@MDL:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/family-shot-by-rebels-because-of-gaddafi-surname.html
getting a little too trigger-happy, it seems.
I really hope the NTC apologised and pays compensation and doesn't just say how it's not their fault etc.
@MDL:
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/family-shot-by-rebels-because-of-gaddafi-surname.html
getting a little too trigger-happy, it seems.
I really hope the NTC apologised and pays compensation and doesn't just say how it's not their fault etc.
The rebels have basically captured all of the southern desert, meaning Bani Walid and Sirte are oasises.
Straight out of a fucking nightmare:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15039783
Syria is starting to scare me a bit, apparently the religious/ethnic divides are deepening. This is beginning to have echoes of Yugoslavia.
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/features/2011/09/2011923115735281764.html
I suppose this belongs here.
Benghazi is going through the second phase of change now. Understanding the meanings of 'rights' 'democracy' 'freedom'.
Just yesterday and today the students of my university have created a chaotic scene in university. Its a private school that has been open for 4 years only so there have been no graduations.
The students have set up a tent, brought a t.v. station for around an hour, and Beat up 2 of the teachers. Harrassed the deans and the head-dean of the university.They want the university to be free, to not open untill the other goverment state university opens, and the freedom to transfer to the other university even though the other uni will not accept them.
This has caused the university to close down and i might miss a whole year!!
Now every problem seems to be brought out to the public in a fight of humiliation and "cousins with ak-47"s. So the problems of the second phaase have begun.
@bartholemew:
I suppose this belongs here.
Benghazi is going through the second phase of change now. Understanding the meanings of 'rights' 'democracy' 'freedom'.
Just yesterday and today the students of my university have created a chaotic scene in university. Its a private school that has been open for 4 years only so there have been no graduations.
The students have set up a tent, brought a t.v. station for around an hour, and Beat up 2 of the teachers. Harrassed the deans and the head-dean of the university.They want the university to be free, to not open untill the other goverment state university opens, and the freedom to transfer to the other university even though the other uni will not accept them.
This has caused the university to close down and i might miss a whole year!!
Now every problem seems to be brought out to the public in a fight of humiliation and "cousins with ak-47"s. So the problems of the second phaase have begun.
Well, no one can say that it wasn't expected. The real question is whether that is allowed to lead the country into chaos and long years of internal strife, which is always skulking around the corner after a war or a revolution. I sure hope it won't spread all across the country. It would be rather unpleasant.
What do you think is going to happen, bart? Is the "rebel" coalition strong enough to exert discipline and create peace and prosperity?
__
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/10/20111021304356990.html
In other news, something interesting is going on in Turkey. The Syrian opposition has apparently created a joint front, and they're getting more and more organized. Wow, is all I can say.
I don't trust the Syrian TC much, they're showing to be very incompetent at working with the countries minority groups. They even managed to piss off the Kurds who are shoo-ins for allies (unlike the rest).
They need to understand how important this is, and how ignoring it is walking down the path to hell, a hell that will make Libya's war look like ice cream and puppies.
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@bartholemew:
I suppose this belongs here.
Benghazi is going through the second phase of change now. Understanding the meanings of 'rights' 'democracy' 'freedom'.
Just yesterday and today the students of my university have created a chaotic scene in university. Its a private school that has been open for 4 years only so there have been no graduations.
The students have set up a tent, brought a t.v. station for around an hour, and Beat up 2 of the teachers. Harrassed the deans and the head-dean of the university.They want the university to be free, to not open untill the other goverment state university opens, and the freedom to transfer to the other university even though the other uni will not accept them.
This has caused the university to close down and i might miss a whole year!!
Now every problem seems to be brought out to the public in a fight of humiliation and "cousins with ak-47"s. So the problems of the second phaase have begun.
Ride it out man. Stay strong. We all knew this type of stuff was going to happened.
You're all doing off road driving right now.
Oh shit.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/10/2011104154541907192.html
Who knows where this will go.
The mantra of the world is "Somethings Gotta Give", and everything seems to be giving in Arabia right now that can.
Daaaaaang.
I'm a little worried though. Isn't SA the country that has the backing of a lot of other countries because they have their dependence?
The black stuff? Oh yeah. The black stuff.
I have to put this down before I forget all of it. More NPR on the ground reporting:
Libya–There is a group of women who helped undermine the army's loyalty to Gadaffi by distributing DVDs of his various atrocities to the troops, risking arrest, torture and death while doing so. They now want to finally give women a chance in getting involved in Libya's politics, even stating some disappointment that the NTC doesn't have any female members.
Syria-Many soldiers, both conscripted and non-conscripted, are being forced to shoot on their own civilians. If they don't, either A) the snipers in the city will be commanded to shoot at them, B) their families will be in danger or C) both.
I feel especially sorry for those who were conscripted. I worry how things will go for them after the war, even if only a fringe group will end up hating them.
Just felt like sharing that China and Russia did veto on an proposal against Syria's government a couple of days ago. It wasn't something big, like sanctions or the like. No, they didn't even manage to get a proposal across that suggests to Syria, that killing its own population is not a nice thing to do.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15201141
Majority of UN member: Hey,Syria…uhm...killing your people is kinda... not cool. Would you please...maybe...not do it anymore??? But, I mean, only if you feel like it. No pressure...
China: Hey Russia you want some fresh organs? I get them really cheap from minorities who complain about me.
Russia: Thanks man. But I got my fill already. I get them for free from those dumb journalists that talk too much about me in public. Morons lololol
China: Yeah morons! Oh hey, you hear that? They wanna speak up against governments doing harm to their own population. Not cool...
Russia: Yeah, not cool at all...
Both: VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO VETO
Russia: Sorry comrade, Mother Russia believes the only revolution to fund is the Belarus one. And by "fund" Mother Russia means "wage economic warfare."
China: No goddamn way am I letting any of that silly "independence" shit into my citizens' minds.
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I want a Central Asia revolution so damn bad right now.
Sirte is rapidly falling right now, most of it is in NTC hands.
A day or so ago the Gaddafi troops made a desperate attempt to break out of the city, officials think they were trying to help a VIP figure escape.
Probably Mutassim, who is all but confirmed to be in the city.
So…
IN ALGERIA
-Gad's wife
-Aisha
-Mohammed
-Hannibal
IN NIGER
-Saadi
DEAD MAYBE
-Khamis
-Saif al Arab
POSSIBLY IN BANI WALID
-Saif al Islam
POSSIBLY IN SIRTE
-Mutassim
UNKNOWN
-Gaddafi
The Veto move was expected and quite frankly Stated beforehand, anyone who thought they would not Veto has his head in the clouds.
Though Al-assad isa a big problem as his "disposal" will create a big gap in the middle which the communist side of the world don't wanna see gone.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The Veto move was expected and quite frankly Stated beforehand, anyone who thought they would not Veto has his head in the clouds.
Though Al-assad isa a big problem as his "disposal" will create a big gap in the middle which the communist side of the world don't wanna see gone.
Monkey King:-
All of the "locations" of the Gaddafi family can change as fast as a snap". They are not held up anywhere in Algeria or Niger, A quick cash-in and its fake passports and away we go, and the rest it is uncertain that they are in Sirt or Bani Waleed or anywhere, from the hundreds who feld the city not one said that they spotted a Gaddafi within the city, there are too many hiding spots within Libya still unsearched, that is if he still is there
Russia has ties with Assad, and unlike the US isn't willing to sit back and let things take their course like we did with Mubarak and Ben Ali.
Both of them are probably just getting back at NATO for Libya where they were made to look foolish.
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@bartholemew:
The Veto move was expected and quite frankly Stated beforehand, anyone who thought they would not Veto has his head in the clouds.
Though Al-assad isa a big problem as his "disposal" will create a big gap in the middle which the communist side of the world don't wanna see gone.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
The Veto move was expected and quite frankly Stated beforehand, anyone who thought they would not Veto has his head in the clouds.
Though Al-assad isa a big problem as his "disposal" will create a big gap in the middle which the communist side of the world don't wanna see gone.Monkey King:-
All of the "locations" of the Gaddafi family can change as fast as a snap". They are not held up anywhere in Algeria or Niger, A quick cash-in and its fake passports and away we go, and the rest it is uncertain that they are in Sirt or Bani Waleed or anywhere, from the hundreds who feld the city not one said that they spotted a Gaddafi within the city, there are too many hiding spots within Libya still unsearched, that is if he still is there
The thing with Mutassim is the Sirte attackers picked up his voice commanding orders from within the city on a radio. So this lead is a little more solid than the rest.
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Well looks like the Syrian Opposition won't have to do better at gaining Kurdish support against Assad after all. :l
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/10/2011107172252384438.html
There is a new story everyday. I'm not trying to be negative or anything but stories like this come once a minute. Libyans are really blabby people. If you watch any of the interviews on T.V. youll see that they never shut up and will argue to the bone to get their point across. Sirt was meant to fall 1 week ago according to most people. Saif-al Islam Gaddafi was meant to be caught in Tripoli. Muhammed ESCAPED after capture in Tripoli. Picking up a radio signal won't mean jackshit. If you know about this then so does Mu3tasim.
So hey, Saleh says he'll be leaving power in the coming days.
By the way, what's the good thing about "veto" in general again? I mean other than personal advantages.
It shows who is boss on the table. EG.5 kids & 2 parents - must decide holiday. Parents hold the Veto. Guess who is gonna win?
The mother?!
Beside what if you don't want to stay with your parents anymore?
Then why are you arguing with your parents over where to go to on holiday. You go on your own, while the other 4 are stuck with the Veto decider
I need my own veto!!!!!!11!!
So hey, Saleh says he'll be leaving power in the coming days.
Eight bucks says that he's lying through his teeth.
@Cyan:
Eight bucks says that he's lying through his teeth.
Ten bucks says he'll say he has to "Stay in power until a transparent presidential election can be held, in which he will not take part" only to anounce two months in advance that he's taking part.
I don't know. Maybe he's thinking "hey, i can stay and get nearly blown up again and maybe look even more like a burned potato, or go back to that sweet ass Saudi resort".
There's ego and then there's being in charge of a rural trash heap that has almost killed you and will probably try again.
If he is actually pulling our legs he's going to get killed.
Not flee elsewhere, not stand trial, and not run around the desert hiding. Straight up murdered.
Yemen is the South Bronx of the Arab world's New York City, and somebody got to die.
MEANWHILE
http://www.tol.org/client/article/22721-kazakhstan-uzbekistan-china-liberalization.html
@Monkey:
I don't know. Maybe he's thinking "hey, i can stay and get nearly blown up again and maybe look even more like a burned potato, or go back to that sweet ass Saudi resort".
There's ego and then there's being in charge of a rural trash heap that has almost killed you and will probably try again.If he is actually pulling our legs he's going to get killed.
Not flee elsewhere, not stand trial, and not run around the desert hiding. Straight up murdered.
Yemen is the South Bronx of the Arab world's New York City, and somebody got to die.MEANWHILE
http://www.tol.org/client/article/22721-kazakhstan-uzbekistan-china-liberalization.html
I eagerly await the ten paragraphs of bullshit by which he will try to justify these actions in international organisation meetings by throwing words like "peace", "stability" and "integrity" around.
Russia: Ah, my Asian comrades. Do you believe Arab revolutions should be supported?
Turkmenistan: Let me consult the Ruhnama for a minute…
Uzbekistan: Filthy Muslims! How dare they rise up!
Tajikistan: Hey do you guys think that I can extort money from these Arabs?
Kyrgyzstan: lies in pool of corruption and poverty
Kazakhstan: My name-a Kazakhstan, and in my homeland of Kazakhstan, revolution is nice! ..........NOT!
Gotta love how pretty much every country in opposition to all this are all varying levels of dictatorships and corruption.
@Cyan:
Russia: Ah, my Asian comrades. Do you believe Arab revolutions should be supported?
Turkmenistan: Let me consult the Ruhnama for a minute...
Uzbekistan: Filthy Muslims! How dare they rise up!
Tajikistan: Hey do you guys think that I can extort money from these Arabs?
Kyrgyzstan: lies in pool of corruption and poverty
Kazakhstan: My name-a Kazakhstan, and in my homeland of Kazakhstan, revolution is nice! ….......NOT!Gotta love how pretty much every country in opposition to all this are all varying levels of dictatorships and corruption.
Sadly this is no longer the case :sad:
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@Cyan:
Russia: Ah, my Asian comrades. Do you believe Arab revolutions should be supported?
Turkmenistan: Let me consult the Ruhnama for a minute…
Uzbekistan: Filthy Muslims! How dare they rise up!
Tajikistan: Hey do you guys think that I can extort money from these Arabs?
Kyrgyzstan: lies in pool of corruption and poverty
Kazakhstan: My name-a Kazakhstan, and in my homeland of Kazakhstan, revolution is nice! ..........NOT!Gotta love how pretty much every country in opposition to all this are all varying levels of dictatorships and corruption.
Most of which just seem to continue their one party dictatorship under the former communist party with a different name.
@No:
I eagerly await the ten paragraphs of bullshit by which he will try to justify these actions in international organisation meetings by throwing words like "peace", "stability" and "integrity" around.
Does it kind of chill you to think that an earlier version of these goons used to have a chain around the neck of your country too?
@Monkey:
Does it kind of chill you to think that an earlier version of these goons used to have a chain around the neck of your country too?
I'm still baffled how Putin could even be elected president if he was an active officer of the KGB.
It just…..blows my mind.
The fun thing is that he probably wouldn't have been elected in the first place if Jeltsin and the party hadn't meddled in the elections. Almost a half of the people wanted communists back in power but they got Putin instead. Must have been quite disappointing.
But of course they're content now. Russia has taken back its position as a major power (at least to some extent), and who cares about poverty and non-existent freedom or rights as long as Russia remains fearsome in the eyes of its neighbors..
@No:
I'm still baffled how Putin could even be elected president if he was an active officer of the KGB.
It just…..blows my mind.
Hey No Maam. I've actually always wondered what life in the Czech Republic is like. Since Eastern Europe has never exactly been known as the most stable region on Earth, I wondered what it would be like to live in one of the nations. Although I suppose the C.R. is a bit more of a Central European nation (it's pretty close to Germany). From what I've heard it's one of the most developed and peaceful nations in the region, but I'd like to know from someone who actually lives there.
Sorry if a bit OT.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
But of course they're content now. Russia has taken back its position as a major power (at least to some extent), and who cares about poverty and non-existent freedom or rights as long as Russia remains fearsome in the eyes of its neighbors..
Sadly Russia is by no means the only government with that kind of policy. It's a very similar situation with China. And much of the Middle East.
@Kareem:
Hey No Maam. I've actually always wondered what life in the Czech Republic is like. Since Eastern Europe has never exactly been known as the most stable region on Earth, I wondered what it would be like to live in one of the nations. Although I suppose the C.R. is a bit more of a Central European nation (it's pretty close to Germany). From what I've heard it's one of the most developed and peaceful nations in the region, but I'd like to know from someone who actually lives there.
Sorry if a bit OT.
Well….it's a pretty normal place actualy. We never had a coup, our participation in american counter terrorist operations is so underplayed that a US Presidential candidate doesn't even know Czechoslovakia hasn't existed for years, and......I really don't know what to tell you.
It's just.....normal.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/09/us-egypt-copts-clashes-idUSTRE7981Q220111009
Well that ain't good.
@Cuddles:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/09/us-egypt-copts-clashes-idUSTRE7981Q220111009
Well that ain't good.
Actually that's pretty good. They're worried about the issue.
If this happened under Mubarak they'd probably just laugh at people freaking out about 24 deaths from a small protest.
"SHOUDNTA BEEN PROTESTIN HOLMES"
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@Kareem:
Hey No Maam. I've actually always wondered what life in the Czech Republic is like. Since Eastern Europe has never exactly been known as the most stable region on Earth, I wondered what it would be like to live in one of the nations. Although I suppose the C.R. is a bit more of a Central European nation (it's pretty close to Germany). From what I've heard it's one of the most developed and peaceful nations in the region, but I'd like to know from someone who actually lives there.
Eastern Europe has an unfair rep really. It's mostly pumped up and made fun of for sucking so much because it's an easy target in the US because we don't have to feel sorta racist in doing it. But of course it's still cruel and prejudice.
Western/Eastern Europe is really just plain fine. The Czech Republic and Slovenia are virtually identical to a hop across the border to Italy and Germany. Yeah, Slovenia the former Yugoslav republic.
Poland, Hungary, Croatia, and Slovakia are pretty good. No problems really (alright Croatia has some huge skeletons in it's closet but..).
Romania, Bulgaria, the Baltics, Montenegro, Macedonia….varying degrees of slighty less good. Poverty still has a place in some of them, namely their huge gypsy populations.
All of those places are stable. As peaceful as where you live. Really no issues that aren't economic. Macedonia had an Albanian insurgency less than ten years ago but that's about it.
Those countries don't really deserve the "WHOA CRAZY EASTERN EUROPE MAN" stereotypes.
Serbia...Bosnia...Kosovo...the triumvurate of countries who don't get to sleep at night without 90's nightmares. They're....stableish. Most of Serbia anyway. Bosnia enjoys the fortune of still being divided ethnically, something that only time can heal really.
Kosovo is......not unstable....but not stable. There are border clashes occasionally with you know who.
Serbia is doing a good job right now. They aren't sacrificing their famous pride, but they are catching the monsters from the 90's and doing their part at making up for what some of them and their Bosnian allies did. Two big rats this year.
Their current president seems like a very good man to me. I think that Former Yugoslavia will remain peaceful.
Albania is meh.
Russia!!!! Who knows! Their democracy isn't really...real yet. Maybe they'll work it out peacefully. Or maybe something will pop. Who knows.
And the Causcasus mountains....well....it's anyones game there.
Ukraine is sllllllloooooowwwwlllllyyyyy catching up with the rest of Europe. Their economy is a whole league below the rest of the continent.
Moldova is just........well you know all the stereotypes you have about Eastern Europe? Well in Moldova it's all actually true.
Again, it is literally better to live in Botswana than Moldova (Unless you enjoy having unprotected sex with untested strangers).
And that other place... has no problems, no dictatorship at all, lots of electiosn and a cool economy not based off russian donations at all that is NOT plummiting down the gutter into freefall and any of that bad stuff.
@Monkey:
Eastern Europe has an unfair rep really. It's mostly pumped up and made fun of for sucking so much because it's an easy target in the US because we don't have to feel sorta racist in doing it. But of course it's still cruel and prejudice.
Western/Eastern Europe is really just plain fine. The Czech Republic and Slovenia are virtually identical to a hop across the border to Italy and Germany. Yeah, Slovenia the former Yugoslav republic.
Poland, Hungary, Croatia, and Slovakia are pretty good. No problems really (alright Croatia has some huge skeletons in it's closet but..).
Romania, Bulgaria, the Baltics, Montenegro, Macedonia….varying degrees of slighty less good. Poverty still has a place in some of them, namely their huge gypsy populations.
All of those places are stable. As peaceful as where you live. Really no issues that aren't economic. Macedonia had an Albanian insurgency less than ten years ago but that's about it.
Those countries don't really deserve the "WHOA CRAZY EASTERN EUROPE MAN" stereotypes.
Serbia...Bosnia...Kosovo...the triumvurate of countries who don't get to sleep at night without 90's nightmares. They're....stableish. Most of Serbia anyway. Bosnia enjoys the fortune of still being divided ethnically, something that only time can heal really.
Kosovo is......not unstable....but not stable. There are border clashes occasionally with you know who.
Serbia is doing a good job right now. They aren't sacrificing their famous pride, but they are catching the monsters from the 90's and doing their part at making up for what some of them and their Bosnian allies did. Two big rats this year.
Their current president seems like a very good man to me. I think that Former Yugoslavia will remain peaceful.Albania is meh.
Russia!!!! Who knows! Their democracy isn't really...real yet. Maybe they'll work it out peacefully. Or maybe something will pop. Who knows.
And the Causcasus mountains....well....it's anyones game there.Ukraine is sllllllloooooowwwwlllllyyyyy catching up with the rest of Europe. Their economy is a whole league below the rest of the continent.
Moldova is just........well you know all the stereotypes you have about Eastern Europe? Well in Moldova it's all actually true.
Again, it is literally better to live in Botswana than Moldova (Unless you enjoy having unprotected sex with untested strangers).And that other place... has no problems, no dictatorship at all, lots of electiosn and a cool economy not based off russian donations at all that is NOT plummiting down the gutter into freefall and any of that bad stuff.
Ah. Well that's all very enlightening then. Good for the people of Eastern Europe that their region isn't nearly as bad as usually stereotyped. I'm happy for them.
Although there is something that I wanted to ask your opinion on since you're very knowledgeable and I hoped you could enlighten me. I don't believe in discrimination. I just don't think it's good policy and I believe that everyone should be treated equally regardless of whatever differences evolution has caused for us. There're plenty of other people who don't feel that way though. The white supremacists like David Duke and Jared Taylor and their ilk are constantly saying "The European race is superior! They've forged mighty stable nations with their superior genetics, while the nations of inferior African, Asian, Arab and Hispanic races are in shambles because of their inferior genetics!"
Obviously I don't agree with them, but it's basically true that nations with European majorities make up most of the stable and well developed countries of the world. While nations with African, Asian, Middle Eastern or Hispanic majorities are more likely to be impoverished and violent. (Although those last two "races" I mentioned aren't really races, especially the last one, but I think you know what I mean. The white supremacists certainly think that Latin America consists entirely of brown skinned, black haired people when really Latin Americans come in many lighter and darker shades.)
What I'm basically asking you is: Why do you think European nations have generally been able to thrive much better than non-European nations? One of the most reasonable theories I've heard is that regions like Africa simply don't lend themselves well to industrialization because of various environmental factors such as all the deserts in Africa (and the Middle East for that matter) and the rivers in Africa are hard to navigate. And of course the long history of European colonization in many of these regions probably wasn't very helpful for development, something White Nationalists tend to ignore whenever they're spouting their racist dogma.
I was just wondering if you could provide me with knowledge on the subject since you're obviously way more educated on the matter. Don't want to bother you I'm just eager to know, since I'm sure there are many other factors at play when it comes to "Race and Developmental Inequality" than simply just genetics. Much appreciated.
Kareem Said.
I would like to point out that at one point or another the European countries were invading every piece of land they found, and enslaving their people. At one point it was all of the known world.
Libya for example has never been a free country, greeks then the romans then some islamic rule, afterwards Italy.
Europe has only been premier in like the past three hundred or so years. And more Western/Northern Europe than anything…..and again that excludes Ireland and Iberia and southern Italy...and the Saami.....and ..get the picture about how much more complex this all is?
I mean let's say for a minute we take the sort of "achievement" based judgement of "racial" superiority that white supremacists take. Yeah right now sure.
But let's ...I dunno factor in all of human history.
Who's the fairest in the land?
China. No fucking question about it. China.
I'm not actually saying China is BEST of course (New England actually is), but their own logic doesn't even make sense.
Frankly the only reason David Duke and company can even talk is largely because the Chinese culturally just sort of assumed that China was all that mattered and had like no interest at all in exploration and colonization beyond it's immediate borders. All that good imperialist stuff that pumped up Western Europe's economies throughout the Early Modern period right up into the two world wars.
And they COULD have. They had better boats at an earlier period, there were even long distance trading expiditions made by a few Chinese. But the later dynasties, Ming, Qing etc just didn't get it.
"Bro we're like the middle kingdom? Like we're the center of the world or something? And people come to us to learn not to suck? Why leave for anything?"
That's the historical Chinese mentality. And until Europeans started buzzing around in boats that was their relationship with all their neighbors so their feeling was constantly validated.
Also them niggas have been having like civilization since like Ancient Egypt and shit. And it's basically been continuous since. Yes. Including the invader regimes of the Yuan and Qing, who ...while outsiders.... were almost entirely basing their legitamacy around becoming the new rulers of China, not creating a new Mongol or Manchu state over the conquered Chinese. "yeah well WERE china now". If you get my drift.
Imagine the British taking over Ireland and declaring themselves the new Irish regime lol.
As for the rest of the world, complex shit over complex eras and times has varied everything and everything. Arabia used to be the premier (alongside China). Why do you think they're so proud over there? Islam? lol. Naw, they used to be the best. So they're real not happy about being pawns and middlemen between the West, Jews, Persians, and Turks. Nationalism! That's the true beating heart behind modern Arabia, no matter how much religion it wants to dress itself up in.
India too has been pretty swanky. And yea lol, actually the darker skinned, and untouched by Aryan invasion southern Indians have had some of the biggest and best Indian civilizations (Chola ftw), and even today actually the nicest part of India is the south, the Dravidian lands. Not the northern lands where the Aryan culture spread, that white racist dudes like to think of as being...white influenced when not really aside from maybe language (probably already transferred a long way from home.
I mean hell I dunno, HYPOTHETICALLY.....let's take some white people....who like ran around forever on horses in Central Asia and like maybe they go into what is now Afghanistan with their wierd languages and lots of people get beat up and talk like them or whatever. And some of those white people settle into a mountain valley or twenty, but their aren't very many of them? So like over time genetically they kind of just get swallowed up by swarthier people except for the occasional red beard. But like neo-nazis don't count that, that's destroying WHITE GENES or whatever. So of course fuck those race mixers. Instead like HYPOTHETICALLY a few brave arayan supermen don't end up mixing because like they're isolated in some valleys or some shit way up in the mountains, so they keep to themselves.
And of like course in this HYPOTHETICAL situation like of course what would happened in those valleys?
Man like by now I'm sure they took advantage of their magical European genes to have industrial revolutions all of a sudden, and secular philosophical things like the Englightenment, and democracy and lots of it, and also lots of really cool art like Mozarts and Leonardo da Vincis that darkys never have. It would totally work that way in this HYPOTHETICAL situation right?
Wait? Say what? This is a real scenario?
Sweet! Let's see them gleaming skyscrapers!
WHITE POWER, WHITE POWER, WHITE POWER, WHITE POW- Ah….eh....uh.......um.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@bartholemew:
Kareem Said.
I would like to point out that at one point or another the European countries were invading every piece of land they found, and enslaving their people. At one point it was all of the known world.
Libya for example has never been a free country, greeks then the romans then some islamic rule, afterwards Italy.
do
doo doooo dooo dooo im arabia doo dooooo, im not white and dduuuummmb.
cmon biatchh, what the fuck you done to top the motherfucking Udmurts??? you done whaaat??? nothing son, word up.
look at dis fucking white supremacy over yer assss, ahh yeeeah boooy.
what you done??? you arabs? huh?
i bet you aint lived in the forest and worshipped forgotten pagan gods for all of history until russians and soviets moved you around and killed you and treated you like a crazy tribe is what you have not done ever
because your just not white enough to get it on with this high living shit.
yall dont step in a race war, you got your mad max jeeps and organized states with armies and planes and stuff, bitch what you gonna do when the udmurts and they nasty ass crew step?
You forgot about the poor Africans, the most shat on and mocked of all races by the white supremacists. Quick question, were the Ancient Egyptians black? Because if nothing else I know that the white nationalists consider them and India to be the only "Great Civilizations that weren't White." (Who forgot China?) I do know that there were plenty of African civilizations if nothing else, although the only one that I can think of that was particularly notable as far as development and accomplishments go was the Mali civilization with Mansa Musa and Timbuktu.
And white supremacists also tend to look at how many of America's most violent cities are the ones with high black populations and the large amount of black men in jail and blame the high population of African and Latino Americans as the main reason for the U.S. having the highest crime rates of any developed nations. I would imagine that has to do with the fact that African Americans weren't given good jobs or schools so they became poor as hell and crime became rampant in their areas.
Fun Fact: The supremacists often talk about how blacks need to be taken out of the U.S. because "Theyre a danger to good hardworkin whites! Why doya think so many of em are locked up!" Yet statistically most crimes committed by African Americans are committed towards other African Americans and the same is true of most other racial and ethnic groups in the U.S.
Sorry for rambling and kind of derailing this thread, I should probably stop soon, I just wanted to hear your word on the "issue". The point is racial supremacists (of any kind) hate logic. It is their archnemesis.
@Monkey:
Poland, Hungary, Croatia, and Slovakia are pretty good. No problems really (alright Croatia has some huge skeletons in it's closet but..).
Jobbik, Fidesz, a big poor Gypsy population, social unrest, censorship.. Seems to me that the country has been going downhill lately, unless it has taken a turn for the better since I last followed the situation there. Hungary's doing relatively well at the moment, but things could get much much worse quickly if the populist parties continue to do whatever they want to.
Also @Kareem: white supremacists are the same everywhere. They come up with bullshit reasons to justify their own thoughts and actions and they should be ignored. You could say it's their religion to hate black and/or other people that are not of the purest white kind. It's nearly impossible to argue with one because they don't get any logic, as you said yourself.
And if you're really interested in why Eurasian peoples have thrived throughout the history at the expense of others, you could read Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel. It's a good book that gives you the big picture of the evolution of human societies and tries to explain why, for example, Europeans have done so well. Kind of History for beginners that everybody who's interested in the facts should read. It keeps to the basics and it's scope is a bit narrow, but it opened my eyes and made me understand a lot.
Definitely worth reading. Ain't it so, Zephos?
@Kareem:
You forgot about the poor Africans, the most shat on and mocked of all races by the white supremacists.
Hey I mentioned Ethiopia.
Quick question, were the Ancient Egyptians black?
Probably no, probably they were varied and mostly just looked like Bar Kum does or Tigerlilly. Though some of them may have been since there was a little more easy travel from down under back than.
Because if nothing else I know that the white nationalists consider them and India to be the only "Great Civilizations that weren't White."
lol, what about China, Arab Caliphates, Ottomans (wait most Turkslook basically a lot like Greeks, and many of them used to be pre-seljuqs but doo doo doo let's ignore that cuz were skinheads). And the Mongols?? Japan? Siam? PERSIA.
Anyway who cares what they think. They're history illiterate and absolutely obese with psuedo sceience and psuedo history.
I do know that there were plenty of African civilizations if nothing else, although the only one that I can think of that was particularly notable as far as development and accomplishments go was the Mali civilization with Mansa Musa and Timbuktu.
Nubia and particularly the Horn of Africa are important.
Shit, Ethiopia had more civilization than Germanic Europe (the best Europe according to skinheads) did for eons. Until the Germans suckled enough on Rome's demilitarized tit to settle down and copy their structures.
And the Mali Empire was only ONE of a whole bunch of Sahel empires. See also Songhai, Ghana, Kanem-Bornu.
And white supremacists also tend to look at how many of America's most violent cities are the ones with high black populations and the large amount of black men in jail and blame the high population of African and Latino Americans as the main reason for the U.S. having the highest crime rates of any developed nations.
Yeah I wonder why poverty stricken marginalized minorities resort to crime. Strange.
I would imagine that has to do with the fact that African Americans weren't given good jobs or schools so they became poor as hell and crime became rampant in their areas.
Of course that's why.
Best educated demographic in US. African immigrants btw, neat factoid.
No, believe it or not, it's not Serbian plumbers.
Fun Fact: The supremacists often talk about how blacks need to be taken out of the U.S. because "Theyre a danger to good hardworkin whites! Why doya think so many of em are locked up!" Yet statistically most crimes committed by African Americans are committed towards other African Americans and the same is true of most other racial and ethnic groups in the U.S.
It's the norm throughout history for this trend in poverty. Hell I've actually been mugged by some ghetto kids, can't even begin to wrap my head around the way these skinhead types think.
Sorry for rambling and kind of derailing this thread, I should probably stop soon, I just wanted to hear your word on the "issue". The point is racial supremacists (of any kind) hate logic. It is their archnemesis.
I remember when I first started wandering into Stormfront threads out of morbid curiousity. And being depressed because they seemed to have all these huge deep facts and bottomless knowledge on ethnogprahy and stuff.
Than like six years later here I am with all my personaly history/anthropology knowledge, and I once checked back in on them and HOLY SHIT they looked like such amazing amateurs and utter clowns now that I actually knew what I was talking about.
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Jobbik, Fidesz, a big poor Gypsy population, social unrest, censorship.. Seems to me that the country has been going downhill lately, unless it has taken a turn for the better since I last followed the situation there. Hungary's doing relatively well at the moment, but things could get much much worse quickly if the populist parties continue to do whatever they want to.
Also @Kareem: white supremacists are the same everywhere. They come up with bullshit reasons to justify their own thoughts and actions and they should be ignored. You could say it's their religion to hate black and/or other people that are not of the purest white kind. It's nearly impossible to argue with one because they don't get any logic, as you said yourself.
And if you're really interested in why Eurasian peoples have thrived throughout the history at the expense of others, you could read Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel. It's a good book that gives you the big picture of the evolution of human societies and tries to explain why, for example, Europeans have done so well. Kind of History for beginners that everybody who's interested in the facts should read. It keeps to the basics and it's scope is a bit narrow, but it opened my eyes and made me understand a lot.
Definitely worth reading. Ain't it so, Zephos?
How do Hungarian white supremacists deal with the fact that they speak the language and have the ethnic name of a locally genetically extinct Eurasiatic horse people who subjugated their ancestors a little over a thousand years ago enforcing their culture and tongue on the Pannonian basin, unlike all their more clearly European neighbors?
Also on a scale of one to ten how mad are they when linguists point out that the other ethnic groups who speak close relatives (rather than distant relatives like Finnish) of Hungarian are Khanty and Mansi.
The unhappiest white supremacists in the world. :(
@Monkey:
Actually that's pretty good. They're worried about the issue.
If this happened under Mubarak they'd probably just laugh at people freaking out about 24 deaths from a small protest.
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Eastern Europe has an unfair rep really. It's mostly pumped up and made fun of for sucking so much because it's an easy target in the US because we don't have to feel sorta racist in doing it. But of course it's still cruel and prejudice.
Western/Eastern Europe is really just plain fine. The Czech Republic and Slovenia are virtually identical to a hop across the border to Italy and Germany. Yeah, Slovenia the former Yugoslav republic.
Poland, Hungary, Croatia, and Slovakia are pretty good. No problems really (alright Croatia has some huge skeletons in it's closet but..).
Romania, Bulgaria, the Baltics, Montenegro, Macedonia....varying degrees of slighty less good. Poverty still has a place in some of them, namely their huge gypsy populations.
All of those places are stable. As peaceful as where you live. Really no issues that aren't economic. Macedonia had an Albanian insurgency less than ten years ago but that's about it.
Those countries don't really deserve the "WHOA CRAZY EASTERN EUROPE MAN" stereotypes.
Serbia...Bosnia...Kosovo...the triumvurate of countries who don't get to sleep at night without 90's nightmares. They're....stableish. Most of Serbia anyway. Bosnia enjoys the fortune of still being divided ethnically, something that only time can heal really.
Kosovo is......not unstable....but not stable. There are border clashes occasionally with you know who.
Serbia is doing a good job right now. They aren't sacrificing their famous pride, but they are catching the monsters from the 90's and doing their part at making up for what some of them and their Bosnian allies did. Two big rats this year.
Their current president seems like a very good man to me. I think that Former Yugoslavia will remain peaceful.Albania is meh.
Russia!!!! Who knows! Their democracy isn't really...real yet. Maybe they'll work it out peacefully. Or maybe something will pop. Who knows.
And the Causcasus mountains....well....it's anyones game there.Ukraine is sllllllloooooowwwwlllllyyyyy catching up with the rest of Europe. Their economy is a whole league below the rest of the continent.
Moldova is just........well you know all the stereotypes you have about Eastern Europe? Well in Moldova it's all actually true.
Again, it is literally better to live in Botswana than Moldova (Unless you enjoy having unprotected sex with untested strangers).And that other place... has no problems, no dictatorship at all, lots of electiosn and a cool economy not based off russian donations at all that is NOT plummiting down the gutter into freefall and any of that bad stuff.
Oh Zeph, you forgot Belarus :P
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@Monkey:
Hey I mentioned Ethiopia.
Probably no, probably they were varied and mostly just looked like Bar Kum does or Tigerlilly. Though some of them may have been since there was a little more easy travel from down under back than.
Well the 25th Dynasty was comprised of black pharaohs.
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@Monkey:
WHITE POWER, WHITE POWER, WHITE POWER, WHITE POW- Ah….eh....uh.......um.
I actualy really like the landscape and the arrangement, it just looks pleasing, at least from the angle they were shooting at.
That dynasty wasn't native Egyptian. It was the period when the Nubian kingdom from below actually conquered Egypt and took the throne for themselves.
It's worth noting though that the Nubians themselves had earlier fallen under the Egyptian sphere of influence and adopted much of their culture and stuff. And over the years as Egyptian culture got lazy and sorta ignored up in Egypt, the Nubians were actually going strong with it, so were in a sense more culturally Egyptian than the actual Egyptians. And eventually they were militarily too, and captured Cairo and ruled for awhile.
@Monkey:
Serbia…Bosnia...Kosovo...the triumvurate of countries who don't get to sleep at night without 90's nightmares. They're....stableish. Most of Serbia anyway. Bosnia enjoys the fortune of still being divided ethnically, something that only time can heal really.
Kosovo is......not unstable....but not stable. There are border clashes occasionally with you know who.
Serbia is doing a good job right now. They aren't sacrificing their famous pride, but they are catching the monsters from the 90's and doing their part at making up for what some of them and their Bosnian allies did. Two big rats this year.
Their current president seems like a very good man to me. I think that Former Yugoslavia will remain peaceful.
Well, I only talk about my own experience here, but while the situation is "stable" now, the hearts of the people living there still haven't healed. I spent around 2 months every year in parts of bosnia and serbia, and people in bosnia really aren't doing well. While they don't have really serious fights anymore between the Federation of Bosnia & Herzegovina and Republika Srpska, the economic situation is still pretty awful. I often get this from my family members living there, but without some kind of system with them helping each each other (and us), they wouldn't be able to survive with their usual salary. My cousin who works in Banja Luka earns around a 100 euro a month as a bus driver, while shit there really isn't cheaper than some stuff in Switzerland here, and this country is known for being expensive as fuck. Ignoring other issues like cops being crooked as fuck, high unemployed rate, etc.
And while people there don't really hate each other as badly as they did in the 90's, there is still enough resentment and mistrust left. People there don't try to live together, they are just basically trying to stay seperated, only surrounded by their own in the big cities.
And Kosovo…I think its pretty awful to be honest. Corruption and Organized Crime are widespread, Kosovo has become the new stronghold of heroine trade while organ trafficking has been as strong as it never was, even suspecting some of the politicians of the newly founded republic of Kosovo to be involved in this, already showing how much corruption has spread in this new government.
Sorry, but the EU and UN really fucked up on this one.
Returning the thread back on track (planning on replying to Zeph's post later): http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/10/2011101220343791605.html
They apparently caught and arrested Mutassim in Sirte. I hope this is not just another groundless rumour.
Well, I only talk about my own experience here, but while the situation is "stable" now, the hearts of the people living there still haven't healed. I spent around 2 months every year in parts of bosnia and serbia, and people in bosnia really aren't doing well. While they don't have really serious fights anymore between the Federation of Bosnia & Herzegovina and Republika Srpska, the economic situation is still pretty awful. I often get this from my family members living there, but without some kind of system with them helping each each other (and us), they wouldn't be able to survive with their usual salary. My cousin who works in Banja Luka earns around a 100 euro a month as a bus driver, while shit there really isn't cheaper than some stuff in Switzerland here, and this country is known for being expensive as fuck. Ignoring other issues like cops being crooked as fuck, high unemployed rate, etc.
And while people there don't really hate each other as badly as they did in the 90's, there is still enough resentment and mistrust left. People there don't try to live together, they are just basically trying to stay seperated, only surrounded by their own in the big cities.
And Kosovo…I think its pretty awful to be honest. Corruption and Organized Crime are widespread, Kosovo has become the new stronghold of heroine trade while organ trafficking has been as strong as it never was, even suspecting some of the politicians of the newly founded republic of Kosovo to be involved in this, already showing how much corruption has spread in this new government.
Sorry, but the EU and UN really fucked up on this one.
Fucked up? I'm not sure you realize what was avoided with Kosovo being allowed to remove itself from Serbia.
Returning the thread back on track (planning on replying to Zeph's post later): http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/10/2011101220343791605.html
They apparently caught and arrested Mutassim in Sirte. I hope this is not just another groundless rumour.
It is. A guy who heard from another guy who told that other guy that he heard another guy tell another guy that he heard the first guy tell the other guy how he heard something about Mutassim maybe being caught.
All those guys denied it thought.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/17/world/africa/libya-war/index.html?hpt=hp_c1 Sirte belongs to the Republic.
Or their in the process of taking it. It's not really made clear here.
Will be true, this time? Or another fake claim?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/10/20/uk-libya-gaddafi-idUKTRE79J2HY20111020
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/20/world/africa/libya-war/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 They may finally have him.