@Airflow:
I agree. We should do more. But as you say, there's all that stuff going on in Africa that sounds pretty bad. And what about all those nasty things going on in the Middle East. Actually now you come to mention it things aren't so great in South America either…or China for that matter...in fact there's quite a lot long wrong with East Asia in general. Problem is I only have so much money I can give... Wait, what about the poor people who live near me? I'll be able to donate to them, make them happy and I'll be able to see the product of me work. SUCCESS, I'll just....wait a minute what about Global Warming? Or those nasty nukes the Koreans have? Those things could affect me! And now you mention it the gutter is leaking, maybe I'd better sort that out before I start thinking about other people. I mean, I need to save myself before I save the world right?
If something wanted to be done it should be done soon, democracy generally seems to become unpopular generally. We are actually having less and less democratic countrys in world than peak year of 1995. And certain countrys have shown progress to worse. Western nations who generally appears to have most concern about humanitarian conditions and equal treatment are losing political/economic power for each passing year and I am not saying it haves to be bad thing but since 'freedom' generally is not so popular at global scale in these days we should do something more than just donating here and there because it wont help situation on those countrys in long term.
Eductation is the key but its very often denied for citizens of the 'third world country'. Therefore citizens who will lack unbiased education will be easily lured with propaganda to become tools for diffrent assocications in those countrys be it criminal organisations, political/religious movements or tribal systems furtheringly making situation in country dire.
But education is expensive, dangerous and countrys goverment might consider it threat for them and deny citizens for opportunity for education making educating citizens very difficult or even impossible. As for education I am meaning for atleast learning to read, basic maths, geography,unbiased history opening new paths for children and new directions.
Uneducated childrens are easily manipulated to certain directions, there are millions of child soldiers alone in Africa, I dont think they would ever wanted that but they never had a choice.
Airflow you asked what we could do besides donating? Well I fear there is little what we can do, our countrys should encourage giving education and opportunitys for citizens of third world what would eventually grow their nations to democracy and growth benefiting us aswell but in most cases it would be offensive diplomatic movement what would cause opposition by goverments of those country, and our countrys do not want that. That leaves we could just barge in there and do something but it would require military operation with possibility of casulties and deaths what is very serious decisions and most would not want that happen because its ugly, violent and offensive.
So we basically have to just wait and hope for the best… we send our donations, giving some random villages fresh water, medicine and tools but it wont change nothing in country in long term, has not changed yet atleast.
I can understand you're a pragmatist Shandian. But what erks me is that you're an unrealistic pragmatist who expects us to sort out everyone's problems in 5 seconds. The world is too big. People are too small. You can't win them all.
No, you are right here. We as inviduals cant do much, countrys could but we have more…major issus such as this economic crisis,swine flu (well its still topic here and there), next elections and deciding should country have or have not modern health-care.
Well if you are politician it would be political suicide to offer actions like seriosly helping third world countrys when there are more...pressing matters at hand, you would be called as lunatic, dreamer or even un-patriotic.
My opinion is that world might have problematic times ahead, we see rising of conservative religious movements in many countrys (not just islam). When country is facing unstability, poverty and unembloyment people seek to fill their lives even with zealous religion (Current Yemen). I just think we should just look farther than our own borders and do something before its too late.
So instead of whining about what's not being done how about focusing on what can be done? Instead of ignoring it and declaring the rest of the world is a shithole beyond saving.
I live in Finland, we do not even have real diversity in political partys and we dont really have any real major diffrences at partys and Finland is small country and we dont have strenght or will meddle with other countrys so rudely. I personally cant even vote, I do vote everytime I can because its my duty but all partys basically offer same things.
I see that only USA (police of the world), and leading countrys of EU could affect on this problem, however these countrys are busy with diffrent issues, Obama did promise to work with nations of Africa and help them financically and he really is holding his promise, but forgime my pessimism here but I think situation on those countrys wont be much diffrent than it is now.
Instead we are hunting down Al-Queda and Taliaban and working with our inner problems with our countrys, Taliban and Al-Qaeda are rather symptons of this problem than cause. Taliban and Al-Qaeda would have never even been created if those countrys would have decent education and stable economy and opportunitys.
It's true, they'll be less prominent in my mind. So shouldn't I care as much as I can now before I forget? Making some effort is better than making no effort at all and if we don't make some effort then how can we hope to make a greater effort when it happens again.
I got angry because when sitations like this quake at Haiti happens we care, we are sympatethic and we donate. But after week or two it dont cross anyones mind, it wont be talked at public,media or even internets. We basically live what media offers us.
So I guess I could blame media, should TV-news shows to citizens continually atrocitys, catastrophies and conditions on Africa, Myanmar or Haiti we would really start care and we would start to demand change on those sitations, we would elect politicians who would be commited to help them.
Forgetting/=Not caring.
Right, but does that really change persons actions? If person forgets then he most likely dont care that deeply either.
When did I ever say that? I was just refuting your stupid notion that nobody out there is doing anything to help anyone just because it's not in the media.
Well someone will always do and care but majority forgets unless its slammed to their faces everyday. You can go ahead and deny this but its just the way things are…
Truly none of us would have guessed this if you hadn't pointed this out.
Yet false humanitarian causes are still at date very profitable source of money. But yes I was preachy there and I doubt that persons who post here would fall to them. But we still have had even some scandals with these fake assocications, they can be very convincing.
What are you suggesting then, that we invade Burma to make sure the citizens secure supplies? Cause a regime change that will kill countless more than it would save? Sometimes you have to make the best out of a situation
Burma is controlled by its military, citizens who try uprising will get simply massacred. Its partially funded by China who we really dont want to upset. Burma's military junta will not like 'educating' their citizens. I fear that military operation with support of the natives is only solution at right now because Junta will certainly release their grip on country with just words. But I fear we cant attempt similar action such as in Iraq because there wont be weapons of mass destrucion nor oil at Burma. We can send humanitarian aid there but it will likely be confiscadet immediatly.
"I admire the amount of effort these people put in" drawls Shandian as he casually fans himself atop an ivory tower while contemplating the meaning of life.
I must be really delusional here but I think its pretty positive even that we are discussing such an important subject right now, of course we could be watching TV, playing games or doing such activities but this kind of discussions make you consider outworld and perhaps some donations can be send.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
don't pretend your original post was anything but "I'm flying in the face of public opinion, god I'm cool"
Yes it would been so much easier to post message like ''this is awful, poor Haitians' what would been forgotten to front page and I would have not got any of this shitstorm on me but topic might not be as active as it is now and people would not be reading our argument. This has been rather active topic because of this. Some of posters just flame but some offer real arguments like you. Well and then there is silent…majority who just reads posts here.
Change takes time. Dumping a ton of money at Africa's door will do shit all, sometimes we have to wait these things out for there to be a meaningful change in the future instead of doing some stupid and fucking it up for generations to come. The West did not become what it is in 5 minutes.
As I explained previosly, education and opportunitys is key for those countrys truely to change. Without education, opportunity or hope there is little options left for young citizens of those countrys, and those few options are often leading to bad results for that country and us.
We have countrys who have advanced from medieval times to booming industrial centres in mere span of decades, it can be done if the choice and opportunity is given.
As you have repeatedly asserted, I probably won't care as much, there might even be some other disaster that gets my attention. That's the way of the world, you can cry about it all you want but your attention seeking posts change nothing. A little effort will always be greater than none.
Yes and nothing will change, we continue our loves and miseriy continues on those distant continents/countrys. We occasionaly give thought or two for them but nothing changes for us unless it starts to concern us (Al-qaeda, 9/11, Taleban).
Thank you for replying, continue drowning in a sea of bitter contemplation about the terribleness of the world while people around you do something. I cant do anything (yeah real good excuse isnt it?) but because I know of all this amount of suffering at world I think its just…hypocritic to suddenly care about Haiti because of quake, yes it kills hundred thousand people but if it hasnt happened we would have never thought about it. It just makes me sick and I dont want to to pretend to be shocked and forget it about week. So what can I do? I just continue my daily life, go to work and live like usually.
I fool myself thinking that I cant do anything so I relieve myself from caring and just focus my current surroundings. Oh yes its pathetic and selfish but should there be some option or movement to really change things then I honestly assure you I would be among the first to support it.
Ms. Suave Debonair
@Ms.:
State your opinion of topic, give decently written argument and stop flaming. I assure your pathetic and elitist insults mostly just make wonder at all why you even bother to post it at all.
I am here for constructive arguments concering subjects at topic, not for your..childish attacks against anonymous poster on personal level.
@Creame-of-Chicken:
Hey, I don't have any smart-ass theories….or, rather, theories that are smart-assed...
Shandian, what would you do if your country got hit by an earthquake?
Bah, it will be unlikely because Finland and most of Scandinavia are resting most stable geologic platform, last time we had earthquake was durin 1950's on northern parts of Finland with 4.2 richter (barely notice it).
But I assume you asked what I would do if my home city would be hit by majorly destrucive earthquake (up to 7.0 richters). Well I think I would be…excited, I would most likely lose my homely possesions but if none of my relatives or friends would not seriosly get hurt (though it would be likely) I would be...yes excited. It would be terrifying and shocking but...exciting, currently I go to work, have a weekends, sport and snowboard at winters and swim at summers but I would not really complain if something drastic should happen.
I do not wish such thing to happen, nor I would want to it to happen but if it would happen inevabilitity and suddenly I think I would be excited in some levels...
Oh yeah I could just answered that I would be horrified and shocked (well I would definatly be shocked) but I guess I am a little bastard that I would wish something exciting to happen, I dont want anyone to hurt but if some material damage happens and such then I think I would almost...enjoy about it.
