He wasn't submerged. I don't think it makes a difference whether it's saltwater or not.
Chapter 391 "A Girl Called Devil" Discussion
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He wasn't submerged. I don't think it makes a difference whether it's saltwater or not.
Yeah, I went back and checked that after I posted and found that to be the case.
At any rate, why wouldn't it make a difference? Or, in other words, why would freshwater affect a Devil Fruit user?
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When Crocodile drops him into the bananadile tank in the first place, Mr. 3 doesn't seem to be having problems being underwater. The easier conclusion is that it's fresh water and thus doesn't affect him.
Huh, there´s no water where Crocodile dropped him. The water surounds that scenery but where Mr. 3 lands and get´s devoured is completely waterfree. You don´t land that hard if you fall into water.
As far as the floating business goes, he's on a table. It's pretty obvious if you look close enough. Not that it was really necessary though, as his density was lower than water anyway.
I know that part since Oda even mentioned it in one of his SBS. I was just trying that it may have slipped Oda´s attention. Wouldn´t have been the first time. Just remember the thing with Franky´s iron fist that was first in the right, then in the left hand to be gone at the end of the same sequence.
If I would have to decide which one of the scenes is coherent, the Luffy or the Mr. 3 scene I chose the Luffy scene because here the dialog is directly based on the high water and the losing strenght thing. Unless of course Oda is a total idiot (which he is not) it is impossible for to slip his attention.
The Mr. 3 scene might and I only say might be another scene where a glitch happened, since it didn´t focus about strenght losing stuff but about his triumphant return. -
At any rate, why wouldn't it make a difference? Or, in other words, why would freshwater affect a Devil Fruit user?
I doubt those crocs were in saltwater.
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Huh, there´s no water where Crocodile dropped him. The water surounds that scenery but where Mr. 3 lands and get´s devoured is completely waterfree. You don´t land that hard if you fall into water.
Yeah, my memory of the scene was faulty. I remembered Mr. 3's comment about being underwater, but not that he was referring to the tanks around him.
I know that part since Oda even mentioned it in one of his SBS. I was just trying that it may have slipped Oda´s attention.
But the Franky incident can be chalked up to an artistic glitch; Mr. 3 moving around in water with no ill-effects was part of the plot. His intent was obviously to leave them there to die and he couldn't do that if the water was interfering with his ability to move.
If I would have to decide which one of the scenes is coherent, the Luffy or the Mr. 3 scene I chose the Luffy scene because here the dialog is directly based on the high water and the losing strenght thing.
See, I choose the Mr. 3 scene because Luffy has been wading around in the water quite a bit without showing ill effects and after that one short episode seems okay again despite the fact that the water actively gets deeper. It's easier to suggest that he was not totally recovered from his contact with seastone. Seawater itself seems to have an instantaneous effect on the Devil Fruit user rather than the delayed reaction observed from seastone, so it's possible that the effects of seastone might linger longer.
I doubt those crocs were in saltwater.
All the more reason for the water to not have an effect on Luffy or Mr. 3.
All instances where a Devil Fruit user has been weakened by contact with water have involved either seastone or the Sea itself.
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Yeah, my memory of the scene was faulty. I remembered Mr. 3's comment about being underwater, but not that he was referring to the tanks around him.
But the Franky incident can be chalked up to an artistic glitch; Mr. 3 moving around in water with no ill-effects was part of the plot. His intent was obviously to leave them there to die and he couldn't do that if the water was interfering with his ability to move.
See, I choose the Mr. 3 scene because Luffy has been wading around in the water quite a bit without showing ill effects and after that one short episode seems okay again despite the fact that the water actively gets deeper. It's easier to suggest that he was not totally recovered from his contact with seastone. Seawater itself seems to have an instantaneous effect on the Devil Fruit user rather than the delayed reaction observed from seastone, so it's possible that the effects of seastone might linger longer.
All the more reason for the water to not have an effect on Luffy or Mr. 3.
All instances where a Devil Fruit user has been weakened by contact with water have involved either seastone or the Sea itself.
Well…. I don't know anyone said this yet...
But didn't Luffy throw water on him to fight Crocodile?
If anyone did... sorry. :P
(I am going with The sea water and Seastone weaking the DF users.)
...Hm... I will look, and see if he really did throw water on himself.
edit: Well, so far it seems he just put the water on his hands... and maybe feet. o.o Is/was read chapter 199
edit: Chapter 200 page 10 the last panel: It look like Luffy drench himself with water.
http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-3/volume22.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4190
See?
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But didn't Luffy throw water on him to fight Crocodile?
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See?
That was an attempt by Luffy to prevent Crocodile from avoiding damage by switching to his elemental form. Getting soaked like this was a weakness of the Sand Logia Fruit as it made Crocodile's body stick together rather than come apart like it should. This would not affect Logias in general.
Note that blood has a similar effect on Crocodile, but is even more effective due to its stickiness.
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That was an attempt by Luffy to prevent Crocodile from avoiding damage by switching to his elemental form. Getting soaked like this was a weakness of the Sand Logia Fruit as it made Crocodile's body stick together rather than come apart like it should. This would not affect Logias in general.
Note that blood has a similar effect on Crocodile, but is even more effective due to its stickiness.
True, I will have agree that Luffy had better luck with the blood than the water. :P
…..Eh.. you know? I forgot what side I was trying to help now if any... >_>
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…..Eh.. you know? I forgot what side I was trying to help now if any... >_>
I really wasn't sure either, so I went with a description of the event that you described in response and how it related to the discussion at hand.
An easier way to organize your thoughts on a particular topic is to only quote sections that you are directly responding to. When you do this, your full attention is focused on an individual point rather than the entire message as a whole. If you quote an entire message and then add a response, it can be confusing as to which particular point you are discussing and it's much easier to forget to add a particular point that you wanted to make.
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I really wasn't sure either, so I went with a description of the event that you described in response and how it related to the discussion at hand.
An easier way to organize your thoughts on a particular topic is to only quote sections that you are directly responding to. When you do this, your full attention is focused on an individual point rather than the entire message as a whole. If you quote an entire message and then add a response, it can be confusing as to which particular point you are discussing and it's much easier to forget to add a particular point that you wanted to make.
Aye, I got to remember to do that… it stop me and the person I am quote from getting confuse. >_>
Now I think about it, I think I was try to help your point about the water.
All the more reason for the water to not have an effect on Luffy or Mr. 3.
All instances where a Devil Fruit user has been weakened by contact with water have involved either seastone or the Sea itself.
^This…
.......Sorry about being confusing. XD (Heck, I got myself confuse. >_<
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Mr. 3 landed on solid ground. He was underwater but not in the water. >< Does that make sense? The way I understand it, he formed the Doru Doru Ball around himself before the crocodile devoured him. That's how he was able to stay alive. So I'm guessing that even if the crocodile that ate him were to go in the water, he wouldn't be affected since he was inside the crocodile and had the doru doru ball around him.
Edit: He said the moment he was swallowed, he formed the doru doru ball
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But the Franky incident can be chalked up to an artistic glitch; Mr. 3 moving around in water with no ill-effects was part of the plot. His intent was obviously to leave them there to die and he couldn't do that if the water was interfering with his ability to move.
See, I choose the Mr. 3 scene because Luffy has been wading around in the water quite a bit without showing ill effects and after that one short episode seems okay again despite the fact that the water actively gets deeper. It's easier to suggest that he was not totally recovered from his contact with seastone. Seawater itself seems to have an instantaneous effect on the Devil Fruit user rather than the delayed reaction observed from seastone, so it's possible that the effects of seastone might linger longer.
Come to think about it again. Maybe it could also mean that water requires some time to make you feel weak if it doesn´t cover your entire body. After all it Luffy was standing much longer in the water then Mr. 3 who just came out of his wax ball. Could be the same reason why Aokiji could use his powers though he held his hand in water.
It´s also a concentration thing that has something to do with time. It appears that a small amout of seastone placed at the right place is more effective then a bigger amount of water. Otherwise Luffy, Smoker, Buggy and Alvida shouldn´t have been able to move around and use their DF powers in LogueTowns rain, nor should Luffy have been able to fight Crocodile when his body was covered with a little amount of water.
To me concentration is definitely one factor. Time might be another one. I´m not so convinced of the time factor myself, but it could explain the stuff I mentioned in the first paragraph.
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What the Devil fruit does is disable your swimming ability, the seastone weaken the user. The saltsea has partical seastone, which is why it weakens the user in some areas of the sea. Tell me, if water is the weakness, why did we see Luffy drink water? If the water goes above Luffy's head he may frail around but he won't have any potinal engery to kick up the current pressure to pick himself because he lost the ability to swim and the DF prevents him from mastering a swimming skills. That's al to it.
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@joekido:
What the Devil fruit does is disable your swimming ability, the seastone weaken the user.
And how exactly do you think the disabling to swim thing works? Of course it has something to do with weaken your body. Just look back at chapter 19 where Buggy falls into the water. His body clearly can´t move. It doesn´t obey to his command. To me this is what happens when you lose strenght.
You are aware that losing your strenght doesn´t automatically mean that you lose your DF ability? coughArlong Park cough
The saltsea has partical seastone, which is why it weakens the user in some areas of the sea.
If that was true then Luffy and Smoker wouldn´t have required help while they were going under in Rain Dinners freshwater.
Tell me, if water is the weakness, why did we see Luffy drink water?
Drinking water and being covered by it are two completely pairs of shoes. Drinking is a digesting process where the water changes is condition. It´s actually very easy to understand the difference between drinking and being covered by it. And if you would have read closely, I said that small amounts of water probably don´t weaken DF users like bigger amounts.
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Maybe it could also mean that water requires some time to make you feel weak if it doesn´t cover your entire body. After all it Luffy was standing much longer in the water then Mr. 3 who just came out of his wax ball.
That's possible… but it's just as possible that Luffy was still feeling the after-effects of his prolonged contact with seastone. He felt faint for a second and then shook it off for the rest of the time that he was in the water rather than getting weaker as time went by.
Anyway, I seriously doubt that was seawater that was pouring it; if for no other reason than the fact that Rainbase is an oasis. Plus it would require transporting seawater all of the way from the coast when the cage itself is already made of an element that emulates seawater.
On a side note, I wonder how in the hell Wapol didn't die after Luffy blasted him off into the horizon. He must have made a raft while he was still in mid-air of the chunks he bit out of Merry. Quick thinking for a hippo.
Could be the same reason why Aokiji could use his powers though he held his hand in water.
That or the ability to wield an element is different from the ability to shift forms. It's more likely that seastone is stronger simply because it's concentrated while the same particles in seawater would be diffused.
Robin's ability to grow an eye on Luffy's hand is another incident where Devil Fruit powers are not shut off by immersion in the sea. Or, in this case, the presence of seastone particulate, which is another suggestion that Paramecia types might be less vulnerable to the sea than Logias.
It´s also a concentration thing that has something to do with time. It appears that a small amout of seastone placed at the right place is more effective then a bigger amount of water.
On the other hand, prolonged contact with seastone seems to have a limit as to how weak it'll make the User as Robin is still able to move around despite her cuffs being on her for a really long time now. She's acts a bit tired, but not enough to collapse yet. Of course, she isn't supporting the weight of a full grown man like Ener was and hasn't absorbed a shot from Smoker's baton on top of the contact like Luffy did.
Otherwise Luffy, Smoker, Buggy and Alvida shouldn´t have been able to move around and use their DF powers in LogueTowns rain, nor should Luffy have been able to fight Crocodile when his body was covered with a little amount of water.
The easier conclusion is that fresh water simply does not affect Devil Fruit users like seawater does, which is supported by the fact that all known instances of a Devil Fruit user being affected are connected directly to seawater. If not the actual sea itself than a material that specifically recreates the properties of seawater.
If fresh water can affect him, then why doesn't Luffy keel over during the "training" in the baths at Alabasta?
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Robin's ability to grow an eye on Luffy's hand is another incident where Devil Fruit powers are not shut off by immersion in the sea. Or, in this case, the presence of seastone particulate, which is another suggestion that Paramecia types might be less vulnerable to the sea than Logias.
I never said that they are shut down. Just that the user loses strenght when he´s completely covered in water. In Skypiea it was only Luffy´s arm that was penetrating the sea cloud while the rest of him was perfectly safe. Robin wasn´t even exposed to the sea cloud herself so it never touched her.
Again the time argumente could be used here.On the other hand, prolonged contact with seastone seems to have a limit as to how weak it'll make the User as Robin is still able to move around despite her cuffs being on her for a really long time now. She's acts a bit tired, but not enough to collapse yet. Of course, she isn't supporting the weight of a full grown man like Ener was and hasn't absorbed a shot from Smoker's baton on top of the contact like Luffy did.
Well that´s is the placing argument I mentioned a while ago. When Luffy got in contact with the seastone, it touched some vital parts of him. His face touched the bars of Croc´s cage or his heart got touched by Smokers jutte. Enel was touched at his spine. These are all very vital points while Robin is just touching the seastone with her wrists. Not as closely as vital as the face, heart or the spine to make her feel weak but probably enough to disable her DF powers.
The easier conclusion is that fresh water simply does not affect Devil Fruit users like seawater does, which is supported by the fact that all known instances of a Devil Fruit user being affected are connected directly to seawater. If not the actual sea itself than a material that specifically recreates the properties of seawater.
If fresh water can affect him, then why doesn't Luffy keel over during the "training" in the baths at Alabasta?
I didn´t see hopping Luffy around there. Wasn´t he just laying back and making himself comfortable? Of course I can only speak out of my own personal experience but the last time I was taking a hot bath, I didn´t feel the strenght running through my body I usually feel when I´m pumping iron at the gym. I actually feel quite weak compared to that, but it doesn´t mean that it isn´t a pleasant feeling. Feeling weak isn´t equivalent to feeling pain.
However if freshwater didn´t effect DF users then how come Luffy and Smoker were hammers in the Rain Dinners water? Like Buc, I doubt that the Bananawani are swimming in seawater.
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BTW, if this discussion is pointless, why do you take part in? :hmm:
i don't really. i just butt in from time to time to see if you got anywhere in this water business or if things got complicated even more.
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Some quick points:
@Buccaneer:I doubt those crocs were in saltwater.
Australia has a species of Saltwater Crocs.
And how exactly do you think the disabling to swim thing works? Of course it has something to do with weaken your body. Just look back at chapter 19 where Buggy falls into the water. His body clearly can´t move. It doesn´t obey to his command. To me this is what happens when you lose strenght.
I think it's a mental thing really, because in Arlong park, Luffy WAS able to move his body…otherwise he couldn't have pinched his nose. My theory is, that Submersion in water, any kind, causes a mental lockdown of your swimming abilities, but not other kinds of movement.
Seastone, concentrated essence of the Sea, seems to take the sealing-off a bit further, disabling powers, and even weakening the user, upon contact, as far as we've seen. Some might say Smoker was affected in Crocodiles cage, but I just think he recognized the material, and didn't even bother trying to escape. He also had strenght enough to kick Luffy around. -
i don't really. i just butt in from time to time to see if you got anywhere in this water business or if things got complicated even more.
Ahh I see. Well then I guess it got complicated even more.
@The:
Some might say Smoker was affected in Crocodiles cage, but I just think he recognized the material, and didn't even bother trying to escape. He also had strenght enough to kick Luffy around.
Well that´s what I think too. He noticed it and didn´t bother try to escape because he knew it was useless. And since he didn´t touch any of the seastone his strenght wasn´t gone.
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Ahh I see. Well then I guess it got complicated even more.
isn't it ALWAYS what happens? :laugh:
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All the more reason for the water to not have an effect on Luffy or Mr. 3.
All instances where a Devil Fruit user has been weakened by contact with water have involved either seastone or the Sea itself.
Luffy would be screwed either way, but I dunno if Smoker is an anchor as well. He had to be saved, though.
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I doubt those crocs were in saltwater.
Crocodiles HAVE been known to cross small seas, you know…even saltwater ones
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Luffy would be screwed either way, but I dunno if Smoker is an anchor as well. He had to be saved, though.
Ah well. The water was sea water, mr 3 enveloped himself in wax in the crocodile's stomach, when he came out, he somehow floated to the surface in his wax ball or whatever and came out, found a table, and rehydrated on salt water. Thus explaining why Luffy and Smoker lost their strength. Problemo solvedo.
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uhm…waht? phlemingo, please explain more clearly! ><
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Ah well. The water was sea water, mr 3 enveloped himself in wax in the crocodile's stomach, when he came out, he somehow floated to the surface in his wax ball or whatever and came out, found a table, and rehydrated on salt water. Thus explaining why Luffy and Smoker lost their strength. Problemo solvedo.
Eh? the Doru Doru ball landed on the floor after Sanji began Kickin' Bananadiles, Mr. 3 came out, rehydrated, and was knocked unconcious by Sanji (after which he propably lands on the table). It's all shown in chapter 176.
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Since we are on the sea crocodile´s track right now, could anyone please riddle me how sea water comes to a city in the middle of a desert country?
And I expect some better answer then "Crocodile imported the water to be able to trap DF users".
isn't it ALWAYS what happens? :laugh:
Indeed it does. But at the very least it creates some discussion. 14 days without a new chapter have to be filled somehow.
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I don't think it matters if it's seawater or not, someone cursed by the devil's fruit can never swim and loses his powers underwater. Even if it's not blatantly stated that way or even if it said "the sea" when it was being explained, it's implied and totally obvious. If Luffy could still swim in regular water like rivers and such, he wouldn't be envious of others getting to swim and the whole, "You'll NEVER be able to learn to swim" thing from Shanks wouldn't really have meant much since he could still swim in normal water.
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Since we are on the sea crocodile´s track right now, could anyone please riddle me how sea water comes to a city in the middle of a desert country?
And I expect some better answer then "Crocodile imported the water to be able to trap DF users".
Croc tells us that the desert has underground rivers- rivers that could be connected to the sea. The same rivers could be used by the Bananadiles, because I bet carnivores of that size won't survive on a diet of occasional disgraced employees.
Besides, in order for the lake to exist, I think it'd need a continuous supply of water to outweigh the evaporation.But like theinvisibleworm I really don't think the water type matters- I just responded to your question 'cause I like a challenge .
An example is the sea clouds in skypea, which couldn't possibly contain salt.Apart from all that, I think the flooding of the room was just an evidence-destroying mechanism that would drown any prisoner in the process, seeing as how DF users would've already been weakened by the cage.
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@The:
An example is the sea clouds in skypea, which couldn't possibly contain salt.
why not? seas water has been blown to the sky for thousands of years hasn't it? and if land could stay up there so could salt no?
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All the water is in vapor form. Sure, there could be sand on the "Ground" clouds and Vearth, but it'd need to be on gas form to be found in the sea-clouds, and that'd require extreme temperatures…as far as I know. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think it's common for clouds to contain salt.
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not on our planet no. but that's not where One piece is right
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@The:
Croc tells us that the desert has underground rivers- rivers that could be connected to the sea. The same rivers could be used by the Bananadiles, because I bet carnivores of that size won't survive on a diet of occasional disgraced employees.
Besides, in order for the lake to exist, I think it'd need a continuous supply of water to outweigh the evaporation.The underground river isn´t much of an argument. Rivers that lead to the sea are usually freshwater and not saltwater rivers. Don´t see why it should be different here.
Besides, I don´t think that the lake itself needs a continuous water supply to outweight evaporation. It just needs to be protected from drying out. A person who was able to steal the rain of an entire country should be able to do that.
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But if Crocodile had used Dance Powder to generate a water supply for the lake, wouldn't Rainbase be suspected along with Alubarna, since the rest of the country died out? And since we can safely assume Crocodile founded Raindinners, it would have required an obscene amount of rain to create a lake on the site from scratch- and it wouldn't go unnoticed.
I can't argue against the underground rivers as I don't know enough on the matter, though.
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What's all this about saltwater causing the problems for Devil Fruit users? I thought the issue of this was settled long ago; seas emit an aura-like wavelength that, when in contact with a DF users, causes full body paralysis. It's not seawater, freshwater, or Skypiea white white water; it's something that's inherent with seas, or rather, any large body of water.
My own personal theory is that Seastone is responsible for the DF user body binds, not the ocean; in sediment form, seastone is scattered all across the sea bed, and emits the aforementioned wavelength. Seastone in a non-dissolved form, however, is extremely rare, hence, not many people are able to find or use samples.
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What's all this about saltwater causing the problems for Devil Fruit users? I thought the issue of this was settled long ago; seas emit an aura-like wavelength that, when in contact with a DF users, causes full body paralysis. It's not seawater, freshwater, or Skypiea white white water; it's something that's inherent with seas, or rather, any large body of water.
My own personal theory is that Seastone is responsible for the DF user body binds, not the ocean; in sediment form, seastone is scattered all across the sea bed, and emits the aforementioned wavelength. Seastone in a non-dissolved form, however, is extremely rare, hence, not many people are able to find or use samples.
This would explain a lot
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Like I said, the Devil Fruits olny takes your swimming abilities away and it has a connection to a seastone.
If a user is thrown in the water, he can still move but he can't swim due to the DF. Now let's stop this discussion, it's old and done with. I don't know why people make a discussion about it. It's not the water itself that make a person deadwight, it's SOMETHING in the water that weakens a person. If there is no seastone a person still can't swim but they don't become weak
Now where is that "Chapter 392 spoilers" thread?
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Ah well. The water was sea water, mr 3 enveloped himself in wax in the crocodile's stomach, when he came out, he somehow floated to the surface in his wax ball or whatever and came out, found a table, and rehydrated on salt water. Thus explaining why Luffy and Smoker lost their strength. Problemo solvedo.
But you see, there were bananadiles. Even for saltwater crocs, it isn't common for them to be in saltwater.
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I never said that they are shut down. Just that the user loses strenght when he´s completely covered in water. In Skypiea it was only Luffy´s arm that was penetrating the sea cloud while the rest of him was perfectly safe. Robin wasn´t even exposed to the sea cloud herself so it never touched her.
I should have phrased that better; this is just more proof that seastone does not actively shut down a Devil Fruit user's power. As such, Logia Powers must be dependent on the ability of the User to move.
These are all very vital points while Robin is just touching the seastone with her wrists. Not as closely as vital as the face, heart or the spine to make her feel weak but probably enough to disable her DF powers.
On the other hand, her cuffs have been on far longer than either of the other instances that we have seen to date.
Feeling weak isn´t equivalent to feeling pain.
Go back and read it again. During Luffy and Usopp's "training", Luffy is standing under what was essentially a waterfall with no problems.
However if freshwater didn´t effect DF users then how come Luffy and Smoker were hammers in the Rain Dinners water?
Luffy didn't know how to swim before he ate his Devil Fruit and I doubt that he ever even tried to learn how after he ate his. I can't say for Smoker, but it's hard to imagine that swimming would be considered a useful skill for a Logia type under any circumstances.
"You'll NEVER be able to learn to swim" thing from Shanks wouldn't really have meant much since he could still swim in normal water.
Why wouldn't it when his dream is an ocean based occupation?
His dream wasn't to become a world champion swimmer, it was to be a pirate and sail the world's seas like Shanks.
@The:
Croc tells us that the desert has underground rivers- rivers that could be connected to the sea.
So it's a saltwater oasis?
If so, there would be a town constructed in the desert instead of near the river, why exactly?
An example is the sea clouds in skypea, which couldn't possibly contain salt.
But they do contain seastone, which specifically mimics the properties of the sea. Not any form of water, seawater.
I thought the issue of this was settled long ago; seas emit an aura-like wavelength that, when in contact with a DF users, causes full body paralysis.
Obviously not the case; Buggy was barely above the sea with no ill effects, same for Aokiji. We have also seen Luffy recover from a near drowning numerous times while lying right next to the water.
If it emits an aura, then it's range is so short that the User has to be right in the water for it to work.
seastone is scattered all across the sea bed, and emits the aforementioned wavelength.
If it's wavelength, then why did Smoker seem perfectly fine while sitting across the room from bars made from it? Why did Luffy seem perfectly fine standing right next to it without any ill effects (except for one brief second) except when he was directly touching it?
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If it's wavelength, then why did Smoker seem perfectly fine while sitting across the room from bars made from it? Why did Luffy seem perfectly fine standing right next to it without any ill effects (except for one brief second) except when he was directly touching it?
I agree with Malintex on this, except for a few bits: I think that seastone is disolved in the water of the OP oceans the same way that salt is in ours. It doesn't need to emit a wavelength of some sort of radiation or anything because it's such a high concentration that just wading in it is like being smacked with Smoker's seastone-fork-thing.
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@joekido:
Like I said, the Devil Fruits olny takes your swimming abilities away and it has a connection to a seastone.
"Like I said" isn´t really a good argument to prove a point besides what your personal preference is.
I should have phrased that better; this is just more proof that seastone does not actively shut down a Devil Fruit user's power. As such, Logia Powers must be dependent on the ability of the User to move.
I´m confused now. Are we agreeing or not agreeing that it doesn´t shut the ability itself down, but the strenght of the user to use it? Because that´s my point.
On the other hand, her cuffs have been on far longer than either of the other instances that we have seen to date.
Well yes, but does it really negate that "vital point placement" argument I just made?
Go back and read it again. During Luffy and Usopp's "training", Luffy is standing under what was essentially a waterfall with no problems.
I know that, but for how long is he standing there with no problems? In the cage he was also yelling around with no problems only to lose power in the next panel. In the bath we don´t see Luffy in the next panels.
Luffy didn't know how to swim before he ate his Devil Fruit and I doubt that he ever even tried to learn how after he ate his. I can't say for Smoker, but it's hard to imagine that swimming would be considered a useful skill for a Logia type under any circumstances.
Very good point. Can´t counter it, nor would it make any sense to do so. The only question that appears is whether or not Smoker knew how to swim before he ate the DF. But that is utter speculation so let´s not go there.
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wow we're getting somewhere if Ivotas and ubig are starting to agree. :adore:
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Where is the "Chapter 392 spoiler" topic?
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Wow, even you I'm suprised to hear that from.
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@joekido:
Where is the "Chapter 392 spoiler" topic?
it's a secret.
ooshi78
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it's a secret.
ooshi78
We need a spoiler topic to know the location of the "Chapter 392 spoiler" topic
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I've got two weeks of withdrawl built up and I'm ready to burst! Bring on that badboy! I'm ready for ya' 392!