I completely agree with you, the pacing in the first 300 chapters AND the story was great, and not boring or groany.
Most Disappointing Thing in One Piece
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Luffy punches people, that's all he does.
Luffy only beat one East Blue villain with his hands.
Then there's Mr. 3. Luffy's got plenty of moves that don't involve his hands.
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Nami's tactical prowess shines during Doublefinger and HotoKoto (using the desert to create mirages, using Dials against the brothers), but she finishes Kalifa off with a giant thunderbolt from an upgraded weapon..
But to finish Kalifa with a giant thunderbolt, she had to use tactics…
Against Moriah, Luffy pretending to fall to take him by surprise and do some butt kicking was pretty clever, and the final against Oars (after Nightmare luffy) was a tactical team work.
Against Magellan, Luffy had thought to use Mr 3 armor to be able to fight against him, like he thought to use his blood to fight against Crocodile.
And at last, during the marineford war, Luffy passed through the 3 admirales thanks to a tactical move. (even if he failed in the end >_>)
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Hmmm, while I can somewhat agree on the fights getting less tactical and more about overpowering the enemy (although we got some nice stuff like Usopp vs Perona and new DF abilities that are very creative), I don't think OP has lost it's charm. One Piece is not only about fights, there's the world building, the characters, the adventure. . .and I don't think ANY of this has vanished. Sabaody Archipelago is beautifully drawn and imaginative. So is Fishman Island. Impel Down was magnific, and had both returning and new carismatic characters left and right.
So, while the fight departement (which, fromwhat I got, seems to be your only concern) was more creative before (although less spectacular, which seems what Oda is aiming for right now, with the monster trio unleashing super powerfull attacks to a gargantuan sized Kraken while thousands of meters underwater), I think the world of One Piece is as imaginative and original as ever. And there's nothing, nothing wrong with the pace. And we can fairly assume the melodrama is quite gone; we've got like 9 straight comedy chapters consecutively.
And again, Sanji's nosebleed was milions of miles away from being a fiasco, it was 100% Oda's style to do this. I understand people not liking it, but fiasco, it is not.
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In the end, I think what we were made to realize is that Luffy started out as a rookie and despite his achievements, there were more terrible, stronger forces awaiting at the New World. It's only fair that Luffy uses everything in his arsenal while adding to it as he grows in infamy and skills.
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@Monkey:
Against Magellan, Luffy had thought to use Mr 3 armor to be able to fight against him, like he thought to use his blood to fight against Crocodile.
yeah wanted to point that out as well, i still believe luffy will come up with some cool moves besides gears/haki
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Did I not mention Magellan as the exception in the OP? Ah, my bad. And you do have a point with all vs. Oz.
Don't get me wrong, One Piece is still One Piece. The worldbuilding is fantastic and remains so. And you've all come up with excellent points. But the battle sequences are just as important, and they've become lackluster. You can watch Luffy vs. Eneru and leave with a smile on your face and your mind blown. But… Luffy vs. Lucci has none of that, just a "Thank God, it's over" feeling.
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First and foremost, if this doesn't deserve its own thread, by all means please merge it with a more general thread. I was hoping to stir some discussion on the matter.
! I like One Piece. As much as the next guy. It's genuinely my favorite anime series out there. Now, One Piece is not perfect. Nothing is. Show of hands, who all groaned over the nosebleed fiasco in 609? Heh.
! From Chapter 1, One Piece was always a charming series, but it didn't really pick up steam until the Arlong Arc, many would argue. However, looking at the past few arcs, One Piece's charm seems to have tapered off some. But how so?
! Well, it's Luffy. Luffy's an aloof guy with a big heart and a lot of power, but over all, he's kind of dumb. Well, he's a little dumb, yes, but Luffy's fucking smart. Luffy's a tactical genius. This is evidenced as early as the Buggy arc, but really shines during the Kuro arc, and later, vs. Crocodile and vs. Eneru.
! Luffy, lacking water, used his own blood to combat Crocodile's weaknesses. Against Eneru, Luffy shut off his own brain to combat Eneru's Mantra, and used his own handicap as a weapon to finish Eneru off. Still think he's dumb?
! But unfortunately, we don't see much of that these days. Luffy vs. Blueno was probably Luffy's last big example of his genius battle style, but also the first instance of things going south. I speak of the Gears.
! Now Gear Second and Third are quite clever. I mean, these are shining examples of Luffy's genius at its best. But they've become all purpose shit. Luffy beat Blueno and Lucci with Gear Second. Beat Oz with a one-time powerup + Gear Gigantos, and he's been using nothing but Gears and Haki ever since. Gone are the days of Gum-Gum Daze and Using Arlong's teeth against him. All that remains is "uh oh, bad guy, let's Gear up!"
! To be fair, ever since CP9, One Piece has been a bit melodramatic and has definitely called for Luffy to get a little serious. That's understandable, but how is this different than Arlong threatening to kill everyone on the island? How is it different than playing around with Mr. 3 when his three closest friends are slowly being killed? How is it different when every last one of his friends are about to be killed when battling Crocodile and Eneru? Sure, the Ace situation was far more urgent, and rightly so, perhaps Luffy's judgment was cloudy because of the circumstances.
! That's why for me, Fishman Island is do or die. I really want to see Luffy being a genius again. I'll be beyond upset if he goes against the arc villain and beats him with Haki and Gears. No, rather, I'll be upset if he doesn't get creative with the application. Luffy's an adaptable fighter. I don't want him to just overpower the enemy with asspulls. Fishman Island has tons of opportunity for creativity. I really, really hope Oda puts it to use.To sum up my argument, Luffy's fights have always been a huge selling point for One Piece. At the end of the day, nothing's more satisfying than Luffy beating the pulp out of the bad guys. But is it really all that satisfying when he just overpowers them with the latest SSJ? That's why I strongly feel that East Blue to Skypiea is significantly better than CP9-Marineford. Oda may yet prove me wrong, but it depends on how Luffy performs in the coming Arcs.
So let's stir some discussion. What do you feel about the matter? I really hope you can prove my stance wrong.
Once again, if this doesn't deserve its own thread, feel free to move it.
So instead of luffy developing and growing stronger you want him to luck sack his way through victories. Gee thanks for the input buddy. Do us all a favor and the next time you have a thought keep it to yourself.
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So instead of luffy developing and growing stronger you want him to luck sack his way through victories. Gee thanks for the input buddy. Do us all a favor and the next time you have a thought keep it to yourself.
Irony.
Did you even read his post? That's not at all what he said. He said that at the beginning of the series Luffy's fighting ability came from using his brain instead of just being super-powerful like. If anything, the Nightmare Luffy power-up would be more luck than anything Kitsune said. But I can see where you're coming from, Kitsune did overlook a bunch of stuff, like that time Zoro killed Mihawk during the timeskip.
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The gears and Haki will be there from now and until the end of the series, it became a part that he need to use to overcome
his opponents. Since the Timeskip there wasn't anyone how offered any kind of threat to Luffy for him to be creative and change his style, but
be sure that there will be some opponents who will drive him to the point where haki won't be enough for him and then
he'll have to come up with new stuff and use some tactics to overcome them.
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I can definitely agree with Inferno's sentiments. When Luffy was fighting Blueno and performed Gear Second for the first time, he made that little speech about how this was a power that he came up with because he didn't want to lose anyone, so that he could protect everyone, and in most of the situations he used it in, that followed through. He was fighting very powerful adversaries, and he needed as much strength as he could muster.
Now though, we have him using it to wipe out some thugs that he should have no problem handling normally, that really didn't pose any significant threat to his crew. It's not very interesting visually, and if all of Luffy's main fights are going to be decided through who has the stronger Ambition, well, I'm going to be upset. It was fun seeing Luffy going into some of these conflicts as the underdog and finding a way to triumph despite that. Now, I do have every faith in Oda that he will continue to write and draw visually interesting and entertaining battles and I know that the fights aren't the whole point of the story, but if Gears and Ambition become the end-all-be-all, that will be a sorry loss for the series.
I just think that we've gotten to the point where the power levels are getting so high that it's getting tougher and tougher to rely on exploits and more on brute force, and Ambition unfortunately does lend towards that.
And thank you for bringing up Nightmare Luffy, because that bugged the hell out of me too.
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Well, while I can sympathize with and even agree with some of the thoughts here, at the same time I think Oda has demonstrated time and again he is a writer who likes to take his slow sweet time to develop his story–the type of writer, in other words, for whom this medium is ideal. He started telling us that there was going to be a need for Luffy to powerup way back during the fight against Enel--if he hadn't been rubber he would have lost. That theme was been carried through to the war arc, and now Oda is taking his slow sweet time to show us what the New World will bring to the crew.
While I too, agree that we haven't seen Luffy's unique brand of genius in some time, I think the slow chain of events that lead to his fall at Marineford had something to do with it. A desperate mind does not think clearly, and if you look at some of those panels of Luffy's face in the war, he was most definately desperate and not thinking at his best. Imho all that mental stress and strain--the gradual decrease in his absolute confidence in himself---started in earnest in the CP9 when he Luffy sent Franky to save Robin in his place while he stayed behind to fight Lucci. It feels as if this was all planned all along, and a confident hand is guiding the helm.
It is very much in Oda's style, then, to now take his slow sweet time to reveal all the changes both the power-ups and the war will bring to the world of One Piece.
All that to say that I, too, think it's too early truly judge if the charm is gone for good yet, or even in the next few months, lol. Keep the faith KI.
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So instead of luffy developing and growing stronger you want him to luck sack his way through victories. Gee thanks for the input buddy. Do us all a favor and the next time you have a thought keep it to yourself.
Zoro stabbed Mihawk in the back during the timeskip.
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After reading through some of this thread I realized One Piece isn't that great of a series. In fact it seems kinda mediocre. Incredibly formulaic, gets more uncreative, a lot of the fights are won with asspulls, there are long instances spent away from the plot, not all characters get enough spotlight, some of the flashbacks are weak, pacing can be pretty terrible. I don't know. Maybe it's because I've expanded my anime and manga horizons lately or I'm a little too negative right now because I just finished watching Evangelion.
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After reading through some of this thread I realized One Piece isn't that great of a series. In fact it seems kinda mediocre. Incredibly formulaic, gets more uncreative, a lot of the fights are won with asspulls, there are long instances spent away from the plot, not all characters get enough spotlight, some of the flashbacks are weak, pacing can be pretty terrible. I don't know. Maybe it's because I've expanded my anime and manga horizons lately or I'm a little too negative right now because I just finished watching Evangelion.
Your post sounds like you don't even read the series. You needed to read this thread to form your opinion which is pretty funny really.
lol.. expanded my horizons.
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Your post sounds like you don't even read the series. You needed to read this thread to form your opinion which is pretty funny really.
lol.. expanded my horizons.
You think so? Should a series really take 70 chapters to get truly interesting?
Should Zoro's power-ups really remain unexplained and out of nowhere for so long? This is just my opinion, though. -
You think so? Should a series really take 70 chapters to get truly interesting?
Should Zoro's power-ups really remain unexplained and out of nowhere for so long? This is just my opinion, though.The thing gets interesting shortly after Chapter 1 begins when Luffy punches out a sea serpent.
Zoro's power-ups can be explained as a mixture of some serious training and Haki.
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I agree with buster call.
I think Oda will gradually show off Luffy's new (and hopefully creative) haki abilities gained,probably over the course of this Fishman island arc. -
@Cyan:
The thing gets interesting shortly after Chapter 1 begins when Luffy punches out a sea serpent.
Zoro's power-ups can be explained as a mixture of some serious training and Haki.
I hate the haki excuse for everything. Ever since Amazon Lily most of the excuses for everything is haki.
Should've thought of the training, though. Good point.I honestly thought everything up to Bartie was just okay or downright terrible, at least I do right now, after re-watching it a little while ago.
oh well, each to their own I suppose. Maybe I shouldn't be so harsh because after it got good it at least has remained decent up to now despite all the gripes I have with it. That's a pretty big achievement for a long-running series.
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The East Blue Saga was awesome.
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Again, I still don't get One Piece's pace issues. What's wrong with OP's pace?
You know what's a terrible pace? Bleach. One Piece also has a terrible pace? Really?
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Okay, I'm 100 pages late, so I'm sure someone has said it earlier, but even though I personally enjoy open-ended deaths like Bellamy's, but the fact Pell did not die in Alabasta just irritates me to no end.
He carried the bomb high enough so that no one else would have been killed in the blast, but he was right there in the kill-zone. A worthy sacrifice in my books. -
Did I not mention Magellan as the exception in the OP? Ah, my bad. And you do have a point with all vs. Oz.
Don't get me wrong, One Piece is still One Piece. The worldbuilding is fantastic and remains so. And you've all come up with excellent points. But the battle sequences are just as important, and they've become lackluster. You can watch Luffy vs. Eneru and leave with a smile on your face and your mind blown. But… Luffy vs. Lucci has none of that, just a "Thank God, it's over" feeling.
Luffy vs. Lucci was actually a fight. Eneru vs. Luffy was Eneru running away like a puss after Luffy easily countered whatever tactic he tried using. Luffy punching a wall so his hands would bounce off randomly hardly blew my mind. OP would be pretty boring if every fight was just Luffy countering some simple tactic then that getting destroyed by Luffy until pulling out another trick. Lucci was a villain who Luffy had to face on completely equal terms and pull out everything that he had.
Kizuchan
After reading through some of this thread I realized One Piece isn't that great of a series. In fact it seems kinda mediocre. Incredibly formulaic, gets more uncreative, a lot of the fights are won with asspulls, there are long instances spent away from the plot, not all characters get enough spotlight, some of the flashbacks are weak, pacing can be pretty terrible. I don't know. Maybe it's because I've expanded my anime and manga horizons lately or I'm a little too negative right now because I just finished watching Evangelion.
The series is over 600 chapters long. You base your opinion on the collective minor issues individuals have had during such a long run. That makes complete and total sense. Reading the thread I see plenty of people disagreeing with some complaints, realizing their complaints are minor in the grand scheme of things, and all the faults most agree on(or can at least understand while others dislike something) don't add up to very many at all. Unlike some other series that have you scratching your head, bored, or frustrated on a weekly basis.
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Okay, I'm 100 pages late, so I'm sure someone has said it earlier, but even though I personally enjoy open-ended deaths like Bellamy's, but the fact Pell did not die in Alabasta just irritates me to no end.
He carried the bomb high enough so that no one else would have been killed in the blast, but he was right there in the kill-zone. A worthy sacrifice in my books.There were civilians. He's a mighty warrior.
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I can definitely agree with Inferno's sentiments. When Luffy was fighting Blueno and performed Gear Second for the first time, he made that little speech about how this was a power that he came up with because he didn't want to lose anyone, so that he could protect everyone, and in most of the situations he used it in, that followed through. He was fighting very powerful adversaries, and he needed as much strength as he could muster.
Now though, we have him using it to wipe out some thugs that he should have no problem handling normally, that really didn't pose any significant threat to his crew. It's not very interesting visually, and if all of Luffy's main fights are going to be decided through who has the stronger Ambition, well, I'm going to be upset. It was fun seeing Luffy going into some of these conflicts as the underdog and finding a way to triumph despite that. Now, I do have every faith in Oda that he will continue to write and draw visually interesting and entertaining battles and I know that the fights aren't the whole point of the story, but if Gears and Ambition become the end-all-be-all, that will be a sorry loss for the series.
I just think that we've gotten to the point where the power levels are getting so high that it's getting tougher and tougher to rely on exploits and more on brute force, and Ambition unfortunately does lend towards that.
And thank you for bringing up Nightmare Luffy, because that bugged the hell out of me too.
Donflamingo and Magellan say whats up. Pretty sure there are plenty of DF users in the NW who are experienced dealing with haki users as adding to that duo. We shouldn't have to worry about not tricky fights at all.
On Gears and Haki I can't wait to see a Vulcanized Giganto Jet Shell. An accelerated giant black ball of death smacking into Teach's frame sounds is going to be amazing to see.
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Meh, I don't agree. As much as Luffy genius came into play early on, adding "roadblock" battles before the timeskip was well needed(the PX-series, Magellan, the war). Luffy and his entire crew needed a harsh reality of what the New World has to offer before even entering it. I'm sure throwing big attacks and using ambition isn't going to be the main trump card in future fights… Not that I read the series for the fights anyway.
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@ Kitsune Inferno
I understand where you are coming from it is really quite common for people to always like the old stuff better then the new stuff.
It doesn't matter how much planing or work goes into storytelling or exposition or even pace, people when they get something new for the first time they embrace it and enjoy that feeling of newness. But then as it progresses and the storyline follows its intended direction people feel it isn't going the way they want it to - or don't like the change - or just plain get sick of something.From TV series to books it can be hard to see something grow up and change.
One Piece has been running 10 years now - all those who have caught up with 10 years of information now have to wait each week. It is unlikely those who found one piece in the last 2 years will still be following in the next 2 years.
Here is the thing you need to ask yourself.
How do you see Luffy becoming the Pirate King?
Haki isn't some arsepull - it's been referenced a lot and there is questionable situations in the manga that may have indicated early Haki use. The game didn't suddenly change there was little to no chance of Luffy continuing without someway to legitamately combat Logias.
No amount of Genius is going to help Luffy or anyone else in the crew combat Magma or Light.I can see where your complaint is coming from but I personally don't feel the same. I am enjoying the series now even more but that could also be because I joined a lot later then some around the Water 7 arc. One Piece is just as much fun to me now as it was back then.
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Everything since Enies Lobby is not as good as before.
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@Aegir:
Everything since Enies Lobby is not as good as before.
Personal Opinion =/= Fact.
It's not all bad though I actually think that things will pick up in the way the more experienced readers will appreciate in the New World.
New Islands - New adversaries - New Crewmate :ninja:
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@Aegir:
Everything since Enies Lobby is not as good as before.
You are too nostalgic.
Otherwise. The story hasnt settled since then, but is that a good or a bad thing. The world got small with enies lobby and I hope he makes it big again with the timeskip. But you as a person should be aware of these statements, nothing is better than it is.Fight scenes: They have always been tedious. I am a two chapter fight. One real chapter fight.
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@Aegir:
Everything since Enies Lobby is not as good as before.
After rereading Skypeia,East Blue and Baroque Works sagas respectively, I sort of felt the same way. Then I thought of why OP seemed a little off from those previous sagas and I realized that the War at the Summit saga was supposed to be like that. It was supposed to be different. A major war was being set-up the moment Ace caught up w/ Blackbeard. That saga changed the landscape of OP. Now that specific saga is done with, I'm expecting this current saga(More involved w/ Fishmen) to be similar to the previous sagas(Baroque Works, East Blue, Skypeia and Enies Lobby).
To a degree, I feel that Thriller Bark could have been more entertaining overall had it been given more length but it served its purpose: As one of the early set-ups for the eventual climax of the saga, the Marineford arc. So I see nothing to be disappointed in OP(with regards to everything post-Enies Lobby) and I feel that Thriller Bark, Sabaody Archipelago, Amazon Lily, Impel Down and Marineford arcs respectively delivered and I applaud Oda for introducing something that was different(Referring to the entire War at the Summit saga) from OP's previous sagas and put his typical style in it. (Mix of adventure, comedy,drama)
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@Cymelion: That's hardly the case. I started reading One Piece during the Thriller Bark arc.
And there's no reason WHY Luffy can't still be the tactical genius he was known to be. Logia are pretty much invincible, yet he beat TWO of them without Haki by exploiting weaknesses.
What I'm saying is, I can excuse the War arc because of the circumstances, but Luffy just mindlessly overpowering future enemies with Gears and Haxi would get old fast, unless things go back to normal.
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And there's no reason WHY Luffy can't still be the tactical genius he was known to be.
He still is. I don't know why you can't see it. Champion Luffy, Buggy substitution, Stamp Gatling using a Ship Mast. Still good old Luffy.
Logia are pretty much invincible, yet he beat TWO of them without Haki by exploiting weaknesses.
It would have been absolutely retarded if Luffy kept beating Logia by bypassing their elemental defense with weakness after weakness every goddamn time. Haki was the best solution as among everything else it struck down the notion that Logia are invincible.
What I'm saying is, I can excuse the War arc because of the circumstances, but Luffy just mindlessly overpowering future enemies with Gears and Haxi would get old fast, unless things go back to normal.
The problem isn't that Luffy's fight's are no longer creative, the problem is that you just don't like gears or Haki and by that notion you'll ignore any creative combos using them too.
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And there's no reason WHY Luffy can't still be the tactical genius he was known to be. Logia are pretty much invincible, yet he beat TWO of them without Haki by exploiting weaknesses.
Yeah that's why I was a bit disapointed when we learnt that haki allowed people to hurt logias. I liked the "we have to found this logia guy's weakness" thing >_>
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Pouring water onto Crocodile or being immune to lightning because he's made of rubber weren't too hard for Luffy…
Fighting guys like Akainu, Kizaru or Aokiji are completely different things.
Don't expect too much... -
You guys are dissapointed to easily, isn't that kinda boring? I mean. I like pretty much everything, and I'm happy that way. Liking is funnier than not liking, that's just the way it is.
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Pouring water onto Crocodile or being immune to lightning because he's made of rubber weren't too hard for Luffy…
Fighting guys like Akainu, Kizaru or Aokiji are completely different things.
Don't expect too much...Pretty much this.
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@Cymelion: That's hardly the case. I started reading One Piece during the Thriller Bark arc.
Well then we're polar opposites in this case as I am still having fun reading it - and considering the cost of reading it I can honestly say I am being spoiled as to the value. I am waiting for larger boxsets to become available in Australia.
And there's no reason WHY Luffy can't still be the tactical genius he was known to be. Logia are pretty much invincible, yet he beat TWO of them without Haki by exploiting weaknesses.
Yes he beat a Sand based logia - and a Lightning based one that his Fruit was the only weakness for.
Can you honestly come up with ANY viable stratagy for fighting someone who is made up of light?
Not being facetious I really would like to see any alternative option to fighting a light based Logia, complete fan fiction man go for your life - honestly other then using Seastone or Blackbeard's fruit I do not see any way his genius could be used to defeat light based Logia - or Magma - or Smoke. I don't mean avoid attacks or anything but actually defeat them.What I'm saying is, I can excuse the War arc because of the circumstances, but Luffy just mindlessly overpowering future enemies with Gears and Haxi would get old fast, unless things go back to normal.
I am certain that Oda is aware that giving Luffy god mode will not improve his storyline. I would say anyone in the NW would have to have unlocked Haki for themselves and even if they do not haki you have to get close to hit them.
Luffy is one of the few people who has ranged attacks that are physical so there will still be his stretching and bizarre moves. Just right now he vastly overpowers the entry area of the Grandline.
Luffy could have made it past paradise pre-time skip sure but the battles would have been toned down to what they can be now.And seriously looking for weaknesses would get old - why is only Luffy able to find these weaknesses? I mean there are far more intelligent people out there surely they would have been able to find the weaknesses too. I'll admit I was dissapointed that Robin was taken down so easily by Croc when she knew his weakness.
Just having Haki does not mean the fights are going to get easier - it means they are going to be larger battles with more time for Luffy to look for new advantages.
Honestly if Kaido can fight on par with Shanks - I don't see Luffy just haxing that battle - I see them in a world of hurt for the majority of the crew just not defeat. -
@Monkey:
Yeah that's why I was a bit disapointed when we learnt that haki allowed people to hurt logias. I liked the "we have to found this logia guy's weakness" thing >_>
Eventually it would have gotten stupid. Some people simply do not have practical weaknesses to exploit. It wasn't cool seeing people bring up the most contrived and convoluted scenarios to beat certain opponents. Kizaru being hurt by reflective edges, mirrors, or being weakened by the night or even loosing his sunglasses.
Aokiji being defeated because G2 is hot enough to touch him, Luffy wearing a flamethrower, or even tossing a bag of salt at his ass like how Luffy used flower to make Gesparde in the 4th/5th tangible.
Akainu is defeated because their battle happens to take place near containers of liquid nitrogen or Luffy injures himself to push Akainu into the ocean.
Luffy fights Smoker by constantly inhaling then exhaling to produce gusts(like when he does storm) so Smoker has to remain solid briefly or get blown away. Luffy then attacks in that brief window.
Dragon….....can't even make something up vs. wind but do you see how ridiculous constantly finding a winning strategy or weakness vs. Logias would have become? How lame is it that Luffy would always have had his blunt damage resistance that nobody could ever exploit?
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Eventually it would have gotten stupid. Some people simply do not have practical weaknesses to exploit.
And your proof is ?
It wasn't cool seeing people bring up the most contrived and convoluted scenarios to beat certain opponents.
I admit, that I don't read a lot of theories written here, but finding a way, to beat a logia is not worse than for exemple trying to find who could be the next crewmate.
Dragon….....can't even make something up vs. wind
Yeah sure…but for now, we can't be sure that Dragon has some devil fruit power so to that he's a logia....
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You're missing the point. That it would be some really stupid convoluted shit that all Logia are invincible if not for that one weakness they happen to have to exploit.
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@Monkey:
And your proof is ?
The failure of countless series that try this and people end up bored with it.
It's not much fun - oh look they are X logia so they will need X element or conditions to beat them.Now it is oh look they are X Logia - Punch to the face, battle scene where the Logia have to come up with ways to battle Luffy not just /noclip his blows.
I admit, that I don't read a lot of theories written here, but finding a way, to beat a logia is not worse than for exemple trying to find who could be the next crewmate.
It is worse it becomes a constant annoyance instead of a flow of battle or build up - everything is just Luffy avoiding blows till he figures out the weakness and the villian just so happens to have surrounded themselves with the very weakness substance. It's stuff from the 1980's cartoons and even then kids got bored of it after 3 seasons.
Yeah sure…but for now, we can't be sure that Dragon has some devil fruit power so to that he's a logia....
I'll pay that - although it's fairly certain he does have an ability.
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@Monkey:
And your proof is ?
Read the rest of the post and you'll see. Oda introducing haki is proof enough that he himself realizes there aren't practical ways to deal with certain abilities.
I admit, that I don't read a lot of theories written here, but finding a way, to beat a logia is not worse than for exemple trying to find who could be the next crewmate.
What? My point was not that its lame when people come up with stupid theories. Me listing theories was me pointing out the kind of terrible writing Oda would have to do in order to make a fight work again and again.
Yeah sure…but for now, we can't be sure that Dragon has some devil fruit power so to that he's a logia....
Dragon being a wind logia or not was not the point.
Some logia's don't have simple logical ways to deal with them. Wetting sand, hardening mud, dousing fire, evaporating water, eroding rock, nullifying electricity are easy ways to exploit an elemental.
Light, Dark Matter, Wind, Lava, Metal, Steam, do not have simple practical or even possible ways to be exploited in battle. Sure you could incinerate, evaporate, or erode a metal, earth, or water Logia. However Oda would have to produce a very contrived scenario in order for Luffy or someone else to actually accomplish these tasks. Latter two would take extreme heat while Earth isn't being made into flesh by something as simple bloody fists. How do you deal with Wind or Gravity?
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@Thousand:
It would have been absolutely retarded if Luffy kept beating Logia by bypassing their elemental defense with weakness after weakness every goddamn time. \
That's all Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is about.
One Piece is not JJBA though. -
@Thousand:
You're missing the point. That it would be some really stupid convoluted shit that all Logia are invincible if not for that one weakness they happen to have to exploit.
yeah agree with this.. at first the logia user will super strong and then when their weakness is discovered by their opponent suddenly they will so weak and useless.. they can even dodge an attack and trade blow.. fighting scene like that is boring and lame.
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Read the rest of the post and you'll see. Oda introducing haki is proof enough that he himself realizes there aren't practical ways to deal with certain abilities.
By this, you mean, some logia doesn't have any weakness, (for exemple nothing can hurt a magma man) or his weakness are so, that it's impossible to have with you that so called weakness ? (if it's the latter, then I agree with you).
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he himself realizes there aren't practical ways to deal with certain abilities.
and the problem with this is. . .?
Haki has been hinted at starting from the very first chapter and we have seen it quite a few times after that. Luffy has gotten to a point that he will meet guys so strong that they can indeed not be defeated by normal means and that makes it even more interesting because if Luffy can defeat these guys he'll belong to the top.
If you mean to say that Oda had to introduce Haki because along the line he realized that some abilities are undefeatable than I think you are wrong because Haki is not a means to an end and has been introduced immediately, be it unnamed, if you don't mean this than: never mind.