What do you think of the way women are portrayed in OP?

SingingThroughTheStorm

The Nakamates thread is getting side tracked, so this needs a separate thread.

Do you like the way women are in OP? Quite a few complaints have been popping up on here.

My opinion. I am okay with their strength. Everyone acts like women need to be able to take on Godzilla. I was actually worried Robin was too strong at the beginning. Couldn't she just snap everyone's necks at night? Wouldn't CP9 be a breeze for her to beat? I am not crazy for the clothing. I think the mini skirts that would be 4-6 inches long in reality are pretty pointless, especially from a fighting stand point. I think that it was a good switch though, lose a shirt for some pants. The CP9 clothing for Nami seemed the worse, but oh well.

What is everyone's opinions on the women in OP.

JERK DISEASE

The clothing doesn't bother me usually. One Piece has such exaggerated everything that big secondary sexual things fits.
The guys are all rippling with muscle and often forget to button up shirts. I mean what is Franky if not a cartoon of male physical libido?

The roles are weak, but for a shonen it's honestly not so bad. Or should I say japanese comic, because shojo can be just as awful (worse even).

Japan is a very patriarchal country, like most of the East Asian cultures. So I think in the context of his society, writing for a boy's silly comic, Oda does pretty fine. He's no Katsuhiro Otomo maybe but few westerners are either.

Compare him to Kishimoto with Naruto? And it's an intense improvement.

SingingThroughTheStorm

You never really saw Luffy with muscles until a fight.
Is it because he is rubber? Hahaha.

You are right about the way everyone is portrayed. Once the women stop buttoning up, I think the show just went a little farther. Haha

Ne0

Talking about Naruto, Sakura got the worst sort of "improvement", if it can be called that.

Johnny B. Decent

Eh, he could admittedly be better with them, although at least there's one female Yonkou & Shichibukai, but compared to Naruto & Bleach, it's no contest.

SingingThroughTheStorm

And one of the supernovas, she also kicked BlackBeard.

Malintex_Terek

The fanservice bothers me only because it's an increase from what it was in East Blue and early Arabasta. When Nami and Vivi's belly-dancing costumes and the Happiness Punch were the extremes of OP fanservice,

Oda established early on that he can write a good story independent of stupid stuff like fanservice to sustain interest. Fanservice only handicaps most authors with a story to tell anyway (Akamatsu?). So when the fanservice went on the increase with CP9, it really limited his freedom because he's almost obligated to include some fanservice shots in each chapter. Each shot comes at the expense of something else he could be showing. Remember how he couldn't include Daddy the Father in East Blue because of chapter/panel limitations?

I don't know what brought about this change in Oda's approach, but the worst case scenario is the Jump editors pressured him, and that Oda of all people ended up submitting to them makes me very angry. It's probably not a big deal to him however he arrived at the change, nor to the Japanese readers.

Otherwise, what JERK DISEASE said.

AlmostLegendary

It could be worse if you ever seen To aru Majustu No index or Bakuman or black cat. They literrally treat the women like shit. In some of them the main character just blatantly smacks the bull shit out of them. In bakuman the moms opinion is so meaningless.

This is what I get for only reading the title and not the actually post…oh well the fan service isn't nearly as bad as some other shows.

Gekko135

The girls look fine. JD put it just fine with his comment about Franky.

The women in One Piece (specifically the lead two females) are independent and have their own goals and ambitions to be aboard the ship. Oda leaving romance as a very very minor point (or just nonexistent), was a great choice as I'm sure we'd all prefer the bossy, tough Nami over some cliche harem girl who's only purpose is to cling to the protagonist.

SingingThroughTheStorm

See currently I am only watching One Piece. So I have no clue what Bakuman and Naruto do. By fanservice, you are referring to them putting in sexual themes because the majority of readers are teenage males, right?

I think the belly dancer outfit actually made sense. Sanji was picking them out. They actually were less revealing than other articles of clothing she has worn. Happiness punch does seem to go a little far. Nami is portrayed a little more as a stripper with these scenes.

Kishido

Well maybe they are dressed like whores but to be honest. Go in the clubs and you see young women dressed like this left and right. Seriously…

More important is... Compared to other mangas the women have a much bigger role and are able to take care of themselves. Oda is giving them a lot of screentime and I like it.

SingingThroughTheStorm

The dressing isn't the main think that portrays them as cheap. I think it is mainly the charging to see her nude. I am glad there is no romance though. And the women are strong enough. Robin would be able to beat sanji.

Kishido

Dunno I can handle it. If some boys are effected by it that much or some are distracted by that that much it isn't a problem for me.

Point is… Look out of the window at summer or just look regulat TV or music videos. You can see women and girls behaving and dressing like sluts left and right. And the marketing is even potraying them like that a bit. Sex seels even more these days.

And seriously... In the homeland of Hentai and the mini-skirt school-uniform dressed a girls it isn't that suprising and I bet for the japanese it isn't that much of problem.

But that's just my point. Maybe someone like Aohige could give us a better insight in that

JERK DISEASE

What little I've seen of Bakuman's female characters was pretty fucking awful.

AlmostLegendary

If you have a problem with fan service there's shows that are a lot worse….. some which are border line hentai. However, you have to remember the target audience for mangas are teen males and teen males likes boobies.

SingingThroughTheStorm

I am okay with the current writing. I know other shows go farther.

Louis cypher

@KiShiDo:

You can see women and girls behaving and dressing like sluts left and right.

Now this irritates me, you say women are behaving like sluts just for behaving the same way men have for however many thousands of years. In at least a few countries it's a new age man, women can do what they like rather than what they are told.

And the marketing is even potraying them like that a bit. Sex seels even more these days.

That… is kind of a huge understatement.

The way Oda portrays women doesn't bother me much, but then again I don't pay much attention or think about these things much.

@AlmostLegendary:

If you have a problem with fan service there's shows that are a lot worse….. some which are border line hentai. However, you have to remember the target audience for mangas are teen males and teen males likes boobies.

be more accurate, you should say most teen males.

AlmostLegendary

@Louis:

Now this irritates me, you say women are behaving like sluts just for behaving the same way men have for however many thousands of years. In at least a few countries it's a new age man, women can do what they like rather than what they are told.

That… is kind of a huge understatement.

The way Oda portrays women doesn't bother me much, but then again I don't pay much attention or think about these things much.

be more accurate, you should say most teen males.

It's a double standard get over it.

I should prob have said that but oh wellz. If you a teen male and you don't like boobies….... yeah there's no point in going into that discussion.

Oksa

One Piece is a manga for boys, of course women have to look like they do. Or like Oda himself said: 'I'm a goddamn shonen manga-ka! A MAN'S DREAM!! NEVER ENDS!!!'

What bothers me most is how their waists can be so narrow, but these kind of things are just part of Oda's style, so it's not a big deal.

SingingThroughTheStorm

The waist is even odder. At some points Nami looks like Sanji round house kicked her mid section. Or something caused her stomach to be crushed.

Reyairia

@SingingThroughTheStorm:

See currently I am only watching One Piece. So I have no clue what Bakuman and Naruto do.

NARUTO avoids the skimpy outfits but makes women pretty much weak and useless. They're either healers or fodder or both. Also their character development completely depends on what character they happen to be crushing on and how they react to them.

I wish Oda would tone down the boob enlargement but other than that I'm pretty okay with it. It's mostly the anime that makes things worse anyway.

gallowsx

i think females in op have a good exposure. there's a Yonku, a shicib, one of the supernovas, one high ranking marine…

and of course, nami/robin... all of them have their own characters, all have realistic characters.

to the fan service... i agree, sometimes a bit too much (like nami/kalifa fight) but there u are... compared to naruto... well naruto's females are just bystanders cliched individuals who are in love with a character and just fight for others + love.

none of them have their own ideals etc....

bluntzilla

Really the only problem I have is the body type is exactly the same and a bit too oversexualized. Generally there are a good deal of "ugly" women in One Piece that have really strong character designs. But there's very little variety in how the young women look. Most of the young men have pretty similar body types, but they look a deal bit more varied, and there's a lot more strong character designs with strange shapes coming in from the male department. I think Amazon Lilly did an okay job of changing up the way Oda does women, though the ridiculously thin waistline and absolutely hilariously large breasts are like… ehh...

Essentially it's a bit less offensive to me when you realize a lot of the males are exaggerated and most of them have the same kine of oval-tube looking torsos as well, but the girls are definitely moreso out of place looking than the guys. I realize that it's a comic so basically the character designs aren't going to be entirely based on reality, and too many weird looking people would also be a huge pain to draw. But the difference between Sanji and Zoro is pretty stark, The women, not so much.@JERK:

Compare him to Kishimoto with Naruto? And it's an intense improvement.

TBH I think the visual designs from Kishi are generally better with women. The writing of course… not so much.

SingingThroughTheStorm

Your avatar seems to express the Nami Kalifa fight. I did get a kick when Nami stated in the anime, "Wow, how sexy, I would be happy if she was my secretary. WAIT!!! I am not an Ossan!" Although the whole stroking thing did go a little overboard.

Halfmetal-lich

Remember that it's a comic for 14 year old boys.

And if your upset about chest size in this manga, Fairy Tail would like some words with you. There's fanservice taken too far…

Mox

The fanservice seems obligatory for the genre. Well, for the target audience, too - it's not like western superhero comics are any better. What I don't really get is the Woshu Woshu no Mi. That's so weirdly specific and gender-role-associated. Flower, soap, smooth, weight, and love powers are iffy to me for the same reason, but to a lesser degree.

Is there a name for this girls-get-girly-powers trope?

bluntzilla

@Halfmetal-lich:

Remember that it's a comic for 14 year old boys.

And if your upset about chest size in this manga, Fairy Tail would like some words with you. There's fanservice taken too far…

Man this cake sure has a lot of sugar in it, but it's okay when you compare it to this heaping bowl of sugar covered caramel.

SingingThroughTheStorm

I think one of the oddest moments in the anime was Robin grabbing Franky's nuts. I liked the theory behind him covering up his emotions by using the nut grabbing as an example.

Luffy, "Robin!!! Stop, I want him still to be a man when he gets on the ship."

JERK DISEASE

@bluntzilla:

Really the only problem I have is the body type is exactly the same and a bit too oversexualized. Generally there are a good deal of "ugly" women in One Piece that have really strong character designs. But there's very little variety in how the young women look. Most of the young men have pretty similar body types, but they look a deal bit more varied, and there's a lot more strong character designs with strange shapes coming in from the male department. I think Amazon Lilly did an okay job of changing up the way Oda does women, though the ridiculously thin waistline and absolutely hilariously large breasts are like… ehh...

Essentially it's a bit less offensive to me when you realize a lot of the males are exaggerated and most of them have the same kine of oval-tube looking torsos as well, but the girls are definitely moreso out of place looking than the guys. I realize that it's a comic so basically the character designs aren't going to be entirely based on reality, and too many weird looking people would also be a huge pain to draw. But the difference between Sanji and Zoro is pretty stark, The women, not so much.TBH I think the visual designs from Kishi are generally better with women. The writing of course... not so much.

Kishi wanted Sakura to be a sexy character, but literally couldn't pull it off. His own words.

LuffyLuffyNoMi

@Mox:

s there a name for this girls-get-girly-powers trope?

Don't know if I understood what you said, but could it be you meant:

! cliché or stereotype

Malintex_Terek

@Mox:

The fanservice seems obligatory for the genre.

Except OP was curiously bereft of it for nearly 400 chapters.

@Mox:

Well, for the target audience, too - it's not like western superhero comics are any better.

I don't believe the first part is true. OP became popular without fanservice and its inclusion hasn't really made a noticeable impact in its popularity. Fanservice is mostly dead weight/filler, like a lot of chase scenes in Hollywood movies. There's really no explanation for why or how it found its way into OP, and why it's still here.

If anything, fanservice is used by an inferior manga-ka to compensate for content a skilled one creates. To-Love-Ru comes to mind, it was nothing but pointless fanservice and circular situations, and now it's canceled, like a lot of manga of its type.

SingingThroughTheStorm

I don't see how Weather and extra arms are that girly though. Granted if I saw Sanji with the soap whatever it is called power I would be sort of weirded out.

Old_King

The women in One Piece, I wish there was more of them, and more really strong one's like Boa and Big Mama (even though she hasn't been revealed yet) Other than that they're way better than the ones in Naruto, and DBZ. But Bleach and Fairy Tail do good jobs too.

Old_King

@LuffyLuffyNoMi:

Don't know if I understood what you said, but could it be you meant:

! cliché or stereotype

yes a trope is another word for cliche or sterotype

JERK DISEASE

Dragonball wasn't actually bad with women, maybe at the start when Bulma and Lunch were like the only characters.
But later on you get Android 18 and Videl.

Oksa

The fanservice in One Piece is not a very important part of the series, and I'm happy that this is the case. I remember when the chapter where Luffy landed on Amazon Lily was released. After seeing women pulling his so called elastic mushroom and Marguerite being naked with no reason, I was thinking what the heck was going on, because that kind of things don't belong to One Piece. I'd say that the Nami vs. Kalifa fight wasn't even very bad.

Skadi

in One Piece the girls get a better development and screentime, and are far more useful and important for the plots (compared to other manganimes). Most of the other mangas use them just as sex toys for the readers and watchers.

I agree, One Piece girls have giant boobs, but at least you dont have them smashed on your face every five panels like Fairy Tail girls does :P

Airflow

Oda will always be constrained by the fact he's writing primarily for teenagers who want to see tits.

Don Quichotte De Flamingo

For that topic i think its necessary to say a word about the Amazons. Here Oda portrayed women as strong, hard working and for themselves living individuals, who dont need the "helping hand" of a man.

Interesting is that the Amazons slightely took over specific characteristic from men while all their time living without them.
-strongest female is most popoular
-all want to be one day warriors
-being pretty doesn`t rly count in that kingdom (Hancock excluded)

Muah

Strong, sexy. love em. No anime does it better.

O baba

I think they have great personality and are heroic; mother of Robin, mother of Nami, the one of Chopper ;) …

the only cliché was Klifa but it was meant tht way

Kishido

@Louis:

Now this irritates me, you say women are behaving like sluts just for behaving the same way men have for however many thousands of years. In at least a few countries it's a new age man, women can do what they like rather than what they are told.

That… is kind of a huge understatement.

The way Oda portrays women doesn't bother me much, but then again I don't pay much attention or think about these things much.

be more accurate, you should say most teen males.

WTF? They cn do whatever they want. I have no problems with it. Simple point is. Everywhere you see boobs and half naked women. Promotions, TV, Music and and and.

So I'm not suprised having it in a manga. It is the current time where boobs and such things are less shocking than 20 or 30 years ago.

Reyairia

@Halfmetal-lich:

And if your upset about chest size in this manga, Fairy Tail would like some words with you. There's fanservice taken too far…

yeah. Remember that cat outfit Lucy wore in that short story about the girls' dormitory? I've seen more modest outfits in hentai.
At least the girls are very strong, though. Erza comes to mind.
Fairy Tail however, isn't meant to be taken seriously. Even Mashima himself said that it wasn't going to be deep and it's pretty clear he's doesn't put that much thought into it.

@Mox:

What I don't really get is the Woshu Woshu no Mi. That's so weirdly specific and gender-role-associated. Flower, soap, smooth, weight, and love powers are iffy to me for the same reason, but to a lesser degree.

There are a lot of that and that also really bugs me. At least there's a lot of women who that doesn't apply to, but still.
That and despite the name, Robin's fruit doesn't seem gender specific to me.

@Mox:

The fanservice seems obligatory for the genre. Well, for the target audience, too - it's not like western superhero comics are any better.

They're not. In fact, I think in most cases they seem worse, though I don't read western superhero comics so I can't say for sure. I've just read a lot of complaints regarding their portrayal in them. Like that Mary Jane figurine where she was barefoot and washing Parker's laundry with her ass in the air.

Pochipochi

@JERK:

Or should I say japanese comic, because shojo can be just as awful (worse even).

When it comes to offensive portrayal gender roles in manga, there are not many blatant, obvious ones. But when they're there, they are usually aimed at young girls and touted as a romance.

Hot Gimmick here we go

Gizmo

Chopper and his portrayal bothers me way more than Nami or Robin. He was given the cuteness factor and it's just been oozing out of his default form more as time goes on. I miss the badass Chopper that took out Kuromarimo sometimes. Nami and Robin are fine characters, even with their proportions growing.

Fanservice only bothered me with Kalifa, but that was in part because she acted like a dumb blonde instead of an assassin.

Even when Hancock fell in love with Luffy she still acted the same to everyone else and she still kicked ass. It wasn't bad enough to call her "chick" cliche. So yeah, women are handled pretty well.

SingingThroughTheStorm

What is the issue with Chopper's cuteness. The big hat was obviously there for a very specific reason, animals with large floppy hats are cuter.

I think Chopper was obviously going to be a cuter character during the introduction of him. We saw him hiding on the wrong side of the wall.
I think people can agree Bepo is cute. Look at Chopper's wanted poster, COTTON CANDY. I do think the blush areas on his face aren't fitting.
It makes it a pain to try and color.

Dark Ren

the woman (at least the one that has some name, not a cameo in the background) in OP almost all of it is really pretty (with giant boobs) or extremely ugly. and such the one who is pretty almost show their boobs. I notice robin didn't even put a bra on in most cases. if you see the Strong World Artbook, you will see her clothing in transpatent one and it only covers the nipples.

I also notice the bouncy boobs in movie 7. but well, OP is mostly for a man, so what can we do. Fairy tail is the same, but it cross the line too far

Gladiator777

@Dark:

the woman (at least the one that has some name, not a cameo in the background) in OP almost all of it is really pretty (with giant boobs) or extremely ugly. and such the one who is pretty almost show their boobs. I notice robin didn't even put a bra on in most cases. if you see the Strong World Artbook, you will see her clothing in transpatent one and it only covers the nipples.

I also notice the bouncy boobs in movie 7. but well, OP is mostly for a man, so what can we do. Fairy tail is the same, but it cross the line too far

In OP, Beside Robin and Nami, Not many Women Have Big Boobs Unlike "BLEACH". And what is more interesting about OP is that Most Female are not young women…Cause this is Not a Teenager Manga.

Crossword

Fanservice doesn't really bug me that much unless it's over the top and excessive, which One Piece doesn't do, or gets in the way of the story (the Kalifa fight…ugh); I usually just roll my eyes and go on with my life. Though I will admit to briefly raising an eyebrow when Marguerite was topless for no reason (which the anime fixed).

I feel that while there are some unfortunate implications from time to time, Oda generally treats his female cast well. Compared to other shonen where females either exist to pine after the male leads or get sidelined so that the guys can act all slashy with each other, it handles itself pretty well in that regard.

Though, I wouldn't mind it if Oda broke his habit of samebody, but at six-hundred chapters in, I guess it's here to stay.

Coolnerd89

I honestly don't have a problem with the women in OP. I think their character and strength helps fill their roles.
As for the boobs thing… For one, sex sells. That's true in almost every country. They show boobs, they show bikini's, and if the artwork is good, it gets attention. And really, that's all they need. I did have to laugh when Nami's chest progressivly got bigger in such a short amount of -in story time-. At least they arn't bigger than their heads.

Also Dark Ren, I have to slap you with the Irony stick for talking about how big boobs sometime cross the line when you have that avatar. Or maybe the hypocrit paddle...