@CP9:
Also the B word is not to be spoken in this forum.
I learned that the hard way…
@CP9:
Also the B word is not to be spoken in this forum.
I learned that the hard way…
Tater, see, with Nami a person that has info, and is not an enemy shows up, and tells them what happened. This is happening real time because we see Luffy takes a walk, and goes by the Fishmen.
Now, all the other flashbacks didn't have these same conditions, this one does. Everybody shows up, Jimbei (who isn't an enemy) has something relevant to tell to Luffy and his crew, because they stopped Arlong.
Tater, see, with Nami a person that has info, and is not an enemy shows up, and tells them what happened. This is happening real time because we see Luffy takes a walk, and goes by the Fishmen.
No it's fucking not. NONE OF THE FLASHBACKS ARE REAL TIME. I mean for fucks sake we aren't even timing them to begin with because it's a goddamn comic book. This one of worst arguments I've seen someone throw around for awhile. Stop trying to make it.
Now, all the other flashbacks didn't have these same conditions, this one does. Everybody shows up, Jimbei (who isn't an enemy) has something relevant to tell to Luffy and his crew, because they stopped Arlong.
It's not going to be fucking real time. How stupid are you that you think just because Jimbei tells them something it's in the exact same way and format as what Oda shows us. NOTHING implies this. Nothing implied this during the Nami flashback.
With this chapter Jimbe ascends to the glorious godtier of facefaults, joining Enel, Moria and Perona. Finally a really nice comical moment with him, freaking nice.
And Nami being around for whatever the hell is going to be told to us next chapter is a plus. This will mean some massive plot around her and the whole fishman business! Ohhh, I can almost smell the Fisher Tiger flashback!
Nami is a strange character for me. Most of the time i find her sorta annoying and unlikable. I mean she's a decent character but she can be on my nerves (not as much as Sanji).
But when she gets really serious I actually like her alot.
Tater, see, with Nami a person that has info, and is not an enemy shows up, and tells them what happened. This is happening real time because we see Luffy takes a walk, and goes by the Fishmen.
Now, all the other flashbacks didn't have these same conditions, this one does. Everybody shows up, Jimbei (who isn't an enemy) has something relevant to tell to Luffy and his crew, because they stopped Arlong.
Probably true. Actually, I think the most analogous situation that I can think of off-hand is the brief flashback between Iceberg and Nami regarding Robin's actions. Gives needed information for action in a brief period of time, setting up a larger flashback later on. There are some points where the comparison doesn't work, but it's what I'm predicting in terms of pacing. Won't hurt my feelings if I'm wrong.
Primarily, I went through that post because I had just realized that I had actually always assumed some things about the flashbacks in the story that were not true. Oda actually does a pretty good job of covering his bases re: long flashbacks not actually being spoken to other folk, which would create those weird issues of real-time versus space given to flashbacks. So, really, just further confirming one of the many reasons I love the guy.
Probably true. Actually, I think the most analogous situation that I can think of off-hand is the brief flashback between Iceberg and Nami regarding Robin's actions. Gives needed information for action in a brief period of time, setting up a larger flashback later on. There are some points where the comparison doesn't work, but it's what I'm predicting in terms of pacing. Won't hurt my feelings if I'm wrong.
Primarily, I went through that post because I had just realized that I had actually always assumed some things about the flashbacks in the story that were not true. Oda actually does a pretty good job of covering his bases re: long flashbacks not actually being spoken to other folk, which would create those weird issues of real-time versus space given to flashbacks. So, really, just further confirming one of the many reasons I love the guy.
You're both absolutely insane.
Oda doesn't plan any such thing out. Because we are not experiencing what the Strawhats experience in these situations. Where you got it into your heads that this was the case is absolutely beyond me.
THERE IS NO ISSUE OF REAL TIME/FLASHBACK TIME.
And furthermore…..FURTHERMORE...
That you would even possibly think this would be anything remotely fucking like Iceburg telling Nami that brief thing....with all the gigantic amount of things to be shown and seen. Is insane.
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
what the fuck whit jimbe's face
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Don't the Flashbacks serve us only to give us the context of upcoming or established backstory.
I mean no matter how much you sit and tell someone about that one time 5 years ago that ended up with you being in the back of an ambulance with your best mate sharing a blood transfusion. You could never understand it completely without being there.
@JERK:
You're both absolutely insane.
Oda doesn't plan any such thing out. Because we are not experiencing what the Strawhats experience in these situations. Where you got it into your heads that this was the case is absolutely beyond me.
THERE IS NO ISSUE OF REAL TIME/FLASHBACK TIME.
And furthermore…..FURTHERMORE...
That you would even possibly think this would be anything remotely fucking like Iceburg telling Nami that brief thing....with all the gigantic amount of things to be shown and seen. Is insane.
I'm not going to spend a lot of time on this, because a.) I don't care, b.) it really has no impact on my enjoyment of the series, and c.) you seem to be a little too passionate about a minor detail in a manga.
BUT, I will say, that there's a difference between honestly believing that all the details of a flashback are being transmitted to everybody in the area and having the subjective feeling of a reader that there's a lot of important information going around for such a critical period. My point, however, was that when I went back and actually looked at the flashbacks, I realized that none of them ever even involved any transmission of information to other characters. The only flashbacks that really did were the Buggy/Shanks example and the Robin/Iceberg example, both of which were contained in a single volume, thus removing any of that cognitive dissonance. So, really, what I was basically saying was that Oda had even made decisions in the past that should have kept me for feeling what I did as I read those flashbacks, so that you could then attack me for being stupid for feeling those feelings after I already admitted that I should feel stupid for feeling them.
Have a lovely day, Mr. Disease.
BUT, I will say, that there's a difference between honestly believing that all the details of a flashback are being transmitted to everybody in the area and having the subjective feeling of a reader that there's a lot of important information going around for such a critical period. My point, however, was that when I went back and actually looked at the flashbacks, I realized that none of them ever even involved any transmission of information to other characters.
Awesome. Awesome as always.
Among the many details that create this awesome whole, I really liked to see that Hody had to be fed an ES while being unconscious; that Neptune is really something, but suffers from old age even more than Newgate; and last but not least, lively Jinbe, a cured Sanji and Franky's mohawk. Everything is so fun and bright, yet so different, that the narrative flow feels just about right.
About the Arlong being a mistake of Jinbe: yes, you, the clever reader, knows people, knows things, and doesn't have to be pointed out such an insignificant detail; but other, lesser folk, might need to be told an explanation for something that was mentioned 550 chapters ago. So be cool with it.
…
Personal favorite - Shirahoshi praying at her mother's grave. This panel touches a string too familiar for me.
@JERK:
Nami is a strange character for me. Most of the time i find her sorta annoying and unlikable. I mean she's a decent character but she can be on my nerves (not as much as Sanji).
But when she gets really serious I actually like her alot.
Same. Nami's gag is annoying and boring. But her character has lot of substance.
I never expected to see Jimbe make that face, that was really funny. I'm also glad that Sanji is finally acting normal, he was starting to get annoying.
Kind of dissapointed of the cover story, I wanted to see Morgan..
Anyway excelent chapter, Neptune is the best, that was actual fishman karate? or is the school of merman karate? or it's just called merman when it's used by a merman?
First time since Raileigh vs Kizaru that I've fully avoided the spoilers, hard for someone like me that works all day on the computer and has a lot of mini breaks.
Loved Jimbei and Franky on this chapter, but I missed Robin, but I guess that she'll show up in the end of the flasback to say "The weapon has been stolen!" or something like that.
I'm kind of worried about Neptune, Hodi could shred him like that ship..
Liked the chapter but was dissapointed in the Zoro-Hodi "fight". After seeing him almost off-screened by Zoro I was looking forward to at least seeing the fight continue or something but Oda seems to be going in a different direction with him (Probably a Neptune-Hodi fight). But if that was the case then why couldn't we at least see the brief Zoro fight. The one thing I hate the most is seeing a fight off screened, especially if that fight is not elaborated on more later, whats the point of showing it all then?!?
Liked the chapter but was dissapointed in the Zoro-Hodi "fight". After seeing him almost off-screened by Zoro I was looking forward to at least seeing the fight continue or something but Oda seems to be going in a different direction with him (Probably a Neptune-Hodi fight). But if that was the case then why couldn't we at least see the brief Zoro fight….
I'm positive that fight will continue later on. Out of the water (perhaps?)
After Hodi chugs a ton of pills to even things up of course. He is no match for Zoro regularly.
Oda wouldn't disappoint us like that only giving us 1/8th of a fight
Chapter was alright. I liked King Neptune fighting move. Twas awesome.
Hodi is also epic. After he was fed the pill, he went fucking insane.
@THE:
Same. Nami's gag is annoying and boring. But her character has lot of substance.
Nami has gags? Well aside from just ignoring Sanji, and making him feel bad… but even that would be Sanji's gag right?
Nami has gags? Well aside from just ignoring Sanji, and making him feel bad… but even that would be Sanji's gag right?
Money .
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Forgot about that.
Thank you sir. I also fall under the category of not much liking Nami, except when shes serious. But she is serious most of the time which is good
Ok, let's see, the chapter.
Oda spelled Shushu's name wrong. How careless.
I love that statue on the fountain. It screams that Gaimon finally appears next chapter.
Can these fishmen really stand behind their driving belief about being the superior race while they resort to strength drugs in order to win? I'm even forgiving the flooding part because it fits their views.
Neptune's giant size current throw is great, but I'm just a little disappointed he didn't do something altogether new. I suppose it had to be done once, and hopefully we won't see it get spammed. Btw the panels of the fishman seeing it coming kill me.
It's good to know that SOMEONE in the OP world is too old for this shit.
This raises a good question. Where the hell has Hoe been all this time?
Zoro wishes he had one of those cool bubble hats. Usopp probably could have grabbed one for him, but he was too busy giving up.
Brook had someone do a dead joke for him.
Jinbe hardly recognizes Luffy because he's changed so much…
Two face faults on one page. Impressive stuff for a former warlord.
Am I the only one who's surprised by the fact that Jinbe thought Hachi was in jail?
Sanji is cured...? Really?? I'm not being trolled, am I? Please don't relapse again.
Luffy made quite a first impression on Den, bringing a princess in tow and dubbing him Franky's little brother.
I wonder why Decken is still painting roses on his axes.
Would you look at that, the bubble road DOES leave Fishman Island to travel all the way to the Sea Forest. I knew I wasn't crazy.
Robin's panel time has still been limited to a single page. I suppose she'll show up to discuss the plot tool she found after the...
FLASHBACK! It's finally here!! I'm quite pumped for a flashback for the first time ever.
11 years? That means Tiger died at least a year before Otohime did, and that the crew separated at least a year before then as well. So much for Arlong showing up at Cocoyashi the same time that Otohime died being relevant. I'm wondering if Otohime's death changed Jinbe somehow and made him regret actions with Arlong that he previously approved.
11 years? That means Tiger died at least a year before Otohime did, and that the crew separated at least a year before then as well. So much for Arlong showing up at Cocoyashi the same time that Otohime died being relevant. I'm wondering if Otohime's death changed Jinbe somehow and made him regret actions with Arlong that he previously approved.
I'm actually kind of confused on the chronology here.
But if you're right I like the sound of that plot.
Do you think Jinbe's as discriminating to humans or more than Arlong wayback at Cocoyashi? And can we say that Jinbe let Arlong loose in East Blue because of Fisher Tiger's death and had a year-quick (if the assumed chronology was correct) change of heart when Otohime died?
i just find it a bit humorous how Oda leaves us the last page with a piece of information we already knew
"the one who let arlong loose…...WAS MEE!!
pwned by johnny n yosaku should be reason for suicide
Actually, looking at Stephen's script it looks like he did it because of a deal?
Yosaku: In exchange for Jinbeh's participation in the Seven Armed Seas, he has set someone terrible loose in East Blue.
@JERK:
Actually, looking at Stephen's script it looks like he did it because of a deal?
Yosaku: In exchange for Jinbeh's participation in the Seven Armed Seas, he has set someone terrible loose in East Blue.
I think the intent was if he joined the Shichis with a anti-human crew formely led by the notorious Fisher Tiger, it'd be bad for PR if he was supposed to be a man of increasing human-fishman relations.
Maybe so, but nothing about getting Arlong and his men out of his service requires him to send them to East Blue.
So there must be something else…
Perhaps Arlong got upset with Jinbei for allying with the world government and decided to take matters into his own hands on showing the humans their place. Thus he left to the east blue as the logical starting point since it's the weakest sea
I would just like to offer something in on the whole "real time" flashback stuff. Think of it like a sitcom flashback. We see something, something probably much longer than what is being told. I'm sure it doesn't take the speaker as long as it does to watch.
@JERK:
I'm actually kind of confused on the chronology here.
I could have written it a lot better.
11 years ago: Arlong leaves Fishman Island for East Blue. Tiger should already be dead since Jinbe was in charge.
10 years ago: Queen Otohime dies and Arlong arrives at Cocoyashi Village. The events should be unrelated.
Come to think of it, yeah, I am pretty curious as to how Oda's going to explain Jinbei setting Arlong loose.
I think RDarren's got a good idea there, but perhaps Jinbei letting Arlong loose in East Blue was a condition that Jinbei wanted. As in, "Okay, I'll be the government's dog, but only if you allow to me to turn this one guy loose in the East Blue."
I still remember that time Rayleigh briefly mentioned One Piece, clearly thought about it in his head, and the Strawhats then learned every single detail about Roger's journey.
Liked the chapter but was dissapointed in the Zoro-Hodi "fight". After seeing him almost off-screened by Zoro I was looking forward to at least seeing the fight continue or something but Oda seems to be going in a different direction with him (Probably a Neptune-Hodi fight). But if that was the case then why couldn't we at least see the brief Zoro fight. The one thing I hate the most is seeing a fight off screened, especially if that fight is not elaborated on more later, whats the point of showing it all then?!?
Because this arc is going to go for at least a year and Oda's not going to show everything Hodi or post-timeskip Zoro can do yet. If either one of them went all out and we saw everything they could do, there'd be no more to show and that character would then be sidelined the rest of the arc.
I think RDarren's got a good idea there, but perhaps Jinbei letting Arlong loose in East Blue was a condition that Jinbei wanted. As in, "Okay, I'll be the government's dog, but only if you allow to me to turn this one guy loose in the East Blue."
Jimbei cares about peace and innocent people and knows Arlong's personality, that can't be right.
I assume its something more along the lines of, after FT's death, Arlong kept following Jimbei out of respect for his power and FT's legacy. Then Jimbei agreed to become a shichibukai, and Arlong couldn't stand that he'd sold out to those pitiful humans.
They had a falling out and the Sun pirates split apart. Not an amicable split, but a nasty one. (Other shichibukai like Hancock, Blackbeard, and DoFlamingo are allowed to keep their crews, why wouldn't Jimbei?) Because of Jimbei's actions and trying to take responsibility for his entire race and making peace with humans, which is totally NOT what Arlong is about.
NOT because he purposely sent Arlong out, which would go against pretty much everything we know about him. Including the fact that he felt guilty about Arlong's reign of terror. (And he never went off to stop it personally? What's the reason for that? Because Arlong wouldn't want to talk to the human loving traitor that he once respected, of course.)
Blaming himself for things that weren't really his fault basically. "If I'd just kept leading the Sunny Pirates and hadn't become the governments dog, I could have kept Arlong and Hodi under control." Kind of like Obi Wan Kenobi blaming himself for Darth Vader.
I'm starting to think thats the entire reason he didn't want Luffy fighting Hodi… he didn't want a repeat of the mistake with Arlong.
I also hope this upcoming flashback adresses when and why Whitebeard started to protect FI.
It could be possible that Jinbe simply regrets disbanding the Sunny pirates, him seeing what Arlong did with the leash off.
@S.C.:
I also hope this upcoming flashback adresses when and why Whitebeard started to protect FI.
Wasn't it because WB thinks FI would be in a hell lot of mess everytime pirates arrive and go that he decided to make use of his name to protect it?
Come to think of it, yeah, I am pretty curious as to how Oda's going to explain Jinbei setting Arlong loose.
I think RDarren's got a good idea there, but perhaps Jinbei letting Arlong loose in East Blue was a condition that Jinbei wanted. As in, "Okay, I'll be the government's dog, but only if you allow to me to turn this one guy loose in the East Blue."
I'm guessing "turn this one guy loose" would have to be more akin to simply "freeing him," since Arlong was clearly not given free rein by the Marines. Not that we're in disagreement here, but "turning loose" has some connotations that I don't think work in this case.
Wasn't it because WB thinks FI would be in a hell lot of mess everytime pirates arrive and go that he decided to make use of his name to protect it?
Oh yeah, that is correct. Still, if it's revealed Jinbe was a racist back then, I'm willing to say WB doing so probably happened around that time, and probably helped get him away from that, alongside that mysterious queen.
It'll be incredibly interesting if we find out Jimbei used to be a nasty jackass much like Arlong instead of the humble honorable guy he now, and something major turned him around
I have a hard time imagining it, but it'd be incredibly interesting and I could see it being the case.
@RobbyBevard:
It'll be incredibly interesting if we find out Jimbei used to be a nasty jackass much like Arlong instead of the humble honorable guy he now, and something major turned him around
I have a hard time imagining it, but it'd be incredibly interesting and I could see it being the case.
So he'll be the Malcolm X of Fishmen instead of MLK, right?
you know, this makes sense why the mouse marine man let arong do as he please. i mean, i know that he was greedy himself, but if jimbei let arong lose as a shichibukai,the government would have to tolerate it, and i'm sure a sleezy scumbag of a moues marine man would love it
@RobbyBevard:
It'll be incredibly interesting if we find out Jimbei used to be a nasty jackass much like Arlong instead of the humble honorable guy he now, and something major turned him around
I have a hard time imagining it, but it'd be incredibly interesting and I could see it being the case.
If you mean nasty jackass much like Arlong as in as indiscriminate and corrupt, then why didn't Hodi recognize instead of Arlong? But, I really want to have it that way too.
@RobbyBevard:
Choppers entire volume long life story and Hiriluk's death (complete with events Chopper wasn't privy to) took place in the middle of Luffy delivering a punch.
We can get a full proper flashback, and the strawhats can get a few sentances, its how it usually works. I don't think any of them have ever actually told their stories to their friends.
And for anybody complaining about the pacing at the end of the chapter… the entire COMEDY of the moment was in the fact that one crazy thing kept appearing after another in the course of a few seconds. It would have just been a boring nonchalant conversation if everyone showed up over the course of half an hour. Do you really want a whole chapter dedicated to everyone arriving one by one while nothing is going on?
I'd put more of a definitely on that. Back in Movie 10, I remember the crew mentioning to Brook how Luffy, Zoro, Nami, Sanji, and Usopp grew up in East Blue. While Movie 10 isn't canon, since it's written and directed by Oda, I still feel that's how the Strawhats would be in any other situation.
@RobbyBevard:
It'll be incredibly interesting if we find out Jimbei used to be a nasty jackass much like Arlong instead of the humble honorable guy he now, and something major turned him around
I have a hard time imagining it, but it'd be incredibly interesting and I could see it being the case.
I learned my lesson about not making long-winded, far-fetched theories, but it's possible. Tiger was a racist, Arlong was, Hell even Hatchi was one. And I guess Otohime changed him or something.
That said, if this is right, then it seems right the message he wants to tell Luffy is beat Hodi, you might make him a matyr like you did with Arlong and cause the rise of someone even worse. Now, whether Jinbe handles him to stop the cycle or tries instead to redeem him, I can't say.
@Cyan:
So he'll be the Malcolm X of Fishmen instead of MLK, right?
Well the Malcolm X thing would be a perfect comparison actually.
Malcolm was a good guy, he just fell into what was essentially a black supremacist cult, and frankly knowing those times bad things though he would preach you can't hardly personally blame him. His father was killed by the KKK among other things.
And even there he did good by being just this strong image of black defiance and respectability.
When he converted to real Islam after Mecca he dropped the cult and supremacist bullshit, and we were left with a noble strong willed man.
That could be a good Jimbei narrative.
Malcolm was always more interesting then MLK.
you know, this makes sense why the mouse marine man let arong do as he please. i mean, i know that he was greedy himself, but if jimbei let arong lose as a shichibukai,the government would have to tolerate it, and i'm sure a sleezy scumbag of a moues marine man would love it
Arlong was bribing him with cash to not report him. That was shown pretty clearly.
The concept that Jimbei's shichibukai condition was "All right, but let this one guy terrorize whatever small town he wants and start building a war chest to build a fishman army." is just… not what happened.
We don't know the specifics yet, but Jimbei feeling guilty about letting Arlong run loose is NOT the same as specifically sending Arlong somewhere to terrorize an area. (Banished him, maybe. Fought with him, maybe. But sent? Not like that. Not unless he was an incredibly different person 11 years ago)
ESPECIALLY given that he apparently didn't even know Hachi's been out of jail and at FI the last two years, he clearly had almost no news at all about what they were up to.
@Cyan:
So he'll be the Malcolm X of Fishmen instead of MLK, right?
Yeah. That works. That could be an amazing character arc for him.
You know, it occurs to me we have no idea how Jimbei got that scar next to his left eye…
[QUOTE=RDarren;2190219
]If you mean nasty jackass much like Arlong as in as indiscriminate and corrupt, then why didn't Hodi recognize instead of Arlong? But, I really want to have it that way too.
Because Jimbei sold out and started working with the humans at least 10 years ago. Arlong went off to further the fishman cuase in a more rebellious, (and more appealing) less subservient way.
you know, this makes sense why the mouse marine man let arong do as he please. i mean, i know that he was greedy himself, but if jimbei let arong lose as a shichibukai,the government would have to tolerate it, and i'm sure a sleezy scumbag of a moues marine man would love it
Maybe, maybe not. Commodore Purin's a counter-example:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-2182-9/one-piece/chapter-75.html
I recently watched the Malcolm X movie too, good shit. I could stand for Oda's version told through Jimbei.
Especially if we get a Jimbei zoot suit dance sequence.
@RobbyBevard:
Jimbei cares about peace and innocent people and knows Arlong's personality, that can't be right.
@RobbyBevard:
It'll be incredibly interesting if we find out Jimbei used to be a nasty jackass much like Arlong instead of the humble honorable guy he now, and something major turned him around
I have a hard time imagining it, but it'd be incredibly interesting and I could see it being the case.
Yeah, sorry. I forgot to mention it, but that's also essential my idea (Jinbei being a former human-hater), which RDarren also mentioned in his post. And perhaps Otohime's death was the life-chaning experience that changed his views.
Pet theory about Otohime's death: She may have been an advocate for peaceful human/fishman relations, which resulted in her own kind turning against her and ultimately killing her. That would probably cause Jinbei to rethink his morals a bit. I believe Jinbei even once said that it's true that fismen are monsters.
I'm guessing "turn this one guy loose" would have to be more akin to simply "freeing him," since Arlong was clearly not given free rein by the Marines. Not that we're in disagreement here, but "turning loose" has some connotations that I don't think work in this case.
Well, that's why I said turn him loose in East Blue. Not turn him loose on the world. But then again I have to wonder exactly why Jinbei would want him loose in East Blue specifically. I'm just trying to incorporate what Yosaku said.
@JERK:
Especially if we get a Jimbei zoot suit dance sequence.
Someone with talent.
Make this happen.
@RobbyBevard:
It'll be incredibly interesting if we find out Jimbei used to be a nasty jackass much like Arlong instead of the humble honorable guy he now, and something major turned him around
I have a hard time imagining it, but it'd be incredibly interesting and I could see it being the case.
Agreed.
Maybe Fisherman tige died right in front of his eyes along with young Hodi and teenage Arlong. They all vowed an incredible hatred to the humans.
Besides, I don't think we know when WB declared FI as his territory but it was certainly before Ace joined the WB pirates and after he unleashed Arlong pirates. After meeting WB, he might have changed his view on humans but it was too late to stop Arlong.
@RobbyBevard:
Someone with talent.
Make this happen.
Probably best you'll get is his Anime Head edited over the top of a clip :blink: