@JERK:
I also hope something has changed majorly about Sabo's personality.
I figure, if he's not with Dragon, he probably is a Pirate who got soured by starting so early and exposed to some nasty crap so young, and has morphed into a prick. Probably disfigured, if so.
@S.C.:
I figure, if he's not with Dragon, he probably is a Pirate who got soured by starting so early and exposed to some nasty crap so young, and has morphed into a prick. Probably disfigured, if so.
And with an eyepatch. 
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
And with an eyepatch.
Seems likely, but for all I know, he might be missing a hand or something. But, it's 50/50 on what he does now currently in the story for me.
First, anyone who has not read it, read Aohige's explanation of why Sabo's alive.
Now, oh hey, listen up, dandy boys and annoying girls.
I believe that Sabo, in his reunion with Luffy, will bring up a new point of view about freedom, which may eventually effect/change Luffy's point of view somehow, or lead to a conflict.
You may say that I am probably over-thinking about a children comic book, but look at these two panels:
[hide]
1.
2.
[/hide]
First panel:
Sabo is questioning the true meaning of freedom, the right way to obtain it. He is wondering whether his choice to become a pirate will lead to the true freedom. He is reconsidering the path he had chosen before (as he said to Luffy and Ace:"Let's break out of this country and become free, as a pirate.").
Why did Oda show us this panel? If Sabo just set sail right-out to the vast sea as a pirate, with out a doubt in his choice, then why did he have to ponder about the definition of freedom ? If he just believed that to become pirate is to become free, why did he have to question where freedom lies? If the only way Sabo could see is to become a pirate, then the panel is unnecessary. If this is Bleach, then the panel may indicate nothing. But this is One Piece, where every panel is on purpose, every detail is possibly a hint.
What made Sabo reconsider his choice was definitely the Terminal Gray incident. Assuming that the people at trash mountain are dead, Sabo yet couldn't do anything for them, or couldn't see a way to do anything for them. And he didn't. He detested his hometown, yet couldn't see a way to change it, couldn't see a way to prevent events like that from happening again. He just decided to escape from it, for himself to be free, leave the "trash-people" in risk of being burned again, leave the poor people in suffer of being suppressed, leave the noble kids in the corrupted environment and education that would just make them look down upon other humans. He abandoned his hometown to become free. Was he questioning that choice?
The second panel:
Assuming that Sabo is dead, Ace yet couldn't understand what "killed" him, couldn't see the root of Sabo's problem, couldn't see the right way to revenge Sabo properly, couldn't see a path to change what caused the "death" of his brother, couldn't do anything to "the thing that's opposite of freedom". And he didn't. Like Dadan said, it's not just tenryuubito, the nobles, that "killed" Sabo. It's their country. It's their world. It's the ideology that has existed through many ages and been accepted as obvious truth. It's the way of thinking that has been carved deep into people's mind through many generations. Being a pirate, even a powerful one like Pirate King, wouldn't be able to change that. Ace and Luffy, at their age, couldn't comprehend that, and just decided to become pirates, and saw it as a way to inherit Sabo's will, leaving him in a sore and bitter death of an unsolved problem.
Oda showed us the panel with Ace admitting his inability to see the problem, for what purpose? The only intention I could see is that, Oda will later show us some scenes with Sabo explaining to Luffy what pushed him to the verge of death, what prevented him from gripping freedom, and his way to deal with it.
I believe Sabo is now a revolutionizer.
Sabo at the time he set sail, also couldn't see any path to solve his problem with his hometown other than escaping from it, and almost faced death because of that unsolved problem. But Dragon saved him, and showed him that way. The way of revolution. That's what made Sabo a revolutionary. That's what changed his point of view. That is what make him give up on the path of a pirate. Dragon, an open-minded man, a man whose thought advanced his generation, a man who let his son live his life the way he wants, wouldn't force Sabo to become a revolutionizer if he still wanted to be a pirate. All Dragon did to change Sabo was to show him his thought, show him the root of the problem, the true face of what oppose freedom and that what a man must do is to face his opponent, face the thing that prevents him from becoming free, and fight it, and change it, change this world, not only for himself and his loved ones, but also for the whole world.
Sabo decided to be a pirate when he was, like, 5 years old, and keep that intention until he was 10. As time changes, human changes. People grow up, even in this manga. If I am Oda, after Dragon successfully overthrows the WG, I will let Sabo become a man like Norland, who also legally went on adventures and wrote about them.
Since the theme of One Piece right now is freedom, I can see Oda thinking about freedom much more than me.
–------
As for Luffy
[hide] He decided to become a pirate and see it as the only way to achieve the highest form of freedom, and to him "adventure" mean "pirate" since he was 7 or even younger. Too young of an age to decide what your life will become, especially a life involving such questionable things like piracy. For a kid that loves adventures, to become an adventurer is more appropriate. When Luffy becomes the Pirates King, as his father is the leader of a new world order, how will their relationship turn into, with the whole world knowing they are father and son? How will Dragon continue to let him roam free as an outlaw, a criminal that people of the world see as a terrific menace, yet maintain the trust of people? Based on this, if I am Oda, I won't let the ending of One Piece is as simple as Luffy becoming Pirate King.
And Luffy right now, has temporarily lost his confidence in himself, his happy-go-lucky manner, and begun to question his whole journey. As brilliant as his character development goes in the masterful hand of Oda, I doubt he will maintain his old point of view about pirates, like other typical shounen main characters. Ace is dead, and he was captured because he was son of a big criminal, adopted son of another big criminal, and a big criminal himself. Will Luffy ever question about the fate of a Pirate King once his time's over, with Roger as exampple, whose friends and related ones was hunted by the government, and according to Moria, pretty many were executed, including Tom (cause he did commit severe crimes to be seen as demon by the world like destroying a whole army of a country, slaughtering Squardo's crew, being seen as responsible for Shiki's half fleet destroyed, encouraging people to be outlaw and making ordinary citizens suffer piracy, etc. , other than just knowing the true history)? Without any goal such as putting an end to the WG, will Luffy be able see how much disaster he will bring to Makino, Nojiko, Iceburg, and others once he dies as the number one pirate while the WG still exists? And even if the WG stop existing, how will the new government led by Dragon handle such a criminal like Pirate King?
The thing is, will Oda ignore that?
[/hide]
I hope he dead. If he is alive, it would ruin everything.
PSN: Darknessslayer0
I hope he dead. If he is alive, it would ruin everything.
You, sir, know nothing about decent storytelling.
Sabo is alive and that is obvious as the Earth moves around the sun. This thread still has another purpose to be served, for its name is Sabo's fate, and the term "fate" indicates many thing more than just "dead or alive", but the poll is no longer necessary. So I suggest that we should make a new poll, like "Will Sabo be in conflict with Luffy?", or something about his role in the story.
And yet he is the only character that get a decent thread for himself.
I hope he dead. If he is alive, it would ruin everything.
What is at risk to be ruined by Sabo being alive.
That was quite profound, Sea. The end also made me think of that conflivt for the first time, too.
Saved By Kuma or Dragon and became a Revolutionary
Adding Sabo into current storyline is good for me.
Now if he's a villan… That would be awesome.
Sabo v. Luffy
That was really good Sea, I think you pretty much nailed it when you said Sabo would become a "revolutionizer". A part of me deeply wants to see him try to be a pirate though, to set-off on the path he decided in the beginning. Another part, wants to see him try to get to Marineford to Ace, and him being distraught that he couldn't get there in time.
I think it's echoed in the other members when they were saying that, they were worried that Sabo did a face-turn and became someone different. That's the only thing that bugs me, if Sabo hadn't changed, then I don't think any excuse will be that persuasive on why he didn't try to rescue Ace. Unless they, I mean his revolutionary comrades, strapped him down and locked him up or something to that effect. It will be interesting though to see what Oda has cooked up in introducing Sabo back into the story.
This just came into my mind but if that's so maybe Ivankov will meet Sabo and tell him about Luffy. Though, it still bugs me in the back of my head, I think that Oda will really surprise us with Sabo, that he might not be with the revolutionary army at all. What I mean to say is, that the person who received first-aid isn't who we think it is.
Why do people want him to be dead so badly? What's so wrong with hoping he's alive? It'd be really neat if he was part of the revolutionaries all this time, but I can cope if he's dead.
I took the time to read Sea's post and I think it's brilliant. But I dunno what to say lol
It was never stated whether Sabo's body was found or not.
EXACTLY.
Dogura didn't report a corpse. He reported seeing what we saw him see.
That was left to the unknown.
Until this chapter.
And Dogura didn't return until quite a while later.
Dogura didn't find his body. If there was a body Oda would hav had something happened with it. A burial.
A person's more likely to have terrible injuries from being burnt then being in an explosion, Though that's more because an explosions usually straight up kill them.
Explosions throw people distances, and most of their danger (if not a direct hit) is shrapnel.
Anyway, The point being that the injuries from being burnt can also be considered terrible.
Yeah, again, WHY THE FUCK WOULD DRAGON SAVE BLUEJAM.
No no no no, better yet, WHY WOULD ODA SAVE BLUEJAM.
Olvia smiled when she hugged Robin, But she didn't die then. She died later, Where she wasn't shown smiling. So there are examples of named characters dying without smiling.
They died conclusive deaths with final thoughts and words. Oda dotted the i's and crossed the t's.
Sabo just "blew up" all of a sudden.
I have to ask you what kind of a poster Lobster Pot Sticker was, zep.
He posted a lot of images, usually of character faces, to react to things.
He did it in a really lame and annoying way, and used Vivi mostly.
I'm liking your work so far with the panels.
Lobster still does that on FPF… Just sayin'
u_u I'm off topic
He was pretty annoying.
One of the many deserving victims of APF's own night of long knives.
Was he the one that got a permanent ban from the humor thread?
@JERK:
I'm liking your work so far with the panels.
Nice to hear that, especially from you. Maybe I am just good with panels.
@Kairouseki:
Was he the one that got a permanent ban from the humor thread?
He lost the vote we did of who to kick out I think.
Yeah, I remember, I just couldn't remember is he was the one that lost 
.
Had Sabo been handled more like Dadan, Garp, Whitebeard, Blackbeard, Dragon, Mihawk, Jinbei, Hancock, Lola's mom, Kaidou, etc, etc, etc it wouldn't be a big deal at all.
And while I understand that, Oda did it for a deliberate reason. Those of us who know OP know the man works on a higher level and is extremely anal about what he does or doesn't release regarding info about his world.
It could be almost anything.
But personally, I think it's just because he wanted us to focus on the bond between Ace and Luffy at that moment.
And logically, what opportunity was there in the story?
How many people have we interacted with that actually know Sabo?
Ace? Okay, but he basically said, "HI/BYE!", in Arabasta and that was that.
Dadan? We never met.
Fuusha townspeople? They didn't know who Sabo was.
Garp? Yeah he would have known but we've seen him interacting with the boys post-fire which means he would've known about the death and had no reason to bring him up.
Then what? Luffy?
Who would Luffy talk to him about besides Ace whom he saw for a matter of moments in Arabasta?
Remember, this is the only comic book hero I can think of who has only 'spoken' through a thought bubble once in over a decade.
I would even consider arguing that for Luffy to bring him up at any other point besides the death of his brother would be out of character.
Again, that doesn't mean I have beef with how the story impacted you, but it just seems to make sense to me. Would it have made Oda seem more calculating to a casual reader? Yeah sure. But in revealing it this way Oda sacrificed making himself look like a genius (that he sure as shit is) and instead kept his characters true to themselves.
Re: Lobster Pot-Sticker
There are only two people in the history of Arlong Park that I physically added to my Ignore List.
One is because someone spoiled an element from THE SERIES FINALE OF LOST.
The other Lobster Pot-Sticker.
When did Luffy use a tought bubble?
After he rang the bell in Skypiea. His thoughts to Monbran.
I thought it was when he actively shut off his brain against Enel.
And logically, what opportunity was there in the story?
Logically? Logically, any opportunity the author writes into the story; as the author, he can do that without spoiling anything or causing us to lose focus. You don't confine what opportunities could have existed within the limitations of what already exists, that doesn't make any sense.
How many people have we interacted with that actually know Sabo?
Makino and Woop Slap. Did the mention of Dadan's name back in Water 7 distract you from Luffy and Ace's development at Marineford? Did it do anything but make you wonder who Dadan was and what role he* would have? How would it have been any different if the name drop then was Sabo, and not Dadan? That's a bottom of the barrel suggestion, but it's those small things that help make the story what it is. Anyway, let's not beat this dead horse, and just let this particular offshoot of discussion rest in peace.
@JERK:
Actually, seconding what Retsudo said.
Oda could sqaunder Sabo entirely. And make all this unworth while.
What I expect is that Sabo won't be as Ace was. He won't be that friendly older face of zero conflict.
I want him and Luffy to seem equalish, friendly at heart, but have some sort of conflict of interests.
Being as I don't actually think Luffy will be totally aligned with the revolutionaries that could be what it comes down to.
I also hope something has changed majorly about Sabo's personality.
Which is an outcome I'm worried about but am reluctantly giving Oda the benefit of the doubt, though it's hard to get Zik to grasp this concept who seems to think Oda's infallible when it comes to Sabo.
Logically, any opportunity the author writes into the story; as the author, he can do that without spoiling anything or causing us to lose focus.
And from the characters' perspectives, it made no logical sense to bring it in. Which is why he didn't.
Makino and Woop Slap.
You're right about them I neglected the panel they were shown together in the montage and even if WS wasn't terribly involved with them Makino obviously was. However, Makino doesn't say much of anything to begin with besides fawning over Shanks and WS mentioning Dadan was enough.
Honestly, what sense does it make for them to bring up people that died over ten years ago.
"But Greg the author-"
Yes, he could have if he wanted to. But he obviously didn't want to and knowing what we do about them, it simply makes sense.
If we had a chapter titled "Woop Slap Ponders Luffy Leaving to Sea and Compares it to Past Events" then yeah, maybe I'd think it's a little strange. But we've had literally a handful of dialogue from some of these people and what they have offered has always been interesting.
Did the mention of Dadan's name back in Water 7 distract you from Luffy and Ace's development at Marineford?
Actually what I meant by that was, if we were talking/thinking about ANOTHER brother, the bond between Ace and Luffy might not have seemed as special.
Okay without a diatribe I'll try to sum it up in as short a sentence as possible.
By leaving out an important name related to the two that could have been considered a special relationship, we experienced the death of Ace from the perspectives of Ace and Luffy, that is, Ace was all the family Luffy had left that he knew.
In some ways it was a gift. There was little to no speculation amongst the majority of readers that could predict, "You know, I bet there's someone else.", because we didn't know. Oda kept us in the dark and because of that, we saw the death from Luffy's perspective and I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. However, if he just threw Sabo in there suddenly, even I would have thrown my hands up and screamed ass-pull but that's simply not the case.
We had the line of 'freedom' from two years back.
We had the slightest hint of a third sake cup that, at the time, could have been mistaken for something else.
We have Ace's tattoo which may or may not be a relation depending on whether or not he was aware of Sabo's symbol.
And this finally culminated in a name drop AT THE BEST TIME. THAT time when Ace was on the brink of death made perfect sense to talk about him. Not Woop Slap worrying about Dadan hearing about Luffy or Makino giggling.
It appears to be a deliberate choice and one that I enjoy for having been kept in the dark while still having hints along the way.
Again, while I can see that sitting sour with some people, it actually enhanced the story for me. Especially since I friggin' hated Sabo at the start.
How would it have been any different if the name drop then was Sabo, and not Dadan?
Because I'd be more concerned about people that are still living rather than those that passed away years ago. Again, if we had the "Woop Slap Ponders his Naval" chapter maybe I'd be upset, but that's not the case.
I told you, Ace's tattoo was obviously because of the mistake of the stupid tattoo artist.
Or maybe it's Oda's stupid mistake. He misdrew the S instead of C and because of the deadline he can't redraw a new one so he just crossed it.
Sounds reasonable.
The "Oda is a genius" shit gets thrown around far too casually. He's a good writer of adventure comics, but that's about it.
The "Oda is a genius" shit gets thrown around far too casually. He's a good writer of adventure comics, but that's about it.
"The noun "genius" is a level of aptitude, capability, or achievement that exceeds the accomplishment of any other person in the same field."
Cough, couugh.
???
You clearly can't see the epicness of his "well" written adventure "comic"
dude why did you quotation marked the word comic lol
completely OT but I fucking hate word epic.
edit: About Sabo, man's totally alive and kickin' with Dragon
which is totally cool
cuz it is a "manga". I know it is more or less the same. But still I hate that word for OP or any other japanese manga
@Sea:
I told you, Ace's tattoo was obviously because of the mistake of the stupid tattoo artist.
Or maybe it's Oda's stupid mistake. He misdrew the S instead of C and because of the deadline he can't redraw a new one so he just crossed it.Sounds reasonable.
Wasn't Sabo's symbol on the letter? Mangashare's had it but Onemanga's didn't.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
Wasn't Sabo's symbol on the letter? Mangashare's had it but Onemanga's didn't.
Yeah it was on the latter and it looks exactly like the S on Ace's tatoo
If only Ace knew how much his tattoo impacted Sabo's fate. :ninja:
The "Oda is a genius" shit gets thrown around far too casually. He's a good writer of adventure comics, but that's about it.
I think if you write a manga series that broke all sales record in history of the industry, and is hands down the most successful franchise in current Japanese comic book market, you earn the right to be called a "genius".
Just like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates also earned that right.
Unless you're so stingy with the word you want to reserve it for guys like Einstein.
Yeah it was on the latter and it looks exactly like the S on Ace's tatoo
I wasn't going to look for a raw, but I remembered the spoiler images:
Ace Knows what sabo's symbol was.
cuz it is a "manga". I know it is more or less the same. But still I hate that word for OP or any other japanese manga
thats really lame
like really omgjapan<3iwannabepuuuuuuuure-lame
thats really lame
like really omgjapan<3iwannabepuuuuuuuure-lame
Try to google the difference ixxxx^^
There really isn't any significant difference, just like you said.
I wasn't going to look for a raw, but I remembered the spoiler images:
[qimg]http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6184/84540823.jpg[/qimg]
Ace Knows what sabo's symbol was.
Hey I didn't notice that. thanks for the image.
There really isn't any significant difference, just like you said.
but there are differences^^
Which is an outcome I'm worried about but am reluctantly giving Oda the benefit of the doubt, though it's hard to get Zik to grasp this concept who seems to think Oda's infallible when it comes to Sabo.
I understand the notion but I'll never seriously consider it. Oda doesn't go around doing that and he wouldn't do it with Sabo given the circumstance in which he let him live.
Saying Oda could squander Sabo's potential is just acknowledging the world of possibilities. Oda could permanently make Sanji a drag queen. Oda could make Gin return as an unworthy fodder enemy that gets pwned in the same chap of his reintroduction.
I don't consider silly things like that. Not being able to see how a character will be used is not an excuse for that. Maybe if Oda had some track record for it, I would but I'm fine with how he's handled OP characters thus far.
The "Oda is a genius" shit gets thrown around far too casually. He's a good writer of adventure comics, but that's about it.
In his field, he is. There's no question about it. When you know what he does each and every week it's absolutely goddamn amazing. I always had an inkling but the deluge of interviews from around SW's release really had him open up about his work method and style and more than that, the fact that he was managing SO MUCH. I mean SO SO SO MUCH while writing a goddamn war and action climax to the first half of his series is REMARKABLE. His normal workload is batshit insane so I have no idea how the man operates. This becomes increasingly impressive when one understands what business/work management means and requires in Japan.
He is a goddamned genius in his field.
