I don't recall Lucci saying that he joined CP9 just so he could kill.
Enies Lobby - Best Arc Thusfar?
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I don't recall Lucci saying that he joined CP9 just so he could kill.
Yeah, Rob Lucchi said that all right.
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Chapter/page? I believe you, I just want to see it.
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At frist my three favorite arcs wre Arlong, Alabasta, and Skypiea. But after seeing whats happening in Enies Lobby(including Robin's flashback which I been dying to see since Iceburg kept wanting to see her at water 7) I say this arc is on top of list now.
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Yes, it's a great arc, probably the best, so many things happening, awesome characters (Iceburg, Franky, Kaku, Lucci, Aokiji), a definitive turn of events with the revelation of the dangers of the Ancien Weapons, the conflict between Strawhats crew members about Robin, Usopp and Merry…
One complain though: it's starting to be long, I hope it won't take another year to have a satisfying conclusion for that arc.
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I'd like to note that there's a distinction between "best arc" and "favourite arc". In terms of character development, variability of battles and simple dramatic value, Alabasta is superior to all other arcs, with Water 7 coming in a close second. To differentiate, my favourite arc would be Skypiea simply for it's tilt value.
Lastly, one of One Piece's finest features are the absurdly vile villans, but each of these villans are unique; putting another "Crocodile" in Enies Lobby would be a rehash of Alabasta. Instead, we've given a young, aloof but powerful upstart with a streak of impartiality and a strong bloodlust. In Skypiea, we were given a pseudo-philosophical and semi-insane false god with enormus raw power and a strong degree of apathy and selfishness. To each unique villan an appropriate arc.
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Chapter/page? I believe you, I just want to see it.
It was in the episode where Robin and CP9 attack Iceburg's home and Luffy confronts Lucchi. Once I find the chapter I'll edit my post.
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I know Im gonna be flammed,but I have to contribute to this thread.
It has the darkest elements,psychotic twists,deaths,drama,and the all encompasoing feeling of despair.THIS would be a great anime/manga series even without the rest of OP.
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Lol!! xD Enis Lobby the greatest? Enis Lobby is simply long draw out fights, with no major plot twists or omg moments/revealitizations.
My favorites by far are Arabasta and Water 7~
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with no major plot twists
Lol wut.
I might have to re-read it to decide whether or not it surpasses Arabasta (or Thriller Bark now that I think about it), but it had some great fights (all of the Rocketman fights, Franky vs. Fukurou, Chopper vs. Kumadori, the Bridge of Hesitation fighting) and some truly epic moments, but it also sort of dragged on in some parts. Kind of like the current Bleach arc on a larger scale.
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@Mr.:
Lol wut.
Franky vs. Fukurou, Chopper vs. Kumadori, the Bridge of Hesitation fighting) and some truly epic momentsI didn't mean it wasn't epic. It was epic. Just nothing "unexpected" happened. Like in Arabasta, every turn was like WHAT!? Another bomb!! What!? That royal soldier is a Baroke Works guy!? What!? Carue got shot? What!? Luffy died again!? What!? Vivi got run over!? What!? Ussop=Bon Kurry!? etc… same thing in Water 7. What!? Ussop is gonna leave!? What!? Luccie is bad!? What!? Lucci is evil!? What!? Lucci is a kitty!? What!? Lucci is the evil boss of his squad of 4!? What!? Lucci is BOSS CAT!? What!? Franky can blow fire, and beat up Luffy!? etc...
Enis Lobby was epic, just no big plot twists; lots of non reanimated flashbacks, and alot of poor animation episodes.
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Eh, maybe Lobster came into it later on…I for example was spoiled about Rob and them being CP9, and all that so it wasn't a PLOT TWIST to me.
I still have to say I find most of CP9 (mainly Fukurou, Jabura, and Kumadori) to be awesome villains and I love how everyone fights toghether against the Marines.
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There were no completely unpredictable plot twists, but the CP9 revelation and the reasoning behind Robin's betrayal were pretty unexpected.
That and all of the incredibly random fighting styles throughout. Franky, Wanze, Kaku.
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@Lobster:
I didn't mean it wasn't epic. It was epic. Just nothing "unexpected" happened. Like in Arabasta, every turn was like WHAT!? Another bomb!! What!? That royal soldier is a Baroke Works guy!? What!? Carue got shot? What!? Luffy died again!? What!? Vivi got run over!? What!? Ussop=Bon Kurry!? etc… same thing in Water 7. What!? Ussop is gonna leave!? What!? Luccie is bad!? What!? Lucci is evil!? What!? Lucci is a kitty!? What!? Lucci is the evil boss of his squad of 4!? What!? Lucci is BOSS CAT!? What!? Franky can blow fire, and beat up Luffy!? etc...
Enis Lobby was epic, just no big plot twists; lots of non reanimated flashbacks, and alot of poor animation episodes.
To bad this is the manga section. Random plot twists don't make arcs good, EL was great the way it was, adding unnecessary plot twists would have been stupid. Alabasta was way to damn long, I was sick of Baroque works before we even got to Alabasta, not that it was bad, just to long.
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I'm sorry but you considered Enies Lobby a different arc from Water 7? Just because they move places the Arc is still the same. IMO, Wzter7 Arc started when we met Aokiji.
I totally agree. The whole Longring Longland incident is the little event that slips over in the big Water Seven adventure. Then there's everything you want to see: A great quarrel, some major twists, loveable side characters (and some that are really to hate, like those silly Square Sisters), great villains and a perfect showdown.
I can't help but to compare Water Seven (and that means from Longring Longlang till the duel on Banaro Island, let's say chapters 304 - 441) with a Star Wars movie, most with Return of the Jedi, from the beginning adventure to the major plot. There's even a sad funeral at the end (which you could perfect cut to two minutes, and not a whole anime episode), and a foreshadowing on the things to come (Banaro Island).
I'm still sure Water Seven would make the second best movie, right after Skypia.
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I agree, I really loved it.
but i think Thriller Bark and Alabasta are better.
Thriller Bark has all the types of things I'm interested in, and great villains, designs and plot.
Alabasta was amazing, and I'm including Drum Island, Little Garden and Whiskey Peak, because they were part of the arc. This was just a masterpiece. -
I think the fact that I love it so much is good enough reason to call Water 7 the greatest arc in One Piece. I mean come on, it's me. Everyone knows that my opinions are correct.
Seriously though, when it comes to this series I'm mostly in this for the side characters. They've always been my favorite part of One Piece (Johnny/Yosaku, Mohji, Jango, Porche, Cabaji and Iceberg who I am grouping together because I love them both so much, etc. etc. etc.) I thought that Water 7 had a high amount of interesting side characters (Franky Family/Galley-La - Lulu owns your asses.). That was probably the main selling point on the entire arc for me. While other people were getting all teary eyed over
! Luffy v. Usopp I was sitting around wondering what Paulie was up to. I guess this probably makes me a crappy reader, but damn I just love the little side roles so much. I normally find them infinitely more interesting than the main characters.
And yes, I know that other arcs have had interesting side characters. W7's just really grabbed my attention the most.
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Sadly, EL is not the best. Maybe third or fourth, but Arabasta still holds the crown IMO.
The Water7 portion was magnificent, but as soon as the fights started in EL, the arc became a clusterfuck of bad writing, poor pacing, awful fights (Nami v. Kalifa) and cheap power-ups pulled from nowhere that would make Kishi blush. And the "death" of Merry was on the level of Asuma in terms of stupidity. Not to mention non-compelling villians (although the majority of the CP9 were pretty neat).
If it had maintained Water7's level of quality, it would have easily took the number one spot in my view. Oh well, the things that preceeded that arc were extremely awesome tho (Coby, Blackbeard, Garp etc).
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If it had maintained Water7's level of quality, it would have easily took the number one spot in my view. Oh well, the things that preceeded that arc were extremely awesome tho.
I agree with this, I guess. I kind of stop paying attention during big fight arcs and start paying attention again during big exposition arcs, so EL is more or less just a blur to me that I casually skimmed over every once in a while.
This is why I emphasize that I love and adore Water 7 all the time.
Why the hell am I reading shonen when I find fight scenes terribly boring? The world may never know.
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Sadly, EL is not the best. Maybe third or fourth, but Arabasta still holds the crown IMO.
The Water7 portion was magnificent, but as soon as the fights started in EL, the arc became a clusterfuck of bad writing, poor pacing, awful fights (Nami v. Kalifa) and cheap power-ups pulled from nowhere that would make Kishi blush. And the "death" of Merry was on the level of Asuma in terms of stupidity. Not to mention non-compelling villians (although the majority of the CP9 were pretty neat).
If it had maintained Water7's level of quality, it would have easily took the number one spot in my view. Oh well, the things that preceeded that arc were extremely awesome tho (Coby, Blackbeard, Garp etc).
Woah woah, now that's stretching it.
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Woah woah, now that's stretching it.
C'mon now, death of a boat (inanimate objects FTL).
Oda refused to kill Pell, Pagaya, Franky Family, and Paulie. So to compensate for his no kill rule, he kills a damn boat. That was like a slap in the face to me. I still love Oda, but that was just bad.
And not to make fun of anybody here, but when the death chapter came out, and everybody here was crying about how sad Merry's "death" was, I wanted to put a bullet in my brain from reading the responses. It's a damn boat. How can something that was never alive in the first place die?
Sorry for being so harsh guys, the end of EL just really annoyed me.
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I liked Enies Lobby Arc, but the fights after Chopper vs. Kumadori were too disappointing. Specially the Nami vs. Kalifa and Sanji vs. Jyabura ones.
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And not to make fun of anybody here, but when the death chapter came out, and everybody here was crying about how sad Merry's "death" was, I wanted to put a bullet in my brain from reading the responses. It's a damn boat. How can something that was never alive in the first place die?
Because things can die, too. I never saw the Merry as a nakama (and I'm pretty sure nobody did since Oda ordered to do so), and I never will. The Merry was a thing, but a thing I became really attached to. Hell, I loved that liveless thing.
What I'm trying to say, things die. But if the writer is really, really good, you're sad when the thing dies. Like Mufasa in The Lion King.
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Definently NOT the BEST EVER out of the whole series, but it was good.
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C'mon now, death of a boat (inanimate objects FTL).
Oda refused to kill Pell, Pagaya, Franky Family, and Paulie. So to compensate for his no kill rule, he kills a damn boat. That was like a slap in the face to me. I still love Oda, but that was just bad.
And not to make fun of anybody here, but when the death chapter came out, and everybody here was crying about how sad Merry's "death" was, I wanted to put a bullet in my brain from reading the responses. It's a damn boat. How can something that was never alive in the first place die?
Sorry for being so harsh guys, the end of EL just really annoyed me.
Eh, it just takes a stretch of the imagination to care about Merry's death, but I see where you're coming from. I didn't really get emotional when ''it'' died, but I was still satisfied by how Oda went about the matter.
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The Water7 portion was magnificent, ….. If it had maintained Water7's level of quality, it would have easily took the number one spot in my view. Oh well, the things that preceeded that arc were extremely awesome tho (Coby, Blackbeard, Garp etc).
hmm, … not really... (at least not in my reading:ninja:)
Don´t misunderstand, I enjoyed W7 for the most parts, I also enjoyed EL- though I felt the same flaws you did (plus some). With Oda even the "flawed" parts have their moments of greatness, or at least are in a mix with really awesome stuff... so over all Oda is still a winner for me.When it comes to W7 you can call it epic and talk about depth and you are sure to be right with all the drama and darkness involved, but I feel thats exactly the trap in the arcs design. Oda tried to bite more than he was able to chew... I really felt he wasn´t at his best with all this drama, the psychology behind it was pure rape (Robins treason, no her complete role through the arc!), great conflicts and build ups ended in a fluff of hot air (Ussop reunion) - all very unsatisfying. For the central story I felt that Oda wasn´t at home in this dark and deep realm of drama.
The current arc gives me very different feeling, it seems Oda was having lots of fun with the horror theme (not trying to be to deep) and I can enjoy it wholeheartedly.
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Final blow to Rob lucci got this arc better then Alabasta to me.
and soge king.
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Merry's death might have been sort of silly, but it did have quite a lot of development behind it, and was an important part of the development of the crew as a whole (especially Usopp). Plus, Merry was the Strawhat's home, and therefore an extremely important object in the eyes of a bunch of essentially homeless people.
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Enes Lobby was one of the most ambitious arcs in the series and really got you to question the loyalty of the Strawhats. Also, it was the point in which the Strawhats went from being adventuring underdogs to being near infamous rogues of the seas. Sure, it had some odd bits, but I felt it delivered. I personally feel glad that the current Thriller Bark portion is more truer to the One Piece spirit of lighthearted fun, though. I don't think the series could have maintained the level of seriousness that took up the Enies Lobby arc without losing something.
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Crocodile is still what holds Alabasta over Enies Lobby for me. I wasn't impressed with Rob Lucci, though I thought Spandam was a nice change of pace from uber-powerful leaders. The dude was in control of everything from beginning to end save the Strawhats, and he was even in control of them from time to time. And he was a villain that almost seemed impossible to defeat. After beating Luffy effortlessly the first time, I wondered how they were going to finish this guy off. Even after his Achilles Heel is found, he still whips Luffy in round two. He just seemed unstoppable. Whenever Luffy finally smashed his ass through the bedrock, and he landed spiraling downward onto his head, it was like a huge weight had finally been lifted.
And say what you will about the poor animation of One Piece (yeah it's pretty bad at times) but Gomu Gomu Storm still remains one of my favorite scenes in all anime.
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inanimate objects FTL
that inanimate object told iceberg to fix it, navigated to el to rescue the SHs and politely bade them farewell before finally sinking^^
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Face it people… the ship was possessed. o.o
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I'd certainly agree it's the best arc thus far, beating my previous favourite: Arlong Park. Well, it was the arc that brought be back to One Piece fandom after I left for a while.
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I think of Merry's life and death like this:
If you knew your chair had a nose, would you fart on it?
If you punched the wall in anger, and it started to cry, would feel guilty?
If you were jerking off to a smut mag, and it suddenly yelled "ow! my eye"…wouldn't you feel embarrassed?
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That's what I think the Merry's death was to it's crew. The merry got beaten, broken, and bashed throughout their adventures, and then suddenly it saves their lives only to require getting "put down" later. Then as it "dies" it goes on about how happy it was. Not a word about how it hurt when Luffy broke off it's mast and got whale blood all over it, not a word about that "Black cage" incident, not a word of spite. Just a few words to prove to the crew that it was alive the entire time.
That scene was kind of like Old Yeller, except replace a dog with some weird invisible friend that's been carrying you all your life, without you even knowing it. Kind of like that cliche about Jesus carrying you on the beach.
It's like I keep saying, you can't judge a manga characters actions through your own eyes, you have to try to see it through theirs. After all, that manga character isn't reading one piece, so he or she doesn't see all the seen changes. Usopp was crying a little too much though.
Plus, though I haven't done any research on it, I think ship spirits might be a part of pirate mythos.
...Oh yeah, and great arc. A little long though. Thiller Barque is probably going to surpass it.
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Holy shit OM.
I'm printing that post and hanging it on my wall. A+++.
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hihih, someone added the Going Merry to wikipedia's page about the klabautermann^^
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@Lobster:
I didn't mean it wasn't epic. It was epic. Just nothing "unexpected" happened. Like in Arabasta, every turn was like WHAT!? Another bomb!! What!? That royal soldier is a Baroke Works guy!? What!? Carue got shot? What!? Luffy died again!? What!? Vivi got run over!? What!? Ussop=Bon Kurry!? etc… same thing in Water 7. What!? Ussop is gonna leave!? What!? Luccie is bad!? What!? Lucci is evil!? What!? Lucci is a kitty!? What!? Lucci is the evil boss of his squad of 4!? What!? Lucci is BOSS CAT!? What!? Franky can blow fire, and beat up Luffy!? etc...
Enis Lobby was epic, just no big plot twists; lots of non reanimated flashbacks, and alot of poor animation episodes.
animation?
Arlong Park Forums - One Piece Fansite > One Piece > Manga > Enies Lobby - Best Arc Thusfar?
the anime is very inconsistent anyway. all animes are. always read the originals, imo.
p.s. somehow naruto made itself an exception in this. the anime rocked but the manga sucked. that was years ago anyway, the naruto now sucks in both anime and manga. ok flame me, i'm outta here.
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p.s. somehow naruto made itself an exception in this. the anime rocked but the manga sucked. that was years ago anyway, the naruto now sucks in both anime and manga. ok flame me, i'm outta here.
I'll supress my urge to flame just for once because i agree with you.
And on topic: Enies was, although too long, one of the best arcs. One of the reasons being that the Marines arent just a band of pussy guys with caps on, but have some really powerful people on their side as well. It makes the One Piece world much more threatening for the unsuspecting pirate.
And of course Franky. Everyone loves Franky. Franky is awesome. Franky.