Why subordinate/ally?
The SHs Pirates can't protect FI with just their Flag/name, they need a strong subordinate/ally, it would be either Mama or the WB pirates in this case. this would allow them to Sail straight to raftel without going back.
Why subordinate/ally?
The SHs Pirates can't protect FI with just their Flag/name, they need a strong subordinate/ally, it would be either Mama or the WB pirates in this case. this would allow them to Sail straight to raftel without going back.
It's more likely that Blackbeard will be the next nakama than Big Mam becoming Luffy's subordinate or ally. Why would you expect one of the Yonkou – evidently one of the four strongest and most powerful pirates in the whole world -- to a. be beaten that early on and b. bow down to a rookie (though it's arguable if Luffy still fits into that category but you get my point) and protect an island in his place?
I would love it if the new wolrd arc would start as a cat and a mouse act. Luffy challenging big mom but getting nearly killed (possibly one of the crew members die) and luffy learns the true order of the world and once again becomes stronger just to one day challenge big mom again. Also the thought of SWs escaping the monstorous big mom sends shivers down my spine.
I would love it if the new wolrd arc would start as a cat and a mouse act. Luffy challenging big mom but getting nearly killed (possibly one of the crew members die) and luffy learns the true order of the world and once again becomes stronger just to one day challenge big mom again. Also the thought of SWs escaping the monstorous big mom sends shivers down my spine.
So basically you'd love it if One Piece becomes Bleach?
People scared to except the fact that Luffy wont be going foward for entirety of the manga? He'll likely have to settle down in one spot for awhile once he becomes a yonkou.
So basically you'd love it if One Piece becomes Bleach?
Wut? O.o I never said that. I'm sorry if I made it sound a bit Aizen-ish but do read my text again. One piece is so much better at expressin absolute desperation. You could say it's one of its moneymakers.
Wut? O.o I never said that. I'm sorry if I made it sound a bit Aizen-ish but do read my text again. One piece is so much better at expressin absolute desperation. You could say it's one of its moneymakers.
Nah, I like the mix it contains at the moment…Ace-like moments should remain the exception (and used at essential points in the story, not in every two chapters....)
People scared to except the fact that Luffy wont be going foward for entirety of the manga? He'll likely have to settle down in one spot for awhile once he becomes a yonkou.
People scared to except the fact that Luffy wont be going foward for entirety of the manga? He'll likely have to settle down in one spot for awhile once he becomes a yonkou.
People do not have to accept it - because the whole story of One Piece is Luffy getting to … One Piece.
Roger conquered the Grand Line in around 2 years (IIRC) so Luffy doing the same fits into the whole Roger/Luffy Duality, Luffy shouldn't need to settle down as Yonkou even if he becomes one.
Luffy will not become a Yonkou. He will be the Pirate King.
@.access:
Luffy will not become a Yonkou. He will be the Pirate King.
Blackbeard is a Yonkou and he wants to be pirate king.
Being one doesn't necessarily mean you can't become the other.
BB is a Yonkou and wants to be Pirate King… but he will not be. That's the point.
@.access:
Luffy will not become a Yonkou. He will be the Pirate King.
He can still become a Yonkou prior to becoming a Pirate King - Remember he was originally just a rookie - then a Supernova - next step is Yonkou especially if he takes down BM.
Now this may just be me misunderstanding the whole concept, but isn't being a yonkou just something the world started calling these pirates, because they're strong and badass and better than everyone else etc. etc. - not something they signed up for? Because if then, Luffy will probably become a yonkou at some point, and then proceed to become the pirate king.
Now this may just be me misunderstanding the whole concept, but isn't being a yonkou just something the world started calling these pirates, because they're strong and badass and better than everyone else etc. etc. - not something they signed up for? Because if then, Luffy will probably become a yonkou at some point, and then proceed to become the pirate king.
You're right. Garp said that the Yonkou acted as if they were emperors, ruling their territory in the New World, so the people called them the Yonkou. I don't remember him saying that theycalled themselves Yonkou. In that case, Luffy might be a Yonkou, before he'll become the Pirate King as he just made FI his territory.
My Personal Feel on the Downfall of the Yonko:
Big Mom- Defeated/Replaced by Luffy
Kaidou- ???
Shanks- Killed by Blackbeard
You guys do realize what Yonkou means right? It means 4 Emperors. They are called this because they rule the New World like Emperors, each having their own territory and allies. Unless Luffy kills Big Mom, I doubt he will take her place. If Luffy defeats Big Mom, what is stopping her from remaining in control of her territory and allies, AKA everything that gives her that title. If she is defeated, then she will recover, and hunt Luffy. If she is killed, then it's a different story, as it is her directly, that maintains this authority.
I don't want Shanks to be killed by BB at all. He is just… So Haki-beast, a total badass, and freaking awesome to be killed xD
Edit:
Martin, thanks for pointing that out. Okay, so Luffy won't become one of the Yonkou unless one of them happen to die. That's settled for now.
You guys do realize what Yonkou means right? It means 4 Emperors. They are called this because they rule the New World like Emperors, each having their own territory and allies. Unless Luffy kills Big Mom, I doubt he will take her place. If Luffy defeats Big Mom, what is stopping her from remaining in control of her territory and allies, AKA everything that gives her that title. If she is defeated, then she will recover, and hunt Luffy. If she is killed, then it's a different story, as it is her directly, that maintains this authority.
I scorn your logic.
Although you do raise a valid point - but if Luffy does defeat BM to claim FI as his territory then could it not be claimed that he would do the same for the rest of the territory … Or the territory that she has might align with a path into the new world towards Raftel so he has to claim a new island each time? Ugh sounds way too complicated though.
I scorn your logic.
Although you do raise a valid point - but if Luffy does defeat BM to claim FI as his territory then could it not be claimed that he would do the same for the rest of the territory … Or the territory that she has might align with a path into the new world towards Raftel so he has to claim a new island each time? Ugh sounds way too complicated though.
The difference between Big Mom and Luffy is both the size of their crews, and their motives. Luffy wants Fishman Island to be his territory to protect it, Big Mom is doing it for business. If Luffy defeats Big Mom, then in my mind, I see her chasing him, and sending her allies after him, creating tension and plot for the New World. At this point, what would she have to gain from Fishman Island. If they prefer Luffy, are going to put up a fight, and she's to busy trying to save her reputation by chasing Luffy, why bother destroying Fishman Island.
I'm saying that if Luffy defeats her, if doesn't knock her down as an Emperor, but rather challenge her. They now have a rivalry, a reason to fight, Luffy defeated her and won Fishman Island. As the saying goes, Luffy may have won the battle, but not the war.
You guys do realize what Yonkou means right? It means 4 Emperors. They are called this because they rule the New World like Emperors, each having their own territory and allies. Unless Luffy kills Big Mom, I doubt he will take her place. If Luffy defeats Big Mom, what is stopping her from remaining in control of her territory and allies, AKA everything that gives her that title. If she is defeated, then she will recover, and hunt Luffy. If she is killed, then it's a different story, as it is her directly, that maintains this authority.
I was thinking about how big mom is going to handle being defeated.Is she going to go hide in a corner and accept defeat? Is she going to be executed by the marines?
Basically,even if she is defeated,she'll still be a yonkou,unless she completely gives up on piracy,and disbands her entire crew,and calls all her allies ,saying she's finished.
I see it that when Luffy defeats her,she'll kinda be his ally,in the way that she offers protection,tell her allies not to try and kill Luffy and try and fight off any attacking ships.Her defeat might just be something between the big mon pirates and the strawhats
And Luffy WON'T be a yonkou,all the territory is already in controll.So he'll have to go to all of big mons lands and fight every single person and re-claim it,like Teach.And Luffy doesn't care ,he's just going in a straight line to the One Piece.
Other option is that by taking FI as his territory could lead to it being destroyed - fulfilling Shirly's prophecy. Also serving to educate Luffy that if he wants to claim territory he has to be able to Protect it.
You guys do realize what Yonkou means right? It means 4 Emperors. They are called this because they rule the New World like Emperors, each having their own territory and allies. Unless Luffy kills Big Mom, I doubt he will take her place. If Luffy defeats Big Mom, what is stopping her from remaining in control of her territory and allies, AKA everything that gives her that title. If she is defeated, then she will recover, and hunt Luffy. If she is killed, then it's a different story, as it is her directly, that maintains this authority.
The thing is, if Luffy becomes stronger than Big Mom, and starts claiming territories, wouldn't he seen seen as a greater pirate then her, and thus replace her as Yonko? I forsee Luffy defeating her and someone (maybe Kidd) killing her.
- sobs *
I don't want Shanks to be killed by BB at all. He is just… So Haki-beast, a total badass, and freaking awesome to be killed xD
Edit:
Martin, thanks for pointing that out. Okay, so Luffy won't become one of the Yonkou unless one of them happen to die. That's settled for now.
I think BB will kill Shanks.
I scorn your logic.
Although you do raise a valid point - but if Luffy does defeat BM to claim FI as his territory then could it not be claimed that he would do the same for the rest of the territory … Or the territory that she has might align with a path into the new world towards Raftel so he has to claim a new island each time? Ugh sounds way too complicated though.
Not true. Blackbeard killed Whitebeard, but had to then reclaim all the territories. It didn't just shift over.
idk how luffy could beat Big Mom alone, I understand he beat a shichibukai at the beginning of the grandline, but my assumption is people who stay out of the new world grow weaker then they were in there because it requires so much strength, your not being challenged as much if your only on grandline level instead of new world level, and croc's ego had seemed to be smashed by whitebeard
if he can beat a yonkou on a one on one fight it'd be insane, my guess is a reestablishment of the luffy, law, kidd trio from back in sabaody with possible backing from there crew, but even that seems insane, maybe I'm just overestimating what a yonkou means
EDIT: i think a Black Beard vs shanks fight is inevitable, maybe it's what brings luffy to his peak, the krillin killed by freeza moment of one piece
@Big:
Not true. Blackbeard killed Whitebeard, but had to then reclaim all the territories. It didn't just shift over.
I never inferred that it did - said he would have to then start claiming terrirtories that had belonged to BM - which may coincide with Roger's direction to Raftel.
if he can beat a yonkou on a one on one fight it'd be insane, my guess is a reestablishment of the luffy, law, kidd trio from back in sabaody with possible backing from there crew, but even that seems insane, maybe I'm just overestimating what a yonkou means
Well WB was sick and used his commanders to keep the power to save him from always fighting - we haven't seen Shanks let lose - no idea on BM and Kaidou is still an unknown. So till we have a definative idea of what a Yonkou in full health is capable or Luffy going all out is that question can't be answered.
Well truth be told we know very little to nothing about Luffys current level of strength and we know absolutely nothing about her strength as well. Saying he wont be able to do it, when they clash, only because it seems to soon…
Well Idk is it?
We'll see about that but it is my opinion Luffy and his crew have grown enormously durring the time skip. They have grown enormously even before that durring their journey and that journey took a lot less than 2 years. Now with "only" training for 2 whole years. I can imagine them being quite a crew
EDIT: i think a Black Beard vs shanks fight is inevitable, maybe it's what brings luffy to his peak, the krillin killed by freeza moment of one piece
I was predicting this in my head the other day Black Beard kills Shanks and Luffy becomes insanely mad at Black Beard and gets pushed to his limit (Gear Four)?
I was predicting this in my head the other day Black Beard kills Shanks and Luffy becomes insanely mad at Black Beard and gets pushed to his limit (Gear Four)?
my feeling is a bit different.
i also think that someone dear to luffy will be killed by BB and that will initiate the final battle between luffy and BB. the thing is i dont think it will be shanks because i predict that shanks will become the 'special' final boss and fight luffy in the raftel treasure chamber/in front of one piece. that doesnt necessarily means that shanks is evil, he just want to make sure that luffy is strong enough to carry the title of the pirate king and continue what roger was going to do before his death.
i will be very mad if oda doesnt make a luffy vs shanks battle.
Other option is that by taking FI as his territory could lead to it being destroyed - fulfilling Shirly's prophecy. Also serving to educate Luffy that if he wants to claim territory he has to be able to Protect it.
Luffy will have the WBs and their Allies Protect FI and teh rest of islands he will take over.
Luffy will have the WBs and their Allies Protect FI and teh rest of islands he will take over.
It's possible - you know it could be this is the down hump of the story and Luffy could go racing to Raftel. Oda's been doing it for quite a while now so he might be condensing a lot of stories or skipping other arcs just to get Luffy racing to the end so taking on a Yonkou this early might not be as crazy as it seems.
I was predicting this in my head the other day Black Beard kills Shanks and Luffy becomes insanely mad at Black Beard and gets pushed to his limit (Gear Four)?
G-zuz man, ruffy's kuririn was Ace dudes! He was his brother, and I think that now the whole crew is ready for New World, there won't be
any other crew uber upgrade like gear four.
Remember Ruffy was trained by Rayleigh and Ray told he fullfiled it and expend more 6 months!!!
Bout the prediction i think that FI will remain intact proving that ruffy can make he's own destiny or that the D can change the destiny this kind of stuff
I think eventually Luffy will reach the strength of a Yonkou, it just depends on when he gets there. Im sure he can be on par with a Vice Admiral at the least, and can now give an admiral a run for their money. Once Luffy can fight on par with someone like Charlotte or Kaido, I see the Blackbeard/Shanks fight next
I doubt Oda'll bring Enel back in the story. And I'm pretty sure that he is currently living in the moon, and that BB don't know about him at all.
There's a reason Enel was not shown in any of the new…. what do i call them.... you know the cover pages, with old characters after the timeskip.
You'll see.
@Razzle:
There's a reason Enel was not shown in any of the new…. what do i call them.... you know the cover pages, with old characters after the timeskip.
You'll see.
I wish Enel would return, but his absence from the cover pages could be because….uhm...he already got a whole cover STORY devoted to him.
Also, how can Oda reintroduce him in a way that doesn't feel completely out of place?
"Hey I'm back with my army of mechanical midgets, praise me FFS!"
???
The current cover pages are to sorta wrap up characters we aren't going to be seeing much of, and other than Wapol has been made up entirely of non-villains. Enel will without a doubt be coming back. What was shown in his cover story is way to important not to have him it touched on ever again. If he were to have appeared in this cover story it would have maybe meant we wouldn't see him in the main story, but him not being there is evidence we'll be seeing him.
Luffy will not become a Yonkou, he will gain the respect of the Yonkou he defeats/saves and therefore they will work for him.
Much like he gains allies from Shichibukai, Marines and other Pirates.
In laymen terms, he will gain the support of at least half the Yonkou to take down the Marines once and for all.
If someone is taking over Big Mam's territory it's Don Flamingo.
Luffy doesn't want a big crew and he would need soldiers in order to watch over territories.
@Baou:
I was thinking about how big mom is going to handle being defeated.Is she going to go hide in a corner and accept defeat? Is she going to be executed by the marines?
Basically,even if she is defeated,she'll still be a yonkou,unless she completely gives up on piracy,and disbands her entire crew,and calls all her allies ,saying she's finished.
I see it that when Luffy defeats her,she'll kinda be his ally,in the way that she offers protection,tell her allies not to try and kill Luffy and try and fight off any attacking ships.Her defeat might just be something between the big mon pirates and the strawhats
And Luffy WON'T be a yonkou,all the territory is already in controll.So he'll have to go to all of big mons lands and fight every single person and re-claim it,like Teach.And Luffy doesn't care ,he's just going in a straight line to the One Piece.
We won't have to worry about this if shes dead.
Luffy will not become a Yonkou, he will gain the respect of the Yonkou he defeats/saves and therefore they will work for him.
Much like he gains allies from Shichibukai, Marines and other Pirates.
In laymen terms, he will gain the support of at least half the Yonkou to take down the Marines once and for all.If someone is taking over Big Mam's territory it's Don Flamingo.
Luffy doesn't want a big crew and he would need soldiers in order to watch over territories.
^ agree with everything above.
my feeling is a bit different.
i also think that someone dear to luffy will be killed by BB and that will initiate the final battle between luffy and BB. the thing is i dont think it will be shanks because i predict that shanks will become the 'special' final boss and fight luffy in the raftel treasure chamber/in front of one piece. that doesnt necessarily means that shanks is evil, he just want to make sure that luffy is strong enough to carry the title of the pirate king and continue what roger was going to do before his death.
i will be very mad if oda doesnt make a luffy vs shanks battle.
It would be epic if Luffy fought Shanks at the end but kind of annoying and cheesy.
Luffy:Yes I finally found One Piece!
Shanks: Gotta get through me first Luffy!
Luffy: -_-
Edit: I'm about 98% sure One Piece won't be treasure.
I wish Enel would return, but his absence from the cover pages could be because….uhm...he already got a whole cover STORY devoted to him.
Also, how can Oda reintroduce him in a way that doesn't feel completely out of place?
"Hey I'm back with my army of mechanical midgets, praise me FFS!"
???
Unless the current theories regarding Uranus is incorrect, and there is something related to the final weapon on the moon. Wouldn't that be something, haha. I love Enel, but I won't ever get my hopes up.
Luffy will not become a Yonkou, he will gain the respect of the Yonkou he defeats/saves and therefore they will work for him.
Much like he gains allies from Shichibukai, Marines and other Pirates.
In laymen terms, he will gain the support of at least half the Yonkou to take down the Marines once and for all.If someone is taking over Big Mam's territory it's Don Flamingo.
Luffy doesn't want a big crew and he would need soldiers in order to watch over territories.
I agree, I see Don and BB being the last boss characters in the series.
@Superbear:
I agree, I see Don and BB being the last boss characters in the series.
I would say akainu and BB as last boss, donfla would be an akainu previa
I would say akainu and BB as last boss, donfla would be an akainu previa
Oh, forgot about him, I agree.
It would be epic if Luffy fought Shanks at the end but kind of annoying and cheesy.
Luffy:Yes I finally found One Piece!
Shanks: Gotta get through me first Luffy!
Luffy: -_-Edit: I'm about 98% sure One Piece won't be treasure.
Shanks as part of Roger's crew probably doesnt care much about One Piece or becoming Pirate King. He's been there and done that. All the views we've seen of him and his crew have shown him basically chillin, and like WB I think he simply just enjoys life and hangs around. Kaidou and BM are presumably the sort who want to find One Piece but are not capable (Kaidou was pwned by Shanks just before the Marineford battle).
Now you add BB to the mix and suddenly the 'power balance' in the New World looks precarious. Suddenly you have 3 powerful crews actively after One Piece and only 1 powerful crew who has the capability to keep them in check. Say what you will, the Marines are as scared of Shanks as they were of WB, if not more. On the face of it, the fact that Shanks and crew can match WB's power without DF users, massive armada's and crazy allies should make them an even more formidable enemy. Shanks crew is also at their peak in terms of age and skill unlike WB who had faded with age (and his commanders had seemingly lost fighting practice). Add to this mix the fact that Shanks probably knows about One Piece's contents and location and he is without doubt the PK in all but name right now. He just doesnt want all the hype…
It may be that like Rayleigh, he has (having knowledge of One Piece's contents) come to the conclusion that it isnt worth fighting over. Heck he may even have taken on the task of preventing One Piece and its incendiary truths from ending up in the wrong hands. Shanks may be the only thing standing between the world and complete chaos, especially if someone like BB gets their hands on the knowledge of the Ancient Weapons
It would be epic if Luffy fought Shanks at the end but kind of annoying and cheesy.
Luffy:Yes I finally found One Piece!
Shanks: Gotta get through me first Luffy!
Luffy: -_-Edit: I'm about 98% sure One Piece won't be treasure.
im certainly sure that one piece is not a treasure as well. i think its more like a 'power' to conquer the world.
shanks isnt evil (it will be a stupid twist if shanks is evil and he is using luffy all this time) and he doesnt seem to have any interest to become the pirate king, so that clearly not the reason for him to fight luffy. what i have in mind is, he challenge luffy in raftel just to make sure that luffy got what it takes to use the 'power', to use one piece.
shanks probably got this promise to roger whatsoever to make sure that the person who got his hand on one piece is the intended person. maybe a strong, good-hearted person who bears the 'D' name. there is a reason why roger gave his hat to shanks.
Shanks as part of Roger's crew probably doesnt care much about One Piece or becoming Pirate King. He's been there and done that. All the views we've seen of him and his crew have shown him basically chillin, and like WB I think he simply just enjoys life and hangs around. Kaidou and BM are presumably the sort who want to find One Piece but are not capable (Kaidou was pwned by Shanks just before the Marineford battle).
Yeah,cause Shanks is that strong and that cool that he was able to 'pwn' his equal without collecting any damage.:getlost:
Shanks as part of Roger's crew probably doesnt care much about One Piece or becoming Pirate King. He's been there and done that.
This is probably true to some extent. Then again, it's possible he doesn't know what One Piece is, just as Buggy doesn't know what it is. It certainly seems as the hat symbolized Roger's acknowledgement that Shanks would be the one who would be able to do something about One Piece, or even find it, if he doesn't know where it is. But the day Shanks found Luffy, and lost his arm, he gave up on himself going up to the task. He saw something in Luffy that he believed would be able to accomplish what Roger wanted.
Kaidou and BM are presumably the sort who want to find One Piece but are not capable (Kaidou was pwned by Shanks just before the Marineford battle).
Shanks defeated Kaidou? It was a skirmish, and if they "lightly" battled it out, it's possible Kaidou would have given up on fighting Shanks, as it wasn't in his interest. Or Kaidou retreated. I don't know, but you do? And try to think about this: Kaidou decided to rise against the WB, the strongest man in the world, during a very intense time for WB himself. Big Mam didn't do this, but Kaidou did. Sure he was intercepted by Shanks, but the very fact that Kaidou went after WB during this urgent time period, where he had to go save Ace proved only that Kaidou had the ambition to take on WB during the worst possible time, with him and his crew all hyped up for war. Kaidou most likely had the intention of going all out against WB, just to stick to him. Who knows, perhaps he had a past grudge?
note, that Shanks had Roger's hat long before the made it to Raftel. The hat is probably not THAT much important and might not be connected to One Piece in any way, apart from being headgear of the one who had found it and the one who will in the future.