We like it because it's incredibly fluid and fun to watch.
I'd like to have Luffy run fluidly like a man.
We like it because it's incredibly fluid and fun to watch.
I'd like to have Luffy run fluidly like a man.
Man, this is really dragging. And it looks like the next episode will only be up til the door surfing at most.
@Thousand:
A style I said I've hated over and over again because of how it sacrifices the quality of the art.
Maybe it's just me but i don't even think his art is bad, heaviy styilized sure but not bad at all.
I hoped from the last Tate episode, things would change but alas they did not. BTW, that little gif is from the only GOOD Tate episode (not that I think that a single gif means anything but…).
Watch 404.
And it doesn't mean that all the bad stuff can be blamed on someone else.
Sure, but it doesn't mean you can go and blame the length of the episode recap on the ANIMATION director.
No actually, you can't assure me of anything. You think Tate can do no wrong so anything bad MUST be because of someone else.
I think the shitty parts of this episode (i.e. the pacing) are not Tate's fault because of his track record. If you look at other episodes he's directed, even though I know we can't agree on the quality of the art, we can agree that none of them had pacing THIS atrocious. You hate Tate because of his art and IN THIS VERY SAME POST you said he's a good director except for this episode. So I'm a little confused about why you seem so adament about blaming the shitty parts of this episode solely on Tate.
That was the episode where Luffy and the crew were separated right? The one where the Straw Hats looked especially ugly and the Luffy breakdown was ruined because it focused on squirming on the ground rather than Luffy's face as he beats his head to the ground.
No. 404 was the one right before that one, and it was great.
Yes, god yes on so many levels.
oh god lol. Sorry but that alone speaks volumes about your taste.
He would be if his art didn't suck so much ass and if didn't let himself carried away with the animation at times. I agree that usually he's good at directing though except for this episode.
And this is why i don't get why you're so willing to blame everything that sucks in this episode on him. Even the fucking RECAP length.
My problem is the ART not the animation. I do not deny that Tate's animation is great on a technical level (if impractical and exaggerated). but he sacrifices art because of it and that's his call not because of the budget. He does it because that's his style and I hate his style. If he improves his art to even decent levels, he'd probably be one of my favorites.
I said that PS thing because earlier in your post you said the animation was not up to par this episode.
Now look at last week's episode which I believe Ishizuka did, right? Good, decent animation mixed with very good art. That's what I want. Tate is great animation and bad art. You need a balance betwen the two, maybe a little nudged in one direction, but not completely focusing on one aspect.
I used last week's episode as an example because i felt it was also a waste of a great animator. Sure the drawings were very nice most the time but the animation on a lot of it was very stiff and uninspired (most likely because of a low budget for the episode.) like BB grabbing Luffy.
@Tijnn.:
Am I like the only one here that doesn't give a shit about animation?
yeah probably
302 wasn't a bad episode, it was much better than this…
At least in the beating up Marines filler there was a lot of action and not a stupid staredown.
:|
302 is the worst episode of One Piece i've ever seen. I would so much rather watch a boring episode animated by Tate than this gutter trash:
q2VcRh7W8IY
I was referring to pacing, not art or animation.
Well I'd imagine Toei sets the page count.. and all he had to work with was a partial chapter where hardly anything happened. Iva/Magellan was only a few panels and Toei wanted to make that the focus of the episode. Kind of a waste of Tate though, I will rage if he was stuck with this and someone else does Jimbei's water-fu episode or some of the more action oriented stuff coming up soon.
We like it because it's incredibly fluid and fun to watch.
Sure it's fluid, but when you sacrifice details for fluidity…
What i'm complaining about is the fact that the movements are too useless, it's seems like every particle in the body moves on it's own.
And i don't like the drawing too ; for me a great animation must have chars drawed in a style like the original's, or at least near the original.
Sure it's fluid, but when you sacrifice details for fluidity…
…You get awesome stuff like this? 0pRwLA81B94
for me a great animation must have chars drawed in a style like the original's, or at least near the original.
Very few of the most talented animators on the show mimic the style of the manga super accurately. For me, as long as the character is drawn in a appealing manner and is well animated, I'm happy. And Tate certainly delivers on both levels.
i liked the part where iva first showed his make-up face and after that with his shoe laces..hehe first time i enjoyed ivankov
other than that not rly much happened in that episode..
and still the artstyle is kind of cool..where`s the director of those episodes again?
@Don:
and still the artstyle is kind of cool..where`s the director of those episodes again?
Naoki Tate. Here's a list of all the episodes he's worked on:
! 105
112
135
141
147
153
160
174
181
190
197 (this is around the time his style began to evolve into what it is today)
206
212
219
225
228
233
239
249
254
271
278
280
289
292
304
309 (w. Katsumi Ishizuka)
311
319
326 (w. Naoki Murakami)
361
369
378
388
396
404
411
420
429
439
448
Movie 9
Iva-san… makes me feel... confused.
@The:
Maybe it's just me but i don't even think his art is bad, heaviy styilized sure but not bad at all.
As others have said before, it's lacking in too much detail making it look sloppy. It's like he's having it speed drawn so he can hurry up and work on his precious animating.
@The:
Watch 404.
I have.
@The:
Sure, but it doesn't mean you can go and blame the length of the episode recap on the ANIMATION director.
Good. Nice to see that you agree.
@The:
I think the shitty parts of this episode (i.e. the pacing) are not Tate's fault because of his track record. If you look at other episodes he's directed, even though I know we can't agree on the quality of the art, we can agree that none of them had pacing THIS atrocious. You hate Tate because of his art and IN THIS VERY SAME POST you said he's a good director except for this episode. So I'm a little confused about why you seem so adament about blaming the shitty parts of this episode solely on Tate.
I'm not blaming them solely on Tate. I believe he should shoulder some blame. He was the animation director. But I see you've already agreed with me on that front.
@The:
No. 404 was the one right before that one, and it was great.
Oh yeah, the one where Rayleigh did that kick on Kizaru and everyone was raving about it's quality, right? I remember it having Robin look especially grotesque. And who did 405 then?
@The:
oh god lol. Sorry but that alone speaks volumes about your taste.
Oh wow, excuse me if I didn't like the movie with poor villains, completely conflicting themes, awful plot, putrid art and worst of all out of character, emo Straw Hats.
@The:
And this is why i don't get why you're so willing to blame everything that sucks in this episode on him. Even the fucking RECAP length.
The recap length actually wasn't that bad. That aside, he worked on the episode, he gets some of the blame. Which you've already agreed with me on.
@The:
I said that PS thing because earlier in your post you said the animation was not up to par this episode.
It wasn't, it even had still-shots. But let me guess, someone else did those right!?!
@The:
I used last week's episode as an example because i felt it was also a waste of a great animator. Sure the drawings were very nice most the time but the animation on a lot of it was very stiff and uninspired (most likely because of a low budget for the episode.) like BB grabbing Luffy.
It looked good and the movements were decent. Better than the characters moving in crazy manners while looking ugly.
I love how no one knows how to use the word emo anymore, I really do.
Is ther any chance of Batter getting banned again?
what the hell is with all the arguing. come on you all know that the anime is built around a triangle.
Budget
Animation
Art
If you want really good art and animation it will cost a lot. We barely get a huge budget for most episodes, so its up to the directors to do what they want. some have better art and bad animation, some balance and some good animation and bad art.
tate is the good animation and sacrificing art. there is nothing to argue. go ahead and show a few clips of select episodes or MOVIES, and hey guess what. He most likely had a higher budget on those. But given the standard budget, his art is worse than others, because he focuses on his animation more.
edit: normally i would say time instead of budget, but i think you guys are smart enough to know what it means, and you guys seem to want to throw in budget as word all the time. Bigger budget episodes mean they had more time to work on it. it wasn't just because they got paid more in those 8 hours that they drew better pictures, they get paid the same, they just were allowed say 2 weeks instead of 1. which means 2 weeks pay for 1 episode, versus 1 week pay for 1 episoide. hoping your all smart enough to figure out the math on there to see which is a bigger budget. thats all bigger budget means, is they have more time to do the episode, thus can work more on animation, art or both.
@Thousand:
his precious animating.
@Thousand:
his precious animating.
@Thousand:
his precious animating.
@Thousand:
his precious animating.
Another sterling opinion courtesy of thousand batter.
Keep fuckin one of the best arcs Toei !
With so much disgusting animation you can't follow the on-screen action anymore.
You know what I really hate?
When things move.
CURSE YOU TATE WHERES MY SLIDESHOW
@Thousand:
As others have said before, it's lacking in too much detail making it look sloppy. It's like he's having it speed drawn so he can hurry up and work on his precious animating.
Lol you make it sound like animation should be the afterthought in the production of an ANIMATED SERIES.
I have.
Well you clearly don't remember too much about it. You should watch it again. It's a great episode.
I'm not blaming them solely on Tate. I believe he should shoulder some blame. He was the animation director. But I see you've already agreed with me on that front.
Actually i just looked up the credits for this episode:
Screenplay 菅良幸 - Yoshiyuki Suga Art 佐藤美幸 - Miyuki Sato Animation舘直樹 - Naoki Tate Direction えんどうてつや - Tetsuya Endō
Your beef lies with Yoshiyuki Suga and Tetsuya Endō. Suga was in charge of the screenplay, meaning he decided what actually happened in the episode. Endo was the guy who actually directed the action. So basically that proves that both the events that took place in the episode, and the pacing (directing) of the scenes were both completely out of Tate's hands. They just told him what to animate. Yeah so i take it back, Tate didn't have anything to do with the shitty parts of the episode.
Oh yeah, the one where Rayleigh did that kick on Kizaru and everyone was raving about it's quality, right? I remember it having Robin look especially grotesque. And who did 405 then?
The animation director for 405 was Masayuki Takagi.
Oh wow, excuse me if I didn't like the movie with poor villains, completely conflicting themes, awful plot, putrid art and worst of all out of character, emo Straw Hats.
I can accept this statement as long as you hate all the other one piece movies too. But really if you think that any of the other shit-tastic movies actually had a better plot and better villains then I just don't even know what to say.
The recap length actually wasn't that bad.
That was one of the original reasons you stated for why you thought the episode was shit. And I like how you still haven't admitted that the recap length and commercial break recap have NOTHING to do with the animation director.
It wasn't, it even had still-shots. But let me guess, someone else did those right!?!
Tate probably drew them yes (at least they look like they were in his style), but he would not have been the one who chose to put them in. That would be either the director or the screenplay guy.
It looked good and the movements were decent. Better than the characters moving in crazy manners while looking ugly.
A lot of the movements were stiff and awkward. For example; BB catching Luffy and slamming him into the ground. It certainly had nice parts, but a lot the animation was just kind of meh. Same with this episode.
tate is the good animation and sacrificing art. there is nothing to argue.
Maybe i'm like the only person here who feels this way, but i don't think Tate's art is bad at all, it's stylized sure, but it is in no way bad. (to me at least) Tate has crazy artistic skills that always shine through no matter how under detailed his drawings are.
go ahead and show a few clips of select episodes or MOVIES, and hey guess what. He most likely had a higher budget on those. But given the standard budget, his art is worse than others, because he focuses on his animation more.
… But that was the whole reason i showed those clips, to show that when Tate has more freedom and more money his work is absolutely awesome. The point was to show that he is good at what he does.
I hope one day Disney will stop making their frame by frame done animated features. It completely kills the enjoyment of watching those movies.
@The:
Tate doesn't get to decide how much material an episode covers, he has to work within Toei's bullshit pacing. Tate is probably the best director/animator this show has, it's unfortunate they had to waste his talents on such a dull episode.
When Tate is given full creative reign over something, its fucking amazing:
ecn2BlluNdg
(ignore the shitty Lincoln Park song)
You seriously consider that good?
The ugly ass mouth movements when he says "Gear Second" and the totally unneeded dancing around just to throw off a few attacks?
Don't get me wrong, there are some times when I loved this guys animation style, but this clip is one of the many times that I can't stand his work.
I hope one day Disney will stop making their frame by frame done animated features. It completely kills the enjoyment of watching those movies.
A still picture with a soundtrack is the way forward.
I just checked. For the first time in years, Tate didn't do any key animation in this episode.
I'm expecting a scene for him in one of the next couple of episodes.
Yukiko Nakatani and Atsuko Kawamura worked in this episode.
Hopefully candle champion Luffy to Kinijite demon-ish.
You seriously consider that good?
The ugly ass mouth movements when he says "Gear Second" and the totally unneeded dancing around just to throw off a few attacks?
Yes because when the lip sinc actually matches the words the characters are saying it's "ugly".
The animation is fluid as hell and the style is great. Yeah the animation is obviously exaggerated, but that doesn't at all mean that its bad.
You know what I really hate?
When things move.
CURSE YOU TATE WHERES MY SLIDESHOW
I laughed for a very long time at this
Hopefully candle champion Luffy to Kinijite demon-ish.
I second this.
Hopefully he is not busy on something else other than One Piece. He just did a scene recently for the anime Kimi ni Todoke, ep 22.
I hope Toei doesn't use him on anything else.
I think the main problem with Tate's animation lately has been consistency. He does things in such a different manner from a lot of the other artists that there's a disconnect in the overall anime style. The loss of detail with the great animation could actually look awesome if it stood by itself, but when you're switching between his animation and a styles that involve higher detail with lower tech animation, the different styles feel out of place with each other. This episode had some direct examples of that with the presence of the detailed still frames in the midst of the fluid animation. They didn't fit together at all. The One Piece anime needs to settle on a consistent art style.
I don't even what the the fuss is… The bad parts of the episode were just the narrator recapping all the floors, Buggy and Iva's hesitant cutting. Everything else was just a typical One Piece episode.
Wait... What am I saying. Cry moar. The tears and relentless whining amuses me.
I think the main problem with Tate's animation lately has been consistency. He does things in such a different manner from a lot of the other artists that there's a disconnect in the overall anime style. The loss of detail with the great animation could actually look awesome if it stood by itself, but when you're switching between his animation and a styles that involve higher detail with lower tech animation, the different styles feel out of place with each other. This episode had some direct examples of that with the presence of the detailed still frames in the midst of the fluid animation. They didn't fit together at all. The One Piece anime needs to settle on a consistent art style.
The One Piece anime NEVER has a consistent style for a VERY long time. Does it need it? Nope.
@The:
Lol you make it sound like animation should be the afterthought in the production of an ANIMATED SERIES.
Nope, but neither should the art.
@The:
Well you clearly don't remember too much about it. You should watch it again. It's a great episode.
It is. A shame the art sucked.
@The:
Your beef lies with Yoshiyuki Suga and Tetsuya Endō. Suga was in charge of the screenplay, meaning he decided what actually happened in the episode. Endo was the guy who actually directed the action. So basically that proves that both the events that took place in the episode, and the pacing (directing) of the scenes were both completely out of Tate's hands. They just told him what to animate. Yeah so i take it back, Tate didn't have anything to do with the shitty parts of the episode.
Hmm interesting. Still hate the art and exaggerated movement.
@The:
I can accept this statement as long as you hate all the other one piece movies too. But really if you think that any of the other shit-tastic movies actually had a better plot and better villains then I just don't even know what to say.
Movie 6 was by far the worst movie of the lot. I liked Movie 8 more than it. Movie 8!!! At least the Straw Hats acted like Straw Hats there. It was nothing but a mess of dark, emo bullshit which totally doesn't fit One Piece's theme at all, a contrived plot of angst with awful plot twists (useless dad saves the day in the end at the last minute with no prior build up!!!), awful art (I remember one bit where Chopper was talking to the kid, he didn't have a neck!!!), pathetic l villains like a plate guy and some cowardly goldfisher and a Boss whose only ability was an arrow that can change directions and whose character only amounted to being a whiny bitch who could only beat Luffy due to plotkai making Luffy magically weak and worst of all out of character Straw Hats. Luffy's obliviousness to his crew's strife was disturbing (he may be an idiot but he's deep enough to notice important shit like that), Zoro and Sanji wanted to kill each other over stuff that they wouldn't give a shit about, Nami and Usopp fought over stuff they normally wouldn't give a shit about… just awful awful characterization.
@The:
That was one of the original reasons you stated for why you thought the episode was shit. And I like how you still haven't admitted that the recap length and commercial break recap have NOTHING to do with the animation director.
I DON'T think the episode was shit. Where did I state this? And I didn't care for the recap. Wasn't as bad as people were making it out to be.
@The:
Tate probably drew them yes (at least they look like they were in his style), but he would not have been the one who chose to put them in. That would be either the director or the screenplay guy.
Even Iva's attack on Magellan? Whatever, animation still seemed subpar to Tate's usual for me.
@The:
A lot of the movements were stiff and awkward. For example; BB catching Luffy and slamming him into the ground. It certainly had nice parts, but a lot the animation was just kind of meh. Same with this episode.
Good for you, you like exaggerated movement and bad art. I don't. I like good art and good animation. I don't need animation to be excellent if the art is gonna suffer.
I think the main problem with Tate's animation lately has been consistency. He does things in such a different manner from a lot of the other artists that there's a disconnect in the overall anime style. The loss of detail with the great animation could actually look awesome if it stood by itself, but when you're switching between his animation and a styles that involve higher detail with lower tech animation, the different styles feel out of place with each other. This episode had some direct examples of that with the presence of the detailed still frames in the midst of the fluid animation. They didn't fit together at all. The One Piece anime needs to settle on a consistent art style.
thats my only complain really with tate. I'm fine with his art or animation and all that. i'm not going to say his art sucks or rules or his animation does or not. there are times that both have good moments and bad moments.
But his episodes look so different than all the other episodes that it bugs me. When you have like 5 episodes or whateve rin a row that all look roughlyt he same and then throw in some guy way different its confusing. Its like if your favorite artists drew this weeks one piece chapter. Sure you guys may love it and think its just awesome, but i hate it. Not that its a bad drawings, but i want consistency.
All this talk of "Oh Tate's awesome/sucks" is really just going around in circles. Tate's style, even though I like it, is obviously not for everyone. The same can be said for other animators' styles. If I remember correctly, the guy who did the BB vs. Luffy episode usually has a problem when it comes to characters' faces…in that they all seem to have the same template. Does it distract me to a point of hating it? No, but it's a slight nit-pick of a flaw. Tate has a thing for simple character designs with great animated movement. I mean, with Impel Down, the animation and art has been somewhat more consistent than Thriller Bark, for example. But y'know something else, I still really liked Thriller Bark, while others still say it's shit. It's all a "to each their own" thing in the long run. We all just gotta look at the positives rather than blowing the negatives out of proportions. Lastly, as for this other talk of Bleach and Naruto being better with their cannon material...sadly, the cannon material stopped being interesting a long, long, long time ago, for me anyway. XD
@Thousand:
Nope, but neither should the art.
fffffff
It is. A shame the art sucked.
FFFFFFFFFFF
Hmm interesting. Still hate the art and exaggerated movement.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Movie 6 was by far the worst movie of the lot. I liked Movie 8 more than it. Movie 8!!! At least the Straw Hats acted like Straw Hats there. It was nothing but a mess of dark, emo bullshit which totally doesn't fit One Piece's theme at all, a contrived plot of angst with awful plot twists (useless dad saves the day in the end at the last minute with no prior build up!!!), awful art (I remember one bit where Chopper was talking to the kid, he didn't have a neck!!!), pathetic l villains like a plate guy and some cowardly goldfisher and a Boss whose only ability was an arrow that can change directions and whose character only amounted to being a whiny bitch who could only beat Luffy due to plotkai making Luffy magically weak and worst of all out of character Straw Hats. Luffy's obliviousness to his crew's strife was disturbing (he may be an idiot but he's deep enough to notice important shit like that), Zoro and Sanji wanted to kill each other over stuff that they wouldn't give a shit about, Nami and Usopp fought over stuff they normally wouldn't give a shit about… just awful awful characterization.
It's been the only One Piece movie that can actually stand alone as a good film. I can't say the same of any of the other movies. (Though i have yet to see 10). Movie Six wins by default simply because almost every other movie just recycles themes form the original story. How many fucking times has there been a little kid that hates pirates but are then grows to love the Straw Hats? In movies 2, 3, and 7 Zoro and Sanji have their same exact character conflicts ripped straight from the Arlong arc. And they all end up beating the villians the exact same way. Just how many times is Sanji gonna have to prove that he can protect people? And don't even get me started on movie 8. At least movie 6 was trying something completely different along with having beautiful visuals and animation. And you wanna talk about being out of character? What about movie 5 for Christ's sake?
I DON'T think the episode was shit. Where did I state this? And I didn't care for the recap. Wasn't as bad as people were making it out to be.
You didn't, I just got that impression form your ravenous hatred of Tate. My bad.
Even Iva's attack on Magellan? Whatever, animation still seemed subpar to Tate's usual for me.
Yeah it's pretty obvious Tate was handicapped by lack of budget here. Just like whats-his-face was last episode.
Good for you, you like exaggerated movement and bad art. I don't. I like good art and good animation. I don't need animation to be excellent if the art is gonna suffer.
At this point continuing this would be like ramming my face into a brick wall. I think Tate's art is fine, its appealing and flows well so whatev. I just think it's a shame that you can't appreciate good artistry when you see it.
This type of animation is great for action sequences I have to say, but I still really can't stand it just becuase most of the time the facial expressions have to pay for it. I mean, if they can keep the character's faces from looking like shit, I would be totally in love with this animation.
God how I HATE the way it dragged ON AND ON with the stare-downs of all the characters. It may have covered a chapter (sort of) but seriously, WTF? In Marineford, at least there's enough fighting-implied-filler to take up time while we can all enjoy it. I'd love to see more of the Shichibukai action there. Anyway I digress. Overall, the episode kind of sucked until the end where I got a few chuckles at the expence of Buggy and Mr. 3.
The facial expressions are the best in Tate's episodes.
I am pretty sure that after this ark, we will get the second half of the Straw Hats adventure. Probably like 5 or 6 episodes. After that, the Marine Ford ark
No please Toei no ;;
I've been counting DAYS for the next arc. i know i'm not supposed to keep my hopes up for the animation as there's something we're all bothered about in every episode but adding 5-6 weeks to the waiting is just worse.
well, i actually really enjoy tate's style. :3 .. no wait .. i love it! the animation is amazing and the art … well, i like the art. seriously.
regarding this episode .... well .. i found it boring. -_- but i gave up complaining about the anime a long time ago. i still had lots of fun watching iva ^^'' he's so silly hihihi
For all those who cant appreciate animation and enjoy well drawn still shots I have come across your Holy Grail:
Its called a manga volume. I hear its all the rage.
^oh they know.
but it's inevitable.
Yah know… an episode with Tate is usually always followed by an argument about how it looked... that devolves into an argument about Tate's style... and finally settles into an argument about animation in general
I don't see how that applies. Not trying to be on Lion's side or anything, because he's usually plain wrong.
But asking for good art and good animation (which has happened, don't deny it) is not wrong. I don't see him asking for good art and 0 animation.
So, like… what's the problem? :wassat:
what happened to faces here :s
They're in the background. It happens in every anime ever.
Iva's pretty close, tho. They should'a been able to put eyes there.
With the space available? Not without looking hella weird and squished.
what happened to faces here :s
They've been covered by hir's hair.
With the space available? Not without looking hella weird and squished.
I agree, no eyes is better than looking like a retard.
They're in the background. It happens in every anime ever.
Yeah, gotta love how unused to animes people tend to be around here..it's like they watch One Piece and One Piece only, demanding things that japanese tv animation never does. Sometimes even animation in general.
What important in a scene like that is the movement. Take a look at this scene from The Matrix:
The faces are also very devoid of features. The lack of facial detail does not matter because in some scenes it is not the details which are important but the movements of the characters and their position in the set that denotes the significance of what is going on.
Thats how I see it.
Oda does it too. Well, that's a big surprise!