I'm on Tom's alive camp - been there for a while already, having fun and soda. I just find it as a convenient bridge to Impel Down and, besides, Tom and thin would make it a worthwhile combination.
Tom Lives!
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Erm,…the smileys I used should actually indicate that I agree with what you said, so there shouldn´t be a different point of view here.
I just supported your statement by trying to explain that if the Poneglyphs would in fact be blueprints of the Ancient Weapons, then we would have seen drawings on them because blueprints are full of that. And yet the Poneglyphs don´t have any of that kind on them. Understood?
wow that's what i call a complete misunderstanding. in fact i don't know what the dito smiley means.
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I really wonder if Oda would have another fat person that became extremely skinny in his manga. There was Tohza's dad, Tito or Toto or something.
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capn carter im not sure which translation u used but the judge doesnt say that he will be executed. He does indeed say that Tom has to recieve punishment for helping gold rogers, but then after that he says that the orders changed from being executed to being imprisoned. Spandam even gets pissed at the judge and askes if hes gone crzy
He went by stephen's translations, which like 90% of the board goes by. If omae, a Japanese speaker, didn't say it was a mistranslation I guess it's safe.
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Him being alive would make this just like Naruto, and the whole OMG Gaara is dead arc =\ (something that made me start losing interest in the series)
And no, I actually like TOM, unlike Gaara.
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Well, I'm coming late to the discussion and not really adding much faqs but anyways. I pretty much think/hope Tom is dead. But then again people in One piece are pretty fast to delcaring someone "dead" when they aren't. Like Satori's brothers coming to get revenge on their brother's dead when he was just beaten a lot. And the government are known to lie a bit around the edges. But for Tom he probably died.
I'm just a bit unnerved by his death. It kinda reminds me of the dub's Bellemere "death" scene.
Spandam: Throw him in the dungeons.
Tom: Noooooo!
And he was never heard of again
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If omae, a Japanese speaker, didn't say it was a mistranslation I guess it's safe.
It's definitely not a mistranslation. But as they say, actions speak louder than words. The judge's attitude with Spandam is quite telling and even more suspicious is his final scene where he he doesn't even say anything, he merely walks away with a solemn
"….....!!"
That's up to interpretation but looks to me that he was impressed by Tom's display. He could easily have made a special arrangement for him while putting on a public show.
I'm not saying he's definitely alive because we simply don't know, but there's a few hints available which show that might not exactly be the case.
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wow that's what i call a complete misunderstanding. in fact i don't know what the dito smiley means.
Well dito means "me too" but in this context it can be taken as "I agree".
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Are semantics welcome? Because it's spelled "ditto." Evidently "dito" is an amusing prank.
[on-topic retort]
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Funny because I spelled it ditto and then when I checked the smiley I saw it was dito so I though I was mistaken and changed it. So it wasn´t my mind playing me tricks after all. Thanks Kizo. =)
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And so Tom becomes Elvis.
Theres proof to him being dead AND alive… it would be ok if Tom was alive but would as said, cheapen Franky's past and value of what he did. I think Franky would be pissed if he chucked himself into an on coming train just to have Tom alive...
I think he's dead. It annoyed me when Pell despite being blown up with something that was meant to take out the whole kingdom/town/whatever was alive.. but it didn't cheapen anything other then maybe some drama and angst.
But Tom coming back would kinda mess things up. Let dead dogs lay or whatever. I think it's better to the story if Tom was to be dead, as cool of a char as he is. But then again as said once more he could have been held alive.
It rasies the whole 'is so and so dead cus we didn't see him die' convo's.
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Most of the SH members have had something die for them in the past. Luffy and Shank's arm, Sanji and Zeff's leg, Zoro and Kuina (Though we dunno if she's dead), Nami and Bellemere, Usopp and his mom, Chopper and Hiliruk (Did i spell that right?) and, hopefully, Robin's past sacrifice will be made apparent. So, if Tom's really dead, that might confirm whether Franky'll join the SHs, as he's had something sacrificed…
Or maybe i'm just rambling.
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Yeah I kinda agree with that Demon Days… time will tell gotta wait for it to play out.
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Wishful thinking Demon Days, but unfortunately Kuina did die.
http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-3/volume1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=220
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter005.txt
c.f. - Page 139 -I'll say there is the possibility that Tom is still alive, but i'd really prefer if he died. similar to the pell incident, it completely ruins the sacrifice the character tried to make IMHO. <_<
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WRT Kuina, haven't some people claimed "oh, the 'death' was a cover up, and Tashigi is actually Kuina with a new identity-amnesia-whatever"
It actually works well IMO. Kuina takes a mild brain injury in a fall which leaves her a bit off balance all her life.
She'd be an embarrassment to the dojo, so shunt her off and tell her to start a new life.
She still has a thing for swords, so she goes into the Marine to rescue 'em.
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it would be ok if Tom was alive but would as said, cheapen Franky's past and value of what he did.
I'm not sure how that would be.
Franky got hit by a train. He was trying to stop the train to make sure it didn't take Tom away. He failed. It was his choice and now he has to live with it regardless of Tom's fate. Tom's famous line is all the more meaningful when applied to that situation.
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After Sky Piea I refuse to believe anyone's dead until I see a bullet go through their head.
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WRT Kuina, haven't some people claimed "oh, the 'death' was a cover up, and Tashigi is actually Kuina with a new identity-amnesia-whatever"
It actually works well IMO. Kuina takes a mild brain injury in a fall which leaves her a bit off balance all her life.
She'd be an embarrassment to the dojo, so shunt her off and tell her to start a new life.
She still has a thing for swords, so she goes into the Marine to rescue 'em.
i have to agree. i mean think about it, of all the ways that oda decided that Kuina should die, he chose to make her fall down some stairs. That could lead to some brain injury with loss of memory.
In regards to Tom, i never really felt that he had MADE a sacrifice (well in the way that he gives up his life kind of sacrifice) from the beginning cuz we never actually saw him dying. Heck the thought that he was dead only entered my mind once i read this thread and looked at wat others thought. U SEE him alive on the train being transported to Enies Lobby. u read that he got shot my tranquilizer darts. If they were going to execute him, y would they tranq him and send him to enies lobby? o.O pirates are supposed to be executed in front of the public.
So all in all, i wont be disappointed if Tom is alive cuz thats wat ive been thinking from the beginning
And ulrezaj, by the way odas going, even IF u see the bullet go through their head theyre prolly still alive XD
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Wishful thinking Demon Days, but unfortunately Kuina did die.
http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-3/volume1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=220
She supposedly fell down the stairs? We see a funeral procession? And we're supposed to believe she's dead?
Pell. Miss Friday. 'Nuff said.
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I thought that the ages of Kuina/Tashigi didn't match up. And I'd be pretty disappointed if she turned out to be alive.
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After wat most characters in one piece go through fallin down stairs is nothing. just for the heck of it ill list some outrageous predicaments that characters survived off the top of my head:
-usopp gets hit by a 4 ton (i think…) steel bat
-anything that happens to zorro XD
-anything eneru did to people XD
-pell being blown up by a mininuke
-Mr.3 being dried up, eaten by a crocodile -
Shit, next everyone on Ohara will be alive.
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From what it looks like, only people in Flashbacks or the biggest bastards die.
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@omae:
Pell.
You know, I expected Pell to live through that simply because I didn't think the guy was stupid enough to hold the bomb the entire time. If it were me, I would have dropped it the second I had it far enough away from the city.
Then, when it made it look like he had died in the process, I chalked it up to the cliched "character sacrifices himself" scenario that comes up in so many manga. I was actually delighted to find out he had lived as it meant that a character in this position did the sensible thing for once. It doesn't make him any less heroic.
@Steel:
From what it looks like, only people in Flashbacks or the biggest bastards die.
Usually only people in Flashbacks actually; Arlong is still King Bastard in my book and he's still alive as far as we know.
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Ubiq wat ur sayin is tru…if pell was a frikkin jet >.> if u look at the pic he was barely high enough for the bomb to not affect the city. He had no idea how much the range of the explosion would be so he doesnt know how far he has to go.
and we're not sayin pell is less heroic...were sayin his sacrifice would be even more meaningful if he was alive -
They could be forcing Tom to make ships for them….
Perhaps holding the Buster Call over his head...
"Make the Ships or we use the Buster Call on Water 7!"
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They could be forcing Tom to make ships for them….
Perhaps holding the Buster Call over his head...
"Make the Ships or we use the Buster Call on Water 7!"
Hm..
That is almost(kinda of) the same thing they are doing to Robin.(I think. o.o)
But, aye, I could see them do that.
Was going to be something else…. but I forgot. :P
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Ubiq wat ur sayin is tru…if pell was a frikkin jet >.> if u look at the pic he was barely high enough for the bomb to not affect the city. He had no idea how much the range of the explosion would be so he doesnt know how far he has to go.
Actually, the range was clearly stated by Crocodile to be five kilometers. At some point, Pell must have been made aware of the existence of the bomb. Considering his rank, somebody would surely have told him such an important fact as the how big an area that the bomb would destroy. So he had to get the bomb at least 2.5 kilometers above the city to make sure that it was completely out of the city.
The fact that he was able to do this in mere seconds indicates that he does indeed possess jet-like speed.
and we're not sayin pell is less heroic…were sayin his sacrifice would be even more meaningful if he was alive
Again, I just don't understand the concept. Staying alive to accomplish more is always, always more important than dying to accomplish one thing.
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Wow….I do NOT have the patience to quote everybody who's views I want to address...
1: Kuina being alive would explain a LOT, certainly, and until I see serious evidence to the contrary I think I'll be buying into that theory
2: I can SO see the Navy making Tom build ships for them
3: To everyone who said Tom's suirvival would cheapen Frankie's backstory, think of this: Franky finally succeeding in SAVING tom would be a cathartic way to bring him out of the tragic cycle he's been in since Tom's death.
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alright, i admit u made some good points there ubiq, but it still doesnt seem that pell intended to escape in the end. I guess it all just boils down to wat u want to believe. i personally think he held on to the bomb as long as he could to assure the safety of the city and just survived (dun ask how).
and ur comment about stayin alive doesnt work because pell wanted to be positively sure that he was far enough away so he was probably just trying to get far away from the city as possible, not JUST far enough and then escape.
However this doesnt work in Tom's case. All Tom needed to do was accept the punishment and hed be protecting franky and the rest. Thats all. So the fact that the punishment became imprisonment instead of execution doesnt change anything.
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Giving your own life away is the biggest sacrifice a human can make. If you do it, you're a hero. If you instead of it calculate the range of the bomb and make a mathematical estimate of how to escape, and survive in the course of it, it's not heroic - it's geeky. Pell just must had done his workout, with that sixpack you can take any blow.
And Tom wasn't in a bomb, he was tranquilized. When you finally die in One Piece, you won't die from overdose but you go out with a style. And a character getting killed off outside the story is a big eh.
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ohkkk my first post after e-mail activation problems so here I go
Well I really liked the character of TOM and would be happy if he is alive but if he is dead again no problems but there is a possibility he will be alive because when CP9 captured Franky and asked for the Blue prints he said that he didn't had them and then Lucci says that don't worry don't tell us now we have a TRUMP CARD:glare:
Click and see
so since then Im 50% sure Tom is alive. -
Nice catch 14u…tho id say it should be 90% that tom is alive XD
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I thought the trump card refered to Robin… trump card being that they have a way to get to it even if Franky doesn't hand over the blueprints.
But I believe Tom is dead. I also believe Kuina is dead. I wish both weren't. I loved them both, especially Kuina, I thought she was awesome.
On the other hand, if Kuina is Tashigi, I will probably off myself. I intensely dislike that girl, Tashigi. She's like Kuina, but without all the points that I believe make Kuina cool. Did I word that non-bashingly enough?
Anywho, death in flashback seems to be the only death that stays. So I believe it will stay.
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Then, when it made it look like he had died in the process, I chalked it up to the cliched "character sacrifices himself" scenario that comes up in so many manga. I was actually delighted to find out he had lived as it meant that a character in this position did the sensible thing for once. It doesn't make him any less heroic.
I looked for where I might have indicated as such but I never said such a thing. It's simply more proof that characters who are made to look/sound like they die, don't always do that. There's a list as long as my forearm.
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ohkkk my first post after e-mail activation problems so here I go
Well I really liked the character of TOM and would be happy if he is alive but if he is dead again no problems but there is a possibility he will be alive because when CP9 captured Franky and asked for the Blue prints he said that he didn't had them and then Lucci says that don't worry don't tell us now we have a TRUMP CARD:glare:
Click and see
so since then Im 50% sure Tom is alive.I didn't catch the trump card line….and how the HELL would Robin be the trump card? Franky doesn't even know robin! And they can't use the weapon without franky because they need the blueprints. Now i'm almost CERTAIN tom's alive.
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I thought the trump card refered to Robin… trump card being that they have a way to get to it even if Franky doesn't hand over the blueprints.
But I believe Tom is dead. I also believe Kuina is dead. I wish both weren't. I loved them both, especially Kuina, I thought she was awesome.
On the other hand, if Kuina is Tashigi, I will probably off myself. I intensely dislike that girl, Tashigi. She's like Kuina, but without all the points that I believe make Kuina cool. Did I word that non-bashingly enough?
Anywho, death in flashback seems to be the only death that stays. So I believe it will stay.
We saw Kuina's corpse. She's quite D-E-D dead. The fact that we haven't seen Tom die on-screen, as it were, lends some credibility to the theory that he might still be alive. For characters that are indisputibly dead, we have seen their deaths or their corpses (Bellemere and Hiruluk come to mind).
I like that Tashigi is a separate character. I like that she has a polite, nice side–but she isn't afraid to use her authority when it is given to her. Look at the way she handles the Marines under her command. For all of Tashigi's flighty moments, she's a capable and respected woman.
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I cried my tears at the last time tom was shot in water seven and when he was in puffing tom on his way to enies lobby..
He's a father figure to franky, and I'm sure franky blamed himself for what happed to tom, and he's still feeling guilty.
and if tom is still alive, it'll make franky loose his guiltiness, and after that of course he will be free to join the strawhat. cos tom will take care of his family -
I didn't catch the trump card line….and how the HELL would Robin be the trump card? Franky doesn't even know robin! And they can't use the weapon without franky because they need the blueprints. Now i'm almost CERTAIN tom's alive.
ehhhh … Voodzik Franky actually did knew about Robin. Remember Tom showed him and IceBurg a poster of Nico Robin.Now Im pretty much sure he is not so dumb that if Franky sees her and didn't recognize her :mellow:
and if tom is still alive, it'll make franky loose his guiltiness, and after that of course he will be free to join the strawhat. cos tom will take care of his family
exactly as I thought. Tom will say "come on kids now we will dismantle.. eh I mean build a ship WITH A DON!!! :D
BTW what does DON means :wacko:
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I always thought the trump card comment was about Cutty Flam´s attack at Spandam. Remember, back when Lucci made that comment the flashback didn´t take place so everything that happened in the past was still a mystery until then. So the trump card could refer to Flam´s crime about which we learned a couple of chapters later.
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Wishful thinking Demon Days, but unfortunately Kuina did die.
http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-3/volume1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=220
http://www.mangascreener.com/stephen/onepiece/chapter005.txt
c.f. - Page 139 -Well, i was kinda hoping that, cuz that helps my theory.
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We saw Kuina's corpse.
What we saw was a faceless body lying down covered over.
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Ok if Kuina really turns out to be alive and if Oda really wraps that around well in a way that I can accept it or even like it, then IMO this will be his biggest masterpiece in One Piece.
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I don't know if he will or not. But it's just not bright to say, "It's impossible because she's dead and we saw it and that's a fact.", because we simply don't know for certain. Maybe we will someday but for the time being, it could go either way.
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I never said that we´ve seen her dead for certain. But since it has been said that she died I hope that it stays that way, because if not then I sense serious sope opera syndrom here.
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she's dead
ooshi78
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uhm….ooshi, I missed the part where you were Oda and knew everything...
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Guys you are arguing over stupid things. Kuina died and we did see her funeral. and after completing his training we see zoro praying at her grave before leaving so its final. she is dead. its not like she will get out of the grave now
Regarding Tom we only saw him taken to Enies Lobby in the Sea train but we didn't saw him die so its safe to think that he may not dead.(ehhhh … 20 characters XD )
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Guys you are arguing over stupid things. Kuina died and we did see her funeral. and after completing his training we see zoro praying at her grave before leaving so its final. she is dead. its not like she will get out of the grave now
Regarding Tom we only saw him taken to Enies Lobby in the Sea train but we didn't saw him die so its safe to think that he may not dead.(ehhhh … 20 characters )
WTF??? Why did you type that 20 characters thing? I´m not a genius in mathematics but from the first look of it I would say that your first paragraph should have more then 20 characters.
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The14u, maybe she will!
"Someone dropped the Zombie Zombie no mi on her grave… she gets up all the time now." XD
Oooo... fascinating possibility: what if, like the Odyssey, the Strawhats have to go through Hell to advance? That would be freaky. We'd get some spectacular closure moments.