://www.mangareader.net/103-2626-8/one-piece/chapter-519.html
, it would just hurt his leg because of his hardness. A "special physical" armor does not explain why Shanks sword did not burn because something physical would be burned from magma. -
No, because giants and mermaids are considered races in the One Piece world. They may be mythical creatures in our world, but not in theirs.
This is quite interesting. Many mythical creatures live in the One Piece universe like Yeti's for instance. For mythical zoans to actually exist they'd have to be even more fantastical than creatures that already exist.
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It is not a tool for everything but the only possibility to combat DF opponents (Rayleigh´s words).
Not the only one (albeit what he said, since DFs have weaknesses too), but could be used for fighting it. Because it enables touching DF users' real bodies, thus enables to injure them.
@MiyamotoMusashi:It is a special physical armor without any explanation behind it, that does not help,
Well, when Rayleigh was explaining CoA, there's some kind of aura coming out from and covering his hand.
@MiyamotoMusashi:if it would be just that Luffy´s leg would never bounce off like it did here for example http://www.mangareader.net/103-2626-8/one-piece/chapter-519.html
, it would just hurt his leg because of his hardness.Why ever not? Haki doesn't cancel DF power, does it? A rubber ball will bounce higher on a hard surface than on a softer one.
@MiyamotoMusashi:A "special physical" armor does not explain why Shanks sword did not burn because something physical would be burned from magma.
Why not? Not all physical things would be burned, otherwise there would be no blast furnaces. And why would the sword be burned if it was protected by a layer of protection. We don't really know if the haki layer Shanks used was burned or not, even if it was, he wouldn't feel any pain, and he can fix the layer anyway.
It's physical as in physical protection, not from DF power if it's not physical. It's like a protection field.
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You still do not give any explanation why this special armor should enable to touch the DF´s real body.
Besides, Luffy punched hard walls etc., which he could not penetrate, a lot of times but it never bounced back. It would be rather convenient that it only happened in the fight against Marigold. -
You still do not give any explanation why this special armor should enable to touch the DF´s real body
I'm not Oda to give you the exact answer why, but if it'll satisfy you, it's because Rayleigh said so.
But hey, I didn't ask you to answer my questions…
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You do not have to be Oda in order to see the obvious
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Besides, Luffy punched hard walls etc., which he could not penetrate, a lot of times but it never bounced back. It would be rather convenient that it only happened in the fight against Marigold.
Well, if the energy that the rubber has is enough to break the hard object, it'll break it. If not, it'll bounce. Luffy did hurt the Boa sisters afterward with Gear 2nd, which adds more strength to his punches. If he punches hard walls knowing that it's hard, he could adjust it so it will not bounce. He didn't know that the Boa sisters were hard. Beside, it can always be the sisters' technique to bounce attacks.
Indeed, it's obvious.
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Just continue to put everything to your own convenience, it is really fruitful for a forum discussion
Let us just assume that CoA is really just a physical armor which enhances your phsical abilities both in defense and offense.
Following that logic it would mean that
1.) You do not need CoA in the NW as long as you can achieve a certain standard in your physical abilities and in your physical hardness.
2.) Jozu did not use CoA to hit Crocodile and Aokiji since you just need a certain physical standard which his diamong DF should enable him to have (doubt that your CoA physical armor is harder than the hardest material in the world).
3.) Luffy should have died in the fight against Moria since Moria´s punches and kicks, which could split an entire island, should qualify to be equal to the armor provided by CoA. -
Just continue to put everything to your own convenience, it is really fruitful for a forum discussion
I beg your pardon?
@MiyamotoMusashi:Let us just assume that CoA is really just a physical armor which enhances your phsical abilities both in defense and offense.
Following that logic it would mean that
1.) You do not need CoA in the NW as long as you can achieve a certain standard in your physical abilities and in your physical hardness.
2.) Jozu did not use CoA to hit Crocodile and Aokiji since you just need a certain physical standard which his diamong DF should enable him to have (doubt that your CoA physical armor is harder than the hardest material in the world).
3.) Luffy should have died in the fight against Moria since Moria´s punches and kicks, which could split an entire island, should qualify to be equal to the armor provided by CoA.1. Having physical hardness is different with having an a hard armor. Armors prevent direct contact with the body, thus, provides more protection from heat, fire, cold, etc. That said, tekkai is still useful even in the NW.
2. When did I say that? I'm pretty sure I have said that CoA enables the user to touch (or should I say, "to catch") a DF user's body (which is most beneficial against logia users), thus much better potential to injure it.
3. Well, if we're gonna talk logically, rubber or no rubber, Luffy should have died when he was smashed in that shadow box. But then again, this is not the real world. In this manga, one can survive from a bomb that can destroy a whole city. Luffy didn't die because he's rubber (manga logic) and Moriah didn't use anything that can hurt Luffy's rubber body (like CoA).Look, I have a theory about how CoA can touch a DF user's real body in the theory thread if you want to look for it, but it's just a theory until it's proven.
For now, let's take a look at BB's DF which can clearly nullify DF power by touching the user. It still didn't prevent Ace's fire from burning him. So it's clear, it doesn't cancel the product of the power, it just nullifies the power from the user (as if the user is not a DF user) by touching. The sea and the seastones drain the strength of DF users, physically and DF power, but doesn't cancel the DF power from the user, so that the user can't use the DF power but can still gain benefit from the DF power (like Luffy on Arlong Park). CoA haki is only useful to catch the DF user's real body: it doesn't drain strength nor prevent the user from using the DF power, moreover, it doesn't cancel the product or the effect of the DF, but it's still useful to injure the DF users.
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1.) No matter whether it is a armor or your body, if the hardness of your body surpasses the protection of Haki then you do not need it, at least following your logic. Besides, a physical armor like you said does not really provide protection from heat, fire, cold, at least not in the level we are talking about (Aokiji´s DF, Akainu´s magma)
2.) You say that CoA is a physical armor that somehow enables you to touch the real body of DF users without giving a proper explanation to why a solely physical armor should be able to do that. The only possible solution for that would be that CoA provides you with an armor so hard and superior that you somehow hit the real body (again, under your assumption taht the armor is solely physical). Following that logic should make clear that Jozu would not need Haki because his fruit gives him such hardness superior to any physical armor CoA should provide (unless you think that CoA armor is harder than diamond which in turn would mean that Luffy actually punched through an armor like that)
3.) Again, under your assumption, CoA should enhance your physical abilities (both offense and defense). I am saying in return that Moria´s Shadow Asgard should be superior to such an enhancement and thus he should be able to touch Luffy´s real body which did not happen. Btw, we discuss in the logic and the world of One Piece, obviously the real world rules do not apply at all.BB´s DF does not nullify the DF power per se, as soon as BB touches his opponent it sucks in the power itself since the Yami Yami No Mi is basically gravitation (btw, my theory on how BB was able to get WB´s power). For that though BB has to 1.) touch the opponent and 2.) know when he is going to be attacked and use his "darkness" to suck the power in, meaning that any kind of long range attack or projectile has to be perceived by BB (whether it just normal senses or CoO) so that he can spread his darkness on that point. Since Ace´s attacks were to fast for the "slow" BB it is quite logical that he could not react to it.
Personally, i would not bring Kairoseki into the discussion because except a statement from Smoker we do not how it works. For example, Robin could not use her ability while having the Kairoseki chains but Luffy was still rubber unterwater. We have to wait till the Vegapunk Arc to get a full and, more important, conclusive explanation.
I also still do not agree with the last point you make. While you are right that CoA does not drain strength or prevent the opponent from using his power, it does cancel the product of the DF (best example would be this http://www.mangareader.net/103-2619-6/one-piece/chapter-512.html, Kizaru´s body is still there but he emits light in order to travel but Rayleigh uses his CoA enforced sword to prevent the light to go further. If we would follow your logic in this example then Rayleigh should have cut Kizaru´s body thus hurting Kizaru but there was no sign of it whatsoever).I think your mistake is that you put the DFs into two different categories, those fruits who change your body (Logias, Luffy) and those who give you a certain ability (Hancock for example). You forget though that both, the abilities and effects of the DF and the Logias + Luffy´s rubber body are a product of the DF itself. It would not make sense that while CoA enables you to attack Logias + Luffy´s real body and ignoring their DF body and thus the DF product, you could not use CoA to cancel the effect of DF other than those that change your body.
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well, just to participate (and correct me if im wrong) the three hakis in a nutshell from how i understood it:
haki of armament * can turn the intangible body of logia's back to its physical state *can be used as an armor and power-up (weapon) to your own physical body and weapons in your contact against physical attacks and devil fruit attacks.
haki of observation * will help you predict the enemies moves and intent * the more advanced haki (aisa, coby) will even help you detect how many people/enemies are around, would also help you detect life and death in an area.
haki of conquering king * will help impose your will/resolution to others and overwhelm all those weaker than your presence. (but those who are just around your strength level will survive)