The Writing Process: Discussion & Tips

[Kylor]

One thing that I've found that works when writing dialogue is to read it out loud to myself a few times, to figure out if what I wrote is something that character would actually say, and if the line that comes next would be a feasible reaction. I'm gonna start writing a short scene for a film class soon, and hopefully having actors read some of my writing will help me figure out where I'm at as far as emotion in my dialogue is concerned. Now for me to find something that I'm actually qualified to write seriously about without looking like a prick.

As for being able to connect with characters in stories, I've found that the actual personality or circumstances the characters have mean little in the long run. Being able to understand and relate to someone's writing is a deeply personal and emotional experience, I think, and not something that can necessarily be forced by either the artist nor the audience, nor can anyone explain it without someone else having a completely different opinion on the matter. All the artist can really do is write what he feels, and hope that his audience will experience it with an open mind. And of course, context has a lot to do with it as well. In theater appreciation class, I learned that in ancient Greece, theater was supposed to be both cathartic and educational; meant to entertain while also giving the viewer a glimpse of themselves. Often I find that all well written stories are this way, and while the standards for what makes good art may change over time, that basic concept is what good writers should try to go for.

On an unrelated note, what is the best time for you guys to write? For me, all my best work comes when I'm highly emotional about something. I've recently looked back at the things I've wrote thus far, and all the best work was made during times when I was truly upset about something, or otherwise excited or caught up in one thing or another. On the other hand, in times when I've been relatively content with myself, I could hardly find any words to put onto the page at all. So I've decided that from now on, I'll always keep myself occupied with one thing or another, so I won't get bored with myself. But what I'm afraid this has resulted in is me being really enthusiastic about creating something, but not knowing what it is that I should actually create.

Welp, I'm just repeating myself now, aren't I? Sorry about that.

[RPGJay]

@Kylor:

On an unrelated note, what is the best time for you guys to write? For me, all my best work comes when I'm highly emotional about something. I've recently looked back at the things I've wrote thus far, and all the best work was made during times when I was truly upset about something, or otherwise excited or caught up in one thing or another. On the other hand, in times when I've been relatively content with myself, I could hardly find any words to put onto the page at all. So I've decided that from now on, I'll always keep myself occupied with one thing or another, so I won't get bored with myself. But what I'm afraid this has resulted in is me being really enthusiastic about creating something, but not knowing what it is that I should actually create.

I've found that thinking of ideas/dialogue isn't too hard, it's physically writing things down that I have an issue with.

In my case I just listen to some music and force myself to have my notebook and pen in hand. Sometimes completely turning off all technology (laptop, cell phone, etc) so it doesn't distract me.

As long as I fulfill those conditions I can be in any emotional state and still be able to write. Although I do have to keep my emotions in check while writing so I don't end up writing something that will mess with the tone of whatever I'm working on (a comedy can't be too depressing, a serious drama can't be too light-hearted etc).

[Pochipochi]

all my art anything happens when i'm half drunk, or when it's 3AM

my emotional state never factors into anything and I can't do anything when I'm emotional. mood is iffy.

i usually get work down afterwards, if I'm feeling heavy.

[ChesCa]

As far as mood goes, it depends. If I'm in a really shitty or angry mood, whether or not I can draw or write depends on if I have an outlet or an idea. Otherwise, nothing happens.
The best times for me are sometime during the night where I feel especially driven. When it comes to editing I can do that at pretty much any time.

[gottalt3OP]

Hmmm, best writting times.
I think its whenever I'm reading some manga, or watching some TV Drama or movie, and some idea pops to my mind.
I totally hate writting with a pen and notebook. It just bothers me cause I write and erase to much, and without backspace I would probably spend more time erasing than writting. I also don't like to be too much isolated. I prefer to have skype turned on and all. When I'm seriously writting I don't even care if it flashes orange, but if not something might be said that catches my creative bone. (yohohoho)

About dialog. I actually think thats one of my weak points. My ideas are all about actions and scenary, and I've trouble coming out with personalities. But I believe thats something that changes through experience.
Much like Jay I believe that sometimes comming up with ideas is much easier than writting them down. However there are times when I just start writting and the ideas come to me during the process and I just write them down as I think them, its a pretty good feeling.

[ChesCa]

Between weight lifting and jogging
Okay, normally I don't ask for advice on Thread Crashers, but for those that read it, can you give me some advice on how to handle the vast amount of characters I have? I'm plugging pretty much dozens of people at a time when it's their turn to have action scenes before going back to focus on the main ensemble cast and villains. How much would you say is too much? Right now the formula is 'Main character, Side Characters, Main Characters, Side Characters, Main Characters, Side Characters.' Some of the side characters will be reduced to the background while others will be reused or placed in key points later in the story. Would this turn you off in a regular comic?

Also, I'm having a 'Golden Age' arc in the middle of the action of the first saga, and it would pretty much set up the backstory of Thread Crashers in one go, and it will happen during a rather climatic part. Would the interruption turn a lot of people off? In my defense, the rest of the story would strictly be in the present.

And since I'm asking for help already, anyone have any members from AP past they think should be in the flashback? I already have all the old mods and admins in mind, as well as everyone who appeared in National Coronation Day (fuck I hate copying stories). They can also be AP members that have just been around for a very long time.

…And any NPC members if you want to nominate them. :ninja: I need bodies a cast when TC takes place there and I only have about ten. (Note: Nobody that joined after 2010)

[gottalt3OP]

Vast ammount of characters. I actually like that. As for focus, there are many ways to handle that, but I'd say the best one is to make each part of the story interesting. People can miss the main cast but that won't be a bad thing if they are liking the current part. If well done it will only bring joy when they are finally back.
I haven't read Thread Crashers so I don't know about the specifics, but a flashback in a climatic part is good as long as it is well paced and increases the drama. Iff the flashback is too long people might forget what was going on before the flashback.
So if the flashback will be exciting and fast paced I think it would be good to have it in a really climatic part, in order to build up anticipation to the present story, without turning people off. If it will be a longer one that would take too long to reach its own climax then I think breaking it up into smaller pieces would be good. But that's just my opinion. ;)

Also I wouldn't mind being part of the flashback, but I'm as irrelevant to this forums' history as you can get.

[piratemarimo]

I need some opinions about dialogue tags you guys. Today our fiction writing teacher told us to ONLY use "said" for a dialogue tag. In other words, she's saying we shouldn't use words like he "whispered," "shouted," grumbled," "grunted," "proclaimed," "harrumphed," "declared," "giggled," "squealed," etc. She said that "asked" might be the only exception to this. I guess I just got incredibly annoyed because once I started moving beyond elementary school level, all the English teachers always told me to not just use the word "said" in writing because it gets repetitive and dull. And now suddenly I'm being told that using words besides "said" is just a crutch. She implied that a story which uses such words wouldn't be as interesting to read. It was unsettling to see people nodding as if in agreement. Hell, maybe that was just the obligatory nod people give teachers when half aren't paying attention anyway, but still. I simply cannot accept the notion that a story would lose excitement by using a variety of "said" phrases as opposed to just one (or two). Oh and she said we should practice not using adverbs either and that later on we'll try and learn ways to not use adverbs. What???

Now obviously there are ways to work around that problem, like using fewer dialogue tags, using body language and descriptive words so that you know a person is whispering without needing to say "he whispered," but it's such an incredible challenge to master that kind of subtlety (at least for me). It bothers me because I don't know how I'd approach a scene without being able to use it. How often do you guys use "said" in your stories? Is it really just a crutch? I felt as though she's saying that using those words is what an amateur does.

[Jazzy Jinx]

Well, first of all, she's full of shit.

And second of all, just don't even use any dialogue tags. You don't need to say that a person said something if it's obvious who's speaking. You only use tags when the dialogue jumps back and forth a lot or there's more than two people. Otherwise I'd recommend what you said about describing body language and being subtle overall.

[Kylor]

Dialogue tags are fine, most of the time. Adverbs, on the other hand, are terrible and should only be used sparingly, but that's an entirely different subject. I find myself using dialogue tags other than said for two different reasons: A, when a character is shouting and "said" isn't strong enough of a word to use, or B. when the tone can not be inferred from the words or context. For example, I was recently writing a scene in ADT where two characters are talking, and the words they're using are, for the most part, polite and by the book, but outwardly they're being incredibly hostile, and are basically at each others throats. I needed to show clearly that the characters weren't friendly with each other at all, and had to do it in a way other than using physicalities.

Otherwise, as Neil Gaiman once put it, "The word said is to prose what the arrow of a word balloon is to comics." I wouldn't use this as a strict rule, per se, but you should probably keep it in mind.

[Crossword]

I generally only dispense with dialogue tags completely when two or more characters are having a rapid-fire back-and-forth or someone's giving a long speech. My main challenge with tags is giving the descriptors more pizzazz, if you will. ''He said'', ''John said,'' gets repetitive and boring, but going the other way with lots of stuff like ''the chesnut-haired boy,'' or ''the willowy young lady'' etc. tends to look awkward and superfluous to me. It's really a double-edged sword.

[Kylor]

@Crossword:

I generally only dispense with dialogue tags completely when two or more characters are having a rapid-fire back-and-forth or someone's giving a long speech. My main challenge with tags is giving the descriptors more pizzazz, if you will. ''He said'', ''John said,'' gets repetitive and boring, but going the other way with lots of stuff like ''the chesnut-haired boy,'' or ''the willowy young lady'' etc. tends to look awkward and superfluous to me. It's really a double-edged sword.

Well, another problem there is that if the descriptors are too eloquent, they force too much attention on themselves. You don't want the reader to focus on the "he explicated" "she concurred vividly" and so on and so forth, the reader should be reading the words the characters are actually saying. If you need descriptors after the lines to make a conversation interesting, the dialogue itself probably isn't very exciting. In the best case scenario, the reader shouldn't even notice the saids and such.

[gottalt3OP]

I say one of the things that made me drop Harry Potter's books was the constant use of "Said". For me its highly repetitve and boring and dull and monotonous and you get the point.
I way better prefer reading that someone said and other commented and other asked and other complained and other replied than everyone just saying and asking. And I personally don't like adverbs, but I enjoy equivalent expressions. Instead of "Said mockingly" "Said, mocking the girl who was saying bad things about his granny" or something.
But I think that that teacher is not really the greatest teacher. From the momment you disagree with her, you can imagine some people would also disagree with her. And if some people disagree she shouldn't be teaching it like a universal rulle of writting. Its like a painting teacher telling you that curve strokes suck and you should only use straight ones.

I was also told when I was in like 5th grade that we should almost banish said from our dictionary. I don't agree with banishing it, but I like to avoid it when I can. You may be able to infer that a guy commented when he, you know, commented. But at least its not repetitive and, in my opinion, annoying.
But this is one of the things I find troubles to do when writting in english, I'm just not so much experienced in finding a mid-term between not-repetitive and superfulous. :/

[Kitsune Inferno]

Well, here's the thing: everyone's right AND wrong here. The thing with said is that we are so trained AGAINST using it that we naturally force ourselves to use other dialogue tags so much, that we don't use said ENOUGH. It's one of my own flaws, so I don't claim to be an expert on it. But let me pull up a few examples:

"What are you doing here?" Braig asked.
"None of your business," Alysa said.
"Go back to you room," Braig said. "It is late."
"Are you trying to get on my nerves?" Alysa asked.
"Excuse me," Jorvan said. "I would like to speak with Lady Alysa."
"Be my guest," Braig said.
"What do you want?" Alysa asked.
"There is a private matter I must discuss with you," Jorvan said.

There's an example of gross overuse of said and asked. Now let's look at things when we AVOID said and asked.

"What are you doing here?" Braig questioned.
"None of your business," Alysa spat.
"Go back to you room," Braig ordered. "It is late."
"Are you trying to get on my nerves?" Alysa barked.
"Excuse me," Jorvan interrupted. "I would like to speak with Lady Alysa."
"Be my guest," Braig responded.
"What do you want?" Alysa interrogated.
"There is a private matter I must discuss with you," Jorvan explained.

Here we go, completely avoiding them. It looks really forced, doesn't it? In this case, we are forcing ourselves to avoid and it all comes out stilited.

Now here's Kylor's point:

"What are you doing here?" Braig asked irritatedly.
"None of your business," Alysa spat with disgust.
"Go back to you room," Braig ordered sternly. "It is late."
"Are you trying to get on my nerves?" Alysa challenged fiercely.
"Excuse me," Jorvan interrupted nervously. "I would like to speak with Lady Alysa."
"Be my guest," Braig responded stiffly.
"What do you want?" Alysa asked roughly.
"There is a private matter I must discuss with you," Jorvan replied resolvedly.

Yay more forcefulness!

Here's where I'm going to say that you should use all three!

"What are you doing here?" Braig asked.
"None of your business," Alysa spat.
"Go back to you room," Braig ordered sternly. "It is late."
"Are you trying to get on my nerves?" Alysa challenged.
"Excuse me," Jorvan interrupted nervously. "I would like to speak with Lady Alysa."
"Be my guest," Braig responded bitterly.
"What do you want?" Alysa asked sharply.
"There is a private matter I must discuss with you," Jorvan explained.

This is a little better, admittedly, and honestly at this point, you're theoretically fine. This sort of works, but here's where your own voice matters, your own style of prose. I'm personally fond of the notion that dialogue and description should not be treated separately. Even during a conversation, your characters will be acting, thinking, processing, and events will still play out. Here's a final version with that in mind.

"What are you doing here?" Braig asked as Alysa approached, clearly annoyed with her for being awake at this hour.
"None of your business," Alysa spat, making no effort to conceal her own annoyance.
"Go back to you room," Braig ordered sternly, tapping his finger on the hilt of his sheathed blade. A threat? How cute. "It is late."
"Are you trying to get on my nerves?" She put her hand on Freija, calling her younger brother's idle threat. Unlike her brother, she was willing to draw hers if necessary
"Excuse me," a voice interrupted the encounter. Alysa turned her attention to the voice, which belonged to the young soldier from earlier. Jorvan was his name? "I would like to speak with Lady Alysa," he said, his voice quivering.
"Be my guest," Braig responded bitterly, removing his hand from his hip and turning to go. Alysa smirked inwardly as he walked away.
"What do you want?" she asked sharply, turning her attention to the meek boy in front of her. The boy's brown hair was messy and his frame lanky. This is the kind of man I am to lead? she scoffed to herself.
"There is a private matter I must discuss with you," Jorvan explained, glancing nervously toward a room down the corridor.

Not the best example, but it backs up my points. There's a nice blend of saids and askeds, a nice blend of unique tags, a few adverbs, but there's really a whole lot more emphasis on the action, rather than the delivery of the dialogue itself. Remember, when working with prose, you don't always have to be clear. For instance, the "Are you trying to get on my nerves?" line above works with no tags because Alysa's own actions help convey her tone, not the tag itself. Really, what it comes down to is NOT AVOIDING ANYTHING and USING A LITTLE OF EVERYTHING IN MODERATION. Hope that helps.

[Jazzy Jinx]

Hey Kitsune, why don't you push your opinion a little bit harder. I don't think we're all quite sold that what you're saying is the law yet.

[gottalt3OP]

Nice work Kitsune. I like how you explained it, and I agree with what you said. I have the most troubles with still characters talking. I try to avoid having them glance down the corridors all the time, and describing hand gestures its kind of superfulous, so I always get something a little bit forced.
I don't know if you agree but I find discribing changes in the environment amusing. "… whispered Jacob as a sudden gust of wind lifted the fallen leaves" -> Like this, but better.

[Kitsune Inferno]

@Uncle:

Hey Kitsune, why don't you push your opinion a little bit harder. I don't think we're all quite sold that what you're saying is the law yet.

Writing's an art, not a science. :P There's no one way to write.~

[gottalt3OP]

Kenny, Kitsune said your own style mattered. That invalidates all the forcing he (she?) did.

[Jazzy Jinx]

Maybe it's just me, but regardless of how valid a point is, I don't like having it screamed at me like I'm so wrong a normal tone of voice isn't capable of conveying how wrong I am anymore.

[Kitsune Inferno]

@gotta<3OP:

Nice work Kitsune. I like how you explained it, and I agree with what you said. I have the most troubles with still characters talking. I try to avoid having them glance down the corridors all the time, and describing hand gestures its kind of superfulous, so I always get something a little bit forced.
I don't know if you agree but I find discribing changes in the environment amusing. "… whispered Jacob as a sudden gust of wind lifted the fallen leaves" -> Like this, but better.

If it leads into something later, then yes bring up the leaves blowing, or if it triggers an anecdote, then yes, mention them. If you're trying to paint a setting, set a mood (breezes usually imply tranquility, gusts of wind can be used to symbolize unrest), etc., then use it. If the leaves blowing bears no real significance though, it's best to leave it out.

In my example above, Braig touching his sword is a character trait, like a very passive threat. That's why I included it. You don't need to really bother with hand gestures and the like. Just what's relevant. :)

But again, there's no one way to write.~ Just don't over describe the scene.

–- Update From New Post Merge ---

@Uncle:

Maybe it's just me, but regardless of how valid a point is, I don't like having it screamed at me like I'm so wrong a normal tone of voice isn't capable of conveying how wrong I am anymore.

It's a posting habit of mine. I usually summarize long posts by bolding my points at the end, because I know some people aren't going to read all of it, it's just a habit. I'm not screaming anything. >_>

[Jazzy Jinx]

I still think writers should practice using dialogue tags as little as possible because though I don't agree with everything marimo's teacher is saying, I do agree that it's used as a crutch much too often. Amateur writers often try to use it in place of actual description but it comes off as repetitive and unnecessary instead. They're meant as markers so the reader doesn't get lost and loses track of who's speaking. If the speaker is obvious and the descriptions are adequate, then they're unnecessary.

Only using the dialogue tag "said" is really freaking dumb, though. If you're going to use them at all, you at least owe it to your readers to mix it up because the words will start to blend together and take you out of the moment.

[gottalt3OP]

In my country the only writtings I've seen without tags are those of elementary school kids. There is some weird styles, and Fernando Pessoa even joins dialogue and discription without any kind of quotes or marks (Its called free indirect speech in a literal translation) but no writter (that I recall) completly avoids tags. But portuguese writting always has that eloquent type of description. One of our best authors ever spent a whole chapter (like 4 or 5 pages) describing an house in great detail. (And I love dropping unrelated trivia).
I personally find beautiful when I see poetic prose, its a narrative, not some news article, and it annoys me how people try to get rid of every unnecessary detail. I, personally, am not a fun of simplistic writting. When we're writting we are telling a story. We can tell the story in a simplistic and direct way. Or we can tell the same story with extra detail to make the prosefancier. And dialogue tags kind of help doing that.
However they really sound bad when poorly used, and if something that sounds bad can be left out, we can obviously leave it out.

But its like desert. I can have dinner and avoid the crappy pudin. But if I can have a wonderful cake I will take it.

[Jazzy Jinx]

@gotta<3OP:

**However they really sound bad when poorly used, and if something that sounds bad can be left out, we can obviously leave it out.

But its like desert. I can have dinner and avoid the crappy pudin. But if I can have a wonderful cake I will take it.**

It's this right here exactly. Unless you're really good at maintaining the stream of consciousness and your descriptions are above par, you're better off just saying more with less. But it's also tied in with styles. Some of us are really good at imagery and so we capitalize on that, others are good at dialogue. You cater to your strengths and focus on them but no matter what it is you do, you always have to make sure that the point gets across.

And that's why amateur writers are often told to cut out as much as possible. They tend to focus much too strongly on getting the point across and not enough on the stream of consciousness. With seasoned writers, they have far more liberties and can get away with more because they can make it work.

[Kitsune Inferno]

@gotta<3OP:

In my country the only writtings I've seen without tags are those of elementary school kids. There is some weird styles, and Fernando Pessoa even joins dialogue and discription without any kind of quotes or marks (Its called free indirect speech in a literal translation) but no writter (that I recall) completly avoids tags. But portuguese writting always has that eloquent type of description. One of our best authors ever spent a whole chapter (like 4 or 5 pages) describing an house in great detail. (And I love dropping unrelated trivia).
I personally find beautiful when I see poetic prose, its a narrative, not some news article, and it annoys me how people try to get rid of every unnecessary detail. I, personally, am not a fun of simplistic writting. When we're writting we are telling a story. We can tell the story in a simplistic and direct way. Or we can tell the same story with extra detail to make the prosefancier. And dialogue tags kind of help doing that.
However they really sound bad when poorly used, and if something that sounds bad can be left out, we can obviously leave it out.

But its like desert. I can have dinner and avoid the crappy pudin. But if I can have a wonderful cake I will take it.

Yet usually description serves a greater purpose. Like, say, your house example. I'm willing to bet the descriptions said something about the characters or the setting or even the mood. A tidy house can imply that a character is a busybody, a house without electricity in a modern setting can say something about how out-of-touch with the world its inhabitants are, while a room with lots of pictures can evoke a longing mood, or cause the protagonist to reflect on past events. I'm not saying you should cut out detail, but all detail should serve a purpose. It's much more engaging when the details ultimately tell something rather than just being superfluous.

[gottalt3OP]

Of course. In the house example it was a nice way to lett us know more about the main character before going into a big flashback.
But I think superfluous details serve to help the reader form an image of the action center. Obviously going into great details to describe a sidewalk which will only be passed once its meaningless. But if kept consistent it's not necessarily bad.

Well, but now I am curious. Why're adverbs that bad?
It's difficult to say the guy talked in a weird way, without attaching adverbs, and sometimes using an equivalent just sounds even more forced.

[Pochipochi]

James Joyce disregarded quotation marks entirely in his dialogue and Thomas Pynchon writes in the most symbolic and dense prose possible for him.

There is a difference between 'learning to write' (which is about how to adapt your voice in a way that allows best reader comprehension) and there being some universal method everyone follows. There isn't.

There is only one universal rule in art: doowutchulike.

You can expand your ideas in copious amounts of theory and academia, but never allow it to decide what you like doing.

I'm a poor writer, but I can't imagine writing theory differs in execution very differently than music theory

If you think using only "said" is boring, your teacher can't stop you

[poopbucket]

@The:

James Joyce disregarded quotation marks entirely in his dialogue and Thomas Pynchon writes in the most symbolic and dense prose possible for him.

There is a difference between 'learning to write' (which is about how to adapt your voice in a way that allows best reader comprehension) and there being some universal method everyone follows. There isn't.

There is only one universal rule in art: doowutchulike.

You can expand your ideas in copious amounts of theory and academia, but never allow it to decide what you like doing.

I'm a poor writer, but I can't imagine writing theory differs in execution very differently than music theory

If you think using only "said" is boring, your teacher can't stop you

The best writers I've worked with are the ones who don't always follow the prompt.
But if you're just starting, follow the prompt. Don't do your own thing until you're good enough to. It's not about confidence, more about once you get basics down. It's like a sport. A Pitcher in baseball won't start making up his own style and whatnot until hes learned how to pitch and has a few innings under his belt.

….

But yeah, said it pretty freakin boring. But don't use too big of words either, and dont force words in that dont feel right. The most important part is the flow. Do what feels right to you. Then your editors can fix it so it feels right to everyone. Well, whatever, but if anyone wants to write together sometime, like via email or whatever. Or just wants to share writing for editing or just to have someone to read it, hit me up.

[Jazzy Jinx]

I have to give it to you, Cuddles…

You are a Reading God.

[Jazzy Jinx]

Kitsune and I were talking on AIM a moment ago and he mentioned a writing concept known as the "through line". Personally, I've never heard of it before, but from what I can gather it's something like the stream of consciousness. Whether or not you've heard about it though, Kitsune is going to share his thoughts on it.

–-

Incidentally, seeing as how this thread and the General thread that brennen made both serve mostly the same purpose, is it possible for one of the mods to merge the two together? I'd prefer it if I kept the first post but if brennen gets priority being an admin, well then… Oh well.

Thanks, CCC.~

[Kitsune Inferno]

A "through line" is basically like the spine that your writing follows, and it's kind of what ties everything in your work together. It's most obvious in argumentative writing where you should be arguing for a particular point. If you lose sight of that, your work goes off on a ridiculous tangent and you might not even be arguing what you started with. It's something that plagues me all the time, and that's what happens when you don't have a through line.

Basically, as long as you have a beginning, middle, and end, you've got a through line. Almost. Your story could be… Fox lives in a village and goes on an adventure -> Fox winds up opposing the Raccoon Army who is trying to destory the world -> Fox becomes a rabbit to defeat the Raccoon Army Leader. Sure you've got a beginning, middle, and end here. But that Act 3 is rather... disjointed isn't it? You can't really have that. Just having a beginning, middle, and end isn't enough.

The beginning is the defining stage. This isn't just about defining the characters and setting, but also about defining what is at stake in the middle, and also defining the final conflict. All great stories kind of have this full circle element to them, and that's because the ending should be directly rooted to the beginning.

The middle is the transitioning stage. Here, you're developing plot threads that build a kind of bridge between the first and third act.

The end finally should take what happens in the transition stage and look at directly how it impacts the defining stage to create the resolution stage. The climax should have some rooting in the opening chapters.

So I'm just discussing basic plot structure? Well, yeah, but the importance of this is that the "through line" is what keeps everything on track. You don't have to be obvious to the reader, but you have to have this destination in mind from the outset and the "through line" is basically that.

So if Fox is going to be a rabbit to beat the final boss, you might need to litter some rabbits along the way. Foreshadow. Yeah.

Dammit, Kenny, why are you making me do this? >_>

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

You're going to jail, Kenny.

[Jazzy Jinx]

Incidentally, if you're reading this brennen, I'm sincerely sorry if you're opposed to this merge. If you want, you could always split them up again and just close mine.

Otherwise, let the discussion keep on rolling.

!

[Crossword]

That's pretty much what I do when I've been writing. Come up with three main points at the beginning, middle, and end, and use those three as a guideline for how to proceed. How do I connect point A with point B? How do the characters get to those points? How would it make sense for them to do so, etc. Up until now I've just done this in my head, but for my next story, if I ever get around to actually writing it which I hope I will, I've actually jotted down notes and bullet points on how the plot will unfold. Should help greatly when it comes to remembering things.

[piratemarimo]

Ahh I'm so embarrassed…. my mom's been pestering me to see some of the writings I did. I just... it feels so silly. I finally sent them, but IDK. I liked the characters which Bartart inspired me to create and I hope to keep using them, but they make me cringe somehow. I was perfectly fine with them before (except the British ninja one, and the two short stories), but I feel more shy about sharing things. I just scrolled through them all trying to figure out which ones would be okay to show, and I found myself hating each and every one. =____= I'm not even entirely sure what's making me feel this way. sigh.

I should think up more through lines. My problem is I always tend to have a beginning and somewhat of a middle but never an end.

[LaCaSiNa]

I have beginnings and ends, but usually figure out the middle stuff while writing.

By the way, I would just like to ask what methods do you guys use when trying to think of what happens next in your story? Do you keep it all inside your head or use pen and paper perhaps, writing down ideas? I have a habit of storing every single thing in my mind and in general I have no problems with it, but of course some things are bound to be forgotten. I used to have a whole notebook full of character descriptions, drawings and explanations of various stuff. I'm really sad that it's gone now, even though most of the things I came up with as a teenager were simply embarrassing. Nowadays I have a notebook where I jot down names, but I have filled only one page so far. I wish I could learn to utilize it more, because I'm afraid my mind won't store everything for all eternity.

[piratemarimo]

Apparently my mom thinks my writing has come a long way. =3= I don't remember the last time she read my stuff, but in a way it's nice to hear from someone who always used to do that. I mean, I feel like my writing still has a long way to go and that I haven't improved much.

The thing I hate is when I keep something only in my head thinking "hey I'll remember that! no problem!" and then I forget. ….. I never have plans for anything. Which I guess is a problem. It all tends to be episodic with no concept of what the journey's end will be.

[Kitsune Inferno]

@LaCa: I try to write down things, but I always default to "mind-storing" things. >=\ I've been making it a habit to at least write down things already established on the page (eye color, hair color, body type, backstory) in a master document to prevent inconsistences though.

[Crossword]

Most of my stuff is currently in my head, though I do have a notebook filled with sketches and drawings of the characters, including ones that I have yet to introduce. I also have a document on my computer with lists of all the characters' attributes. Eye and hair color, height, age, birthdate, stuff like that.

Since Stargazer's plot is pretty straight forward that's largely the extent of my preparations. My next story's plot is looking to be a little more complicated, so I've done some bullet point outlines, as I mentioned above. Simple stuff for now, like ''So-and-so does such-and-such because of this-and-that'' ''Such-and-such happens to other so-and-so'' ''Shit goes down''.

[Jazzy Jinx]

@marimo: I think your stories are really good. It might seem like I don't read anything since I usually never comment on anyone's works but I actually do look at every thread in here. And I have to say, you have a very solid style when it comes to clarity. That's something even I have trouble with. Your works are, for the most part, always usually clear and laid back. It's a style that I'll never get tired of reading and I don't think anyone else here would get tired of it either. So yes, you should feel proud.

And keep writing.

@Laca: I have a billion notes. I've been taking notes since I was six years old and have tried to save as many of them as possible. It's true that a lot of them are flat out stupid but they can also offer interesting new spins and ideas on whatever you currently have laid out for your own story. I believe note taking is a life saver since they're kind of like a tome of ideas to dig into whenever you need to fill in those pesky holes in the story that your creativity can't seem to tackle.

It also helps you see how you've evolved as a writer over time when you compare/contrast your new ideas to older ones. Or it can save you if you've gone too far with your current ideas and need to simplify them back again. No matter what though, I'd recommend at least some level of note taking to everyone.

[poopbucket]

@LaCaSiNa:

I have beginnings and ends, but usually figure out the middle stuff while writing.

By the way, I would just like to ask what methods do you guys use when trying to think of what happens next in your story? Do you keep it all inside your head or use pen and paper perhaps, writing down ideas? I have a habit of storing every single thing in my mind and in general I have no problems with it, but of course some things are bound to be forgotten. I used to have a whole notebook full of character descriptions, drawings and explanations of various stuff. I'm really sad that it's gone now, even though most of the things I came up with as a teenager were simply embarrassing. Nowadays I have a notebook where I jot down names, but I have filled only one page so far. I wish I could learn to utilize it more, because I'm afraid my mind won't store everything for all eternity.

It's always good to write down your ideas because oftentimes you'll just keep writing and end up with much more than an idea. Although it's a pain to write every single idea… For me, I usually don't finish a story in one go. I generally have to switch to different projects multiple times before finishing one. And if I didn't write down as much as possible then I'd never ever be able to remember everything.

[ChesCa]

I'm like George R.R. Martin: I'm terrible at writing things down. Everything big and small (the small parts are the worst) are stored in my cranium. The only reason they stay in there at all is because I look forward to writing every single thing I think of because it's all cool, creative and/or challenging.

No sarcasm.

Ironically I'm better at preparing character designs in my drawings than writing down plot points (though TC does have a master document. It needs it a hell of a lot more that Bound.)

Btw Crossword I'm just waiting for when I can sit down and read your story in one sitting. ^^; I haven't forgotten ya.

[Kylor]

I never take notes. Ever. This is mainly because when I write a story, I only have the most important, vital details in my head, and then fill in the details as I go along. I have several ideas for how certain things will go, and I can visualize parts of a story long before I get there, but I feel like if I actually write it down, it'll be locked in that way, and I hate that. You'd be surprised at how many parts of my story were made up completely on the fly, just because I decided to change what I had in my head, and just went in a completely different direction. I will take some notes on trivial matters, however, such as if I have an idea I want to lead up to, and I need to figure out the exact sequence of events that would have to happen to get to that point, or things like minor details I set up that I'd forget about if I didn't write them down somewhere.

[Jazzy Jinx]

Notes do not have to be constrictive, they're just there to help save ideas and provide a map in case you get lost on your way. I personally feel that without some degree of note-taking, you definitely run a greater risk of running into plot holes. Doing things on the fly is great and all but it's not something that can be done indefinitely. Very few writers have the talent to pull that off and even then, I doubt they'd recommend it as a method.

However, I do make up dialogue and a lot of situations up on the fly. It's still good to have all the main points (and even some minor points) written down somewhere so you can rest easier. Once you've gone deep enough, you're kinda stuck there.

[Sai-chan]

/pops in

Congrats Kenny, I attempted to write something. Even if it is short. :I

/disappears

[Jazzy Jinx]

I'll make sure to check it out in a second.~

Done. I should really get back to reviewing all the other stories around here…

Actually, you know what? I will start reviewing as many of the stories here as I can. I'll go ahead and make a list of stories that I've decided to read and review. To be fair, I'll go in alphabetical order:

• Chimera Phase by Mumbling2
• Concerto di Ali by Kitsune Inferno
• Garbled Sanctuary by LaCaSiNa
• Liberate Me Ex Hoc Furor by Rogues' Gallery
• Randomness (I know it's not the title) by piratemarimo
• Stargazer by Crossword
• Trials or Tribulations by Gizmo
• Yukino by Cuddles the Dark

If you're not on this list then you should pester me to go look at your stuff. I'm strictly doing the first page since you should all be updating your stories regardless.~

[Gizmo]

Found this blog post while browsing the internet for Pixar and Brave.

http://storyshots.tumblr.com/post/25032057278/22-storybasics-ive-picked-up-in-my-time-at-pixar

Seems like general, solid advice for any storyteller.

[piratemarimo]

I can't tell which story you're referring to, but I'm going to assume it's the first untitled story I started. IDK, I think I might have more than one untitled story, but I can't remember off the top of my head.

[Kitsune Inferno]

Think he just means your thread in general

[piratemarimo]

ohgod. I hope not. I've got some cringeworthy stuff mixed in there.

[LaCaSiNa]

Holy crap you guys.

Inspiration struck me like lightning today while I was listening to Sigus Rós' new album and noticed it was mixed with the sound of raining. I dunno, I just got that MUST WRITE IMMEDIATELY feeling and continued one of my written-in-Finnish stories, which I intend to translate and enter in the monthly someday.

So I just wanted to ask

How does it feel for you guys to be inspired? Is it a sudden, passing moment like it mostly is for me or can you access it regularly? For me it's a mix between exhilaration and careful consideration. Even in my most feverish bout of inspiration I'm unable to write without editing my process at some point.

Which kind of reminds me about that editing video Kenny made a while ago - I kind of want to do something similar. Even if it's just for my own amusement.

[piratemarimo]

I usually get fleeting moments of inspiration when I listen to some awesome music or see a striking sort of image. I mean, it could even be a sentence that gets me inspired. I don't follow through with most of my ideas, though!! This is basically me:

http://fyeahwriterleopard.tumblr.com/