You know what, if it is necessary to end this discussion then I´ll say I was wrong and you was right.
Is your ego ok with that?
There's no need to be so upset. And I apologize if I came across as anything other than defensive.
Check your PMs.
You know what, if it is necessary to end this discussion then I´ll say I was wrong and you was right.
Is your ego ok with that?
There's no need to be so upset. And I apologize if I came across as anything other than defensive.
Check your PMs.
From a 3rd party's view, I can sense that you're being obnoxious, even from the start of the whole "debate". Please stop it…
There's no need to be so upset. And I apologize if I came across as anything other than defensive.
Well, I guess it´s ok then. I´m sorry but I just had such a discussion in real life and it was almost the same argumentation but unlike here it was definitely of hostile and offensive nature which made me very mad. Well and somehow I took it for the same. So after all it was my misinterpretation of the whole thing. Sorry.
From a 3rd party's view, I can sense that you're being obnoxious, even from the start of the whole "debate". Please stop it…
Just like I said, I wasn't trying to be obnoxious; I was simply trying to defend myself. I confess, I didn't exhibit the greatest amount of tact in my rebutals, but I didn't find an accusation like 'Don´t throw out false facts.' to be rather tactful, either.
Well, I guess it´s ok then. I´m sorry but I just had such a discussion in real life and it was almost the same argumentation but unlike here it was definitely of hostile and offensive nature which made me very mad. Well and somehow I took it for the same. So after all it was my misinterpretation of the whole thing. Sorry.
It's early over here, and I'm sure I'll feel like an idiot for being so defensive later. Once again, a thousand apologies.
There´s nothing there. :molly:
I just sent it out. I posted my response before I actually sent the PM. ^^; Sorry.
It´s ok, I´ve just received it and already replied to it. To me this thing has been settled in a friendly manner so I guess we can go back to discuss One Piece again.
Yes, yes we can Ivotas…...
Although all I can come up with is "LITTLE ROBIN EVEN CUTER THAN KITTENS!"
Why's everybody looking at me like that? I LIKE kittens
so #4-5 will be a double issue. but does it mean no chapter next week or the week after?
On what number is Jump now?
#4-5 will be a combined issue. No chapter a week after next week.
So are we getting a fix this week or not?! Because dammit, I need my fix!!
Why's everybody looking at me like that? I LIKE kittens
XD I like puppies, but I don't scream that I do.XD
Ouch, another break looming… ;_;
we are getting a color spread on the combined 4-5 issue too, so hopefully something big is happening that week either in the flashback or just coming out of it, i assume its still gonna be in the flashback tho, wont know till after this week.
Color spread will be unleashing of buster call, duh
EDIT: And I take back my earlier statement. Nico Robin is cuter than MOST kittens. She's almost as cute as MY kittens (snuggles)
Well since we´re supposed to be back on topic I thought I might point a somewhat interesting thing out that I´ve just noticed. Sorry if it has been mentioned before.
Well the World Government forbids the research on the true history. In fact it is the "History that cannot be told" and everybody who goes against that gets hunt down and executed right?
Well, then I consider it veeerryyy interesting that the Poneglyphs, that contain the true history are protected by politic leaders themselves. In Alabasta it was the royal family that protected the Poneglyphs for generations and yet they sit in the WG.
In old Jaya it was the Shandians that protected the Poneglyphs. They were the descendants of the people from Shandora. Again suvereign government if you look at it that way.
I think this is a very interesting observation and IMO this is what Cobra mean in chapter 218 when he said(thought): "…then... I ask you...!!!
The HISTORY THAT CANNOT BE TOLD... can be found...?!!
And that's what the Poneglyphs are?!!
{Then why have we…}"
I think Cobra is asking himself how it can be that his most important royal duty goes against what the WG says. I don´t want to jump too far with conclusions but to me this World Government just screams LIARS! Again, I sense some Vaterland-esque story potential here.
What does everyone else think? :huh:
@Octogon:
One could be that it was in Rogers perspective but he couldn't write it, so someone else did. Or perhaps he could read/write it.
The simple "Gold Roger, Pirate" makes me think he wrote it himself unless he wasn't yet Captain of his crew at that point.
And true knowing a language does not require special ability. But this is not just any language.
True, it's a dead language that is no longer used in common society. However, the fact that all people in One Piece speak the same language indicates the existence of a centralized root language that others are derived from. The Shandians are the descendants of the High Jayan civilization and are dedicated to the preservation of their culture and traditions, but still speak the same language as the Skypieans as well as people from the Kingdom of Lyneel.
The most likely situation is that spoken forms of the language still exist (albeit with nearly a millenium of linguistic drift), but knowledge of the written language is all but forgotten due to scarcity of written examples. There are situations like that in the real world; one of which is the ancient Zapotec language, which is quite possibly what Oda is basing the Poneglyphes on in the first place.
No. We know she has been eavesdropping on the conversions. She can easily do this with the ability of her DF.
She can also get into the library with ridiculous ease any time she wants as well. In fact, I'd like to see them keep her out of it in the middle of the night.
So far she hasn't shown a clue to her being able to read/write it at all.
We have seen her write… what exactly? And we've seen her read a book that she borrowed from the library (that Clover was aware that she had, which meant that it could not have been restricted) and a note from Roji.
On the other hand, if she isn't capable of reading them, then that drives a stake into the heart of your theory and vindicates mine. I would be wrong on one of the particulars, but the base theory remains the same.
But for robin to learn it as much as you say. They would have to speak it regularly. She could have been able to understand a few words and phrases. But not the whole language.
You can learn a language without having to hear it or speak it, especially if the necessary materials are at hand. Do you think an archaeological society that studies an ancient language wouldn't have translations notes on hand for newer members?
Besides speaking it like that all the time would put them in danger.
How so? It may just an archaic form of the language that they speak on a regular basis anyway.
It's pretty clear to me that they don't speak this language on a regular basis outta fear.
Well, again, everybody speaks the same language, albeit with slight characteristic variations, which suggests a root language. So it's more likely that the language is in the same category as Latin; a lot of languages descended from it, but the actual language itself is dead outside of academia.
As even then it was forbidden to research the ponyglyphs.
All the more reason for only one group to understand it, as there would be fewer examples to learn from.
It probaley means she either learned it another way. Or she could understand it by birth.
She lives on an island with an intellectual society that studies an ancient language, has examples of it on hand, and she is often in that library. It's easier to think that she simply learned it from them; if not now, then after the Buster Call has eradicated the island.
I can see Clover giving her a dictionary and his notes on the subject just to make sure that his work survives along with her.
Ivotas: I think the WG doesn't destroy the Poneglyphs because they think they may have some use in the future. Another reason could be that they don't know of the existence of many Poneglyphs. The ones we saw are pretty well hidden. Or they can't decide what to do with them: now they're on the move because, like Lucci said, "Government officials lately seem to have changed their minds regarding how to handle the "Ancient Weapons" affair"
Were Can I Get The translated?
:P
@Oboro:
Ivotas: I think the WG doesn't destroy the Poneglyphs because they think they may have some use in the future. Another reason could be that they don't know of the existence of many Poneglyphs. The ones we saw are pretty well hidden. Or they can't decide what to do with them: now they're on the move because, like Lucci said, "Government officials lately seem to have changed their minds regarding how to handle the "Ancient Weapons" affair"
Exactly! If the government ever needs the ancient weapons (say, to quelch a pirate uprising), they have the means to find out how to acquire them.
Well the World Government forbids the research on the true history. In fact it is the "History that cannot be told" and everybody who goes against that gets hunt down and executed right?
Well, not necessarily everybody. Somebody had to tell Crocodile about the existence of the Poneglyph in Alabasta for instance. That could have been Robin, but even she had to get the information about it from somewhere else.
Again, there's something suspicious about the fact that Crocodile began a massive operation to discover the location of the original Pluton at roughly the same time that CP9 infiltrated Water 7 with the intent of gaining blueprints of the very same warship.
Of course, he could have just run into Fukurou somewhere and learned everything. It's not like they're going to be able to off him like they would anybody else.
At any rate, the World Government is well aware of information that most likely came from the Poneglyphs. It's possible that they're relying strictly on second-hand knowledge, but there's no reason that they couldn't have their own teams of archaeologists working on translating the language.
I updated. First translating work in about two weeks since my HDD bit an ass.
Well, I didn't think that there was an argument for Olivia anyway seeing as how Olvia makes sense, it was mentioned in the spoiler thread that it was clearly not Olivia (which I should have put in there in the first place), and the fact that it's clearly written in English as Olvia.
Yep, I wasn't inferring you thought that there was. Just, I'm always the first person to say "We should remain open to X idea" but there isn't a shadow of doubt here.
Ridiculous newb question #005
I know the tomb of the Nefertari family was destroyed, but was the ponyglyph destroyed along with it, or was it simply buried under tons of rubble and sand? Can a ponyglyph BE destroyed? Or are they indestructable? That could explain why the WG doesn't destroy them-they can't.
@_Meh_:
was it simply buried under tons of rubble and sand?
Barring a larger piece of rubble falling directly on top of it, I don't see why the tomb collapsing would destroy a massive piece of stone. Now, a smaller piece of rubble could damage the writing on the front, which might render it illegible, but it'd be pretty hard to destroy something like that by crushing it. Unless Luffy accidentally smashed it that is…
Can a ponyglyph BE destroyed? Or are they indestructable? That could explain why the WG doesn't destroy them-they can't.
Well, why would they even destroy them in the first place? Why not simply toss them in a crate and stick them between the Ark of the Covenant and Rosebud? It's not like they're completely worthless to the World Government.
Anyway, if they're indestructable, then why does the Nefetari Family have to hide it in the Royal Tomb to protect it? Why not drop it in the ocean off the coast to be recovered if necessary or disguise it out in the desert somewhere?
Barring a larger piece of rubble falling directly on top of it, I don't see why the tomb collapsing would destroy a massive piece of stone. Now, a smaller piece of rubble could damage the writing on the front, which might render it illegible, but it'd be pretty hard to destroy something like that by crushing it. Unless Luffy accidentally smashed it that is…
Well, why would they even destroy them in the first place? Why not simply toss them in a crate and stick them between the Ark of the Covenant and Rosebud? It's not like they're completely worthless to the World Government.
Anyway, if they're indestructable, then why does the Nefetari Family have to hide it in the Royal Tomb to protect it? Why not drop it in the ocean off the coast to be recovered if necessary or disguise it out in the desert somewhere?
I think when it comes to the pnyglyphs we simply don't know enough. Maybe this flashback, with it's Ohara setting and "D" tie in, will give us a clue.
Also, I was thinking back last night to something someone said once about the "Devil" fruits being "Davey" fruits, and that Davey Jones was real somewhere…
Why not Monkey. Davey Luffy? Golo Davey Roger? They could all be davey jones's descendants!
I think when it comes to the pnyglyphs we simply don't know enough. Maybe this flashback, with it's Ohara setting and "D" tie in, will give us a clue.
The same applies to the many attempts by people to give the Poneglyphs mystical powers for whatever reason and to require mystical abilities to read them.
Why not Monkey. Davey Luffy? Golo Davey Roger? They could all be davey jones's descendants!
Possible. I still lean towards it being some variation of Drake though, simply because Roger reflects Sir Francis Drake to an extent.
As far as the D. goes, stephen rendered it as Haguar D. Sauro, am I right?
Haguar D. Haguard, guarded by a laugh? A phonetic play on Awkward perhaps?
In regards to the "Olivia" and "Olvia" issue, I wouldn't expect the people at Arlong Park to accept the latter, being manga swine as ye are. None of the archeologists mentioned "Olvia" by name, and even though she had a wanted poster, I've seen mistakes in spelling (usually by Toei) or in phrasing (Oda's 'Watch Off') that have been shrugged off by people here. It's "Olvia" until we see another version of the poster, aye?
…
Also, I noticed Null romanticized "Sauro" as "Saul", which is actually somewhat understandable because Saul was the (Israel?) king the Phillistines (of Goliath fame) were fighting. Methinks I should pull and Ivotas and use that from now on.
As far as the D. goes, stephen rendered it as Haguar D. Sauro, am I right?
Haguar D. Haguard, guarded by a laugh? A phonetic play on Awkward perhaps?
I think "Haguwaaru" is supposed to represent the Spanish pronunciation of "jaguar." I could be wrong, but that's the only non-One Piece hit I found when searching:
o_O;
Monkey D. Luffy
Puma D. Ace
Jaguar D. Saul
…
Hah, that's pretty awesome.
o_O;
Monkey D. Luffy
Puma D. Ace
Jaguar D. Saul…
Hah, that's pretty awesome.
That might work….but wasn't "Portugas" somebodie's name too?
I mean, I though Ace's name was a refference...but it'd work
Spelling Sauro as Saul, understandable. In Bible, Saul is written as Sauro in Japanese. (That's the only Saul/Sauro reference I could think of.)
Jaguar D. Saul, sounds cool :D
None of the archeologists mentioned "Olvia" by name, and even though she had a wanted poster, I've seen mistakes in spelling (usually by Toei) or in phrasing (Oda's 'Watch Off') that have been shrugged off by people here. It's "Olvia" until we see another version of the poster, aye?
Her name is mentioned as "オルビア (orubia)" instead of "オリビア (oribia)." … So yeah.
Exactly! If the government ever needs the ancient weapons (say, to quelch a pirate uprising), they have the means to find out how to acquire them.
Well nobody besides Nico Robin can´t read the ancient language and they can´t take it for granted that she wants to cooperate to learn them to read it, so the chances of deciphering it are slim.
Besides, if they obtain the blueprints and destroy all the Poneglyphs then there´s no opposing power for the blueprint Pluton. It´s actually a solid strategy for a corrupt politian to think about.
Well, not necessarily everybody. Somebody had to tell Crocodile about the existence of the Poneglyph in Alabasta for instance. That could have been Robin, but even she had to get the information about it from somewhere else.
Call it one of my whack theories but I always thought that it is no coincidence that Pluton is the only Ancient Weapons both Spandam and Crocodile new about. Since they were both linked to the WG I think Crocodile used his influences to spy on the WG and find out about this interesting thing called Ancient Weapon Pluton.
Of course that alone doesn´t mean that he knows where it is to find, but if he would be so well informed to find out about Pluton, then she sure must know why Robin is been chased by the WG ever since she was 8 years old. And that´s the skill to read ancient texts and revive Ancient Weapons. If that is the case all he had to do is to find Robin and made her join him. It´s not that far off it you think about it. Though it´s not more then a theory either.
Jaguar D. Saul, sounds cool :D
It indeed sounds cooler. Hagwall just grew to me but Jaguar really is cool since jaguar is in fact pronounced haguar in spanish.
Jaguar D. Saul - yay sounds cool.
That might work….but wasn't "Portugas" somebodie's name too?
I mean, I though Ace's name was a refference...but it'd work
There's a character named "Portgus" (or however you want to romanize "pootogasu") in the Sega Saturn game "Princess Crown," who also happens to be a pirate. Of course, Oda could just as easily have taken Ace's surname from the same source that the game's developers got it from. I really have no idea, myself.
Hm, Saul is interesting. Saul was also Paul the apostle's name before he converted. Sounds better than Sauro, because that's one letter away from Sauron. XD
i have a bad feeling about saul…with the hat, he looks too much like a marine. like a member of cp9...
as is obvious, cp9 are coming to ohara to follow/find mr jaguar, but...i dunno. something doesnt settle well between mr jaguar and me.
There's a character named "Portgus" (or however you want to romanize "pootogasu") in the Sega Saturn game "Princess Crown," who also happens to be a pirate. Of course, Oda could just as easily have taken Ace's surname from the same source that the game's developers got it from. I really have no idea, myself.
Didn't some explorer have a name similar to Ace's first name
Her name is mentioned as "オルビア (orubia)" instead of "オリビア (oribia)." … So yeah.
We arrive back at Juraquille v. Dracule.
'Ru' and 'ri' aren't alike, so it really can't be debated. Not really sure how to explain it…
Jaguar D. Saul looks pretty cool.
Please allow me one question since I don´t speak any japanese. From how I see it the "u" is always somehow very silent in japanese. That´s how we come to Wapol instead of Wapolu or Usopp instead of Usoppu etc. (if I didn´t misunderstand that).
Does this also count for the o? As I Saulo? Just curious because if it would be Saulu then I would take it as Saul but with Saulo I would need some explenation on the o?
This isn´t really much of a debate, just a question since I don´t know anything about it.
all japanese words must end in a vowell (except if it ends with a "n" sound). therefore, if the word ends with an "L" for instince, there has to be another vowell at the end of the japanese syllable. if that helps. it isnt always a "u" at the end of words. the name Brad is spelled bo-ra-do, but when it is pronounced it sounds more like bo-ra-d without the "o" at the end. it just depends on the word, it is difficult to explain.
It'd actually be "bu-ra-do." There isn't really a 'du' in Japanese, so I guess they compensate.
My first thought was 'Saul,' but I was thrown off by the last syllable. ocean's point clears it up a lot, but I still don't get it.
It'd actually be "bu-ra-do." There isn't really a 'du' in Japanese, so I guess they compensate.
My first thought was 'Saul,' but I was thrown off by the last syllable. ocean's point clears it up a lot, but I still don't get it.
There's a 'du' in Japanese.
Well, I don't think I've ever seen it used for converting the end of names to katakana.
Well, I don't think I've ever seen it used for converting the end of names to katakana.
What do you mean? ^^;
Please allow me one question since I don´t speak any japanese. From how I see it the "u" is always somehow very silent in japanese. That´s how we come to Wapol instead of Wapolu or Usopp instead of Usoppu etc. (if I didn´t misunderstand that).
It sounds silent because you're pronounciating it in English way. We still pronounce "usoppu" even it's written as Usopp. Same to Waporu. Eneru. We definitely have 3 syllables each for Usopp, Waporu, and Eneru.
What do you mean? ^^;
Generally speaking, ト "to" and ド "do" are used to spell loanwords that end in a hard "t" or "d" sound. The reason they don't use ツ or ヅ is because these sounds are palatized to the fricatives "tsu" and "zu," respectively. トゥ "tu" and ドゥ "du" exist, but they are more recent innovations, and are really only meant to reproduce the sounds "tu" and "du," rather than the consonant-stops that "to" and "do" stand in for.
For some further reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_phonology
… Depends on which romanization system you use, tu/du is still considered same input/pronunciation as tsu/zu. Tu/du is Kunrei while Tsu/zu is hebon (sp).
Something on topic... I can't wait for a spoiler! There's a really good full lengthed "fake" spoiler, but ... no real one yet :(
How do you know it's fake?
Usually if it's lengthy/too detailed it's fake.