I pretty much agree with everything, Alpha Male has said. Up until now this is one of me favorite arcs. I hope/believe that all the things that are missing at this point(map, strong enemy etc) are things that are going to be revealed later, because it will tie everything together after we've seen what the flashback has to tell. Fx finding a blood donor for Sanji, can be shown in a mini-flashback, after we've seen that it was impossible to find a donor for Fisher. As for the big enemy, I think that he might be revealed in the flashback somehow, and he is probably going to be at mariejoa.
Storytelling in One Piece
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Some things may have changed in the storytelling but I've personally enjoyed Fishman Island as much as all the previous arcs so I don't think the quality has dropped because of that. I don't also really care how long this arc will eventually take as long as it'll end as a great story, length shouldn't be an intrinsic value after all. That said I believe that there's still a lot yet to come though, maybe Mariejoa, maybe something else but overall it's probably too early to judge the arc and its storytelling yet.
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Oda is the master of hyping the shit out of you because I am dying of impatience to see Zoro's growth.
That's my case too, Zoro, Luffy's badass moment, Crocodile and Sanji are the real shit.
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That Oda hasn
t given us so far a map for the island is just for now a point we may see as a little annoyance. Afterall the story is supposed to be seen in the whole context and in the end we will sure get a map soon enough. When you read it volumne by volumne, you may dont think that the map would be necessary already.
Right now we can create our own image of the whole island, but soon enough Oda will give us more specific information.It
s the plessure\and the curse of us weekly chapter-readers, that we just see the whole story coming in piece by piece and so we have the chance to predict a lot of stuff, but we also may sometimes dont see the whole picture Oda is leading us to.
I myself would also like to have a good map right now, just because iam damn curious, but in the end i am sure Oda will show it to us soon enough, so that when you read the story volumne by volumne, it will be more than okay to get it "that" late. -
Hmm, the points about Mariejois are pretty interesting. With the crew moving into the Forest of the Sea, that leaves Fishman Island unguarded. Hmmm…
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Come on, it's obvious as hell that the second part of this huge arc will happen at Mariejoa. The princess, Caribou, VDD, Straw hats moving to the sea forest, all is setting up to get into the city.
Anyone who thinks is plain dumb as a stump.
Oda is not fucking dealing the Mariejois card halfway through the series.This is like saying "COME ONE GUYS ITS OBVIOUS WELL SEE SHANKS, KAIDOU, BIG MOM, ALL THE NEW SHICHIBUKAIS, AND THE ONE PIECE SOON".
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Fukaboshi could be the one who starts getting things in order once all the different groups are brought together. At that point I figure is when we'll start getting the maps and other such things in order for us readers to start getting the layout of Fishman Island.
Though Jinbe could also do that, depending on whether he accompanies Luffy and co. back to Fishman Island after getting their bearing in the Sea Forest and Robin's little hunt for the poneglyph. Doesn't seem to unfeasible.
@RobbyBevard:
Shabondy served that role. They one shotted pacifistas, where before it took the entire crew to barely defeat one and htey were all exhausted afterward.
And here, having even Usopp and Nami takes on 10x stronger than normal humans fishman shows their growth and bravery, that shows their growth just fine. It IS okay for them to be stronger than 99% of the guys around them, but the big bosses of the arc… should be able to challenge them. The extreme exceptions.
Actually there doesn't really need to be anyone else despite both Zoro and Sanji's showings in the water. That's why the E.S. pills were introduced, to give the crew some semblance of trouble no matter how small since it is way too early for the Straw Hats to genuinely struggle, especially Luffy and the two aforementioned. Have Hodi, Decken and maybe Hyouzu(sp?) along with both their respective crews stuff themselves and it'll definitely cause some problems.
So I'm guessing the antagonists in this arc are probably going to play out similarly to the Foxy Pirates. In that while under normal circumstances they really had no chance, factors are gonna be keep being thrown in their favor till it gives the image of somewhat equal standing even when there really isn't.
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I could see the "real" threat of this arc being either MJ or Big Mam. I actually totally forgot that Mam would probably get her ass in gear and head over if FI was destroyed. If Luffy has a justifiable reason behind the destruction, it could be interesting.
But yeah there's not a lot of threat in terms of enemy, it's all environment.
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But yeah there's not a lot of threat in terms of enemy, it's all environment.
Thats what I like the most about this arc. Instead of having to dread the coming of one big bastard, we have numerous smaller problems happening all at once. And to top it all off their is no easy way out of the island since the crew is tens of thousands of feet under the ocean. It's a very tense experience.
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Some threads are a pleasure to read threw….and this is one of those. I like the premise of Oda's storytelling evolution but somehow this thread became 'Do you like Fishman Island so far? Really? Even the pacing?' Regardless this is a very interesting read. I am a little disturbed by the lack of faith in Oda - when FI is done in a few years we will look back on it as yet another One Piece master arc. However I do agree that the pacing feels more Thriller Bark then Skyipea and that is a touch worrisome...still my trust in Oda is deep.
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I find your lack of faith in Oda most disturbing.
In due time, friends, all shall be revealed. We're in this for the loooooooong haul
There are a few things that were annoying (overplaying the Sanji gag), but I love this arc so far. I think it might even be more complex than W7, and everybody here knows how much of a hook that saga was. I'm crossing my fingers for a W7-length extravaganza here
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For the past couple of weeks, I've been taking note of individual comments made through the forums, as well as twitter, youtube and via discussions with friends that, despite the two years worth of build-up for this arc, the delivery hasn't been as strong as many would have liked. Therefore, via the 'One Piece at a Time' blog, I offered and wrote an essay discussing the weaker aspects of the current arc, which can you view via the link below. Be warned though, there are spoilers if you have not reached this material in its printed form yet.
http://www.onepieceatatimeblog.com/2011/06/manga-state-of-series-worth-wait.html
Now, since this is my opinion I'm putting out, I expect some of you to disagree with me 100% percent and you are 100% entitled to do so. In fact, I would rather see people give their own detailed input on the situation (such as M. Darius Reno did via the blog) since I think, just like the amazon Japan reviews, opinions of this arc have been vastly different depending on the individual reader experience. Even so, I would like to see if you can answer the question I posed. Are you willing to admit the series is suffering from pacing, story and execution issues or rather say that everything is dandy the way it is?
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The complaint about their personalities not changing was always a stupid one. They don't change over the first 60 books, why is it a let down for them not to change off screen now?
Your complains were weak on the whole, all the "op doesn't behave like normal shonen!!!" is total crap. One Piece is extremely typical shonen, it's the Ramones of shonen. It executes it on a perfect level. There's always been lots of powerups, there's always been lots of fighting.
The flashback complaints are terrible crap, new characters in the flashback? We "don't know them"? That's the same argument people lug at the Norland flashback. That's NOT why the flashback has been weak whatsoever.
I have had lots of issues with the current arc and flashback, none of them you mentioned.
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Also we aren't in the New World yet so why are you even acting like this has anything to do with that.
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@Monkey:
The complaint about their personalities not changing was always a stupid one. They don't change over the first 60 books, why is it a let down for them not to change off screen now?
Your complains were weak on the whole, all the "op doesn't behave like normal shonen!!!" is total crap. One Piece is extremely typical shonen, it's the Ramones of shonen. It executes it on a perfect level. There's always been lots of powerups, there's always been lots of fighting.
The flashback complaints are terrible crap, new characters in the flashback? We "don't know them"? That's the same argument people lug at the Norland flashback. That's NOT why the flashback has been weak whatsoever.
I have had lots of issues with the current arc and flashback, none of them you mentioned.
Actually, there have been some fundamental changes made to the characters but since Oda wrote them well, few were picked up upon in detail until fans pointed them out, such as Robin calling the crew by their names as opposed to their position titles. What annoyed me more to be honest was not HUGE GIANT CHANGES but the changes that DID take place felt very materialistic thus having little effect on me. I don't want them to turn into the Sasuke pirates but is asking for realistic development an inane concept? People change a lot during their teens.
While there has been power-ups, power-ups didn't start coming into the spotlight UNTIL Enies Lobby. It didn't detract from the series itself until Impel Down in my opinion but since this is about the New World, thought it was important to mention. Another issue I have with them is that, once established, author's tend to rely on them. I mean, almost every battle since Enies Lobby has involved Gear Second and it's kind of tiring to be blunt.
My main issue with the flashback wasn't knowing the characters, it was the placement and pacing. As I said, it was placed between the fight, the fight proper fight we've seen from the crew since Thriller Bark and it was annoying to see that stopped. I should note the fan favourite one of Chopper's did the exact same thing and that was changed in the anime because it was an awkward place to put it. Well that and it just wouldn't work as well in a stand alone television series.
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@Monkey:
Also we aren't in the New World yet so why are you even acting like this has anything to do with that.
NEW WORLD is what the title will be called once volume 61 hits America. It also took up less space than FISHMAN ISLAND so it was easier to use. It fit better was all.
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While there has been power-ups, power-ups didn't start coming into the spotlight UNTIL Enies Lobby. It didn't detract from the series itself until Impel Down in my opinion but since this is about the New World, thought it was important to mention. Another issue I have with them is that, once established, author's tend to rely on them. I mean, almost every battle since Enies Lobby has involved Gear Second and it's kind of tiring to be blunt.
Sorry for ignoring the rest of the post, but I only wanted to throw in my opinion on this one - while you are right that Gear Second has been used in pretty much every battle since it has been introduced, it is not exactly the same concept as a normal, standard "power-up". Most of these would be one time power ups, such as Nightmare Luffy (still can't get over it), and while Gear Second DOES power up all of Luffy's abilities, it is still pretty much the same development as in the beginning of the series - the character develops a new technique. And I have absolutely nothing against that. Bashing on Oda making Luffy use Gear Second in almost every fight since it has been introduced is kind of weak, you could also say "why did Luffy not use Gomu Gomu no Rifle/Gatling Gun/Bullet/Fireworks/WHATEVER before, and why does he use it now all the time?"
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Sorry for ignoring the rest of the post, but I only wanted to throw in my opinion on this one - while you are right that Gear Second has been used in pretty much every battle since it has been introduced, it is not exactly the same concept as a normal, standard "power-up". Most of these would be one time power ups, such as Nightmare Luffy (still can't get over it), and while Gear Second DOES power up all of Luffy's abilities, it is still pretty much the same development as in the beginning of the series - the character develops a new technique. And I have absolutely nothing against that. Bashing on Oda making Luffy use Gear Second in almost every fight since it has been introduced is kind of weak, you could also say "why did Luffy not use Gomu Gomu no Rifle/Gatling Gun/Bullet/Fireworks/WHATEVER before, and why does he use it now all the time?"
It's fine because you've raised a perfectly good point and I can completely see where you're coming from. I would categorize it as a power-up due to the way it was used but you are correct in saying it was just an extension of his abilities. Despite this however, I would catergoise what the rest of the crew have undergone as power-ups. While their changes may not all fit under the conventional sense of the word, it is still evident that they've been altered through power and clothing changes, rather than any fundamental alteration. This kind of change annoyed when Dragon Ball Z did it and I find it saddening that Oda's suddenly started doing the same thing. Again, fans judge Naruto for this kind of writing, why should it be any different for One Piece?
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PirateBeck explain to me what you mean about the flashback being bad timing and interupting fights? What fights were interupted?
Also, what is your obsession with "the SHs are back together so they should start a fight right away"?
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PirateBeck explain to me what you mean about the flashback being bad timing and interupting fights? What fights were interupted?
Also, what is your obsession with "the SHs are back together so they should start a fight right away"?
I meant the fight between the Straw Hats and Hordy Jones. The fight was stopped, they were captured and then… eight week flashback. All the tension is lost when we THEN have to focus on a flashback that could have been saved for later (like the Noland flashback). It interrupts not only what could have gone down if this had been saved for later but also breaks the natural flow of the story. It's not a natural sense of progression.
Also, while I'm not huge on fighting, the fact is this is a SHONEN series. What do young boys like seeing? Fights, why do think Dragon Ball was so popular with children? And what they got after waiting three years since the last proper fight (Thriller Bark)... a flashback and a fight that was ended far too quickly. When I wrote that part, I was thinking of the intended audience, rather than the audience who is currently reading in America.
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It's fine because you've raised a perfectly good point and I can completely see where you're coming from. I would categorize it as a power-up due to the way it was used but you are correct in saying it was just an extension of his abilities. Despite this however, I would catergoise what the rest of the crew have undergone as power-ups. While their changes may not all fit under the conventional sense of the word, it is still evident that they've been altered through power and clothing changes, rather than any fundamental alteration. This kind of change annoyed when Dragon Ball Z did it and I find it saddening that Oda's suddenly started doing the same thing. Again, fans judge Naruto for this kind of writing, why should it be any different for One Piece?
I'm completely fine with people judging it, I, too, have my little problems with the current arc due to some pacing/placement issues and some weird plot advancement uses such as (you mentioned it) Sanji's annoying nosebleed - but I guess that has already been sufficiently discussed.
And yeah, while Gear Second is obviously still a power up, for exactly the reasons you said it doesn't really annoy me as much, because it kind of makes sense and is just an "extension of his abilities" - he just needed to discover he could do it. However, I don't mind most of the other power ups - Chopper's form development feels perfectly reasonable to me, Usopp using plants now - well, I guess it's ok, although I hope he has a bit more in store than just this. And we haven't actually seen much of Sanji (Blue Walk was a bit disturbing and although it's pretty cool, I won't like it until we're getting an explanation of how it works), Zoro, Robin, Nami, and hell - Brook! He needs to DO something. But I think that the time skip was perfectly placed and it was obviously to make the crew stronger and give them power ups, so that at least the beginning of the New World will feel like the beginning of the story again in terms of the crew's abilities compared to their opponents - just a few leagues higher in terms of strength. And I'm really looking forward to seeing that.
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I meant the fight between the Straw Hats and Hordy Jones.
PLEASE call him Hodi Jones. For me. :ninja:
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PLEASE call him Hodi Jones. For me. :ninja:
I'm sorry, while I researching into what transpired, I happened to use the wikia and that's the name they used. Kids, let this be a lesson to you. DON'T TRUST THE WIKIA ABOUT ANYTHING IT SAYS.
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I meant the fight between the Straw Hats and Hordy Jones. The fight was stopped, they were captured and then… eight week flashback. All the tension is lost when we THEN have to focus on a flashback that could have been saved for later (like the Noland flashback). It interrupts not only what could have gone down if this had been saved for later but also breaks the natural flow of the story. It's not a natural sense of progression.
The tension isn't lost unless you are only capable of processing One Piece as a serial and not a collected series, which nobody should ever ever do. You sound like someone who only just started following along weekly for this arc.
You're like a person getting dizzy on a mountain, get used to the heights kid.
Also, while I'm not huge on fighting, the fact is this is a SHONEN series. What do young boys like seeing? Fights, why do think Dragon Ball was so popular with children? And what they got after waiting three years since the last proper fight (Thriller Bark)… a flashback and a fight that was ended far too quickly.
So are you bitching about One Piece breaking it's "non-traditional shonen mold" or are you bitching about One Piece doing something un-shonen like.
This is a consistently terrible critique you've got going on here.
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Young japanese should know that too much action kills the action. This was a problem with Marineford because there were a lot of epic match ups never seen. The action must serve the plot and not the opposite. Oda is building up these action scenes. I do feel that the lack of action is what makes us even more excited for them to happen.
I have to say that the descent into FI was a breath of fresh air and Oda has drawn us some of the best scenery in the series. Adventure and discovery are major themes of the series. The volume had hilarious interactions with the straw hats when they unintentionnaly took over the island.
As a matter of fact, the mermaid might play an important role (like the kung fu du gongs) but we have to wait.
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I meant the fight between the Straw Hats and Hordy Jones. The fight was stopped, they were captured and then… eight week flashback. All the tension is lost when we THEN have to focus on a flashback that could have been saved for later (like the Noland flashback). It interrupts not only what could have gone down if this had been saved for later but also breaks the natural flow of the story. It's not a natural sense of progression.
Also, while I'm not huge on fighting, the fact is this is a SHONEN series. What do young boys like seeing? Fights, why do think Dragon Ball was so popular with children? And what they got after waiting three years since the last proper fight (Thriller Bark)... a flashback and a fight that was ended far too quickly. When I wrote that part, I was thinking of the intended audience, rather than the audience who is currently reading in America.
I guess I just dont see what could have gone down and dont see what tension there was to lose. Did anyone really believe that Hodi would get OHKO by zoro and it would all be over? The fight was ended THEN the flashback started. I dont see what you would have prefered to happen. Chapters of zoro sitting tied up? All the SHs rushing back to the palace to start a fight (even though Luffy has always trusted the crew to handle their own stuff, especially zoro)? The SHs beating up fishmen left and right for no real reason? Without this flashback the SH crew has no reason to involve themselves in the political trouble of FI.
So you complain that the series isnt being grown up enough and is becoming more child friendly. Then say that their needs to be more fights because thats what kids want. You need to make up your mind about what you want.
Ahah Monkey King beat me to it.
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Things that I haven't liked of this arc:
- Madam Shirley's prophecy
- The Aquaman-Mermaid Prophecy
- The lack of threath from the villians (Understandable but anoying)
- The lack of the map (Again, the map is built when someone on the crew understands the layout)
- The Flashback could have been done in 2 parts, both interwined, but leaving room for mistery on the 1st one and climaxing in the 2th one
- Vander Decken and his motives are weird and contradictory (get the tresaure to age the princess to be able to marry the princes and to be able to get the tresaure that ages the princess)
- Hodi still feels like a Nastier arlong, at least not Arlong Lite (that's bound to change after the broadcast)
Liked:
- The island is beautiful
- Neptune is cool
- I started to like Caribou after people stoped saying stupid things about him
- The Queen
- The princes
- Decken's powers
- Robin finding a Phoneglyph
- Nami showing Jimbe that she didn't turn to hatred because Arlong
- The paralels between Arlong crew tatoo->Tangerine tatoo and Slave Mark -> Sun pirates mark
- The crew new abilites
- Luffy and Shirahoshi's interactions
- Fisher Tiger and his sad death
- Koala
The rest has been.. Off, the story has been zipping from place to place too fast, I still want to know if the shell on Camie's house is a dial damn it!
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I have to admit that in defending my point about the series target audience I unintentionally contradicted myself and for that I apologise. I was drawing on Oda himself saying that he is specifically writes the series as a shonen and thus one would expect fighting (not constant fighting as you said since it did make the Paramount War seem weak) but in doing that, I argued against my own point of it being a non typical shonen. So I guess what I wanted to say was that no matter how unique a series, if you're writing with a specific audience in mind, you have to include certain things in it.
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Vander Decken and his motives are weird and contradictory (get the tresaure to age the princess to be able to marry the princes and to be able to get the tresaure that ages the princess)
VDD wants some legendary treasure. But he needs to Princess to help him get it (for whatever reason). His plan was to marry her. However, she was like 6. He heard a rumor about some box that allows you to age things. So his plan was to obtain this box and use it on her so he wouldnt have to wait 10+ years to try and marry her. Im still not certain this aging box thing is real. I think its just a joke.
I have to admit that in defending my point about the series target audience I unintentionally contradicted myself and for that I apologise. I was drawing on Oda himself saying that he is specifically writes the series as a shonen and thus one would expect fighting (not constant fighting as you said since it did make the Paramount War seem weak) but in doing that, I argued against my own point of it being a non typical shonen. So I guess what I wanted to say was that no matter how unique a series, if you're writing with a specific audience in mind, you have to include certain things in it.
That takes care of that. But what about the Zoro and Hodi fight ending before the flash back started? How did that kill the pace? Also, this flashback gives the SHs perspective on whats been happening on the island. Without it any fights they get into would be viewed poorly by the FI population. So rushing off to fight with no information about the island would defeat the purpose of what this arc is trying to accomplish. In addition Im not sure the SHs have just landed in countries and started fighting people. They always get some info or backstory before it the fighting begins.
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While there has been power-ups, power-ups didn't start coming into the spotlight UNTIL Enies Lobby. It didn't detract from the series itself until Impel Down in my opinion but since this is about the New World, thought it was important to mention. Another issue I have with them is that, once established, author's tend to rely on them. I mean, almost every battle since Enies Lobby has involved Gear Second and it's kind of tiring to be blunt.
Gear 2nd is fundamental to his fighting style. If he hasn't used the ability in a fight, then he hasn't gone all out in a fight. It's not even really a move. It's more like Luffy's version of super saiyan. Can you imagine a serious Dragonball fight after Namek was destroyed where they don't go SSJ? What would you think? "Is this even worth showing?"
Gear 2nd doesn't really change anything from a reader's perspective. It's the same thing as before, except with steam, and we know it makes him stronger. Beyond that the fights progress the exact same as they would have without it. I don't really understand how it takes anything away, because it doesn't actually take anything away, except for a version of Luffy without steam coming off of him.
My main issue with the flashback wasn't knowing the characters, it was the placement and pacing. As I said, it was placed between the fight, the fight proper fight we've seen from the crew since Thriller Bark and it was annoying to see that stopped. I should note the fan favourite one of Chopper's did the exact same thing and that was changed in the anime because it was an awkward place to put it. Well that and it just wouldn't work as well in a stand alone television series.
I meant the fight between the Straw Hats and Hordy Jones. The fight was stopped, they were captured and then… eight week flashback. All the tension is lost when we THEN have to focus on a flashback that could have been saved for later (like the Noland flashback). It interrupts not only what could have gone down if this had been saved for later but also breaks the natural flow of the story. It's not a natural sense of progression.
I also don't really understand this. The fight ended. The only ongoing fight was between Fukaboshi and Dosun. Yes Zoro is captured, but leaving that tension hanging isn't really a bad thing, and it comes back as powerful as ever with the end of this chapter, even though he never even appeared.
You say the "first" (I assume you meant that) proper fight we've seen, but that's not accurate at all. Hodi was totally stomped in one move, even underwater. It was no more of a proper fight than against the pacifistas or against Surume. With Zoro captured, there was no fight left to be had in that sequence. Not until Luffy and Jinbe get back did the crew ever really have a chance to continue fighting from the get go. With the makeup of the arc, we had to know what was up going into this next sequence, and it did occur at a break between the fighting. Especially since part of what we're learning is why fighting would cause more problems.
You could try to make the argument that the flashback should have come before Zoro and Hodi faced off, but then there'd be no reason for Nami to be there. And she needs to be.
Also, while I'm not huge on fighting, the fact is this is a SHONEN series. What do young boys like seeing? Fights, why do think Dragon Ball was so popular with children? And what they got after waiting three years since the last proper fight (Thriller Bark)… a flashback and a fight that was ended far too quickly. When I wrote that part, I was thinking of the intended audience, rather than the audience who is currently reading in America.
You're not huge on fighting? Sounds like bull. There's no reason to project an argument that you don't support yourself. I like the fights. I just also have broader horizons than that.
Why do you think One Piece is as big as it is to such a wide audience? Because it doesn't cater JUST to children. Yes, it has the fights children want, but it doesn't stop there, nor should it. Oda's tackling a very difficult topic here, and generic fighting can't begin to do it justice. This is especially true when the "cycle of hatred" is a big part of what he's doing. What's going on here is bigger than something that can be solved by simply swinging fists and swords.
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Why do you think One Piece is as big as it is to such a wide audience? Because it doesn't cater JUST to children. Yes, it has the fights children want, but it doesn't stop there, nor should it. Oda's tackling a very difficult topic here, and generic fighting can't begin to do it justice. This is especially true when the "cycle of hatred" is a big part of what he's doing. What's going on here is bigger than something that can be solved by simply swinging fists and swords.
This was pretty much my thought on the current arc. Because of the subject matter, everyone flying head first into fights would defeat the entire purpose of the efforts we've been seeing from a good many characters. There needs to be some caution in who fights whom and, specifically, WHY they are fighting. This isn't the same case where Luffy just needs to be pointed at the one he needs to kick the rear of so that things get fixed. In this instance, that would probably make things worse really. And it's because of that that I feel this arc is a different kind of intricate compared with others. It's being restrained for a deep reason, so yeah, we're not seeing everything that happened, but really, do we need it to continue being entertained and to understand?
Outside of that… the base reason I would say not everything's getting drawn out is because the manga is established now, in series and in fanbase. It doesn't need to explain every last little thing anymore, or be explicitly big Shounen fight scenes. While it may be Shounen, I know I read this series for the story which is definitely not why I read (or look at) other Shounen series.
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Along with the points against the critique brought up already, what was up with "powerups only started at Enies Lobby"? Nami got her Clima Tact in Arabasta, which was an upgrade from her normal bo staff from East Blue. Zoro learned to cut steel in Arabasta. Zoro learned his ranged "pound cannon" attacks in Skypiea. Sanji, Luffy, Chopper, Usopp, and Robin admittedly didn't have any new "powerups" aside from various attacks until EL (Robin not really until the "big tree"/wings/"manos" stuff at TB; in her defense she debuted in battle in Skypiea and was captured for EL), but Zoro and Nami did.
My only major complaint with this arc so far is the pacing. I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of a map to help clear some things up, but with things heating up and Jinbe with the free SHs I'm expecting one fairly soon.
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Huuuuuuuhhh…..Just remember guys that you will NEVER know how or when the arc will finish. Things that have happened in the arc may be relevant for another reason which could end up changing peoples entire perspective on everything later on. We all need to understand that oda always does things for a reason. Have faith in somebody who has planned many parts of this series from the start. Just remember how franky at one point could have been considered the arc villain. The CP9 arc was a very dramatic arc....but not in the beginning nearly as much.
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My only major complaint with this arc so far is the pacing. I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of a map to help clear some things up, but with things heating up and Jinbe with the free SHs I'm expecting one fairly soon.
Pacing wise Oda has had the gas pedal floored a few times here and there. Especially at the beginning of the flashback. I'm sure he knows that if he didn't, though, that the millions of people going "OMG I want to see fightzzzzzz hurry up with this silly thing called plot alreadyyyyyyy" would feel it even more. So even if I might not like and agree with it in some places, I understand why it's written that way.
@Gia:
Huuuuuuuhhh…..Just remember guys that you will NEVER know how or when the arc will finish. Things that have happened in the arc may be relevant for another reason which could end up changing peoples entire perspective on everything later on. We all need to understand that oda always does things for a reason. Have faith in somebody who has planned many parts of this series from the start. Just remember how franky at one point could have been considered the arc villain. The CP9 arc was a very dramatic arc....but not in the beginning nearly as much.
The Water 7 portion was where most of the drama occurred. The Enies Lobby portion was mostly just fights.
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"The lowest rated volume ever. Even lower than Skypiea".
Great, then. Skypiea is a masterpiece, it was the lowest ranked up till now. This explains volumes about people's tastes.
Also, while I admit this is not being the best OP arc by a long shot, is still very good. Comparing it to current Naruto and Bleach is of bad taste, with the Z-movie like "ninja war" and the "rip off shit fest" that's the fullbringer arc. Both are so incredibly bad they made me throw both series, and now I only read people's comments on them to laugh a bit.
Current One Piece arc? Not nearly as bad, nor "sinking" nor anything of the like. As I've been comenting, the flashback went from weirdly paced, to the last 3 chapters being excellent, with some stuff being incredibly powerful, it's made some characters that didn't have character developement really likable (all the royal family went from unknowns to awesome characters, ALL of them), so I'd say Oda hasn't lost his touch.
And, also, shouldn't we wait till the arc is finished, or close to? Saying so early in the arc that "plot points will be ignored" is a little risky, right? I mean, it could happen, and it would be a little worrisome that this happens in OP, but saying it NOW? Oda is not precisely known for forgetting plot points, he's no Kubo.
And if japanese kids are impatient for some fighting, that's their problem. Rate OP low if they want to, but Oda should start the fighting when he feels like it, not when the kids rate him low cause there's no fighting.
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Wait… What's this about One Piece "sinking"? Is it just some witty wordplay that the person wanted to use or do they actually believe this is happening?
I wonder if people said this when Thriller Bark was going on. I would like to think the series has gotten so far because the fans are faithful, let's keep it that way.Anyway, the storytelling has certainly been different this arc, with Oda introducing (apparently) almost all of the main players near the very beginning. Is it a lack of mastery of storytelling that would cause Oda to do this? I think it's the opposite. I think he knows -exactly- what he's doing, which is why he's confident in laying down all of his chess pieces in the beginning. I think he's gotten to the point that he knows he can't please everybody, so he's fine with a volume or two of discontent from impatient readers who like to see swords swinging and fists flinging for the sake of the rest of them to be good.
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Wait… What's this about One Piece "sinking"? Is it just some witty wordplay that the person wanted to use or do they actually believe this is happening?
I wonder if people said this when Thriller Bark was going on. I would like to think the series has gotten so far because the fans are faithful, let's keep it that way.OP exploded in popularity in Japan during the war. It's natural that there would be a lot of people who jumped on board just for "epic fights" that are disappointed with the current lack of them.
You don't get millions of fans without having a decent portion of fickle ones.
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OP exploded in popularity in Japan during the war. It's natural that there would be a lot of people who jumped on board just for "epic fights" that are disappointed with the current lack of them.
You don't get millions of fans without having a decent portion of fickle ones.
Ahh that makes sense. I just hope those new bandwagoners don't end up becoming the termites that eventually tear Oda's glorious wagon down. O.o He's never been one to appease the fickle part of the fanbase (see: Ace), and I hope the huge burst in popularity doesn't change his mind. But, eh, he killed 2 of his most awesome characters when it was at that insane popularity. I think he'll be just fine.
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Pacing wise Oda has had the gas pedal floored a few times here and there. Especially at the beginning of the flashback. I'm sure he knows that if he didn't, though, that the millions of people going "OMG I want to see fightzzzzzz hurry up with this silly thing called plot alreadyyyyyyy" would feel it even more. So even if I might not like and agree with it in some places, I understand why it's written that way.
The Water 7 portion was where most of the drama occurred. The Enies Lobby portion was mostly just fights.
I meant the part up until the point that usopp fights luffy. After that the arc actually evolves into something else. I really didnt mean Enies lobby at all. My entire point is, is that we shouldnt judge the arc until it is over.
Edit: Oh yea and to Giantguy: we still may have not SEEN the main villain at all yet, and its been 20 chapters. I do in fact not believe that Hodi is the Main villain of this arc.
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Besides, with the benchmarks that one piece has already broken, It's uncancelable now, only oda could kill it, and we know him, he will go on to the end.
The ranking and sales are irrelevant.
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Frankly, regardless of any misgivings anyone including myself has, you still can't really make a judgement until the arc's actually over.
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I want to bring up the possibility that a lot of the Fishmen Island arc could be expanded on in the Anime with Oda draft filler instead of using random filler … but well I know how well THAT suggestion goes down
:ninja:Aside from that though - I'll admit the arc does seem rushed through - almost like he just wants to get the set ups done asap - but as a whole I am not feeling the disapointment in this arc some are getting - I guess the build up for FI for me is only what maybe 3 years not too sure how long I was following before I joined up to this site.
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I will reserve my full judgment of FI until it is complete and ready to be read in one (or two) sittings. Oda deserves as much. If I was following OP weekly back in TB or maybe even Skypiea I don’t know how much I would have loved either arc. But now I love SP and have a bit of a hot and cold relationship with TB (there are moments that I love beyond words but I have always found the beginning dull and clunky.)
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A lot of fans didn't like Skypiea, but after reading the whole arc altogether, most ended up loving it. Fishman Island is probably going to be one of those arcs you have to read in full to get a better appreciation of it. But like many have said, the arc is still ongoing and we should wait till it's over before saying if it's lacking or not.
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I have to agree with many posts within this thread. I've been feeling this way for awhile. By no means am I trying to bash this current arc but some elements has left me confused and need to be addressed.
1. Would like a map of the island. I really confused on how the layout works within everything. For example, is the palace within the bubble above the island, or is it in the sky? I know there has been debate on the site and I remember Urouge's personal layout of how it supposedly looks, but I'm still yearning for some confirmation.
2. The pacing as mostly everyone has commented on so far is way to fast, especially for One Piece. One Piece was one of those mangas that I really admired for it's pacing and taking it's time to address everything, now it feels Oda is trying to rush to a certain point or just pass it by to get to the New World. In my opinion, I would like Oda to take his time to enjoy every little part of this arc, especially sense we we're getting info about this arc since Arlong arc!
3. No huge emphasis on Fishmen karate. We got all this info about Fishmen karate during the Arlong arc. Then, we meet Jinbei and was captivated by his abilities. Now that we've gotten to Fishmen Island, there is no talk about any Fishmen Karate or any Fishmen Dojo's.
These are my three biggest concerns. I'm not going to nit-pick everything but it would be nice if we got a map, Oda slowed it down a bit and we was introduced into Fishmen Karate.
A lot of fans didn't like Skypiea, but after reading the whole arc altogether, most ended up loving it. Fishman Island is probably going to be one of those arcs you have to read in full to get a better appreciation of it. But like many have said, the arc is still ongoing and we should wait till it's over before saying if it's lacking or not.
In my opinion, this is the best part about One Piece. When you go back and read the arcs all together and see how everything falls together makes Oda storytelling really stick out. Hopefully, FI will be one of those arcs.
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Fine, I'll admit that I didn't defend my points made after my initial posts fluently but then I also admit that I rarely voice my opinions for the exact same reason, that while I may be able to judge something based on it's quality, it's hard to notice every tiny thing that makes up the story in a serial format. Some argue that I shouldn't judge the series in that way but, until the recent anime collections in Japan, that's the way things have always been. The volume collections are just 9-11 chapters collected and the DVDs are again, a select amount of episodes. Maybe this is the reason why people found it hard to get into One Piece in that, while as a complete collection it's easy to see the stories for their worth, reading it each week does not offer the same experience for most. From what I remember, aren't these the same kind of arguments people had during arcs back in the day? While it may be true that waiting around for a long enough period of time helps here, you can't deny that looking at it from a serial perspective reveals flaws that would be otherwise unnoticed.
However, I will concede. I was wrong to defend the fighting aspects of the series when I personally don't have a huge investment in them. I like them but there's a reason why early Water Seven is my favourite part of the series as opposed to the Davy Back Fight for example. When Oda writes drama, he usually does a bang up job of doing so. In fact, upon reflection, a lot of the actual fighting is intertwined with political or law based drama (Thriller Bark is the only real recent exception) but what I've found weak about the Fishman Island is the lack of focus on either. The idea of racial separation has certainly been covered in the comic medium before (X-men anyone?) and what annoyed me was the half handed way it was put in because we went from the early excitement of being there to the palace material then to the eight flashback with little else inbetween. My problem with the flashback was NOT the material itself (though I believe some of it could have saved for later) but where it was placed. Personally, to satisfy both the newer and older fans, Oda could have all of them near the palace when Hodi broke in and proceed to fight him, causing him to retreat at their immense power, realizing that he underestimated them and needs to plan before striking once more. He could have shown hints of all their new abilities during this brief period and then had Jinbei explain the political side of things since the Straw Hats don't know their history. As I said in the essay, it feels rushed and if it had been slowed down just a tad, it could have pleased all factions of the fanbase. I suggested that it hit a new low because, upon reflection, I thought these last 20 chapters contained the most amount of unfocused plotting to date. Again, I'll highlight volume 35 as my favourite because it contained everything I enjoyed about One Piece; a sense of mystery/danger, humour and drama. It may be wrong to compare this to that but within the contents of vols 34-36, I honestly believe he established the setting and story far better than he did within the contents of what'll make up vols 61-63.
Oh and just to clear a few things up. I said that Enies Lobby was when power-ups came into focus because, although you are correct in saying Zoro and Nami received them in Alabasta, they didn't use them again until Enies Lobby (Unless Nami used the Clima-Tact during Skypiea, though I don't remember her doing so). And that Skypiea remark wasn't against Skypiea but rather, the lowest rated volumes before 62 are joint between 27 and 49. It was fact more than anything else.
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3. No huge emphasis on Fishmen karate. We got all this info about Fishmen karate during the Arlong arc. Then, we meet Jinbei and was captivated by his abilities. Now that we've gotten to Fishmen Island, there is no talk about any Fishmen Karate or any Fishmen Dojo's.
Just going to go with this - this isn't really a story telling issue as yet - I imagine the Fishmen Karate will get a better discription or display when the fighting starts. Which may tie into why the map isn't present since the fighting hasn't started - even skypia to my knowledge didn't get a map till they were on Upper Yard.
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Fine, I'll admit that I didn't defend my points made after my initial posts fluently but then I also admit that I rarely voice my opinions for the exact same reason, that while I may be able to judge something based on it's quality, it's hard to notice every tiny thing that makes up the story in a serial format.
i thought this mean that you are not able to judge something on its quality. you just look at the cover.
Some argue that I shouldn't judge the series in that way but, until the recent anime collections in Japan, that's the way things have always been.
i'm sorry but i don't understand this comment..
The volume collections are just 9-11 chapters collected and the DVDs are again, a select amount of episodes. Maybe this is the reason why people found it hard to get into One Piece in that, while as a complete collection it's easy to see the stories for their worth, reading it each week does not offer the same experience for most.
wait, what? how do you know this?
From what I remember, aren't these the same kind of arguments people had during arcs back in the day? While it may be true that waiting around for a long enough period of time helps here, you can't deny that looking at it from a serial perspective reveals flaws that would be otherwise unnoticed.
first, people will always complain. there will always some stupid that only want to see a mindless fight. also, Skypeia arc happen after the war at Arabasta and at that time One Piece also gain many new fans. so when Skypeia had less fight, they complain.- i guess.
However, I will concede. I was wrong to defend the fighting aspects of the series when I personally don't have a huge investment in them. I like them but there's a reason why early Water Seven is my favourite part of the series as opposed to the Davy Back Fight for example. When Oda writes drama, he usually does a bang up job of doing so. In fact, upon reflection, a lot of the actual fighting is intertwined with political or law based drama (Thriller Bark is the only real recent exception) but what I've found weak about the Fishman Island is the lack of focus on either.
yes, that article from that blog and your comment about fighting in One Piece is stupid. it feel like an article write by some random guy that read One Piece from a wiki.
The idea of racial separation has certainly been covered in the comic medium before (X-men anyone?)
so what? its not like One PIece is the first comic that its characters has a super power?!:wassat:
Personally, to satisfy both the newer and older fans, Oda could have all of them near the palace when Hodi broke in and proceed to fight him, causing him to retreat at their immense power, realizing that he underestimated them and needs to plan before striking once more. He could have shown hints of all their new abilities during this brief period and then had Jinbei explain the political side of things since the Straw Hats don't know their history.
what is the significant of this?
As I said in the essay, it feels rushed and if it had been slowed down just a tad,
i feel this way too but i agree with Urouge too.
it could have pleased all factions of the fanbase.
haha.. impossible..
I suggested that it hit a new low because, upon reflection, I thought these last 20 chapters contained the most amount of unfocused plotting to date.
i'm suck at writing/literature, but i think you are wrong.
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i thought this mean that you are not able to judge something on its quality. you just look at the cover.
No, what I meant was it's hard to see every little detail come into the light when you're just reading the series in a serial format. For example, in Dragon Ball Nappa briefly mentioned Piccolo coming from the Namek which was later brought out into an entire arc of its own. It's happened in One Piece too, with Blackbeard meaning 'Haki' in volume 25.
i'm sorry but i don't understand this comment..
I meant that until the recent anime collections, which collect the series in the arc format as opposed to a set of episodes, one could never view a complete arc without having to buy several volumes/DVDs first.
wait, what? how do you know this?
…I don't, that's why I said maybe before it. It's an assumption and I could be wrong for all I know.
yes, that article from that blog and your comment about fighting in One Piece is stupid. it feel like an article write by some random guy that read One Piece from a wiki.
I guess I've learned not to consider the target audience when writing an opinionated piece. I find it insulting that you suggest everything I wrote was not considered in the slightest, especially since those who disagreed with the majority admit there are problems with the art and comedy but again, it's your opinion and if you want to think that, I can't stop you.
so what? its not like One Piece is the first comic that its characters has a super power?!:wassat:
No that wasn't my intent. My intent was the it's not the first series to cover the issue nor will it be the last. I believe it's been setup better elsewhere is all.
what is the significant of this?
To please the majority of new and old but since you think that's impossible, I doubt you'll agree.
i'm suck at writing/literature, but i think you are wrong.
That's fine because that's everyone else thinks and they're entitled to that since I'm clearly in the minority here.
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From what I remember, aren't these the same kind of arguments people had during arcs back in the day? While it may be true that waiting around for a long enough period of time helps here, you can't deny that looking at it from a serial perspective reveals flaws that would be otherwise unnoticed.
Saying "flaws" is a little too harsh, maybe a lot too harsh. It would be better to say "questions and concerns." Reading it weekly just forces you to reflect on every chapter before moving on. Some might be flaws, but there's no way for us to know that yet. It's too early to say.
Also, this isn't specific to One Piece in any way.
what I've found weak about the Fishman Island is the lack of focus on either. The idea of racial separation has certainly been covered in the comic medium before (X-men anyone?) and what annoyed me was the half handed way it was put in because we went from the early excitement of being there to the palace material then to the eight flashback with little else inbetween.
This is exactly the sort of problem that is jumping the gun without knowing what lies ahead.
My problem with the flashback was NOT the material itself (though I believe some of it could have saved for later) but where it was placed. Personally, to satisfy both the newer and older fans, Oda could have all of them near the palace when Hodi broke in and proceed to fight him, causing him to retreat at their immense power, realizing that he underestimated them and needs to plan before striking once more.
Same thing. Except this is worse. Hodi's going on tv to all of Fishman Island. Him having to give up and retreat from humans would take a good deal away from the tension and suspense and any remote threat of his strength as seen by the reader. This isn't a good thing.
He could have shown hints of all their new abilities during this brief period and then had Jinbei explain the political side of things since the Straw Hats don't know their history.
This is exactly what happened.
As I said in the essay, it feels rushed and if it had been slowed down just a tad, it could have pleased all factions of the fanbase.
I agree I would have liked to see parts get slowed down just a little bit, but doing so would certainly not have pleased all the other factions of the fanbase. The faction clambering for fights would have complained louder for every chapter that it was put off.
I suggested that it hit a new low because, upon reflection, I thought these last 20 chapters contained the most amount of unfocused plotting to date.
Six months from now, if you look back at this, you'll probably feel stupid for saying it.
Unless Nami used the Clima-Tact during Skypiea, though I don't remember her doing so.
She did so, twice even. Once against Hotori and Kotori and again later against Enel.
And that Skypiea remark wasn't against Skypiea but rather, the lowest rated volumes before 62 are joint between 27 and 49. It was fact more than anything else.
Lowest rated by who, exactly? You need some sort of reference to make a statement like this.
I guess I've learned not to consider the target audience when writing an opinionated piece.
But this is exactly what you were trying to do.
No that wasn't my intent. My intent was the it's not the first series to cover the issue nor will it be the last. I believe it's been setup better elsewhere is all.
Most likely, but again it's difficult to say one way or the other without knowing the resolution. Besides, I doubt you could name a shonen that's done the setup better even without knowing the resolution.
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Fine, I'll admit that I didn't defend my points made after my initial posts fluently but then I also admit that I rarely voice my opinions for the exact same reason, that while I may be able to judge something based on it's quality, it's hard to notice every tiny thing that makes up the story in a serial format. Some argue that I shouldn't judge the series in that way but, until the recent anime collections in Japan, that's the way things have always been. The volume collections are just 9-11 chapters collected and the DVDs are again, a select amount of episodes. Maybe this is the reason why people found it hard to get into One Piece in that, while as a complete collection it's easy to see the stories for their worth, reading it each week does not offer the same experience for most. From what I remember, aren't these the same kind of arguments people had during arcs back in the day? While it may be true that waiting around for a long enough period of time helps here, you can't deny that looking at it from a serial perspective reveals flaws that would be otherwise unnoticed.
However, I will concede. I was wrong to defend the fighting aspects of the series when I personally don't have a huge investment in them. I like them but there's a reason why early Water Seven is my favourite part of the series as opposed to the Davy Back Fight for example. When Oda writes drama, he usually does a bang up job of doing so. In fact, upon reflection, a lot of the actual fighting is intertwined with political or law based drama (Thriller Bark is the only real recent exception) but what I've found weak about the Fishman Island is the lack of focus on either. The idea of racial separation has certainly been covered in the comic medium before (X-men anyone?) and what annoyed me was the half handed way it was put in because we went from the early excitement of being there to the palace material then to the eight flashback with little else inbetween. My problem with the flashback was NOT the material itself (though I believe some of it could have saved for later) but where it was placed. Personally, to satisfy both the newer and older fans, Oda could have all of them near the palace when Hodi broke in and proceed to fight him, causing him to retreat at their immense power, realizing that he underestimated them and needs to plan before striking once more. He could have shown hints of all their new abilities during this brief period and then had Jinbei explain the political side of things since the Straw Hats don't know their history. As I said in the essay, it feels rushed and if it had been slowed down just a tad, it could have pleased all factions of the fanbase. I suggested that it hit a new low because, upon reflection, I thought these last 20 chapters contained the most amount of unfocused plotting to date. Again, I'll highlight volume 35 as my favourite because it contained everything I enjoyed about One Piece; a sense of mystery/danger, humour and drama. It may be wrong to compare this to that but within the contents of vols 34-36, I honestly believe he established the setting and story far better than he did within the contents of what'll make up vols 61-63.
Oh and just to clear a few things up. I said that Enies Lobby was when power-ups came into focus because, although you are correct in saying Zoro and Nami received them in Alabasta, they didn't use them again until Enies Lobby (Unless Nami used the Clima-Tact during Skypiea, though I don't remember her doing so). And that Skypiea remark wasn't against Skypiea but rather, the lowest rated volumes before 62 are joint between 27 and 49. It was fact more than anything else.
You look at things in a very weird way. Before this Arc began we knew there was hate for fishmen. It is logical to assume that fishmen have some hatred for humans. I mean the humans they see are generally pirates or kidnappers.
You talk about racial issues have been covered in other comics. So does that mean it cant be covered by anyone else? If thats not what you meant why even bring it up?
You say it was a half handed way of putting it in. However it was started well before with Coribou/Caribou on their ship. Then continued with hammond at the FI entrance. Also we even had a run in with VDD.
Why should Oda cater to certain fans? You contradict yourself again. This is the same line of thinking that brought you to the ill fated logic on "fights".
You seem to be under this impression that fights are just fights. Well they arent. There is much more going on Emotionally and politically. Hodi's attack on the palace began with his generals (or whatever they are) forcing the population to forsake the queen and disrespect her image. You act like Hodi is just some simple thug like Bellamy.
This is not a lack on the authors part its a lack of critical thinking on your part. I am not meaning this as an insult in anyway. Im not criticizing your intelligence at all. I actually commend you on teh way you have debated and admitted your mistakes. However, you seem to take a very surface level view on everything thats going on.
You prove this by saying you cant, or atleast its harder to notice things on an issue to issue basis. Well maybe if you tried harder and focused more. Pay more attention to the series and the information the author is giving.
I follow Naruto some but not nearly as much as alot of people. Because i dont pay close attention or care that much about it I forget things that other people bring up from the past that might tie into the current storyline. However, I almost never do that for OP. Your view of OP sounds like how I view naruto.
You claimed you liked (or atleast you seemed to like) how DB mentioned Namek and how BB mentioned Haki way early in their respective series. However, all of your complaining seems to be on an issue to issue base. This is another contradictory idea of yours.
You seem unable to truly enjoy OP on a week to week basis so why not try holding off for a few months and buying volumes or reading it after an arc has finished?
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Fine, I'll admit that I didn't defend my points made after my initial posts fluently but then I also admit that I rarely voice my opinions for the exact same reason, that while I may be able to judge something based on it's quality, it's hard to notice every tiny thing that makes up the story in a serial format. Some argue that I shouldn't judge the series in that way but, until the recent anime collections in Japan, that's the way things have always been.
No they fucking haven't. How long have you been reading along weekly (and what the hell do anime collections have to do with anything). Unless you're seriously suggesting Volume 1 didn't come out almost fifteen whole years ago.
The volume collections are just 9-11 chapters collected and the DVDs are again, a select amount of episodes. Maybe this is the reason why people found it hard to get into One Piece in that, while as a complete collection it's easy to see the stories for their worth, reading it each week does not offer the same experience for most.
This is only a problem for people who only just started following along. You'd have to be crazy inexperienced with serial reading to be making this argument.
Nobody following along for any real amount of time would be whining about this.
Deal with it. We all learned to already.
When the arcs done I'll go back like everyone else and read it again.
Hell I already did reread the early stuff of the arc and enjoyed it's world building a bit more than I did on the serial.From what I remember, aren't these the same kind of arguments people had during arcs back in the day? While it may be true that waiting around for a long enough period of time helps here, you can't deny that looking at it from a serial perspective reveals flaws that would be otherwise unnoticed.
No, YOU'RE making the same kind of arguments green rookies make literally every single story arc. Whining about pacing and choices for which it's faaaar too early to really judge yet (ESPECIALLY pacing).
I have no idea how you have a 2006 join date, you sound like someone who started One Piece yesterday. Let alone serial manga reading.The idea of racial separation has certainly been covered in the comic medium before (X-men anyone?)
Well then nobody should ever touch upon this clearly dealth with and over with issue again.
Also lolllllll at citing friggin' X-Men as the go to comic on prejudice.
My problem with the flashback was NOT the material itself (though I believe some of it could have saved for later) but where it was placed. Personally, to satisfy both the newer and older fans, Oda could have all of them near the palace when Hodi broke in and proceed to fight him, causing him to retreat at their immense power, realizing that he underestimated them and needs to plan before striking once more.
Or have him defeat Zoro and everyone there. What's the goddamn difference except for….gee him running away not whatsoever working with what Oda is trying right now.
Considering Hodi's making demands as the new leader of the island. Definitely something he could do while running away.He could have shown hints of all their new abilities during this brief period and then had Jinbei explain the political side of things since the Straw Hats don't know their history.
I don't see any gain at all from your placement.
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I like the style that the story is told. They go to new adventures again after the other.
